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And now it's my pleasure to introduce Hazel Rowley. His own role as an acclaimed biographer an essayist. Her books include a biography of Christina Stead which was named a notable book by the New York Times a critically acclaimed biography of Richard Wright which was written while she was affiliated here at Harvard with the W E B Dubois Institute and tete a tete a bestselling exploration of the relationship between Simone de Beauvoir and John-Paul Sarte her articles and reviews have appeared in numerous publications including Partisan Review Mississippi quarterly The Boston Globe The Washington Post and the nation among many others and her essays have been chosen four times for the best Australian essays an anthology of her new biography Franklin and Eleanor delves into one of the most important controversial and misunderstood political marriages in American history. A recent review in Library Journal notes without resort to sensationalism the author turns a familiar story into a page turner bringing out the nuances of this marriage and their relationships with others around them without demeaning either. And James strode of The Washington Times

writes I will go so far as to say that if you are going to read only one book about this extraordinary couple this is the one. And now please join me in welcoming Hazel Rowley. I was indeed here at the turn of the century. In the late 90s and 2000 in the book was Richard Wright which was published in 2001 and I came here to speak about it. So it is a particular delight to be back at the Harvard bookstore Harvard Square has changed a lot. And this has hardly changed and I'm a great conservative not politically. But I love I love Harvard Square and what it used to be. Franklin Roosevelt was here at Harvard at the turn of the century the nineteen hundreds. He started in September 1800 studying history economics and government.

And he was very proud to be editor of The Harvard Crimson. I don't think it's I mean I think it's almost a premonition that he said The nice thing about the Harvard Crimson was that it was a chance to bring together the Harvard community. It was one of his things community which I'm going to talk about tonight. He knew Eleanor of course Eleanor was his fifth cousin once removed and during their childhood they met several times. But my book starts in the summer of 19 oh true when they accidently meet on the central train going up the Hudson and he he sees her he hadn't seen her for several years. And it's she had just been in England for three years and had been transformed from the sort of sad little orphan of the family. Both her parents died when before she was 10 to being a rather beautiful elegant 5 foot 11. But he was six foot one and she had learnt to dress well and she had changed and her beautiful

blue eyes had got a sparkle in them which they never had before. And Franklin was interested decidedly. And. He started courting her really that Christmas. And in 2003 that November November 19 0 3 story. Was he invited her up here for the Yale game the big game. He was a cheerleader for Harvard and they lost 6 to 16 to 0 2 Yeah. But the next day they went up together to Grossman. Where Franklin had gone to school and when Eleanor's younger brother was and he proposed by the river. He was sensible enough I think to know that his mother wasn't going to be happy and he dreaded telling her. In fact I think I mean Franklin had certainly been with beautiful women and more worldly women

and Eleanor was a bit of a sad case in the family. I mean there's no doubt that Sarah Roosevelt his mother was not keen. And when he broke the news to her she was shocked. So this was one of the few times that Franklin. I mean I think that he chose Eleanor with the kind of six cents sixth sense that he would often display later when he was choosing people to work with his team. Eleanor was caring. She was interested in the way she was. She cared about of the people she was selfless. She was quite thin at the time but remarkably full of energy. He knew what he wanted. His mother wasn't at all pleased. And he wrote to her and one of the interesting letters when he actually stood up to his mother he wrote to her on Harvard Crimson paper telling her this was shortly after he had told her that he had just proposed. She

said she wanted them to hide the engagement for a year. She wasn't at all pleased he was far too young and so on. And then he wrote to her for an Harvard Crimson paper telling her that he was working into the early hours of the morning on the newspaper and on various committees and then came this. Dearest Mamma I know what pain I must have caused you. And you know I wouldn't do it if if I really could have helped it to say move. That's all that could be said I knew my mind. I've known it for a long time and know that I could never think otherwise result. I'm the happiest man just now in the world. Likewise the luckiest. And for you dear mommy you know that nothing can ever change what we have always been and always will be to each other. Only now you have two children to love and to love you and Eleanor as you know will always be a daughter to you in every true way. Quite a moving letter I thought I knew quite a bit about the Roosevelts.

I think we all think we know quite a bit about the Roosevelts and I went when I first moved to New York. I went fairly quickly up to the FDR museum and I was struck with that people on the guided tour were full of questions that they didn't know the answer to and the questions were most they had a negative view of the marriage and the questions were you know it was just a facade wasn't it. And Eleanor was really a lesbian wasn't she and Franklyn did love another woman didn't he. And so on. And I must say what what struck me on that was both the beauty of the place the nature and so on and the simplicity of the houses they had both built you know a little bit away from each other later on in their marriage. I was struck too by. The question you know how was it possible for a man who came down with infantile paralysis as it was called at the age of 39 and could walk a step on his own he became a

paraplegic. This you know athletic good looking man became a paraplegic at 39. How was it possible for him to become president of the United States at the age of 50. You know we thought it wasn't possible for a black man to become president of the United States. This was a similar sort of thing. Then how was it possible for Eleanor Roosevelt such a shy in secure not terribly beautiful young woman from America's Most major Republican family Theodore Roosevelt the Republican president was president at the time. How was it possible for her to become the most outspoken controversial progressive democratic for this maybe this country has ever known. And it struck me that it must have a great deal to do with the marriage. So that by the time I drove back to Manhattan at the end of that day my next book was seated in my mind partly because they were all asking questions about the

relationship and somebody asked you know what's the best book on the topic and the guide said there is nothing recent Joseph last wrote a book called Eleanor and Franklin 40 years ago and then we all know it's the Doris Kearns Goodwin book. But that focus is on the final five years in the marriage. So mine is from the courtship to the day Franklin died in 1985 12 years 12 years in the White House the beginning of his fourth term. And. And I take it a little bit beyond that. You know Illinois is life beyond that. I was completely open to what I would find. I didn't. I was fascinated by this marriage but I was prepared to find that it wasn't very good or I was prepared to find that it was much better than people thought. I mean my idea was to just read everything to immerse myself and to read a lot between the lines because I was up against

the fact that you know these were people who knew that their letters would be perused and so on. Eleanor Roosevelt's biography was written autobiography was written when she was in the White House. I knew I had to read it intelligently between the lines. But you know I found out very quickly that it's a marriage that shrouded in mystery still and which is astounding when you think about it we're talking about the most famous presidential couple ever. I mean from the day of a wedding in MUCH 19 0 5 when the bride was given away by President Theodore Roosevelt to Franklin's death in 1945 at the beginning of his fourth term he and. You know he and Eleanor lived in the public gaze under relentless scrutiny and somehow they managed to lead quite unconventional private lives very un puritanical and keeping major details from the public. What struck me too was that the biographies of Franklin on the biographies of

Eleanor often you know four volumes long are all actually polarized. Franklin biographies can be such an honest to an AMAZING to agree painting Eleanor is just boring poor old Franklin and Eleanor biographies portray Franklin as a sort of slippery I get pissed who rather used her and and she gave up her life for him. I wanted very much to write a book. Well this is what happened out in my research I wanted to write a book about both of them balanced equally about both of them. And I also have increasingly having written the rather thick books I increasingly belong to the sort of religion straight she school of biography which is short. I want you to be able to read this in bed and hold the book in your hands and not have to then go on to Volume Two volume three. I believe you can put up a life by hinting at things using details that

you know you can have hidden depths as it were you don't have to spell out you can rely on the intelligence of your readers. So just in the short 20 minutes remaining I do want to give you some idea of why I completely disagree with nearly all the literature on the Roosevelts. It has gone down in history by the way I don't know whether you've read the new edition of The New Yorker Thanksgiving issue. I was reading it on the plane this morning and this article on Eleanor Roosevelt and the white house cooking when she was first lady. But it's typical. She obviously hasn't read my book yet and it was the typical sort of patronizing view of the Roosevelt marriage calling it a facade even going to the point of saying that Eleanor was repelled. Franklin tried to hug her. And you know portraying that sort of cooking in the White House as a point of contention I do too. But from my in

my in my view it was quite an interesting point of contention but this blows it up as to being symbolic of the whole marriage. It is not in my view a tragic compromise patched together by two lonely people which is the view that most people have of the Roosevelt marriage. I find this an absurdly conventional and condescending interpretation of the bold and radical partnership that has made Franklin and Eleanor go down in history as one of the most inspiring couples of all times. So just very quickly now I want to say you know the turning points maybe it started out and this is one of the things that's interesting it's a completely conventional marriage between aristocrats in fact they were more under the thumb than most Victorian couples at that time because of Sarah Roosevelt that very first Christmas she bought them their first gift which was the house on East Sixty fifth Street she was going to give them a house. But I mean like all of her gifts it had a catch. This one was that she

was going to live in half of it and there were going to. Be lots of connecting doors. So I would say the first few years of the marriage weren't particularly happy. They were playing their traditional roles Franklin was a lawyer which she never much liked. And. Eleanor had four babies and five and a half years which she didn't like. And my mom was constantly busting through the connecting doors. And then it was five and a half years into their marriage that they took their first bold step away from tradition. As you know the American aristocracy is traditionally Republican voting. Theodore Roosevelt was a Republican but a progressive Republican Nothing like some of the monsters we're seeing today. I mean he believed in government regulation of big business worker's compensation women's suffrage and social insurance he had. So that so that Franklin cost his first vote for his Cousin Theodore Roosevelt without qualms he said he was more progressive than the Democrats.

But after Theodore Roosevelt left the presidency Franklin at the age of 28 stood for the state senate in upstate New York Hudson Valley traditionally completely Republican farming area. It was the area he grew up. No one thought he had a chance and he won the seat. This was 1910 before women had the vote. But Eleanor stood by her husband it was actually a bit embarrassing difficult for their own plus the aristocracy believed that Franklin was a traitor to his class. And the Roosevelt family was put in a difficult position. He actually had the night that he became president in 19. Three he invited 82 Roosevelt members back for dinner at the White House. All of them were Republicans. Anyway so he got to stay. He became a state senator he moved the family to Albany which Eleanor liked very much because it put quite a long piece of road between her and

her as they called his mother. And during I think during those three years in Albany Well three important things happened. Franklin showed himself to be. He got himself on the national map as he stood against corrupt forces of Tammany Hall the Democratic machine in New York and got on in the national Democratic news he was a he was a name. And intents chain smoking young journalist school Louis have turned up at the house to interview Franklin then went home and told his wife that he had just met the future president of the United States. He became an extremely close friend he's a very interesting personality in this book. I intensely love the guy. And then Eleanor began to develop an interest in politics and people her friends were saying that in Albany the marriage look much happier they both looked much happier. And then well if in much 913 Franklin at the age of 31 landed a

prestigious job which funnily enough Theodore Roosevelt had had before him which was assistant secretary of the Navy in Washington Eleanor went to huge links to help him with his job. You know getting out on ships braving sea sickness to accompany him on inspection tours paying hundreds of social calls hostessing dinners when she found herself pregnant again she employed a social secretary Lucy. You all know the story don't know why everybody knows this story it's not all that interesting. But anyway Lucy Mercer her social secretary and this was the war. Franklin was in a very prestigious Navy position building up U.S. Navy. He was a little hippie there's no doubt he was so good looking that all the papers used to comment on him with his film star qualities. And when poor old Eleanor took the kids to Campo Bello that remote island in Canada off the coast of Maine every summer to get fresh air and so on. He was of course alone in

Washington and saw quite a bit of Lucy myself. He went to the war to look at U.S. Naval Operations in 1900 in the summer of 1918. He came back with double pneumonia. He was carried off the ship on a stretcher. Eleanor unpacked a suitcase. You all know it don't you. He came across a bundle of lace. She came across a bundle of love letters from Lucy MS.. It was a bad moment in the marriage everybody likes to say most people like to say it was a turning point in the New Yorker to say it was a turning point from which the marriage never recovered. In the months after the Lucy Mercer affair Franklin still called his wife to respond she called him dearest honey. I mean they got over it. Many men had affairs in Washington while their wives were away. And you know frankly I don't even know nobody knows it is absolutely impossible for us to know unless some letters turn up whether it was even consummated whether it was even an affair or

whether it was a sort of. Certainly it was romantic attachment certainly they were in love. But what happened on the backstreets of those roads of Virginia on those hot nights when he took a driving we don't know. I conjecture in my book. However certainly the affair changed Eleanor. I think she realized at that point that she couldn't just be a wife. She had defined an identity beyond that. She had also done really hard public service work during the war and she she loved it. She was working for the Red Cross and of course it was nine thousand nine hundred one thousand nineteen that was no longer the Victorian period the first world war changed values. This was now the beginning of the what we call the roaring 20s. Eleanor was meeting progressive women and I think she was increasingly having trouble with realizing that you know her mother her mother in law's values belong to a bygone world didn't interest her anymore.

For the moment Eleanor was still primarily a wife. In June 19 20 Franklin at the age of thirty eight was nominated as the Democratic Party candidate for vice president. Frances Perkins safety as future secretary of labor described him at the Democratic convention told strong handsome and popular. He was one of the stars of the show. I recall how he displayed his athletic ability by bolting over a row of chairs to get to the platform in a hurry. Eleanor joined Franklin on his campaign train across the country. This for the first time women did have the votes and Eleanor made a difference. It was almost certain that the Democrats would lose that year and they did but Franklin made a very positive impact on the national stage. He privately hoped to run next time as a presidential candidate. In the meantime he planned to run as governor of New York and then in the summer of 1991 when Franklin seem to be nicely on course for the bully pulpit and

for the first time in years planning to spend the whole summer on Campo Bello with his family. Louis Howe was there with his family. The two men were modeling toy ships and planning Franklins run as governor and then. On Wednesday August the 10th Franklin went to bed shivering and aching all over. And this you know by Friday most of his body was paralyzed. This was 1921 Campo Bello was a remote island there was no bridge for an ambulance to come. There were no helicopters. The one telephone on the island at the poor general store offered no privacy and it would of course panic on the island if Eleanor had described Franklin symptoms on the phone. The nearest doctor had to motor across on a boat from loo pick Lubeck across the Straits. He taught Eleanor who had no nursing training how to insert a catheter with great care so as not to cause an infection. How to administer and Emma because Franklin was completely at that point he was paralyzed

up to even his face. So by the time a specialist from Boston arrived on the island a specialist in infantile paralysis Franklin had been lying in bed for two weeks unable to move unable to turn with Eleanor lying you know in the bed beside the bit moving nursing him 24 hours around the clock. It was as they feared polio. Sixteen years into the marriage Franklin at the age of 39 had become a paraplegic. And I talk a lot I talk about what effect they had on the marriage. I've read many books on the effect that polio has on marriage. Very few people remain sexually active if one partner comes down with a Jew to a car accident or anything else becomes a paraplegic it just doesn't work like that. I don't know why it is that everybody sort of finds it odd that they began to have separate bedrooms. Franklin needed an attendant

he had a valet a strong black man to help him dress and who had to lift him around the place up up and down stairs in and out of cars. And I know this likely every cheerfulness I think I know this was the first person who Franklin fell out. Frank I fell a bit in love or he let's say he depended a great deal on his notice which is very typical. She was cheerful Eleanor I mean I describe the tension in the household that winter it was it was just terrible back East Sixty fifth Street. Louis had moved in to take over Franklin's work. But you know we had was an asthmatic who coughed and his mama couldn't and his mother couldn't stand him that little man she called him. The children resented Louis how his authority in the house there and their mother's obvious obvious affection for Louis house. Franklin was becoming very dependent on this news that bursts of laughter every

time the nurse was in the room and there was a titanic power struggle between my mom and Eleanor My mom wanted him like his father had been at home in a wheelchair in Hyde Park so she said she could look after him so he could be the gentleman invalid and Eleanor realized this would destroy his spirit. And from the beginning pushed hard to get him to walk again and to keep up his interest in politics. She cut things out of the newspaper she kept the friends coming and she told him you know look she got Louis how organized she got his secretary Missy lefthand organized with correspondence and the deal was Franklin had to find his life again later and it caused havoc. His mother and his physiotherapist and his nurse all thought all of whom were in love with Franklin because everybody was. They all thought Eleanor was pushing him far too hard. In later years his two doctors would say that Franklin's mental rehabilitation not to mention his his physical rehabilitation owned owed a great deal to Eleanor.

So what happened now you see that life had changed. Franklin needed an attendant full time and increasingly when the nurse had to leave for reasons that are fairly obvious causing too much tension in the household Missy Lohan and his secretary started to fill the gap and she would go down with Franklin to the south on a boat to low rock. He bought a house boat to Warm Springs Georgia with these Warm Springs. He felt was really doing his muscles good. He went out for months at a time. He spent between 19 24 and 28 much more time in the south at high than at home with Missy. Missy was you know smiling and patient and devoted and adored him much younger. And you know she helped him sort of pay stamps in is he was an avid stamp collector. This would have driven Eleanor mad. I mean Eleanor was back in New

York looking after the children running the household immersing herself increasingly in politics keeping the Roosevelt name on the rows of political map and but increasingly with Louis has encouragement and he was still living in the house the two of them were sort of working together to make politics still. A force in the Roosevelt House and increasingly Eleanor Roosevelt became in the 20s the most important woman in the Democratic Party you've got remember women who just got the vote and she was brilliant committed charismatic a brilliant political figure. MAHER intensely dislike the new friends Eleanor was making these women who were educated who were sort of 1920s bobbed hair cigarette holder knickerbockers behind Eleanor speck Cousin Alice called them female impersonators Franklin his half brother Rosie

referred to them as Eleanor's pileup Pink's and even Franklin and Louis have jokingly called them she males. But they were very fond of them actually and they realized they realized the importance of the women in the Democratic Party. So what's interesting now and you'll read in the book is The Way For example one day on a picnic Eleanor was sort of complaining about you know how nice it was to be free among themselves and how it was never like this in any of their homes because my mom was always in the background it was Franklin who said why don't you build a cottage you know which became the killer which you can visit today and if you haven't you've got to because it's absolutely fascinating at a museum in Hyde Park. Franklin says you know we'll build a house and he designed it. By the way and this was a house where Eleanor lived with a lesbian couple. It was a beautiful stone cottage. My mom was not at all happy about Val

Kilmer with this house of her own. Eleanor had issued an unambiguous Declaration of Independence but Franklin called it the love nest and the honeymoon cottage he was taking a subversive delight in Eleanor's new life. And then in those years to do at Warm Springs it didn't take Franklin long to do something else that was incredibly bold It was dreadful being a cripple at that time you went to some grim rehab dilatation institution and Franklin quickly had the idea that at Warm Springs Georgia he would set up a community where polio is as he called them could go and find their own life again and Warm Springs became famous as a friendly warm experimental community. When in between doing exercises with specialist doctors and physiotherapists these polio squid could comfort each other to talk among themselves have fun and you know Franklin had the most beautiful dining room for them and good food and picnics and Warm Springs was

a community. Radical bold inventive Val kill in its little way Eleanor and her lesbian friend very social life that they led and you know it was only two miles from the house at Hyde Park which was owned by Ma and Eleanor spend some time there some time at Val kill. But when you think about it we're pretty daring things for them to do. On March the 17th one thousand twenty five four years after polio changed their lives. Franklin and Eleanor celebrated their 20th wedding anniversary that's halfway through their marriage they were married for 40 years on a boat alone Roco with the gang as they like to call them. Lou we have Nancy and Marion being friends and so on although those onboard might not have thought so at the time there was good reason for celebration. After 20 years of married life the Roosevelts had achieved something rare. Their marriage was as strong as ever and yet they had broken free from its traditional

confines. By now it was clear to all their friends that Franklin and Eleanor were no longer a traditional couple. They also had independent lives which involved other close companions. It was a daring direction to go in particularly for Franklin who still harbored political ambitions and who as a paraplegic was already facing an uphill battle with his image. But polio had convinced him more than ever of the virtues and joys of communal life. He needed people around him and since he he couldn't get around. He needed the world to come to him while he had no choice in the matter of his dependence. He was careful not to depend too much on any one person. And he also made sure that there was reciprocity. One of the things that gave Franklin the most satisfaction was to provide the opportunity for people to do what they did best. He could see that Eleanor was happiest in New York working in the political domain with her friends. Louis was brilliant at masterminding things behind the scenes. Missy enjoyed being with Franklin as his daily companion. Everyone in the group relied on everybody else and

opened up new possibilities for each other. Franklin liked this kind of bold social arrangement and Eleanor too as I show grew immensely since Franklin's polio I mean kind of equalize the marriage. She became a very necessary partner. Courage is more exhilarating than fear. She told friends and in the long run it's easier. And I won't go into it now but it's in the book I mean it was difficult. Franklin hadn't recovered any of his mobility and there were days on the house but Missy would tell friends when it took him until mid day to sort of put on his cheerful facade and see friends. He was dealing he was dealing with the unimaginable. I also talk about how he came back he understood that to run for politics he had to be seen to be back on his legs back on his feet and how he did this you know going from crutches to the fake walk. Which I won't go into now but he practiced this in Warm Springs you know with the cane

and his son's arm his son's arm was so bruised from being held like that. And they kept his physiotherapist hated him walking like that she said if you fall you'll go like a tree. Bang. But he knew that he had to be seen to be able to stand and to walk it was a decision he couldn't stand. He was wearing 10 pound braces he had to hold himself up on the pole at the podium that's why he gestured with his head. But from New York Eleanor wrote to Franklin I'm telling everyone you're going to the Houston convention without crutches so mind you stick at it. I mean he was speaking at the fake walk and he and his son Franklin even practiced a sort of repartee thing so that they could distract observers you know they had the whole joke joke routine going laughing to each other as if it was easy when in fact the bruises on their son's arms various sons were apparently terrible. So and as you know there is determination as well as their deliberate

deceit. It resulted in a spectacular triumph in November 1998. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected governor of New York. That's a very interesting story because he had two terms for years and Eleanor who had become wary of being somewhat subsumed by her role as wife it's difficult to be a political wife you never know with your husband's going to get back in again in two years and if you're not if you doesn't know where you are in all this she spend half the week as hostess of the governor's mansion in Albany and half the week down here she took the train down to men in Manhattan. And she taught but mostly she was busy in the Democratic women's division. More behind the scenes than before she took a name off various things. But Louie had told her how she could be just as important behind the scenes. There is no doubt that Franklin owed in his election in part to the fact that Eleanor with her tremendous grassroots organization across the country got the women's vote

galvanized. During those years Missy Lohan moved into the executive mansion when Eleanor was down in New York. Missy became hostess the tongues were wagging. Meanwhile. Eleanor refused to go in a chauffeured limousine and Franken said you can't drive yourself if you insist on driving yourself everywhere you've got to have a bodyguard. So he gave her this rather dashing state trooper and tongues started to wag about that because Eleanor and Miller became They certainly had a romantic attachment. I'm sure that's all they had by the way. But and he burned the letters they wrote thousands of SS to each other because anybody who Eleanor was ever close to always remained friends until her death. She was an incredibly loyal friend and Miller and she traveled all round the state together being Franklin's eyes and legs. And Miller by the way was the one who was responsible for telling her

because she was so awkward in front of the cameras. And he said you know you have a beautiful smile. She had a jaw problem as you know but she does have a you'll see in the photos in the book. A beautiful smile. And even when she dressed up in her lovely evening dresses she was a beautiful woman. So I'm just telling you that they both generously accepted Missy Miller. They became part of the gang. Similarly Ellen's lesbian friends and so on they all became part of the gang and I talk a great deal about their community. Franklin during his governorship made himself shown to be an entrenched liberal and by this time it was the Great Depression he was using the radio as a medium to get out to the people which was just as well because the Hearst press the conservative press was 80 percent of the American press. So being Radio speaking or radio at least allowed him to get his own views across directly. It's amazing to hear what what Eleanor does while

he's governor and people. So there was an article in The New Yorker which she wrote of Eleanor. No woman has a better grasp of the intricacies of state business. You know she presided over a reception she wrote magazine articles she gave talks she maintained a vas correspondence. She was governess wife and behind the scenes she was doing her other things. Now one other myth. I mean yes so you'll find in my book I'm much more interested in talking about a very generous community then talking about. Extramarital affairs which I don't know seems to be immensely preoccupied the American mind. But also you know I don't know why there is this demeaning way of talking about Franklin and Eleanor as if they had all these affairs. They had very strong romantic attachments which they allowed each other to have and became friendly with each other's romantic attachments and they

liked. I mean it's not for nothing that Franklin Roosevelt in his speeches used words a lot like neighbors community friends. And they wanted everybody all their friends to build houses near them at Hyde Park. They were communal people. And in fact I want I want to probably end up only just a short passage which shows them in the White House and of course you know White House during the Great Depression and also the World War. I can I can tell you that even in Australia Franklin and Eleanor even in South America certainly in France frank than Eleanor were looked upon as you know the very best of the American character democracy warm hospitable their private life was intensely Democratic. Aristocrats and yet their closest friends people like Louis Howe Missy Lohan and Earl Miller came from modest spec crowns and they never minded.

Not only did they not mind that but I think they've thoroughly enjoyed opening up these people so you know these people's worlds. I just wanted to read you a very quick book about life in the White House under the Roosevelts with the Roosevelts in residence the White House was full of laughter and vitality. You know how it was when Uncle Ted was there. How gay and homelike if he had told his relatives at the inauguration dinner. That's all the Republican relatives. Well that's how we need to have it. Franklin and Eleanor enjoyed communal living. Neither of them like to be alone and they rarely were they felt happiest when surrounded by talk laughter work activity they'd like to have friends sleeping across the whole way who wandered into their bedrooms in pajamas to discuss urgent matters life in the White House suited the Roosevelts to a tee every morning at 9 am off to if he had finished his breakfast Missy and Louie How would find him sitting up in his narrow bed wearing an old sweater surrounded by newspapers inserting in another cigarette into his cigarette

holder. His other two secretaries Steve early and Marvin mech intire would turn up for their daily bedside briefing. FDR was perfectly capable of talking to passing visitors while he was in the bathroom shaving. Take a seat on the Can he would tell them cheerily. He would happily continue the discussion. That discussion while his valet McDuffie helped him dress if he was not inhibited. Missy Lohan lived in a sunny little suite on the third floor. The walls of which were covered with photographs of Eleanor and the Roosevelt children and loved Eleanor by the way has said that in Mrs. Lu we have lived on the second floor in the Lincoln Room across the West Hall from Eleanor and I skip they often had dinner guests and more formal dinners with carefully stage managed. Eleanor came late to cocktails then distracted the guests chatting about the portraits on the walls until Franklin had been wheeled into the dining room and transferred from

his wheel chair to his seat at the end of the table as the group walked in he would welcome them with his big grin. It's strange to say no one visitor commented after Franklin's death. But you didn't really notice he couldn't walk. He was a sort of Mount Rushmore being wheeled around and all you noticed after a while was the Mount Rushmore. OK well I think we can. Have questions now I just want to end on the note that they didn't they pushed each other hard. They expected a huge amount from each other. FDR expected an extraordinary amount from Eleanor. She worked hard. Eleanor was tough on Franklin so that when they wanted to relax Franklin like to have drinks Eleanor surrounded came from a family of alcoholics. She did not like drink. She was not a good relaxer it has to be said. But so OK so they chose to be with

others when they wanted to relax does that make it a bad marriage. And how many of us can talk about marriage being good or bad. You know how many of us experience polio halfway through. How many of us have lived 12 years in the White House. So for us patronizing me to call it a bad marriage and a facade and so on amazes me far more than the woman behind the scenes Eleanor was the woman on the scene she was the woman the press like to joke was ubiquitous. Eleanor Roosevelt certainly couldn't have been the woman she was without Franklin. But I would also say most certainly Franklin Roosevelt would never have been FDR without Eleanor together they made possible what to most people would have seemed impossible. Eleanor Roosevelt once said you must do the things you think you cannot do. She did. FDR did as a couple. They both did. Thank you. Reno herself said for example in her autobiography she wrote three volumes of autobiography two volumes of which she wrote in the White House in the 1930s. And

she and I mean this is hardly surprising any independent first lady has to die ever having any political influence over her husband. She pretended in her autobiography that she never tried to influence him or her. I mean all the letters show it she was always writing to Harold exaggerate Hopkins you know to this what is this true about the Negro community fix it up is this true. So but she denied it and for some and for some reason even in today's New Yorker it makes it starts a new section saying Eleanor Roosevelt never wanted to enter the White House. You know you know the reluctant first lady thing is strong it's a strong myth. I don't know why people like incapable of reading between the lines in an autobiography written by a political person who is capable of pretending that a paraplegic can walk. So I mean one thing is the political myth and another thing is I think you know maybe I don't know you maybe it is a little bit American Puritanism in the minute as a sort of

sense. I mean even if he did have one affair this extremely handsome man in a 40 year marriage to me. Well that's not really a fact I will discuss that afterwards. Are you proposing. No but listen you're. Fair enough fair enough. But you know Ari he was extraordinarily handsome he was political He was charismatic so you know it wouldn't be so surprising if he had won one affair but much is made of this. You know it. The list this no doubt. And it's fascinating in my book that Eleanor was by the way the romantic affair with her and it certainly was physical to some extent anyway with a lesbian journalist the foremost political journalist in the country Lorena Hickok was exactly when Eleanor was entering the White House. She had a great effect on on Eleanor and her understanding of the Depression.

Eleanor read bits out of these letters to if they were having dinner with Lorraine a haycock who and like Harry Hopkins who were traveling around the country seeing things these we could concentrate on the fact that they were romantic attachments so we could concentrate on the fact that they had attachments with people who allowed them to do what they did. And there is no doubt that what Franklin and Eleanor achieved as a couple as a political couple was astounding and has never been repeated since. So that's really my thesis. Well I think the 1920s were in many ways more progressive time. Than you know. Many decades since. Because you know. People I have been working on in other books were also leading rather unconventional lives. People really I don't know. But yes that's the criticism exactly. People seem to think that people can be bold and

conventional in their politics but not in their private lives and I was showing that they were in both. But in the most generous possible way. I mean what a beautiful idea Warm Springs was and how beautiful it was when the group was. And I don't idealize them. I show their flaws. They wasn't really a division between private life and political life and they were very hard working. They didn't have they needed to relax. At least Franklin did you know he was dealing with immense burdens the depression war polio. And as I show you they had major tragedies in their lives Louis had died. Messina hand died of a stroke. I mean her fit in her 40s. A lot of unhappiness. Well I mean the affair in 1000 Well I won't call it an effect we don't know but there was an affair there was a betrayal in 1918. Franklin with Lucy miss and that was that was hard. That's hard on Eleanor by the way she was there when Franklin died.

Much has been made of that probably made too much because so were so were a handful of other adoring women but open marriage. No I'm saying that after polio it had to open up he had to have a valet at first he had to have a nurse. But he had to have a secretary and an attendant. And he wanted to be dependent in the most dignified possible way. And this is where the community comes in. You can you can make life hell for one woman your wife or you can make a community of people and give a lot to that community at the same time is taking a lot. And so open marriage they he and Eleanor definitely did trues it was a choice for the marriage to evolve into a community in a sense you could say it had always been a community there were you know kids and it was the top mother in all. But it became a much more a much more positive community of

people who were all working towards progressive politics. Well I think we stop this. Thank you very very much. Thank you so much for coming on the book shelf. Oh yeah.