The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show when it comes to politics. It's never a monotonous moment here in Massachusetts and our politicians have done right by Bay Staters providing theater worthy of Broadway. We've seen Tim Cahill taking on attack ads Charlie Baker give his campaign manager the big heave ho. Opponents Patrick and Baker straining to spin their mega-millionaire existences into the stuff of every man scenarios. Meanwhile a transgendered anti-discrimination bill is illuminating where the candidates stand on civil rights and we haven't even mentioned the latest polls or the congressional seats at play. This hour we take on the governor's race and all other manner of political movings and shakings on Beacon Hill. From there it's on to Capitol Hill with New Yorker editor David Remnick and his new book The Bridge The Life and Rise of Barack Obama. Up next from local politics to the making of a political life. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying the federal government is

ratcheting up its role in the cleanup of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. NPR's Joel Snyder reports that the Obama administration is now sending three top officials to the Gulf Coast tomorrow. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says it's a spill of national significance. What that means is that we can now draw down assets from across the country other coastal areas by way of example that we will have a centralized communications because the spill is now across in different regions. No politician no says administration officials are discussing how the Defense Department can help. Earlier on in DC's Today show BP chief operating officer said he would welcome the military self to politics now and two other top Obama administration officials are due to travel to the Gulf Coast to coordinate cleanup efforts and meet with BP officials. She says she'll push BP to engage in the strongest possible response effort trial Snyder. NPR News Washington. Rescuers in western Kentucky may have located

one of the two miners trapped underground since yesterday when the roof collapsed. Tim Miller spokesman for the United Mine Workers says the two workers at the tiki mine are feared dead. They had a miner operator about and also. I can assume the matter helper that we're missing and presumed to be under the Rockwell state records reveal the Webster County coal mine has a history of safety violations. President Obama recently ordered a federal review of red flag mines across the country after 29 miners were killed in West Virginia. It was one of the deadliest mining disasters in decades. President Obama is paying tribute today to the late Dr. Dorothy Height an influential figure in the Civil Rights Movement speaking to hundreds of mourners in the Washington National Cathedral this morning the president spoke of heights decades of commitment to equality. He also said height made sure to keep in touch regularly in the White House. She was ready.

She came by not once not twice. One taps to stop by the way. Died last week at the age of ninety eight. Turning to the latest numbers from the Labor Department the Labor Department's reporting 11000 fewer first time applications for unemployment benefits last week. That was somewhat of a good drop analysts were expecting a bigger decline indicating that even though the job market is improving progress is happening very slowly. At last check on Wall Street the Dow Jones industrial average up more than 140 points at eleven thousand one hundred eighty seven Nasdaq also improving up thirty six points at two thousand five hundred eight S&P 500 up 16 now at 1208 This is NPR News. Pakistan Taliban chief Masood is now believed to have survived a U.S. drone missile attack earlier this year.

But NPR's Julie McCarthy reports from Islamabad he's no longer thought to be the unchallenged leader of the militant group. A senior Pakistani intelligence official speaking on condition of anonymity said that Hakimullah Masoud has beat enormous odds. It's a miracle anyone could have survived the attack he said adding the moola did it Hakimullah Masoud has escaped it would be a setback for the CIA. The agency intensified efforts to kill the brash young Taliban leader after he appeared in a video alongside in al Qaeda operative who killed seven CIA agents at a base in Afghanistan in late December. The Pakistani intelligence official said while Masood has survived he has been sidelined. Julie McCarthy NPR News Islamabad. The Dutch and British conglomerate Unilever reports huge first quarter profits edging stocks up in morning trading. Teri Schultz reports it's the fourth consecutive quarter of strong growth for the group whose best known products include Lipton tea Ben and Jerrys and Dove soap Unilever cut prices last year and has seen a better than 4 percent increase in sales since

January. Its overall volume growth was 7.6 percent the most dramatic figure though is the 32 percent jump in earnings for the quarter. Those sales in Western Europe were sluggish just 0.2 percent a push into emerging markets has paid off for the company with sales improving by more than 10 percent in Latin America the better than expected results helped to boost European food and beverage sector stocks. 1.4 percent in early trading. For NPR News I'm Teri Schultz in Brussels. And I'm Lakshmi saying NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from Kauffman the foundation of entrepreneurship supporting the entrepreneurs movement. Learn more at. Build a stronger America. Dot com. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. It's never a dull moment in Massachusetts when it comes to politics from the governor's race to the

legislative movings and shakings. We're discussing it all with our contributors Kelly Bates and Marvin Vinay. Kelly Bates is the executive director of the access strategies fund. Marvin Benet is the executive director of the Massachusetts black and Latino Democratic Legislative Caucus. Kelly Bates and Marvin Benet welcome good to be back. Good to see you. There is so much going on let's start with the bill that was proposed by Representative Jeffrey Parry which was you know colloquially called a crackdown on undocumented workers some benefits that would be accrued to them as he says otherwise and that get. Voted out voted down. Now I should mention that the speaker said Robert DiLeo said he didn't like these kinds of measures being added to the budget bill. So to some degree he was not supportive of that because it was added to the budget bill or at least that's what he said. But for other people a lot of folks pretty felt pretty strongly about it. KELLY Well this is always a hot button issue every budget year there's always

legislation and budgets offered around whether or not there are benefits extended to immigrants of any background whether they're undocumented or have certain legal paperwork and particularly against the backdrop of what's happening in Arizona right now and a lot of the anti-immigrant sentiment you're going to see more of this coming into play. And I think the larger question is how do you in a very rational way have this kind of conversation because it's easy to just say listen we don't want to give anything to immigrants but you have people who are here legally and working and you have people who may be undocumented but if they don't have access to public health services then we have illness throughout our communities. So it's a very complex situation. But I think we can expect more of this and it's going to get more heated. And the same measure was introduced last time around and there was a lot more opposition whereas this time there was a lot less opposition. So this is going to be in the field in the battle for a while. Marvin a lot of people looked at this bill and said this does not seem to be you know for lack of a better expression hate mongering bill.

This this feels to me to be reasonable. Do you agree with that. No I don't think that it's reasonable I think what was done is very similar to what Kelly has already said. You know this was an attempt to capitalize on this recent change out there in Arizona but the unfortunate part about it is that here it is again. If we were to pass this bill we could see a drastic change in our treatment of immigrants that are that are in this city in particular state particular and we have a number of them and I think that if we were to become exclusive excluding them we could create some sort of challenges that would be not just financial but they might also be a moral challenge for those members who are trying to literally just raise a family and live the American dream. I don't think this is the end of this though. I mean this was as I said speaker DiLeo said he didn't want to see any of this kind of stuff attached to the budget bill. So there's nothing to stop representative Perry from reintroducing this on its own right now he will reintroduce it he will reintroduce it.

He will alter the language and he will make it to become you know kind of slide it in there you know in depending on the ruling. If he decides that he wants to get it pushed through an informal session. If that is possible he could potentially do that. So I think it's just a matter of being attentive to how the bills are going to be written because again language if it's not read it can be over overlooked and then it could slide straight through what they did in this case as they put it into a study which sometimes they actually really do studies the legislature and look at policy issues but a lot of time it means it's sort of dead so they could keep doing that with some of this legislation. But what you see in bad economies I've seen it now as somebody who's lobbied in good economies and bad economies for different interests. When there's a bad economy budget times are very difficult there's often a lot of scapegoating and a lot of you know where can we kind of deal with this issue of the economy by by removing benefits from people. It was welfare mothers at one time it was immigrants at another time it's always like who is the next

group that we're going to try to scapegoat and separate off as different from the rest and I think it's really problematic because the bottom line is there are human beings that are suffering and they're working here and they have needs. But in times like this they don't matter. Yet we have them you know working in various places they may be professors at universities they bring skilled labor. That's different too and then we want them. Then we support them. So I think we'll see more of this and I think we'll see you know more kind of behind the scenes action as well. And I think the interesting thing about it is is that if you look at the route the day laborers at the State House variance. Oh interesting. So you're not just unpacking the outside. You're a packing home as well. And I think that if we're not mining for these sort of tactics everyone's not attended to it. We could see a change similar to Arizona now. No I don't think it will never. I don't think we will ever get to that point that Arizona has that right now but you

can see a slight change that could alter some of the benefits if not taken seriously by the other members of the house. Because it's a close vote because Representative Perry is running for office. This doesn't hurt him right. No it's a win for him. Yeah it's a win for him. I mean this is a very much a Republican agenda is to push these kind of issues. So I think he'll continue to run on that and so will other Republicans. You know one thing that's so fascinating about our race is right now whether it's at the particular at the gubernatorial level or otherwise a lot of the issues that are playing out in these campaigns are many of the issues that are playing out nationally. Immigration reform you know the economy health care far health care reform and you know Massachusetts is in play and we're a fascinating state because we're kind of ahead of the game on looking at these issues. So I think we're just going to see a lot more debate on these but I think that the controversy that happens is that the constituency is are you dealing with Wall Street are you dealing with Main Street. And if your focus is too much on Wall Street then I'm concerned about you leaving my main street.

So we have to make sure that you know as as as as politicians are out here pushing their agendas. They should be mindful that the constituent in which you are looking to represent has to understand the issue in which you are pushing. If they're incompetent they're not able to comprehend the issue. Then you can anticipate that they're going to be able to support you in your agenda because they could just feel disconnected from it. So we can't deal too much on a national scale until we take care of home if home is secured then we have a better chance of infusing some of these national issues. They are prevalent and they are out there and probably viewed more than some of the local issues. But the people on the ground in which you're looking to target for voting are those who are not familiar with the some of those cases. Well let's talk about homeless jump into this gubernatorial race which just all kinds of issues keep popping up. I think I guess to put it in a context the latest polls have neck and neck kind of well depending

on which poll let me just say it could be Charlie Baker and Governor Deval Patrick. But there was a poll by the I think New England Western Forum that had Tim Calle number two who writes I think it has upset a lot of people and much to his surprise anyway Tim Cahill got a negative ad focused on him by the Republican Governors Association let let the listeners hear that. Beacon Hills a mess. Tim Cahill is making it worse with Cahill running the lottery. Costs have skyrocketed and he spent a million bucks on office renovations at the pension fund. Cahill lost billions while passing out bonuses to his staff. Cahill pocketed thousands from campaign donors whose cronies got millions in state contracts. Tim Cahill reckless with our money. Massachusetts has already lost four years. We can't afford to lose any more. Why the focus on Tim. You know I made one comment on the poll of the process and then I'll go to the substance but the

process they also miss that Jill Steins running as a green rainbow party candidate and Grace Ross is running as governor as a Democrat. Whatever you think about those candidates Another thing but I have problem with polls who completely exclude candidates that need to be in the debate on the substance of the poll. You know I don't know how much we can take away from this you got a figure came in at 29 percent and Baker came in I believe it 27 percent there's about 2 percent difference there. The margin of error in these polls are 4 percent or so anyway. And this. Sample if I recall happened before the Republican convention so I'm not sure how much credibility you have to give to this what we can say. And I've been saying all along to people is Cahill is somebody to watch because this guy is taking advantage of the streak that you know Scott Brown had around being the independent voice and he's going to ride this out. Now Baker though and his people and now the Republican Governors Association are going to put as much money into attacking him because they are nervous because he's creeping into his base. You know I think they have really nervous if they had an ad directed at. Well here's the interesting thing.

I think that the Governors Association is nervous but I don't think Baker is nervous. Oh OK. I think the governors association is nervous because they they're not they're not fully. They're not fully comfortable with the way Baker's campaign is running. So their approach is if we can impact it from a different angle it doesn't take the heat away from Baker but when in fact it does is it gives a voice to strong arms the voter if you will. Now Cahill is going to ride this because he can easily say well clearly I'm doing something well. And it does not mean he's doing something well they're just trying to knock him out of the box. But I firmly believe that Baker has already prescribed that he is in need of uplifting himself he thought. I believe he really had this understanding that after the Republican convention he did so resoundingly well that now he can just coast his way in.

But you have this you have this side piece that's coming up behind you called Tim Cahill that says listen I am the Republican and the Independent. I'm strong enough to hold up both parties. Watch me as I watch me as I carry this forward to misleading the people because he's telling you I understand he's going from this premise on talk about this later but the whole premise of their multimillionaires and I'm not. So he sent his maker and dry PATRICK So he has already cited that if he goes the Scott Brown way there's no way the baker can do it if he if he jumps on it early. Baker is not a Scott Brown Baker doesn't he doesn't communicate like Scott Brown. He doesn't handle his fiscal responsibility like Scott Brown. There's year two total different individuals whereas Tim Cahill is more closely or if you look at them in their review I think that they have some similarities too. I have to say that Margery Eagan has in the Herald today has a column which says

exactly that she calls it Tim Cahill's race strategy. Scott brown nosing and she goes through and points out all of the similarities of Tim's. Which is really based on Scott Brown's looking very much like it. Tim said that's just a coincidence but when you say that Alex Scott Brown did it Scott Brown had an advertisement that looked a lot like John F. Kennedy's advertisement. And you know the public bought it. Yeah OK. All right well more of this when we come back after the break. I'm Kelly Crossley We're talking politics with Kelly Bates and Marvin Benet. Kelly Bates is the executive director of the access strategies fund. Marvin Vinay is the executive director of the Massachusetts black and Latino Democratic Legislative Caucus. We'll be back after this break stay with us. But the.

Support for WGBH comes from you and from Eastern Mountain Sports celebrating the grand opening of its newest store at Hingham shipyard from April 30th through May 2nd Eastern Mountain Sports. Sharing their passion for the outdoors with adventure minded New Englanders. Since 1967 and from the New England mobile book fair in Newton. For 53 years New England's independent bookstore. The New England mobile book fair find them online at any book fair dot com. That's an e-book fair dot com and from Brussels a family gardening tradition for over 130 years flowers plants trees shrubs locally made gift specialties and more. Russell's garden center Route 20 in Waveland for hours and information. Russell's garden center dot com. Scott Simon here inviting you to join me and Diane Rheem on a two week Mediterranean journey will depart for Greece on July 26 and together will visit ancient wonders from Athens to

Capri and take some time to explore Sicily. One of the great crossroads of civilization. Diane and I are looking forward to this voyage of discovery into lively discussions with public radio listeners. So please join us. I'm hoping to find the girlie only for dates and registration online at WGBH dot org slash learning tours. Because your weekends are less business and more pleasure than you eighty nine point seven has a lineup of shows that feed the other side of your brain and the next morning when I would walk to the subway as the sun was coming up I'd love knowing that everybody else on the street was dragging themselves to their jobs and I was done for the day. This is Bob Edwards weekend along with a Celtic soldier now starting at three and leading you right up to A Prairie Home Companion at six. It's the new eighty nine point seven. WGBH. The annual WGBH spring auction is underway with new items appearing in the closing every day and every bed supports the WGBH program that you depend on visit auction dot WGBH dot org.

I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Cali Crossley Show we're talking local politics with Kelly Bates and Marvin Benet. Kelly Bates is the executive director of the access strategies fund. Marvin Benet is the executive director of the Massachusetts black and Latino Democratic Legislative Caucus and they're both contributors to this show. Now before the break we're talking about Tim Cahill's added his. OK. Copying Scott Brown's ad right. But I was saying in the break listeners that hey I remember Tim Cahill's impact he made with his little daughter when he ran for his Treasurer that so we can't laugh at these things because it could be extremely effective. No I don't think it's funny. I think it's smart. I think it's quite sure T.J. because you want your voter and your listeners out there to feel connected to you. That's what Scott Brown was able to do. I think we spoke about this a few visits ago we talked about the one thing you know about Scott Brown. He drove a pickup truck and it had over 200000 miles on it.

If you didn't know anything else. So who if there was anyone out there who had an old truck or you know a vehicle that was passed five years or maybe 10 years. Then you were going to connect with Scott Brown because you just felt like well he understands that I can't pay for this mechanical problem I have this oil change you know. So I mean candidates are smart they want to relate and they want to feel like they get there they're getting across as the common person. That's their goal. Yeah well I want to speak to that point because what this is pointing out is people don't feel that Governor Patrick I believe it although he's an excellent order they don't necessarily are not sure if he's able to really make that. He's good with speeches but that kind of on the ground connection I don't know I think that Tim Cahill and I also think Grace Ross is benefiting from is there on the ground and they're talking to people and they're there you know portraying themselves as sort of the average person and they both have you know unique backgrounds in that way and people are relating to that and they're having to work harder

because they don't have the same name recognition as an incumbent or even Baker to some degree OK. So I think you know I personally I think he's very good speaker. I think he's very personable in some rooms but I think he's still seen as and more and more people are starting to see the corporate attorney whereas I think Cahill and Grace Ross and the others are positioning themselves as I am more of the average person and that's very interesting. Well see there's some government rhetoric is really the one who's benefiting from this little spat between the Cahill and the Republican Governors Association and a sensibly BAKER Absolutely he can take a step back and not have to assert himself right now it's too early for him to have to push himself and exert all the energy. But I want to go back to the point the killing me I don't know if I agree with the fact that the governor doesn't know how to could mix with the average citizen. I've witnessed this man go out and roll up his sleeves and have no problem not just walking the street but picking up dirt you know cleaning cleaning

yards with. And I've been I can tell you that from an average citizens perspective they're looking at him and they're saying wow he has the audacity to do that when he doesn't have to because he can afford for someone else to do it for him. And I think the one thing about history it always speaks if you look at the the picture of him looking at his father's image at Berkeley you can see in his eyes in the Whoever took that photo did an excellent job of capturing this. You can see in his eyes the history of his life the struggle the pain of dealing with his father and his father's departure and how that made him who he is today. And I think that right there that very pain is exactly what is a connecting point but that's not who he is right now and let's just bring him to you. You know I don't think I don't think I don't think that just because you gain some sort of stature in you you've raised yourself up to be a

professional that you lose who you really are. But I want to talk about the money that. Right that's what I was getting to is that what about this little spat between Baker and Patrick's organizers trying to suggest that either want both of them that there's they're going back and forth with each other saying that that one's a millionaire No you're a millionaire and where the regular I mean voters are looking at this they're very concerned across the aisles. OK. About the extent of corporate money in politics and the extent of how many people have their own personal money and big connections to big money. And what we know about Charlie Baker The guy comes out of resources. He ran Harvard Vanguard went to Harvard. Grew up in Needham. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that but you know he comes with a set of privileges that not everybody has. Same thing Governor Patrick didn't grow up that way. Very hard life and actually had to you know really struggle go is going on a blue streak but the guy's a corporate lawyer he was paid by Coca-Cola big salary big bonuses you know beyond anything I did and I

think you know you there's news or not. These guys you know you went and then you look at someone like a Grace Ross or Jill Stein or it is very difficult to raise money when you can't pull it out of your pocket and they don't get the same media airtime they don't get the same respect you wouldn't even know they exist out there. But it wasn't for the disease. But I think it is systemic. We should have public funding of elections in this but we don't but we should. It's not up to us as a democracy to have millionaires necessarily running our government they should be in the process. I don't think I don't know you have heard of this back and forth between these campaigns of trying to position themselves as regular people when both of them are millionaires What's the impact. I mean I think it's I think it's a worthless topic. First of all I mean what is the purpose behind we're not going to gain any ground from it. Well I didn't say it was. I'm not I'm not putting a value thing on it whether it's a worthless topic or not I'm just saying what's the impact because we know small little things have carried themselves on through people to get hacked. Is that what that essentially says to the average person who is middle class and has a middle class income.

Why bother running and showing my perspective and being in politics is there's no way I can win I can't raise that money. I can't get those resources. You know I'm a connected person. OK Kelly Bates is around a lot of different political network circles if I ran for office tomorrow. Absolutely I may not be a millionaire but I could raise that money. Most people can't. And there are some people who are not millionaires who. We could run this legislature and their government better than a lot of people. So I think it's a systemic problem I'm not saying it's their fault but I do think we need to have something in place where the average person can raise money and get matches and get public funding so they can run to. You can't buy ad time with no money. You can hire campaign managers with no money. Tim calles taking his thing on to the Web and he's saying I'm the only middle class guy here. He's right. I mean he's right. But again at the end of the day does it mean that just because you have the financial resources that you are the most appropriate for office.

OK well here's what all this means I think I think in this in this race where things are very close the ping on which poll you look at that people are trying to find something to distinguish themselves at this point. I think it's too early. Well I know but I then I I want to transition to this transgender Bill if you will and because I think these and I'm not saying this is a small issue but these issues that might not have been front and center now become front and center if you're trying to distinguish yourselves and move up from that 2 percent or 3 percent difference that Kelly articulated before. So we have a situation now where this transgender Bill commonly known as the bathroom bill is out there and Charlie Baker came out strong after the Republican convention saying I'm not for it. Even though his running mate is and is a sponsor of the bill. Don't you think there's something wrong with him. Well I'm just saying and Governor Patrick has said he is. Sell what where I want to know what the impact is going to be. What are you hearing on the ground there anything responded there is going to be a tremendous impact especially the LGBT community. That community is going to go with the candidate that supports

their rights you know. And I mean I think they're not a big enough group on the other side of people who say Charlie Baker is right. I don't think so because I think the LGBT community has established itself to the extent that it is a force. In fact it drives a number of the the races in will drive a number of the races coming up in the fall. That community is solid. They're well organized. They are a machine. They have the financial backing and they will push. And if their agenda is being received they will push behind that candidate. You will see a tremendous shift right there on this bill alone. Throughout all three camps. Well let me ask you throw something else out here. You guys also keep your ear to the ground with communities of color. This is not a bill that a lot of communities of color might support. So can it wash itself out if you will. Well I think let me correct one assumption I think and I am a person of color I don't think I think the stereotype the commune's of color are

discriminatory against gays is is that it's a stereotype there's a lot of diversity in our community we have gay lesbian bisexual transgendered members of committees of color. So I wouldn't go that far I do think within any community there is bias and I think it has shown itself in the gay marriage debate. It shows itself with the transgendered bill. I don't know if that will translate into voter power and people coming up to the statehouse to oppose I haven't quite seen the opposition very strong on this. But I do think it is one of those questions of how are these candidates going to separate themselves. I think Deval Patrick Grace Ross Joel Stein. If your Green Party if you're going to support that bill. OK. I think the Republican Party and certainly Cahill have said they're not. And so that is a distinguishing issue. I also think looking at the economy and education and how they frame these issues and those distinctions are going to be very very pivotal and perhaps even immigration even though again to your point Marvin It really is a federal issue it does impact state level and local politics so I think we'll start to see voters looking at.

Those distinctions among the candidates but do you think Marvin that Charlie Baker is really safe because the guy that he chose to run with him is gay and is a sponsor of this bill. That's why you're not safe. Oh but what I'm saying but. But he could say listen I oppose it you know still but I still have respect for this guy. Yes. Let's look at it from this perspective. If his running mate decides you're not pushing a strong enough agenda for my community I'm stepping out of this race that's going to be a blow. Well had to happen though. But he can OK in a cave because there's no way that I don't care what office you're giving me. If this is who I am and you're not protecting my rights how can I endorse your efforts or be a part of your machine if you will to get an agenda move for when this is something I live with every single day. So I think his his he is a candidate or partner or whatnot Misa look

himself in the mirror and ask this question to himself whether or not he believes in Baker's campaign because he's sending a mixed message to the community in which he's a part of. That's where he's going to become calm and you know Cali even if he didn't step aside which which could happen right. It can cause dissension behind the scenes in the campaign. It can cause that sort of lack of trust between you know. That the two candidates that you know we don't get to see may be affecting the backdrop of the campaign. But then again there are often been tickets where people disagree with each other on issues they don't agree on every issue but the question is Marvin raised is how personal is personal. And we don't know how this is playing out. OK. And if he goes to and I leave you this last point. If they were successful if they were successful in winning how could he stand in the picture. Let's look at this from an image standpoint. How can he stand in the picture behind the governor signing to veto this legislation.

I don't know. We'll see. I'm just sayin. Some people say it gives them cover that's why I had to ask the question so we're putting it out there. I'm talking with Kelly Bates and Marvin Benet about local politics. Got to get you guys take on the gentleman who is jumped into the Stephen Lynch Razorback tell us Andrea what do you think well you know I've mentioned on the air before I am. In the District Matt doesn't actually know I don't know him well. Harmony will if listeners might remember wanted to challenge Lynch over his health care vote. She decided ultimately not to run. Now Mack D'Alesandro has put his hat into the ring. Very impressive guy younger guy from Milton. Very good background he's been a political director for SEIU Local labor union. He's worked with Greater Boston Legal Services very much a champion of you know people who are struggling and he's a progressive Democrat. Lynch is not seen as progressive or conserve. And I think that he's making that distinction right from the get go I think the challenge for him is he's got to get his signatures in on Tuesday and he started late. He is a very very I think could be a good

contender. It could be a good race if he gets those signatures Well if he is wise and if you're listening. I would talk to Harmony wools people because they were very good at organizing to get her signatures. If you get that team with yours you will meet the Tuesday deadline because right now we're looking for and what I'm listening hearing from the people they meet someone who's going to be a champion for their rights in Washington and right now with this health care bill going the way it went in Steve Lynch going against it. He has just challenged a very cool situ ACA which he has served over the last I don't know how many cycles off him but I think I think if Max would make a movement he needs to connect with harmony with the group and in fact I think Harmony is leading the signature Cohen on this. OK so he's got some good background but it will be very very interesting to see. I think you make it happen. I think you know I think you can make an impact and I think what he's also going to bring

to the table is if they ever host a debate he's going to bring to the table a strong younger progressive agenda which is what we've not seen in some time in Washington specifically out of this state. Now this is a race to watch I believe there's an independent Republican and you've got macula Sondra as a possible player. I think the word is out for when she knows that you know I don't know if she can protect AC this time but like he's going to he's going to get challengers now race after race and he's got to be on notice. Let's talk after Tuesday. Well my question is a lot of people lined up behind Lynch I mean there was a lot of opposition in its community but there were other people who said right good for you you opposed health care. So he's got some support there and I'm wondering if there is another anti-incumbent fever even if going against a Democrat because there's plenty of anti democratic anti-incumbent fever going against some Republicans in other

parts of the country but I wonder if that a play out here. I think it will. I think it will I think it will pull a strong move because in that area in particular there's been a lot of transition and there's going to be a lot of transition on the local the state side. There's transition with those who are leaving their seats those who are moving pursuing other endeavors. We are looking at right now an opportunity where you can actually pick up a seat that once would have not been available to you some five years ago. Even some two years ago because it was that strong of a net. And I think right now people are vulnerable and I think they're looking for the candidate that matches close to what their views are. So I think this if you're going to if you're going to win a seat this is the year to do it. But name recognition. That being said I agree with that assessment wholeheartedly that being said name recognition recognition is makes a difference and Steven Lynch has been around a long time and he is well known. And you know it is like the Steve Murphy of the congressional.

He's out there. I mean not only is he is name is no he's out there right I mean he's not somewhere where you can't find him so that that has to help to know whether you like it or not you know. I mean it's not it's not for me to like him I think. I think personally I just believe that at this juncture in time we are looking at opportunity for those who are seeking a new seat to actually have their strongest opportunity to get it now and then they've had it some time before. So I think although Steve Lynch has been available Steve Lynch might not be your guy for many people. OK. Well. Great discussion. We'll have you back because there's this stuff just keeps ramping up as we get in the summer. I think it's going to be real hot. So thank you Kelly Bates and Marvin Vinay for joining us. We've been talking politics with Kelly Bates the executive director of the access strategies fund. And Marvin Benet the executive director of the Massachusetts black and Latino Democratic Legislative Caucus. Coming up we're moving from Beacon Hill to Capitol Hill with New Yorker editor David Remnick and his. New book The Bridge The

Life and Rise of Barack Obama. We'll be back after this break. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Eastern Mountain Sports celebrating the grand opening of its newest store at Hingham shipyard from April 30th through May 2nd Eastern Mountain Sports. Sharing their passion for the outdoors with adventure minded New Englanders. Since 1967. And from the Boston Pops kicking off the one hundred twenty fifth season with an opening night celebration May 4th featuring Doc Severinsen Michael Chertoff and wicked and Glee star Idina Menzel. 8 8 8 2 6 6 12 hundred. And from Newberry court overlooking the submarine river in Concord Mass. A full service residential community for persons over the age of 62. You can

learn more at Newbury CT dot work at Deaconess abundant life community. The new eighty nine point seven has a whole new weekend line up with programs to match your down time. I loved being up with the rest of the world when sleeping. This is WAIT WAIT DON'T TELL ME the NPR news quiz and the favorites that make your weekend special. I still hear too much with it. Health explosion Saturday afternoon stopping at 3 and continuing right through to A Prairie Home Companion at 6. It's a formula weekend here on the new eighty nine point seven. WGBH. At. The annual WGBH spring auction is under way. There's an auction dot WGBH dot org to bid on hundreds of great deals. Red Sox tickets form a restaurant gift certificates one of a kind getaways new items appearing in closing every day. Don't miss out. Visit auction at WGBH dot org.

You're listening to eighty nine point seven. WGBH Boston NPR station for depth and understanding with the world and all things considered the new eighty nine point seven WGBH. It's been a long time coming but tonight because of what we did on this day. In this election. At this defining moment change has come to America. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show that is President Obama in Chicago addressing a crowd of supporters after winning the presidential election. Joining us to talk about how Obama got to that historic place is David Remnick David Remnick is the editor of The New Yorker and a Pulitzer Prize winning author. His latest book is The Bridge The Life and Rise of Barack Obama. David welcome. Thanks for having me. Now I think a lot of people think that you title the book The Bridge because you were

using it as a metaphor for Barack Obama himself as some kind of bridge to the next generation to from this point to that point. But actually it has a more literal meaning and I thought you should explain that. Well the literal meaning is the Edmund Pettus Bridge it's a real bridge it's a real place in Selma Alabama. And the book begins with the scene of Obama going to Selma. Not long after he announced for the presidency and giving a really important speech at a commemoration of the events known as Bloody Sunday commemorating the clash in 1965 when Alabama state troopers and local police and vigilantes set upon civil rights demonstrators including John Lewis a great congressman from Georgia. And of course a week later was the great march the successful march from Selma to Montgomery so. Obama announced his presidency by speaking to the whole nation as anybody would. He went to Selma to make a very direct address to the African-American community because you remember and maybe it's hard to remember at this point he didn't have that vote in

his pocket by any stretch of the imagination the Clintons were probably the favorites there. And you know as your previous guests were talking about the African-American community doesn't vote as a block anymore than anybody else. It's diverse is different strands of politics different income levels different points of view and also a lot of black folks have seen symbolic races before by now it seems surely chosen they'd seen other things. Jesse Jackson Jesse Jackson I'm not so sure was symbolic right. This is not something we are in a transition is no Barack Obama without Jesse right. That's exactly right. And so that's that's the bridge. OK. Do you who did you think of President Obama was before you wrote the book and who do you think he is now. That's a great question. I have to say I didn't think he'd win when I was the first time I ever heard his name. I was late to it. It was in the 2004 Senate race I never heard about him in his congressional race which he lost badly in 2000 and certainly not as a state senator. Most people don't know their own state senators. The first time I heard of him was most as

most people was when he started running for Senate in Illinois and like a kind of good you know skeptical journalist that I am I heard the name Barack Hussein Obama. Right. And the notion that he's going to become a national politician you know good luck to him he sounds like a terrific guy. But good luck and you know it's funny along the way. Political consultants who have come into his orbit have even suggest that he change his name to me thank God he didn't. But they even made pressed him to do that in the wake of 9/11 obviously. But in terms of who he is and who I thought he was I have to say I took his his book very seriously and obviously that's a challenge for anybody writing a biography as opposed to you have to look at the memoir. His book Dreams From My Father That's right. And that book is A I think it's a terrific book in many ways it's a book about identity and the degree to which I identity can be pursued and chosen as well as given that that's to me a big theme in that book. It's not a book about politics. It's not a book about the rise of a politician the book ends when he gets married. Like you know Greek comedy or

Elizabeth the comedy ends with a marriage ceremony it ends with somebody in church it ends with somebody who's found himself. But it precedes his public life. And I have to say a lot of what I found fascinating about Obama was Obama the Paul Obama the idealist but also somebody who learns how to be a politician. You don't just get up at the convention in Boston in 2004 make a speech like that any more than John Coltrane got up and played a 15 minute solo on my favorite things without ever having picked up a saxophone before. It takes years and years and years of political practice in churches and. On all kinds of stages and so I learned and I try to portray in this book The Making of an American politician and how it crisscrosses with currents of American history and African-American history. The word that is used by most critics of your book is exhaustive polite word for law Yeah exactly it's five hundred eighty six pages.

Yeah but you know I got to tell you. OK. You know all due respect I mean in the age of blog posts in 140 character tweets and all the rest there's nothing I like more than to settle down with a book. The book's length has to be earned and I hope that it's been earned by the depth of interest in the reporting and the level of writing in the book but that's for the reader too. Decided me to thank God. The critics have also been extremely kind. Well the reason I raise the exhaustive piece is that what I thought about the book is that it has some detail though you know it follows an arc and a story line that many of us have read before and if you've paid attention to this and know but there's a great amount of detail that has not been seen before to my knowledge and some of that had to do with the kind of personal interviews you did with people who knew him you know in college and along the way as a young community organizer and so forth and so on.

People who deliberately did not speak during the campaign they were hesitant some of them in fact for example there were a couple of friends of Obama's when he first gets to college when he gets out of gets off of the rock as they say in Honolulu when he first gets to L.A. and he goes to Occidental College two of his closest friends were Pakistani and they really were pressured during the campaign really pressure. And I think the rest of us are already late. So yeah I mean and had all kinds of nasty stuff happen to them and they were very open with me. Jeremiah Wright was very open with me. So was Bill Ayres and others like that who were well in the case of Jeremiah Wright I think yes he was very wounded. Yes. And it in the case of Bill Ayers he was getting harassed like crazy and he needed the press like you need a hole in that. I appreciated the new interviews as you just mentioned by some people that we didn't hear much from or I hadn't heard from since the campaign. But what I did appreciate about the book was some of these pieces of details for example. But I ask you to read a little passage from a letter that

a very young President Obama wrote when he had moved to Chicago to become a community organizer and he wrote this back to his friend who went to his college friend right. He has a friend named Phil burner who was both a roommate with him in California at Occidental College and they both transferred to Columbia at the same time. And they were very close and then Obama went off to be a community organizer while most of his classmates were becoming investment bankers or law students or the rest members of the Reagan years. So he went to a privileged place like Columbia. You know the casino had open and Obama has moved into the south side which is the place where he really. Found a home he found a community he really settled on himself you mature and he wrote his long letter which Phil burner provided for me and I'll quote just a little bit of it. I work in five different neighborhoods of differing economic conditions in one neighborhood I'll be meeting with a group of irate homeowners working class folks bus drivers and nurses and clerical administrators who section of town has been ignored by the Department of Streets and

Sanitation since the whites moved out 20 years ago. In another I'll be trying to bring together a group of welfare mothers mothers at 15 grandmothers a 30 great grandmothers at 45 trying to help them win better job training and daycare facilities from the state. In either situation I walk into a room and make promises I hope that they can help me keep. They generally trust me despite the fact that they've seen earnest young men pass through here before expecting to change the world and eventually succumbing to the lure of a corporate office. That was really very informative and I've read Dreams From My Father and I. My favorite part of of his own book had to do with his description of the time in Chicago. Yeah. Were you intimidated because let's face it Dreams From My Father is beautifully written. It's a beautifully written book. But you know I've been to the rodeo before. And I say yes I mean. He's written his own life beautifully so you can have. But you know look there's the there's the autobiographies written by Frederick

Douglass and there are many biographies they do different things they do different scholarly work they describe you know in Frederick Douglass's book or in any memoir. It's a story that you're telling about yourself. That's what memoir writing is. I'm not suggesting it's dishonest but it's a particular kind of writing in a different kind of angle of vision what the reporter does with his story and does is the story of you collect all the voices around that person as well as his own or her own. And you bring history into it you bring context into it it's a very different very very different kind of book so is that why you call this biographical journalism. Well because I think scholarship is going to come down the line. Scholarship is going to come when Barack Obama is completely gray and sitting by the fire. And someone like Robert Carrow or Taylor Branch or whomever comes along and spends years and years and years on the project. What I was interested in doing is understanding Barack Obama's life both as a young man and as a politician. While he's in office I thought that with a To me that's

a project worth doing while he's in office while we are dealing with him while we're trying to understand the way his mind and temperament works. After all this is a period of time that may last another seven years. So that was what was on my mind. We're speaking with David Remnick who is the editor of The New Yorker and his latest book is The Bridge The Life and Rise of Barack Obama. Now you say when he wrote about himself in his book that race was at the core of his book and I find braces at the core of your book. You know that's you bet you meant for it to be right. Guilty as charged. OK. And why did you feel that it was necessary to put race at the core of your book. What's the most radical thing about Barack Obama not his politics. I mean he's a man of the Democratic center left his politics are not that much different from say Hillary Clinton's one issue separated them in any significant way in the race and it was it was Iraq which is probably why he won the Iowa caucuses. That's not what's radical about him historically what's radical is that he's the first African-American to become

president. This is something that we or most people aren't thinking about much anymore because they're thinking about 9.7 percent unemployment or Iraq or about Afghanistan or the you know whole list of crises and problems that you and I could spend the rest of the afternoon talking about. But what's radical about him historically is this is a country whose deepest wound whose longest standing epochal drama and struggle is that concerning Rice beginning with the 17th century. An African-American history is American history. They're intertwined. No more no less than African American culture and American culture. Yes well you're not going to I you know you want to get a argument from us. OK. So so there you are. And you know I just sometimes we forget what an astonishing thing happened and was ushered in on January 20th of last year.

Now I Believe me I appreciate that. One of the things that I want to talk to you about in your book. You're very details as I've said and you spent some time toward the back end of the book talking about the kind of fear mongering and hate mongering that was going on during the campaign hasn't stopped. No and some of the detail of that but your own participation in this or yours and the New Yorkers very short shrift in this book here is the line most of the people who wrote in this is about the the cover of The New Yorker which featured Michelle Obama with an afro and carrying a machine gun and Barack Obama with a turban and doing the fist bump and the flag is burning or in the fireplace. Most of the people who wrote expressed the opinion that while they of course understood the intent of the image they were worried that it would inflame the bigoted sentiments of others and hurt Obama and that. That's all you say about this. That's not true. Preceded by the context of why it was done and how you tell me the context but I'm talking about the New Yorker's participation us going all in and said OK I don't think The New Yorker was interested in participating in fear mongering just just the opposite.

The OP the image was called The Politics of Fear. What was happening that summer. Right. It's the summer before last. Some really frightening percentage of the country was saying things like he wasn't born where he says he was born. He's lying about his religion. He's soft on terrorism. She participated in a tape that has her talking about Whitey blah blah blah on and on and on. This was amplified by an accelerated by. I get it. Yeah. Well not everybody did. And so the artist this is what satire does satire provokes which is precisely what happened and put this all in one image and not to suggest that any of these things were true but to look at how absolutely absurd they were and the image was called The Politics of Fear. Look not everybody agree with me. Not everybody I like them and I can see. Thank you. I didn't I was over the top and I like that. OK.

You know you know that's what satire does sometimes it goes over the top it goes to far enough. If satire doesn't go very far it's too gentle and you know it has no blow at all. But at least at least credit me what the intent is. You and I can disagree as thinking people on whether it was a good idea or bad idea but I will say that almost all the mail that I got almost all of it was of course I get it. It's those rubes out there who won't get it right. And you know what. I never heard from the rubes so-called They were talking on talk radio trust me didn't need a New Yorker you know believe me. So so in the end of the day but I mean you know the road to hell is paved with good intentions I just have to say that so yeah but I don't have a good intention and you know I don't I don't think there's an objective right or wrong on this. Yeah. In other words by me insisting I'm right or by you insisting you're right doesn't make either one of us right. What it did do what it did do was provoke a lot of discussion about what was going on out there which had not been occurring on mainstream cable like CNN. Had not been occurring in the New York Times The Boston Globe etc. etc..

OK so you know. And by the way most of the criticism that the New Yorker has gotten Visa V Obama is that we're too soft on Obama. All right well let me ask this. What do you think you added to the discussion there's like a million Obama books out there and more to come so what. Well I think it's a fickle I can't I can't speak for the what do you want to. Well I can't speak for the books to come. I write what I write books are. But what did you add to the discussion that's out there no I think this is the first full scale biography of Obama. I mean there is really no other there was an early campaign book by David Mendel which is awfully good. And there's Obama's own books but you know Obama's books being good don't obviate books about him in general anymore than the autobiography of Malcolm X is going to eliminate the need for a real scholarly biography which is coming from Manning Marable by the way. I don't mean your specific what you think you uniquely bring. Well I mean I think it's great to have many books I'm not arguing that I think this is the first book for example that really sets him in the context of the institutions that he's been part of.

For example Harvard University has a long long chapter on which which is where he finds ambition very well done I'll give you the yeah. Sounding too defensive. I just want to say that was good. Yeah you know and I think also I think that that Chicago to me is a fascinating place. And the racial politics the politics of Chicago and how an outsider comes in and put plants his flag there that to me is an ethical story too. Well I got a feeling this is going to be on the bookshelves for a long time no matter what comes after. I think you know you did write it very well of course you would. My guest is David Remnick editor of The New Yorker and feel it's a prize winning author his latest book is The Bridge The Life and Rise of Barack Obama. And you can catch David Remnick tonight. He'll be discussing his book at the first parish church meeting house in Cambridge. For more information visit the Harvard bookstore website. Harvard dot com. David Remnick thank you for joining us thanks for having me. This is the Calla Crossley Show today's program was engineered by Alan Mathis and produced by Chelsea

mirrors our production assistant as Anna white knuckled the we are production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news and culture.