WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. Last week Governor Patrick signed a Silver Alert into law legislation that brings home the prevalence and seriousness of Alzheimer's disease. Based on the same principles as Amber Alerts used to warn the masses when a child has been abducted a Silver Alert works the same way sending out a warning when a senior has gone missing. A senior who has typically wandered off due to Alzheimer's disease or dementia. This is the latest developments surrounding Alzheimer's disease. From the new guidelines for diagnosing Alzheimer's which will take its earliest stages into account to news that spinal taps could identify those on their way to developing the disease. This hour we talk to two people directly affected by Alzheimer's on this latest research and legislation. We top off the hour with the mentees brothers the Cape Verdean duo who promote world peace by way of their record label. Up next memory and music. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying emergency personnel in

Tel Aviv are surrounding the Turkish Embassy after shots were fired today. The Associated Press citing an Israeli official reports the attackers identity and motive are unclear. This comes at a time of increased tension between Israel and Turkey whose governments clashed over Israel's confrontation with Turkish pro-Palestinian activists a few months ago. OK. A crowd of flood survivors desperately waiting for aid at a World Food Program warehouse in Pakistan today many have protested the food and other basic supplies have been slow to arrive in the wake of the worst floods to hit the South Asian nation in recent memory. Some 20 million people are affected. At least 15 hundred have died. The campus of Collin County Community College in McKinney Texas is in lockdown after shooting nearby. Lisa Vasquez a college spokeswoman SEC's says the shooting happened near McKinney police station. It was outside of the campus. There is the star discrepancies between whether. By the police station or outside of the college I believe it made them a little closer to the police station

that once a technology Associated Press reports one person is dead. Wholesale prices are up for the first time since March and industrial production rose significantly. NPR's Trina Williams reports that while those numbers as well as slightly better housing starts show improvement the economic recovery is still sluggish. Fears of inflation are less with wholesale prices increasing two tenths of a percent. Manufacturing helped boost industrial production one percent. That's double what some economists had forecast. The increase last month follows a drop in June housing starts which tend to fluctuate also improved but with applications for building permits down more than 3 percent. The sector is still showing weakness. Raymond James and associates chief economists Scott Brown we're still going to have a lot of lingering problems with foreclosures and the. He conceives and so on. But again the key is really going to be job growth. Brown says it will take more time before all the damage that was done to the economy can be fixed he acknowledges as has the Obama administration. That doesn't bode well for the

jobless and the underemployed. Trina Williams NPR News Washington. A somber day for those mourning Congressman Dan Rostenkowski or the late Congressman Dan Rostenkowski who's being laid to rest today outside Chicago. Hundreds of people crowded into a church today to pay final tribute to the former lawmaker who died last week of lung cancer at the age of 82 Russin Koski was a political giant in the Democratic Party but his legacy was overshadowed by corruption conviction for which he was sentenced to 17 months in prison. Here's an update on numbers from Wall Street Dow is up one hundred thirty six points at ten thousand four hundred thirty eight NASDAQ up 34 20 to 15. This is NPR News. There's no longer a threat of a strike at British airports as Larry Miller reports from London a single day of talks settle the dispute which threaten to ground planes later this month at London's Heathrow and five other airports in a walkout by 6000

employees. Airport ground staff including engineers security officials and firefighters voted to strike if the airport's owner and operator of the B.A.A. refused to boost its offer of a one and a half percent pay raise after negotiations the union says a much better deal is on the table and a strike can be avoided. B.A. director Terry Morgan. Both sides have come out with a deal which we're very happy with we think it's a deal that is a fair reward for our stuff. But it's also a deal that the company can afford 300000 passengers a day use the six airports a walkout would have been another. Load of British commercial aviation still recovering from losses caused by the volcanic ash cloud and strikes by British Airways cabin crew. For NPR News I'm Larry Miller in London. Afghan President Hamid Karzai is ordering tens of thousands of private security contractors to leave his country within four months. This after mounting concerns that the guards were reckless and working outside the law only guards working

inside embassies military bases and international organizations are allowed to stay. China is a step closer to developing its own space station the shin one news agency reports scientists to finish building a module that's now undergoing testing for a planned launch next year. But no word yet on when the Space Station is scheduled to be completed or when it will be manned. In 2003 China became the third country behind Russia and the U.S. to launch humans into orbit. This is NPR News. Support for NPR comes from Kauffman the foundation of entrepreneurship supporting the entrepreneurs movement. Learn more at. Build a stronger America. Dot com. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show last week Governor Patrick signed the Silver Alert into law. It basically works along the same principles as the Amber Alert except it applies to seniors who have gone missing having

wandered off due to dementia or Alzheimer's disease. This is just the latest news on the Alzheimer's front. We have new guidelines for diagnosing it and tests that can likely predict who is on the way to getting the disease. Joining me to talk about these developments are two people who have a direct and personal connection with Alzheimer's. Charlie Pierce and Bernice Osborn Charlie Pierce is a staff writer for The Boston Globe magazine and contributing editor to Esquire. His book Hard to forget an Alzheimer's story is about how his family came to terms with his father's Alzheimer's disease. Bernie's Osborn is currently caring for her mother who has Alzheimer's. Welcome to you both. Hi Kelly. Now before we get started listeners we want to hear from you. How will the Silver Alert change your life under the new guidelines will you consider getting tested for Alzheimer's. Give us a call at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7. And I should say before we start a conversation that we all three share this experience because my mother

died of Alzheimer's so we at this table are some of the millions of family members who are coping with this ever present disease. So first to the Amber Alert. Bernice what do you feel about Governor Patrick signing that bill into law. Well Kelly I think it's it's very exciting for us at least my mom. That was one of the ways that we found out that she had Alzheimer's is that she wandered off. And fortunately enough my family was large enough that we could make a call. And I jokingly say it's called the Osborne alert at the time because we called everyone into it. You got to go look out for. You got to go look for Grandma you gotta live so to know that there is a resource now for families in a system that's going to be in place to assist them in those situations it's very exciting to us so. Charlie I don't think people understand that that's a symptom of Alzheimer's. It's also this program is a measure of how far we've come in our general societal and understanding of the disease. My father disappeared went to put flowers

on the Family Plots in Shrewsbury in central Massachusetts where I grew up and we basically went to the flower store took a wrong turn and wound up three days later and Michael you were mine disappeared for three days when my wife was calling around trying to alert people this is in 1905. There was even a phone number for the Alzheimer's Association and she could find the State Police told my wife. Well you know sometimes men his age run off with their secretaries. And I want to have. And when he was found in Montpelier he was outside his car he was out of gas in the rain couldn't tell people his name the cops made the absolutely logical sidewalk diagnosis and put him in a drunk tank. Now you know this is now 25 years later. And look at the distance we've gone we've got state programs that understand what an important symptoms symptom of the disease this really is. So I'm very encouraged by it. I have to say I am too. My mother wandered off and she we had put her in one of those programs where you wear an identifying bracelet. And literally my father took his eyes off of her

for one second in a train station and then she wandered off and she did have the bracelet. But the thing that I like about this law is that it's it involves community not just the families. As you say not just the right but but the entire community thankfully. And that's just one of the one of the interesting and for people who are looking for hope and inspiration toward a cure for this non curable disease. One of the things that's happened lately there's so much it seems to me in the last few months that it has come to the fore as we're talking about new possible treatments new ways of determining who might have it early. All those kinds of things and of course one of the big things the issue is and you've written about it Charlie is there are new tests now which one could take to find out if in fact you have it early and in your family it was not just your father but you have uncles and an aunt right. Three three uncles that are not always symptomatic at the time of their deaths. You

know this is something I've wrestled with since the for the last great burst of research into the disease which occurred while I was writing hard to forget which was the study of the genetic markers particularly ones for early onset. And you know that at that point it became a question do you want to take a genetic test. And I didn't because there wasn't anything I would do with the knowledge I mean how would I change what I was doing The answer was not very much because once you got the information it wasn't very much to do. I feel sort of the same way about these. I mean if I know or if I don't know there's not enough therapy out there that would make taking the test plus I have a bone deep terror of spinal taps that was put into me at the time I was four years old they gave me a surprise one in the middle of my hospital. And so one of these test depends vitally on a spinal tap. So I will pass on that one too for a while. What about you Bernice. I agree with Charlie I think that. The news is exciting but we're so far away from a point where we were tested now. I would want to know

that there was something that they could give me that would be able to cure this otherwise that I have no interest in taking the test. So I have to say I'm on the fence though Charlie in your piece you wrote about alerting health insurance companies which gave me some pause. Yeah because you know once you're in that preexisting condition situation and there you have it. And right now of course nobody knows. But I thought to myself that at least if I knew I have I would just stop doing all this stuff. I don't want to do and just focus on doing that which I can appreciate and my family would have more time eccentric said Dr. so. But I'm still on the fence about it I have to say right I just I don't I don't. I mean it just it just seems pointless to me that I don't want to think about it as a course of the research is ongoing because let's be purely crass about this whoever breaks the key to this disease wins the Nobel Nobel Prize and makes a billion dollars which is why there's research money after there's as much research money as there is after this disease because it is the key to a whole bunch of different aspects of aging. So

I'm encouraged that the research goes on until there is a therapy and the therapies they have now my father there were no therapies when my father was diagnosed. And the difference between his course the course of his disease and the course of my aunt's disease it was the last of the siblings to have it who was on Aricept for the last couple years of her life was night and day. But. The day wasn't bright enough for me to to make me want to know before I'm symptomatic. OK we are speaking with that was Charlie Pierce and I'm talking with him. He's a staff writer at The Boston Globe magazine and a contributing editor to Esquire his book Hard to forget an Alzheimer's story is about how his family came to terms with his father's Alzheimer's disease. Also with us is Bernie's Osborn who is currently caring for her mother who has Alzheimer's. And we're talking about the latest new information about Alzheimer's treatments possible treatments possible ways of knowing early if you have the disease. And the governor Deval Patrick's just signing into law

the Silver Alert. Now listeners we really would you want to hear from you. How do you how will the Silver Alert change your life. Under the new guidelines will you consider getting tested for Alzheimer's. Give us a call at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1. Eighty nine seventy Bertie's you said you don't want to have the test not the least because it's a spinal tap test this Charlie mentioned. But also you just you but you think that it might be something that could help you know the rest of your family the younger members of your family later on. Absolutely. I think for for the next generation I think that there may be hope for them that they may find a cure as Charlie said the person that finds the cure for this disease is. It is going to make a big dollars and. I just feel like my family would definitely. The younger ones would definitely benefit from the research. One of the doctors recently quoted Dr. Reese's Sperling she's at Brigham and Women's Hospital

said something to. She said it we may not have the right drugs but she says I think it may be equally that we are trying them too late in the disease process. So you know maybe era step didn't work but for 30 percent of the population and that's what it was when my mother took it and it had no impact on her at all. But it could be that if you knew earlier who might have it and how many more people might have it then you could apply this earlier give people these drugs and that might make a huge difference in fact some doctors are already moving to do that. They look at the family history. They say it's probably likely people have it have presented with certain kinds this mild memory loss and they say well why not try it. What do you think about that Charlie. I think it's I think it's a complete matter of personal choice and I think that doctors should be careful to not to over diagnose and I think patients should be as informed as they can be before they go out and go out on a course of treatment for disease that may or may not

have. And I know that I know that they're talking about ridiculous. The rates of diagnosis on this new procedure it's 90 percent or something like that. The Spinal Tap is 100 percent accurate mostly 100 percent accurate. I find that there I find that hard to believe. To be perfectly honest with you I mean it may in fact be the most accurate test we have but a scientific test it's 100 percent. That to me is a little bit strange. And you know again I mean I think I think it's completely a matter of personal choice. In fact while I did not have my own genetic profile taken for all the reasons I explained in the piece we did test some of the brain tissue from my father. And there did not seem to be any of the genetic markers there. So we are a bit at sea as to why it hit his family as hard as it did. Yes that's what's so puzzling and listeners for those of you who don't know the common way to diagnose Alzheimer's right now is two. Put aside every other thing that it might be it's a multi-disciplinary testing across several areas.

Your loved one undergoes this and then afterwards I say well it's not this is not this is not that. So it is there for Alzheimer's and you know that's obviously not as accurate as being able to determine early on that it really is that the other way of course is after death the Alzheimer's Association is really good about asking people to get brain matter tested so that you can determine absolutely that it was and fact. So that's the way that we've had thus far. And now we have all these other possibilities. Bernice for opening up the doors and yeah people are going to make probably a zillion dollars but just today what I thought was interesting is that Eli Lilly has been working on a drug just announced that the drug that it got into Phase 3 studies which is pretty far along is not showing the promise that they thought so they're going to stop doing that treatment which is another way of just saying that this is a really tough disease to figure out. I mean it's it's tough. Yeah absolutely.

You want to know one of the one of the things that I that the doctors told me early on in my research for the book was that eventually meet we may have discovered that all timers in one disease. Right. That there may in fact be all timers A B C and D the way there is Hepatitis A B and C and that's one of the problems with with the research into it. You may you may find a course of treatment that is perfectly adequate for 80 percent of the disease process. But the other 20 percent goes merrily along. Right. So I mean I think that there is still a vast amount we don't know about this about this disease. Well we have a caller and Jeff go ahead please. Jeff just that we lose Jeff Jeff. No justice here. OK go ahead. I'm calling from Framingham and hearing about this new bill from the governor. I want to tell you that we had that here in bringing him for three years in which the police will call everyone's

home if somebody has lost it. And so I will call everybody it's an automatic system I believe because it's an it's a recording. What we've had here and this is for concern of fellow citizens. So Jeff let me ask you is this for. Because usually what police will say listen we have to wait 24 hours to determine that someone is missing. So this is even before 24 hours. Yes. Wow. That's going to happen somebody call the police. The police then make sure that this is a real call. How do they do that and they immediately get on the phone. I mean to get on are whatever they used to call people and do that. It's essentially the same as the robo calls you get telling you your kid is not going to school anymore. OK all right. Yeah that is going to be a phone tree but it's not a phone tree it's I'm actually not sure I've lived here for 10 years. I'm very

pleased about how things are done here but it disturbs me when I think that you know the concern is about money. The concern is about who's going to get a big prize. Rather than the facts. That is something that should be done for the beneficence. For the good well-being of our fellow citizens. Well money money and fame are highly motivating factors for people. I mean it's you know it's highly possible that the right thing will get done for the wrong reasons. And frankly if that happens I'm perfectly ok with it. Well it's fine if they should do that. Yeah but to do it because for many many of the inventions that have been made and the social services that have been provided have been for not really not money it's been for concern about bettering ourselves citizens. I hear you and I'm going to refer you to Charlie's book because his book is about his personal journey but also about the scientific competition.

Scientists fighting actually as opposed to collaborating. And that's one of the things that has changed right now that we're so excited about. We're going to continue this discussion thanks for the call. On the other subject like this. Thank you very much. We're talking about Alzheimer's disease with my guest Bernie saw this morning Charlie Pierce will be back after this break. If you'd like to join the conversation please give us a call at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. Stay with us. With the. Support for WGBH comes from you. And from Ace ticket. With tickets to

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talking about Alzheimer's disease and the Silver Alert which Governor Deval Patrick just signed into law. It functions just like the Amber Alert simming out a mass warning when seniors suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's go missing. Joining me is Charlie Pierce a staff writer for The Boston Globe magazine and contributing editor to Esquire. His book Hard to forget an Alzheimer's story is about how his family came to terms with his father's Alzheimer's disease. I'm also joined by Bernie's Osborn. She is currently a caretaker for her mother who has Alzheimer's disease. She's long been an advocate for having the Silver Alert in Massachusetts. Listeners call in. What will the Silver Alert do for your life if you're caring for a loved one with Alzheimer's. Give us a call if you are currently current caring for someone or if you have in the past. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and Bernie Some want to talk to you because I want you to explain to people what caring for someone with Alzheimer's really means. There is a book called The 36 Hour Day and that begins

to get at I think what it's like. But for someone like yourself caring for someone you love very much. I've been there. Describe it for people who might not know. It's very challenging and it's very gratifying at the same time. And I think it depends on what stage your loved one is in. My mom is in moderate to late stage Alzheimer's so we pretty much do everything for her. She can walk for herself but she needs assistance with all of her daily tasks we do everything. It can be a gratifying side of it. It is it's an honor I would have to say and a blessing to be able to take care of my mom at this stage of my life my sister and my brothers always say that they took care of us and what else would we do but take care of them. So exactly I used to say the same thing. Do you have any advice for people who've just gotten the diagnosis. I know for me I was the one in my family that had to tell everybody else and make them hear me that it really

was happening because nobody wanted everybody else in the family said no it's not happening no it's not happening. And I sought out the Alzheimer's Association I will say that was my rock my bed rock through all of this. They're fabulous to get some help. And Dr. Paul Wright who is still there right now was the gentleman who led the session to let me know what was going on for you. Bernice I have to agree. The all Symes Association has definitely helped me and my family with the challenges of this disease. For people who just have who their loved one has just been diagnosed with Alzheimer's I would tell them to seek out help and resources and not try and defeat the challenges of this disease. It's there's help out there. Did you were you the one in your family having to tell everybody else or how did you come to grips with this. I think that we were all at different places I definitely was the person and still am who goes out and gets the information and brings it back. We were all in denial at some point

during the transition of this disease to the point where sometimes you know family members were like if if you give your mom go biloba and all these other things because you want to believe that there's something out there that can change the prognosis of the disease but. I think just being able to call the Alzheimer's Association they have a great staff over there they're always there there's always the helpline there's a lot of resources out there don't be afraid to ask for help and that means going outside of the family because we kept it to ourselves for a long time before we told. You know aunts and uncles and no one knew we kind of kept my mom to ourself and tried to protect her from you know those embarrassing moments that we didn't we didn't want to have to deal with and didn't want her to have to deal with too so I would definitely say seek out help. Charlie you know that as is obvious from my book. My wife was the one who handle most of this I was a massive state of denial through most my father's disease. But what I did learn a couple of things Number one do the hard stuff first sign the house sign the car do the money

that's going to be the toughest thing but do it fast as long as you're a loved one can still sign their name make sure you arrange the finances because you don't want to try that when it comes. When it comes time to for them to go someplace. Second thing and this is the one that I thought I learned far too late. Accept the person for who they are with the disease they're very patient with that is with the disease. They have a heart problem. They have cancer. Treat them as though they have. What you're seeing as painful as it may be to you is are symptoms of a disease. If your father who is a decorated Korean War veteran wants to carry a stuffed animal around don't be embarrassed for him if he's comforts him. Why hassle yourself with it let him do it. If your mother puts a shirt on backwards in the morning. Let her do it. What I mean what is it. You can have that fight every morning. No mom it's going this way. You're always going to lose because she's not going to remember. Don't be embarrassed for them for you. Which is the lesson I had to learn. You know what they're doing is not embarrass you are not the patient here

they're the patient so if they do things that embarrass you that's going to have to be secondary. It's and for me I think I lost some time because I was so busy trying to care for my mother. I didn't want her to do stuff I wanted to hurt herself and so I tried to do when when she was capable of doing some things and that is something I will regret always that I took. I think some time away from her he went we have a call and from Arlington Go ahead please. I think it's interesting to hear the show. Because my husband I was a caregiver for my husband he was diagnosed at 52 with Alzheimer's and five years later. And but he died 15 years ago so it's I'm really and he was a wanderer's. So this new law sounds like a wonderful thing. My husband was only sound because somebody on a TV radio heard the cops have picked up somebody who

looked drunk and they heard on the CB radio from another from Arlington that somebody was missing because I called them and he put two and two together. That man and called I think it was a Medford police and identified my husband. So I say to anybody to go through it. What we went through. So this is still so as far as you're concerned this is going to make a big difference. Oh yes. Definitely. The wandering thing is so scary. Because like you people have been saying it. Someone can wander within seconds. You turn around and they can be gone and you just can't be vigilant. You know you just can't always be watching somebody every minute. And so this I mean this I think will alert everybody and then the person will be thought of as drunk which I don't think people are maybe now anymore. No I think you're absolutely right and I think I think if a local policeman finds an elderly person who is disoriented and seems lost their

first instinct now is going to be also I mean it's not going to be drunk. Well as well my husband was 52 years old. Well yes and even still there's so much more awareness now than there was when my father disappeared. Right right. Right I agree. So it's a really good thing and I think the other thing I would really. I think it's really great that you're recommending people call the Alzheimer's Association because they are just the most wonderful organization and supporting all of us who had to deal with this. I agree overwhelming dizzy. Thank you so much and for your call. You're welcome. Charlie what we know now since your book is that there's been a big move for scientists to work together now. That's one of the other things that's happened that's really amazing and wonderful. I think that's going to make a huge difference. Yeah when I was working on the book there was this was primarily among the geneticists there was a very very super heated competition labs didn't trust each other oddly

enough a lot of the researchers came out of the Parkinson's research that had been done at Mass General over in the Old Navy yard over there which was which was an absolutely perfect example of scientific cooperation. Everybody in that lab got along and they all went and started running the labs and got on Also I resent They weren't speaking to each other anymore. I think a lot of that's been papered over I think a lot of that has you know I think there's a lot more cooperation a lot more. You know what I think as more and more people realize that this is easy it's probably multi-factorial that there probably are two or three different kinds. There probably isn't just a strictly genetic component to it. You have to cooperate otherwise you'll never get anything done. Bernays personally what would you say to people out there who are listening who can't even pick up the phone to call because they're in the throes of would you and I and Charlie have experienced in just the heartbreak of caring for a loved one and watching this the deterioration of the disease. I would say talk to someone that you're close to. I would tell them

to seek out a friend and you know perhaps just write it down you know write down what your feelings are around the disease and the emotions that you may be going through at the time. I think that. What you had said earlier about just being able to appreciate and really cherish the time that you have with your loved one while they're still able to remember while you're still able to do things with them and and they can take part in activities and events and those things to just to just try not to focus on what's coming down the line but just focus on what is happening right then and there in that moment. One of the things that we say in our caregiver group. We do the best we can with what we have at the time. So I would suggest that families try that. And my piece of advice is from Dr. Paul Ryan he said tell the patient what they have which seemed just not to make sense to me at the time. But I never will forget the look on my mother's face when I said you're a mom you have

Alzheimer's. And you know it was it was a moment for all of us I think. But in some ways I believe that the the patient is in that situation relieved because they know now. Absolutely. I mean I mean I mean once that I mean yes I have a disease. I can understand that concept. You know they've been floating in this bizarre world where you know stuff you know disappears at their fingertips I can't know why. Now they know why. And they also know that we're not in denial right now and I think that's a great suggestion. I think it is time we told my mom we were all in the in the doctor's office and we didn't really understand what all Simers was but today there's so much information out there where you are able to explain what it is even if they forget. Well I think that's a good point for us in Don. OK. Charlie I have to say that I want people to read your piece that you wrote recently called The Devil You might know now which was an on Boston dot com. It's a fabulous piece for anybody who is going

through this experience. I thank you so much I've been speaking with Bernie's born an Alzheimer's caretaker and longtime advocate for the Silver Alert. And Charlie Pierce the author of heart forget an Alzheimer's story. Thank you both for joining us. Thanks. Thank you Carol. And coming up it's the Cape Verdean musical duo the Mindy's brothers. We'll be back after this break. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Skinner auctioneers and appraisers of antiques and fine art. You might consider auction when downsizing a home or selling a collection 60 auctions annually 20 collecting categories Boston in Marlborough online at Skinner

Inc dot com and from the Lexus Broadway Across America 2010 2011 season you can become a member and see Jersey Boys Mary Poppins Rock of Ages hair and West Side Story. Broadway Across America dot com slash Boston and from Somerset Chrysler Jeep Dodge featuring the new 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee. You were invited to stop in for a test drive at Somerset auto Route 195 in Somerset Massachusetts. You can learn more at Somerset auto group dot com. This is eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston NPR station for trusted voices and local conversation with the world. The PBS News Hour and the Kelly Crossley Show explore new voices with us all day long here on the new eighty nine point seven. WGBH. If you signed on as a WGBH member at the end of last summer. Thank you. Your

gift helped to liberate NPR News to countless commuters. Incredible concerts to a legion of students and reliable intelligence broadcasts to millions of the winners on cable 9.7 and to so many more. Please keep making an impact by keeping up with your membership. You can renew your support online at WGBH dot org. Why 9.7. Because the way some Kenyans run that is barefoot may be better for their bodies than running in shoes because you'll only hear Marco Werman and the world on the new eighty nine point seven. WGBH radio. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. My guess Ramiro and John Mindy's known as the Mindy's brothers are Brockton based musicians originally from Cape Verd. They use their music to promote unity and peace in Africa and the world. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Thank you. OK I'm going to

give our listeners kind of a really quick geography lesson and real quick history lesson so we can locate everybody. The Republic of Cape Verde is a cluster of 10 islands in the Atlantic Ocean which is off the coast of West Africa. It's about three hundred fifty four miles probably closest to Dakar Senegal. If you think about the continent of Africa and the shape there's that little piece that juts out it looks like a little handle on the bottom part of the handle is where the car Sinegal is and that's where the islands are closest to their 500000 people there. And this year the Republic of Cape Well not the republic but Cape Verde itself is celebrating five hundred fifty years of existence. And you guys are based in Brockton because people left and went all over the Americas and Europe and some landed right here in Massachusetts and there's a very large Cape Verdean population right here.

I do. OK. Very well your music is fantastic. Well thank you so much. Let me just say there was a wonderful meeting you at the African American Journalists convention that the San Diego so it's a pleasure to see you in you know hometown exactly Lister's I met these guys on the left coast as we say. And I discover they're from Brockton So I do have them on the show. When I found out how fabulous they were which is great it was really great. Well I want to get right to listening some get allowing our listeners to hear your music so we can talk about it on the other side of the play. The first piece is support regress which the English translation is the gate of the return. And this is the title song off of your latest album The Gate of return which celebrates the 500 50th anniversary of capered and the journey of her people. So here we go. NO SCHOOL ON THAT LIST today it's might. Be.

OK while we're listening to TELL me what I'm listening to music that you're listening to sort of the Mendoza brother Stiva in this particular music. This particular song actually you should be able to hear which is a you know very popular music from KPN islands and you should be able to use south you should be able to hear a little bit of Brazilian is a lot of you know and the tone there because we send a message to back to this part of the world. I thought I even heard a little tiny bit of reggae is that yes you know you can hear a lot of stuff here because yes this is we intended this song to be our unifying song for the entire Atlantic diaspora stuff. This is a this is a message album to get a return is a message album be it. And we wanted to be we wanted to send a message not only lyrically but also musically to all our to all our people down this entire hemisphere so you

will feel elements of their culture as well. In this case of you and in fact some of the lyrics are just calling people back home you're saying they all passed here at this gate of return they all passed it does get a return for a bar a bar budo Sabat Martinique Barbados St. Martin Dominica Jamaica Cuba everybody come on back show to then return to the gate right. Well we've discovered studying the history of caper during the last 25 years is that capered was the birth of the new world. This was the first society. That was built 14 60 bringing Africans and Europeans together and it is the first world first country of Man world is the it is the model multi-cultural multi-racial society that became the Americas Columbus went to he went to K Verde 14 98 to find out that we were

surviving. We were multiplying we were producing We were not dying off. These diseases and took that model to the new world. So three years in 51 he brought the first half and kept him from caver to the Aspire you know to Haiti and Dominican Republic so that is the model on which the entire hemisphere from the Americas the Americas Caribbean is built upon. So for people who dont know the Portuguese settled their first in they brought Africans with them first to work in the plantations then it was a very bustling Atlantica slave trade base there been a lot when you speak about the multiculturalism a lot of mixing of the races so that you know a lot of people identify themselves as Creole. Correct you have k Verd and I think its very important to stress that were about 300 years ahead of us. So we having caver to mix with people that are. Starting 40 90 the you have the Africans coming from

the West African the beach Argos the blonde as the pale demanding goods and so on from the from the west Africa and you have the Europeans you have the Jews coming 40 90 starting 40 nineties with the Inquisition in Europe so you have a whole mix of people that call themselves off the wild cave ins. Some have African descent some don't some I mix but to Cape Verde and they all Cape Verdean And that's there for the mix of your music let I remind my my my listeners that when I'm speaking with. That was John Mandy's. My guess are both Ramiro and John Mindy's known as the Menendez brothers Brockton bass musicians originally from Cape Verde. So that's why there is a mix in your music Are there misconceptions that people have about your music in terms of comparing it to other genres and cultures or marrow. Yes obviously you know it's a Creole music as a career college tour I mean we've been in the Caribbean when they listen to music they say this is ours I mean well guess what when you

eat the food you know we say well this is I was from you know from Cape would I just all this as you said earlier this universe I mean you know from New Orleans from Brazil and from all throughout the Americas. You listen to it you listening to the music into all sorts specks of life you know. OK we're going to listen to some more of this is there. It's off your 1995 album band era. It's old and sacred musical style that blends the African music tradition with the blues and it's the most well-known by your fans. He got.

Beat up. I guess the best sacred music I've heard in a while for the let me just say it makes me want to dance. Is that disrespectful remember. X say you know you said this style of music it in. This is the 15th year history of this particular style of music on it's on this forum OK. Because on this format because prior to this was only in the drums and chanting called in response we just took it from that particular form and then break it into more contemporary style. I see. And it goes it goes very it goes back 500 years of this name implementation of the Christianity in caper. OK. The drums was banded and they will be played as is this mayor. And we play the African rhythms with African chant. You know do one during the religious ceremonies and you know I suppose of St. John's when Phillip.

And so on. But it's only played on those days when you hang the drums and then everything goes away for those three days you play it and then you put it away. We just decided to take on this traditional music form and bring it out so people can actually perform it. OK. And it's been it's been phenomenal the the response because the culture it's been there for five and fifty years we just never really played on the bands that you know about 15 years ago. And there were several hits off of this particular album band era then you know people know you for an OS and perhaps this is why you were tapped to be a part of the resulting in Isles episode that was just aired on TNT which would you would that they let me just tell people that it was that was a story Rizzoli and Isles is about a Boston homicide detective a woman and her female friend her best friend who's a morgue director and there was a plotline that took place in the Boston area Cape Verdean neighborhood.

You all had some music in it. Yes it's it's part of this. Process what we've been doing is since the release of the record on the twenty fifth in Boston when it was really for the 25th. We've traveled across the country lecturing on the history of caver and its connection to the world how a verb became the model of the new world. And we've done this lecturing at the Museum of Tolerance in a museum of the museum here in New Bedford at the Museum of the African diaspora in San Francisco. Toronto we've gone to Toronto to Montreal to San Diego to New York. We've done a total of 15 15 16 events and. Soli talking about the history of cavemen and its connection to the new world. And so part of all of this movement is what in some ways you know leads to many different things including obviously being with you

here. Yeah it is yeah. How did you guys end up in Boston and Boston are your families in the Willey museum spot of the Cape Verdean. I mean your family your friends our family yes yes because it's we follow the same trace in the Cape. OK maybe Gratian that has happened. So there were people here other community here and you just were just ragged by then. Yeah OK I should mention to people that you were also awarded while you were listing all the other things that it does happen to you. The country's highest civilian medal for your invaluable contribution to the culture of Cape Verde. By the government of caper that's pretty amazing as well. It's it's been a it's been an honor to certainly work on the music of cave. You know I remember when I meet a graduate from Berkeley 93 Berkeley right here in Boston.

That's where your musical training is from. Yeah OK all right so you know we were a decision was made OK why are we going to. Was he going to go to L.A. at that time you know pursue a music score a film score and career or are you going to stay in the community and you know work on recording in developing the music. We decided to stay. You know we decided to build a record label here to pull a studio and bring musicians from overseas and locally and record and promote the music and he lives in L.A. now. But but this is what we do on both coasts. We're still working on the music and trying to elevate its presence and its recording quality. Why would I want to and can I just go anywhere to find your albums you have 150 of them. Yeah you know. Just so you can tune in you know I am designing my own CD Baby.

Yes you know above where we have been using music to promote peace love you need you know we we obviously entertainers but where you know we are about humanitarian We use music for other reasons because you know with the heel of the soul and in the long and the name of your record label it's NBA records that care. But this particular album here it's aim be global media so we fuse all of the all of all of this productions and everything else that we do under this company that it's all media company and be global media. The reason I ask that is because a portion of the proceeds from your latest album is really going for a foundation. Explain that to us. What we did is throughout the 90s we were traveling extensively and touring extensively in Angola which is a sister country that speaks the same language.

There was a former colony of Portugal as well. We toured extensively in Angola promoting peace in through music we recorded over 12 songs and toured deep into the jungles of Angola in provinces way down next to Namibia up to Cabinda deep in the south and using music to bring reconciliation to bring peace. A lot of these songs that you heard from the for example from the bondage album is one of those songs belong muka all of these songs were all promoting peace and unity. But we didn't didn't dawn upon a time that we should have opened a foundation. So about five years ago or so you know let's look at this work again. So we decided to open a music and Life Foundation which is to use the unifying force the power of music to invest in promotion of peace health education cultural development and end poverty eradication. So a lot we're going to be doing in throughout this region.

We're going to use We're going to continue to use music to bring peace to our neighborhoods. You know right here in the U.S. we think that music is incredibly vist used to be considered to be more of an entertainment but is really a very sophisticated form of communication. Really touches the human soul like probably no other form of communication that we have available to us. So we want to be very responsible with this with this medium. And I just want to say this specifically you're talking about some of the violence that took place in the Boston neighborhoods a summer you connected to Cape Verdean community and you all are very involved in talking about that up front. Sure. So the music I found ation is going to play a role in that we were part of the conference that was held July 10th that was organized by UMass Professor Donald my saddle and his staff and we were going to as we have done in other countries we were going to do here use music to

to to to bring out a whole different view of the world. You know this world should be more about it should be more about love. We need to remake the world. I want to give people a chance you mention the song and the queen. And this is a track also off of the 1995 album band there I was recorded as part of your humanitarian efforts. Here's a little piece of it. I looked up to. So I guess if it speaks of everything you know everything that you write is about this song was written at the time that I was going through these changes. You know so we were there you know

like John had said how do you feel about having your music. Well responded to it. You know not just in this country but actually being a global force as you are. It's humbling because on one end you can get into the studio and record something that does not guarantee that anyone is going to like actually respond to the music. And two people cry and say well this song really touched us specially at a time when we were recording and touring on these songs we would say you know no one was recording this type of stuff about us especially from outside coming from us and coming and touring and spending this type of time with us. It also gave us a sense that Africa is very lonely. I mean there's a sense that they're looking for the connection they're looking for the guy they're looking for the sons and daughters in particular to reconnect with the continent. That's why when a lot of our meetings with the people there they

say well you know do the Michael Jackson in the and the and the and the stars if you are Michael Jordan and do they even know that Angola exist or Mozambique exist do they care. So we can see many of these countries Angola Mozambique aver. You see this hunger to reconnect the reconnection hunger for reconnection between the diaspora. And I think that now with technology with the time that we live in we need to take this initiative and that's why we that's why we put together to get a return because we really need to reconnect on all levels culturally spiritually. We need this we need this return. I say we we like with you know. You know Gates is doing for example with the DNA connecting people and as Professor Skip Gates Exactly. And I just think it's a beautiful thing that we need to continue on this on this journey.

Every unifying our people you know unifying humanity humanity in general it's not about you know it's just not about Africans in this hemisphere about people in general. Laugh more as we say caper that you know what I best like. Love beyond love their kindness kindness that ice camp that one nation you know together I mean you know it's it's been blessed. Well well but listen we know your journey is not over because this record is the gate of return one so you must and we know that there is more to come. And this is what I have been speaking with musicians and composers Ramiro and John Menzies known to music lovers as the Menendez brothers. Their latest album is the gate of return one aka port regressed so thank you both so much for joining us. Thank you so much. I think we'll be able to tell you it's OK really today our show was engineered by Alan Manison produced by Chelsea Mercer and I white knuckled me and Abbey Ruzicka in turn is lucky shall Landrum where production of

WGBH radio. This is the Cali costly show Boston's NPR station for news and culture.