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I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. The maxim less is more. It's not just the model of the minimalist movement. It's now the dogma of school reform. The smaller is better off a doxie is powerful with many arguing that a scaled down school can deliver a higher quality of education. And in an era where super size has become a personification non-grata Brocton high wishbones more than 4000 students is defying the formula for effective education reform. Ten years ago Brockton High was a case study in failure. With only a quarter of the students passing statewide exams and one in every three dropping out. But today it's outperforming 90 percent of the high schools in Massachusetts. This hour we'll learn how the school turned itself around. But first as more mass Decision 2010 election coverage with a look at the Baker campaign and we top it off with Boston's big time chef Barbara Lynch. Up next campaign is class. Rooms and cuisine. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying the Supreme Court

is weighing a case that pits a father's right to mourn his son's death privately against a group's right to free speech. Albert Snyder wants the high court to reinstate a multimillion dollar verdict from his lawsuit against the Kansas based Westboro Baptist Church. The group protested at the funeral of Snyder's son who was killed in Iraq. The group views the deaths of U.S. troops as God's punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuality. It has staged anti-gay protests at other military funerals while holding up signs that read. You're going to hell. And thank God for dead soldiers. Snyder supporters say a brief family should not be exploited but others argue siding with Snyder can erode the First Amendment. Authorities in Flagstaff Arizona confirm the touchdown of at least two tornadoes this morning. A campground was hit and cars are overturned across the region. Arizona Public Radio's Gillian Ferris Kohl reports severe thunderstorms are continuing to line in the affected area.

The Arizona Department of Public Safety says the tornadoes hit just before sunrise this morning. The storms overturned several semi trucks on a major highway and reportedly hit a campground filled with travel trailers. Interstate 40 is closed due to numerous accidents and several train cars along Route 66 have been derailed. Emergency crews are on scene where extensive damage is being reported to many homes and businesses including shattered windows and blown off roofs and siding. Arizona is not generally prone to tornadoes. However the National Weather Service has the region under a tornado watch through the day with severe storms likely to continue. For NPR News I'm Gillian Ferris Kohl in Flagstaff. The Nobel Prize in Chemistry this year goes to an American and two Japanese researchers. NPR's Joe Palca says the three independently developed ways to make organic molecules that can be used in making medicine and electronics. The three are American Richard heck and Japanese citizens 18 Negi she and a curio Suzuki. The Royal Swedish Academy gave the award for as they put it

police BMA catalyzed cross coupling in organic synthesis. What that means is these chemists found ways to link large numbers of carbon atoms together to make interesting compounds in the laboratory. Already these techniques have been used to synthesize cancer drugs as well as new kinds of plastics. Joe Palca NPR News Washington. Passengers flying American Airlines British Airways or Iberia are expected to get more choices on flights connections routes and fares. Those three major carriers have launched a joint transatlantic venture expected to rattle rival airlines at some of the world's busiest airports. New routes include Chicago to Helsinki London to San Diego and New York to Budapest. On Wall Street the Dow is down now 17 points at ten thousand nine hundred twenty eight. This is NPR. Strikers at France's top oil ports have blocked tankers for a 10th day over a port reform plan that they say would cost jobs. Eleanor Beardsley

reports a deadlock is beginning to hit the country's gasoline supplies. Some 44 ships carrying crude oil are waiting it see blocked from France's largest Mediterranean port of ma say the strikers want job guarantees as part of a port reform and are also protesting against President Nicolas Sarkozy's pension reform. The strike has already trimmed fuel output at six refineries in France plant served by the Port of ma say it can process over a million barrels a day around 7 percent of Europes total capacity on the French island of course ago which is fully dependent on supplies from say only emergency vehicles now have access to gas stations. But analysts say the port strike would have to last another two weeks for motorists on mainland France to start feeling the pinch. For NPR News I'm Eleanor Beardsley in Paris. A presidential e appointed panel in the U.S. finds White House blocked efforts by federal scientists. To tell the public just how bad the Gulf oil spill could have been in April an oil rig exploded killing 11 workers. It also triggered an unprecedented oil spill. Texas Governor Rick

Perry is asking Mexican President Felipe Calderon to intervene in a case involving a missing American allegedly shot to death by Mexican pirates. Perry wants Mexican authorities to help recover the body of David Hartley Hartley and his wife were returning to the U.S. on jet skis when they were attacked last week on Falcon Lake which straddles the U.S.-Mexico border. I'm Lakshmi Singh NPR News Washington. Support for NPR comes from IBM working to help midsize businesses become the engines of a Smarter Planet. Learn more at IBM dot com slash engines. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. Today we continue our mass Decision 2010 election coverage with another installment of ask the manager. We've been checking in with the managers who are running the candidates campaign for the governor's race. And today we're

joined by Tim O'Brian the organizer behind Charlie Baker's campaign. Tim O'Brien welcome. Thanks for having me. OK we've got four weeks to go. How would you assess where you all are. I think we are exactly where we'd hoped we'd be at this point which is. You've seen now a two way dynamic has established between ourselves and Governor Patrick. I think the voters on Election Day will have a clear choice between continuing what we believe are the failed policies of the last four years or taking that take or take Massachusetts in an entirely different direction. Charlie Baker wants to cut taxes. Governor Patrick has raised them. He wants to cut spending. Governor Patrick has increased spending by three billion dollars. You have two candidates one entirely different visions for Massachusetts. And you know you look at all the public polls were within two or three points. We released a poll last week that for the first time we had ourselves up a point. You know we've made incremental progress with with a

candidate that has never run before. He had no name ID. This was all you know for the majority the voters he was a very new entity and we've closed a 15 point gap into a two to three point gap in with 4 4 weeks left we think we're exactly where we need to be to be victorious on Election Day. When the last time you or you said good news was that nobody knew Charlie Baker and also the bad news was that nobody knew right but what you're saying now is that people have come to know him. Well I think the last poll there was you know when I was here with you last we had 65 percent of voters had didn't have an opinion of Charlie Baker That's now down to 25 percent. When the only candidate in this race that has higher favorable zone unfavorable. Voters as we expected. This is like you know this is like a Red Sox season if you should use an analogy. You know I'm not a sports person. Well I had in the preseason is a very small group people watch this thing.

They fact they fly to Florida. They stand around get autographs but they're the diehards opening day. You know the dog days of summer. More and more people start to tune in until the fall when everybody starts to watch. You know and there's a pennant race or they happen to make the playoffs. Then everybody watches in a lot like politics you know we go on this race the only people really following this were the diehards and the political pundits. The summertime people go away but folks are tuning in. You know they're tuning in because. There's a very big choice in this election. I mean we are at. Massachusetts has over 300000 people out of work. Taxes have been increased eight times for over a billion dollars. The next governor will inherit a three billion dollar deficit from the current governor. The rainy day fund has been depleted. Couple hundred million dollars left in it. So we have very difficult challenges that we have to face as a state and people as we get closer to Election Day are tuning in and deciding who

is it that they want to lead in the next four years and again do we want to continue or do they want to continue on the path or on it do they want to new direction if they want to. And if they want to new direction to declare Candy in this race it's Charlie Baker and that dynamic has been established. There's a couple of things that seem to continue to dog your campaign if you will which are really about Charlie Baker the person s maybe as opposed to the candidate. Well maybe a little bit about the candidate first his tone and temperament. There's been much written you know more than I could ever quote to you right now by many pundits that sometimes he seems a little flinty in public statements and in those debates. Now it seemed to work for him at least in one instance but in other times people are like why is he so mad why is he so angry and in a rage. I know you're going to tell me why but that. Are you concerned that that just continues to cling to him when many people said you know it's just not the guy that's just not who he is. Well I think there is a huge disconnect between the folks that

work. You know the insiders on Beacon Hill that cover this and supposed to know everything and the regular sort of working folks outside of Boston that have been hit by the tax increases have been hit by the spending increases and are the ones most frustrated with Beacon Hill that they see isn't doing nearly enough or isn't making the types of sacrifices that they've had to make over the past four years. And I'm going to tell you our responses. Deval Patrick and Tim Cahill aren't mad enough they aren't angry enough at the status of Beacon Hill. I mean so they're responding to his being what some would call flinty. I think Charlie Charlie is a. Charlie is an emotional guy. Charlie can be an impatient guy. Charlie always says to us work the problem not the not the people. Come down hard on problems not people. And when he talks whether it's private meetings or public

meetings when he talks about what he sees on Beacon Hill and the problems that he sees in this sort of oh gee whiz Well we've done the best we can attitude that comes out of that comes out of the legislators the governor the Treasurer folks that you know the the so-called experts that go up to Beacon Hill every day and report on the comings and goings. I got to tell you it is. We haven't done nearly enough in you know the can't get you campaign slogans but our opponents are things could be worse. I mean that's what you're running on things could be worse we're going to tell you things could be a lot better and things have to get a lot better. And if sometimes Charlie if Charlie was here with you we'd save sometimes and that gets me a little worked up. Well you know something. It's going to get me a little worked up when I'm governor. When they don't do what I think they need to do turn the state around. So you know if if if you think Charlie's maybe is a little bit too aggressive or you think someone if you want someone that's

going to push for sort of more incremental changes or be happy with. You know sort of incremental progress that he's probably not your guy but if you want someone who's a voter you would have voted yes if you want someone to go up there and sometimes pound the desk when you feel like those guys up there aren't getting it. Then I'd say clearly Charlie because you're all you're Is your candidate. Now pick up on you're saying that he's an emotional guy because here's the other thing that keeps dog on your campaign is that he's not woman friendly. We now have his wife doing women for Baker he during that great event where a lot of women and he said some things that made you know people say wait a minute that's an emotional side I haven't seen it cries it is sure his daughters games and that he now has a softer side in other words but right now there's been that gender gap between he and Deval Patrick. Some women just haven't related to him. I got to you know I I have to laugh because I feel like every four years we get the same sort of themes and criticisms by the so-called according to experts who cover

politics in order for us to have a gender gap. Deval Patrick has a gender gap. And why isn't there folks saying Deval Patrick ought to go down and start you know swinging beers with men because he's going to Men problem. OK. You don't hear about that. Hey listen Republicans gender gaps are driven by party registration not the candidate. I mean it's affect me but also do you think OK well first of all I get to 20 point gender gap. Mitt Romney had an 18 point gender gap. Scott Brown had a 24 percent gender gap. Christie Todd Whitman the former female governor of New Jersey had a 14 point gender gap. Charlie Baker's gender gap is 13 percent 13 points. So I would argue that we would we are over performing previous Republican candidates for governor. Now again on the flip side that would mean that Deval Patrick is underperforming with men. I would like to hear someone ask the governor why he is having a hard time bringing men into

his camp. But I guess we'll have to leave it I think so if you don't answer that question that is a good class. OK so no gender gap here that you were not there. Yes you know there is a theory is there is a. Your answer. There are gaps I mean there are voting trends that we see every four years and that always exist. The goal for the campaign is to maximize your strengths and minimize is where where you have you know where they are over perform where you have strengths and try to perform better than previous candidates or better than what you're already polling among other groups. And that's what Charlie Baker is doing you know everybody's dogging your campaign. Charlie Baker is down 14 points and in June he was down seven points in July. He was down four points in the beginning of September. And now Boston Globe says we're dead even to a point. So if this is what incremental progress or constantly closing a gap in being in a dead heat with your trajectory moving up and being the government being flat that's sort of you know dogging it I would

say you know I think we're we're doing we're doing pretty well. You know I think we're exactly where we want to be. OK all right well you know I have to talk to you about that let's go look let's go from here I can't even say his name. Yes. You know. That is just the guy stabbed him Cale in the front. That's what I say not even in the back it was so nasty. Yeah. And it just can't help your guy to have this kind of guy standing next to him even though he didn't you know some believe he didn't ask for it. I mean he just you know that was Paul's decision that he wanted to come out publicly and denounced him Calle and make sure Charlie Baker. But you know there they are standing together and don't you think some of that gets off on the Charlie Baker. Well listen Paul made a decision on what he thought was right. The last time I checked the goal the purpose of running campaigns is to win. You know he's decided that Charlie Baker is the

best option for changing the direction of Massachusetts. It's the way he did it nobody would you know deny it and well you know sort of that's a question that your poll made it came to a decision on his own. We don't have any communication with them. He decided that this is the direction you want to take and we accepted we accepted his indorsement again you're saying you've offered him nothing no deal. Well you know I think we've said that time and time again I just want to give you a chance and I wouldn't you know our opponents keep sort of bring this up they don't want to talk about they don't actually want talk about the issues they want to you know I mean they've got conspiracy theories that would make all over stone you know jealous because you know he could make four or five new movies based upon their theories but I think you know they don't want to talk about the tax increases they don't want to talk about the spending increases they don't want to talk about I mean they talk about big you know insiders. They're the ones who've been running Beacon Hill for the past four years. They're the ones they're the ones with the backroom deals. I mean Deval Patrick will offer Marion Walsh a job for hundreds for a job that was vacant for 12 years. You know he's been endorsed by over 45 units who knows the promises I would love to know the promises he's made. But those insiders the

same people that are blocking him from implementing any real reform. Hey listen Paul this cocoa independents Republicans Democrats everybody is running around Charlie Baker because they know he's the only candidate who will be the sort of guy that pounds his fist on the table and is willing to take it to the folks on Beacon Hill who want to resist who are resisting change I mean every every four years we hear these candidates say I'm going to go change Beacon Hill and it never happens it never happens. And they finally get somebody who maybe pounds the table once in a while who gets a little worked up who lays out plans that you know the unions and the special interests are attacking Charlie on because he's touching the sacred you know he's going after the sacred issues like pension reform the known was willing to do before he's going after the law going after the things that are making Massachusetts less competitive and more expensive and they're attacking him for it. And I think if you're a voter and you're looking for that fresh of breath here you finally have what Charlie Baker.

You got two more televised debates I believe coming up. There's no real issue that seems big issue that seems to have come to the fore. Lots of people will be paying attention now in these close you know weeks. How does your guy have to present himself I mean you've articulated many of his positions OK so that he holds where he isn't and maybe go to your polls get gets up further than that one point difference right now. Well I think there is a huge issue in the race and we've been talking this is day one. We have to as a state stop the reckless spending so we can cut taxes make Massachusetts more competitive again and get people back to work. This is all about jobs. You know you look to the north. New Hampshire has a five point seven percent unemployment rate. Ours is closer to 9. You know last time I checked you everybody keeps saying well people are moving out of Massachusetts because of the weather. Well it's not as if it's that much warmer up in New Hampshire. I'll tell you why it's because of the climate it's because of the business climate here in the Commonwealth. We are

not a competitive state. We the governor keeps saying that we're on the mend and on the move. But there are twenty six other states that have a lower unemployment rate than Massachusetts Arkansas. And you go down the list I mean these are states Massachusetts has so much to offer whether it be infrastructure education. Industries I mean we have talented workforce. There is no no excuse why we should be on the bottom half and unemployment. There is no excuse why our employment rate should be two and a half points higher than the state of New Hampshires. It's because we as a state are too expensive Our taxes are too high and we do not take job growth seriously and if we're going to get Massachusetts back get as moving again we've got to be single focused on jobs. And you can't create jobs and the spending the spending on Beacon Hill drives everything. It is the root cause for everything that's

wrong in Massachusetts it makes it makes us prohibit ourselves or hits us from investing in places that we want to invest. It makes us drive up our tax rate which makes us less competitive. It makes us Rob schools there are 3 200 fewer teachers working in Massachusetts today when Governor Patrick took office. He's running a TV ad that says he invests in education. You know what he did is he cut he gutted local aid and pushed this problem down cities and towns. They in turn had to layoff and hire a few teachers. I mean that's not leadership. I'm going to go to the things that you know the pundits say that you know you've denounced them already but one is that I love the political parties but I think you can tell. Because they know everything you know they know what is that Repub Republicans have the mojo and that in on the ground I mean get out the vote thing. Favors your candidate. Do you have the mojo to get out the numbers that you need to get in. And every single time a fans tell you every single poll you look at shows more energy on our race. And I would tell you that Charlie Baker's energy is exactly the type of

mojo that folks are looking for November 2nd. All right Tim O'Brien a loyal campaign guy. Charlie Baker going to be right there. Well I don't know. Good talking to Tim O'Brien the campaign manager for Charlie Baker. Jim thank you so much for me I really like coming out thank you. Up next it's education reform with a look at Brocton high school. Stay with us. Support for WGBH comes from you and from mass concerts. Celtic Thunder covering everyone from Fred Astaire to Neil Diamond to Michael bublé in their unique contemporary vocal style on Saturday October 9th at the Wang Theater. Tickets available at City Center dot org. And from your New England Toyota dealer celebrating 10 years and three generations of the technologically advanced nature inspired Toyota Prius hybrid. You can learn more at by a Toyota dot com. And from North Hill in Needham a community with a host of amenities for independent people age

65 plus and proud to support WGBH. North Hill in Needham. Don't just live. Live well. Details at Northville dot org. On the next FRESH AIR Justin Timberlake he's costarring in the new film The Social Network. We'll talk with him about his acting and his music. I don't know where that line came from. I sometimes regret it because I feel like people feel like it's an extension of who I am. Justin Timberlake on the next fresh air this afternoon a Q An eighty nine point seven WGBH hit one out of the park by supporting the music and programs you depend on by securing your copy of baseball film by Ken Burns now available and shopped at WGBH dot org. This updated collection now includes 110 finish for new hours that recently premiered on public television with your purchase you can also enter to win the Grand Slam sweepstakes which includes a customized MLB Jersey and much more.

Details online at shopper dot WGBH dot org. John Norris from NPR News and you're listening to eighty nine point seven GBH radio. Stay with us for the bigger picture behind the day's news on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. Coming up at 4:00 here on Boston's NPR station for news and culture. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show in the last 10 years Brockton High school has turned itself from being an underperforming school into one of the higher performing schools in Massachusetts. Joining me to talk about this transformation is one of the school's biggest cheerleaders. Dr. Susan Sacco it's the principal of Brockton High. Susan Sacco it's welcome. Oh thank you so much it's a pleasure to be here. It's a pleasure to have you congratulations on the cup and your accomplish Well thank you you've already highlighted my number one job responsibility which is being brought in Jais greatest cheerleader so I'm glad to be doing in a sense right now in the report done by a Harvard economist Ronald Ferguson called How high schools become exemplary. You're one of the

shining lights Brockton High School thank you for saying that. And it's interesting because he notes that so many of the conditions that you began with many would have felt defeated or were not possible to overcome so I'm just going to offer some to our audience and that's two thirds of the greater is black or Hispanic 64 percent of them get free or reduced meals. And the school itself is forty three hundred correct holds every student. Goodness gracious you know at a time when we're talking about small is better. How do you how have you done it. Right and you know it's. Well first of all here's the answer that everybody looks for the magic secret to this. How about hard work hard work hard work every day buy a lot of teachers. The students stepped up but we really had to look in the mirror a lot because you know when you see when you see failure numbers in the percentage we had Kelly you know you can blame a test Oh well the test is terrible and you know students should be held without first of all I believe in it. But secondly if everybody else was failing at the

same percentage that would be one thing. But when we were failing in a horrible percentage and you just have to look in the mirror and say what are we doing. And we're not serving our kids well so we really did have to think differently about how we were approaching education for all kids. And you're right we have over 4000 of them so that's pretty cool. Tell our listeners what the numbers were in terms of the bad procedure is when you all you know sort of got the collective wake up call right now where you are now. That is a good way to put it. It was like a slap across the face and you know I don't know if you know I am a Brockton High graduate so for me there was a pride in I was a history teacher at the time and there was a pride about the school which was a wake up call was it was an understatement. And here's what we faced in English language arts. The failure rate was 44 percent. But in math the failure rate was 75 percent. Wow. And you have to pass the M CAS and to graduate. So when that

caste kicked in for those high stakes we were going to have. You know three quarters of our students not getting a diploma if we didn't do something differently and fast. And you know we owe a lot more to our students than to just whine about a test. We've got to roll up our sleeves and say it is what it is and we better address it. Well one of the things that you did immediately was to pull together a small group of teachers a restructuring committee her act. How did that work. Well it and I think it is in fact this afternoon when I go back to the school this is like an escape in the middle of the day you know I know I am never out of the building at this time so I'm feeling weird right now. But this afternoon we have our we have a restructuring committee meeting most often that we meet on Saturday mornings because it's a good time to work its quiet time and people are being pulled in a million directions. But it started because we there was a there was a small group of us the principal at the time called a call a couple of us in and said you know is this Am I understanding this right that this is what you know it is and we said Yeah it seems to be and besides that there's also there was also a lot about time in learning we were below the state requirements

of learning time. We were in a mess. And so he pulled a couple of us that was sort of perhaps you might say activist but another way might be loud. So whatever you want to say and said can you can we do something about this. And you know that first restructuring committee Kelly was really who we could beg. Because you know people don't want to do that there was a likeness. Goody goodies you know that kind of thing. And it was really a group of about 20 people teachers and administrators who had been in that school and were dissatisfied and believed you know we did. Here's how we started. This was before PowerPoint and smart boards and data analysis that was a sophisticated as now we had newsprint. And I took a marker and I wrote the failure numbers on the paper and giant smelly marker letters and said Is this the best we can be. And the answer we all said was No it isn't. But we needed to we could blame the kids. We needed to really look at what we were doing.

So according to the report you did two things that are just seem to go across the board for high schools becoming exemplary. One thing you get everybody on board I know you started with this small group correct a big but pretty soon. Yeah right. It was everybody on board at the school. Yeah. And the second thing is that you focused around for the writing area. So really talking reading writing speaking and reasoning correct. And then you built the curriculum around the world around that from everybody from the gym teacher right to the math teacher. Right. And I'm glad you said that because you know sometimes you hear people say oh well is this all about Test Prep. I think we started with that mentality about test prep and we found out really fast that you can never outguess a test anyway. You know it's like oh I saw a Shakespearean sonnet maybe we should teach experience audits and then the next year there's something else and something else. So we did start by looking at the test. But I think this is something we did differently than most schools. What we did was not to say what is this question asking what is this question. We started saying one of the

skills students need to be successful. It became clear to us fast that those weren't skills just about a test. Reading writing speaking and reasoning is what adults do in the successful to be successful in this world all the time. But then came the challenge of this literacy in those areas. What does that mean people. Yes I'm in favor of literacy. Well hello what are you talking about. So what we the restructuring committee did was say literacy in reading at Brocton high school means a student will do this do this do this do this and do this. Writing an open response writing a creative essay writing a persuasive argument responding to reading. We did things that we as adults do when we said these are skills that our students need. There's no speaking component on em CAS and we can't stand how teenagers speak have you heard them. Yes and you know and that's ok we all did that. You know I always joke with the kids and say it is that like groovy and they're like oh Dr.

Zack I get it but that's OK for their friends but if I if one of our students goes into an interview for a job it comes and he had an interview with you I'd like to intern in your radio station and you say you know tell me about yourself. You know you know and you know it's like no no. So we've really worked hard on those kind of skills that took a lot of effort and training because most teachers you mentioned how we did it across the disciplines and that's true. Use their content. It was about if you're teaching science you should use the content of science. But if you're going to have them respond to a reading it better be this way. It was very structured and we monitor it like crazy and I'll use myself as a bad example. I was a history teacher and I thought of a good one but I didn't know how to teach reading. I knew how to teach history I thought. And it was about stuff they need to know this they need to know this they need to know this. So I here's how I taught reading. So here's a primary

source documents some you know 15 year olds love some exciting piece from the Federalist Papers. Put it right on down. Yeah but then they would stare at it. They didn't do anything. And then they'd say Oh I don't get it. And my answer to that would be read it again. Well how does that help the the student. Right. So some skills they need some skills and how do you actively read how you break it down. But you know what in fairness to the faculty It wasn't that they weren't on board. Some weren't but that they didn't know how. And so what we the restructuring committee did was designed trainings. We we use professional development for the faculty say we want you to teach reading but also here's how we want you to teach writing. But here's how. So you become an overnight success after 10 years. I'm glad you said this is heard around the word is being thrown around and we were all shaking our heads in school the other day we're like turn around. I am sorry like you said yes but the reason I brought that up is because now you find yourself in the middle of this national conversation really about educational reform and the

tenets of that there are. It should be a very small school right. And there should be. We should get rid of those teachers that are there and start fresh. Right and you didn't do either of those. No we did not. First of all I think there's something really special about the culture of Brockton High School and we are who we are. Forty three hundred. It varies between 41 to 43 and we felt like we could capitalize on that. We talk about with a brocken boxers you know rock you must say oh yes we use the dog. Yeah. And so we talk about Boxer pride and we felt like we could capitalize on that. But I also would answer that and I know that the Gates Foundation spent zillions of dollars on that breaking schools down. First of all we didn't want to build a wall in the middle of the school. But secondly and I really feel strongly about this. It isn't about structure. It's about instruction. And if you are in effectively teaching you could have. Again I use my history teacher background. If I'm just

lecturing and no one's paying attention. There could be 500 people in a row or three small doesn't matter it's what I'm doing that matters. Now granted I'm not advocating for classes of 500 but what I'm saying is it was about what you do with the kids that you have in front of you and the most powerful change agent is the classroom teacher. Well it should be noted that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation have changed now yet there might be go toward emphasizing teacher instruction as well right. So so what do you say. At this moment where everybody is going to see Waiting for Superman where the emphasis is on charter schools right. Very handpicked group of kids. I haven't seen it I have anything but I know I got it but everybody's talking about I know that's what it is. Charter schools my small small right I haven't decided if I want to see because sometimes there's education things make me nuts but I think that the answer is every school needs to look in the mirror at themselves and say what are we doing and how can we do it better. And whether it's small whether it's large and also by the way you would also ask me about

firing all the teachers. A If you fire half of them where is the replacement group coming from by the way. But secondly are you preparing the teachers appropriately. If teachers are just left to well just go ahead and do what you want to do. That's not such a good strategy from a leadership perspective either. So I guess my answer to those. I haven't seen it yet but my answer to that is that it's it really is about how students learn in our job as teachers and leaders in schools as educators is about hitting them with how they learn and delivering the practices that are going to help them be the best they can be and move them forward. It isn't about size or breaking things to you know this is an academy for this one. And that's not to say we don't have specialized programs that we do in Iraq and has a really personal place when you come in here I know it's hard for people to believe but I would say walk with me. There are 35 turn around schools in Boston that are charged with doing some of that which you just said firing half the teachers drafting a whole new curriculum the whole nine

yards. Your advice to them. Let's go for literacy literacy. It's we intensely focused on literacy and because I think I think here's what we did differently. Here's what I would ask them not to do by the way. When I am cast first came in a lot of schools went the route of their failing English in math so let's give them all English and all math and take away all the electives that they love. We never took that approach and I have no regrets about that. We hooked them with what they love. I mean our band director for example. The kids would follow him off a cliff if he's teaching them how to read and write using music as the venue. This you can lose all that's a win win right. You got that I mean it's amazing. So I would say to this what is the mission that you want for your school around literacy. I mean you don't have to define it the way we did I think everybody has to find their own. What the key missions are but I would say empower a team. It was all about our restructuring committee. This was I always kind of resist

these turnaround teams I'm not sure what they are it's like Navy SEALs parachuting in and going poof everybody's reformed. I got to start where you are where you are and we empowered a team. We focused on our mission. We also implemented with fidelity and by that I mean this is where leadership has to step up. If someone isn't doing what they need to be doing. You need to address that. And you know hey none of us like those uncomfortable meetings but. Sometimes those are difficult behind closed doors meetings about oh no let's be clear about what our expectations are for you and for the students. And then the other key is we monitored it like crazy in the way we did that was we looked at student work because teachers would often say I'm teaching this. But we flipped it around to say what are they learning what are they learning. Right and show me the money let's take a look at the student's work to see if it's rigorous if it's consistent. If that's that's a powerful monitoring tool.

Last question and quickly Susan's excellence How does it feel to be a role model for public schools for a public school I mean that they're good everywhere else everybody saying their doom forget it. I know. And nobody is nobody is and I always say I have the best job in the world. Brockton High School is is such an awesome place and I come in every day and I laugh and there's 4000 teenagers that a happy and proud. And so I think you know I'm not so sure about the role model piece I just think that it really is about concentrated action on the on the behalf of kids and all I have to do is walk through the halls you know at the school every day and I feel like who this is this is a great feeling. It really is all about the happiness KELLY It really is. Well there you have it. Congratulations. Thanks Jack thanks. You're doing you are a role model what I did was so I like it or not you're the one that I think we we were waiting for superman and here we are. Super teens seem to say I've been talking with Dr. Susan Sacco which is the principal of Brockton

High School there demonstrating how high schools become exemplary. Susan Sacco with thank you so much for joining us thank you it was a pleasure. Up next it Chef Barbara Lynn Stay with us. With the. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Skinner auctioneers and appraisers of antiques and fine art. You might consider auction when downsizing a home or selling a collection 60 auctions annually 20 collecting categories Boston in Marlborough online AD Skinner Inc dot com and from the site area New Bedford one of America's foremost comedians Lily Tomlin opening night on Saturday October 9th and Christopher Lloyd stars in Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman Friday October 15th. Tickets and info at site Tyrian dot org. And from Windsor place of Wilmington an assisted living residence for seniors who value their financial freedom. Minutes from Boston and New Hampshire often 93 at Exit 30 8 9 7 8 9 8

8 23 hundred or Windsor place of Wilmington dot com. I'm Lisa Moll and nine year old Mahmoud lives in Gaza City. Like many children who lived through the war with Israel he suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder. Unless he's playing his instrument. A young Palestinian discovers his gift for music. Our story from the Gaza Strip next time. This afternoon at three o'clock here on the new eighty nine point seven WGBH radio. From presidents to poets senators to song writers Diana has asked some of the most important people some of the most important questions. And on Friday November 5th you can ask her anything you want. Join the WGBH News Club with a gift of one hundred fifty dollars and eighty nine point seven will say thanks with two complimentary tickets to our guest session. NPR host Diane Reed. Already a member. Reserve your seats at a discount.

At WGBH dot org slash box office. This is eighty nine point seven. WGBH Boston NPR station for trusted voices and a local conversation with FRESH AIR and the callee Crossley Show the new eighty nine point seven WGBH. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show my guest Barbara Lynch is an award winning chef. She is the CEO of Barbara Lynch group which is comprised of multiple colon area institutions throughout Boston from restaurants to a bookstore to a cocktail bar. And her latest restaurant Matan was recently named one of the best new restaurants in America by bona magazine chef Barbara Lynch welcome. Hi Kelly thanks for having me. Well see I love your story which I did not know until I just got a chance to read up about you. Yes started in the projects. Yeah I mean that's kind of a mind blowing trajectory for those of us who know about your restaurants all around town. And I'm I'm just it's

amazing to think about that journey to now so tell us how it began. Yes born and raised in South Boston. Mary Ellen McCormack housing projects. My mom my dad died a month before I was born so I was the last lynched the seventh. And that you know that's how I started but. I actually knew I wanted to. I went to Boston Public School Madison Park High at the time and I ended up having a really great home economics program and that program I felt well this is exactly what I want to do. I felt really comfortable that I knew I wanted to cook and I ended up knowing that I wanted to be a chef at a very young age. I just never thought I'd be here like I thought I'd own a sub shop in South Boston or a bar or some sort of a pub but you know and if you think of yourself doing fine cuisine. Oh no no no no never ever. I still can't even grasp that. You know always but pretty happy that I that I am here.

Well walk us through your very first paid cooking job which I love till till now. Yeah. Oh my gosh yeah same monikers directory. Three priests Father Quinn O'Sullivan and O'Connell. Yeah I just they needed a chef and our cook and so I said all I can do that you know I was like 15 16. I almost burned the house down a few times but Father Quinn was very patient. It was just so much fun like preparing meals and getting them dinner and having it ready on time and each each one had different requests. But it was just interesting and what a really great feeling. So that was yes then and then I worked on a boat and you know I remember interviewing for that job and he was like oh well we're also cooks. You know we're also with waitstaff and I said no I want to be. I want to be a cook. And he just back then it was like women don't cook. Exactly Oh yeah I was like no I want to cook and I lied my way through that jobs that I knew how to

make Dover sole and chowder and I really didn't. So how did you get away with it. No I didn't. I went to the library the next day just started reading how to do it. And obviously you have to have some talent to do that you have to have a little town just a little bit. I did want to alert our listeners that when you were cooking for the priest your specialty was sausage and onions. Oh yeah yeah you got good. Which I now want to hear you know taste your sausage and onions in your at the end of your career here with your flag was easy as you know you were prepared for like creamy polenta and all that stuff. So how would you describe your your style. You know your your brand per se. It's Italian but you know how would you describe where you are at now. I sort of describe it as refined European cuisine. I pretty much stayed with Italian and French. So when I decided that I love cooking I started with Italian food and sort of mastered Italian cuisine.

And then after 12 years of Italian I really needed another challenge so I sort of dove into the French world of cooking basically to learn their technique. So a lot of it is like French technique. And sort of French some French products but also with a telling blend inside. You know it's just refined European cuisine. What do you love about cooking. I actually love making people happy with food. It's sort of a nourishing thing. I think it's to make somebody happy or just to say like oh my god this is like the most incredible thing I've ever had. It to me that makes my day. I first learned about you a few years ago because I'm always looking for women who are breaking out in various fields and I saw your name and you had been named one of the best chefs by many people and I thought well this is great but I I just from the outside can tell how tough it is for women. Is it still as tough as it looks. It's tough it's a tough it's a tough job but because of the hours it's you know

18. I mean usually start 14 16 hour days holidays forget about night time you know you have to be at the restaurant at night. But you if you have it it's just hard if you want a family. But if you do have a family then you're going to bring your family into it. I think it's like any any business. I used to hate that question like What is it like to be a woman chef because I always felt like a chef as a chef. And we're an equal playing field here. But often they don't seem to. There's not enough room for women chefs I think that's why the question continues to be asked. Let's have the room for women chefs just like you need to jump in and grab it. And and that's it I mean you put your heart and soul into it you're going to it's going to work for you. But it is it is one of those. I think it's sometimes harder to be a woman restaurant or business woman and it's a little bit harder to do that than just a cook. Yeah and how do you balance that because you've expressed your great love for the cooking part but

you've got to be the business person on top of all of these enterprise sort of the visionary is that in business in overseeing like nine entities that we have it's not an easy job but you have to be able to trust your team learn how to build a really good team to carry your vision out. You have to really believe in them and trust in them which is not always easy to do but you have to let it go and you have to say like do I want to move further and I want to keep on growing. And I get inspired every day from my own staff. So that's what keeps me going and learning from them and and just you know I mean we can just keep on growing this is incredible. Now being the visionary you had this vision of this fabulous restaurant. It should be noted that if your restaurants are cheap but this one is way up there. Somebody called it extreme fine cuisine in Boston the top of the extreme fine cuisine heap so the four course meal there is $95 the nine course is one hundred forty five dollars it's in Fort Point. By all accounts gorgeous

and already been noted by foodies everywhere to be a fabulous place. But what gives you the vision in place these days and times to get that restaurant going and know that it was going to become the success it's already become it's only been there a few months. We have been up in six months but the actual full four point channel project has been five years in the making. I as a kid love that area. Five minutes from there my mother would walk me down a street before we took a left to go to finally ends in Gilchrist So to me that area always had that potential to sort of shine and grow. It just so happens to be in South Boston which I find so amazing that Montano is actually in South Boston. Go going that route it's a very sort of nostalgic for me that when I first started my koan every career before I opened numbered I parked 12 years ago I remember going over to Europe in eating probably for a full week lunch at every three Michelin star restaurant. Wow. And at that time

of course I'm opening them and I park and I sort of knew where I wanted to be. That was my goal. To end up as one of those Michelin star restaurants. So you know 12 years ago first restaurant under my belt I sort of knew I wasn't going to get there but I knew I was going to grow into this position or grow into this restaurant that I sort of really really want. So Matan is my dream restaurant it's my dream kitchen. It's totally it's glamorous but it's extremely European. You have lots of space in between tables. The service captains and so forth. There's a home for everything. It's extremely elegant. Yes for sure. It's it's it's what. What I love and the food. I note that Atlantic writer Corby Kummer wrote a piece that he thought was the best in life. He was soaring he said while eating it so that's a pretty high compliment. Yeah he is tough. Yeah it's very tough. It

starts with the bread with him. So you know that's always on your mind when you open a restaurant. But I don't open a restaurant to please a critic at all I open a restaurant first to please my staff in general. This is an incredible team who needed a box like this to work and I mean this is what they want to do for their life. This is their career than that to make this happen. So when you sit down. You know you get this little tiny croissant with hot honey over it and that just starts starts the process going in this incredible butter soup which is just butter mean water I have yard shellfish and a little bit of honey. So the food is just very it's not I want to say seductive in a way but it's just I think so it's sounding like it's just it's just it's just incredible technique driven and precision and incredible products. You know we we know basically every farmer and beef chicken where it all comes from. So we lower the part at all about you know totally totally.

You're at the top of the heap. You know nationally and internationally you know as a as a chef and. And you know that's a phenomenal thing. I watch all of the chef shows and the top chefs. I haven't seen you on one Would You Be The Next Iron Chef whatever you think about those guys. No you know what I'm I've always been told never say no to television. But I'm not a competitive chef at all. On television I don't. I don't actually I don't even watch TV. I hate to say that but I'm never home so I just don't watch it. But I do think there is some importance for the celebrity chef series in terms of getting people to recognize food and to learn how to cook and not just open up a package like Jamie Oliver is doing wonderful things and Mario Batali and all that just to get that word out that you know food is good in its it and different kinds of food. Well in cooking is cooking is good it's not just a chore like cooking is something that should be done on a day to day basis and then of course it brings. It also gets chefs to the White House to talk

about local foods and farmers and you know obesity and all that jazz so. So the celebrity chef series is pretty good in terms of just getting what I do there in the world. But I'm not into the reality shows you know sort of shafted you know some chefs like that and I don't I think it's kind of funny because you have a whole other life doing boxing is exercise. So I think of you as this competitive fighter very strong. Yeah I don't know. Your boss I mean the ring that's fine for cooking. No way around. It's like food is just food and food is cause I'm very confident in what I do and I you know I just not competitive in that but get me out. All right I'd like to see you on The Next Iron Chef I think you'd be good. I'd like to know what's your favorite dish to cook and what's your favorite dish to eat. I would have to say I'm still in love with making pasta. So I love everything about it and I just got back from Rome and I was like oh my god I just had one of those epiphanies where you have this pasta I'll cop an hour and I'm like oh you're making me grow but I've never had anything this

good and it was like the egg yolks were incredible. He was amazing. So pasta I have to say that is still one of my favorite dishes to make and create. But I also I'm a huge fan of the print stuff and you know when I park and I love duck so I don't know I mean it's a favorite. I don't have any favorites. Every day is different. I want listeners to know that you brought in a lovely box of delicious goodies which I'll be devouring is one sport hello which is located right next to Montauk on coconut kept a red velvet cake like cream cheese and some lavender cookies you know all kinds of Southern girl we always like red velvet cake. That's that's the thing. Do you think that the public interest in food and cooking in the last few years has made your job easier or are your customers now pick you or more sophisticated or or less. All of the above. I mean they're picky here but they know more and so that's always great I mean that's challenging That's wonderful they're traveling around the world these days and whether that or into

that and it's kind of like they know food and God love them because that's what makes my job successful. I hope that answers it. Oh it does. What about your legacy. Not just here in Boston but I mean I know you don't like to talk about the women Jeff thing but it but that's a pretty important thing I mean you've you're up there now you're well. You have the next you're one of the Iron Chefs whether you accept the mantle or not or the competition. I think it's great actually I think it's so funny when I have a friend of mine just wrote a book called blood bones and butter and she owns a restaurant in New York City. And I mean the book is amazing and she's a woman chef and she has one restaurant but you know talking to her she's like oh my god I'm in awe of you I mean I was he said of me. I mean our view. So I mean there is that while the camaraderie of like bringing other women chef along and saying you know you can do it and if you have any questions just call. I mean you know if you want to open a catering company just let me know. Let me see I can try to help you and show you the way to do it. I hope I can teach. I hope I can sort of be that sort of mentor to other people who want to bring their career along in the kitchen.

What do you do when you've gotten to your dream restaurant what's next. Oh my god I'm so excited about all these new projects. I do have a few other things that I want to I want to do. They're all up here right now and so they're coming out ahead on paper and see which ones to start first saying their restaurants but there it's all to do with food and will it all be in Boston because you're kind of but your Boston girl. Yes so far. Dana Boston. Yeah and you know you're one of the reasons that the whole reputation of Boston as a food place has changed because people used to say there's not a need here. You know just going to New York. So I'm sure. Well but you know I mean you will admit that that has been the reputation of the place for a while not change that I think. Yeah. No no we have Jasper and Lydia Shire Jody Adams Cambridge in general is on fire right now. Those I don't want to call them kids but I mean it's so nice to see these young entrepreneurs just kicking butt and saying I'm going to open up hungry mother or crazy street be strong or the small wine bar. And I hope that you know

resonates over the Boston side too where you just keep on opening up little restaurants little neighborhoods we all meet great little food joints and we also need fine dining restaurants I mean it's what makes Boston Boston so it's nice to put Boston on the Connery map in you know. Yeah great 10 15 years ago we only had three restaurants now we have like 25 which is great. And you've taken us to. Barbara Lynch My guest is award winning chef Barbara Lynch her latest restaurant Montana was named one of the best new restaurants in America by Bone Appetite magazine chef Barbara Lynch thank you so much for joining me. You Kally a great day overall. You can keep on top of the Kelly Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter. Our friend the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook today show was engineered by Antonio all the art and produced by Chelsea Myers and a white knuckle beat and Abby Ruzicka. This is the Calla Crossley Show where production of WGBH radio Boston's NPR station for news and culture.