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[Jim Swenson] Good evening and welcome to Front Street Weekly, Oregon Public Television's news magazine; I'm Jim Swenson. [Gwyneth Campbell Booth] I'm Gwyneth Campbell Booth. University of Oregon president, Dr. Paul Olum about his involvement in the Manhattan Project and comments on the recent nuclear arms race talks down in Geneva. [Olum] 'They are saying words for the first time, that suggest a real desire to get rid of nuclear weapons.' [Swenson] The United States Football League is in the Northwest, and Breaker mania is beginning to hit football fans, the business community, and civic leaders. There's even talk of building a domed stadium to house the team. [Booth] Thanks to the dreams of one conservationist, there's a little bit of Africa nestled in the rolling hills of southern Oregon. Dr. Paul Ohlin has been president of the University of Oregon since 1981, but academia has not always been Olum's career. In 1924, with selected as a member of the Los Alamos Manhattan project, developing the atomic bomb. [beeping]

[Olum] But all of us knew from the time we got there, we had a clearly defined goal, namely, to build a nuclear bomb. [Booth] What was the impact of Hitler, and Germany in the War on your own personal feelings on the Manhattan Project? That...we had seen what the Germans had already done in Poland, in France and Belgium and Holland and so on.. that was known. We knew the devastation even that had been caused in the Soviet Union. [Booth] Was the fact that you are a Jew, did that have an impact? [Olum] Whether I had been Jewish or not, a young American, my country at war, and that war with a an enemy like the Germans, I would certainly have wanted to work on this. That had nothing to do with any decisions [inaudible] the only thing one can say is that anyone who was Jewish and aware the treatment of the Jews in Germany, had to feel rather strong about it.

[Booth]Once the first bomb was tested, what were your feelings? [Olum] Well... ...very mixed feelings. On the one hand, when you work for two and a half years or earlier, to include what was going on at Princeton and Chicago and other places before that, there's inevitably a sense of satisfaction if you achieve what you set out to do. And also, at that time.... As we were getting towards it, we simply didn't know how it might be used to end the war. So I think, yes, there was there was satisfaction...and achievement, and I think I think that when the bomb was tested at Alamogordo, NM, the so-called Trinity Test, we all felt good good about it, but concerned, a little bit more. Then when it was dropped on Hiroshima, and we thought it might end the war,I think the first reaction was one of excitement and a sense of achievement,

and I think almost immediately followed by some kind of ... depression and worry about it. [Booth] Was it kind of 'what have we done?' and then 'My God Look what we've done. [Olum] The difference was that this was a very first one, this was the Model-T, and all of us knew from the beginning that they could get better and better, and there was a good chance the hydrogen bomb would work. So there was a sense after it had started, that the world was embarked on a course that could be a disastrous one. And I think there were I don't know how to say it... I guess there was a sense of euphoria in the beginning, when the bomb was dropped on Nagasaki... a real sense of discouragement, that never should have happened three days later. It did end the war, it probably as a result , the bomb, a smaller loss of life than would have occurred, if it had been necessary, no-one knows whether it would have been necessary, but if it had been necessary to invade Japan island by island, we

probably would have lost more lives, American lives and Japanese lives, than were lost. So, it ended the war, but I think we would all be better off if such a thing never worked. [Booth] Dr. Olum, did you know at the time that there would be the long range, devastating effects, I'm thinking now of people, twenty years later, who have leukemia, or other cancers, or terrible sicknesses because of exposures to those... [Olum] I don't think any of us knew much about that, nobody's ever done a thing like this before. It's very hard to know what the behavior of something is going to be that's never been studied before. Peter Wyden makes much of that in his book. The deaths from radiation, the amount of it were greater I think than anybody estimated, but it's hard to estimate on a thing that's never been done before, secondly, I guess nobody really realized how long range the radiation effects would be, and that people who would exposed would continue to come down with things years and years later. [Booth] In Peter Wyden's book Day One, he writes about you going to the 40th anniversary of the Los Alamos Project, last year, and taking a petition. Tell me about that petition. [Olum] I wrote a petition which really expressed our deep fear for future of humanity, that we were engaged in something now, the nuclear arms race, with a kind of insanity

because we already each had enough in the way of a way of a nuclear arsenal to destroy each other, and most of the rest of the world, maybe ten or twelve times over. There was nothing to be gained by further building, by being able to destroy each other instead fifteen times over. There was no defense known against it, and I still don't believe most of the scientists think any defense is possible, no perfect defense. You know, I keep repeating the fact Russia has 200 cities over a hundred thousand people. Two hundred bombs,

four hundred bombs if you want to use a few extra on the large cities, would destroy essentially all of Russia, you'd have plenty left over for the little ones. Now, if we shoot 12,000 nuclear bombs at the Soviet Union, 1000 of them are gonna get through no matter what, and the same the other way, and that's enough to destroy everything, and probably trigger a nuclear winter and everything else. So, the purpose of the petition was to say this, to say that there's nothing to gain by increased megatonnage, nothing to be gained by worried whether we're a tiny bit ahead in this, or they're a tiny bit ahead in that, that in fact what we ought to be doing was sitting down the Soviet Union to negotiate stopping this, because the world was at stake, and an arms race in which we worried about whose ahead was very foolish. [Booth] The recent talks held in Geneva have real ramifications for the nuclear arms race. What are you feelings? [Olum] I really don't know- they are saying words for the first time, that suggest a real desire to get rid of nuclear weapons. The trouble is that that's not enough. What's needed is a willingness to take some small risks in doing so. [Booth] Concerning the future, do you think there's a problem that some of our scientific discoveries get out of hand, and that twenty years from now we're gonna look at what we're doing today and say "We shouldn't have been fooling around with those things?"

[Olum] It's hard to say, when things are there in nature to be discovered, it's very hard to say people shouldn't discover them, because people will. [Booth] how will we succeed in ensuring the world's future? [Olum] My own feeling is that the greatest hope we have, the general confidence I have lies in people themselves, in grassroots movements. That is, there's so much recognition of what would happen to all of us in a nuclear war, and so much popular opposition, that there have been and there may grow again strong public opposition, marching in the streets, petitions gatherings, y'know, all kinds of things, in which people make it abundantly clear to their governments that this must stop. [Booth] Y'know, Jim

I can't remember when I've been so impressed with a man as I was with Dr. Olum, very accessible, fine person. [Swenson] He'd probably like an opportunity to talk about what his real job is, which is being President of the University, one of these days. [Booth] Well he has set high goals for himself and for the institution. [Swenson] Well our next story is about a professional sports franchise for Oregon, the Portland area has had professional sports franchises before, and some of them have failed, first the Storm, and then the Thunder, both ill-fated football teams, and then Timber soccer. But the Breakers of the United States Football League say their organization is going to win fan support this time. They have both better players and backers with staying power. [Cheering] [Announcer] The blitz is on, and they beat the blitz! [Swenson] The Breakers of the United States Football League, a team known for flashy moves on offense. [Announcer] Touchdown New Orleans! [Swenson] The Breakers' major moves have been off the field; first from Boston to New Orleans, then from New Orleans to Portland. [Cheering] [Swenson] When present owner Joe Canizaro arrived in

town thinking about coming to the Northwest with his team, he was given a royal welcome. [Voice] Joe Canizaro, the City of Portland, your rose, but most of important of all, Joe, is the Portland Breakers, you are under strict orders from the Queen of Rosaria not to leave Portland until you leave a franchise here with us [Cheering, laughing]. [Swenson] Canizaro, now involved in a multimillion dollar lawsuit with a Breakers' previous owners, was happy to see friendly faces and enthusiasm. The financial mess between Canizaro and the Boston owners caused by heavy losses in both Boston and New Orleans will probably not be out of the courts for years. He's looking to the Breakers, retaining only a small interest in the team. [Canizaro] I think any sports franchise oughta be locally owned because it's the local you're trying to satisfy, and I feel that important. [Swenson] Although neither one general nor several limited partners have come forward, lively

discussions of taking place behind closed doors with Portland's business community. Canizaro calls Portland a big time city, ready for Major League Football. [Voice] Nice to have you in Portland [Canizaro] The general consensus among everybody is that we could probably sell out that stadium for every one of our games, particularly quality product and a quality team on the field. [Swenson] Potential investors are already talking about the win loss column. The Breaker management admits defense is a problem, but says the team will generate some offensive excitement in the upcoming spring season at Multnomah Civic Stadium. Breaker Vice President, Jack Galmiche, says star players like Marcus Dupree and Buford Jordan will show their quality, and that the team under coach Dick Coury , is ready to win. [Voice] We have a very good, offensive team, a very exciting team. We pass a lot, play wide-open football, I think the people of Portland will be excited to see the style of play play that Dick Coury has. [Swenson] Season ticket sales are brisk at the Breaker office

and people are visiting the stadium to check out their seat locations. So far however, only the first three games look like sure sell-outs that may be due to local curiosity. Better crowds are expected when the Breakers switch to a Fall schedule in '86. Brian Feldman, Breaker ticket manager, says that TV revenues are expected to brighten the financial picture. In addition the team may get a Fall TV slot, which will not put them head-to-head with the NFL. [Voice] This TV market is larger than six NFL franchises, and that's one thing that we looked long and hard in making the decision to come here, and this is one thing that made it so pleasant for us is that we're moving up into a larger TV market. We lost the seats in the stadium y'know from Superdome to Civic Stadium, but we make it up in the TV areas. as far as Market Share. [Swenson] Also in the Breakers is a lease at Civic Stadium, which many are calling a sweetheart deal, a $1 a year rental, and a cut of concessions. Although grumbling has been heard from other sports franchises such as the Blazers, John Christensen, manager of the Coliseum

and stadium, says you can't compare apples and oranges. [Christensen] A date at the Stadium does not have as much value as a date at the Coliseum. If, for example, the Blazers didn't play on Saturday night, there is a real possibility that I would book that date for someone else to use, and would generate a certain amount of income. If the Breakers didn't play on Saturday night at the Stadium. It's a very high potential that that date would just be dark. [Swenson] Christensen adds that out of pocket expenses and Stadium staffing are also paid for by the Breakers. The Breakers organization says that despite efforts to end up in the black, the franchise is expected to lose money initially. Of the 14 USFL teams, Only Tampa Bay made a profit last year. League owners, most of whom are prepared to stick by their investments, have collectively lost somewhere between 60 and 100 million dollars. [Voice] Well I think most of the owners look upon the losses right now as an investment in the future. Currently, each of the teams in the USFL, has lost a considerable amount of money, but if you look at the value of an NFL franchise right now, most franchises are being valued at upwards of 50 to 75 million

dollars. Now, our owners could afford to lose a lot of money before would have that much invested. [Swenson] The future that USFL owners are investing in, may well be an association with the NFL. There is talk of an actual merger, expansion of the NFL to include a few new teams, a common draft, a player exchange, or common championship game. [Voice] Everyone feels that there will be a combination, if you will. What form that will take on, only time will tell the next few years. [Swenson] Clayton Herring, a staunch supporter of Breaker Football, says limited partners would make a healthy profit from a merger. [Herring] Let's say the NFL franchises somewhere between 65 and a hundred million, and I may be off. All you gotta do is put a multiplier to that, and your investment is gonna is going to increase sixfold, if it's successful. [Swenson] ?Galmy? says that Portland's TV market combined with fan support could interest the NFL,

but they would be attracted even more by an enlarged Civic Stadium or a domed facility. He says that both Governor Atiyeh and Mayor Bud Clark have agreed to push for more seating if the team succeeds. Committees of interested citizens are already meeting to discuss where a $100,000,000, 55 to 65 thousand seat domed stadium should be built to house the NFL Breakers. Canizaro said that if the dome is constructed, he'll build a hotel in Portland, and many think a dome would bring money into the community the way it has in Seattle. [Voice] If you're up there on the weekend, you can almost smell the money being spent. A lot of it is money that's coming in from outside the city, the taxis are busy, the restaurants are busy, the hotels are full. This puts a lot of money into the community. [Swenson] Wanting a dome is not bad, says Christensen, but caution is a good idea [Christensen] There's a little ego involved there, and I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be, y'know, "Gosh, we're major league, we're great." The question is

what are willing to pay for that? [Swenson] Many domes around the country are losing money. They're expensive to build, fill, and operate. Last year the King Dome lost over $400,000. However many public facilities lose money while bringing dollars into the community in a profitable trade off. If Breaker mania persists, could Portland end up with a publicly financed dome without an NFL team to attract sizeable crowds? Robert ?Ridgley? of the Exposition Recreation Commission is concerned. [?Ridgley?] Obviously, no-one Mr. Canizaro included, has the answer to the question you just asked. First of all no one knows whether the merger is going to occur to build. He has stated publicly that he's here to build the USFL team. If the merger occurs, whether Portland would be part of the merged league, no one knows. [Swenson] There have been dome proposals for Portland in the past. The defeated Delta Dome in the 60s then periodic studies and lately a surge of interest for a dome in Clackamas County. Wrigley says a task force from the tri county area should look at the whole

issue of sports facilities in relation to other public projects. One such project is a convention center which he says is greatly needed. [Wrigley] That's why I've said that I think the first thing on the agenda is to build a convention center that will promote jobs and economic development in this area. We can do the planning for the dome, we can put together the necessary arrangements for it, but I don't think we should go forward until we've got assurances that is going to be used. Certainly the opportunity to manage a major dome is exciting to me, and having a major league franchise in one is even more exciting, but I wouldn't want to see a major league dome with nothing in it. [Swenson] As the first season tickets arrive at local business, anticipation is building. Although the talk of funding a dome may sound premature, there is discussion of lottery money, general obligations bonds, or ticket taxes. Herring thinks Portlanders should be bold if they want to make it as a big league city. [Herring] We can "if and but" the thing to death. The truth of the matter is that

yesterday we didn't have a USFL football franchise, now we do, and we got it without any promises that I'm aware of that are written in blood that we have to do anything except get behind it and support it. People with vision have to look at something and say the cup isn't half empty, it's half full. That's the great American way. If you want the big reward, you gotta take the risk. [Booth] It's gonna be fun to follow the Breaker's progress, Jim. I know that early this month had some tryouts, any Portland people make the cut? [Swenson] There were 541 people that tried out for what they call the free-agent tryouts, and there were two from the Portland area that made it. Lance Mannox from Portland State University made an offensive guard position, and John Portner from Jackson High School won a line- backer position. [Booth] Well, we'll follow them with interest too. And tonight we have a story about Oregon wildlife. Not the kind you're used to seeing. It's a place where animals live just as they would in their natural habitat. It's called "Oregon Wildlife Safari" and despite the money problems that surround the foundation's existence, the animals at least are thriving.

Eileen [inaudible] Walker has the story. [Walker] This could be the Serengeti plains of East Africa or the rain forests of South-East Asia. But you could travel across the Asian and African continents and still not see a sight like this one. Here in Winston, Oregon. [Hart] It's really a very gentle creature, the second largest land animal in the world. [Walker] It's not every day you come across a man who could walk right up and greet five and a half

tons of rhinoceros. The gentle man who can hand feed these rare white rhinos is 62 year old Frank Hart, the founder and the director of Oregon's wildlife Safari. Good luck. Running a wildlife park, Frank Hart will tell you, is a job you have to like. Yes I do like the Cadillac and the Mercedes Benz Never taken to country clubs and all that stuff. Not long ago Oregonians would have considered Frank Hart himself a member of a dangerous species -- a successful Los Angeles real estate developer. But that was a dozen years ago, before 15 trips to Africa convinced him some rare and beautiful animals might disappear from the Earth forever, unless something was done. It's really, truly frightening. And when those animals are gone, they can't be

replaced. They can't- we can't bring them back. And I would like to- well I feel Americans should support the organizations that are actually doing something, and not just hiring a bunch of lobbyists from Washington and running a lot of newspaper and magazine ads for more money, which they spend on more people to do more lobbying, to run more ads, to, you know... When are they going to start to do something about wildlife? Like we're doing here. We have shown the ability to do something about it. And therefore we're more deserving of public support. Twelve years ago Hart convinced his Los Angeles partners to put the firm's money where his convictions were. They bought up 600 acres in part of southern Oregon's Rogue Valley, 8 miles from the nearest city, and over 200 miles from Portland. The plan called for a resort, complete with condominiums and profit. But when it became clear that the animals appreciated the remote location more than the people did, those plans had to be changed again. The money problems that have plagued the park ever since

led to a decision four years ago to turn the park into a nonprofit federation. That's a decision Hart says he doesn't regret. And we're making 150,000 people a year more aware of the the problem. And that's the part that I think is important -- public education. Increasing and (inaudible) people's understanding of what's going- happening to the wild critters that live in Oregon. (Advertiser's voice): Drive into adventure through Wildlife Safari. Take an exciting look at Africa, Asia, Australia, and South America. Over 650 animals in their natural...But getting the word out to those that have never visited takes money. About 75 percent of the park's visitors are Oregonians. So ad dollars are spent state-wide. (Advertiser's voice): Wildlife Safari, in Winston, by Roseburg. The park itself gets along on a relatively small budget. About a million dollars a year. Compare that to about to about five-and-a-half million dollars a year for the Washington Park Zoo with its 540 animals. The Safari budget takes into account the voracious appetites of over 650

animals, all of whom eat just as much in the off season. Hart and his staff have to stretch Every dollar, so every resource is used to attract attention, including those irresistible animals. The wildlife cause is becoming famous for its cheetah breeding program. In fact, that program is now the second largest in the entire world. Even tourists who come here and don't know that are familiar with this space.This is Khayyam, and she's the goodwill ambassador around here. Laurie Marker may be the official tracker of cheetah breeding lines in the U.S. And she may head the safari's breeding program. But to those who have seen her on television, she's just the lady with the cheetah. I love to take her to school. And you can show a picture or a movie or a slide show. But it's not going to be the same as meeting this beautiful animal and having her lick their hands or purr to them and say this animal is endangered, and there's only 5,000 of these animals left in the world. They could be left in the world

gone within our lifetime. ? Not all the species you see here are endangered. But endangered or not, the overriding idea behind the park remains the same. Show these animals up close by caging the people instead, and the good folks and their children will want to save these animals, too. And if you need to use some old fashioned showbiz to focus public attention on the plight of these animals, you call on someone like The Great ?Barocini? and his amazing cat.. Nearly all Americans are reasonable in their desire that within the limits of what we can afford, that we're going to do something about wildlife conservation. Three Americans Frank Hart counted on were the members of the Douglas County

Commission.The park needed a $400,000 loan to help pay off some old debt. The one commissioner who dragged his feet on the idea had a lot of public explaining to do before switching his vote his vote to yes. None of us want to see Wildlife Safari perish and all of us recognize... With the help of the county loan and others, Frank Hart's hopes are now bigger than ever. There's a 10 year expansion plan in the works to accommodate more people and, of course, more of Frank Hart's little critters. I would imagine we would have ?15?50? more species than we have now; we carry around 95 to 100 species of animals. But it's not enough just to have one or two of these species. We want to have a herd, a group of them that are living and interacting such as they do in the wild. And that takes longer, it takes, with each species, several years to achieve your goal. But, that's the only way that they're going to survive. Extinction is forever. And once they're gone, there's no way we're going to get them back. And to lose an animal like a cheetah, the

fastest of all the land animals, or perhaps the tiger, the most beautiful animal on the face of our earth, or an elephant, the largest of all the animals that roam the earth... I think that that would be such a shame. I'd hope my great great grandchildren will be as fortunate as I am to be able to know some of the animals that I've had the opportunity of knowing. As the man says, you have to love the work. We may not ever make a million dollars a year, but then we're doing something kind of special. Well, the winter months are a wonderful time to visit the grounds because the animals are very active and more visible. According to Lori Marker of Wildlife Safari, the park is open daily, Jim, so go visit. The next time on Front Street Weekly, a special report. I didn't know what to do or who to turn to, and the last thing in the world I wanted to do was to go to Family Services. or something like that, because you feel like only the lowest people do that. There are more poor people in Oregon than ever before in the history of this state. And that is a direct result of both the economy, on the one hand, as well as government cutbacks, on the other. Me and my husband traveled the coast up here, up and down, all the way from Portland, Medford,

in all the coastal areas trying to find work. That's next week, a look at poverty in Oregon. We call the program Those Left Behind. And that's all we have on Front Street Weekly tonight. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week.