Rock and Roll; Interview with Jeff Barry [Part 1 of 2]

Today that's me Mark really. Did do ron ron ron did do ron ron. Good going. To do run run run didn't do rhyme right.

But. But yeah it's great. Do run run run and to run right. It would be one more thing. To do run run run and do run run.

Good for me. Do Ron Ron Ron did do ron ron. I wish to do run run meant something. So when someone asks me what there is to do run run may not have an answer but they do run around probably came about because I couldnt think of any right at the moment and

maybe figured I do it the next day and never got around to it. It either means that or it means what do I did he means. But with three people. So those words and I know you were kind of you know writing this you know and that is a very good possibility I can say that I'm answering the question. Anyway. Well we were very consciously trying to write a piece of entertainment for young people and without making the whole relationship in that song too serious that kind of lightened it up made it fun and it's kind of a to do and gives it a signature it gives it something to talk about. And as we are.

In the early days making New York first or writing acts a little bit after that you said that you were influenced by Lieber and Stoller in particular Carrie Lee. You describe how you were in their music and songwriting. Well Lieber and Stoller were very influential to me and I always looked up to them they were few miles up ahead of me on the musical road and in particular I suppose Jerry was more of an influence since Jerry and myself come from a lyrical place as opposed to the musical place. And Jerry was also a sharp dresser which I broke out of Brooklyn into Manhattan and that impressed me and I said Ah I see you he introduced me to all the great stores in Manhattan. And.

He he was as well as a musical influence and a personal influence let's sum it up at that because. So you just you know well the Brill Building in the 60s was the real hub of the pop music industry. Whether you had offices there or not you did business there at one time or another during your daily activities. And I still remember the first time I saw Burt met Burt Bacharach Sweitzer Angie Dickinson at the time they were walking down this long marble hallway from there which leads from the front to the back and I can still see them coming towards me and he introduced me to Angie and it was this

one of those moments that just stays with you. And on either side of the lobby were two restaurants Jack Dempsey's and the turf and they were filled with music people at lunch and in the other floors the upper floors there were all the publishers and the writers offices in the halls were just filled with music. The doors were not soundproof. Writers would come to the Brill Building to pitch or sell their songs to the publishers and they would be roaming the halls going from Florida floor trying to make contact. I had never been doing and I had a staff writing job with publishers in the building and but I was aware of the people looking to get in the door as they say.

I don't care what you write. You know. Phil Spector was as much of a character as anyone and I suppose still is. He was eccentric and flamboyant and difficult at times but obvious to everyone. A genius. I think Phil's genius came out in his work in a studio with the wall of sound that was unique to him. And when we were creating songs a certain ability to

find the natural next chord and to make it all flow and it in a kind of a normal natural way but at the same time something different about each song be able to bring that to it. You know when you are writing you start with an idea. When Ellie Greenwich and Phil and myself got together to work we would create in various ways sometimes there would be a title to start with but usually we had an artist in mind and it wouldn't take too long before music was happening and the framework of the song was there and the blanks we filled in with silly words like you do run around. You know

the old question of which came first the chicken or the egg or the music or the lyric. To me it all happened at once. It all they played off one another and I don't really think one took the lead over the other. It was quite all a very natural easy experience. You also mentioned. Yeah that's. Right. Well it was it was kind of interesting. We had three people and only failing myself. And there are three parts to a song I mean there are technically the notes the words that are hung on those notes and the chord bet.

And you can change any one of those three elements to any song. So it was kind of a. A gang we all contributed. Even though we might have had more barriers of responsibility let's say. But there certainly were very rigid and it was a lot of fun. It was it was a good time and I think it reflects in the songs they make people smile. And we were smiling while we were writing them. Well the areas of breakdown of responsibility I would say Phil was usually at the keyboard which would mean the chords sometimes Ellie and my area was usually words lyrics and some melody because you can't help singing the words as they come to you. And we would edit ourselves and contribute and play off each other until it was time to stop.

You also mentioned that you like that you had a very direct you know. Like you know now it was me. Can you talk about that. Yeah right. I think some of what was can be attributed to the success of the song as we were turning out of the time were the directness of the lyrics and be my baby was probably as probably as good an example as any. It is pretty much free from metaphor. If we wanted to say Be My Baby we said Be My Baby. And that we I think we were so much aware of it at the time as we are now looking back at it. But they were very honest and direct and I think related well to the teenage girl I would say who we were really directing the songs that

and the lack of metaphore made it believable relatable and street obal a lot of the songs actually we envision them happening in the street. For instance do I did he starts with there she was just walking down the street gives you a visual image. Then he kissed me starts with. She walked up to me and asked me if I wanted to dance or he walked up to me and asked me if I wanted to that is a visual image but it's in the real daily life of the teenager. You're right. We were we were very conscious of our audience and that the buyer and the listener of these songs was going to be a teenage girl or as as maybe even eight or nine years old we were not concerned with the adults not in a disrespectful way but we knew that they were going to be

attracted to this material even and if they did hear it it would certainly be acceptable to the name there's nothing. Nothing ugly about the material and we wanted it to be something that kids would enjoy very very conscious of that even in the fact that they're all very respectful to the male female relationship which is what 99 percent of what's on the charts is about. Now you know songwriting is about the male female relationship. Yes there are songs of brotherhood in politics and but very rarely do we write about computers or their car songs. Cars are cool but even in the car songs it's usually gets down to me and my baby in my car you know. Let's face it songs are about love which is you know I love you I don't

love you. Come here go away. I miss you I don't miss you I'm lonely I'm not lonely it's all about affairs of the heart and we can all relate to those that we all have common emotions in our experiences may not be all common but the emotions sure are. Do you know. Most of the songs that we wrote with Phil were for his artists. Even though I like Chapel of Love ended up with Ellie and I working on that for our own label. Most of the songs were created for Phil's artists and they were pretty interchangeable from artist to artist. They're on it's can do be my baby but they

also could have done to do run etc one song in particular was created for a particular artist and that was River Deep Mountain High. We sat down to create something for Tina Turner her particular talents her particular range and energy that you put into her vocals. And that song was for Tina. What I was not the lyrics you know lyrics. How how her voice affected the writing of a boy. So you're saying to me take a different direction. All right then you might hear it. Tina Turner Tina Turner's unique energy and vocal range allowed us to create a song that we could hardly sing ourselves. We could go for those top

notes and for and for those bottom those and really get the range that is not you would not ordinarily write if you were just writing a song with no artist in mind because of most most songs you try to keep within an octave range because most singers are comfortable within those 12 notes. But with Tina we had that latitude to go for it. And it's kind of fun too to be able to do that to her presence. There are no way for nature that they're not. Oh yeah. That's OK. Not on Sullivan I was there in Shea Stadium and their first performance there. I might have said Sullivan too. It seems like I have over the years I don't know if I saw

one usually for. The first time I actually heard any of the Beatles music it was in a car. I think it was the B-side of their first record I think it was I want to I Want To Hold Your Hand and it really sounded different to me and it sounded a bit like trouble like this is something new which I very rarely paid any attention to anyone else was doing and what not only wasn't their time but it kind of didn't matter. It was all very right brother in those days and as long as whatever we were doing was working. It kind of didn't matter what anyone else was doing. But the Beatles and everything about the act all the heat in the pub listen he couldn't be ignored. It didn't influence because we weren't. We were mainly recording and writing for girls and girl groups so there was very little influence.

On Myself I can speak for that by the Beatles but just an awareness that there there was a new game in town. What do you like. As a songwriter when I first was aware the Beatles started it. You couldn't avoid hearing it not that I tried. And what struck me was not so much the songs or the part of the song as that that seemed unique to me were it was more melodic at the beginning then the lyrics because they were still talking about you know I love you I don't love you and I need you I don't need you. And and their their vocal sound the arrangements. That's what struck me as unique. More more the record producer in me was

impressed. Then this song writer I would say. Would your sense grant or go right you had a number of hits. Oh yeah right right right. You might want to know the British Invasion a certainly made a lot of noise in the record industry and I remember when we started Redbird records we put out the Dixie cups singing Chapel of Love. Now with everything on the charts these white boy groups playing instruments we put out three black girls just singing a little ditty and it went to number one and locked in for about two months I think. And I think that just attests to the need for variable programming at the station level.

But it was quite a thrill for me.