Speaking of Rochester; 205; Erie Canal Edward P. Curtis

[Host]:How you do ladies and gentlemen? This program is Speaking of Rochester and I'm Barber Conable. In this program we uh explore our remarkable city uh, See why it's here, ah go into its history and look a little into the future as well. ah Today we have as our guest Ted Curtis. Ted is the scion of an old old family here in Rochester. A matter of fact his great great grandfather came here in 1817. He's a distinguished family. His father was one of the top men of Kodak. ah He was an ace in World War One, ah he was a chief of staff for instance of the Strategic Air Force in World War Two, and so, Ted's a man that a lot has been expected of, and he's had many many jobs here in the city. Always dedicated to the interest of the city, and um now involved in the, the Corn Hill navigation as chairman of that. It's ah ah an organization that ah that operates on the waterways here of Rochester. Rochester's here because of the water. The Eri the

Genesee River, ah the Erie canal, the Rochester port and the Lake Ontario. Ah it probably wouldn't be here at all if it weren't for these water resources and that's what we're going to explore today. Ted, welcome to the program. We're happy to have ya. [Guest]: Barber it's very good to have you on board as we, [Host]: On board [Guest]: on board, we'll soon be on board. Ah we're we're standing in front of a boat called the Sam Patch. Now who was Sam Patch? [Guest]: oh Barber everybody knows who Sam Patch is. Sam is the famous gentleman, the "jersey jumper," who in 1829 [Host]: Way back then! [Ted]Way back then, [Host]when the serious work of development was going on in Rochester [Ted]: Exactly so. [Host]: now we think of daredevils as a as a way of of avoiding the boredom of modern life. [Ted]: Oh no, no no this is this is part of the act because 1829 was only 4 years after the canal had opened. [Host]: Yes [Ted]: and Rochester had become you recall the first boom town on the frontier, the Young Lion of the West. That was us. Anyway, Sam Patch, the "Jersey Jumper," a made a living out of jumping off high places and

big bodies of water. [Host]: Not a very good living. [Ted laughs]: Oh well, he was doing a lot better than working the woolen mill in, uh, Pawtucket, Rhode Island like he used to. [Host]: He made a dying of it here in Rochester. He'd gone over the Niagara Falls a couple of times. [Ted]: He'd gone over Niagara Falls and survived. [Host]: and survived. [Ted]: survived. And he was on his way back and they said, "Why don't ya stop in Rochester and jump the High Falls of Genesee?" And he said, "Sure I will." And he came here with his pet bear. You remember? [Host]: Yes. [Ted]: in early November. [Host]: I don't think the bear enjoyed the jump. [Ted]: Uh, bear only did one jump. [Host] I see. [Ted]: But Sam unfortunately did, too. And Friday, November 6th ah 1829 Sam and the bear jumped. I thought they went hand and paw but the historian tells me he pushed the bear and jumped afterwards. [Host]: And a couple of months later he was found in the ice. [Ted]: Oh no, they both came up on that one. [Host]: Oh. Oh, I see. [Ted]: But Sam was unhappy because there wasn't enough of a crowd. His advance people hadn't done a good enough job job. So, he said, "I'll do it again next week." Friday, November 13th, 1829. [Host]: Oh, Friday the 13th. [Ted]: Friday the 13th. And it was a cold and blustery day and some say Sam had been drinkin. And he and he had a platform built 25 feet above the falls. It was a hundred and twenty feet straight

down. And Sam didn't [Host]: it was quite a step. [Ted]: It was a big step. One giant step for mankind. [Host]: Yeah. [Ted]: But uh he went off sort of tumbling instead of straight down like he used to do and hit with a smack and disappeared. Didn't come back up. But everybody said "Oh Sam, you know he's smart. He's swum back under the falls or he's gone downstream and we'll see him again." And all that winter across frontier.Yeah we saw Sam in Buffalo, we saw Sam in Cleveland [Host]: Or he we went all the way down to China. [Ted]: All the way down to China. But the following St. Patrick's Day here's a farmer watering his horses down ?slot?. It had been a bad winter. A lot of ice and here comes a great big piece of ice with Sam stuck right in the middle of it. [Host]: Well I think we're probably spending more time on Sam than on ?. [Guest]: This is true. This is true. [Host]: But he was, he was a colorful step. [Guest]: He was a colorful step and he belongs to the river and that's why we named the boat after him. [Host]: That's right. He belongs to the river permanently. [Ted]: Quite right. [Host]: Well you're, you're gonna have another boat here in a little while we hope [Ted]: Yea, we are.[Host]: named after Mary Jemison, the white woman of the Genesee. [Ted]: the white woman of the Genesee. [Host]: that's right.

Yes now we we we, you know, we can stand all morning talking about Sam Patch and Mary Jemison. [Ted]: Well let's get aboard and Let's see ah some of the area here from the point of view of why water is so important to Rochester. [Ted]: Barber I'd be delighted and it's one of the main reasons and you'll see it on this 1 that we did this is because Rochester looks totally different from the river. [Host]: Are you the still still the head of the Convention Bureau, Ted? [Ted]: No no no no no. Ah [Host]: But you did for a long time. [Ted]: I did that for 3 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Host]: Yes, yes; you were in the CIA. [Ted]: I was in the CIA. [Host]: You graduated from Williams College. [Guest]: Yeah. [Ted]: I was city manager, briefly. [Host]: You were 1 of the 1 of the people 1 of the managers at Eastman Kodak and ah in charge of Federal Affairs and so forth. [Ted]: God bless you. Yeah. [Host]: So you've done a lot of things here. [Ted]: And don't forget I was registered foreign agent for the province of Ontario for a while. [Host]: Oh my.[Laughter] [Laughter][Ted]: All right well let's go for it. Here we go.[Pause to board][Host]: Ted we've left the Corn Hill Landing going up on the Genesee River one of the few north flowing rivers [Host]: in the United States. [Ted]:We try 'n tell our customers, Barber, there's only 2 great rivers of the world that flow north the Nile and the Genesee.[Host]: Yes, and right here is an area

where there's been a lot of redevelopment in Rochester. Ah this is the Corn Hill area right near the Corn Hill Landing. And uh. [Ted]: Indeed, now you'll notice that ugly wall over there.[Host]:Yes. It's not ugly; it's a little old.[Ted]:Well, it's pretty ugly too. The latest development down here they're gonna cut that wall down to the height of our dock and have docking potential all they way up to oh right about here.[Host]: So Some kind of a marina here? [Ted]: Uh not a marina just a good wall where you can moor your boat if you're transient a a a boater, they'll be a a There'll be electric hooks up and water and pump out facilities. Uh no gas. But for the greatly increased traffic we expect to happen on the Erie Canal. If you want to come down and spend the night in Rochester Rochester-- a you can't do it now cause ?unintelligible? but you will be able to do it then. [Host]: Uh uh. [Ted]: And in that parking lot we just came out of, Mark ?4? is putting up 138 units of

luxury housing [Host]: Oh [Ted]: uh town houses, apartments... a it's going to be very attractive. [Host]: Well now were moving up toward the University of Rochester, up the up the Genesee River.[Ted]: Up the bend [Ted]: There. yeah. [Host]: This area used to flood a lot. [Ted]: Oh indeed! [Laughter] [Host]: Until, until, until the Mount Morris Dam was built in the 1930s to control the uh the spring floods. This ?presents? that used to [Ted]: That wall [Host]: do a lot of damage here in Rochester [Ted]: That wall may be ugly, but it's useful. [Host]: It's useful. Yes, that's right. [Ted]:And on the end of that ?Exchange Boulevard? over there is about a foot and a half lower than the river so you got have a wall -one for another. [Host]: Well the river level can be controlled. [Ted]: It can be controlled [Host]: it's controlled up river and it's controlled some down river by dams. [Ted]: uh Mount Morris, uh Court Street, Central Avenue yeah, but Mount Morris you're right, that is the key structure of the entire region. And it saves us, yeah, you've seen that book that uh uh the city historian did and let me help her a little bit uh Runnin' Crazy. And that picture of the frontage piece is the flood of 1865 about to take out the Andrews Street Bridge. [Host]: Oh right. [Ted]: So

we had we had incredible floods. [Host]: I remember the first resident here, Ebeneezer Allen [Ted]: Yes! the Allen Family. [Host]: was a owned a hundred acre tract which later became the center of the city Rochester and in return he had to build a grist mill and a saw mill. [Guest]: and a saw mill. Right. [Host]: that's because water water power was terribly important at the outset of the city Rochester [Ted]: Sure! It is a little premature. He got, he, he came here when there were only something like 24 people ah west of the Genesee. He was 20 years before his time and the result was he did not succeed. He'd had to deed the property back and ultimately came into the hands of Nathaniel Rochester. Who was a Developer. [Ted]: That's right. And by ah 1820, Ebeneezer was here in 1790 to '92, by 1820, ah, the core of the city of Rochester was a burgeoning and bustling place. [Ted]: Sure, my ancestor Everard Packer arrived in 1817 out of Pittsfield, first printer first, ah, But he was a banker, publisher, a lot of other things. But you're right, by 1820 it was

starting to move. But you remember what really made it the boomtown was the opening of the Canal. Canal. [Host]: Erie Canal in 1825. [Ted]: It, of course, crosses the Genesee River. [Host] It does indeed. [Ted]: And one of the sources of canal water is the Genesee River and it's all the way down to Palmyra at least is the Genesee River and, of course, the ah in those days it crossed the river on what is now the Broad Street Bridge. [Host]: And now, now why was the the Erie Canal so important to the growth of Rochester? [Ted]: Well, because of it's called the conjunction of the two, the river and the canal. Ah, what happened, Barber, you remember over the Genesee Valley, You feel all the great wheat granaries of early America. [Host]: It was [Ted]:Finest wheat in the world. [Host]:The Land of milk and honey.[Ted]:Land of milk 'n honey. ?Manville-Scottsville?All the way down [Host]: through there. [Ted]: ?Absolutely? Now the farmers would, you know, they'd, they'd harvest their wheat, they'd put it on rafts, they'd float it down river river a to the mills at a at a The High Falls. There it would be ground into very high-quality flour. But then you had to put the flour, the barrel of flour

flour on a wagon with a pair of oxen and take take you six weeks to get 80 barrels to Albany and it would cost you about 60, 70 bucks a barrel [laughs] to shove that along when [indistinct][Host]: So you couldn't compete. [Ted]: The week after the Canal opened in 1825, 10,000 barrels of flour flour went east to Albany; it got there in 8 days and it went for 6 bucks a barrel. a barrel. [Host]: It made a big difference. And there was an economic explosion, aw, in town and it really because, you know, you know in those days Canandaigua and Batavia and Geneva and, for all I know, even Ale- Alexander were flourishing communities and Rochester a little ?henpeck? along the river but not for long, but not for long. [Host]: Well, Well. Ah I think it's interesting that this area went from a howling wilderness [Ted]: Ya. [Host]: about 1800 [Ted]: Ya. [Host]: to a land of milk and honey, milk and honey in 30 years. [Ted]: In 30 years. [Host]: And that was largely the result of the canal, was it not? [Ted]: ?You? [Host]: That was the single most important factor, yeah. [Ted]: The resident agent of the Holland Land Company, which owned three and a half

million acres to the west of here [Host]: Sure. [Ted]: was Joseph Ellicott and he had a very very strong hand in lobbying the canal [Host]: Ah, indeed. [Ted]: Indeed, he wanted the canal to cross his company's lands, so they could sell it. [Host laughs]. [Ted]: Now there was another factor here and that was the, ah, the Sullivan Expedition [Host]:Yep. [Ted]: A bunch of New Englanders who'd come through here burning it down during the Revolution and they'd seen magnificent corn, some of them said, I think with a little hyperbole [Host]: Yeah. [Ted]:16 to 18 feet tall. Oh no! And here were people who worked in scrabbling a living out of a rock pile in New England they saw this and they said, Boy when that land gets available, that's for me! [Host]:Yeah yeah. [Ted]: So the whole area just exploded. [Host]:It really did. [Ted]: into it into a development that, of course, it's a question of where the Canal was going to run there was more politicking and lobbying and what-not on that [Host] Originally, it was going to go out into Lake Ontario and Oswego and come back. [Ted]: Yeah. The a ah the 6-mile point up a near Niagara and cross the

Niagara escarpment there that would have Rochester out. We'd still would have been a a flyspeck on the [Host]: Genesee River. [Ted]: So Joseph Ellicott of the Holland Land Company had something to do with helping Rochester along. So even though he didn't own any land here. Is he the man for whom Ellicotville is is named? [Host]: Yes that's right [Ted]:Very good [Host]: And what Ellicot Square up in Buffalo. [Ted]: Ellicot Way, Ellicot Way, Ellicot Avenues news around. [Laughter] [Ted]:He was a [Host]: he was the boy [Ted]: a rough and grumpy old fellow fellow who sold 3 and a half million acres of land that you know about right here. [Host]:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. About. [Ted]:Yeah. Yeah. [Host]:All right, now we're we're passing the area of the University of Rochester now. [Ted]: Ju- ju- just on our right where that water tower is one of those buildings there is the original headquarters of the Mobil Oil Company. [Host] Uh uh, oh of the a [Ted]: You remember [Host] you remember what ever [Ted]: That was that was that was part of the Rockefeller empire. Ah it was then, but it was started in Rochester by Everest Clements. [Host]: It was Standard Oil of New York's Soconey. [Host]:Soconey. [Ted]:Yeah, but before that it was called Vacuum Oil.[Host]: Ah ha, Soconey bought 'em out Soconey bought them out.[Host] It started here. [Ted]:Soconey Vacuum then it became Soconey Mobil and then finally

[Host]: Mobil [Ted]:And then finally it had to be split out from the Oil Trust because [Host]: That's right yeah. [Ted]: of a Teddy Roosevelt's Monopoly [Ted]: The monopoly: the break up, break up the Rockefellers.[Host]: Absolutely, yes. [Ted]:Those are fun, but that's where it was. [Host]: How deep is the river here Ted? Aw. It varies from probably 15 20 25 feet. Anywhere [Host]: It's fairly deep then. How deep is the Canal? [Ted]:The canal by by law, by custom, by edict, aw is minimum 10 feet deep. Most of the time. Yeah. [Host]: Minimum 10 feet. [Ted]:Yeah. It started out at 4 feet. [Ted]: 40 feet wide and 4 feet deep just had scows going up and down it carrying agricultural products. Send them and If you fell overboard all you do is stand up [Host]: Yep.[Laughs] [Ted]: And then you were fine and then it was 70 feet wide and 7 feet deep. deep. Now it's been 200 feet wide and 10 feet deep. [Host]:Now why do we still have the Canal. It isn't really a major avenue of commerce now. [Ted]:Thank God a lot of people were asking that question a 10 to 15 years ago. Oh, I think you know why don't we fill this stupid thing in because it's just costing us money. Aw, a and then all of a sudden

sudden starting about oh 15 years ago, Barber, and the guy who led the charge was was dear old Peter Whyles whom you remember well [Host]: Yes. [Laughs] [Ted]: The skipper from Skeneatlas liked navigation and he was the guy who really got started using the Canal for tourism, for recreation and emphasized the natural beauty of it. Now Now I I've I've [Host]: And there are parks along it. [Ted]: And there are parks along it and all of a sudden [Host]: Bike tracks? [Ted]: Bike tracks bike tracks are fine.[Host]: Yeah.[Ted]: And ah the fact that the Thruway Authority took over from the state department of transportation in 19 '92 '93. Made a huge difference. It was always a poor relation with the state department of transportation. Too they put some real money in it; taken some real interest in it And they are developing now 8 major harbors along the canal of which Rochester's one. [Host] So, it'll be a water resource in recreational terms [Ted]: In recreational terms,in tourist terms tourism terms. [Host]: Yes.

Yeah. [Ted]: In historical terms. We've done a lot of canaling in Europe: in England and France and Holland. Aw I think a little more history there pehaps [Host]: Great Blue Heron sitting on a log. [Ted]: Well now. So we gotta digress. So we bring probably a thousand school kids a year up river, [Host]: I'll bet. [Ted]: City school kids get to travel free on the Sam Patch but as we get to this point we tell 'em, "Look there" and there is the heron. Now the most important thing you're going to see today is that great blue heron. On the radio [Host]:because it's no longer the sewer it used to be.[Ted]: Ah ah! When you see the great blue heron, you know that the heron heron is back because the fish are back, the fish are back because the river's running clean again and that's not an open sewer like it was for 80 years. [Host]: Kodak had a good deal to do with cleaning up the lower part of the river what about the rest of it? [Ted]:The Monroe County Pure Waters and the State and the Feds a put a If if you if you total it all up, including what Kodak and Bausch & Lomb and RG&E put in you're talking well over a billion dollars to clean up the Genesee River [Host]: To clean up the Genesee River [Ted]:and its tributaries. It

place of great natural pollution even before whites were here because a lot of vegetation in this water [Ted]: Yep, yep. [Host]: moving out into into Lake Ontario.[Ted]: Well you get [Host]: But it but it. But it it became a matter of man's pollution that very quickly after that the surge in population growth here. [Ted]: Well you notice here it's not the beautiful Blue Danube [Host]:No it's not. [Ted]: want to see it's a little money [Host]: Neither is the beautiful blue Danube that. [Ted]:So it's not it's not clear that it is clean. And it's just good old Genessee Valley silt coming down. [Host]: Yeah, yeah. [Ted]: So so the old the old vegetable matter, old vegetable matter. Well these. But you still there [Ted]: But you still get trees in the spring after a hard winter. [Host]: That's an awful lot of debris that comes down. [Ted]: We can see the beautiful buildings of the University of Rochester on our left. [Host]: left over here as we go up the river [Ted]: Yeah. [Host]: from the Corn Hill Landing. Of course, a great institution here for a Rochester and a beautiful place.[Ted]: [indistinct] Campus built- what? 60 years ago now, 1926, I think I was. [Host]: Well, [Ted]: 70 years ago now.[Host]: It's It's a long standing in any event. [Ted]: Well, of course here on this side it's almost equally

equally fascinating. This is This is where all the old Southbound railroads ran,[Host]:oh oh. [Ted]: the Erie-Lackawana and whatnot [Host]: They had a tendency to build railroads along water.[Ted]: Yeah. They were cheaper that way. [Ted]:Yeah which is why the east bank of the Hudson was so so that it's it's solid railroads all the way. When they abandoned the railroads aw shortly before the War and the city just let this grow up so there are it's almost virgin forest right at the middle of the City of Rochester [Host]:there's some good housing. [Ted]: a lot of housing that went in there. [Host]:Is there any expectation that use will be made [Ted]: Yes, yes. [Host]: of that in due course? [Host]:For housing probably? [Ted]: more housing and for a linear park along here. [Ted]: What's over on this side?[Host]: No reason why it shouldn't be a beautiful addition to the City. [Ted]: It's a magnificent thing [Host]:Developed. [Ted]: Sure, sure. In terms of all the revitalization of city neighborhoods My hunch is the next major push you're gonna see will be the area between the Plymouth Avenue and the River river. Right over here all the way back up to to Brooks Avenue over there. [Host]:Now we're approaching a park up here in a little ways and a [Ted]: In a little ways when we get under the Elmwood Avenue Bridge

[Host]: Elmwood Avenue Bridge and then tell us a little about the park itself. [Host]:Oh it's one of the Olmstead Parks, isn't it? [Ted]: An Olmstead Park and all of that park. and you would be interested to know that Frederick Law Olmstead was a landscape designer of some of some ah importance in the United States [Ted]: Oh. Huge importance. [Host]:and he can, for instance,he he designed the west side of the Capitol at Washington. [Ted]: I I did not know that! [Host]: Yes he he did he did Central Park in New York City. [Ted]: I knew he did Central Park in New York City, [Host]: But he also came here to Rochester [Ted]: and did some important [Host]:He did 3 parks: Seneca,and Maplewood and Genesee Genesee Valley. [Ted]: And Genesee Valley, I think was his favorite park. Ah and the ah the ah The interesting thing there's a there's a conference coming up here later on this month. The National Association of Homes and Parks is meeting here in Rochester. [Host]: He is so famous famous that they have a National Association of Frederick Law Olmstead Parks. [Ted]:They do indeed. [Host]: And then they he he went right across the country and he did quite a lot of the West Coast. Ah and we're taking on the Sam Patch particularly to show off Genesee Valley Park and how that went. And ah Jerger Cuningham over at Eastman House who is the boss gal in this state. Put on, we got it back there a

marvelous little pathway. Ah on the Olmstead Parks of Rochester. And my favorite picture in that tablet. You'll see it tell us when we get out there. Is a picture of a flock of sheep in Genesee Valley Park. [Ted]: Ah ha. [Host]: You remember Olmstead [indistinct] he said he wanted to have the the grass cut. [Ted]:He wanted to get the grass cut. And the sheep are the best way to do it back in those days. [Ted]: Well, when was this? [Host]: Well it was 1880 when he put 'em in. [Ted]: My understanding now this is storytelling ah, Barber, this is not history. My understanding is that Monroe County had a couple of shepherds on the pay roll as late as 1940. And a flock of sheep to go with it. [Host]: But when 1940 came, the War came and those shepherds got drafted probably. Draft of the shepherd and ate the sheep. [Ted]: and ate the sheep. [Host]: And and now they have to mow it. By God, now they've gotta mow it, [Ted]: Yes. [Host]: but still a great story.[Laughter] And the a [Ted]: Well, we'll see as far as we get up there. But there's a great story about a a how how unhappy everybody was when they proposed to put the canal through the Park. [Host]: Why? [Ted]: Because you remember Olmstead [Host]: In a way it would damage damage the outline of the Park. [Ted]:Yeah and Olmstead

put the park in 1880 and it was 30 years later. [Host]: Yeah. [Ted]: That they came along with the Canal and everybody said you [indistinct][Host]: You came along with the canal, you gotta explain that. because you you said the Canal was built in 1825 and now you're talking about 1880. [Ted]: I am indeed; actually talking about a little after 1900 when they proposed to do the final rebuilding on the Erie Canal and make it much wider much deeper then in order to do that they had to pull it out of all of downtowns: Albany, Utica, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo [indistinct] because it would [indistinct] just taking up too much space down there. So here in Rochester Rochester. They just dug at the edge about 3 miles south of the town. And ah Ran it right across the grade level grade crossing of the Genesee. Well, when they proposed this a lot of people said, Look, you will not put that filthy pestilential ditch full of dead mules through our beautiful park, This won't do. And Hi Edgerton. You remember Hi, he was mayor of those days. He He sent back to the office of that firm Frederick Law was was long gone, but his nephew and his I I believe his son, I believe was running it. And he said, gentlemen come back to Rochester. And design

for us the most beautiful river canal crossing you can possibly imagine. And we'lI see you when we get up there. there those 3 Olmstead Bridges. Beautiful little concrete arch bridges were sort of the centerpiece for this and it is indeed one of the single most beautiful spots along the whole canal. [Host]: Is this when they started calling it the Barge Canal? that was when they call 'em the Barge when they get did them. Now allegedly at the time there was a proposal. There were some guys who wanted to build a ship canal. So that your ocean going vessels can come right up the Hudson to Albany and take a left and keep right on going all the way to Buffalo. [Host]:Of course, they didn't need that after they got the St. Lawrence Seaway. [Ted]: Yeah, but this was 50 years before they got the Seaway.[Host]:Yeah. but the ship canal really was a little out of the question. Ah ah. If you stop and think the ship tends to be relatively tall. It had to have lift bridges in order to get out. [Host]: Oh yeah. [Ted]:So instead of a ship canal they built a barge canal and it became known and the official name of the New York State Barge Canal.. Barge Canal and [Host]: I much prefer the Erie Canal. [Ted]: I do. Well and what happened was, you remember a guy Johnny Bergron out in Pittsford who did so much work on the Canal. He was the guy who got Monroe County at least to

replace of every sign going across the Canal used to say Barge Canal to say Erie Canal [Host]: Erie Canal. then when the Thruway Authority took it over. Aw they officially changed the name from the New York State Barge Canal to the New York State Canal System. Comprising the Erie, the Oswego, the Cayuga, the Seneca and the Champlain.[Host]: Now there are ah the spurs going off the Canal going north and south are there not? [Ted]: There are indeed. and then that becomes part of what is now is called the Canal System [Ted]: The Canal System [Host] But a, but a once again there's very little commercial value to these canals. The recreational value is what will be ah significant about this. [Ted]: The last scheduled commercial traffic anywhere in the Canal aw was the oil barges, the gas barges that used to go from the ah Exxon Refineries of New Jersey up the Hudson up, up the white ah the Champlain Canal to Whitehall and then up Lake Champlain to the big SAC base in Plattsburg. You remember going round out there? [Host]: Oh yes. Oh when that got shut down ah there was no reason for a for oil to go anymore. So

ever since then ah which is now probably a good 10 15 years it's been Tourism. Here's the Chapel ah [Ted]: Here's a lovely chapel here the Interfaith Chapel [Host]: Yes. [Ted]: The ah the University of Rochester. [Ted]: Yeah. Courtesy of the McCurdy Brothers.[Host]: Beautiful oaks right there on the on the banks of the Genesee River. [Ted]: Yeah. But it's you know, You'll never see the Chapel from that angle unless you're on the river. [Host]: The fascinating thing to me was ah. When it became obvious that they were going to clean the river up again. And they started thinking they had to do something about it. This is maybe. 15 almost 20 years ago the South River Corridor Plan. City, the county, the university, Bausch & Lomb was heavily involved in this. [coughs] They did all this redevelopment along the University. My only complaint about the South River Corridor Plan; it's a nice piece of work: it's 80 pages long. The word "vote" is is not mentioned. So all they were working on was with the banks. A lot of us adults and if if you got a river you gotta have something floating on it like a boat.[Ted]: Yeah. [Host]: Ah so besides

Sam Patch. That will see as we get up here. It's now a terrific river for Aw rowing, kayaking, canoeing and particularly the competitive rowing. The great Regatta A lot of it takes place here in October right up here now. [Host]:Here's the Elmwood Bridge.[Ted]: Here's the Elmwood Avenue Bridge. Avenue Bridge yes. [Ted]:You'll notice on all of the bridges now they've painted the big red triangle and the green square. Aw that shows you know lead the red to port Lead the green to Stop. [Host]: Nope. [Ted]:Nope, sorry other way around [Host]: other way around [Ted]: Right is starboard and the left is port. You know I can't Can't get license to operate on the canal. I cannot get a captan's license. Coast Guard will not give me one. Because I cannot tell red from green. [Host]:You're color blind. [Ted]: I'm color blind. Millions. They insist you tell red from green. And then it's they're. That's not unreasonable. [Host]: Here we see red and green bouys.[Ted]: Red and green bouys to mark where the deep water is

between the bouys you know you got at least 10 feet. You'll recall the old rule on bouys of: Red - Right - Returning. You're coming back in to port. Leave the Red bouys on you're right, but, of course, I on a river canal where you've got a whole bunch of ports. Who knows whether you're going or going, so the rule is always upstream is returning. [Host]: These lovely green Green banks are part of the Olmsted Genesee Valley Park right? These specimen trees you see here are the ones that Olmstead planted back in 1880.And they're now 110-120 years oid. They're absolutely beautiful. [Host]: Well Ted, thanks for this quick tour of the river and with the canal crossing. It's been great to have you on the program and I want to ah ah thank you very much for being here. Our guest ah ladies and gentleman has been Ted Curtis. Ah ah a expert on the water resources of the Rochester area. Ah and we're going to try to have an additional program of this at some point. Ah but in the

meantime thank you very much Ted. I'm Barber Conable and this has been "Speaking of Rochester". If you'd like a copy of this program send $19.95 to WXXI. Post Office Box 21, Rochester, New York, 14601.