Harvard Book Store; WGBH Forum Network; David Edwards on The Lab: Creativity and Culture

Yes I think that's a tough area. So if you think about how we realize dreams. Do so sort of an experimentalist in a lab. And so students here at Harvard University often come to the university dreaming to change the world in some way and are experimenting every semester that they sort of choose a course outline for their semester and at the end of the semester having tested certain hypotheses they made about their future as a writer or a physicist or whatever it is they make certain sort of deductions. Often we formulate their hypothesis as a professor often saying those students right at those moments of the skin to nose in their experimentation where they sort of are kind of wondering what those results meant and making new hypotheses and kind of projecting themselves into the future and that's kind of how creators change the world through experimentation we create labs to curate experimentation in these labs. Have different forms and different sort of methods depending upon the nature of experimentation the goals that we have

as we have design labs and muscular biology labs and cinema labs. Over the last 50 years there's been incredible growth in the investment in labs sort of a defining feature of the contemporary app is that we invest as many of you know between 1 and 3 percent of gross domestic product in the developed world in a certain kind of science lab which is an incredible bet on what is fundamentally a open ended process of experimentation. And we do so because over the last 50 years we've developed this really interesting translational lab model where experimentation quickly moves to production and a particular kind of production often commercial and military production. As a scientist here at Harvard University and having been involved in technology for the last 15 years

a couple things. Sort of strike me about the limits of the current model of innovation which is sort of change the world around us and many obvious ways. One is that as a creator I'm very limited to the kinds of ideas that I can develop in a science lab and to the nature of my dialogue with the public is very limited and it's limited to my peers and so when I publish which is the principal mode of communication in a science lab my publications are reviewed by a very small group of people often who I know and who give me feedback which is high quality it works it's very effective as a way of developing my idea but nevertheless gives me a limited dialogue with the public in the public generally has a limited understanding of the innovation that's happening and so the world is sort of changing around us with a relatively. Little by and publicly and so there's all kinds of consequences to that and so that's

one of the negatives both from a political social or even environmental perspective but even from an scientists creator point of view the degree of dialogue even understanding how relevant my work is to sort of the aspirations of the planet is very limited. So I've been interested in a new kind of lab which is described in the book a kind of Arts and Design Lab which has many elements in common with the Bauhaus of a hundred years ago in which experimentation is artistic in design but at frontiers of science and where the value of experimentation is sort of threefold. There's an educational value. There's a cultural value and there's a commercial or humanitarian value. So if you look at. Silicon Valley or if you look at even Broadway these creative environments sort of translational environments have these three main value centers and so you have sort of Stanford University

where experimentation is happening. Technology experimentation and we're learning. And so these are open ended ideas often and we don't really know whether they'll be useful technologically but they're sort of educationally valuable. We've got an environment Silicon Valley where those ideas can sort of pop into a cultural setting which is the startup setting where nobody's making money. So there's this sort of thing that's going on which sort of culturally valuable and those who really understand the culture of Silicon Valley can sort of see startups and sort of understand that that's like a really high quality startup you know that make you money but there's sort of a cultural understanding of the experimentation and the value of experimentation and so culture as described in the book is this experimentation. We like what we see in Silicon Valley or frankly in off Broadway where I can be seeing performance and sort of if I appreciating the culture of Broadway can identify the stars and sort of the promise even though

people are falling on the stage and so and so there's a sort of culture which is connected to the experimentation which leads to a kind of a potential production which may be an IBM or a Broadway or some sort of an outcome that typically exist in a very creative environment like Silicon Valley or Broadway and so I'm interested in this in a new kind of innovation environment where experimentation is artistic and design and has these three centers education culture and production. And why. So the whole point of the lab is to offer a new book is to offer a new vision of a new kind of innovation environment where a dialogue with the public is much broader. Incubation is occurring not through peer reviewed publication as it does in the science lab rather through cultural exhibition and where outcomes of creative work is not exclusively

industrial but is also humanitarian and cultural and educational. And I'm interested in this environment as a sustainable innovation environment and the possibility of that being viral and having a similar kind of impact potentially as the science labs had today and with ramifications to education. At Harvard University or in our public schools to museums or cultural institutions and ultimately to commercial practice any humanitarian innovation and so that's the context of the book. The book is using lots of stories many of them are related to students here at Harvard University so the whole origin of the lab is at Harvard University and I wrote a book a couple years ago art science which sort of describes the origins of the lab and is anchored in this concept of. Many of us in her Harvard University environment could be in a louver environment who are creating

value in the environment and sort of finding the value drivers in the institution for the creative work that they're doing they're celebrated for their creation but not really encouraged for the kind of creative work that they do. And so the lab evolved through this reflection here at Harvard University and you'll find in the book the story told through the lives of creators many of them here at Harvard University. Stories are given related to ideas that move from these educational environments through these cultural environments to commercial environments and one of the stories that I talk a lot about is the wiff which is a way of breathing food and just a couple words about that before I read a little bit and then we have to take some questions. The whiff began as just an illustration of the kind of ideas that move through this environment. This is not an environment for ideas that actually percolate very effectively in existing innovation environment but for rather wild ideas like the idea of

breathing food which came up in a context of a lunch with a French chef and being a wild idea it seemed to be interesting. Gave it to some Harvard students to think about. And of course is the kind of precisely the kind of day I could not have sort of. Asked a student a graduate student to work on it encouraged my faculty members to be on a committee for the idea of breathing food and what is the point of breathing food. But it just seemed to be an interesting sort of experiment to do and so students at Harvard began that with pepper and all kinds of nasty things and eventually we came on the idea of chocolate and designed a kind of inhaler to do that and did an exhibition in Paris with the French Chef. And for a couple years the idea sort of percolated in all kinds of artistic environments as just sort of artistic experiment. And there was no obvious Tilla Terry utilitarian application of breathing chocolate today the idea is the basis of a company that's started up in London

and with major markets and energy and vitamins and other things but it began in a very open ended sort of artistic educational experimentation context where we would have been fine had the idea not moved any further than it did in the exhibition in Paris or in the presentation of a final. Project in my class. And so it is a fascinating environment for exploring wild ideas that can be commercially humanitarian in a humanitarian context or cultural context. High impact and yet driving education and cultural experimentation at the same time. So just a maybe a couple paragraphs to give you a sense of the idea so I just read the first page which sort of provides the context dreaming compels the passion of children and

visionaries alike. It is what allows us at a young age to imagine the long years of schooling and apprenticeship that lie ahead without abandoning the optimism and curiosity of childhood as it is also what allows us to pursue ideas that no one else dares imagine in the face of convention institutional rigidity and doubt. To dream is to believe in the possibility of experimentation. If we dream about swimming a great distance we are not perfectly certain we can swim so far not sure what obstacles we will face or how we will surmount them but we do believe in the possibility of the experiment nature of the lake the pool the rushing river becomes our lab our place of experimentation labs obviously come in various kinds of film labs Design Labs molecular biology labs we do experiments in labs that aim at outcomes which we call discoveries. We can't say with certainty what these discoveries will be nor can we determine when will achieve them but we can imagine that film labs will mostly make discoveries of relevance to films design labs to design a molecular biology labs to make their biology. This possibility of discovery encourages investment

by creators wishing to sustain dreams by labs to sustain creators and by supporters of labs hoping to sustain innovation in a world that is constantly in flux. This book is about a special kind of lab where creators. And society meet through cultural exhibition a new platform for innovation. Thank you very much I'd be happy to answer any questions. A. Yes. My course is called today how to create things and have them matter. And so it's a course in engineering in applied science yes 20 courses evolved over time. When I first came to Harvard in 2001 it was focused mostly on bio medical innovation

which is more of my background. It has evolved in the context of Harvard University to broadly reach out to concentration from literature to physics. I've focused really only on undergraduates and for the last several years the course has been. Broadly developing ideas in design and arts but frontiers of science is taught in the winter and spring now and and now co teach it with Rob how I should also point out that there's a number of both at Harvard University and outside of the university funding organizations part of that this kind of learning is to bet on student dreams and so at the end of the semester students can receive funding to go around the world and learn through carrying their ideas forward and has led to various not for profits and for profits

around the world. So I think one of the sort of riffing off of your question one of the challenges at Harvard University and even more broadly is in a world where information is no longer the primary value driver of a university my students come to class completely not believing that I'm the filter of information they need to kind of chart their future. The question is what is a university about. And I think we're mostly coming around to the belief that our role is to help among other things students. Imagine. Their future careers and so I really have no clue. If you wish to become a cleanse you're really what a chemical engineer will be or frankly whether that even chemical engineering will exist in the future and so there's this importance of teaching students to teach themselves the

realisation of dreams. And that's the kind of thing we're experimenting with and as you can imagine once you move down that path the question is does the education and at the end of the semester does and in four years and does it stop at the limits of the campus and so it's an exciting and you know sort of fascinating time in higher education. Yes. Well the more empty they are the fewer books that are around the better. And so these are classes where sort of the goal is for me to be sitting where you're sitting as soon as possible and for you to be up here kind of saying telling me about your dream as soon as possible and. And so indeed when we first began to think about lab environments and the kinds of things we need in the lab and what we thought about all kinds of things like same kind of blocks and

balls and that. But in fact all of that is sort of a stumbling block to just the imagination and so we tend to look for environments that are sort of surprising and are breaking the mold and so when we do at the end of the semester our class final presentations we sometimes do it in the Globe Theater and students are kind of awkwardly on a theater stage and kind of. And so the more the environment does matter but they tend to be more black black box kind of environments than this kind of environment. Yes. While there's multiple problems that were in that age today where institutional models from educational institutions like Harvard University to cultural institutions like the Louve to even the if you will the commercial institutions are a

challenge and fundamentally changing massively. So let's take each one. And so I have just spoken about education TAKE THE LOOF So the Louve which is one of the organizations to the core of our network that we've created is actually in Paris. And it's a cultural institution where we do exhibits of ideas of the kind I'm describing. We're right next to the roof and so we work with the live in the loo has eight million people who come a year it was five million just a few years because really you know incredible and so it seems that this is a pretty fascinating 60 percent of the people who come to live never It's a first visit and it's never it never really changes. 85 percent of the people come to see three paintings actually now the loo is a massive organization runs always painted if you go in the loo look what's happening. This is like racing through the everybody's racing with their maps looking for the Mona Lisa. And so there's this which is highly perplexing and troubling for curators at the live of course who are wondering well what is our cultural

mission here and why is we're opening a new loo for example in Abu Dhabi the question is Well what about a lease to be there that is so why are we doing all as though it's a one painting so there's a real issue what the hell is culture right and what is our cultural mission and how in young people who if you look at how young people today not only are understanding my role as a professor as they come in and flip their computer open they're kind of googling as I'm talking. What how do young people understand culture today is it the curator who's sort of defining culture for the fact just like the students in my class last. Young people are discovering culture and understanding culture through dialogue. And so there's sort of a kind of experimentation which is highly defined of course by the Internet. And so a big challenge for museums right now museums frankly our culture institutions are kind of it's a banking system right so it's an enormous value in it and I Farai and these other enormous value but it's only valuable to something we believe it's valuable as of this huge issue of the value of our culture and the transmission of the culture. So it's a big issue and museums

are dealing with this today and it's reflecting on the fact the kinds of people are coming who's coming in it was a huge issue. So what do you do. So and then from a commercial point of you know there's all kinds of really challenging things you can have a company today that has enormous revenues whose stock is tumbling and companies that are years away from revenues and their stock has totally gone up because in fact the value commercial value is almost dependent more on your ability to convince me you can convert you can produce value tomorrow then your ability to produce value today is as these. These all are breaking the models of the university for a thousand years has been based upon my ability to give you sort of privileged information to empower you to be. A lawyer or a theologian or whatever it is. And suddenly I'm no longer the source of information and so this whole model right is like is a big challenge. So there are debates happening

all in we get there. The solution is not you know let's sort of raise Harvard University or raise Louve. Clearly there's eight million people like Harvard University very successful. So this is what's happening now people are experimenting. And so there are lab environments are being set up to experiment and allow us to actually explore the future experiment with the future. And and and and sort of co-exist so in fact that the book in terms of what is the problem is addressing this problem even though it's like this private lab environment. What we're looking at precisely is science labs are kind of why are science lab sustainable Why are we paying more and more money and that's not because they're kind of off in the middle of nowhere they're delivering value Absolutely and so that the whole sustainability and relevance of the lab is its value add to institutions as they move through a very experimental phase.

So that's that I could've said that much more economically or. Any other. Yes. So you know I didn't quite hear so you brought it Patrick you just repeat the first part of what you. Your question. Yes so no. So yes so. Yes so if I'm going to repeat the question so the question is So we're one of the patterns like where are the good ideas coming from is like the artists or the guys are doing is a leader who's doing it where the good ideas coming from so what are things I say to my students in the first day of class is that my my goal is to preserve the one thing that they are working very hard to eliminate and that's their innocence right and

so like people like me are spending all their life trying to be innocent by constantly doing new things and being sort of innocent and and and everything in our educational system is sort of pushing you away from being innocent but in a sense is as we all have experienced fabulous catalyst for for innovation so in terms of what are the patterns. As you'll see in reading the book the book is pretty anecdotal and one of the challenges I'm going to ask your question but I just wanted to frame it by saying that one of the challenges of speaking out it isn't actually being credible as an innovator is that the more detailed my responses to your questions for the more false it is so there's something about innovation which is very connected to serendipity. It's very connected to you know some would say sort of spiritual kind of mystery kind of

flow sorts of origins. Having said that a few patterns. Innovation often happens and great ideas often occur when people move from one culture to the next and are shocked fearful very curious exactly like my students at Harvard University right there like oh my god like what am I going to be I really don't know it's like who am I sitting next to what class and what it is all the sort of mystery that we have sort of curated modern life to take away. And so the more security we have sort of the more successful we are in certain ways. But in reality creative people are often looking for those shocks that throw them into a new environment or Suddenly there.

Very very sensitive and often having moved from this very generic but having moved from one environment to the next to have ideas that seem really surprising. Not very surprising then given where they've come from for anybody else who was sort of surprised at their standing in their midst. It's like well that's a really wild idea. So that pattern by the way it's reflected in the book and in my previous book but it's also if you look at Harvard University and you look at the really innovative faculty and most faculty at Harvard University they're all doing exactly the same thing they're all moving across sort of disciplinary boundaries so that's definitely a pattern. One of the things I talk a lot about in the book is the value of cultural exhibition as a catalyst for innovation. And it's something really understood in design where we sort of talk about demo or die and the importance of kind of. It's

really understand by Google it's really understood by Google in the sense that the sort of some of the major innovation paradigms of today are driven by companies that have this opportunity to exhibit ideas well before they're sort of curated or really their value is very obvious and throw them out there and get feedback and throw them out there and get feedback and that is. Sort of value of culture exhibition I think we've thought too much about exhibition as a public sort of service so kind of a kind of the old teaching method where I'm where in fact there's a really interesting catalytic thing that happens with creators as they are forced to sort of talk about their work or present their work. And so I explore that a lot and I think that that's an interesting. It's not the proprietary product or role of artists or designers or scientists and frankly when it comes

to creation it's not really clear who's who in creating everybody sort of feels. If it's really frontier creation everybody sort of looks to be. In the same boat which is one of the fascinating things I talk a lot in the book and then I start riffing off of your question but I talk a lot in the book about the really surprising value of risk sharing that happens in this sort of creative mode where suddenly you may be the artist and the scientists and you're the designer but our boat is sinking if you know big you know fix that all we're all going to stick it out I'm going to size that your dip stick your finger in the hole. And so that which actually sounds very dramatic what I'm just saying but in fact is something fascinating and I need you right and so there's this bond that holds creators together it doesn't really matter whether there are dishonest who are there or they are and this sort of commonality

of creators is a fascinating thing and one of the big joys of creation. Yes. Yeah. You do your your is that a statement there's a measurable transfer of energy is there. Is there a measurable transfer of energy at the moment of creation. Is that so. My experience I guess is that there in any idea that moves on to some sort of independent existence and so I'm kind of speaking kind of really personalize ideas but ideas if we think of ideas are dreams and dreams that we tend to realize and that can ultimately be realized and so ideas that are moving from a purely dream state to some realized form as a work of art or some sort of humanitarian intervention. My experience is that these

ideas are being recreated along the way. And so there's there's sort of often maybe one sort of identifiable eureka moment which is sort of mythical and frankly a lot of curation of ideas a storytelling. And so you have to go back and talk about this with the creation and it's everybody kind of feels good about and sort of understand it but in fact there's all these really interesting moments that are often middle of the night waking up in the moment you know night moments. You know it's a lot of the I'd say Heroes are kind of heroes at certain moments and those are big charged moments. It gets back to this risk sharing thing so one of the energy transfer things that's happening in this creation so. So Frank frequency creation is not me just walking down the street saying it's me saying oh my god I have you know it's like ghost ofc losing money losing money losing money but writing this really great chapter. And so often creators are in this sort of risky kind of environment like being in a risky environment and then in resolving their risk

environment through creation. There's a huge release and it's often shared. And so there is an energy transfer and that gets back to this joy of co-creation is that you kind of all. Have a drink at the end of the day. I'm going to do it. It's a great it's a fabulous life. It doesn't look like it from the outside but the fattest lives there is this energy transfer. Yes yes. Are you is that you. Your question was am I arguing for a risk in science. I'm arguing from a number of things I guess. I think the science model works really well and I'm part of that and have been part of that.

And I think that. It's a. An amazing transformative idea develop environment. The science lab. I think a couple of the big issues with science labs as I've lived them at least are a. There's not enough dialogue. And so they were limited I can't get up here and dance as a scientist and there's a certain format. There's artists who actually do works of art which is sort of making do as it were made it kind of what we can do what we can say we're always right and every time we publish we're always right. We never write an artist so you know I had this idea but it was really raw it was bad and that's the publishing nature it's doesn't have and so we're always kind of it is all these kind of rules which are really pretty constraining. It works but I think that I would I think it can be broadened. So I think the dialogue thing with the public is both a detriment to the scientists and it's a detriment so risk taking for risk taking I'm not so much saying that although I am saying that I think if you look at the really

fascinates scientists who are doing fascinating groundbreaking work. They are taking big risks and they feel like artists actually and so there's actually if you look at what's going on in those labs it's very much like what's going on in a very successful art studio actually and so. The book is not about the failure of the science lab at all. It's about the potential of a complimentary lab model completely complimentary which has other pros and cons of lots of things that this kind of an environment can't do. But as a compliment it's I think interesting. Yes. So yes so in fact that's the whole concept of failure is really interesting and so in a way it does it in a way it doesn't so as a innovator I think or as a creator and it's certainly the stories that are described here. You sort of always win.

Now the reality is if you look at I try to be honest in this book that in fact you're feeling constantly constant conflict but you're always sort of learning right and so you creators scientists whoever we are are these into fatigue obal right optimists right and so they're constantly not that they don't feel really depressed sometimes of really disappointed and kind of. But that depression and disappointment is often the catalyst for this kind of energy transfer eureka moment. So it's kind of a very rough life. But it it's also addictive and so do I talk about failure I do but I talk more about the important role of failure in success. Yes. Yeah yeah.

So. Let me ask. So in order so the the role of public dialogue is described in this book is more connected to a kind of was I call them nodes of the idea translation process these moments where a creator is looking to obtain feedback and kind of communicate. Meaningful moments of a creative process sort of very vague its publication sort of. And so the there is a lot of openness in what we do there's also a lot of intimacy in what we do so this is definitely not what I'm describing is definitely not the sort of open source kind of everybody sort of contributing anything at all. In fact it's very personal very. I think creativity at least as I understand it is a very personal kind of

thing which is often shared in what I describe in terms of the public dialogue is much more of a sort of a final thing that's going on where it's sort of like the the the writer who has an idea shares it with a maser to criticize and it's the agent and that's a little bit better and then it's the editors a little bit better that it's the critics a little bit better and this is sort of a growing network of people who are more and more involved but I think that creators if you just think forever have worked by small environments where they are getting feedback but they're not getting kicked in the knee and then what's a little bit more mature the broader environment. That's more what's talked about so I don't think it's so much this open source thing as it is a it's a different kind of public dialogue in terms of other institutions. So I think what I'm going to describe here is characteristic of the creation that's going on in most of my colleagues labs here at Harvard University or at MIT where I was before.

I think that today for better and for worse were in a much more open world. And so our ideas as they move from you know one environment and go into exhibition environments could just as well go to Singapore and then go to South Korea. They go there you know but and so the relevance of neighboring is not nearly as great as it once was. And so I because I travel a lot and so for so I do interact and we do interact a lot with in fact the woman who's sitting next to you with her two little children here is actually leading a big effort that we do with Boston public schools we do a lot with the MFA with the science museum and so forth in generalizing what we do to high school students inner city high school students. So we are engaged in that way but for any one of our ideas I think that the partners in the Nothing was described a lot in the book which is the reality of idea development is that these ideas are moving to very different environments and could be the MFA but it could also be

the Louvre could be you know we have a presence and so it is today there's a much bigger geographical scope basically. But clearly the Media Lab at MIT is a. Historical cornerstone in a lot of that kind of experimentation that we're to see and I talk about the media in the book like. Yeah completely. Yeah yeah. Well yeah. So so it is here's the here's the deal for me. The I think that for the Beatles as a music group as opposed to the little bugs

running around us. The sustainability and in fact the viral ality of the Beatles as a cultural phenomenon was related to their economic sustainability. And so at the end of the day and as somebody who's kind of you know you've got to pay the bills right. So I'm you know I kind of explore that. And this is completely experiment. You know and so I think that were. So I'm I'm fascinated with the coexistence of. Creation in value in commercial humanitarian and cultural and educational. I think all those belong together I think that if you look at really really viral ideas they move in all of those ways. I think that our institutions keep them too much. If you look at innovators they're interested all the sense of Bill Gates like commercial but then he's like really interesting humanitarian stuff he's really interested in education is like doing all these things. That's typical.

We're all that we're human of course we're interested in all those things and so I think that all those things you know blonde together I you know money is a kind of a dirty thing in a way but it's fundamentally necessary. So I think the hope is that the lab is sustainable and the equal hope is that the impact is much broader than a purely commercial impact. And I should also just before I and with that utopian you say that if you look at what's happening in the NGO space in the environment or in global health for example. People are not where they were 10 years ago. Right there's a much better recognition that you know what the idea of this handout I'll give you money you go do something important I'll give you some more money. It's it works in some cases but in cases particular you create ating value. It's not working very well.

And so people are totally looking at these mixed models which I think is very positive and hopeful personally. Utopian I mean you've got a dream right I'm more in a very non utopian world and so somebody has got to be dreaming and frankly all these young people here are dreaming right that's what that's why do I come back and teach every day. They are still dreaming. Right we're totally screwing things up but they're still dreaming. And that's I think that they need an environment to get to realize those dreams. Yes. Well you know as of yet.

Yeah. Well in fact yes and also the day I think the value of experimentation with chocolate inhalers cultural value is inherent in the value of that experimentation for that experimentation sake. And I think that had we with the students or in our culture exhibition and saying you know and then we're going to make a buck a lot of money because people are going to really want to and it would have been educationally very uninteresting and culturally really really and and interesting. So I think if you look at and there's a lot of really popular examples today like Facebook or Google where you see that early on there even though the people probably were which is that there's a lot of experimentation going people were not sort of asking Are we making money or a vision I hope my guys look at this is really tainting us so that. So there is a point where right now the fact that breathing energy energy kind of caffeine gets in your bloodstream more faster so it's like a faster

acting sort of Red Bull in that it can make money and go back and sort of find the cause is really interesting. But that's why we developed and so I think that's what allows this. So equally we talk in this book about works of art that are purchased by you know major museums and so for us I don't want to totally focus on breathable chocolate. But as an illustration I think what I'm driving at is that our ability to pursue really breakthrough ideas whatever they are is enhanced by a model where each little experiment is sort of valuable in and of itself. And I don't need to sort of ask the kid whether well do I really think that's going to be a reality. I don't really care. You know if you're learning that's great and people are sort of experimenting. So that's the it's sort of a subtle it's sort of a subtlety but just to terminate to finish on

that point if I think if you look at great writers you look at great physicists or who are involved in creating major works culture. I think that they love you know often masochistic way but I think that they love every second of the process and often are depressed at their work. It's like oh yeah. So there's this. And so what I'm interested here in the lab is inviting inviting the public into that reality. I don't think we were all living in a lab right. It's all the world is accomplishing there's a certain joy of it in every single second which is really unknown by creators. It's not very understood more broadly but that is the distinction. Yes. So totally

honest answer here. The. The core of what we have been doing has used. A couple key methods. One method in education which is sui seed. Groups of students we. So we group students together early on in a semester. We see those groups with big ideas. So what do you see with George to think of your own idea if you look at how creators are created basically. They tend to have a mentor environment certainly true in a science lab. You come to my lab. I'm not going to do whatever you want to do and I will pretty much give you some orientation. I'm counting on you figuring out your own orientation but I'm sort of helping you understand what matters. So my course how to create things have the matter of being passionate is one thing. So we do a lot to try and encourage a kid's passion and we can come back to that.

But the association with what you care about with what matters in the world is actually it seems like a trivial thing but it's actually. It took me 30 something years to kind of act figure out what's going on my head could really really matter and to kind of make that sort of bet. And so we. Right away encourage kids and they go through this frustrating thing the which is a group thing dreaming as a group is a really painful and associating your passion with something really mad is really painful and so we do that. We do a lot of brainstorming. So having kind of gone through this process myself we don't really do mind mapping and other kinds of things that are probably very effective but I don't really know any creators who've really been super successful and kind of following rules and so it tends to be a pretty dirty kind of in a positive way but kind of chaotic thing. So most of what we do to enhance passion is to work hard on the correlation between student passion and an idea that matters. That's kind of the if we can get a

third way or half with this master and Kevin made that connection. That's a big deal. And then there's a lot of ink exhibition where we're getting students up and up and up where they are getting are getting feedback so in terms of the public you know we. Have not done a big effort in so the different publics I was explaining before this intimate public and their kind of broader and broader publics. I kind of feel as if the those initial publics in my class or at the level of Troie who are seeing early stage ideas should be intimate publics and so we don't do much to kind of get a big public involved. It's sort of whoever dares enter kind of thing. It's like the off-Broadway thing you don't want the broad public coming and you sort of want to keep the sort of intimate. We have an exhibition going on right now related edible bottles. And it's it's totally fine in the idea that clearly eventually bottles will be like oranges and bananas and you'll sort of peel it off and eat it that's clearly where we're going.

And so we're experimenting in everybody's Commons has really been successful but then we were on TV a few weeks ago and they brought 10 people off the street and they were just like completely outrageous and feels really weird it looks totally strange and tastes really weird is going to react it is a clearly there's a in the early stage of idea development there's kind of a confidence thing. You just need intimate so that issue of who is the public how do you sort of invite them and we're learning we're learning about how to do that. Well thank you very much and enjoy the evening. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again for coming to the Harvard bookstore we have copies of the lab for sale at the cash register and there will be a signing right here at this table.