Harvard Book Store; WGBH Forum Network; Jacqueline Winspear: The Mapping of Love and Death

I thought the what I do is tell you a little bit about the background to the mapping of love and death. The inspiration for the story work came from and then I'll read a little section from the book. How does that sound. And just as a just get an idea how many of you familiar with the series featuring Maisie dove. OK so we haven't arrived. Yet. Thank you. I did I was also then I know what I need to go back and talk about the character but I think actually many of you have got the characters so that's just great. The interesting thing about ideas where ideas for stories come from is that sometimes you can have an idea for a while. It may be star was not perhaps an idea but you have a curiosity about something. Something has touched you deeply something as I touched the mike. I mean we put technology on me and it's all going to end in tears. Something happens and you think well you know that's something I'd like to explore in a book in a story but you know it's not the right time because something

else has to happen. Another let's say that if the idea that original idea I'm going to explain what I mean in just a second the original idea that original curiosity is like the kindling. And what needs to happen is the spark to light the fire and sometimes the kindling is laid down a good couple of years or more before you find the spot. And then sometimes a bit longer has to pass before the fire is ignited and you are on your way to writing a novel. So let me tell you first of all about the kindling I've been to the battlefields of the psalm and on three occasions now the first time I went to that region to visit the forum of World War one battlefield in the battlefield cemeteries was actually in 2003 and I was doing some background research for the book pardonable lies. If you remember the book part of the lies Maisie Dobbs has to go back to for everybody to look at the ceiling. Is anybody there.

I had to go back to France too as part of her work on the case and this is a very emotional journey for Maisie because she's going back to the place in her early 30s. She's going back to the place where she lost her innocence as a young girl by losing her innocence. I mean the kind of innocence you lose when you see death of a most terrible kind. And I wanted to go to that area to try and put myself in that position how would I feel if. And it was also part personal pilgrimage. My grandfather was severely wounded at the during the Battle of the Somme he was shell shocked and gassed and he suffered terrible leg wounds in fact he was still removing shrapnel shards from his legs until the day he died when he was 77 years of age. And certainly you know seeing as I when I was a child seeing this elderly man who had gone through a terrible time was was clearly a

defining point in my life. So anyway I went along to the battlefield. And you know growing up in the U.K. one of the things that you are used to is the fact that there were war memorials everywhere every hamlet every village every town every city has war memorials. You can go into a bank a post office a factory even and you will see some kind of plaque some kind of memorial which lists the those who fell in both wars the 900 fourteen thousand nine hundred eighteen war and the nine hundred thirty nine thousand nine hundred forty five second world war. So you are used to seeing names but one of the things I think that really touched me the first time I went to the region. Of the battlefield was the memorials to the missing. So why would that impact me. Let's look at somewhere like the Menin Gate which is the memorial that part of memorial

on the edge of the city of which was rebuilt of the Great War. The Menin Gate memorial. Fifty four thousand missing are listed there. Vinnie the Canadian memorial to the missing. Tens of thousands of names. Think for another memorial to the missing. Tens of thousands of names time cult cemetery which is not only a cemetery but a memorial to the missing. Tens of thousands of names and. One of the things that touched me was not simply that these young men were missing. Their remains never to be identified or even never found. Is that what happens to the families. What happens to the people back home. And you can just imagine it if your son is killed you go to a telegram and it said you know that so-and-so has been killed in action. Therefore you have a certain knowledge that he's gone. And in fact battlefield tourism started

even before the end of the Great War when families started making their way to France to Flanders to to pay their respects to go to the cemeteries. So they could look at the name and they would know this. Is gone and they could go through that part of the grieving process that you go through when you see someone laid to rest. But what about those who received messages that their loved ones were missing. There was always the question is he still alive. Is he in a hospital bed somewhere and he doesn't know his name. Is young conscious. Has he run away. Is he a prisoner of war. Has this happened has that happened. It's the great unanswered question. And when I was watching those looking at those names that kept coming back to me now just as an aside there were a couple of very good reasons for the fact that there were so many listed as missing number one British and Commonwealth soldiers the identity discs they were given dog tags

were made of a composite material. Metal is far too precious in a time of war people it was a time when people were literally giving up their saucepans to make munitions and things like that you know there was if you had armed bars around your house and a fence boom they were gone because they could make munitions. So the dog tags were made of a composite material which would not stand the test of time and the elements. So the remains were often found you know without any identification whatsoever. And another reason was that. Particularly for example during the Battle of passion Dale that was the third battle in one thousand seventeen men. Were likely to have died drowning. And so you may wonder how does that happen. And just very quickly at the outset of the Great War when the German army was advancing on Belgium the King of Belgium ordered that the dikes be broken to flood the region and drive back the German army. So what does that

do. The land is completely flooded now add to that the weather there. You know it and winter and spring it can really rain and I live in California where it never rains but it pours. So sorry I keep something that Mike. And you know that the weather can be better. Plus add to that 3 years of shelling and the land becomes air rated MA It wasn't just 2 or 3 feet deep. It was 15 to 20 feet deep. Even if you had a minor wound it was likely that if you fell you drowned. And I can always remember standing looking over toward the area of passion Dale and the gentleman who led the small group that I was with said you know you look over there and just just think to yourself there's probably the remains of some 40000 young soldiers lying 15 to 20 feet deep below the surface of the land. And you know that some of those people correspond to the names on those memorials. You know that on some of those graves gravestone markers where you see

a soldier of the Great War known unto God. Some of those correspond to the markers It's like a jigsaw puzzle. So I was really left with this this just it just affected me very very deeply this knowledge of what happens or the lack of knowledge what happens to the families of the missing and what they must go through. And I knew that one day I would I would write about that. I didn't know what the story would be. Just as an aside to give you an idea of what this meant to the British people it's not mentioned in my book but I just want to sort of give you this. This sort of image if you will that it was after the armistice you know three days of great celebration great celebration people dancing in the street. You know a village party is. And you know people saying don't bother to come to work tomorrow and that's a time when you never get any time off. You know after about three days a sort of collective depression set in because people suddenly realized you know they're not coming home. It's all over

but it's not going back to how it was and particularly for the people that had received those telegrams. Missing or missing presumed dead they were slowly beginning to realize. Perhaps he's not coming back. Perhaps he's not going to be repatriated with prisoners of war perhaps. Perhaps we won't see him again. And yet those people couldn't go through that process of of you know grieving. There was always the question they couldn't close the door so to speak. And it was actually a military chaplain I believe who had the idea of having some sort of ceremony if you will for the unknown soldier. And this idea went all the way up the line and sort of right to the King who said he thought it was very mortal an idea. Well he had missed something because most of the country was pretty modelling that stage and eventually the idea got his blessing. And it was actually in France an army officer in some kind of shared affair or something. The remains of four soldiers were brought in in their

caskets and he laid his hand on one of those caskets and said This is the one to pick and it was a sort of pick anyone sort of thing. And that unknown soldier his remains were brought back to Britain and with full military honors on a gun carriage with broke through the streets of London on route to Westminster Abbey where he was laid to rest in the Abbey. And you can go there to this day to see the tomb of the Unknown Warrior. All Matt day hundreds and thousands of people turned out. Hundreds of thousands of people. And you can just imagine him standing there thinking to themselves is that my boy. Is that the love of my life. That my brother is that my best mate. And the people were able to to some extent you know what they all thought they would claim their loved ones so to speak. And it it was balm for the soul. Very much so. So if you will that that emotion that I experienced in that questioning and wondering about that was my

kindling I knew I would one day write a story about the missing but I didn't quite know what the shape it would take but you know you have to just wait for the spark to come along and then it was two years later that the spark came along. My husband was reading the local paper to a local free paper the Santa Barbara Independent and he said oh you should read this this is right up your alley. And he ripped this out of the paper and passed it to me and and are just read you the headline in the first paragraph. Unmarked grave where one soldier's remains found in Belgium with ties to Santa Barbara. This is a pretty for assistance in resolving a mystery that has its roots in the First World War I do which the city and Bank of Santa Barbara have great significance. Well well well I mean. Talk about right up my alley. I read the story and was immediately captivated by a Very quickly I'll tell you about it. It was this article was actually

written not by a journalist but it was sent to the Santa Barbara Ind. as a letter from a gentleman David Bach. He's an Englishman. He's actually a senior policeman who took early retirement too and when he took early retirement he decided that he would set up a business doing something he really loved and he had a passion for the history of the Great War and an encyclopedic knowledge of the battlefield. Interesting you know the gentleman that I went to as part of the mike to it was also an ex-policeman and did exactly the same thing. And that's how I eventually let David Bartlett. I was introduced to him but David in more recent years has become very involved with identification of remains when they're found because to this day the remains of World War 1 soldiers are being found in France in Flanders in that region. And he it's sort of almost his life's work that he wants to put a name to these

boys if he can. And he takes what information he's given what information is on. And he he's like a terrier. You'll go with it you'll dig. And here's what he says about the remains of a soldier that were found and he was called in to consult and with identification he explained that the skeletal remains were wrapped in an army ground sheet and it clearly being buried by comrades. Obviously with some with with due reverence the body it was lying on its right side. The soldier's dog tags were not found and that would be for the reason I've just explained. I. Found with the remains was a wrist watch clearly of some value and it was one of those watches that had a little flat where you would inscribed it to your darling son or something unfortunately so corroded. And so distressed that they couldn't make out anything on the on the wrist watch. There was a regimental cap badge of the Lancashire fuselages which is a premier British regiment. Now that was found in the rip cage

which is a really interesting point because Cap budgets were quite expensive cat badges the little badge that you put on your cap and if you lost it you get into terrible trouble and you'd have to buy a new one. And you don't want to be spending your army pay on a new cap badge. So what the soldiers did before they went up the line to the to the front line they take of the cabbage and pop it into a pocket. And then if they were one of the lucky ones to come back in only two out of every five came back they just put the cap back home and no one would get into trouble. So he had obviously done that. He was taking care of that. There was other items found close to him his Lee Enfield rifle mess tins and various other sort of service equipment. The most important find however wrote David was a letter well it containing what appeared to be paper money and personal papers as might be expected. The Will it had been immersed in water for a considerable length of time.

And it's not been possible to identify the contents to date. Surprisingly and it is this fact that is promoted my CORRESPONDENT THE Well it bears the legend the central bank Santa Barbara California where the contents assisted in identifying the dead man. Why was a British soldier in possession of a wallet issued by an American bank. You could go on with that for a long time. So I mean I read this and as there's more details there and at the end there was David's email. Immediately off I went to my computer. And my name is Jacqueline Winspear and I'm with a great interest in the great war blah blah blah blah blah and can I help. And I was put in touch with some local historians. David's motivation for sending a letter to the paper was that PAP's there might be a family in the area that would remember a British man living locally. Paps became a friend of someone in the family perhaps some story has come down or

something's been written in letters perhaps perhaps perhaps it was a long shot. And during my correspondence with David a couple of other things came up that I actually found very interesting and the first thing being that he explained that this fellow was quite a big chap. Now. By that he meant well nourished. And these this is quite an important point because the average British soldier and obviously on average that is the side but the average British soldier was about 5 foot 8 inches tall. The average British officer was about 5 foot 10 and the reason for the discrepancy was that the stations in life from which they were drawn. If you were an officer you came from the landed gentry the aristocracy the merchant classes and you'd had generations of better nutrition than the bank clerks. The post office clerk the factory workers the farmers and so on. And yet this chap was quite a big guy and he was

you know they could tell from his teeth that he had had very good nutrition he was an officer and there were some slight differences in his uniform which he didn't explain to me. But. The other thing the other item that was found next to his remains was a collection. Of very expensive German writing instruments. Different colored pens were very specific sort of nips if you will and in fact they even got a couple a couple of scratches of ink out of them. And this fascinated me. And I said my husband I started to discuss it. And I said you know he was you know maybe he'd worked on trench maps. Maybe he was a cartographer. And you know my husband said Well you know that's not that's an idea because a lot of California was still being that at that time. And you know as we talked about it more we remembered of course a lot of the oil and I mean the oil industry in California was still going through the process of mapping their land even though you know that

really started in the end of the eighteen hundreds. So you know we start speculating as you do and the other thing that I remember reading and it was actually you know Ferguson's book The pity of war I don't know if any of you are familiar with that book was that in the year the four years for example leading up to the Great War Britain lost as many young men to emigration to the lands of opportunity as she did in the war. They went to Australia New Zealand Canada South Africa and the United States. Now I think they come to the first four of those. As soon as war broke out. I mean young men are often filled with the desire to serve their country as soon as a war breaks out and they will rush to enlist. What happens a few months later is that they think to themselves Gosh I could get killed doing this you know and then for all that I listen for the way but. Most of them were able to list with regiments in the country as their adoption so to speak. So they you know they joined the

Australians New Zealand regiments the Canadian regiments and so on. And of course a good number of them came back to England because they wanted to fight for their country if they were in the United States they couldn't join a local regiment because the United States didn't come into the war until later on in 1919 and in the early days of the Great War. To a large extent American sympathy was with Germany and that was because of the great number of German immigrants many of whom immediately rushed back to join you know to fight for their country. So you know knowing that when I started to speculate and think what you know if I was a young man with a skill and let's say let's just say I was some sort of map maker. And I wanted to go west and seek my fortune. You get a lot worse than going to California wouldn't you. I mean it is the oil industry was opening up and California has always had that myth. It's it's where you make your gold. It's where gold is to be found. And there is an oil industry there. In fact Union Oil which

had the coast so not from I don't know how familiar you are with that area from say Ventura right up to Santa Maria. You need an oil was the one of the first oil companies to actually hire surveyors. And in fact one of the towns along the coast is named after its chiefs the chief surveyor. So that was really interesting to me so you can see what had started to happen. I mean here is you know David given the facts and what I had started to do and that's because I guess that's what I do. I had started to move into the realms of fiction and I realized that what I was doing was building a character. And the more I thought about it I realized I was moving away from what was so into Definitely into the realms of fiction and story. And then I realized I've got my spark. And it took actually even longer for Michael Clifton to be to land on the page so to speak and I would never

say that my story is based upon this true story because that would suggest a greater amount of fact. In the life of this young man. But what it did was inspire the character of Michael Clifton who you'll meet in the first chapter of this book let me tell you about Michael Clifton then I'll read you a little bit from the book. Michael Clifton is the youngest son of a Boston family. In fact his father was himself an immigrant from England. He had left his home to get away from the family business that he didn't want to join in the family that you didn't get on very well with. He came to America and like many immigrants he wanted his piece of land and he worked very very hard. But that one piece of land became another piece of land became another piece of land and soon he went into construction and he became a very wealthy man through hard work and he married very well. And he and his wife they loved each other dearly had the four children. But one of the things they were said is you don't need

to join the family business they had two sons because he had never wanted the pressure put on his sons that was put on him and that led him to leave his homeland. But Michael has definitely got the bug and being specially being the youngest son he sort of wants to prove himself to his father in particular is educated in California here is a map maker and surveyor. And what we meet him he's just bought a piece of land with a bequest from his maternal grandfather. This land is in the Santa Ana's Valley and it's just a little bit of land that hasn't been snapped up by the oil companies. And he knows that this land holds riches but far greater than that. He's fallen in love with this piece of land. And we meet him as he's sitting there just you know he's drawing some maps of the land he's sketching the land because he's going back to Boston. He's making his way back the next day. And he's what still a lot of things to show his family to say this is where it is. He gets into Santa Barbara. He's going to sort of wash away the dust and have a good meal and then the next day he's going to be boarding a

train and. As he's about to go into the hotel he hears a newsboy on the street. Read all about it read all about it. Kaiser to take over the whole world. That's a bit sensationalist but it actually was a headline in The L.A. Times when in early August 1914 and he sees this headline and he reads the paper. And he is suddenly filled with this desire to go to England and to serve the country that his father left. And part of it is he thinks well this will this make him really proud of me but there's also that desire for an adventure. And he said yes but you know training a mapmaker and that is nothing if not an adventure. And he knows that he has a skill that's needed any thinks that you know through his father citizenship he can get he can worm his way into the British Army. His parents think Oh goodness me he's going to be packed off back home thank goodness. And there you know let's let him learn a lesson there. But in fact he's not packed back home. And unfortunately Michael will never see

his family again even though he said to them Don't worry I'll be home by Christmas it's all going to be over. But you will never see Boston again or he will and he will never see California again. And when we meet Maisie in the book she's actually in she's expecting to see Martha and Edward Clifton. Michael's remains have been found in early 932 his parents have traveled to France to see him laid to rest and then they go on to London. They've been recommended to see Maisie Dobbs because they have a collection of letters that were found that was found with Michael. And they believe it is from a woman. They haven't really read them because after all he was a young man and years a time of war and they they don't really know what they might end up reading so they'd rather not poke around too much. But they know that there's no. I did. And they think that she can help. And they also have a diary and so on and so forth. But anyway I'm just going to read you from this meeting is coming to a close.

I don't know how I'm doing time I said I've got no idea I'm not very good when it comes to keeping track of my time. But this will take a couple of minutes. Martha Clifton took her husband's hand in both her own with a batch of quite a few letters. Given that they were buried for years they're in fair condition due to the waxed paper and rubber cloth that Michael had used to wrap them. They were clearly of some value to our son yet we couldn't bring ourselves to read them. She looked down at her hands then began to turn her wedding and engagement rings around and around lifting them above the first bone in her slender finger then pushing them back down again. She looked up. I don't want to pry into my son's past but to me the hand seems to be that of a woman. Perhaps someone Michael loved and I'd love to know who she is. I understand said Mazie her voice soft. She turned to Edward Clifton. Do you have anything else. Clifton reached into the inside pocket of his overcoat. I have a journal a diary kept by Michael. Again some of the pages are fused with damp

and folks with age. But we've read a few paragraphs. He paused as he handed the brown paper wrapped book to Maisie who reached forward to take the package from him. So am I to take it that you would like me to read the letters in the diary that you wish me to identify the letter writer and she looked from Clifton to his wife. Am I right to assume that you would like me to try to find this person Martha Clifton smiled though her eyes had filled with tears. Yes yes please Miss Dobbs. We can help a little because we've already placed an advertisement in several British newspapers and we've received a number of replies. You see that we didn't read Michael's letters we opened one or two to see if there was an address or full name but there was nothing to identify the writer in the advertisement we said we'd like to hear from a woman who had known Michael Clifton of Boston in the United States during the war. Edward Clifton cleared his throat and began to speak again. And I thought that given your background you might want to see this document which we received from the French authorities.

He held out a brown envelope toward Mazie as she began to draw out the pages Clifton continued. It's a report from the doctor who examined our son's remains. It's a post-mortem of sorts. Charles has seen the report and we've talked about it. And I said I'd rather not read it said Martha Clifton. Yes I understand. Maisie began to scan the page. She made no comment but nodded as she reached the end of each paragraph. She could feel Edward Clifton's gaze upon her and when she looked up she knew that in the brief meeting of their eyes there was an understanding. She knew why he had come to her and that the truth of Michael Crichton's death had been kept from his mother and she could understand how a French doctor possibly tired probably weary of another aging corpse brought from the battle scarred land upon which so many had died how he had missed what an eminent Boston surgeon one who himself had served in that same war had seen when he read the report.

It looks fairly straightforward but I'd like to keep it here if I may. Of course Clifton looked at his wife and smiled as if to assure her that all would be well now and that they had made the right decision in seeking the help of this British investigator. When I had the letter sent over to you as soon as we get back to our hotel we're staying at The Dorchester and will send some photographs of Michael. Martha Clifton seemed to press back tears again as she spoke. I'd like you to know what he was like. Thank you. A photograph would be most useful though I have a picture of Michael in my mind already. You must have been very proud of him. We were. And we loved him so very much Mr. Hobbs. Edward Clifton reached into his pocket once again and drew out another envelope. Your advance per our correspondence. Will your school to the couple downstairs to the front door and help them into the motor car waiting outside. Maisie looked down from the window and watched as they drove away Billy waving them

off as if bidding farewell to a respected uncle and aunt. She heard him slam the front door then make his way upstairs to the office. There was still nippy out there miss. He sat down at the table and reached for a jar of colored pencils to begin work. Yes yes it is. Maisie remained at the window still clutching Michael Crichton's Journal and The Oval containing the post-mortem report should be an easy one I will get the old letters were not nice and slow find out who the writer is and Bob's your uncle we're fine Michael Crichton's lady friend and there we are. Job done. Maisie turned and pulled back a chair to sit down opposite Billy. Not quite. What do you mean. Unless I'm much mistaken Michael Clifton was not killed by the shell that took the lives of his fellow men. He was murdered. Thank you very much. And. I see.

As a very quick postscript. I corresponded with David Bartlett lost middle of last year to sort of say And by the way you know I've written a book and you know it was inspired by the story. But I really wanted to my purpose in writing was to find out whether the young man had been identified. I you know he stayed with me and I keep something that I'm really sorry but I received a letter from David to say that he had been buried the need to rest at the time Court cemetery and with the plane marker which would have said a soldier of the Great War known unto God. You know something's happened quite organically when you're writing a book when you're creating a story. And for me it was. It was just an obvious thing to do that. You know I want to know what happens to the people. I want to know how you know you. You finish work on one case and then go on to the next. And I felt that it was

really important and this is something that would have been part of Maisie's mentorship you know when when she was working with Maurice blanch that he would have that he would be insisted upon this is how we do things. And it just became a part of the process that to begin work a new on a fresh case. We have to lay the old one to rest as best we can with all the ends tied up. And frankly when I'm reading a book that's what I like to I like to know that all is as well as it can be and obviously you know it's not going to be well because you're dealing with with life and death you're dealing with some very hard subjects whatever. You know whatever sort of category of the genre you're in. You know if someone's dying then that's that's not terribly nice. But. People have to go through the wringer of it. So how do we make that all right.

How do we come to some kind of peace. And I think that it how do we come to as much peace as we possibly can. And that to me seemed just something that they would do. So it was kind of an organic process that final accounting. And you know you just think of it you know the metaphor you find accounting so that you could you know on your bottom line you can say I have done the best I can. I'm not just leaving everything hanging. I'm going back to these places and I'm sort of X if you will coming to terms with what has gone before this obvious question if you will the shadow has been starting to become Aster across the proceedings for quite a while if you remember Paula belies when she was in Paris she overhears the young people talking about Hitler and blah blah blah blah blah. And they're having this big conversation and then you know a messenger of truth. There was the you know you can see the Specter again. So it's a looming crisis looming. How did she appear. You

know that that was really I can't say. Well maybe there was some kindling there but it was she was she just came to me and I know that sounds quite a flip but. I was literally stuck in traffic. And by the way prior to that I was not a writer of fiction. I had my day job. And when I wasn't doing those I was writing nonfiction personal essays articles and so on so forth. I love memoirs for example. And I really thought that that's where my concentration would be as a writer because I liked to deal with what is so. And literally I was driving to work and I had what I've since referred to as my moment of artistic grace because it's the only way I can describe it literally stuck in traffic with a sea of red lights in front of me. And it was a rainy day and I'm also stuck at a red light. And I do a lot of people do in the circumstances I'm a bit of a

daydream and usually starts off with. Did I close the back door. Did it. Will the dog get out today. If I should should I go back but no I can't but probable and then. Suddenly something else happens you know and you go into the realms of danger true daydreaming and for me what happened suddenly in that daydream I saw this woman dressed in the garb of the late mid to late 1990s come up through Warren Street Station in London. I instinctively knew it was Warren Street except they had the old wooden escalators. She came through a turnstile. Not one of those machines that grabs the ticket and then grabs you. And then she came out she spoke to the newspaper vendor she walked down Warren Street where she took an armful of out of a battered black document case and out came the keys and then she walked in. Those of you that read the first book know this scene. Suddenly I heard all this honking and all the traffic and moved on. And I was told to. Stop.

I'm going to say I'm sure they were probably thinking you know is this woman waiting for a particular shade of green today. So by the time I got to work I had the whole story in my head. And that night I got home I wrote the first chapter which had never changed since that time. And you know as I say I refer to as my moment of artistic grace. But I don't think those moments happen in a vacuum and literally since childhood I've always been fascinated by the era from say just before the Great War right up until the end of rushing in Britain at the end of the Second World War and in fact that didn't and rationing didn't until 1954. And I realized that what I've always been interested in is what happens to ordinary people in extraordinary times. And I became very interested to the point of collecting books and what have you. Very interested in what happened to women in particular in Britain

at that time because their lives changed dramatically. They were the first generation of women to go to war in modern times. So it was all there if you will a maid and that was the kindling. I'm not and to this day I'm still not sure what sparked was because she came to me fully formed with a name. And it was my is my J.K. Rowling moment you know she got I think. She said. Harry Potter so I get what Maisie don't. You know. And there is no movie or TV series in the making. I would add that it's been optioned a couple of times for a TV series and I have to confess on both occasions I was really glad when the auction expired and I got it back because I couldn't. This script scared the life out of me. You know it's such a difficult thing because on the one hand you think well that would be such an adventure to see your character depicted on screen. And on the other hand you know the second your character is depicted on screen you've lost your character and everybody's you know we've all caught. For example I've got my Mazy you got your

Maizie. A man may see might not look like your Macy but you've got her as a character that you come back to. But the second the character appears on screen for better or for worse we will say music which I don't know we'll see. You know if someone offered me a few mill I myself I guess. You know it was quite like the idea of an Aston Martin at the front of the house but I don't I'm not that kind of person but thank you for the question. I think of I think a good series a very well done series would be absolutely wonderful I think it would just take my breath away. But it's such a risk. I mean as I know so many writers who who actually will not go down that route because they they can't bear the thought of losing their characters. And I can understand that. You know I didn't find her she was found by already a renaissance. Yeah yeah yeah. She's she's worked. I understand she's very good I think. I think you listen to a little bit because I I can't listen to them any more than I can

read them once they're done because I know I'd want to go back and change things. But in any fight every single book has as one earphones award from audio file magazine because she's done so such a great job. So you know I get I should actually write to her because I have more compliments about that than you know than one would ever expect for an audio version. The questions about Kong where did he come from. I am. You know like many characters can just came along but they're also if you were historical underpinnings. Often people ask me about the fact that Maisie meditates and she's does yoga and and it's interesting because one of the things you have to do is put look at the history and look at the connections Britain is was was part of what was the head of an empire the jewel in the crown. Was India and the Indian sub continent that was the jewel in the crown.

And a lot of if you will cultural dialogue went back and forth and it wasn't all about Gandhi and the mar the salt marshes and things like that in the early part of the last century particularly among what we would today call perhaps the chattering classes people that Maisie would have been exposed to through Morris social reformers in people who are interested in other ways of doing things. There was a lot of interest in Eastern Eastern philosophy Eastern mythology meditation yoga. I've actually got books on yoga going back to 19 11. And as I was say it wasn't actually invented in L.A. 15 years ago. It does have a historical underpinning and you know and he is a say is a someone from my imagination. But it's the sort of thing that might have happened. I mean there were cases in the sort of British army in

India of particular officers often going off and they go a wall and up sitting on a mountain with their guru or something like that. There was a great deal of interest in you know particular meditation and the states of mind that can be achieved through meditation and also the same time if you think of the cycles like psychology aspects that also has its underpinnings. If you think of I mean Young wrote his doctoral thesis in 1904 So it's all there if you will. I actually just as an aside there was this. Woman in early 1930s England who decided that British women were getting flabby and she decided that she would design a series of exercises and get everybody doing exercises. I was kind of like a precursor to curves. I would imagine. And the interesting thing about this woman is she had been born and raised in India. Well her exercises were based on yoga and you could

actually see these women in Hyde Park with their shorts and and you know tops and just doing you know not quite down dog but definitely they're doing their lunges you know. So interesting. I think it's an important if your most important factor in bringing to life time and place. Clothes are really important how people wear clothes what they were you know them. And also it tells you a lot about the character. She's not in the forefront of fashion she's not a fashion plate. And in fact most people you know I think if you see a TV series where everybody said in 1999 everybody's wearing the clothes of 1929 you know that that's not how it is. You know I'm wearing clothes that I've had for a good while. I actually remember watching a movie where I think it was Uma Thurman was dating a younger man and he said he was 27 and she said I've got T-shirts older than that you know. Then why are clothes that are older and so on now the reason I'm saying that is that

Macy often where she get her clothes get around. So it's Then you can see that if you were her playoff Priscilla who looks there is always go wearing that again you know and the next thing you know she's rifling through her closet and she's throwing some things that Maisie to wear because she despairs Mazie and they'd also brings out for example I like to see what she looks like when she goes down the street. The fact that she would dress up for some meetings and not for others if you will. And I like also for example the play of characters particular say between Priscilla and Maisie which really highlights Maisie's values the things that are important to her are not important to her. For example if you remember Priscilla I think it was at the beginning of messenger of truth when she said you know we were in that lovely red dress or something and but you can see you dyed it yourself. So you know and and

also clothes really that they tell you a lot about time in particular. It's always been interested in the social history of fashion. So it I mean so I just like weaving it in. You know I just I like to see what everybody's got on. There you go. I think if if I were in a former life I might have been you know a wardrobe mistress or something like that. I would still have been really fun to do that for the theater. I think that's probably the end of questions if anyone's got a burning question. Thank you very much for coming. Thank you.