Real Time; 112.0

Tianna Toser went to college on a basketball scholarship. Then she she was hit by a drunk driver. She still plays but she doesn't have a jump shot any more. This message and the broadcast of Real Time were both made possible by Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Oregon. Good evening I'm Jeff Schaffer and I'm Rita Flynn. Welcome to another edition of Real Time. [program music] What would you say if your son or daughter had to watch TV commercials in school each day? In tonight's program we'll be hearing more about an educational network that combines news with advertising and how it may be used here in Oregon. We'll also focus on the controversy over Martin Luther King Boulevard

in Portland. Voters will soon have the final say on whether the street keeps its name or changes it back to Union Avenue. We'll be hearing from Mayor Bud Clark and some of the other key players in that debate. First though, our top story this week, Governor Neil Goldschmidt took a giant step backward by stepping out of the race for governor. Goldschmidt's exit was quickly followed by the entrance of Barbara Roberts. Within the space of 24 hours the governor's race has a whole new look. I have put all that I could into serving as your governor and I am proud of what Oregon and Oregonians have done together. The four years that I have been granted in this office are a great privilege. But serving the state I love has come at a cost to another love - my family. Margie and I have decided to separate. It is going to be a rough time for our children as well as for Margie and for me and it is certainly no time to be running for governor. The statewide race is under the best of

circumstances a high pressure emotionally charged endeavor. It would require giving more of myself than I am prepared to give. For this reason I am announcing today that I will not seek re-election. Over the next year I intend to devote all of my energy to my family, and to my duties as your governor. This has been a very difficult decision. I feel very good about the progress Oregon has made over the past three years, and I wanted very badly - very, very badly - to engage Oregonians in a debate about how we continue our agenda. I put off my decision until now hoping that Margie and I could work out our differences. But it was not to be. There remains much for Oregon to accomplish and I will try with every resource available to me for the balance of my term to help our citizens achieve it. Thank you very much. Today, I'm announcing my candidacy for the governor of Oregon.

This was a statement I had planned to make to you in1994. The governor's announcement yesterday has not changed my goal. It has simply changed my timetable. My goal today is the same one that brought me into government 20 years ago. My belief that I can make a difference for people. In 1971 I came to the legislature as a citizen advocate to plead for the educational rights of my disabled son. I learned that I could change the lives of people in this process. I learned that I could move the mountain of government. I made my decision to run yesterday morning. The governor called me Sunday night and told me that in 48 hours he would make his decision if he would seek re-election. He told me he was leaning toward not running but his

decision was not final. He called me yesterday morning just after 8:30 to tell me that he would not run. I made my decision within a few minutes after that call. I am a Democratic liberal. I am not embarrassed to say that. The Republicans have been trying to paint me a number of ways for a very long time. After all the things I've done in the legislature and the record I had in this office and the issues I've spoken out on, many of them very controversial, the Republicans couldn't even find a candidate to field against me in 1988. When the press conference ended, we interviewed Barbara Roberts in her office. What issues, what do you think are going to be the key issues in the campaign that Oregonians are going to be focusing on? Well clearly the school finance question is one that is not going to go away. Uh, the worker's comp issue another incredibly important issue for Oregon. Some of the questions about timber are going to be there and they're going to be significant.

Do you feel there are any areas that you might be particularly vulnerable in that Dave Frohnmayer might be able to go after? I don't know. I can't. It's very hard. I mean I know the controversial issues I stand on but in many cases Dave Frohnmayer stands in the same place on those issues so I think we're not going to have one of those campaign of the bad guys-good guys on issues of that kind on the controversial issues so I don't see I don't see that kind of vulnerability at all. Where are the things that you think he would be most vulnerable on the kind of issues where you have the most differences. I think I'd like to wait to answer that till we finish doing some of the kind of work that I think is necessary to do a statewide campaign on those kinds of issues. There's no question about the stress. There's no question about coming into it late that it's hard. It's not the way one would like to do a major effort of this importance. But I feel ready to do it. And I feel like I've got the support to make that happen. It was a week just made for political observers and we have some here tonight. With me to question our political panel is Marilyn Deutsch a producer here at Oregon Public

Broadcasting. Also Steve Forrester, editor of The Daily Astorian, Steve Dean, a political columnist with The Oregonian, and Stephanie Fowler, media consultant. First of all let's just let's...let me understand. Should we take at face value the governor's explanation that he quit for the sake of his family including his children ages 17 and 20. Hop right in. Steve, you were there. I mean I...yeah, I was at his farewell address and he was remarkably composed for a guy who, as late as Sunday evening, right after he took his, daughter, Becca, to the Blazer game, came home and apparently asked his wife if she would stay with him through the course of the campaign. She said no. She would not. And I do think that that was the most significant factor. That she was not willing to either suffer the turmoils of another campaign or the rigors of life with Neal when he was going to be doing whatever Neil's going to do would be doing in the next nine months.

Steve, if he had been 20 points up in the polls would he have stayed in the race? Of course he would have because it would have been an easy race. But the way it was shaping up it would have been bloody, it would have been messy. It was getting dirtier all the time. So what's the answer to the question? Should we take it at face value? [inaudible] For this, for the family including the children ages 17 and 20. Virtually adults, not kids. Well I think though.. I realize these are grown up kids. One of them is out of the house but I still think that figuratively Neal and Margie have been separated for quite a long time. But I think the emotional trauma - I've never been through, maybe I'm not the one to talk but I would guess that the emotional trauma that is still wrought on kids no matter what age they are when their parents separate has to be significant. And there would have been, I guess Neal decided, no one there to protect them from this. Now let me ask you; instead of you two constantly asking over here, let's put you on the line. Uh, it was working for a while. Essentially Goldschmidt looks something like a saint. Here he is giving it all up for his family instead of sticking it out in what may have been a very tough race in which he might have lost, so do you see that as the face value reason that we should take it. Are there

other reasons there? No he's not...he didn't come out of this as a saint. I've known him since 1963 and I've been around their marriage, if you will, since about that time. And in the last few years, Margie Goldschmidt has been one of the most profoundly unhappy women I have ever observed public or private life. Why, I don't know. I'm not privy to that kind of thing but certainly, certainly no saint. None of us are, much less anyone in public life. [MARILYN DEUTSCH]: But what about other personal reasons? I've heard that he was just devastated by Michael Francke's death -- He saw the body and indeed in the 1989 legislature, he wasn't there much, was he? I think that was the emblem of how little pleasure I think he actually took in the governor's office. I think being governor was a shock to him and that's another one of these factors, there were personal vulnerabilities, the marital problems, the fact that he faced a very tough race. I think all of us here think he probably would have won and he was certainly coming up in the polls.

[people talking over each other] It tells us something about Neil Goldschmidt, I think, the point about having seen Frankie's body and so forth and that maybe he doesn't have the stomach for leadership to be...the man fancies himself according to his associates. [Cut off] That man who came in like gangbusters? That's right. His associates -- fancied himself as the first Jewish president. Well, maybe he doesn't have the stomach for that. If you want to be that kind of leader you have to, like Lyndon Johnson, be able to send people off to die and not give a damn about it. And if he was messed up over Michael Francke's death, maybe he didn't have it. [cut off] So is he out for good now. And the same with the family and so forth. Are we're going to see him come back? Pardon me? Ithink Marilyn raises a wonderful question here because here we are dealing with, theoretically the consummate political animal - we don't know what happened to him. He was for all intents and purposes, the next U.S. senator from Oregon. What with Neils goals right now?. Now wait. So we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.. Well he was supposed to be the guy who was going to get them next [inaudible] He going to become the next US Senator, theoretically.

[STEVE DUIN]: I think he is out of touch for quite a while. He, um, left dangling a lot of people who had made personal commitments to him, incredible investments to him. Mitzi Scott, who left her job with US West, I guess. Mark Cushing who alienated forever Dave Fronmayer by leaving Fronmayer's camp. The entire Democratic Party of Oregon. Yeah. The many of us who have large stakes in what he's been up to. I mean, all these people were waiting, waiting, waiting for Neal. They had no contingency plans. They all thought Neil was going. And he has.. you don't come back two years later and say now I want your help again so I can drive Packwood into the ground. To say nothing of all the money these people have raised for him. Kind of stuck himself... There is a school of thought that's worth floating, I don't necessarily agree with it but a good friend of mine whose intelligence I value - high level Republican sort -his comment was well; Bob Packwood loses in all this. His angle is Neal goes away for two years, comes back, and goes after Packwood. But I buy into what you're saying Steve; is who's going to be with him? Who's going to follow him down that road

now that he's let so many people down. What's your prognostications Stephanie? Well,I don't think it's that critical I mean this great tragedy for the Democratic Party - I don't think it's a great tragedy for the Democratic Party. I don't think, especially -the big issue in '91 for the Democrats is going to be control of the legislature, because it's the year -- every 10 years, when the legislature reapportions legislative and congressional districts. And sure he is the strongest Democrat they could have fielded for governor but there's not in a long long time been any coattail effect between the governor and legislative races. In fact, there's been quite the opposite. And as long as Barbara Roberts can give Dave Fronmayer literally a run for his money she makes it tough enough for him that he's that he's got to keep that war chest in the governor's race and not channel it into legislative races. She's doing a job for the Democrats. And I think she certainly can give him a run for his money. Okay, we are talking Barbara Roberts - We're talking now about a whole new ball game, essentially. Does anybody have any idea why she

decided so quickly? And.. [people talking over one another] She's been thinking about it since she got into power. It's like when you're [people talking over one another] she had about two hour's, she blinked, and now...the body is still twitching. Yeah, you know in the theater world what is it - what's the alternate, the sub called? The person.. the stand.. the standby stand-something. There's a word for it. Yeah. That's what she is. She's the walk on for governor. He's out, she's on. She's always been his hand maiden. If you notice that press conferences that have nothing to do with the secretary of state- and you really notice it if you're not there in person, if you're watching on television. And for some reason there was always this figure -Barbara Roberts was right there. Literally the lady- in-waiting. Well do we..is Oregon ready to elect a lady-in-waiting, a stand-by, a hand maiden? Does she have the credentials and the political.. the kind of political heavyweight its going to take to really make a credible run against Fronmayer?. I'm not sure. Do you need a political heavyweight to make a run against Fronmayer?. Jeff Mapes, the political writer at The Oregonian has pointed out - look what Dave Fronmayer has done for the last month, he goes to Klamath Falls

takes no stand on the salt caves. He goes to Albany, makes no stand on field burning. He goes to Corvallis, takes no stand on gill netting. I mean this is a guy the Democrats sort of figure that, you know, if he's going to go to the john, he needs a court order. Who's got the most political baggage: Fronmayer or Roberts? The what? Most political baggage. Fronmayer. He was around when the ?first? prison stuff went off. Barbara Roberts has got what it takes, no question. Back to Does Oregon want to elect a woman governor? Oregon wanted to elect a woman governor four years ago. A bonafide liberal Democratic woman governor. Listen - you ask the question a woman governor. They were ready to elect Norma Paulus. Norma didn't have what it took. Barbara, I think has more of what it takes. And this woman herself, Barbara Roberts pointed out something very important. She and Dave Fronmayer aren't that different in terms of issues, they're not that different. The big difference is stylistic. Both of them are sort of equally mediocre. And neither of them have a position on anything that they're talking about. None - we're kind of ground zero.

So they're an evenly matched pair. Well Rita; you said it before we went on the air you said it's really between an Oxford graduate and mom. Right. And that's really the style is what we're talking about here. You know she made it sound in the piece we heard that it's going to be there's - no good guy no ..no bad guy. But a campaign manager for Fronmayer's [inaudible] who she defeated back in 84. Think there's some nastiness there? Some bad blood? Are we going to see a nasty campaign? Well we were about to see a nasty campaign. There's no question about that. Even between these two? I don't think they've got anything on Barbara Roberts. Let me ask you what constituencies does Barbara Roberts bring that Neil Goldschmidt may have had trouble delivering? Women .Women. Women. Neal's never been strong with women. I think Neal had some problems ...Neal was having problems with some members of the business community. But she,actually she's worse off, a lot worse off than he was there. The old line liberal Democrats. You know she stood up and said I'm a liberal - now who gets to define in this race what a liberal is. Is she good enough to do that herself? Or do the Republicans

take that and make hay with that? Can they make hay with that? It's difficult because Fronmayer's positions are for the most part the same as Barbara Roberts. Are the Republican.. is someone going to field the more conservative candidate? I thought I heard something about that. Yeah the Oregon's Citizens Alliance is talking about a third party run for governor so that cuts against Fronmayer. [ALL AGREEING]: Yeah, Fronmayer...yeah... And the other thing you have to remember, too is that all politics is local. And Neil was ?tanning? this state very well we got our share down in Astoria. He gave his share to eastern Oregon. Barbara Roberts has been all over this state. You know, can I? we.. Someone mentioned ..called Neal the consummate political animal earlier. And I still think if Neil is the consummate political animal he arranges his separation and divorce just the way Bob Packwood did. You know, he conveniently stays together with his wife over the course of the holidays. He faxes his press release announcing the separation to his wife as Bob Packwood did. Yeah. I mean you know Neal.. this was a mess, Imean, this thing, when Neal did it, it went out of control. A

political animal would have had ..would have been more on top of this. All right. Are there. Any other. valid possible candidates that might jump into this race now. I mean I'm just Norma Paulus is just kicking herself for not...for deciding she was going to run for school superintendent. Anybody here like to declare just to.. Well, I notice that both Vera and David Dix skipped Barbara's announcement because they thought there was a chance of John Kitzhaber might get in the race. He has since taken himself .. I understand taken himself out. You don't take on Barbara Roberts. Don't forget the Roberts name. I mean, the Roberts In Oregon- it's like being a Long in Louisiana, at least in Multnomah county. You pick up a share of the undecided just because you've got that name. I think Robert's only goes so far. It works well if you have, if she's running against a candidate who is unknown. She isn't - Dave Fronmayer's name is better known than Barbara Roberts. It's better known, but I don't think people know *who* Dave Fronmayer is. [RITA FLYNN]: Right... Let me just ask very quickly, does Barbara Roberts automatically inherit Goldschmidt's money? Does she get all the money? No. she won't get a dime of it.. No. Can she get it? Legally yes, she can. But I mean, Neal -It's like Stephanie brought this up, I mean Neal

the Democrats especially in the house need that money every bit as much as Barbara Roberts needs it, and you know conservative Republicans gave, a lot of conservative Republicans gave me all this money. They're not going to like it if he tosses it at a liberal Democrat. All right. Ok, it's going to be interesting, huh? Its going to be interesting and we'll be convening this group again soon and often. I want to thank Steve Forester, Steve Dean, Stephanie Fowler and my colleague Marilyn Deutsch. You might recall a couple of weeks ago we threw our dart and it landed on the city, right on it. The city of Cascadia. Well,l we sent one of our producers Rob ?Mine? there where he found Mike Horner and his timber mill. [Machine sounds] We don't have to [inaudible] Cascadia You know, our economic infrastructure here is not very complicated. It's very simple. [laughs] You go to work in the mill or you go to work in the woods or you stay home.

[ROD MINOTT]: Like elsewhere in Oregon, times have been tough for this small, scenic timber community. Cascadia sits in Eastland County -- in the Cascade Mountains. Two hundred people call this area home. Here you'll find Maple's grocery store. The local post office, and up the road, the Triple T. The triple T stud mill has been here for six years. That's triple T or Try for a Third time. Maybe we're just too dumb to quit. Since the 1950s, Mike Horner's family has fought to keep their mills going. The Triple T is the family's third here. Two others failed. It kind of gets in your blood, I guess and it's ..our heritage is here. Doing what we're doing. That's what we do- we're saw millers. And that's how we've been since the first Horner

ran the first sawmill. Mike and his sister Jean now run the Triple T. When it reopened in 1984, the family had scaled down, modernized and switched to milling smaller trees grown on private land. With this operation, we tried to target a small second and third growth tree that probably averages 35 to 50 years old. We think that This sawmill here represents the sawmill of the future. The sawmill that can process the small tree, the sawmill that can process a tree that's not very old And a sawmill that can can prosper doing those things. This small independent mill has prospered. Ninety-five percent of its two by fours end up in California homes. But nowadays little is ever certain in timber. And last fall things took a turn for the worse. Competition among bigger mills had pushed Log prices skyward. The purchase of timber had become extremely expensive.

And the Triple T had trouble competing. The company was forced to lay off 30 employees - half of its workforce. That's a part of my job that I that I despise. It's never easy and it is something that you can never take lightly because you're impacting people's lives and in your mind you see kids looking for new shoes and food on the table and rent being due, and it's really tough. Do you worry about having to shut down again? All that... that worry is always there. And in the climate that we've seen the last year. It's a definite possibility. any mill that's in operation today has to look at that worst case scenario. Even so, Mike says he's still optimistic the Triple T will continue to prosper. After all, he says, it's a truism that Horners are born to keep running

sawmills. It's the nature of the business. The strong survive and It's natural selection. [laughs] [RITA FLYNN]: For years, we've heard complaints that American kids spend more time watching TV than doing their homework. So how about using television in the classroom? Several companies are already offering programs for use in schools but not all are without controversy. One of the most hotly debated programs will soon be making its debut here in Oregon. And here is Jeff Schaffer with a background report. Can your teenagers name the two most popular diet colas but can't locate East Germany on a world map>? Can they identify a car's making model with only a quick glance at its tail lights but don't know who the president of Nicaragua is? Do they head for their rooms when you turn on the nightly news. Well, Channel 1 wants their undivided attention for 12 minutes a day. Not in front of the TV at home but in the classroom at school. In return , Whittle communications, the company marketing the program,

will provide a school with all the hardware it needs to broadcast the program; including a satellite dish, VCR's and TV monitors, all at no cost to the school. So what's the catch? Advertising. / Snickers really satisfies ..the channel 1 daily newscasts will include two minutes of commercials. The idea of showing commercials in public schools has touched off a nationwide controversy. The two states with the most students - California and New York - have responded to Whittle's offer with a resounding no. But here in Oregon the state Board of Education recently voted to let individual school districts make up their own minds. The discussion about the Whittle concept did focus on the possibility that in some districts the equipment that Whittle would provide would be badly needed. Additionally there was some interest in seeing what the market would determine about the acceptability of the Whittle program. We left it was a local decision matter and I supported that position.

One school that is considering using channel 1 is Reynolds High School in Troutdale. District superintendent Hudson Lasher says the offer of free video equipment is a key consideration. If we already had the equipment we would then have the opportunity to opt for other things that are on the air, and I know CNN does something without commercial advertising. But right now the hook is we'll give you the equipment and so that's what gets your attention. And I just hope we can -we can make a thoughtful decision not slandered or tainted with geez you get all that $50,000 worth of stuff, you know. It still isn't clear how many schools in Oregon will opt for channel 1. The Marshfield district in Coos Bay has already signed up and broadcast should begin sometime in March. State officials also say that the use of TV programs in schools is just beginning and that competition for class time will only get more intense in the years to come.

I believe that there will be other vendors who will probably get into the market and frankly I hope that happens. We have technology that will make a difference in the way we operate schools and I think that technology is emerging and will become more and more a part of the life that we see in public schools. So is Channel 1 going to get clear reception in Oregon or lots of static? With us now are John Ramig his law firm has been hired to represent Whittle communications in this state. And Steve Johnson is director of educational services here at OPB but tonight he's here stating his personal opinion with 11 years of educational television experience. Let's get that straight. Mr. Ramig I figured you wouldn't be in the state of Oregon, or Whittle wouldn't if they didn't think that this is a seller here. Why so? What makes it so? Well I think the company realizes that Oregon has always had a progressive image and is always on the leadership of issues that are important not only in education but across the nation in a number of areas. And they wanted to be in Oregon as well as other states.

Do you have any reservations yourself about the two minutes of commercials? You know it's interesting, when I first heard of the program without seeing it the issue was more abstract. It was well do we want commercials in school? Well, when you see the program. the quality of the program sells the program and then it's a decision of do the commercials outweigh the value of the program,and the program is excellent. Steve Johnson, It's just two minutes. What do you make of it? What's your side of the argument here. Well, in this day we've got compulsory school attendance laws which means that every student is required to be in the classroom. And I see this as sort of the camel's nose under the tent. For the first time we're allowing direct advertising by delivering those students -basically a captive audience- to the Whittle folks. And what's the harm in that as you see it? What's the harm to the students?

Well, historically the classroom has been the marketplace for ideas where we present all viewpoints on a particular topic and commercial advertising, direct advertising like this is certainly not - its a biased message from the private producers of those products. Can I just ask both of you -I'll throw this out to both of you. Why don't these kids read newspapers? You know what's wrong with the flesh and blood teacher who teaches current events?Whatever happened to that idea? I think part of the answer Whittle has addressed in the channel 1 program and that is the news is irrelevant to the students or they perceive it's irrelevant. You can talk about an OPEC price increase but if it's not reduced to the increased price of a record album it may not mean anything to a teenager. I hate to say it but it's true. It sounds so scary. Steve, do you have any answer to that? Why don't they just read the newspaper - learn to read the newspaper? JHave a current events teacher? Don't we have current events teachers anymore? Yeah I think there is a problem, they've perceived a problem that high school students aren't necessarily as aware of current events as they should be and certainly in my profession,

I am an advocate typically of television as a teaching tool because it is the most powerful medium we have and it is very motivational. Again here I think the issue is are there other options for getting televised programs into the classroom without commercials. They don't bring all of the little goodies the $50000 worth of equipment and so forth. But I just think in this case the issue is really that singular issue of the commercial advertisement in the classroom that we simply don't need. And let me just disagree with that a little bit. I don't think that's the fundamental issue. I mean back up from the commercials. Channel 1 was developed really at the request of teachers and administrators who'd identified a need that students didn't have ..They identified the need that there was no current events knowledge. That there were no current events that students were willing to... they didn't demand that you go out and make Channel 1 money on it. That's right. That's right. Ok. Whittle put together the channel 1 program to discover that 93 percent of all classrooms in the country didn't have the equipment to deliver. They had to

essentially create a delivery mechanism which had to be funded somehow. And the commercials are the way. And is this equipment usable for anything else by the school district? They can use that VCR machine for anything? They can pick up on that satellite dish any other programming they want? That's right. The use of the equipment is unrestricted. With one exception - there can.. They'd have to get Whittle's consent to do another news and information program that contained commercial advertising. Would Whittle give them the... Well there aren't any. But if there were any others would they? Would they give them the ability to pick up OPB for instance? Well there are no commercials on OPB... Steve. you're comment? Well I think the.. I don't believe this system is quite that flexible. It really..the trend we see when we deliver television programs to the schools are that the classroom teacher is really in charge of what goes on in the classroom. They want to be and they need to be. Again to emphasize that marketplace of ideas concept where they're controlling the teaching. Basically what we need, and we don't have it yet, but we need a DCR and television set in every classroom. What the Whittle project does

is put a centralized VCR in the school library the principal's office and a television set in every classroom. It's great when the principal wants to make an announcement or run something that everyone should see simultaneously. But it's all centralized and it doesn't give the teacher the flexibility to really teach with this other than to turn it on and let it run. Very quickly - is there any evidence, and I throw this out to both of you -that this channel 1 program has made a difference in what students learn about the world around them? Well so far there have been two studies done. One was done at the request of Whittle, which showed in a limited survey significantly greater results on test scores. The other test was in Cincinnati again showed an increase that was a much smaller increase. Now the Cincinnati one was like statistically insignificant, the increase if I'm correct and the school district did not re-sign up after trying the field test last spring. [JOHN RAMIG]: Yeah, I would go on to say that that school board had a political axe to grind and that poll has been discredited by independent observers.

Right. You got the last word for just now. We're going to extend this discussion right now. Our thanks to Steve Johnson and John Ramig. But both of you stay where you are. Jeff Shaffer is going to bring us some other views of channel 1 and we may want to have some discussion back and forth. Jeff? Thank you Rita, and we do have some views here that should really count. We couldn't talk about the subject without input from students and we have four real students they came in on a Friday night. I have no idea how we got them to do it. But they're from the Portland area metro schools. And just quickly ?Chrissy Sturtevant? is from Wilson High School. Warren Olandrea is from the Reynolds High. Troutdale is the school considering Channel 1. Over on this side is Alice Dixon and Ken Dixon -no relation -but they both go to Jefferson High School and Jefferson is the magnet school in Portland and they're actually involved in high school TV production. And my question to all of you just off the top is.. we showed you the program before you came in and you saw the Channel 1 sample, you saw the news. Did any of you have any instant offhand reaction to the show and the commercials?

What do you think? All right, to me it seemed like it was.. it was really a package deal and I didn't really.. because we have a TV program at Jeff so I tended to kind of look at the whole package and not really the facts just kind of slid in and then out the other ear and I didn't really get anything informational out of it. And I could see that after a while it'd probably got kind of boring. Are the commercials, I mean, now they're that big deal. Did anything stand out about them one way or another or did they just blow right by? They're real stereotypical, real stereotypical. The ad for mascara. It's like... Right. Great Lash, Snickers and one of them I think was for Ford. So...Thats, I mean I think that's a lot of what the kids are picking up on is the stereotyping, you know you want to put this into the school where you're teaching the kids about current world issues or whatever. Why are we..it's like why are we contradicting ourselves? Why are we selling candy and pop and mascara when we're trying to teach kids about what's going on in the world you know? In different countries and foreign nations and... And the pace is really weird because it's really fast.

You go from one story to the next. Right,and it's supposed to be because they said you've got to get kids attention. But then when you go to the commercials then it's like let's wait for a little bit take it a little slower. And then they go right back into the programming. And then you ask yourself sort of what's the point? Now, Warren you're at the school that's actually considering this. I mean how do you think this ..what would it play with the people you know? Well I feel that the ..you know, if you look at the benefits versus the values that are supposedly being ruined by channel 1. I mean, it's obviously one step in the right direction. I think since our education system is not being adequately funded at this point that privatization, commercialization is the only way that schools need to go right now. In Oregon we're having funding problems. And in my district we're having a lot of funding problems. And so we just can't afford to buy all that equipment. But we are getting that equipment and also theyre..

Channel One is informing the students and they are affecting at least one person. I think that the benefits are there. And are going to be good for the students rather than the bad thing. That's another point now is that students are tuned out. That, you know there's got to be a way to get students more in tune with current events what's going on in the world. Is that a valid criticism? Well I can see your point in that you know the schools are under funded and everything and at Jefferson because we have our television program we already have a TV in every room, we already have the VCR and all that. And you produce a newscast every day. Yeah, and we produce our own newscast. But in a way I think that just because the way the program is paced and just because it is so artificial, to me it seemed that I was not paying attention just because it was like oh, this is like watching Entertainment Tonight. You know, you want to change the channel but you can't. My question. My question is why not go through the teachers? Why not have like someone physical there? Like a physical human body telling you what's going on rather than..someone you can discuss with and discuss with your peers like we are right now, rather than having someone talk at you and say this is how it is. Or

maybe like a video segment, and then a pause so you can talk? You know discuss the issue because it went by so fast the only way I could see that that would be instructional is if you videotaped it, you actually recorded it and then played it back you know one segment at a time and then discussed after each segment, because,,, well, now Rita made the point over in the other segment was that why don't kids just go to the library and read the paper, and I notice some of you had a little reaction to that. And so I assume kids haven't lost the habit completely of going to the library. And I think some people do read the paper. I know I do. And there are ads in the paper is another thing people say .. But you can flip past the ads. I don't know. I kind of think that for a lot of people TV is a lot better just because it is so much faster than reading a newspaper because your average newspaper article takes you about ten minutes to read. I mean, just if you want to get into like the front page story. That often depends on how well you read, too. Yeah, and how well you can read and you know just a lot of different factors and TV is just so much faster. It's a more efficient way of learning. Well now that's another question I would have is would TV really make that big a difference in classrooms, do you think the kids that you know would really have that much of a change toward

their attitude toward education if they were actually getting TV to prompt, to generate some interest? From looking at our school, because we already have the TVs and we already have the VCRs, and most of the times if you want, like if a teacher wants to show a video in class, that we already have the VCR we already have the TV so they can do that. And a lot of the people that I know who go to other schools they think that, you know, because they have to read the newspaper they don't have the option to go get the VCR and the TV and we just learn. We get more, not more information but ours is more current because it's like you know the news taped off of last night's show as opposed to the newspaper where you have to go through and read and the teacher has to go through first. And I think the point ..you go ahead, make your point. Because my question is how many people in high school actually go home and watch Dan Rather or Peter Jennings? Rather going to school. And then it's right in front of you. They have the opportunity and I feel that if we give them the opportunity to actually learn something because the graphics that they give are excellent. I mean you hear all these statistics about people don't know where Hawaii is. People don't know where

Florida is. It's showing you on the screen exactly where it is. It's showing you where, for example, where Libya is I mean a lot of people probably don't know where Libya is but for those of you who know that that might not be a problem. But there are a lot of people who don't know geography, don't know what's going on in everyday life. And that's what we need to be concerned with - every day life. What's Gorbachev doing? What's happening in Panama> So I think.. the point ..go ahead Chris. My point is.. is that why can't we do this through the teachers. I think that television the kids are really going to pick up on they're in tune to that. But what about the part when the commercials come in? The kids are going to pick up on that too. You know we're not like a bunch of statistics. we know what's going on - There's one point Warren made. I want to just follow on one thing Warren did and we have to wind up, and that is that a lot of Oregon schools are not getting that kind of support they need. Private industry here is stepping in. And is that the kind of thing, as I understand what you're saying, they're filling the void that's there and you don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with the.. I mean the

what they're trying to do, they're trying to benefit the school - they're not trying to tear it down like like the previous speaker was showing. But I believe that it's going to help the students honestly. I think a lot of schools are just going to sign up for it just to get the equipment. I mean especially in Oregon because it is under funded. If the only way you can get the equipment is they say you have to watch 12 minutes of broad, you know this thing with the commercials and I know yeah, we'll protest a little bit when we get the equipment we get what we wanted in the end. And,you know 12 minutes- you don't have to really watch those 12 minutes. People can just sit there. They can turn it on, the teacher can correct papers and the students can whisper and pass notes. That's what happens at our school in some classes when we show our show at, you know, once a week. I'm sure we're going to hear more about it. We have to wind it up now and I want thank all of you. Alice Dixon, Ken Dixon, Warren Olandrea and ?Chrissy Sturdevant?. None of them are dweebs. We had real students in tonight, I thank all of you for being here. Again channel 1 should be going on the air sometime in March and we'll see what kind of reception it gets from other students around Oregon.

[transition music] Whereas it has been named Martin Luther King, let it stay. Let it stay Martin Luther King. But the man fight for all of us. He died for all of us. Ernestine Broadus has a dream. She wants to keep the street outside her northeast Portland restaurant named for Martin Luther King Jr. The man stood for Human rights. So [inaudible] -every time you go down the street, up and down the street that's named after an individual they'll know what he stood for. They'll do some research as to why the street was named after Martin Luther King. That hope was shared by some of the diners that Broadus's restaurant.

I would..I don't.. I don't want to go back to Union Avenue. I think that by being named Martin Luther King Avenue I think that was a significant achievement for blacks in this community and it's something they can look up and see, you know, every day. Say, Hey that's Martin Luther King and that you know, associates, you know positive image. But today along the seven mile stretch of King Boulevard in the heart of Portland's black community northeast, to the white-owned businesses southeast the image is something else. A campaign is underway to rename the street back to Union Avenue, a campaign that many expect to be racially charged. It has race all, you know, all around it,above it, through it, yes. The man was a black man and the ones who are really fighting mostly against it are the white people. So then I don't know any other reasons, I mean, why they would want to keep it Union? Union Avenue supporters say it's a matter of city hall bungling. Last month they gathered enough petition signatures to put the question before voters in May. Recent polls show overwhelming support for their initiative to change King Boulevard

back to Union. It was last spring that the Portland City Council voted unanimously to rename Union Avenue to Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard in honor of the late civil rights leader. But opponents claim the city violated its own renaming rules by failing to garner majority support among surrounding business and neighborhood groups. The biggest and the most often response that we get is that it's the dumbest thing City Hall ever did. Rosalie Huss heads the campaign to keep the Union Avenue name. She says city leaders not only violated rules but also ignored the historical value of Union Avenue. Even so, she still refuses to debate the issue with King Boulevard supporters. Always try to bring in the fact that it could be racist and I get so sick and tired of hearing this word racist, racist, racist. Over and over again. But charges of racism have dogged Huss. She and her husband are well-known right wing

political activists. In past years, they've published literature with racist overtones and articles attacking Martin Luther King. How do you feel about Dr. King and what he stood for? I don't ever answer questions on what because it doesn't matter. But you must have an opinion. No, I'm not making any statements about that at all. Do you consider him a hero? He is to a lot of people. to you? Well. I don't think I have to answer that. On Southeast King Boulevard many business owners like Ron Tanner say keeping the King name will be a financial hardship. The name change will cause me to repaint my building, it will cause me to repaint my my vehicles, it will cause me to change my stationery, my letterhead, my invoices, all my administrative tools that I have here that now have Union Ave on them and it will impact the

probably two or three thousand dollars. To ease the hardship City officials will leave both the Union and King Boulevard signs up for five years. Tanner says his opposition to the King name has nothing to do with racism. Is it at all a concern that people might identify this area as a black area because of the name? That's not a concern of mine. There could be, I mean I'm sure that there are some racist people out there and some people who are concerned with that but I've not talked to any. But Rosalie Huss said she's talked to businesses concerned the King name will scare away customers. I know That a lot of the businessmen are making preparations, if it stays that way, to move, because the business will fall off. With the campaign gearing up, Huss pledges her group will not turn it into a racially divisive contest. Ours will not be that kind of a campaign. We will campaign to remain Union Avenue and that will be our campaign. And it will get renamed in the end

because that's what the people want. All right, to discuss this issue now we have with us Portland mayor Bud Clarke also Carolyn Leonard - she is chairwoman of the Martin Luther King Blvd. committee and city commissioner Bob Koch - and also one note on Wednesday the Portland City Council did approve placing that measure on the May ballots. And Mayor Clark, I think first my question to you is in terms of the campaign that is coming up now, what do you see as your role in it, and what are you going to do as far as how the voters should approach the issue? Well, Jeff I'm going to campaign very hard and it's going to be mainly educating the public and citizens of Portland about what a great man that Martin Luther King was, and the message that he has is still living with us and we ought to carry that message on and keep Martin Luther King Boulevard. Do you think they don't know that right now? I don't think people know as much because, since

this issue has come up, I've learned a great deal. I've been given a book of quotations from Martin Luther King Jr. by Andy Young two years ago when I was-- But, really Mayor, do you really believe honestly that most people don't know who Martin Luther King was and what he really stood for? Most adults in the city of Portland-- They know Martin Luther King Jr. but it's something that happened quite a while ago. They really don't know all the things, they don't know the impact that Martin Luther King had on recent events. I mean, I think in many ways people all over the world know more about Martin Luther King. The Berlin Wall came down down peacefully, partially because of Martin Luther King Jr. But do you think that that's going to matter to this.. in this issue whether or not they really know who Martin Luther King was? Well, I know that they've changed names back. You know Cape Canaveral is no longer Cape Kennedy. And I know that that can happen, and people are very conservative that way and they don't want to change names. But I think that it affords an opportunity to educate the public about the justice and civil rights measures that Martin Luther--

Let me let me just ask you- does the city council, I'll ask both of our council members here,have the authority to rename a street in the city of Portland. Certainly. Okay. Did you have to put this on the ballot? I feel we had to. But there's a legal question whether we did or not because an initiative addresses a legislative change and we have on our legislative hats and we have on our administrative hats so.. You [already?] have your political hats on. Commissioner Cox, let me just ask you- at first the commission -the city council - was five zip on this. Now there's been some backpedaling here from the best we can decide, on this interview with Channel 2 that was kind of retaped, you were asked if you favored renaming the street Union Avenue. Then you said yes and then you said no, no, no. Where are you now on it? Well,to begin with I haven't changed my position since day one, and if you want to go talk to the producer of that show then you'll find out-- I just want to know what your postion is. -- that I didn't change my position either nor do we have any intention of doing so.

I voted for Martin Luther King Blvd. for one very simple reason and that is that in our struggle to try and [inaudible] that area and revitalizing in Northeast Portland, a place where I've lived for many, many years now. I had a very deep concern about, we were looking for - at least I was looking for - something that would leverage pride and respect about that area that would get the people themselves to no longer tolerate the kind of things that are happening so that they would come out of their houses, walk to the street and they would say We're not going to have prostitution here, we're not going to have drug sales here, we're not going to here crime here - this street, No. Not now, not ever. And that's what we're, what I certainly was trying to do. Carolyn, what do you think about what we've said so far? Are you in the effort with these men? Are they doing all they can? I think they're right. Our concern as a committee when we talked about renaming a street we have criteria and that street met the criteria that we set up. Prior to that we said we felt it was for the greater good of the city. We still do. And I think that our city councilman feels

the same. Carolyn, let me ask you with respect to the politics of this the other side is now extremely active and has been active in getting this petition going. With the exception of announcements of meetings and so forth the black community is perceived to be largely silent on it. Is that because it's not the problem or you think that it would be worse to to come out in front for it, or is there fear about it? This is not going to be..This is not going to be won by the African-American community. This is going to be won by everybody in the city. This is not an issue. In fact we were very careful as a committee when we started out to say this is not an argument for an African-American, this is an argument for a great American. This is for the greater good of our city, so it isn't just the African-American community. We've been silent because we're real concerned about other people. It's going to take European-American liberals to get out there and say what they believe. If every African-American voted for this we could not win it.

And we've had a number of meetings. I've had to step back a little bit because I chair a human relations commission and people can confuse hats and it's very important that I be involved in the education of the community and let them vote however they're going to vote. But the community is organizing. They are waging a campaign. African-American people are taking the lead. They've not been ready, quite frankly, to come out but I think very shortly you will see them along with people with the rainbow coalition working together. And we're careful to make sure that all kinds of people are involved. This is our city. Can the position of the city council was when they voted to do the [surgery?] they wanted to do the right thing. Couldn't you have taken that same position by voting not to put it on the ballot, to say we're going to do the right thing? It would have been an outrageous insult to democracy. The initiative process in the state of Oregon is We're one of 22 states that has that, and the final voice of democracy is the people, and they follow the rules. They got the initiative through and it would have been a slap in the face of democracy had we not put that on the ballot and

we did have legal advice that give us the leeway not to and we chose to put it on the ballot in respect. The anticipation is that this is going to bring about further image problems for the city of Portland on the heels of the skinhead gangs and all of this other stuff. Today we had the presence in the city of Portland of a guy who's from the KKK in Mississippi. How do you envision handling this? that side of it? That kind of.. The poll makes it very clear that it's not divided on racial ranks. It's a question of changing names. And that's the-- Do you really think the polls would show that? Have Union Avenue, I think it was a great question raised this week, if they would have tried to name it Ronald Reagan Avenue would we be having this discussion? I think it would have been, it wouldn't have been a chance for being Ronald Reagan Avenue. I don't really do. I don't think there would have been a chance. I don't I think..not on this city council , because Ronald Reagan did not do our cities any good whatsoever. And he had-- Well, not going into

go ahead. I think that there really needs to be some clarification here and I think there needs to be some honesty and integrity of what's occurred so far if we're able to go to the people and really explain the issue well. And that is it was the desire this counsel who was working so hard to pump the resources and to get the right thing going for inner Northeast Portland, and that we saw this as an opportunity to do something positive. There is no one of us, and believe me, elected officials are looking for the blind sides all the time. There wasn't a one of us saw this one rolling down the hill, not at all. What does that say about your political savvy? It says that I learned a heck of a lesson in this. I agree with Bob, and I very much didn't anticipate that. No, and the other thing - What the lesson here was is that we were 10 feet ahead of everybody else. But in all due respects though, there was a group of concerned, honest citizens who were out working to, in fact, find the proper way to honor Dr. King for years before this issue came to city council. They were turned aside on a wide array of options. They were turned aside. I didn't see anybody jumping out of the woodwork saying we'll work

with you to find something that will work. Well, let's develop some cohesiveness -that didn't happen. And so when it came to City Council, who the heck would have thought, for God's sakes when people talk Union Avenue, they think drugs, crime, prostitution, people don't care. Who'd have thought that anybody would have said Union Avenue? Well we'll see what happens in the May --I'm sorry we have to actually move along. We'll have a vote in May. We'll see where we go from there. thanks tonight, Portland mayor Bud Clark, Commissioner Bob Carr, and Carolyn Leonard. And our question this week is do you support the concept of having a street or bridge in Portland named in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King? That's our question for your time. Tell us what you think by calling 293-1990. It's not a toll free call. There will be a charge if you're outside the Portland area. [music] All right. Just to let you know that we do take your comments to heart. Last week we had 20 calls about

our workers compensation segment segment. Five of you wanted to know where are the Republicans, and the rest of you wanted to know why we didn't have injured workers or doctors or business interests represented first? Over the course of five weeks, we did talk to a host of people who are in the system such as health care providers, union members, small business owners, lawyers, and representatives from the insurance industry. And we will continue to follow the worker's comp issue as it unfolds with both political parties having the opportunity to state their positions. Over 50 of you called in to share your thoughts about how to lower the crime rate. Creative options ranged from opening Pentagon and CIA documents and bringing the policymakers to justice, putting prayer back into the schools, raising teacher salaries and then the range went to reversible vasectomies for 13 year old boys. However, other comments took on a more traditional approach like more jail space, full restitution, and tougher penalties. But about a third of the callers - one third- want to see some kind of drug legalization.

We thank all of you who called. And our real time quiz last week turned out to be extremely baffling. We showed you a picture of a man listening to a radio and we asked you who he was and what station he was tuning in. And here are two calls that tried but failed to get the right answer. I was calling in reference to the question they just asked. WABC and [inaudbile] Hi this is Van [inaudible] calling and I'm sure you'll have everybody in the place calling an telling you this was Tom McCall. listening to KGW. Actually the second caller wasn't totally wrong, in fact our mystery man was listening to KGW radio but he wasn't Tom McCall. He was Ronald C. Calvert,who was station manager back in 1925. The source for our question was a book titled That Balance So Rare by Terence O'Donnell. Now, for next week's quiz we've got a quotation from a Midwesterner who once ran for president and it says, My definition of a free

society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular. So ,who said that? If you think you know, call our real time answering machine at 293-1990 and that's all the time we have. That's our show for this week. We'll see you back here next week. Happy Valentine's Day. Good night. Good night. [music] [COMMERCIAL]: Tiana Toser

[inaudible] went to college on a basketball scholarship. Then, she was hit by a drunk driver. She's still plays but she doesn't have a job shot anymore. This message and the broadcast of Real Time were both made possible by Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Oregon.