Say Brother; Malcolm X; 317

What political Influence do you feel Malcolm X had on the black struggle in this country? I think Malcolm X reached a state of dimensions that was missed by others and is still missed by others and the important thing is that Malcolm X found a kind of language that the ordinary work-a-day black man can understand and that he had heard partly from other people, but he didn't listen to those other people because they were not taught in a language that attracted him, I think I think that his great political influence is that he took took the politics of struggles down to the area where the struggle was most needed. Theoretically, of course what influence do you think Malcolm would have if he were alive today? I think Malcolm would have influence if he was alive now and he still

bend the struggle even further among ordinary blacks. And I think Malcolm X would be able to deal with some of the political contradictions in black lives than others have done so far and I think he would see the international dimensions of political struggle much better than I think our present politicians are seeing it. What kind of contradictions exist in black life? Of the contradiction of thinking with your oppressed Will participate in your liberation and that your oppressor will dismantle his big international economic operators in order to put up the operators with your labor and with your

money to erect the structure of capitalism the whole economic system free of charge. He has erected a whole world wide economic system but to be naive enough to think that he's going to give you anything other than crumbs of appeasement from these eborators or that he's going to dismantle beyond the contradiction, is a form of insanity. How did Malcolm develop an international perspective on our struggle? That was in his last trip to Africa and his contact with African nations who had promised him that they would take the case of the American black to the United Nations as a Human Rights subject. As they are authorized to do under the United Nations charter and not as a civil rights case.

He had attempted to internationalize the black struggle and to take it beyond this domestic base arena. Now he barely got this off of the ground. That and his attention to the United Nations that was in draft form when he died, a petition for black people to have representation at the United Nations, as an entire nation a colonized nation within the United States. That took a great deal and nerve. And this may be the cause of his death This was repeating itself. Repeating itself. Every black leader, who shows black people the true nature of power and how to deal with it is either assassinated or

,driven into exile ,or driven to suicide and the pattern has not varied. From the mysterious disappearance of David to his famous appeal and you can look at this pattern and you'll see its consistency. W.E.B DeBois died in exile. Monroe Charter the same. The famous Boston Brahman allegedly fell in his house and he had been walking on that roof for a generation; it was his family home. You're telling me a man couldn't balance himself? He wouldn't have fallen from that. He wasn't a heavily drinking man, so he surely wasn't up there drunk So I think of course we know about Martin Luther King. So long as he was preaching peace

and when he began to talk about poor people's marches and the unification of the black poor and the white poor, he had projected himself into the cause currents of power and conflict and the invisible power that decided that he had to go and you can see this pattern repeating itself over and over again. Now the most tragic display of this pattern is the ship that never gets into the +small towns and blacks protesting it and sometimes they're killed at the hands of blacks, But it doesn't matter who's hands killed them but, who ordered the killing is what is really important. It really doesn't matter whether the jews killed christ, the main thing is that Rome, Roman colonialism dominated the area and that the Roman colonialist didn't want him

killed, they could have stopped it by the wave of a hand. So the Romans are more guilty if anybody is guilty at all. So see I'm saying that it doesn't matter if black hands killed him, they obviously did but black hands blacks minds' were order the murder of Malcolm X. Now not to stray to far from our subject, what we're trying to deal with is the pattern of murder of black leadership by the establishment that has been more than consistent for well over a hundred years and will remain so until there's enough political influence and power in the black community to tell that this man, my spokesman will not be sacrificed. What kind of leadership can we expect to see in the future? We expect to see several types of leadership

many organizations have fallen apart on the basis of poor administration. I think what we need are less charismatic leaders leaders and more astute administrators who can hold the pieces together keep the money from being dissipated and keep the programs and keep the promise to the people. I think the next kind of leader might be type who is well ego-satisfied to the point point of not needing the public bow and things together and who can be relatively obscure. That's the kind we need and I think thats the kind we're gonna get in some cases, We still going to get a share of Daddy-o hustlers, I think the people are more and more honed to them because of the absolute

poverty programs and they're still running to some extent in model model sit-ins. I think blacks are beginning to make talking very articulate con-man I think he's going to see him coming and and going to recognize more sincerity in people. I think the games with black people over leadership may be over, and I think its over because we've come to the point of saying its over. Where are blacks headed politically? I think black people are at the cross-roads politically, educationally and socially and everything else. I think we are re-grouping and looking for whole new directions. Now I think that we're at a period when the charismatic leader is over. Forward we're looking nationally and internationally and I think we

are beginning to catch on to the kind of nationally and internationally. I think we're looking toward Africa more than we ever looked before and realizing that there's a job of corporation and I think we're losing our fascination because we're realizing that the dream wasn't a dream for us and the promise wasn't made to us. I think that we will reconsider Pan-Africanism in a different kind of way other than the phraseology and the ceremony. We'll understand the possibility of black people in this country going and helping in hospitals and building roads and some kind of a corporation. Now I think that we're gonna take this concept beyond pan-africanism into a concept of African world for the good of the possibilities

and I think that of the people whose will not be the only but he's surely going to be one that's going to be hard and respectively considered. Did Malcolm X have influence on your own political ideology and development? Well I think like any black person my age you know I think that Malcolm X did in fact have an influence but I think honestly I would have to admit he probably has had more influence on me since his death than when he was alive because when he was alive that was another you know period at least that I was going through and I really saw a lot of the views now that I think about it in all honesty a lot of the views that Malcolm was putting forth has been things that I really couldn't get down with. And I was at that point more in tune with what King and some other people were talking about and it was only after I saw Malcolm in a debate

with Louis Lomax in Cleveland Ohio, that I really began to understand what he was saying and it was just shortly there after that he was murdered so that I would say definitely he's had an influence on me as a person and as a black man and the kinds of things you know know he had to say. Where's your head now politically? I have much more concern, or at least I think a greater understanding about the question of monopoly capitalism and imperialism and the part that that plays in overall oppression of black people which means all three years ago I might have come at the thing from strictly a race question and not dealing with the question of capitalism. That as I have traveled you know throughout Africa and had the opportunity to sit with the sacred Trea and to meet Ameena Cacabrahl and spin a great deal of time last summer with Louis Cabrall and talk to the people from Limo to talk to brothers and sisters from the new Jewel movement for example in Grenada that are now you know involved in the struggle there. That my

understanding I think of what the nature of the oppression of black people in this country and throughout the world is a little bit different than what it was in say three years ago and that you know my concern now is we're trying to develop strong organizations in the black community that are in fact rooted in the black working class because I think that when you begin to look at it the struggle against racism has to be also a struggle to eliminate capitalism because it is in fact capitalism that provides a material base for the existence of racism. And it would not in fact prepare the struggle against capitalism or imperialism as its highest extension. Then we're going to have a situation where like for example you have a lot of neo-colonialist puppets. So even though the government is black the reality of the lives of the masses of workers and peasants have been changed so that I see much more now the importance of struggle for fundamental change in the political economic system as opposed to just simply change in the relationship between

white people and black people." "What is the significance of African Liberation Day and the African Liberation Day Support Committee? Well I think the significance of ALD is the first time it occurred in 72 was that was really the first time to my knowledge for some time I guess probably since Garvey that people had actually gotten out on the streets to say that they support it. You know, what was happening in Africa and you know dealt with it in you know in that fashion. But I think that the significance of the committee, beyond the demonstration, is that people have begun to see that it's not only a question of demonstrating once a year but it is a question of trying to build the type of committee that can support the struggles of black people in this country as well as give concrete assistance to liberation movements because in our discussions with liberation movements the thing that they kept driving home to us was that the most important way that that Afro-Americans can aid in the struggle of the liberation movements is to in fact

increase the struggle of black people inside this country against racism and imperialism. And we sit in the heart of monopoly capitalism in the world. And that if we can begin to struggle here an effective revolution, a struggle here, that by definition that struggle will aid their struggle. So I think that the support committee has been significant in Helping a number of us grow. You know to see that reality. I think the fact that brothers and sisters have continued to work day to day demonstrations against gulf oil or demonstrations against banks or getting petitions signed to repeal the Byrd amendment, getting petitions signed to demand that the United States recognize Guinea-Bissau. Plus last year we raised forty-two-thousand dollars for liberation movements, had demonstrations in 28 cities. I think that all of that has led to a growth in the awareness of the role that Africa plays in the imperialist structure in the world, and then more importantly what it is that we need to do, you know, inside this country.

[Host] "Do you think black people are moving toward an acceptance of Malcolm's ideology and ideas?" "Well see, I think there are a couple things about Malcolm that the people have to deal with: Number one, I think you have to consider Malcolm, you know, in his historical context. Number two, I think you can't talk about Malcolm without also talking about, you know, Elijah Muhammad, in terms of the effect that the teacher had on the student type of situation, so that in terms of a general acceptance of Malcolm's ideas, I would there are more people who generally accept his ideas. The problem is though that people will tend to accept his ideas and not apply them to the particular historical circumstance that they live in. Because see I think that if you read over Malcolm's speeches and Malcolm's statements, that I would not be so sure that Malcolm would put forth the same particular ideas today that he did then, and that I think people do Malcolm a disservice not to try and

apply or reconsider the points that Malcolm made within the context of the historical period we live in, which is something I think that we have to struggle more to do." [Host] "Did Malcolm X have any influence on your political ideology and activity.?" "Yes. Quite a bit. In fact the Black Panther Party, Malcolm X is so the father of it, the fact that Malcolm X had been murdered probably drove Huey and I to a point to say to say that we would have to create an organization reflective of what he was talking about. The fact that Malcolm said by legal constitutional right, the second amendment, every black man and woman, black person in this country had a right to have a shotgun in their home to defend themselves from unjust attacks by racism. Which is one point that influences very much -- what influences even more, was Malcolm's emphasis that we must have a

political organization that dealt most immediately with the housing and the clothing, shoes, and food for the people. That while we deal with this, ultimately the revolutionary process will go on and it will probably still be somewhat of a violent revolution, as you know even in this period. Although there's numerous violence still being committed against black people, there's a lot of organizing to do there's a broader liberation framework to be built. And this is one of the most -- this still goes on, this influence that Malcolm gave us, especially in the area of the political arena, I'm talking about the political party and that's why, that's essentially part of the basis by which we organize what we call a political party, that would take a concrete stand, not only as men, as human beings, as strong women who are in the organizations, what have you, but also with concrete programs that really serve the basic interests of its desires and the needs of the people as also a means to help organize them more.

Do you think black people are moving toward an acceptance of Malcolm X's ideology and ideas? Oh definitely I do, for the last seven years I think we can see a lot of this you know. I think Malcolm's ideas are profound and what he understood, and what he tried to contribute to the liberation of black people. You know, the character of the movements and the movements and especially black liberation struggle from the time when Malcolm and Martin Luther King first came on the set in the 50s and varying characters, demonstrations etc. and then in August of 1965 the black rebellion started in Watts. From there we started looking around we said "what was the next character?" the character took on somewhat the

battles. The organization, it wasn't only only our organization got caught in battles with the police who were attacking, you know, that took some part of the character while the anti-war movement was floating in between, etcetera okay? The Black Student Union merged in you know, right around the-- slightly before the Black Panther Party started, which Huey and I happen to be a part of, which became characteristics of campuses. So you start looking at all these different variable aspects of the movement and trying to pinpoint the character developments, different types of characters of the movement-- the liberation struggle develops. Now a lot of people say "what's happened to the movement, what's happened to the movement? What's happened to the black liberation struggle?" What we have to do now is pinpoint some 79 candidates, black candidates ran for political offices throughout the South in the last year or so, year, year and a half. Nearly 50 of them won those offices. That's a significant change maybe say OK, but that's characteristic of the black liberation, of the desire for black liberation. Now some of those candidates, I believe there's a good handful of them, just

corrupt but what I value in that is the masses of the black people, of the voting black vote in voting in opposition to the races. That's consciousness. I say yes, that they did accept a lot of Malcolm's ideas, Malcolm say the ballot or the bullet, did he not? You can see where we are, you know. His ideas acceptable. Look at the people that use the ballot, many of the mass of people respected the way we split up and defended ourselves with the bullet in one stage of the struggle, now it has a different character. What kind of changes has the party gone through since 1968? Those programs did directly aid in the ability of a political vehicle such as the party to be able to run an election and open as we did. I would like to answer the question of what people think or misunderstand that why did Bobby Seale run for political office, run for mayor? Malcolm X said "by any means necessary" you know.

And Malcolm X did point out to us, you know, not only do we defend ourselves like human beings, like men and women. But that defense he was talking about, that Huey Newton has projected, and as Malcolm has stated himself, having met him and that not having met him myself, personally haven't seen him speak, was that the violence is not only manifested only in the bully club, it is violent when we have hungry children, it is violent when rats roaches, etc. which many black organizations and groups of people understand, picked up and begin to see. We have to defend ourselves against that but it takes organization. Organizing people in opposition to the power structure. So anytime, and one of the means necessary to help build that broad liberation framework becomes dealing with political office but the point is, do we have Malcolm Xs in the country. I mean Malcolm X's people, brothers, sisters, you know. Harriet Tubmans and others who have internalized heart, mind, and soul, the philosophy of people's struggle, especially as

it may be related to the black community. That is essential to how we've developed and we've internalized that even more so in terms of the changes that we went through the may years via the political oppression, the jailings, the many brothers and sisters that have been killed, the more black people that get killed in the community Black Panther party pushes us forward. You know I'm sure it did the same thing to Malcolm and many other brothers and sisters. Martin Luther King and the others. [Host] What kind of program can you project for the party over the next couple years? We're going to try to influence and get people to take time to realize the necessity of registering to vote and voting in blocks in opposition to racist candidates and also a few handful of black candidates who are not sincere, who are only puppets for the power structure. And when we do get some good candidates and offices that the people don't just assume that

a black candidate is going to be able to do everything. That community has to be behind them because of some candidates who are sincere but never had the real organizational backup from the community where they can really you know move the tax monies and the funds back in the direction or in the framework of what we call liberation. We're going to be involved in that as much as possible. And the more and more we get involved in that, trying to step by step add something to this framework. It's liberation for everybody that keeps speaking up. We will also try to see to it that-- or help people to see if they can get us to see more and better way to work together, how to transform, as I mentioned earlier, a certain institutionalized function such as the offices of the vice president and the president. I mean from the time that that thing was set up, that system was set up in this country, it was set up so that no one could become a king.

But look at Richard Nixon with his executive privilege as it was George the Third, King George the Third with his special veto. Its the same thing as the special veto saying any disguising with executive privilege. I mean this is whats happening. I mean impounding funds etc. You know I mean the whole criss-cross across the board cut back of services in this country for the people in domestic level and black people suffer the blunt end of that, of everything that Nixon does, even though you might hear the truck drivers with their special strikes and other people serving black people really get the blunt end of it. So black people should be definitely involved in moving to try to help get people to organize and unify around getting that Congress who has the legal constitutional legality to alter you know that executive office of president or vice president, those two offices, and in turn replace with administrative

experts. Because all those agencies in the Executive Department are created by law by the Congress in the first place. And many of those executive administrative experts will have to be appointed to certain agencies to run them and then those laws can be better enforced you know, without having some nut like Nixon talking about impounding this and cutting back this etc. and waging unjust wars against our brothers and people around and around the world who're oppressed. So we're gonna be involved in a lot, on one level or another. At the same time when I say we want to get rid of the the thing about vice president and president, we also want encourage more people to vote for the congressmen, you know, for your local level legislative bodies and agencies because there's too many county governments and city governments and state legislative seats you know, that black people could have real good representative [cuts off]