Seven Days; Umatilla Chemical Depot Proposal; Canadian Lumber Tariffs

Maybe you didn't need it. I am Stephanie feller and this is seven days our topic this week. Preparations for an emergency around the Umatilla Chemical Depot in eastern Oregon and the latest proposal to protect salmon and steelhead under the Endangered Species Act. Let's meet this week's panel. Kathy Diamond is the editor of Oregon Business magazine. Jim Long is an investigative reporter for The Oregonian. To Megan is the Seattle bureau chief for The New York Times and Richard Hensley is the editor of The East Oregonian newspaper in Pendleton last Sunday the CBS news magazine 60 Minutes trained its guns on Umatilla Oregon. One of the eight sites in the country where the U.S. Army stores its chemical weapons and where those weapons must now be destroyed under the international chemical weapons treaty.

Specifically CBS questioned whether the community surrounding the Umatilla Depot are sufficiently prepared for an accidental release of nerve gas and whether the money that has been targeted for emergency response has produced any measurable results. The consensus 60 Minutes came up with is no Richard. Is that a fair conclusion. Well I think it is a fair question right now. There are several items left to be put into place. The good news is that several listenings will be coming online within the next in the coming months. So that's because of the 60 Minutes piece. I think that definitely sparked interest in it and the seriousness of it but also a lot of this was and in the process of being put in place anyway. And maybe one of the biggest items that has since the 60 Minutes piece has come out is the tone alert radios which is one of the key parts of the notification planning. Explain what they are and what they are they're actually sort of the lowest one of the lowest tech parts of it I really hated what it is as in every house with at least 17000

homes within the immediate danger area the depo will be these radios that are mounted inside. And if there's an accident inside every person's home yeah they will be supplied free of charge and if some if an accident happens actually a warning will come over that and notify him. It's similar to other time what radios they use in the Midwest in case of storms tornadoes things like that but this had to be specially designed for this. This usage and I think that's been one of the hold ups but they're still looking at over a year before these will be if they're ordered today it'll probably be a year before they get them delivered. Some of these chemical weapons have been hanging around you know telling for 50 years now the most dangerous ones have been hanging around for over 30 years. Why the concern now. What's taken so long to be concerned about an emergency response plan there hasn't been any plan mandated up to this point. Well I think one of the biggest reasons is because you're getting right incinerate this with the next in the next couple years Governor Kitzhaber is not going to sign off on this until the emergency preparedness plan is in place he's already said that and I mean I think that's a

very good question I asked one of the one of things I've editorialized about is why wasn't a plan in place a long time ago. That is a that is a real good question back in about 1982 during the Reagan military build up they actually inserted birthers into I'm trying to think of the exact count about 80000 155 millimeter artillery shells which I'm going explosive expose in it and the shells already Hilda Serin and VX which are extremely lethal agents and they were out there as far as I know without any any particular protection just in ordinary munitions facilities in serving burgers into the ammunition. As a matter of fact one of the problems they have out there is that they have two leftover containers of VX and B nerve gas and they will have to get special permission to destroy those because they're not considered stockpile items that will take an act of Congress to allow the depot to destroy those things and so this thing is just

kind of a political and bureaucratic nightmare you know literally the incineration is drawing near that's probably what's going on here you know that's sort of human nature the old saying that there's nothing like a hanging in the morning to clear the head at night and that's approaching but let me ask you this about a year and a half ago in Tula you tell opened up their operation is becoming the first place in the country to start incinerating these chemical weapons. They immediately had some problems. There was some leakage of sarin and this is a community but it's a thousand 25000 people a very close personal to Umatilla had to shut it down right after they opened it turned out to be some valves. My question is do you know as you approach in Umatilla if they've learned from those problems. I know not everything is the same in each of these facilities but had they tried they learned and danced on that technology. Well I think General vouch for this. I spoke with the designer of the incinerator just last week. And a lot of the problems they've had. Johnston Island and also any I mean they really made improvements at least this is what he says. They've added extra

filters filtration systems also the state of Oregon also required them to add more than even what the Army had initially asked. And I think they are using you know they're updating that technology constantly and as even as they're building it they're changing the design. And a lot of the problems with the plan like this and this is something that we're going to have peace coming out Sunday in fact go over the top that this plan and any of these facilities like this are so complicated that you know you're not really too worried about the the big things going wrong because the army I think and I'm convinced that nobody in his right mind has his career in mind anyway would want anything even slightly to go wrong there but there all kinds of things the little things that can and do happen. Like one of the incidents that at Johnson Island they found out that rockets will will blow up on the shearing machine inside the plant. If they don't keep the blade clean with water. And even that even that you want to lower the Army's odds makers and

there's a big book of gods in the universe like him like a lot of you know Las Vegas bookie turn this thing out and probably you're going to blow up. Maybe one or two rockets in this process out of a hundred five thousand rockets and so the plan is designed to handle all of these string what we consider very scary incidents and we raise a very good point about the nature of technology. Let me remember the shuttle disaster all hinged on these O rings. This was this enormous undertaking that came to an end just an island into Will they had little gasket problems things you buy at the hardware store and that was the leak of Sarah and the Haas family within the facility of something as you said they have these odd they look at the big picture and then some little seemingly nothing go right to demand that the safety measure the safety measures in place are incredible and the actual incinerator. But they still have to open these bunkers up and get them out and that's there. That's where that transmitter that's going to be the dangerous part. They have a contained vessel that they will actually haul them from. But there still are some point you have to pick it up and stick it in this thing

and that's. All I know they say the real danger is you know the danger that they've they have planned for is something fall out of the sky and crashing into a bunker. That's where they say the most danger or an earthquake or something like that. I can't help but think it's when they pick these things up and stick them in the vessel that it's a bit scary but they say that most of the rest gets very very complicated because the risk is figured on the accident and then the consequences of a possible action in earthquake accounts for probably 80 percent of it they're afraid that a really big earthquake and there have been some in historic times in that area could topple pallets of rockets or something like that so if you get a rocket igloo going you know about 4000 rockets and it will you can get a pretty big a pretty big thing. And Jim isn't that isn't that why they say they can't just keep storing these weapons because of the earthquake danger and because that's why they have to actually to incinerate them. Yeah and I just I don't think I read of them in some way. Yeah that's that's right.

So interesting that in the years these things have been there and there were you know 10000 construction workers out there in tents after World War Two building the original Depot. We're still not that interested in it in western Oregon. And I think that's because we still assume that there really isn't very much happening out there not that many people live there and yet that whole region as Richard knows is it's one of the fastest growing parts of the state right now there's four huge developments going in there a Wal-Mart distribution center a new prison a Union Pacific a railroad repair yard and and then the construction project itself for the incinerators. Why did you bring in a thousand or a thousand people just a couple years ago I remember that there were nine construction permits in Pendleton in one year just recently and now we're looking at hundreds and hundreds of homes and thousands of new residents who haven't been that been part of the problem in creating the emergency response plan because they had this whole system of sirens for example. And by the time they had it all put together the population had moved and the population settlement pattern had moved in a different way area and they had to move this higher

one of the problems as you have two counties this thing borders on two counties so you have two county government you're dealing with. And there's just so many into these involved in this whole thing I think that's been the confusion from the start it's going to be the problem clear through the end as far as the preparedness part of it. No one wants to be slighted on money or funding or anything else. But it's I think it is the growth issue is a big thing. Right now though these these warheads are destabilizing and that's why they. And also there's a there's I don't know the treaty they have to get rid of these weapons. There's a site for Russian inspectors to be out there when the steps are being incinerated. They must be incinerated by the year 2007. And there's a question now can they get it done. The guy building the incinerator says yeah we can do around 24 hours a day we're going to you know once we get up and go and so I thought the incinerator construction program is on schedule all that destruction is but still by judging. There was a group saying Well judging what's happened in Johnston Iowa and the way the rate at which they

they destroyed their chemicals that there's no way they can burn the number of chemicals there by the year 2007. The Army says that isn't true because a lot of that was just testing being done out there. But you know they have a set up where they can but they can burn these things incinerate 24 hours a day although they are only going to move the chemicals out the bunkers during daylight hours. They can say they can stockpile in a warehouse and then burn them through the night and anyway but I think you know I don't think we're going to be terribly concerned about a schedule I think that if I were doing this I would be more terribly concerned about an accident and any kind of an accident whether or not the gas got off the site. Because that would be a terrible problem for the Army. And so I think that they're going to take as long as they need to. What's the likelihood of an accident. Well they figure there. There's all kinds of all kinds of laws for all different kinds of things are like. Like I believe the chance of dropping a raw rocket pallet there 15 of these rockets that are encased in these wooden

pallets. That's like one in 200 just to be the simplest form of that odds the odds can get more complicated. But but the question is you know what happens when you drop a pallet of rockets depends on a lot of things the age of the rocket the type of agent and whether the agent is leapt into the rocket propellant or into the burst or chamber. If you drop it on something so if you happen to drop it on a fire plug or something like that that's that's worse. The things that I guess after this week you can expect as to whether the odds are better than if the asteroid will hit us. In 2000 28 which had since moved off though after the big scare he's really done. If there were some sort of a leak out there and it affected humans how much of that kind of thing affects the rest of the ecology in the areas huge agribusiness out there and we would this have an effect on 60 Minutes they did a piece on Iraq and the Kurds who were gassed. And the mustard gas that was used on them just decimated the area around there and had long

term effects much like the atomic bombs had on Japan. I mean it's incredible there's the crops are dead the grounds the sterile are wasted. I mean that's a possibility. Is there really a way to to effectively protect the residents of the area if there is a leak outside the plant or if there is a fire in a plume. You know that's a that's a really interesting question. Sometimes I think that the myth of community safety programs with all due respect there are a lot of those public relations like you know one for instance the you know the fire departments were complaining because we didn't have these special vinyl suits to go out and. And and do what. You're in a nerve so you're the only person with a protective suit on. And so you're going to go out and you're going to open somebodies house door to see if they're OK we're going to you know let something in there I'm not sure exactly what they propose to do. Well really this is the whole one of the biggest parts of this preparedness is to shelter in place close your house up. The wet towels and the bottom and stay in your house

stay out of this debt. The schools have been pressurized 11 schools in that region. I believe that is 11 11 schools have been over pressurize so they have this system that won't allow any air in that it's over pressurized so children will be safe in schools. That's assuming they're in school. I mean if it's the summertime that is going to matter a whole lot. Then I think there's a certain lack of I don't know what you do if there is an accident. The worst case scenario is there's a plume and there isn't a lot of wind to disperse it. And this this this plume just kind of moves along. That's that's really what the fear is it's not if it's a windy day and there is a plume because if it gets dispersed enough. Danger drops considerably. And have the residents been afore informed what they should do in the event of a stationary plume like that. Do they know what to do. Well there's information out there whether it's I mean we did a just an unscientific poll and surprisingly not many people really didn't know what to do although a sea SEPA sent some things out. But I think a lot of the people there's been this apathy on the part of a lot of people

kind of just waiting to see what happens and now they're trying to get more serious about it and they'll probably educate themselves a little bit more and that's what intel people are wanting to be educated about and that's what is going to require. Well it's kind of interesting to talk to some school kids at Umatilla High School which is about eight miles from here and there and I was really surprised at the pessimism that kids would be more optimistic or more. Upbeat or were assertive or something and they said well. Thought the. Probably by the time we found out about it it would be too late. And good to me that was kind of shocking really. How much of the complaining about the preparedness plan or the lack of preparedness plan comes from environmental groups where this whose last stand is really making sure that there is no preparedness plan because if there is no plan then the incinerator can't can't operate and their ultimate goal is to keep the incinerator from operating.

I think it's very. I don't think the environmental community has much of anything to do with it. It's mainly the sea set people on the ground out there that are concerned it's emergency responders they're really concerned. They're saying if something happens we don't have the equipment to deal with it. And that's where the this whole flap of started. They're the biggest critics of it the people on the ground the people in charge the fire chiefs the emergency responders. They are the most critical of this whole program for talking to people there myself and maybe Richard you have a different impression but it seems to me that people are more concerned there for the incinerator doesn't go ahead that they are more concerned about just leaving the stuff in the bunkers and letting it continue to dissolve over time so they're more afraid of continued storage then ultimate incineration. OK let's move on to our second topic at the end of February the National Marine Fisheries Service cast the widest net ever under the Endangered Species Act. The agency has prepared an endangered species listing for 13 salmon populations ranging from the Canadian border to the Central Valley of California. The state's and Indian tribes affected by the proposed listing have a

year to come up with their own plans to restore fish run's if they fail the federal government could be forced to step in with recovery plans that will affect not just rural areas but the Northwest most densely populated urban areas. In short even if you're a city dweller the Endangered Species Act may be coming to roost in your own backyard. Tend to Puget Sound area would be dramatically affected by this proposal how did Washington officials react to it. Well there are two very favorably they've they've had an early warning system you talk about giving the community time that the feds have been tilling elected officials both here in Oregon and Washington California for years that this thing is coming. But it's interesting we just got been discussing you know destroying one of the some of the worst elements that man has ever you know put on this planet these horrible chemical agents know what they're talking about here is restoring one of the original icons the Pacific Northwest so that explains the political will being there. People want salmon in their backyards you tell the cousins back in Chicago that you live next to a little stream with these big fat you know come home to in the fall. It's one of the joys of living here so the political will

has always been there but it was interesting to me to read Oregonians reactions to their listing in California to compare to Washington now and Washington you had the governor the mayor the head of Boeing the head of Microsoft the head of all these corporations warehouse from what world's largest private timber company all come together with schoolkids and Indians and props in the background virtually singing We Are The World. Saying we are going to save the salmon now in Oregon where they have had a plan which is holding the feds off a little bit. You've or you're seeing some friction because for example some of the private timber companies do not want to restrict their cutting as much as nymphos the National Marine Fishery Service would like them to do that. You'll see that in Washington State I think as soon as they say this is a stop holding hands and they say well Mr. Weyerhauser you can't cut in this watershed and it's beyond what your own plan is. Or they go to Boeing and they don't allow them to expand their next plant or they go to Microsoft which is expanding at an incredible rate in the sun just virtually consuming up huge chunks of open

land. And they say to them there's a salmon stream down there. And so when that purchase starts to happen then you'll see something go beyond the initial hand-holding we're all in this together to some real friction point such as you had in a 10 year old battle over a spotted owl. I wonder. When we really get to counting the cost. You talk about everyone coming together and saying we are the world. Well we didn't really want to pay the cost. You know it goes beyond I think just a salmon stream being in your backyard that you have to protect it it affects everything from the cost of power to the kinds of roads we can travel on to a whole variety of things. And I'm wondering what will happen when people who live somewhere out east of Portland along Interstate 84 are told that it to replace one tow barge takes eight hundred seventy trucks and we're going to take the dams off the river and suddenly how do you transport all of that agricultural product to whatever from the eastern part of the state out to the Port of Portland. The tradeoffs are enormous.

And I'm not sure we've gotten even begun to have that discussion as a people well I think it's I think that it's going to Oregon is trying to work this out. They have the cocoa planet but I think at least on the upper Columbia I think it's really going to come down the federal government have a step in the trial which is the tribes the local government that everyone involved. It's just such a hot issue that I can't see anything really any headway being made. There are some examples the Umatilla tribe has has restocked the Umatilla river with hatchery fish. But by only getting Salman back in that river that's one of the key points and it worked with a lot of people county government farmers irrigators everyone. But beyond that that is such a tough issue that I think they're giving him a year to come up with some plan. But I think at the end of the year the federal government can say you know I don't I disagree with you. I'll tell you what the federal government saw what happened they want to keep consensus support for the Endangered Species Act it's a precarious and very powerful law arguably the

most powerful environmental law in the history of America for that matter and they want to keep the consensus support that's out there now and I'm just sidetracked on your earlier question. There's been a lot of polls done in the north of us I've seen them you've seen them that say and asked people would you be willing to pay a personal price a higher electricity bill except if it meant saving salmon people answer yes whether they're Republican or Democrat if they know there's going to be a specific value at the end. You know not to give it all to Government little to do it but still. I don't think the Fizzer do it for this reason that they saw how much it we can support for the essay they did species last time around. B They are just going to hold the hammer on National Marine Fisheries Service and your branch of the Commerce Department but they're still a bunch of biologists. These are people who go around and warn us about you know the spawning habitats of salmon they're not going to step in and tell Costco and Nike and Microsoft and Boeing and the City of Portland Seattle how to do their business they don't want to do that. All they want to do is hold this hammer out there and say sort of nudge among the

first phases happen precisely as they want it to happen. The states have responded they have their plans in place. So the big bad federal government can sort of hover and warn now exactly the crucial question is then what if those plans were the same and the numbers keep crashing. And you get to the point of extinction. Will the federal government step in. I don't think they will. I mean even though the political will is there I don't think they had logistical. I don't think they want to do it. I think they want to just hold that hammer out. And even with species that have already been listed I had been very reluctant to take any action against private land talking to actually. But this is a huge I mean isn't this a huge shift because we're not talking about a public lands and way out there in the public for us I mean if we're really going to have an effect here we're talking about huge changes on private land. So I when I hear you say fundamentally is it kind of hopeless. No I don't believe it's hopeless because I think that the will is there. Like I said the political will is there. If someone wants to know there's I mean what makes you think the will is there.

If if I'm the one who has to pay you for the example know a lot of these little this may be the hope this may be you have a lot of these little save the salmon groups people who've adopted the watershed and it's not the federal government saying you know looking at the macro thing it's the neighborhood group that maybe has one business there. And they're all they've all taken this one issue. If you've been around the northwest you see how some of these little coast dreams in urban areas in Seattle where I live you got things were just sewage ditches a few years ago now have fairly decent little go rounds in the fall because they've adopted that so I'm saying you can move for political will if you get everyone sort of involved in it that this is a little piece of your thing and you keep it on a local level debate. Whoops. The one main message they wanted to send out two weeks ago was that we want this to be a local thing because we're big macro federal government that can crush you but we want this thing to be locally driven. The difficulty of what we have to approach in the next year you know as just a reading a piece in The Oregonian today from a fellow named Paul who here who works a lot with

watershed groups around the state and on lobster Creek last year they actually had divers who snorkeled through the creek in the tributaries looking for where the salmon grow before they head out to sea. I mean that's the level of biological understanding that we have to have to save these fish and we've got to swim underwater with them and find out how they live and what they do. And that that's at 10:00 a.m. out of work that has to happen on stream and there is no historical precedent for what is trying to be done. That's what's so amazing about this right now. Never before has an Endangered Species Act been applied to such a massive urban or they tried a little bit Los Angeles on the actors where they've had this will catch a little bit of outside of Austin Texas a little bit in the Everglades where housing developments are but never before have you centrally said Let us try to restore nature in especially in urban areas and not just restore it in a sort of cosmetic way with Meisel trees but restore these pure arteries these rivers of life. That's what's so historic about it but I guess the reason I'm optimistic at the outset again is because when I see these corporate leaders sitting up there saying we're going to do it here's our plan and the

northwest is prosperous enough now that they can have they can take a few hits. I mean the vice chairman of Weyerhaeuser said we're going to take some hits on this and we're willing to take some hits. I was stunned by that. If it was 15 years ago the depth of a recession with 12 percent unemployment that would be another story. But look at the reaction of the timber companies IT companies in Oregon when Nance came in and said hey you know you guys you've got to tighten up your logging wrister instructions you got to be much much more careful about what you're doing stream side you've got to be more careful on a lot of you do on slopes and the timber companies have come in and screamed ruination you know you're killing us we can't do this you're taking 50 60 percent of our land out of production. I would defer to all of you on that but my guess is that that's true T.J. I've covered enough of these timber companies versus you know the nature agency to see that you sort of cry wolf or your loudest and then you'll settle for about 80 percent of what they wanted. What do you think that you got the fact that urban areas are going to be so heavily involved that's actually a political plus for saving salmon.

Really. Yeah I mean a political plus. Yeah I totally agree. I mean if you've if you've gone if you have kids in school if you go to school you see what they're learning their science classes it's a cycle of the salmon that used to come by. It's interval to these people's lives it's not an abstract the spotted owl was largely an abstract or urban dwellers. Oh my look force will be off limits. This is not an abstract. Do you have a sense of how it might actually attack people in their homes what they might have to do differently. Well I knowing the Seattle metro area where the Growth Management Act does apply not quite as effective as organs they have already said to some housing development you can't go here this stream. That's an anticipation of this nymphs listing. So that affects new homeowners all home or subsisting homeowners are having some restrictions on their sewage you know and so its costs are going up because they're diverting you know under those sorts of things but if it happens incrementally enough and there isn't any big now to more your bills go up 50 percent. I still think people will come along.

I wonder how we'll know we've succeeded I mean we walked down to the Columbia of the Lamb and dip the net in and pull out a salmon will we ever. Is there any hope in anyone's mind that we never go back to the days when the fish were that plentiful or will we will we were sitting out in front of Portland or Seattle pulling or 30 from Chinook in the home of the barbie. Well I don't I think the real indicator is going to be the interesting part of this is what kind of effect this will have and how long it will be before they look back at the dams and go there still have to come out. Yeah and boy that is the most contentious issue I've ever heard. And people jump up and down least in eastern Oregon read about that because of the irrigation and I think and I don't know if it'll revert to that I don't know. Cool I think I want you to know you were out of time and not about to be another show Kathy diamond Richard Hensley Jim long and to Meagan Thanks for joining us this week on seven days and thank you for watching. Good night.