WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. Across the nation Americans are having a profound gut reaction to the recession literally with widespread unemployment and rising poverty. Close to 50 million people are having to cut corners in the kitchen which can mean eating laundry Tricia's foods on the cheap or going without. In the land of supersize plenty. How do we reconcile an obesity crisis and a hunger epidemic in a nation where food retailers toss out close to. Five billion pounds of food a year. This hour we talk to Doug RAU The former president of Trader Joe's turned Harvard fellow whose hard work to bridge the great nutritional divide. From there it's off to the races. Look at how the run up to the governor's election is playing out in the Ocean State. And we top it off with our continued Shakespear coverage our roundup of the area's summer Productions. Up next from supplies astronomic to Shakespeare's history. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying U.S. stocks are

falling for a second day in a row after new unemployment claims rose unexpectedly last week. At last check Dow was down 35 points to ten thousand three hundred forty four Nasdaq down 11 at twenty one ninety eight. Previous reports point to an economic recovery losing steam Art Hogan chief market analyst for Jeffries and company says investors will be very interested to see what upcoming reports reveal. Look at the rest of the economic data story look at the weekly jobless numbers look at things like retail sales that are really coming apart as a look at back to school it's a bit tougher the surveys that come out over the next couple weeks and see if they have that economic data soft patch actually improves a little bit. The latest earnings reports are also fueling worries over the economy. Cisco Systems revenue from the last quarter as well as its forecast are below analysts expectations. Well if the federal judge who struck down Proposition 8 lifts his stay on marriage for same sex couples today weddings could begin sometime on

Thursday. NPR's Karen Grigsby Bates has more. Last week Chief Judge Vaughn Walker of the U.S. district court in San Francisco granted a temporary stay of his ruling that determined the proposition barring legal marriage for same sex couples was unconstitutional. Prop 8 supporters it asked for the stay so they could argue for a moratorium on the marriages while they appeal to a higher court. After hearing arguments from both sides Judge Walker's office announced he would make his ruling public sometime Thursday if the stay is lifted. Officials throughout California are preparing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples. Karen Grigsby Bates NPR News. In Chicago jurors are deliberating for a 12th day in Rod Blagojevich his corruption trial the former Illinois governor has pleaded not guilty to 24 counts including attempting to sell or trade President Obama's old Senate seat. Workers in the Gulf of Mexico have resumed their efforts to put a final seal on BP has blown out oil well. NPR's Dan Charles says work had been suspended because of bad weather.

For months now BP has been drilling a relief well down toward the base of the runaway Macondo Well the original goal was to intercept the well near its base and fill it from the bottom with cement at least part of the job however is now already done. BP managed to plug the wells central pipe with cement just over a week ago. But the relief well still may be needed to plug the narrow space around that central pipe. The relief well has just a few dozen feet to go but it will take several days to get all the drilling equipment back into place and also to carry out some more tests in the well to see if an additional cement plug is even necessary. Dan Charles NPR News Washington. U.S. stocks still sliding down as down 20 to ten thousand three hundred fifty one. This is NPR News. In Colombia a car bomb has detonated outside the country's biggest radio network from Bogota NPR's Juan Ferrara reports the attack comes just five days after a

new president was sworn in. A small car packed with 110 pounds of explosives went off at 5:30 a.m. outside got a cold radio where some of Colombia's best known radio personalities work. Several people were injured and windows were blown out of nearby apartment buildings. Colombian authorities label it a terror bombing though they have not determined responsibility but it comes just days after Juan Manuel Santos was sworn in as president and promised to continue fighting rebel groups. Santos is holding out a fig leaf to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia or Fark saying he's ready to open peace talks with the group but the fark has not responded and is known for the use of car bombs in its long struggle. Juan Ferraro NPR News Bogota. More heavy rains and landslides are being reported out of northwestern China where mudslides in the past week have killed more than 11 hundred people. Hundreds more remain missing. The National Weather Center is forecasting up to three and a half inches more rain

in the coming days in China. A former financial manager convicted of trying to fake his own death in a Florida plane crash last year reportedly will plead guilty to security fraud charges in Indiana. The Associated Press reports Mark Schrenker is agreeing to a plea deal in which he had served 10 years in jail. Schrenker is accused of cheating investors out of more than a million dollars. I'm Lakshmi Singh NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from the NE E Casey Foundation whose kids count is a state by state look at child well-being and the important role of data at a ECF dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show when it comes to food in America. There is no end of contradictions. We have an obesity crisis alongside a hunger epidemic in the land of supersize plenty. Well my guest Doug

rouse sees all of this is connected and he's working to do something about it. He's a former president of Trader Joe's and currently he's an advanced leadership fellow at Harvard studying food waste and healthier eating. He also sits on the board of overseers at WGBH to grab welcome. Thank you it's great to be here. Why study food waste. Well in my 31 years with Trader Joe's and before that for years in the food industry it always astonished me how much absolutely perfectly good food is thrown out at the end of each day at the retail level. And in a you know I get mailings just like everyone else and I listen to the news and hear that the hunger is growing in America. We always have some serious issues with the distribution. And it just seemed as the richest food nation in the history of the world to have people that have food insecurity or hunger didn't make much sense so I want to study it now. Let's just be clear when we say food waste you know my mind goes to rotting vegetables that's not what we're talking about though.

No I mean to some degree we can say that but the USDA in 1907 commissioned a large study and it was astonishing to find that at the end of that 40 percent of all the food grown in America has never consumed most of that occurs waste in the fields or in processing. But a percentage of it occurs at retail. And I was hearing I want to focus on because that's what I knew. And we're talking about food that you know 10 minutes earlier would sell for full retail but 10 minutes after closing goes into the dumpster and on the way to a landfill The astonishing thing too is you start to research this is a quarter of all the fresh water in America is used for ground water goes towards producing this food waste. And along with 300 million barrels of oil. Wow. That's so we're really talking big dollars here. Yeah. And we're also talking about his retail levels only two to three percent of the food waste. That's astonishing small yet. That alone is five point four billion pounds a year. So that's billion with a b. It's a lot of food.

Now anybody listening is going to think I know I've heard my my grocer whatever. I know they're giving away food that's been slightly damaged. I also know that even before they give away that you can go to the shelf where that they'll tell you it's a day old or whatever and I can buy it more cheaply so how is this still happening beyond that. Well it's a really good question and I think that I think the answer is that first of all there are many states including Massachusetts where it's regulated that you cannot distribute out a code product. So if you what does that mean out of code. Well it means for instance you have a loaf of bread it's a sell by. August 12th at the end of business today they cannot legally distribute that to a food bank or anyone else. And so therefore that's not true in all states but it it's true that when you have a product that's been regular That's where food safety issues primarily of course liability I get no liability and I'm just just food safety issues. I think it's you know it's it's a complex problem it's like many things the more you dig

into it the more you find that it has interconnected mineral related parties in the same way for me when I started to look at food waste. It started as a supply side issue. I mean I knew the retail industry had all this food and then I also I'm getting mailings from Feeding America and Greater Boston Food Bank that you know hunger and shortages are real things you think well it's just it's just connecting the dots a logistic SU if you would. The more you look at it the more you realize that well it's also a demand side issue that the real issue in America is that it's not just that hunger in America is not enough calories but as a stereo you know the cliche goes that it's eating the wrong calories. And for economic reasons that decisions are being made as we know of to consume soda for instance instead of. Milk for kids because it's cheaper. Let me pick up on because you're also saying that we as consumers contributed to food waste. I mean you know listen and lay it all on the retailers that we do too. And I'm going to tell my own little story. I'd like a small cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts. Thank you very much. They will not sell

me that or they will but I'll have to pay twice as much. So if I buy a medium cup then I'm you know paying a reasonable price for it. So what happens. I throw it away. This is ridiculous. Yeah I think that there's been a lot of stories I've read for instance that the small sort of fast food chain today is the same size as a large back in the 60s. And I think we've seen this in you know the documentary on supersize you know did a lot about this. I mean the other night I was at a movie with a friend and of course you buy popcorn and you feel like an idiot if you buy the small one because for a dollar or $2 more you get one that's two or three times the size of course they always tell you this. Not that you would need to eat it. You should eat it or even would eat it. Exactly. And I end up getting the small by the way I do resist that. Now you are a part of this program that's brand new at Harvard so let's talk about that for a moment which is affording you an opportunity to sort of look at this this whole problem globally. It's called the Advanced leadership fellowship. And what it really does is take folks like yourself with a high level

of expertise in many areas and are pulling across the disciplines of Harvard University the business school the Kennedy School all of them to allow you to think about ways in which to solve significant social problems especially those affecting health and welfare and children and the environment with a focus on community and public service. So what is the benefit of having someone like yourself with the kind of expertise that you have had at Trader Joe's now able to presumably because you you know have to work for real in the way you worked in the real world. So you know what it takes to get something done move to the next step and implement that which you have come up with while you've been studying. Well it's a great question and first of all this this program I'm delighted with it's a wonderful opportunity. First of all to work with the faculty. I want to. Kudo's to Rosabeth Moss Kanter. David Gergen and Barry Bloom and Peter Zimmerman the people who put this together

we this year there are 22 cohorts in this program that are just wonderful group of people very skilled from both public policy and from the corporate world. And the idea behind it really is taking people that have had success and experiencing what they have done in one career and are ready to transition. They want to make a change in some way to tackle some large social ills. As you mentioned health you know poverty education etc. and what I liked about it what attracted me to the program was that it was self directed in free ranging so that you got to look at what project attracted you from your own background experience and that the most important thing to me was it wasn't to come up with another white paper you know to really do something to a theory. But the idea is in the whole emphasis is you're ready to actually do something either in joining and you know after mapping the terrain figuring out here's the best organization out there. And I think I've got something to offer let me see what I can do. Or forming another organization that can either help networking coordinate the existing ones

or actually start its own venture. Well you have an idea about how you think you could move some of these food ways once you share it. Well I have I have lots of ideas I like to preface this by saying that I'm still in the midst of this project so I don't want this to come across as conclusions. And certainly I wouldn't want any FedEx and U.P.S. driver out there right now too. You know I think this was ill hatched but the problem is quite clear if you look at the supply side which is that every supermarket restaurant etc. in America at the end of the day has a product that you know they were able to use. And right now only about 25 percent of the retailers are actually part of the Feeding America food bank program so they've got a large number of retailers that just are not able to and or or don't have the resources to get this to a food bank or soup kitchen etc. So the idea was well either can go out and try to attract donations to hire trucks and drivers all across America quite expensive with our dedicated trucks about to do this or you look at people that are already out on the road.

Who is it that already knows how to pick up and deliver cheaper than anybody in the world. And you have to go to well I mean obviously FedEx and U.P.S. and UBS and United parcels. I mean post office. So if you can get the people who are already out there already have the truck and driver in some way to be incentivised have it make sense to them. Then I think you've got you know most of the problem left and the point I want to make about this is this isn't like Alzheimer's where we actually don't know you know how to cure it. We don't know what really causes it. We don't really have the answers we're searching you know obviously and much money and dedication is going toward solving that. This is something we actually do here's the food and here's what we're the people who are the people. It's really about do we have the will as a nation do we have do we have the will as a country to take care of this. Because it does this isn't rocket science it's really just blocking and tackling as I say it's you know connecting the dots. Let me just make people aware once again of why it's important to connect some of these dots dots on the hunger side. There are according to project bread's

2009 status report on hunger five hundred fifty four thousand people in Massachusetts struggling to put food on the table. Now eight point three percent. That's what it totals two and half of those people are really hungry. Eight point three percent means their food insecure that's the term they like to use. Maybe they get some maybe they don't. And a large part of these are children. There are several initiatives trying to work toward feeding kids but also trying to feed them nutritionally which is the other half of what you're trying to doing in your program. Project bread has a chef and school initiative we interviewed one of those top chefs who's working very hard to try to improve that. These are all small initiatives but they can add up in a big way. So if you have somebody like yourself who is a big guy who's run a big corporation I know I'm serious you can look out there and pull these pieces together. I think this is a good thing. Well thank you and certainly you know I think that you're right I think that you know this is this is one of those things where it's going to take a lot of

both small local initiatives and actions and some state you know local and even federal coordination and support I think to really crack this is this is becoming the Wall Street Journal had in May a front page section of well in their weekend Journal they really dealt with this whole issue and basically they estimated that this is a 35 to 40 billion dollar problem and growing rapidly. And so this is this is a serious problem for all of us for anyone who thinks that this may or may not apply to them. The reality is that when you've got the numbers that you're talking about here it impacts all of us. And I think that there are some wonderful things going on. Absolutely some some wonderful things. Up and down the country and the various touch points in food. I think that you know one of the things that for instance you know we have to look at is that. It's when you when you get into the problem on the demand side which is creating interest or how to use nutritional food there's a

lot of factors that play in everything from as we know advertising tie ins with fast food chains to stimulate you know purchases because of the action figure you know and cetera to the fact that there's just a lack of nutritional education. And when you even get into the stat program the values because food stamps right that you know one of the things that I'm looking at and just you know mapping is what would it take to start to incentivize and give credits or rewards for you know food. Behavior that actually maps the food pyramid or another is better eating enough of to agree that someone eats more nutritionally. They actually get more credit cause we know that in the long run it's going to cost us a lot less in health care lost job etc.. Well I mean if I'm expecting anybody be able to do it I expect you to be able to because as the president of Trader Joe's you brought Trader Joe's to the east

coast you branded that company. I mean one could say why do we need another grocery store. You know but you've made it it's own thing and with a particular kind of characteristic that people were attracted to. So you are in a position now to figure out how to brand this. Are we at a point I think we are where people are becoming more aware we've get so many documentaries looking at the issues around food and Food Inc. Almost made it to you know make get an Oscar this year one of wonderful document exactly. So we're it's we're thinking about it even if we don't act it out personally in our own lives we know something about this right. Why I think it really isn't an idea whose time has come I think that obviously Jamie Oliver and Michelle's Let's Move. There's a lot of momentum and attention and I think the timing is right and more than that I hope that the will here and the recognition that this is everyone's problem this isn't someone else's problem that this is something that we as a country need to address before it becomes

a much larger problem. And I think that the time is right now. You know I don't I don't have aspirations to you know solve all the problems this is a very complex it's a very large issue. But to the degree that one can even be a small catalyst for it then it makes getting out of bed in the morning worthwhile in about a year. You know you're going to finish you going to finish up this program before a year but let's say you know five years I give you five years from now. What would you like to see happening based on what you've learned and what you'd like to begin to resolve with around these issues. Well I think that I mean one should have as I say big hairy audacious goals I think that one should dream dream large and you know I often like the fact that you know Martin Luther King didn't have a five year plan he had a dream so and the idea dream is that the dream here is that we've got the ability to feed all of our citizens nutritional food that they can afford and that we have the food. It's right now literally going to dumpsters and becoming a problem in our landfill. You look at I mean just from an

environmental issue what it took to produce that food and then now with methane and all this other stuff I mean it becomes something where it just makes no sense. Hopefully by raising awareness by. Bringing about some of the parties that are interested in this I think that we can several years from now look back and say real progress has been made on becoming a healthier America and having less food actually make it to the dumpster. What are your own eating habits now. Well I try I try to eat well I do I do enjoy my heart medicine every now and then. It's called dark chocolate. OK but I think that I think the keys I like. I think that the key is to have a balanced life. Can you try to try to exercise try to eat you know within moderation. And you know you try to be aware of what good nutrition. All right. Well we're expecting a lot of you can if you're about to be a big Harvard grad. We've been speaking with Doug Rao He's the former president of Trader Joe's and currently he's an advance

leadership fellow at Harvard studying food waste and healthier eating. He also sits on the board of overseers at WGBH. Doug Rau thank you so much for joining us. Great to be here thanks Kelly. Up next it's a look at the governor's race. No not here in Little Rhode Island. Stay with us. With the. Support for WGBH comes from you. And from the Office of Cultural Affairs and special events. Local area restaurants open their doors for Restaurant Week. August

1st through the 15th. LOWELL a city of world culture. More info at culture is cool work. And from the New England mobile book fair in Newton New England's independent bookstore. The Book Fair is your summer reading list headquarters. More details online at any book fair dot com. That's an e-book fair dot com and from Skinner auctioneers and appraisers of antiques and fine art you might consider auction when downsizing a home or disposing of an estate. Sixty auctions annually 20 collecting categories Boston in Marlborough online at Skinner Inc dot com in 1904 filmmaker Ken Burns told the story of America's past time simply titled baseball. This is a big deal. I'm fit 150 years into nine full and now Ken Burns has returned to the park with his four hour documentary that 10th airing to include the historic 2004 World Series victory by the Boston Red Sox. Set aside your copy of this updated collection at a price below retail at

WGBH dot org. Police were stumped by the murder of a restaurant manager until Richard Walter saw the crime scene and concluded it wasn't a robbery. I found then that the primary focus was an intense anger against the victim. On the next FRESH AIR we talk with Richard Walter about investigating cold cases and with Michael Capuzzo author of the murder room. Join us. If you've recently received WGBH ask you to. Remember. To. Please return it as soon as you can. August 3 1st marks. The end of the fiscal year. To. Gauge your support in any amount will make a big difference. Thanks. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. Today we're turning our attention to the governor's race in Rhode Island where the Republican turned Independent Lincoln Chafee and Democratic state treasurer Frank Caprio are in a statistical tie.

Joining me to talk about the race and what it says about Rhode Island to have these two men leading the pack is Robert Whitcomb. Robert Whitcomb is the vice president and editorial page editor of The Providence Journal. Robert welcome. Welcome back. Hi Kelly nice to hear from you. Well you gotta tell us why this race has settled into these two men big names Lincoln Chafee was a former U.S. senator his father was a rather famous famous National Day year Senator John H A T was also Navy secretary before he was appointed of the senatorship if you will by former Governor Chafee was the mayor of the second biggest city in Rhode Island Not that that means much nationally but a Warwick Rhode Island So he's he's very well known both in terms of his own political career and his family's And he's a member of an old what you'd call 19th century mercantile aristocratic family. He's our equivalent of the Boston Brahmins.

OK. And the other guy is a guy called Frank Caprio who's the treasurer of the state. And he comes from a very well-known political family to kind of a well-off obviously Italian-American family and he's got sort of a spacey background he went to Harvard and wears Arbre tie and nobody's perfect. He encircled socially maybe a little more conservative than Linc Chafee Linc Chafee is a species of the Rockefeller Republican that we used to know a lot more of C a lot more of so these are two big statewide names sees the Caprio family. Nother thing about Caprio his father is a judge and the chairman of the Board of Higher Education in Rhode Island and his father is also a television personality has a show called khat in Providence where people in this courtroom are dragged in for parking violations and stuff and the good humored lectures them so he's Frank Capra's father is sort of a show business celebrity of the sort

around here. But I should intercede maybe wrote amounts too small to even have a governor. Oh I don't know why. OK I'm going to send the e-mails to Roger to get lost. You know what are the philosophical the ideological differences between these two. Yeah I'd say they aren't really that different. Chafee is not a Tea Party Republican by any means and he's running as an Independent his background as a liberal Republican Caprio is socially in terms of social as a problem or conservative is a fairly standard kind of lunch pail Democrat around here you know going to a Truman Democrat and I don't think they're eating it with either one of you have a major decreasing the size of state government and I don't think there'd be a major change in tax policy like that. I do think that probably

go after pensions because here as in most other states and the you know the public employee pensions have become a real problem. And whatever whoever gets elected is going to have to deal with that. But I think this is this is really not that much difference between Chafee and Caprio I think in the way and in their policies their styles are very different. Chafee is sort of quirky and I would say whimsical but sometimes a little cereal. Well Frank Caprio is a more you know sort of old fashion sort of square jaw. Politician you know usually people aren't paying attention until after Labor Day that's that's standard rep Brown University just did a poll and shows that there's a dead heat between the two so somebody is paying attention. Yeah and I think actually a lot of people are because they're both well known there are some of the races by either the independents and others that there are a couple Republicans are duking it out.

But I don't think you know unless we're hit by an asteroid or something. I don't think the Republicans a guy called Victor Moffatt or John robot Thai are really going to be big players this really is between changing Caprio I think largely because they're well-known names Chafey because of his past jobs and his sort of aristocratic family and Caprio because he is treasurer. And you know it was in a time of Siskel crisis and it's. Good looking and you know kind of spiffy So they're there. They're both put it most they're both well known to most Rhode Islanders. They boast and quite I think in their own way it's quite acceptable to most Rhode Islanders. They are both of course looking Davey has much more money is but oh well indirectly from this the company I work for. Oh it's OK. Life is a big heiress to to stock in the old Providence

Journal company when this place was a merchant of the h below company she made a lot of money off that. Oh well that's not one of those people have been one of my my point by bringing that up is that you know they would be considered elite in a lot of circles you know and that would be a bad word but it doesn't seem to know you know you really is a very good point. Sure dumps like Caprio is not super rich and he's well off the salaries are well off and while Lincoln Chafee is very rich but this it served a funny tradition right on it goes way back of occasionally electing a wrister Kratz to these jobs. Sometimes the governorship Senator Claiborne Pell whom I know you will remember the current U.S. Senator Foreign Relations Committee chairman Sheldon Whitehouse the current person. Current U.S. senator I mean they're all sort of blue bloods and there is a sort of a strong tradition in Rhode Island of electing its almost sort of futile in a

way of electing the aristocrats to certain jobs. Yeah it's kind of interesting since Rhode Island is leading in unemployment. Yeah I mean I was actually behind. OK finally I'm going you know we're right up there. You're right we're on they're usually in the top three or four. Let me remind my listeners that I'm speaking with Robert Whitcomb who is the vice president and editorial page editor of The Providence Journal. And we're talking about the governor's race in Rhode Island where Republican turned Independent Lyndon Chafee Lincoln Chafee is facing off Democratic state treasurer Frank Caprio. Now here's something that's interesting. They don't appear to be going for the we're all just we're both just like you kind of you know Roach which is what everybody is doing across the country everybody is running now. I just like you. In fact Tim Cahill in Massachusetts uses those very words.

I know it. You know the proverbial guy you want to have a beer with. Or like George W. Bush. Yeah yeah. Who would you rather have appeared with Bush or Kerry. Well why isn't that there are there there are temp there approach in Rhode Island. Well I don't think I don't think Rhode Island is or that you know I don't think they're that swayed by sort of the common man routine I think and also I mean Caprio to be Caprio is more certain or in that direction than Senator Chafee but the situation here of you've seen a few other states sometimes in Massachusetts certainly in New York. Well we're going to elect people who are better than us is that the right word but sort of above it all was a little bit of that. You know Also no one would believe it would with Linc Chafee everyone knows about his background it's well-known now but he's got tons of money and about his family and a lot of people find that kind of alluring in the same way they like the Roosevelts and Rockefellers Rockefeller in New York.

But let me remind you that George Bush did make that work very well for Detroit. In workout he presented himself as one of the one of the guys it was fraudulent. I think he wasn't one of the guys abusing extremely rich preppy but it worked. And here I don't think there's surprisingly that's that approach is surprisingly ineffective in Rhode Island. OK well here's something else. President Clinton former President Clinton came in and stumped for Caprio and Lincoln Chafee in the 2008 election backed Obama so we have to assume that you know he'll get some Obama support or at least you know even on the low level he'll get soon. So we are a set up here for another kind of Clinton Obama endorsement battle. I just saw earlier this week that when that happened Obama beat out Clinton in Colorado because yeah that's right you know there's maybe a surprise to many of you. I don't think Haley is going to have much impact one way or the other I will say the Clintons are actually

the smallness of the state are actually. They like Rhode Island a lot they're here a lot partly because one of their big fundraisers in the past Jack McConnell lives here. But I don't think you know the Obama Clinton thing is really how much of cycle one way or the other. And I think I think you know. Chafey you will get some of the old Yankee Republicans to vote for him and he'll get some of the liberals because of his stand against the Iraq war and his opposition to George W. Bush in general while Caprio would tend to get the more the kind of traditional Democrats. What does it mean if Caprio wins and what does it mean if Chafee wins. I think of Chafee wins I think he'll be a restructuring kind of a reconfiguration the parties around here that's a very good question. I think if he wins remember well listeners should remember that he's running isn't it Bennett. I think it could act a whole sort of a kind of a kind of fragment and that kind of re coalesce and new parties around here. I

think it will change the Republican Party maybe make the Republican Party here even more kind of coherently conservative and it will probably change the Democrats a bit. If Chafee does win I think it's going to have a big impact on kind of who's And which party if Caprio wins I don't leave much impact. You know the long term structure of the party is right here but certainly Chafee wins as an independent which is what he's running for. It's going to. It's going to cause a real shift in a real real sort of geological shift in the party structure. One of the trends that was noted this past week everybody's looking for a trend is that Democrats tended to stick with established candidates where Republicans just wanted the newbies and and some new faces. That's kind of the throw the rascals out exactly the very very very astute point. I think the Democrats the Republicans are the angry party with the kind of the

negative emotion behind them and they want to throw everybody out. You know and even if it means say electing you know wrestling the whole goal of the ticket to the US to the U.S. Senate their very act activated by that but as I know in the letters to the editor business people are generally far more energized by opposition than by support and that's sort of the problem of Democrats this year all you know and kind of hovering over it. President Obama and I think you see that everywhere here I think it's a little bit more a matter of personalities you know whether you like Chafee as a person and his sort of history is family history or Caprio more. I don't think it actually done that much to at parties there is sort of the tea party ish wing of that what's left of the Republican Party here that's angry and you know wants to cut all the taxes and all that stuff but it's I don't think it's very important here. Nothing like it would be in you know West for example.

Is it going to stay as tight as it is now or as the Browns posting system to suggest. I think so yeah I would think so because they're both well-known characters and given some scandal and I don't you know some personal scandal I can't think of one at this point something would come out. We are talking about Bill Clinton here will all sorts of surprises and then turns and these are in their personal lives these people are rather stodgy. So I think it very close. Who would win I know somebody put a gun to my head I'd have to give the edge to Caprio simply because it is a Democratic state sort of a you know attractive candidate and well-spoken but Chafee certainly could win and you know there's a lot of goodwill toward him. So there's going to be a lot of hand-shaking around like oh you know gay mood. Yeah it's really personal. Yeah going to see a lot of the ologies you'd see in a rage for you know Governor of Tennessee or something like that. I've been talking with Robert Whitcomb. He's the vice president and editorial page editor of The Providence Journal.

Robert Whitcomb come back again soon I always go with I love to love your show favor and lighting. Okay bye bye bye bye. Up next we continue the Shakespeare conversation with our arts and culture contributor eugène called Don't touch that dial will be back after this break stay with us. Support for WGBH comes from you and from M. Steiner and sons in Boston and Natick. Open for the Massachusetts sales tax holiday August 14th and 15th. Offering pianos from Steinway Essex Boston and Roland on the web at M Steinert dot com and from Newberry court overlooking the submarine river

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of bringing quality independent program. Dues to NPR production studio special event. They're all very expensive. But if you agree that public radio is worth every penny then please get involved with a contribution before August 30. Just click the donate link at WGBH dot org. This is eighty nine point seven. WGBH Boston NPR station for trusted voices and a local conversation with FRESH AIR and the Kelly Crossley Show the new eighty nine point seven WGBH. I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. My guest Eugene Co. Our arts and culture contributor has been taking in the local Shakespeare productions that have graced our stages this summer. He is a professor of English at Wellesley College. You didn't go welcome it. Thank you thank you for having me here it's a pleasure always. Well I want to let our listeners know that this is a conversation that is

framed with a lot of gravitas because Shakespeare is your meat and potatoes. So this is what you teach you. You write and talk about it quite a bit and are an expert in it so we're anxious to find out what you thought about these local Shakespeare Productions. And I'll tell you OK which one would you like me to start. Well we talked yesterday with Seth Gilliam who starred in fellow always starring you know fellow and Shakespeare in the park here in the Boston Common. And I thought it was fabulous but I was just. Visitor right man an expert. I enjoyed Seth Gilliam's segment yesterday I thought he was very articulate and he gave a great account of what makes a fellow interesting for him. I thought his performance was also terrific it was powerful it was moving and I thought richly layered it was not a one note Othello by any means. And I should also say that I was very impressed by his delivery. By which I mean that he did a terrific job of combining

naturalistic speech rhythms with the musicality and gorgeous flourishes of the verse to make the language the extraordinary language of Othello seem organic and real. And of these times I mean we're talking. A little injury works right seems to fit right in today. That's right you read the language and you of course are aware of the linguistic range and depth of the fellow speeches and you might think that you need to claim this because you have elements that are at they can rip Sadik as well as things that are really explosive with a kind of tortured muscularity that you might not associate with everyday speech. And yet I thought Seth Gilliam did a wonderful job of respecting the extraordinary register of the language while making it real and accessible to us here in the 21st century. OK what about Richard the Third in Lenox Massachusetts performed by Shakespeare and Company. I thought the actors there also were were

terrific and the Richard stars John totalist and Douglas Thompson another African-American actor who two years ago performed a magnificent Richard the Third on stage at Shakespeare and Company. And likewise this is a play that's in some ways even more difficult to perform because the language is even more remote and the history is so remote and yet I thought they did a wonderful job of making this exciting accessible and relevant to today audiences cheering. They were engaged they were participating and they really and this may seem paradoxical if you know the story of the third but they felt a sense of path those when the villain this evil tyrannical villain dies at the end. Well back up a little bit and give us briefly the synopsis of both of them and why both these plays are quite relevant in these times. Well Othello First of all I think is a wonderful

love story and love stories heart eternal. But it's great because in part Paradoxically it's a wretched play to watch. As you can remember since the villain succeeds all too easily and taking a heroic man who is partly characterized by supreme self composure and reducing him to spasms of murderous violence under false pretenses and you may know that the play has a history of being interrupted in performance by people who can't take it anymore. I can barely say you know I'll tell you but I think that is partly because. Despite whatever anger and frustration you may feel towards a fellow for being so foolish and gullible that you do agree at some level with his sentiment when he contemplates murdering the Moana and says oh ya go the pity of it right. You send

that horrible sense of loss again because I think this is a love story that tells the story of a love that is heroic in its power and sweep. Remember this is a marriage between a black man and a white woman. In a society that considers such a marriage to be abhorrence and horrific that could be spoken about right now. Right actually. If he's purposely set a society not in those times that a man can be the most dignified person in the world and have achieved the status of women and power and OK and the themes in both hello and Richard the Third are what are you reading into both of them because we're talking about you know the evilness and the love story of a fellow and Richard the Third we're talking about

damaged physically and emotionally. Richard and how he interacts with the people around him What are you reading from that for for our dime today. Well with with and with particularly with President Obama right now I'm thinking about it. I was going to say I saw I saw both place through the lens of President Obama's situation right now with regard to a fellow I think what links the fellow with President Obama is their hybrid status. Right. They are the ultimate insiders in having a chief such power. And yet they are still fundamentally outsiders because of their race and you may remember in Othello There's a curious inconsistency that captures this this situation that's easy to overlook. The play begins you may. You might remember with Jago and Roderigo the hapless Gaul who split suing doesn't amount to going to the house of the Moana to

inform her father that her whites run away with the black woman a black guy was right. Thank you so using the most racist language possible even now now very now an old black ram is topping your white. You awake the citizens with the bell or else the devil will make a grandsire love you and he conjures up images of the black man as this animalistic sexual predator. And then warns the father of the consequences of miseducation and the father of course takes the bait and he confronts a fellow twice once in public once in the streets and once at the Senate with similarly racist language. Are you suggesting people are taking the bait now with No. Well the parallel that I see with Obama is that like Obama a fellow never takes the bait and he is not provoked. And he and he remains very self composed and I thought Seth Gilliam did a wonderful job of this well until the end but not

the beginning right. He is what he is so he has that habitually ingrained self restraint that is necessary for four black men of power in the public sphere. I said OK and then you may remember a fellow very self confidently asserts that he deserves someone like this the man and he says he that chooses life and being from that embroil sees it cetera which raises the question if he is so confident. Why does he elope. Why doesn't he simply marry does the Mona in public. I think I think that speaks volumes about Othello the character and reflects something about Obama and his anxieties unspoken and unstated anxieties. As a black man I would say this and I want to get your take on Richard the Third in the same way. Let's remember that he wooed Desdemona by articulating his bona fida is you know that was the basis of it not as a person per say but here's what

I have accomplished so I thought that was interested here is the United States perhaps saying oh maybe we can like this guy because of all of that he has accomplished and we can have a relationship with him in that way. Right. But the one thing he's not allowed to be is the angry black man. OK. Well what about Richard the Third Way. How does how it's got him how do you see with President Obama Administration that Richard is the opposite of of Obama. And I say this with a bit of wistfulness. It's not that I would want to see Obama murdered his way to power but I'd like to see that single minded pursuit of an ideal and and a willingness. To chop off people's heads metaphorically as Richard famously does off with his head is one of the famous lines from the play when he is confronting his political enemies. So he gets mad. Well I'm very sure he will get mad. Yeah right

Richard will stop at nothing. And he's also a terrific showman and he's a master of spin he's a he's defined in part by a brilliant theatricality and he's an outsider. It wasn't his head you get that's right is his handicap but he's ruthless and he's willing to use his power to further his ends. Now it seems to me that Obama is too cautious as a politician. And that's obviously a reflection of his temperament and I think of a certain kind of philosophical skepticism. But my sense of Obama is that he doesn't go the full distance in being ruthless in the political sphere because of his fear that ruthlessness in politics by a black man will be associated with the angry black man which further is associated with again. And I don't think you have that the angry black man for people who are wondering what do you mean by that. It's the birth of the nation's story. It's the idea that

the angry black man is a threat to America and threat to the image of America that's presented in the film of the birth of a nation. The innocent white female version the way does the Mona is right and associated with the sense of the predatory outsider is again a non-native darkness that can infiltrate and take over the country. So all of this stuff about how Obama is a Muslim he's not an American he was he's not a Native American. All of this I think is associated with the sense that Obama is a threat of darkness from the outside and Obama like Othello is 0 0 is conscious of his dual status even to the end you may remember a fellow when he kills himself refers to a turban and I'm a Lincoln and Turk Wright who beat a Venetian introduce the state. But then it turns out that references to himself and he twisted it around and says I took by the throat the circumcised the

dog and smote him thus and he killed himself. So he is both a dark outsider a threat as well as the insider who defends the state against that threat. And I thought will never overcome comes that duality or hybridity. And it seems to me and I don't want to psychologize over. Yeah. But it seems to me Obama is still plagued by that and I think his advisors like Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel in some respects played the role of Iago in echoing Obama's deepest anxieties to him. You may remember one of the tactics that Jago uses is simply to echo those words honest honest my lord you know he's right and he says I haven't doubt I coerced me as if there were some monster too hideous to be shown. Yeah and he

goes on to say that the monster is the green eyed monster of jealousy that the mock the that the media feeds upon but the real monster I think is that fellow's sense of himself as an animalistic other which is really the projection from the racist imagination that he has internalized which we've seen some of politically out here in the political sphere now. Yeah I mean it's there's this is a time of a great amount of political division and anxiety as you've articulated. You know both in these plays but right now is that the reason I'm guessing that they're doing heavy political drama is local. Productions as opposed to you know the Shakespeare companies that might be great for the summer. That's very funny that you say that because last summer at the very same venue's they were playing light hearted hearted comedies or comedies that in the past generation had been given a dark dark tinge but which have now returned to their sort of comic exuberance. And I'm thinking

about Twelfth Night at Shakespeare and Company last summer as well as Twelfth Night in New York. It's not unusual for it to have a dark ending. But last summer they were both a sow celebrate story right. And I attribute that part in part to the hope that Obama raised. But now after one year boom we're right back to the darkness. And do you think we'll stay there for a while I mean it's interesting how art reflects what's happening in the moment. I'm afraid I hate to say this it pains me to say this Carol. About I'm afraid that that it will. I mean that's my take on you of course know much more about this than I do and have the pulse of the political scene in America. But my sense is that Obama has irretrievably damaged unself and that that he will never fully recover or restore himself to the position he was in

at the beginning of his presidency. So people are listening and they're going to do as well. If the play were to get all this you know if you want to ask that question first of all the risk to the third is historical play about history and politics and the pathways to power and a fellow is in addition to being a simple line love story a play about the effects of race and how race intersects with gender but also of how race affects those who are in power and how they are perceived in that society so no I'm not making this up. It's right there. That's right. The plays resonate today because Shakespeare was so prescient. I don't want to just repeat the adage that he is universal. But but these plays I think do demonstrate the universality

of his writing. Now part of your expertise is also in performance and I have to say I was extremely impressed with the performance of Shakespeare in the park here. And you've been impressed with both production of Othello and the one in leggings and yes with both of the third. The rich of 30. However I really should confess that I found some of the roles in the Commonwealth's experience Othello were rather weak. So that's the one here in Boston on that. That's right. I think there's nowhere in your review or head. OK. Right yeah. Actors need to make the distinction between naturalizing the language and conversational lising it to the point of deflating it and reducing and robbing it of its poetry. OK. All right well that's a criticism they can use next summer I guess for right now. They're both pretty good we've been talking Shakespeare with our arts and culture contributor huge Inco. He's a professor of English at Wellesley College. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.

A fellow runs through August the 15th. For more information about Showtime's visit com shakes dot org that SEO im im s h a k e s dot org and Shakespearean Company's production of Richard the Third runs through September the 5th. To learn more visit Shakespear dot org. This is the Calla Crossley Show where production of WGBH radio Boston's NPR station or news and culture.