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I'm in class with MS students at Simon's Rock who you know are 16 17 18 years old some years I want to I want to just sort of show them that class every now and then and say See how much time you have and see how much talent you have and you see these people here and you know it's it would be sort of am a wake up call for them in some ways. Like what they what they can do with what they have and how they should take advantage of it but then to do that I would sound even older than I am because it would be like me waving my cane like you whippersnappers you have it so once you now look at these people with jobs. So I try to avoid stuff like that. I don't do that I never make reference to popular music and stuff because I always make a reference to a movie or something will be like that came out in like 1995 which to them is ancient. So I don't void things that make me look like a curmudgeon. I think one of the the longer you write I think one of the great. One of the great enemies of good writing one of the great enemies of writers who have been around for a while and been doing it for a while is cleverness. I think that that.

When you teach I always used to particularly like teaching the beginners all I mean there's a particular thrill in teaching say a graduate student who is you know if if it's if it's a spectrum is 1 to 100 and you and you catch a really talented graduate student who's at 95 and really only has to go those last five steps and to help them go those last five steps it can be can be can be exhilarating and wonderful. But I still like teaching the beginners in a very selfish way because when you teach the beginners you're talking with them about the most fundamental things about what makes a story work what's it run what makes it move. And I found that it was impossible to teach the beginners semester after semester and explain to them why a story isn't going to work without a clearly articulated conflict without without everybody every reader knowing what's at stake in this story.

What is this. What is this character afraid of water. What poker metaphor is this. Is this character all in. Are all the chips in the center of the table here. And to ask a student do you really know everything that you need to know about about this character. Have you chosen the correct point of view to ask a student a beginning student. Those kinds of questions is to force you I think to ask the same questions of yourself when you're working and sometimes the answer to those those questions can can be very revealing. It's important to ask because to ask those questions of ourselves or or to be forced through our students sometimes to ask those questions because as we get older and the more stories we write the more tricks we learn the more clever we become the more possible for it for us. It is to paper over things. When youve been at it for a while you really can polish a turd and it will shine. But its still a turd. And so sometimes teaching and

especially teaching the teaching the beginners will if you are a writer who's been at it for a while and have been in and have begun to think that because of your you know because of all the tricks you've learned and everything like that you're a better writer. Sometimes being forced to ask yourself can you know have I clearly articulated what's at stake for this character and this story can be very revealing to you at a time when you maybe that's exactly the question that you need to be asking yourself. One more question I think. Thank you go ahead. Yeah I hear that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. This is the one thing that didn't play in the back list of all the magazines that I read and it it really is up to date I work every year

to make sure all the contact information is correct submissions prythee. If you guys can answer this just as well I submit everywhere that's my answer. Anyone who will have me is kind of where I start from. You know when you know you're just getting started you send stuff out and you just hope that you get somebody to say yes you know there are stories that I've sent out that I've been published but they've been turned down by 20 30 different magazines and then you get somebody that loves it. And that's what that's what matters. And you know everybody has their dreams probably like their dream list of places they hope to publish someday but you're just getting started.