Speaking of Rochester; 118; Michael Telesca

[Music ends] [Conalle]: How do you do ladies and gentlemen, I'm Barber Conalle an- this program is called 'Speaking of Rochester'. In this program we talk with, uh, various pillars of the community in- in various areas of interest. About the past of Rochester, the present, and hopefully a little about the future. We're greatly privileged today to have as our guest. The honorable Michael Telesca, the federal judge, uh, here in Rochester- a man who's been in Rochester all his life, and who, uh, has a- uh, a- an unusual job. An- that lots of people don't know very much about the federal court system. An- he's an expert. [Quiet Laugh] [Conalle]: And welcome to the program Mike, we're very happy to have you with us. [Telesca]: Thank you Barber. [Conalle]: I'm going to call you judge I'm sorry- your an old firend. [Telesca]: You're all right- [Conalle]: A- a- an-. No- no we'll stick with the formalities I think. [Telesca]: I'll call you Colonel. [Both Laughing] [Conalle]: We're both Marines, that's what he's talking about. Um. Judge Telesca was born in what's now called Marketview Heights. Uh. In the 16th ward. He, uh, was the first, uh, generation of

his family born in this country, his father was an immigrant from Italy. Uh. And, uh, his father came over and- and apparently was sold on the United States, and- and became a citizen as quickly as he could. Uh. He, uh, worked in various jobs, uh, of- of not great dimension, uh. But it- a- hard worker, and apparently a good family man, because he raised a pretty fine son, um, uh. Judge Telesca, went to the University of Rochester, and Buffalo law school. He, uh, was in the Marine Corps for a while, uh, something near and dear to my heart. And, um, uh, in the Marine Corps spent a good deal of time as a legal officer. Coming from- um, from the Marine Corps, to right back to Rochester he was in- in private practice, uh, for a number of years. But in- uh, in, 1972, w- ran for, and was elected

surrogate of Monroe County. Now that's a very interesting job an- and actually it's quite a political job to begin with. You have to run for office. [Telesca]: That's right. [Conalle]: That raises an interesting question because, as federal judge. You were appointed to office for life. [Telesca]: That's correct. [Conalle]: And so it's one of the less political judgeships around. I think we might like your point of view on that, uh. Is it a good idea to have judges run for office. [Telesca]: Doesn't hurt. I don't think it does anybody any harm, uh seeking a- public office. And after all a judgeship is a public office. To go before the people and ask for their support. Put your credentials before them. Shake hands with them, answer questions about the job, uh. It's a very- I- I- It's good for humility. [Conalle laughs] [Telesca]: I s- I saw you do it for a number of terms as you know we- ran together in a sense, and you did it so well.

I know you're not counting on this, but I'm going to take this opportunity now to say just- how much fun it was. When you were running for office, and I had the privilege- yes the privilege of working for you. [Conalle]: Well you were my campaign chariman for the first 4 elections. [Telesca]: Yeah- an- it was an absolute joy. [Conalle]: Well- [Telesca]: I learn politics, as it should be for the sake of the office, with the dedication for the job. And without- you know I'm going to say it. You were the last of what I consider the statesman politicians. [Conalle]: Well thank you, that's very nice. But let's talk about you. You- you're- [Telesca]: Yea- Ok, well, I ran for surrogate. And there was. A- a large rumor 'round town. They were wondering how I was going to run the office because, the th- the judgeship by- by its very nature, uh, permits the judge to make appointments to other attorneys, uh-. [Conalle]: -An- and for which they get statutory fees. [Telesca coughing] [Conalle]: So you're actually passing out, uh- [Telesca]: Patronage, in a sence, thats correct but I- I changed the policy there completely by, uh, giving appointments to

attorneys, regardless of what party they belonged to. I didn't know what parties- most of 'em belong to. I just went down the attorneys directory, an appointed them on the basis of- of- a th- their- their abilities and their background. So everybody participated i- in the job. [Conalle]: I suspect you also didn't make special allowances for, uh, the politically powerful when it came to assigning the, uh, the particular fees they would get. [Telesca]: No, they all- they all share the same- f- from the same fee schedule. [Conalle]: Uh-a-, that's unusual in a surrogate. [Telesca]: Well, I- It was, and I wasn't the- I wasn't everybody's friend. [Conalle]: Yes, I can understand that- [Telesca]: There were- there were certain reforms that were interposed, but the bar came to- to re- respect that, and a community came to respect it. An- the press at first was very concerned about my policies, but in due course they realized that I was going to do what I said I was going to do and de-politicize the office, an- make it a truely, uh, professional,

uh, judgeship. And then in 1981 judge Burke announced his retirement. And uh, certain people encouraged me to put in for the federal courtsh- uh- judgeship. And I did an- was ultimately appointed by- by, j- uh by President Reagan. [Conalle]: W- We'll cover that. Let's talk about the surrogates job a little more. [Telesca]: Sure. [Conalle]: Probably because it is a- a sensitive post. It is a good idea to have a- a- an elected office isn't it? [Telesca]: Yes. [Conalle]: You, uh, you deal with the problems of people, uh, at times of distress and you have to know, uh, what is important to ordinary people, don't you in that job. [Telesca]: Yes, and people are very vulnerable when they've had a loss in the family, uh. Widows, uh- widows generally, uh women outlive men, uh. Men as a general proposition don't take the time to teach their wives how to be widows. How to be self-reliant and make the financial determinations. [Conalle]: -And there are frequently minor children involved too. [Telesca]: -An- there minor children involved, and I- I frowned upon the practice where attorneys a-

Appointed themselves as, as- uh, executors of people's wills. I don't think an attorney should be the executor, and the attorney representing the will in the same instance. So I discourage that practice and went out and spoke to various groups and discouraged it. It- there was'nt illegal, but I discouraged the practice and tried to make people aware that, um, yeah, another option be better. So there were a number of things I did in- in administering estates. I initiated number of shortcuts which I see the judge Chacha was still keeping in place an- and the states moved along a lot faster, and much less, uh, costly. [Conalle]: And you cleaned up a big backlog of, of, uh, cases there, uh, over a period of time I imagine. [Telesca]: Yes, yes, brought it current. [Conalle]: -W- W- With your reforms. [Telesca]: Yep, brought it current. [Conalle]: An- and ho- you are that, you are the, uh, surrogate for 10 years. [Telesca]: That's correct. [Conalle]: In that sensitive post there's only one surrogate for Monroe County. [Telesca]: Theres only one per county with the exception of Manhattan and two are authorized in Manhattan so there are

63 surrogates in the state. [Conalle]: So you have, uh, so- all of the ?deceasement?'s estates have to come before you? [Telesca]: All of them had to come before us. [Conalle]: Mhm, and frequently I suppose there's a good deal of discretion involved, in the, handling of those estates because, uh, of the wide, uh, spread, uh- uh. Choices people could make about how their estates are to be handled. [Telesca]: That's right. [Conalle]: They make their wills, an- and you have to administer them but it's, uh, likely to be a very differing kind a- of, of estate for in some cases a very small estate, for a large family, in some cases a very large estate for a small family. And it's different isn't it? [Telesca]: And in many instances, uh, uh- y-. There are a number of heirs left, but not all of them were happy. [Conalle chuckles][Telesca]: Because the law doesn't require that you leave anything to your children, you can disinherit your children. You can't disinherit a wife, but children often times, uh, wake up one day when their dad passes away and find out that-. B- no provision for them. [Conalle chuckles][Telesca]: So the expectancy that they waited for is not there. An- they go to an attorney and say 'my dad

did'nt know what he was doing when he signed that will. He was under undue influ- [Conalle]: Either that or he was under undue influence, yes. [Telesca]: -undue influence, in which case a surrogate has to deal with those situations. [Conalle]: Well that must have been an interesting, um, uh, experience for you, uh, but, uh. But it's quite different from the federal b- bench as you, as you mention. Now you were appointed, uh, to that, uh, by i- is it by the present United States [Telesca]: Yes. [Conalle]: at the recommendation of a senator? [Telesca]: That's correct. [Conalle]: And, and, uh, it was in 1982 that you became a federal judge. You were, uh, ap- [Telesca]: '83. [Conalle]: Nominated in '8- uh, uh, uh. [Telesca]: I was nominated in, uh, oh, that's right '82 I was nominated '81, and I was sworn in May 3'rd 1982, That's correct. [Conalle]: The, uh, that raises an interesting question, because there's quite a bit of concern right now about the large backlog of nominated judges who are not being cleared by the Senate. [Telesca]: Yes, yes. [Conalle]: It has to be confirmed by the s- the appointment has to be confirmed by the senate doesnt it? [Telesca]: Absolutely, it- it's constitutional, the pres-. [Conalle]: That must have been quite an interesting experience

for you bec- [Telesca]: It was. [Conalle]: -because it was, it was something that was totally beyond your control and, and, the politics of the Senate is such that there may be very long periods of delay. [Telesca]: Well, Strom Thurmond headed up the, uh, house ju- Senate Judiciary Committee at the time. And as you know, before you ever get into the hearing. You meet with their, um, their staff people. And I did, and he gave an indication of what the areas, uh, that I was inclined to get questions on. An, then, uh, uh, ea, he was there an- and Senator, uh, Kennedy was a member of the committee. [Conalle]: Senator Mathias would have been too? [Telesca]: Mathias was and, uh, Strom Thurman had to excuse himself halfway through the hearing an- Matthias took over because he was next senior. An- the quality and texture of the questions changed dramatically. [Conalle]: I think it- Think it might of- [Telesca]: One s-. [Conalle]: B- b- but I- I'm interested, uh, judge Telesca in that- that, uh, apparently, uh, Senator Mathias who's an old friend of mine. [Telesca]: Yes. [Conalle]: Um, was pushing you to, uh, be flexible about the

interpretation of the Constitution. [Telesca]: Yes. [Conalle]: That would not be a terribly popular position to take now, particularly among, uh, among those in the Republican Party who are very strict constructionists. [Telesca]: Well the, the newspaper articles at the time labeled me a strict constructionist, uh. I'm not quite sure I know what that means. [Conalle]: Mm- [Telesca]: The constitution written in 18- in 1780's- 1770's rather, as opposed to the 1980's. [Conalle]: 1787 was when the Constitution was adopted. [Telesca]: Thats correct. Just ask Barbar an- he'll tell yeh- [Conalle]: Yeah. [Telesca]: An- that's true. An- But today, uh, uh, just never envisioned that the framers of that constitution never envisioned the technology alone that we have today. It's just mind boggling. [Conalle]: And no matter how strict a constructionist you are, in interpreting in the Constitution, something you have to do a great deal is a federal judge. [Telesca]: That's right. [Conalle]: Uh, no matter- eh, uh, there still is a great deal of personal judgment involved isn't there? [Telesca]: There sure is, there's a great deal of personal judgment. [Conalle]: And I suspect that's one of the differences between the federal

judgeship and the state judgeship too. [Telesca]: Yes. [Conalle]: That, uh, state judgeship is fairly rigidly, uh- uh, directed by the laws of the state of New York. [Telesca]: Yes. [Conalle]: But the federal judgeship, gives you a good deal more leeway doesn't it. [Telesca]: It does, you have more power as a federal judge. As an example, just in the jury trial phase. A- a federal judge has jurisdiction over both, uh, civil- and yer- and criminal cases, so we have to do both. And in both instances a judge, a federal judge can select a jury without any input from the attorneys. [Conalle]: By himself? [Telesca]: By himself. [Conalle]: Hmm. [Telesca]: Uh, I have a revised procedure. I allow the attorneys to participate, but to a limited extent. I take the position and I've tried cases as you have. I take the position that the judge, federal judge's really the only one in the courtroom that's interested in a fair and impartial jury. I mean if- if the prosecutors had his way he'd love to have 12 people on that jury that are guaranteed to convict, and the defense would have- like to have, the same make up on the other side. So, I- I

I feel it's important to- in venire, To let the jurors know, who feel that their- [Conalle]: Venire is the choice of a Jury. [Telesca]: Right, selection of the jury, and that they're not there to be, uh, mollified if you will, an- an- and, and, an- abuse with intrusive questions about what newspapers they read, what church they go to. That's irrelevant. I want to know, just what the Constitution requires them to be, and that is will they be fair and impartial jurors. Of the- do they know anything about this case? Do they have a strong feeling about a case of this type? And we move the case along giving full deference to the jury. Consequently I have no problem having people sit on jury trials. We don't take to- [Conalle]: And probbably you chose a jury in about a- a 10'th of the time it takes to choose a jury where the lawyers are going through the process of-. [Telesca]: Precisely. [Conalle]: Venire as its called. [Telesca]: Yeah, uh, uh- well the lawyers don't like the process, the lawyers would like to have more control over the selection process. The federal court allows a judge to do all the questioning, and I say I do 90 percent of it, and allow the attorneys to partake in it. But

typically in the civil case. We select an 8 person jury and it will take me about an hour- to an hour and a half, and then we start the trial. And- [Conalle]: Uh- wh. We'll in the leeway. A- a federal judge gets in choosing a- a jury, also aren't quite a few federal cases tried without a jury? [Telesca]: Yes, quite a few are tried without a jury. It's only recently in 1990, uh, that, uh, title 7 has been amended. Title 7, uh, the sex, and age discrimination, cases. Uh, wer- that was amended to allow for a jury trial in those cases, up until that point, it was all non-jury. And of course people can waive a jury, and they do quite often in federal court, and prefer to go just before a judge. 'Cause a decision will come out, uh, fairly fast in any event. [Conalle]: Yes an- and, uh, of course a lot depends on the reputation of the judge too. [Telesca]: That's true. [Conalle]: But there aren't a great many federal judges. And so the idea of Judge hopping, picking your own judge is not, uh, really terribly available is it? [Telesca]: No, case assignments

come off of a wheel at random. I have no idea at this moment what case is bein- assigned to me, uh. On the system that we have it as a blind random, uh, process. Since I've taken senior status I limit. I don't take a certain number of cases, I don't take prisoner cases anymore. [Conalle]: Well le- let's understand that, too, Judge Telesca. The, uh, in fact a- for since 19- fr- from 1989 to 1995. [Telesca]: Yes. [Conalle]: You were the chief judge- [Telesca]: Thats correct. [Conalle]: -of the 17 county area here in western New York. [Telesca]: That's right. [Conalle]: Uh, that- that meant that you had administrative responsibilities- [Telesca]: Yes. [Conalle]: -in addition to your, your trial responsibilities. [Telesca]: That's correct. [Conalle]: And, uh, and, uh, then you, you, uh, took a reduced status, of some sort- or is that an automatic? [Telesca]: The law provides that a federal judge, who has attained the age of 65 and who has served at least a- 15 years. A combination of 65, and 15, the rule of 80. Can then take senior status, which allows that judge- or permits the judge

to remain on as a federal judge. Work, uh, take the cases that he or she feels, he can handle. In other words, take a reduced caseload. I'm taking about a 2/3'rds to 3- well, little better than 3/4 caseload. [Conalle]: But you're still trying the same kind of cases you did before- [Telesca]: Oh, yes. All the same. [Conalle]: -and preforming exactly as a full time judge would be performing- [Telesca]: Absolutely [Conalle]: -when you're in court. [Telesca]: People will say, 'well how does it feel to be retired?' Well, I don't know, I'm not retired. I just take a reduced caseload, an- I'm taking some time off in the winter. But apart from that I work every day, and put in the same time and effort that I have in the past. [Conalle]: And, uh. And also you don't have- got a pension do you? [Telesca]: No. [Conalle]: When you're appointed, you're appointed for life. [Telesca]: Appointed for life. [Conalle]: So you receive your full pay, as long as you're alive. [Telesca]: As long as your alive. [Conalle]: Uh, whether you are active, or able to appear in court, or not is that correct? [Telesca]: That's right. [Conalle]: Now that's another thing to reduce the political nature of the job isn't it? [Telesca]: That's right you- you just do not have any political pressures at all to deal

with, uh. You don't have to worry about running again. [Conalle]: How many federal judges do we have in Western New York? [Telesca]: In western New York, we have, uh, 2 actives, and 2 seniors in Buffalo and you have 2 actors- actives and 1 senior in Rochester. So there's a total of 7 judges in the western district a New York. When I came on, I took Judge Burke's place, and there were total of 3 judges in the western New York. [Conalle]: You know when you think of the state court systemk, and the levels there, starting with uh, justice of the peace, and going to county cour- county courts of various sorts, and then appeals courts, uh. You realize we have a great many more state judges, than we have federal judges. [Telesca]: Oh, many more. [Conalle]: What about the burden, how can you handle the burden of cases. At a time when Congress seems to be making everything a federal offense nowadays, and, uh, there must be a- a growing caseload for the federal courts. [Telesca]: There is a growing caseload, but there again. The distinction between federal court, and state court is that we have a great, a- uh,

a control over the case management. Each case. Uh, as a case comes in, within 120 days after the case is filed a scheduling order is put on- is- a issued by the judge. I- in- in states the limits as to when certain things have to be done, and then sets a trial date. [Conalle]: The Constitution says the right of habeas corpus shall not be, uh, infringed. Does that mean you get a lot of habeas corpus cases? [Telesca]: Lot of habeas corpus cases. [Conalle]: Because that's a constitutional issue isn't it? [Telesca]: Absolutely. [Conalle]: Although they can go to other courts, uh. [Telesca]: But it's, it's a, there's a federal Hevia statute, and it causes a tension between federal court, and the state courts. Because essentially, after a criminal has been found guilty, and affirmed all the way up to the Court of Appeals. He then invariably files a federal habeas statute and says 'Judge, I didn't have a fair trial in state court, my constitutional rights were-' [Conalle]: Uh, huh. [Telesca]: '-were impinged upon and we have to review the whole trial again.' [Conalle]: Is there a fairly even break between civil, and criminal cases in the federal court? [Telesca]: More, more civil than criminal. But criminal takes all the t-

[Conalle]: Civil cases cover the whole gamut don't they? [Telesca]: I a- [Conalle]: It's not a court of general jurisdiction as such the thing is da- is, is defined. But you have a tremendous range, [Telesca]: Take everyth- [Conalle]: Patent infringement cases anti-trust cases. [Telesca]: Yes, yes. [Conalle]: Citizenship cases I suppose? [Telesca]: Tax cases. [Conalle]: Tax cases. [Telesca]: Immigration cases. [Conalle]: Appeals from bankruptcy court? [Telesca]: Bankruptcy court. [Conalle]: So you have a- a tremendous range in the administration of justice that is your responsibility. [Telesca]: Yes, yes, and many cases, uh, require constitutional interpretation. Those constitutional cases that you were- refered to earlier. Get a fair amount of, free speech cases, an- and First Amendment cases on, uh, uh. Religious cases. [Conalle]: Do you like the job? [Telesca]: I love it. [Conalle]: Did you always want to be a lawyer? [Telesca]: I alway- well, I- I didn't realize that I always did I- in high school, I- I did very well in science courses and, uh, I- I set my goal on be- becoming an optical

engineer, an optics major at the University of Rochester. [Conalle]: Oh, a logical thing to do here at Rochester were, Eastman Kodak depends so on optics. [Telesca]: Right, [Telesca]: Right, but my- uh, my high school teacher, uh, in- a- high- um, history teacher. Mrs. ?Werjust? really was, uh, an inspiration to me, and she- [Conalle]: She saw through you- [Telesca]: Yeah. [Conalle]: -she saw you had a sense of community. [Telesca]: Yeah. And that I loved American history, in uh, as you do. And, uh, she said keep your eye open when you go to college, and take some good history courses. Try taking some courses from Dr. May, and I- did do that, and Dr. May is just an inspiring history teacher. And I took an American History course from Dr. Wade as well, an- and I knew that I couldn't spend my life, uh, grinding lenses, or designing lenses, or whatever. Th- The constitution. an- history- in American history and all th- [Conalle]: You haven't regretted it I take it? [Telesca]: Not at all, not at all. [Conalle]: You show every sign of- of- of relishing the, uh, the, uh- [Telesca]: I sure do. [Conalle]: -job you have. [Telesca]: My father oddly enough to- [Conalle]: Your importance to the community is- is- uh- is almost

unique as a federal judge. [Telesca]: It is, w- we take a very low profile stance. [Conalle]: Well you don't have to take a high profile stance, theres no politics involved. [Telesca]: But its, well it's also safer because lot of people don't like the things that we do, an- [Conalle Laughs][Telesca]: I get threats on your life. [Conalle]: Well that's a- w- what you have to make decisions, you're bound to offend some people. I'm sure of that. [Telesca]: So we don't- as a rule, uh, carry vanity plates on our- our automobiles [Conalle Laughs][Telesca]: -and we try not to have any distinguishing features. But I- I- I love the job. I- I don't place any limitations on it, it's a wonderful job. [Conalle]: Is- [Telesca]: Its a privilege. [Conalle]: -the trend toward, uh, making things federal offenses, and federal responsibilities, going eventually to swap th- the f-, uh, the federal courts. [Telesca]: Well, i- uh- y- in a sense that it will, because what Congress did in 1984 an- of the Crime Control Act imposed upon federal courts. The federal sentencing guidelines, sentencing used to be a fairly simple thing, you looked at the person's background pre-sentence investigation, and

weighed a number of objective and subjective factors and y- you came up with a sentence. You had some idea of what to do. Now it is- it's very mechanistic and- [Conalle]: There are lots of mandatory sentences in other words? [Telesca]: Absolutely, mandatory sentence- and even in those areas where ther- don't prescribe a mandatory sentence, y- you- you're issued, uh, a sentencing guideline- an area, uh. That you have to sentence pretty much within that that area, which is much- much- more enhanced than it has been in the past. [Conalle]: This is a terrible problem. The issue of mandatory sentence'es. [Telesca]: Yes it is. [Conalle]: Because lots of times you have to impose sentences you don't approve of. [Telesca]: Absolutely. [Conalle]: Uh, u- uh,using your own common sense. You think, uh, this is not a fair sentence. [Telesca]: Well you can't take into consideration the usual characteristics that you could in the past. The person's family circumstances, his health or his family's health, his status in the community, any special problems that he may have, uh. [Conalle]: mhm. [Telesca]: Y- you just set those aside and you don't sentence the person anymore, you're sentence for the crime. It's a very mechanistic. [Conalle]: mhm.

[Telesca]: Congress wants it this way, and we're sworn to uphold Congress- congressional mandates, as you know you say- [Conalle]: The separation of powers that's- that's absolutely right. [Telesca]: Absolutely- absolutely. [Conalle]: You don't feel that, uh, that the federal courts are unduly beleaguered at this point? [Telesca]: Well they have enough to do, but you always make room find time to do it You- you have to learn how to-. [Conalle]: I think you do, but I'm not sure all federal judges do, one of the downsides of being, uh, appointed for life is that you don't- you aren't held to a very high standard performance. [Telesca]: Well there's a lot of peer pressure. [Conalle]: Peer pressure? [Telesca]: There is a lot of peer pressure. [Conalle]: In other words- In other words- you hear all the way from the Supreme Court, uh. If you're, uh, not behaving properly? [Telesca]: You can here all the way from- very unlikely from the Supreme Court, but it's bad enough that you hear from your chief judge in the District, or the chief judge in the circuit. [Conalle]: mhm. [Telesca]: And it's something you don't want to do. [Conalle]: You are subject to impeachment of course, if you- [Telesca]: Subject to impeach- [Conalle]: If you actually go beyond the bounds of the proper behavior. [Telesca]: That's correct, that's correct. No, we're monitored we're not- we're not loose

cannons as such. Were monitored, an- were talked to, uh, and a- a- very nice way but, uh, you know what's right and what's wrong. And if your caseload gets a little slow you're talked to there. [Conalle]: Do we have a lot of vacancies now? In, uh, the court system? [Telesca]: I'm not quite sure, uh, depending on which newspaper article you read, I'm sure there are vacancies, and they are not moving along as fast as they should. I teach new federal judges from the federal judicial center. I'm appointed, and I go out and uh, for a week, uh, give a cram course- a- a jumpstart court- to- to newly appointed federal judges, and they just haven't been that many being appointed. We haven't had that many, uh. Classes, they have- but they're starting to come through a little faster now, an- I understand that Judge Toler from, uh, the northern district of New York has been appointed to the second circuit. That just was affirmed- [Conalle]: Circuit Court of Appeals? [Telesca]: Circuit Court of Appeals, but that creates a d- a bit of a vacancy in the northern district. [Conalle]: Uh, uh, yes. [Telesca]: -very busy district. [Conalle]: Uh-huh. [Telesca]: It gives a federal judge a lot

of work. Our cases from prisoners in state prisons. [Conalle]: M-hm. [Telesca]: They havea right under the Constitution, to bring an action in federal court. [Conalle]: And you have an obligation to hear it within a certain period of time. [Telesca]: Absolutely. [Conalle]: Yes. [Telesca]: And he has the right to appear pro se, and we try to get attorneys to rep- [Conalle]: Pro-se you mean he represents himself-. [Telesca]: That's correct. [Conalle]: -and he may not understand the law very well, you have to do a lot of explaining to him. [Telesca]: Absolutely, but he's entitled to a trial. [Conalle]: Sure. [Telesca]: Constitution reaches inside th- inside the prison walls. [Conalle]: It should- it should. [Telesca]: It does. [Conalle]: The Constitution is there for the protection of people, frequently who are- not all- all the best citizens- [Telesca]: That's right. [Conalle]: -but still are entitled to their rights as citizens. [Telesca]: An- thats- thats the genius and beauty of our Constitution. I'll reach inside of a prison wall. [Conalle]: Yeah. [Telesca]: an- I think it's great. [Conalle]: Well I think, uh, people have great respect for you Judge Telesca, you have the reputation of not only being fair, but of being a reformer who moves things along and isn't satisfied with the status quo, uh.

It's- it's great that you can serve here in the community where you grew up. Where people, uh, have an instinctive confidence in you because they've known you for a long time. And, uh, I'm particularly grateful for your being on my program, uh, uh, to give people a sense of what it's like to be a federal judge, um, uh. We wish you very- we wish you well, and don't be in too great a hurry to accept a further reduction in your workload. [Telesca]: No, I won't. [Conalle]: As long as you're there, we'll feel that things are in good hands. [Telesca]: It's my privilege. [Conalle]: L- ladies and gentlemen, our guest today as as been federal judge Michael Telesca of Rochester, uh, uh, a- former, uh, chief judge of the- of the western New York area. Now partially retired, but still very active as a member of the bench, um. This is Barbar Conalle, The program is 'Speaking of Rochester' thank you for being with us. [Pop insturmental fades in] [Pop insturmental ends] [Announcer]: If you'd like a copy of this program send $19.95 to WXXI.

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