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I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. In the last five years the numbers of girls becoming teenage mom started to creep upward and they've been on the accent ever since and with teen pregnancy comes the increased likelihood of putting school between 2007 and 2008. Approximately 10000 kids. Dropped out of public schools throughout Massachusetts and nationwide this is to sticks are equally discouraging. The data show that teen pregnancy is the leading force behind this dropout crisis. Today at the State House this issue was brought to the fore with a focus on how to keep teen parents in school. We'll check in on what policies are afoot to reverse this trend. From there we look at what it means in the 21st century to run on the independent ticket. And we top it all off with playwright Lois wrote on her new work The Emancipation of Mandy and Ms alley. Up next from adolescence to abolition. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying President Obama is meeting with the families of those killed in a plane crash near Buffalo last year. The

victim's relatives have been pressing for stronger aviation safety laws after an investigation raised questions about the pilot's training and long work schedules. Fifty people were killed in that crash. The private discussion comes ahead of a town hall meeting that President Obama is due to hold later this hour. It's part of his tour to reassure Americans about his plans for economic recovery. NPR's Joel Snyder has more details. It's the latest leg of what the White House dubs Mr. Obama's main street economic tour which has already taken him to Pennsylvania North Carolina Georgia and Illinois. In Buffalo he's told a round table with workers at a small manufacturing plant. He's expected to talk about his economic agenda and point to fresh signs that the recovery is strengthening. Republicans say the president's policies have not been successful in tackling high unemployment even though the job market appears to be mending. Last week's monthly jobs report showed the largest increase in jobs in four years. But the unemployment rate rose to 9.9 percent as previously discouraged workers reenter the job

market. While in Buffalo Mr. Obama is expected to urge Congress to act quickly on new job creation measures including those aimed at strengthening small businesses. Trial Snyder NPR News Washington. Now the latest snapshot on unemployment reveals a drop in new claims for a fourth week in a row today the Labor Department reports the number of people filing for the first time dropped by 4000 last week to a seasonally adjusted four hundred forty four thousand just about what analysts were expecting. More people are in federal custody in connection with the failed car bombing in Times Square. NPR's Dina Temple-Raston reports the FBI has been searching locations in the Boston area New York and New Jersey. FBI agents fanned out over three states this morning to search homes of people they believe are connected to the Times Square bombing attempt. At least two people have been arrested on alleged immigration violations but it's unclear what their role is in the case. Officials would not say whether the searches were a result of information gleaned after more than a week of interviews

with the main suspect in the case or result of other avenues related to the investigation. The additional searches do not come as a complete surprise. Agents have been saying for some time that the investigation was continuing and in particular they were looking for suspects who might have helped finance the plot. The main suspect in the case Pakistani-American Faisal Shahzad has yet to appear in court to face charges because he's been cooperating with authorities. Dina Temple-Raston NPR News New York. U.S. stocks still in the red at last check the Dow Jones Industrial Average down 25 points at ten thousand eight hundred seventy two. Nasdaq down 13 24 12. This is NPR News. The chief military adviser for Thailand's anti-government movement is severely hurt an aide says the poll is in the hospital with a head wound. The report comes after several gunshots and explosions were heard in the heart of Bangkok today. The Thai government characterizes cutie as a terrorist behind violent anti-government protests in the

last two months. New numbers for polio are in the worldwide incidence of the infectious disease held steady last year but there are signs it is decreasing. NPR's Joanne PSLE Berner explains. Polio was slated to be eradicated years ago but it's stubbornly stuck around. Last year sixteen hundred six people mostly children were paralyzed reportedly paralyzed by the infection. According to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that's only down 45 cases from the year before. Problems with vaccinations continue to take the blame. The difficulty of getting to children who live in unstable areas and local leaders who are focused on other health problems. Nigeria seems to be over its mini epidemic which occurred after false rumors questioned the safety of the vaccine. Cases are down there by 50 percent. On the other hand 19 African countries that had been polio free reported new cases last year. Joanne slow burner NPR News.

Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan is trying to shore up congressional support for a confirmation she went to Capitol Hill today where Kagan met with Senator Arlen Specter the Republican turned Democrat who faces a tough primary next week as a Republican Specter voted against confirming Kagan to her current post as solicitor general saying she hadn't been open enough. Now Specter describes a Supreme Court nominee as very forthcoming. I'm Lakshmi Singh NPR News Washington. Support for NPR comes from us on college e united with thirteen hundred on colleges nationwide to help patients fight cancer online at us on college E dot com. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. More than 25 percent of kids who drop out of school say that becoming a teen parent is the reason. Earlier today to address this issue the Massachusetts alliance on teen pregnancy presented a briefing on their groundbreaking report at the State House. The clear and

simple message that they brought to Beacon Hill preventing teen pregnancy and keeping more teen parents in school is the way to stop this dropout crisis. For the lowdown on how this played out at the White at the State House and for a deeper understanding of the forces behind these dropout rates we're joined by Patricia Quinn executive director of the Massachusetts alliance on teen pregnancy. Listeners please call us if you have an experience as a teacher as a teen parent or even as a parent of a teen parent. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1. Eighty nine seventy. Patricia Cornwell combat. Thank you so much thanks for having me and if you can hook me up with that White House briefing. OK. Tell us what you told the folks on Beacon Hill today the key findings. Well first off we made clear the connection between dropout and teen pregnancy as you just did in your intro and how important it is to address teen pregnancy both from the perspective of preventing teen

pregnancy and supporting comprehensive sexuality education and doing a better job of helping pregnant and parenting teens stay in school and finish important finding of the report which I think may be a surprise to folks who don't know pregnant parenting teens is that many of the teens we surveyed reported increased motivation to stay in school. Once they found out they were pregnant or when they became a parent that doesn't match with the fact that so many of them are leaving school. So what. What's in the space of that paradox What do we need to do differently to capitalize on what they're telling us is a motivation to stay. Twenty five percent of the students who were having trouble I'm sorry 50 percent of the students who are having trouble in high school before they became pregnant said it actually became easier to stay in school once they were pregnant or parenting just sounds so counterintuitive it absolutely is for for us adults right. The deal is they

may not they may have had one foot out the door when they were before they became pregnant but there are new responsibilities. Make it clear to them. I NEED TO DO THIS I NEED TO FINISH I need to get through high school and hopefully go on for further education because I'm responsible now for not just myself but for my child. It's completely the opposite. The general adult response when a young person gets pregnant I think the kind of general feeling is like well OK you know end of the educational road for that student. And that's at the precise moment that the student may be saying no I'm ready I really want this I want to finish and I've got to get more serious about it. And folks who work with pregnant parenting teens have shared that story with us and teen parents have shared that story over and over again. But we're missing that opportunity to capitalize on their motivation. Well I can say that back in my day if you got pregnant in high school first of all that was the thing that everybody preached you know in in great horrifying do don't don't don't because it's over for you if

you ever wanted to be educated. So you got pregnant in high school and then that's what everybody said it really was the end of the road for you that was it wasn't just hinted at it was made clear. Right. So absolutely. I want to be clear that we want to do everything we can to support. Affective sexuality education and supports for all teens so that more young people get through high school and start to reach their own potential before they become parents. But we have a population of young people who are getting pregnant and becoming parents and we've got this opportunity because of their new motivation to really change the outcome for them. If a young woman becomes pregnant as a teen her child has a 27 percent chance of growing up in poverty if she also doesn't get a high school diploma or a GED. The chance of her child growing up in poverty increases to 42 percent. So we gain nothing as a as a society by not supporting teens pregnant parenting teens finishing high school.

Now let me go back and say I've watched a many a documentary on teen pregnancy is quite popular these days. Well I'm not even talking about you know bad Lifetime movies I'm just talking about you know you know really good stuff. Yeah. And all the ones that I watched you know the teen mother said. Wow. I mean I thought having a baby was going to be better and now I really wanted to go back to school but I just don't see I can make it because caring for this kid is really a full time job as we know it is so. So it's again back to counterintuitive to your it seems like they just were weighted down and in this conversation we really been pointing toward the teen moms but you also say that this affects the teen dads as well. Absolutely. Nineteen percent of young men who leave school say that becoming a teen parent was a leading reason so it certainly impacts young men in our schools as well. And there's no question that becoming a parent as a teen creates a significant obstacle to finishing high school and I think that that's the that's what you're expressing that's what you hear from young people about the struggle and

sometimes the despair about how they're going to do it. But what they've told us through our survey is that there's a there's a window where they're very motivated where they recognize their new responsibilities and what it means to be responsible for another person and what that's going to take to really do it. And if we put the right supports in place that make it possible so that that burden is not insurmountable. Things like childcare and maybe flexible scheduling and different ways to earn credits things that potentially could help a lot of kids at risk for dropout but that are of particular importance to pregnant parents and teens that we can really change the picture of that large number of pregnant parenting teens who do leave school. OK we're talking with Patricia Quinn executive director of the Massachusetts alliance alliance on teen pregnancy. They presented a report this morning at the State House about keeping more teen parents in school and the way to do it is to acknowledge that they are more motivated after having their children now.

OK so we knowledge that you have the statistics to say motivation keeps kids in school or makes them want to go back to school and finish their education. How then do we work that so that they can go to school because as I've said I looked at those documentaries and it's pretty hard when you're trying to go to school and take your kids. Absolutely. And the longer a young person stays away the harder it is to go back and we all we all know that from our own experience of you know maybe adults going back to school the things that we can do some of it is supports like childcare and making sure that that family has some stability in terms of housing etc. some basic things that. That we can do. But frankly some of it is an expectation. Does that young person get the message that a the school expects them back. B They want them back and C they will do what they can to help make it possible for that student to graduate. I think one of the most interesting things

about our findings and the recommendations are not all of them come with a big giant price tag you know changing an attitude and changing your perspective on what the capabilities are of that young person who is a parent to stay in school and finish. You know we're not talking about money here we're talking about an attitude shift like we want to prevent teen pregnancy but when a young person gets pregnant and decides to be a parent. If we can change our perspective about what we expect and an understanding of their capability and their motivation we can really change the outcome for two lives at least two lives. Well now is the stigma still there you know. Again back in my day you got pregnant in high school and you know even some of the brave people that came back and tried to you know return to school. There was a definite stigma. So one of the findings that makes us really hopeful about Massachusetts is that in general teen parents were reporting feeling relatively

supported in their school setting that there wasn't a lot of blatant discrimination against them. Though I will say 15 percent of the survey respondents said that they were treated worse while they were pregnant 5 percent while they were parenting. And that that kind of makes sense right. Pregnant girls in the high school are very visible and it's a lot easier to kind of be a target in that situation. Now this despite the fact that from a pop culture standpoint being a teen parent or being or having a kid out of wedlock. This seems not to have the same kind of stigma. And I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth but you know nowadays it's like oh you see all the stars doing it and it's all very popular and you know. Yeah kids are smart enough and smart enough to know the challenges and they know when that when a friend or someone in their school becomes pregnant and is going to be a parent. They know the struggles that person is likely to face and I think that there's definitely some sort of

stigma attached to that in that they are going to face challenges and everybody knows it so despite you know we're not Britney Spears sister with a big bank account for the most part these are young people who will struggle. They are going to struggle much much more absent a high school diploma or GED and really access to higher ed. What about just prevention which I know is part and parcel of you know your message anyway just trying to get kids to understand what the reality is before. I mean now again on the pop culture front there's a couple of shows on cable about teen pregnancies or they try to get kids to think about the realities and demonstrate with real stories of kids like you know 16 and Pregnant. You know this is not fun and games this is art. You know with that would we be better how do you answer somebody who says it's better to put the emphasis on the prevention and you know too bad. It's a sad story of some of these girls get pregnant and some as young

men have to drop out but yeah unfortunately. And we definitely confront that in our work. The first thing I would say about that is we gain nothing as a society to leave teen parents behind. Their children are going to be in our school systems again and the children of teen parents particularly if the mother has not gotten an education are going to struggle educationally. They're going to be more at risk for failure. They're going to be more at risk for dropouts So whether or not you think that that teen parent deserves them in quotes any support. As a society we gain nothing by by leaving her behind. But certainly we need an investment in prevention. There's not a universal expectation that all young people in Massachusetts public schools will get even very basic comprehensive sex ed. It's an it's really and why not at this point I mean hello it's everywhere now. You know some of it is probably related to cost. Some of it is

probably related to time. You know what are the other pressures but none of those are reason enough not to provide this kind of very critical information. And a lot of people say that's the parent's job and that's really where that should happen. Parents overwhelmingly say we want schools help in providing this information to our young people. So given sort of parents stance on this they want support yes they're going to be the ones there with the values and what are our expectations as a family. But having the school support for some of the basic information about the importance of delaying sexual activity and the importance of preventing pregnancy and SCD if you do choose sexual activity parents really are looking for schools to do that. So that's a huge important piece and we're not achieving it universally in Massachusetts right now. Do you have a success story of you know this. Obviously this is a new study and this is what you'd like to have happen but you have other examples of those kids who have been telling you

my daughter my son that was a motivation for me. Absolutely. And in fact in addition to sort of the national data that was coming through that motivated us to do this study part of the motivation was how many stories we had heard about young people who. Frankly turned their lives around when they recognized their new responsibility. And we're not talking I mean for some young people that's just a theory. You know I want to turn my life around I know I have to if the supports aren't there then then it just becomes a window that closes a door that closes but for the young people who are able to access support some of it is family support. But some of it is school based and some of it is attitude change for those young people who find that space for themselves and get that support. We had three young women on the panel at the State House briefing today all of whom were able to either get a GED or a high school diploma. And two of whom have gone on to

get a bachelor's degree and are now applying to master's program. Oh well I mean that that could be. I'm not saying every teen parent is going to be able to meet that mark but their capabilities are far beyond what we give them credit for in that moment when we as adults might be looking at a pregnant teenager and writing her off. And we as I said there's a child in the picture now and we don't gain anything by doing that. We're losing out on her potential to really make a contribution. Twenty five percent. That's a huge number of kids dropping out because of this. What's it look like five years from now if some of what you've suggested is not implemented. Well so the drop out and Recovery Commission in Massachusetts set a goal of reducing dropout by 50 percent over the next five years which we are thrilled that they set a concrete goal. We think there's no way to reach that goal if we don't prevent more teen pregnancy. And if we don't keep more pregnant and parenting teens in high school. So if we don't start pushing on what are the changes that need to be made.

We're going to I could be back here in five years and we're still talking about these numbers. All right well that's for you for thought. I'm Kelli Crossley and we've been talking about teen parents and dropout rates in schools with Patricia Quinn executive director of the Massachusetts alliance on teen pregnancy. Patricia Quinn thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for the opportunity. Coming up a look at what it means in 21st century politics to go independent. Stay with us. Support for WGBH comes from you. And from New England nurseries. A family

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Because your weekends are less business and more pleasure than you eighty nine point seven has a lineup of shows that feed the other side of your brain and the next morning when I would walk to the Subway sandwich I love knowing that everybody else on the street was dragging themselves to their jobs and I was done for the day. This is Bob Edwards weekend along with a Celtic soldier now starting at three and leading you right up to A Prairie Home Companion at six. It's the new eighty nine point seven. WGBH. I am Rhonda gazer the voice of the Boston Symphony Orchestra and I want to invite you to join me in the WGBH running towards a fabulous trip to the Berkshires this July 4 full days of music theatre and art. Learn more at WGBH daughterboard slash learning tours. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. Anyone paying attention to politics these days might get the sense that running as an Independent is a sure way

to win from the anti-government sentiment sweeping the country to the rise of Scott Brown. For a look at how going independent resonates with voters and for a reminder of what a spirited three party system once look like we are joined by Aaron O'Brien an assistant professor of political science at UMass Boston and Ted Widmer director of the John Carter Brown Library at Brown University. Welcome to you both. Thank you thank you. Ted I'm going to start with you and I. I feel like every time I turn around there's somebody going independent now but this is not so unusual this we have a history in this country of being having an independent streak so to speak. Absolutely I mean it's if you look around the world it's pretty unusual to have two equally matched parties that are always the same strength and always supporting each other. In fact most of the world's current. We have many different parties and splinter groups and we're seeing something interesting in England at the moment of the founding of our system. Parties were looked down upon. James Madison wrote what was probably the most famous Federalist

Paper arguing against what he called faction the spirit faction. So when the two party system evolved it was a good thing it worked for us. But alternatives are always out there and are not necessarily the end of our system as we know it. Why so much emphasis on going independent today or is that just anecdotal I'm getting the sense and I was coming from nowhere. I just think there's an unbelievable amount of hostility towards the two established parties and neither is very popular and I saw Newspoll last night on PBS to the bones in the 30s in popularity ratings and. The Tea Party is not far behind everywhere but without much effort people can get up to the same level of approval of the national parties and beyond it if they have interesting things to say. Aaron O'BRIEN What do you think. You know I'd have to say it's intriguing on many levels but people hate the parties but the parties still win. And so I think this rise of independents or independents either way is sort of

anomalistic it sticks out because it's not real in the sense that our parties in in Congress are infinitely more polarized than they were in the 1970s nobody runs as an independent by and large so when we have these few figures that do they really stand out because the party since the mid 70s have really polarized the boat together on everything and people hate it and people are more apt to call themselves independents. But what that does it leaves about a third of the electorate who are vehement Republicans and a third of the electorate who are vehement Democrats. And they control the primaries and then they control the candidates we vote on who then vote on the far extremities and we hate it but because they control the primary it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle so a Lieberman or a brown sticks out because they're not normal and they used to be. So they're nominees. Now right here in Massachusetts we have an interesting situation with Tim Cahill where he seemed to be gaining and the Republicans are just really beating him down now is this. This is a perfect example

what you're saying is a perfect example. You know he went independent because he realized he couldn't win. Right. Can't win with the Democrats. Like all right there seems to be as Ted was alluding to this mood and this mood I'm going to cap capitalize on it. Well lo and behold he doesn't have the party backing and without that machinery without that money that many mass public's hate but that machinery matters anybody who's watched any television as of late has seen these attack ads. And I think their attack ads I don't think they're negative I think they're attack ads. And if you look at the bottom. They're not funded by Baker. They're not funded by Deval Patrick they're funded by the GOP Republican group I forget PAC. And so these are not spending a dime and the parties are really attacking Cahill and we've seen his numbers drop. I'm sure everyone here saw the right the figures that were just released he's now down to 14 and I think the roller coaster is headed now to have a question for you that might seem

a little simplistic. Our third parties and independents the same thing. I mean you know I don't know how to read this. Good question I've never been a party movement can be vast it can spread out over the entire country or can be a little regional party we can be something a personality cult around one person. I think there are pretty interesting variations and sometimes they follow great moral principles. The root Republican Party rose up over over slavery. That's the reason it came into existence was to articulate anti-slavery feeling in the 1850s. But often it's just one person's identity project for lack of a better word I mean I don't think Ross Perot really led a meaningful third party. And what we're seeing now more and more is people who can't quite get the Democratic or Republican nomination who just declare they're independent because it's the easiest way to win and it's you know it's maybe it works for them but it's not quite as

interesting as it used to be. So are you saying that third parties used to be about principle and now it's just strategy strategy. I think so yeah. I mean there are exceptions but I think that that is the trend. So does that mean that there I say it maverick is really something that attracts people now because from my A-game anecdotal look it looks like people are if you say you're independent even if you're not a part of the vehement groups as you've described Aaron you know lots of folks are pretty interested in that Scott Brown road all the way to victory on this. He sure did. But is he normal. No I mean it took a perfect storm to get him. You know it was it was a single race on the ticket. It was it cold. Right. She did run Coakley did run a poor campaign. And the national mood this is in the middle of health care and he was sort of stealth right and he snuck up. And so you're right it definitely resonated but it took a perfect storm so the idea that he's so celebrated and those sort of things

it is because he's such an anomaly. And you would use the term Maverick even now John McCain is like no I don't want to use that term anymore. And that's key because he has to win his primary. Yeah. That's why. And that as I said. Those primary voters are much farther right than the general election because independents are involved there. So because this happens on the left and the right this example is just from the right. John McCain has to go through that primary and that direct primary determines who we get to vote on. Don't be a maverick to them because then you've sold out the party. OK now let me just push back to both of you because I want on line. You know why not look around and I found this site called Polly t p o l o dash T E A has nothing to do with the Tea Party as I understand it. And this guy needs to be updated but he just listed all the candidates calling themselves independent across the country from state to state. I thought that was. I didn't know these many people calling themselves independent. Ted

existed. I mean I think that's a lot more than people know about. Everyone is an outsider I think all 100 US Senators are serving as outsiders. Gail Collins has a very funny column this morning about Arlen Specter and how you know difficult to be more of an insider than Arlen Specter but he's now an outsider and the word independent is very attractive but when it becomes an official party designation then. But it's interesting I mean we run the risk of some chaos if everyone becomes an independent the the system does what about young people who say they will not identify with the party. They are independent they don't have a party affiliation and they're proud of it. Well it sounds great at the beginning but they will end up frustrated because Karen's right the parties control the nominating process in the primaries and they still are important in spite of their own power popularity and they channel a lot of money although that can be interesting when you get someone like a Bloomberg or Ross Perot they they have the financial ability to be an independent but not everyone does.

Ralph Nader was an independent but he didn't he never raised a huge amount of money in 2000. All right Aaron. I could chime in on that as well. Of course I'll give a political science shout out. But we do look at this a lot in political science and this guy Wattenberg has written on this. There are you're right a ton of independents that run. But then if you also I don't know I don't know this particular Web site if you look at their vote totals while their little 2 percent 3 percent 4 percent so there are they do run but they don't matter. And that sounds terrible I would say to my students they don't get invited to the debates. OK but what about the influence of the Tea Party to it. Well that remains to be seen. It feels kind of like a you know a group expression of vast frustration but it's having I don't think people are tied to waiting a very clear program. Well one of them or throw the bums out the incumbents. Well we hear that every generation or so I mean there was a lot of that same energy

with the Contract with America in 1994 dupion which harnessed it very well but within the Republican Party. But then when you try to move forward or even if you if you win that you then have to actually take positions and govern and you run the risk of alienating people who are sort of inherently anti-government. So you're back right back where you started as a writer. OK Ted Woodman I know you've got to run. Thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure. What more is the director of the John Carter Brown Library at Brown University. But we're continuing to talk to Aaron O'Brien from UMass. So copycats. You're saying a lot of these people really are just trying to strategize or to get in to present totals. They're not maybe then I have really independent under the skin and I think Ted alluded to it's tough to say why they're running but there is this long tradition and I'm just speaking here primarily on the Senate level and congressional level. There is this long tradition of independent candidates that don't matter. And I'm not

saying their positions don't matter but they don't they be influenced in flanking and occasionally OK. But I mean the Ross Perot What was that 92. Yeah but you. Hugely influential right. But it's been you know 18 years. And so you know Lieberman if you look at Lieberman or Sanders like they're the actual independents they vote over 90 percent of the time with the Democratic Party. And so. Well let me go to Liberman is a would not he have been threatened because he's trying to come back into that caucus so he had to give up something I would imagine. Well he actually didn't have to give up that much because you know filibuster proof per priest Scott Brown and that sort of thing so a lot of the Democrats were very angry at him but he is a very unique case where I talked about how the Democrats those people identify strongly as the Democrats push hard. Same for Republicans and now the independents are out. Right. And so Lieberman could appeal to the more left base in Connecticut so he lost. Right he lost in the primary and then he ran as

an independent and all those independents and people as you said the leaners that are especially young people who call themselves independents but they typically lean to one party got him back in. And now he's one of those rare individuals who's not beholden to that direct primary. And even without being beholden to that. Though there are some examples of him having some independence he votes with the party over 90 percent of the time. And I don't think that's what most people have in mind when they elect an independent. OK well what about the fact that in Massachusetts most people identify themselves as independent voters. I mean they no longer are signed up. That's I'm not even talking about young people. Just it's a fascinating phenomenon and it's a continuation of a larger trend since the mid 70s the decline of party in the electorate. And that's true. If you ask people Are you a Democrat Republican or Independent. A lot as you alluded to especially even more so in Massachusetts. Well again if I as an independent. But then if you do a follow up with them do you lean towards the Democrats or do you lean towards the

Republicans. The vast majority will say they lean one way. But yeah but some people say I lean one way depending on the issue and I might lean another way depending again on the issue. So I'm actually a leaner in both directions. Right now they will say that but if you ask them Do you lean towards a particular party. They will say one of the parties and also offer them to lean towards the Republicans to lean towards the Democrats. Are you an independent all the time. So they will lean towards a particular party but yeah they'll do some split ticket voting now and again. I mean you saw that with Scott Brown. But you know you asked about the Tea Party and things like that I mean economic dislocation is real right now. And there's a lot of anger as Ted alluded to towards government lack of trust in government both these parties are terrible. And so if that's what's going on. It's easy it's hard to register that somewhere. A lot of people feel disconnected from government. I'll register that by saying I'm in an independent. OK register that by saying so I take my stand I'm the maverick yes

I'm not beholden to the either of these parties because they haven't been beholden to me. And so I think that's I think the tea party captures a lot of that a lot of individuals when they look at the whole of the tea party plank they're like oh I don't know about that part of that part. And others really strongly here but to say that there's a unified voice in the Tea Party just doesn't make sense or that there was a unified reason why people voted for Scott Brown doesn't make sense. OK. I got a feeling we're going to revisit this actually even though you have the data and you know you're talking about we've been talking you know not less interesting it's not you Larry it's fascinating to be around. So we've been talking politics with Aaron O'Brien. She's an assistant professor of political science at UMass Boston. Professor Bryant thank you so much for joining us as leisure to be here. Up next a writer and director Lois roach on her latest work. Stay tune to eighty nine point seven. The boy.

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Crossley Show. Eighty nine point seven WGBH. I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show theater maven Lois Roach is here with me. She's a renowned director and playwright and her latest work a play set in slavery era America is titled The Emancipation of Mandy and Ms. Elie it's presented by company one theater company at the Boston Center for the arts theater Plaza. It's directed by Victoria Marsh Lois Roche. Welcome. Thank you good to be here. OK so first tell us about the emancipation of Mandy and Miss Ellie what's the gist of it and not just like give everything away but yeah the gist of it is that it is the story of two women one purchased for another. OK. Which one was purchased. So man it was purchased for Miss Ellie and they are roughly when we meet them they're not that far apart in age

and Miss Ellie was basically betrothed to her husband who is Mandy's owner. And so we see her come to this household in a manner that is supposed to bring her Presti presence and then we see how Mandy is brought into the same household in Mandy and her mother are brought to the household to help care for Miss Ellie. Now why slavery era. I mean there's so much to write about in the context of the black experience quote unquote. And just wondering why you went there. I always say I am booked by a higher power. I was invited roughly 10 years ago for a competition. The University of Louisville in Kentucky was doing a competition and it was to invite people to submit plays around the Emancipation Proclamation. One of the key professors at

the university was was and still is a colleague and friend of mine and she said submit something and I said like I have a play just sitting around about the Emancipation Proclamation. So she said well go write one. So I said oh OK I can do that. So I sat down and wrote a one act play and it was submitted and then it was selected. And she I didn't go see the performance but it was a reading. So it wasn't a full production. But she said to me the audience had a very interesting reaction you need to do something with this. I was you mean by that that she meant that folks were. Folks were excited. They were frustrated they were angry there were a whole lot of emotions surrounding it. In the words at that time and she said you know what you just it's just something you kind of feel that you need to go and

expand it and see what else you can do with it. So in the time from that point to now the 10 years I know you've been shaping it and doing other things with it. How did you respond to the response. I mean you know when people say oh it took you 10 years like I also teach so my students are like 10 years because every day should have taken 10 minutes. But I think people need to understand I didn't work on it every day for 10 years. But in doing a production you know so much has to line up the right way. First is this thing called money. Yes well it is not cheap to put this stuff on right. And then there is this amazing thing called collaboration. And it just so happened that this is the moment and I point to that it is the moment where all the pieces fell into place as I expanded it. I knew I wanted to add dance and percussion. I knew I mean it is in our bodies it's in the way we walk it's in the way we talk it's the rhythms that we create. It's how we speak and that does not

necessarily mean that we are a living musical. Every moment. But there are certain rhythms and patterns and sounds that I wanted to introduce into the piece and it fell into place so to be able to work with somebody like Alvin Terry who brings his sense of the percussion and to be able to say to him chains make sounds. What kind of sounds do we want to make with these chains. How do we present these chains which are so symbolic in so many ways so differently. And then of course I have must speak on Missy Banga who is the court tonight from origination and group a dance troupe and yes and she. Worked with us when I say us I mean myself and our director Victoria Marsh. She worked with us in that particular workshop presentation of it and she got what I wanted. I wanted there to be moments where it felt explosive and where the dance also symbolized some of the

other action that was happening suggested by the words. So it's like all these pieces fell into place. Company one was interested in it and they were able to include it as part of their season. We worked with be you playwrights theatre Snodgrass was my dramaturg bless her because she kept me on the straight and narrow and she knew that I was doing something different. But she also knew that it made sense. And that's the thing about it is that as I looked at it last night it is not quite it has these musical elements and it has dance elements but people should know it's not a musical No. The dance the dancers is quite stylized it's used as a transition almost from sometimes scenes sometimes. Moments within the scenes and as you say underscoring some of the sentiments expressed by the characters and dialogue. Wright was a really interesting they're very actually quite good and of course the music is quite good too. Well and I think the piece that I was excited about is

that dance is another form of language. So while I may have written these words in this text in like Victoria I always say is it in the beginning there was the word. And but what the dance does is create its own language to supplement the story. I happen to believe that audiences are very very smart. And I happen to believe that if you leave enough of those open spaces they can see where you're trying to go with both the story and the emotion that's being presented. Well some people might say it's quite 21st century and it's approach because it's multimedia if you will. So so you've got a lot of things going on at once using different kinds of platforms to advance your story. Right. So that gives you that right now. Some people may not know you Lois Roach but you've been around town involved in theater for some time usually as a director.

Yeah. So to have your words your play and have it directed by someone else. How was that experience. The first word I use is trust. Victoria has worked with me. She's been my producer. She's been in this instance she's been she is the director for the piece. And I think the big word that I use is trust. I was able to just say Here take it. You know she's also we're going to relieve a little bit to step back outside of this. Yeah OK. It is it is I didn't have to go to tech rehearsal. I mean I'm more emotional. But yeah it was because I think being a director and do you see the work fresh. Yeah. And being a director and working with living playwrights I understand the roles. And I have been very blessed as a director to work with some amazing playwrights who are still alive and who I can call them and say. We change

this or look at this and again you have to create that trust. And so now to be on the other side I know what my role was and I knew when it was time to speak up and to be invited to speak up and I know when it was time to sit home and that was OK because if you're able to do that it's you know you let go. And in the letting go of it stuff happens. OK. Yeah. Now what do you say to people who say OK I generally like Lois Rogers work. I'm interested in theater but I just can't do slavery again. How do you respond to that. It's funny. Alvin Terry who is our music director composer percussionist. When we first approached him with the piece and he read it he looked at me and he said Do slavery.

And he said been around long enough. Don't do it. Don't like the story. I don't want to deal with it. And he said but I will do this. And when I asked him why he said because you have made these people real. So yes there are elements in it that speak to some of the historical things that are happening around that time. But the people are real. There is a moment in the piece where Cook Mary who is essentially she is Mandy's mother but to some degree she becomes this Sally's mother too by virtue of there are only three of them three women in the house. There is this moment where she has a monologue. And to see grown men. Gasp to see grown men feel that and feel that in their stomachs in their hearts that says something to me and I think it's a

story about real people. And I know when I was in school I got given the facts. This is what happened this is would I win. You know here's the Middle Passage and this is but I didn't get to you the story of people until I started working on this. And there are some amazing people and we had a group of young students come and they said you know what. Now I get what I'm supposed to be doing. Because they understood that they stand on the shoulders of someone who went through a whole heck of a lot before they did. So yes while life may be challenging and violent now it was also challenging and violent then and there are a group of people and individuals in spirits who. Who stood up on whose shoulders we stand on. Did I answer your question. Ok now I'm interested because you're a bust on Ian and the play itself is

set in the south and. And we know that the context is Emancipation Proclamation that time and what it meant to these characters and by the way we're speaking with Lois Roche who is the playwright for a play called The Emancipation of Mandy and Miss Ellie which is produced by a company one. So I'm surprised that you didn't try to situate the story north because a lot of people don't know there was slavery. Norton and you could have easily done that and shown an interesting aspect of the impact of emancipation proclamation from that perspective. I cheated in that I have family who are from the county that I wrote about. OK. And I mean yeah I mean the story is has nothing to do with my family but there was something about the place. And there was something about the land when I went down there and understanding the land and it just felt right when I started writing.

When I write I think about why I'm writing a certain thing. You know to the creative Yeah in the moment that I'm writing I mean ultimately I got to go back and edit it and make it right make it better. But it's set in a county that belongs to family. OK yeah. Now you mentioned the wanting to get to the people beyond the facts but one of the one of the issues that was a one of the problems I'm not going to put a value on it. One of the issues is writing any kind of historical fiction is that you've got to put some facts in because you've got to assume that maybe even three quarters of your audience don't know any of the facts. So there isn't much of that that you had to weave into the into the play in order for anybody to get what the point was. Right right. And the goal was to weave it in in a manner that it didn't take over the story I didn't want it to become clunky. I hope it's not clunky in saying OK

this is this is these are the pieces I mean you have a scene in there that speaks to John Brown and how John Brown was key for a lot of folks the abolition of the Abolition Isn't that what the white abolitionists is Jack said. Yeah and it's funny because Michel he has a line in she says that abolitionists like oh that dirty dog you know but it the challenge was to get in and create some human presence what Hope did his did his capture or his Even his and his struggle in his fight in the beginning bring to other people. And so I think there are moments where you see that. As I recall there's only one time where a date is mentioned and I think Mandy mentions it as a way of anchoring later on the play. Yeah but other than that there are events tied together but no date. Yeah I think there are maybe twice. I mentioned the dates. I don't know that a lot of folks know that it took two years for everybody to realize they were free.

Yeah exactly. You know we didn't have Twitter and tweet and all that back then. You know so it took a car hit you know so it took a minute and command it. Yeah. Now let's talk about the what seems to me from the outside to be a rebirth a resurgence of theater and Boston company one seems to be part of that. Yeah it's just exciting for you who've been in the trenches for a long time in the trenches of a very long time and I'm not going to say numbers in years but a very long time in I think. If you go to the Boston Center for the Arts on most theater most theaters are dark Monday Tuesday nights so if you go there Wednesday through Sunday and you just see this explosion of this one neighborhood where there's theater there's dance there's music the beehive is there with jazz downstairs. It's like wow and I still have around the corner from there. And don't think I haven't thought wow why didn't I buy something back then. And then I realized I don't have any money. I think when I look at the neighborhood I used to live in and see the stuff

that's happening now I'm like wow it's amazing how much has changed. And then you look at what's also represented outside with the the lyric stage company the new rep the Huntington theater and of course the American rap I mean you've got national stuff happening in town. And I don't think folks realize that. I think sometimes. We don't necessarily value that which is in our own backyard. What does that mean for you emotionally as a playwright who's been in the trenches to see this happening finally to see the changes you just. I think it means there's always hope. You know I think it means that you just keep keep doing the work. I remember somebody told me a long time ago when I was fussing about something and they were like Loz just do the work. You know if you just do it one step at a time that's it you know and then whatever else is supposed to happen will happen. Now if you had told me that 10 years after I wrote the first sentence of this piece then something would happen I would sound if I feel like wait.

But it is the way the journey went. And I have to say that. It's been a fun journey. I love actors and some of the moments some of the best moments have been sitting around a table with food because everybody knows I love food. Sitting around the table with some food working the words Well congratulations to you. Thank you. We've been talking with director and playwright Lois Roche her play the emancipation of Mandy and Ms Elie is presented by the Theatre Company company 1 and it's directed by Victoria Marsh. You can catch it through May 22nd at the Boston Center for the Arts Theatre Plaza. And that's that vibrant center happening that she's just described. For more information please visit company 1 dot org. Lois Roche thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. This is the Calla Crossley Show today's program was engineered by Alan Mathis and produced by Chelsea murders our production assistant is Anna white knuckle be we our production of WGBH radio. See you

tomorrow.