WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly Crossley. This is the Cali Crossley Show. About last night on the national scene. It's a mid terms nightmare for the Democrats with the GOP taking control of Capitol Hill and it's party time for tea partiers who scored a string of major victories. But with all politics being local nothing Loko about last night in the Bay State. It's business as usual with Governor Patrick winning a second term. And Mr. Frank going back to Washington in Rhode Island Lincoln Chafee beat his opponents winning the governor's race as an independent and in the land of Live Free or Die Republicans swept the House and Senate. Well Democrat John Lynch secured another term as governor. But before we revisit the regional races we're going to tune into a White House press conference for President Obama's thoughts on the changing of the guard. Up next a midterms post-mortem. Good afternoon I'm Sue O'Connell in for Kelly Crossley today.

Hey there was an election yesterday and we're going to look at how the election played out across New England. Joining me are my bleary eyed compatriots Robert Whitcomb of the Providence Journal Peter Katz's of the Boston Phoenix and radio and TV commentator Arnie Arnesen based in New Hampshire. Good. Good morning everyone. Is it more of the I don't know I think it's ok here. I think the Colombian coffee groups are happy to have elections that have us up watching it so. Peter we'll start with you. You had your handy dandy voter's guide those though the wanky list for those of us who watched the elections from the Boston Phoenix. What pretty much struck you from the local Look here the Massachusetts look. Listen I was flabbergasted. By the Democratic sweep of all the constitutional offices as well as all the congressional seats it was a very close election unlike Chris Matthews I did think that Deval

Patrick was going to win but I thought he would win by perhaps one or two points. What struck me is Scott Brown. We all you know the Democrats can really thank Scott Brown Scott Brown's upset in the special election that allowed him to claim Ted Kennedy's Senate seat. I think woke up the party. And I also think it woke up the electorate who I think despite some pretty dirty campaigns in general paid more attention to the issues this time than I've seen in quite a while. You know we talked all of us at at one time or another about the sort of basic intelligence of the Deval Patrick campaign. And I think each of us at one point said early how this was a campaign that had legs and and had some some basic foundation. I'll share with you that on Tuesday afternoon at about 4 o'clock candidate and Governor Deval Patrick called the bay windows newspaper offices in the

midst of a campaign in the midst of Election Day because he realized he had forgotten to call and thank us for the endorsement. And I don't want you to know that. I'm getting I don't know it's raining but in the end you know it and i already there. Baker Botts I'm out but I mean that shows the level of concern and attention to detail that his campaign has has been the hallmark of I mean you have from from your view in New Hampshire did you see the momentum building and the payoff coming for the Deval Patrick campaign. Well actually didn't we talk about this we didn't have these little yellow checklists or yellow books what was that yellow thing Peter he did remember the old fashioned thing we all know someone the only member of the identification the non computerized. Thank you for the details Michael Curly. Exactly exactly exactly and we were all making fun of him and rolling our eyes back. But in the end as you hear that all the adage The only you know poll that counts is the one on election day. Well you know what he I think Scott Brown woke him up but only woke him up and

understood that he needed to count heads. He needed to know where the warm bodies were this was not and this is not to be an accidental election that was so important in Massachusetts. And because he really led the ticket you saw his coattails going across the board because everybody felt enthused and everybody I think you know spent time to focus. I mean the exact opposite happened in New Hampshire but we're supposed to be your antidote anyway but you're right. Just pointing out that Well Robert we're going to swing down to Rhode Island and take a listen to the Chafee victory speech. Do we have the Chafee victory speech ready up there. Chafey Chafey victory speech just a little bit of that so we can swing down to the Rhode Island area. The round is making history tonight. This is a special place we live and unprecedented freedoms for granted. To our colony in what was called a livewell experiment. And then we would step to that. Lively experiment. And a 19 0 for Rose the

independent man was put on top of the state outside. In the civil society means a fair safety net. Humane prisons clean parks. Good roads and bridges. And swift and fair judicial proceedings. And yes no seven hour waits at DMV. So Robert that was where the high in the low area moving you very well. It certainly has a special place. But in all kinds of ambiguous ways. So tell us a bit about the independent campaign of your future governor. You know what it was he won because of a weird coalition of sort of aristocrats sort of what I guess kind of the rump of the geological Republicans who vote for anybody named Chafee got the some of the urban and most of the urban liberals because remember he ran to the left of his three major opponents of this this race was all sliced up. So he got kind of.

He is the leftist but he got a lot of kind of the old blue blood vote because of the great goodwill that people feel toward him and I think especially his late father John Chafee. And there is a long tradition of kind of voting for aristocrats for top jobs goes way back. Both Democratic and Republican politics. So I think that and remember it was so sliced up I mean there are three people his three major opponents were all to the right of him. So in fact you add them all up you've got about oh you know 65 percent of the vote was to the right of Lincoln Chafee. So it's something he's going to have to bear in mind as he tries to govern. For the rest of the races down here it's just classic it's like Massachusetts it just doesn't have blue you know across pretty much across the board. Congressional races you know those one pretty tight one the first district but Providence Mayor David Sizzler anyone you know in the end pretty easily all the general officers

Democrats except for the governor of course all Democrats local offices so it's still you know remains with Massachusetts probably the bluest place in the in the U.S. a socially conservative in some ways but otherwise very liberal. Arnie onwards upward to New Hampshire in your governor's race by way way way let me kind if I just do a trifecta if you're going to Maine New Hampshire Vermont is where you are I mean we may make Well but what was interesting about Maine is Cutler because color changed the dynamic in the main race. Page 1 The Republican won but he won only by 1 percentage point. But what Cutler did because between color and the Democrat who was running clearly it was more not Republican and that I think protected the two congressional races where the two Democrats won for their their race for the United States Congress so you have to thank Cutler because what happened in Maine is Maine is getting used to independent candidates. They kind of like the idea which may thank you first. Yeah exactly exactly. So I know you love Maine. I love make is Maine is no

one ever knows who's on top. I love it I love it but I don't want it. Just don't want don't have find it amazing. Libby Mitchell the Democrat got less than 20 percent of the vote. To me that is an incredible repudiation of the main local national local Democratic Party. I mean if Switzerland were third world country Maine would be it and the people of Maine are really ticked off at the Democratic establishment. Because I mean you know it's a really really upset about the slow economy I mean Rhode Island and you know it's one of the worst to have for many years the worst economies. And knowing a lot of them and the maners and the maniacs are very worried about that. The problem with the Democratic candidate for governor was that she has been there forever for ever. And so she I mean if you're if you're tired of something that's been around for a long time it happy to have a Democratic face this time. So between the page and color you had something new and everyone is looking to sort of throw the bums out. And the Democrat actually represented that more than anything else in the state of Vermont. What was

interesting is it was a yawn. I mean they have Jim Douglas who after four decades of running for every office known to man in Vermont decided he wasn't running again. So there was a race Shumlin who was a Democrat won but otherwise it was the status quo in Vermont. It is all Democratic majorities in the house all Democratic majorities in the Senate. You know Pat Leahy will you know walk home to back to Washington so Vermont was nothing. And you know what New Hampshire did. New Hampshire returned to the old New Hampshire because in 2006 the unthinkable happened. A bunch of Democrats actually took over the House and Senate that hadn't happened since the mid 19th century. What is what's normal for him to have to share. Exactly Is that it should be all republican all the time and everyone said what about Governor Lynch. He won an unprecedented fourth term. Let me I know this if you want free will popularity. No YOU tell you what I'll tell you why he won First of all remember that we have two year terms for governor. So you know you're only this fourth term really is like the beginning of somebody else second term is like does it have no meaning.

But the other thing you need to know is that Governor Lynch he governs like a Republican. And there's something you need to hold on to. Judd Gregg was retiring for the United States Senate. And Judd Gregg was the big winner on Tuesday night and why do I say that he picked Kelly Ayotte as his replacement. And Joe male Judd Gregg's chief of staff endorsed John Lynch. So what you have is you have already graduated it's Exactly exactly so. Lynch really more represented the moderate Republican in this race and that's one of the reasons why he was able to hold on. He basically governs like a Republican he got indorsement from major Republicans. They kind of do what publicans want you to of course it's a pleasure. It's all part of the I'm a former resident measure myself so I remember that exhibited on his pillow listening to the Kelly Crossley Show here on WGBH I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly we're chatting politics obviously with Peter Katz of the Boston Phoenix Robert would come

from the Providence Journal and Arnie artist and political commentator from New Hampshire while we're on the topic are any of our our favorite candidate who's running for me and her little ADD Kelly. Let's take a listen to kill a bit of Kelly's edited victory speech. I know that your vote for me was a vote to end wasteful Washington spending and when it comes to spending you know my position Washington must stop. I know that the job killing tax hikes that are coming from Washington are holding us back. Well I have another message when it comes to those tax hikes. Washington must stop. Possibly the dryest victory speech of everybody right who have actually been cut.

I mean this is a lot of fun. I say no just say no. So you know the Sarah Pailin taint good bad indifferent. I don't think anyone even remembered it happened so many months ago. And actually what you need to know is the Tea Party Express ended in New Hampshire on Monday night and about 200 people showed up. You're not exactly a huge crowd for the Tea Party Express. No Kelly Ayotte almost ran away from Sarah Palin. I don't think there was any Sarah Palin can claim her but Kelly Ayotte didn't really acknowledge her. This was a moderate Republican who had been appointed as attorney general by Craig Benson the Republican governor they'd been reappointed by John Lynch the Democratic governor and then stepped into the Judd Gregg seat after Judd Gregg basically said I want her. I like playing a lot of hands really good as it was the law. Exactly exactly if this was the Pope she would have been a priest. So it's a it's I mean those of us who you know we have but kind of the same thing and I think it's really important that we focus on this and that is I sent a

Twitter out to you and the Twitter said what I think is frightening and I'm going to bring up Iowa and New Hampshire in this Iowa recall all their Supreme Court justices that decided the gay marriage case in Iowa and in New Hampshire we now have veto proof Republican majorities in both the New Hampshire Senate and the New Hampshire House and New Hampshire was the only state in the nation to embrace gay marriage legislatively. And what that means for some of the Republicans who want to really take that decision back they could in fact repeal gay marriage. And even if John Lynch vetoes it they could override it. Yeah OK well do you think they'll make a stab at that. I hope that it warms. Yeah I think the House might I think the House might vote to repeal it because there are a lot more conservative reactionaries in the House were willing to touch every social issue I think is going to happen in the Senate. Is there going to be have their ears boxed if they touch anything but the economy.

But yeah you know Robert I think that the repeal of same sex marriage except even in California I mean it's basically a dog that won't hunt. You know you can spend your energy on it. But in the end the folks who are older are caring less about it. The folks that are younger don't care about it at all. And it seems like an economic crisis that we're all in. I was surprised Arnie that it wasn't so much an issue and I was happily surprised it wasn't so much an issue in a lot of the campaigns. Well in Rhode Island because in Rhode Island. I mean what New Hampshire might take away could be gained in Rhode Island because Chafee is very clear in that he will sign such a right and you have to silly me that Robert mentioned earlier you know openly gay ok bakery or you know some other people who I know are at high levels who are gay. So you can just send me their numbers because I will spare you the number after I call spoke with Senator Kerry tomorrow who is running for lieutenant governor he told me No no one ever asked him if he was gay so I'm asking everybody now.

That's my whole thing and the other thing is let's remember that New Hampshire is a very libertarian state right. And as I always say it doesn't trust big government but honey it doesn't trust big church either. You know given given that libertarian streak I think the Republicans would be foolish to lose an opportunity to focus like a laser on the economy because that's really what people were saying on another rock highlight from last night was Representative Barney Frank's victory speech which had us all running out for a dictionary at least. Me We're going to take a little listen to a snippet of Barney Frank repudiated own reasoning anger and vituperation anonymous smears and that has to be said. But collective campaigns that were run by most Republicans were beneath the dignity of a democracy. And I am of the right. Right if. They were. To repudiate it. So Peter Barney Frank's campaign it seemed you know that the fear that some people had that he had a big

challenge ahead of him was much ado about nothing. Easy to say in retrospect easy to say in retrospect. I mean his opponent really had loads of energy but he really struck me as a not boy. I mean there is a real lightweight. I was a little surprised I mean those of us who know Bonnie sort of love Grumpy old body and you know it was funny so funny but I got to say at moments like this Lighten up to you know learn from Ronald Reagan be the happy you know smiling warrior. I had I told Peter before we went on air today that I had a dream last night that that Barney was going to come out and say you know what I learned a little bit from this. Now I'm got some feedback I know that some of you were unhappy and then I woke up and it was like you know you know Barney is going to yell at us you know but you know also it's graceful and gracious about you. Wish his opponent well for you know having a lively campaign like that so would have been

Barney I mean it would not be good politics. Yeah but but you know why he's so ticked off I thought I just had that oh yeah sure Massachusetts Massachusetts came in number five in the amount of outside anonymous money being spent in the United States number five. Now this is a very blue state what they do and they do not like Barney Frank. Well you know there is I think he that's part of the problem is he saw so much of this as an assault from outside and he was furious. Listen Bonnie could have been angry about something else and that's he goes from being one of national power one of the most powerful men in Washington to just being a backbencher now and anyone who knows Bonnie knows that you know that's an interesting point Peter during the the New Gingrich take take over back in the early 90s I was I was lobbying as a citizen down in Washington and I was just so struck by how depressed the Democrats were I mean I had in no I mean I knew it intellectually but I

remember meeting with then Congressman Gary Studds just before he decided not to run again and I couldn't believe the depth of the sadness and depression and negativity and that's a good point I mean to return to the toxic the toxic see that is Washington D.C. and not have a position of power is one that makes the job even harder. But it's probably more toxic now it was 20 years ago. I think on the other thing is that don't you think they're even angrier because I mean in 94 what happened was they passed an increase in taxes and they knew that that was a suicidal move. They knew they had to do it because it was important but they also knew that they were going to run the rat race the wrath here what do they do they gave a tax cut on virtually every American. They passed a health care reform bill. They did some regulatory all these things that really you know they didn't give people a job maybe but they did like 98 percent of the other stuff and they still lost I mean and no one even knew what they had accomplished. That's what was so sad about the election on Tuesday was that so few people had any

kind of acknowledgement that there were any kind of accomplishments all they knew was that they were angry and angry about the economy and about the library and who are big readers I mean how many people actually looked at the place and looked at the health care legislation looked at the banking bailout read any of it. Hey how many elected officials remembers a color chart idea. You know Peter what's your take on on on how this bodes the national election in Congress and Senate how this bodes for Massachusetts I mean already the printing presses are running with the Don't blame me I'm from Massachusetts bumper sticker sticker which was originally run during the McGovern years. Oh yes. But you know we can we can all sit here and be proud of ourselves if we're Democrats but the reality is that it doesn't it doesn't necessarily put us in a position of power with the Washington elite now. Well we don't have as much power. But listen the Democrats still have the White House and they still have the Senate and they've lost the house. You know the they'll have to bargain and wheel and deal a little more. You know and the governorship and the

governorship not to be you know the thing is is that the Republicans are now in the position the Democrats are in two years ago. I remember saying at the time that I think the Democrats two years ago were on the verge of making the mistake that the Bush Republicans made which was they actually thought people voted for them instead of voting against the Democrat the Republicans. Now you know the Republican problems a still the same. There are no solutions on the table at all. So I put it all be surprised if we have another flip into this. Arnie I was really struck by how the spin meisters this morning on the Republican side. We're we're we're claiming rightfully I mean I think we all know there's actually no Tea Party there's there's a bunch of folks who have come together there's no central organization. But I hope all of you how quick how quickly the Republicans were calling Tea Party folks just another type of Republican and really trying to

make any wins that were on the Tea Party side a Republican win. Republicans are going to have a very very difficult time and the reason is this. You know you're absolutely right. Of course the next two years since they actually have some control in the discussion they're going to have to make some changes on the economy. They're going to actually produce results. The problem is in order to produce results you have to cross the aisle because you have to at least work with Barack Obama if not with a couple of Democrats. The problem is Tea Party folks do not believe in compromise do not believe you worked with Obama. I do not believe that this is how you get to change. So here you have this dilemma of being told by Tea Party folks you have to walk the straight and narrow but at the same time you have to accomplish something because otherwise it will be a set up for Barack Obama in 2012. And for them to lose their majority so they're between a rock and a hard place. I feel for them. But I think Boehner is that his name Boehner Boehner whatever Boehner Boehner Sandman. OK. Yes yellow orange bad orange bad. What he said was was that this is the president's problem. The president sets

the agenda and that language has been used over and over by Republicans. So suddenly instead of crowing about the fact that they were handed some sort of power all they've been doing is turning the tables back on the president saying it's his problem. He sets the agenda. It will be his fault. You're listening to the Kelly Crossley Show I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly we're speaking politics with Peter Katz is Arnie Arnesen and Robert Whitcomb Peter you want to make a point. Well yeah. You know this is going to come back to the house let's flash forward a little bit to 2011 the United States is running out of money. In other words we're fast approaching the debt ceiling. How much money the United States can borrow largely from China. Representative GDP thank you brought up Central a statistic. Now what's going to happen is that the small Tea Party elements in the elected Congress and I'm thinking specifically of Rand Paul are on a collision course right now with the Republican Washington establishment. And it's going to be very

interesting to watch how this is resolved. Let's not forget too that Boehner is loathed by many members of the Tea Party. And I'll tell you they may not have as Bob called of the Politburo but I would not the same as their legitimacy as a movement. Very few political movements have a central core group when they begin. And I think we I listen I love to make fun of the Tea Party but I think we all do yes Raghad them at our own peril. But do you see any any any evidence of the Tea Party to make it sound like they're an invasion from outer space but you know what I do. I mean a lot hasn't it hasn't hasn't really bubbled to the top in Rhode Island about about Tea Party candidates or is it very minor. Yeah it's Yeah I mean the little bit out in the country this is the area of Peter knows about. He's worked on are little towns like Exeter road on Hopkinton and so on you've got a lot of NRA members and a kind of Tea Party types

down there. But overall no it's really not a major force here in this this jurisdiction this tiny almost idiotically tiny jurisdiction is very set in its ways. It's democratic in a kind of Harry Truman sort of way. They like big government they like these programs and the Tea Party people kind of live out in the woods in that area in the southern part of the state they're just called South County. Very very minor part of the constituency and I can tell this from letters to the editor which I get about you know 600 Yeah they're angry. The people out in the sticks actually they're very angry they send a lot of angry letters to the editor then you have an election and who they elect here you know overwhelmingly Democrats overwhelmingly liberal Democrats both in general office and in the general assembly. You know some little time. Will have some sort of Tea Party type local politicians but it's pretty minor.

Arnie I'm going to I'm going to give you the bad news and the bad news is that before there was a Tea Party there was something called the Free State Project. Remember that and the libertarians looked around the country to figure out where they could come and grow. And they picked New Hampshire. If you look at a lot of the ideology of the Free State Project you look at a lot of the ideology that you sort of hear from the Tea Party folks and you look at the fact that we're doing presidential politics and the campaign for presidency started last night. Last night in the state of New Hampshire you were going to see a significant influence of that libertarian slash Tea Party slash Free State Project group and this is the most the John Sununu who was the chairman of the Republican Party who I said last night on the beach GBH back in September of 2000 of this year said to the reporter from The New York Times I am here to get the vermin out the vermin being Democrats. And then I will retire. So when you've got Sununu pretty pretty good I'd rather a pretty direct and we do we do the first the nation primary.

So I understood what Massachusetts is saying I am telling you that in Live Free or Die New Hampshire will be a very interesting landscape where the thought of my daughter and how we're northern. Near Berlin of that kind of how much is down the southern suburbs which are really part of Greater Boston. Well the part of Greater Boston votes more Republican. All the people that were formerly angry attacks a cheated it's flipped over so the greater concentration of Republicans is right along the Massachusetts border we're going to get a tax break. We'll be back we're going to take some of your calls 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 What are your thoughts on the election. You listen to the Kelly Crossley Show on WGBH. Support for GBH comes from you. And from Brussels a family tradition for over a hundred and thirty years with Thanksgiving centerpieces candles and decor plus 20 decorated Christmas trees in the gift and toy shops. Russell's garden center Route

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and I want to invite you to join me for the eighth annual presentation of A Christmas Catholic sojourn. Joined by Robbie O'Connell Heidi Talbot and the award winning children's troupe from the honey Academy of Irish dance. The show is a guaranteed holiday delight and for a limited time WGBH members can reserve the tickets at a discount at WGBH dot org slash Celtic. Join classical music host Laura Carlo at the 14th annual Boston International fine art show. It's a benefit for ninety nine point five all classical Friday November 19th from 6 to 9 o'clock at the cyclorama info at WGBH dot org. I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly Crossley we're going over the midterm elections with Peter Katz's of the Boston Phoenix Arnie Arneson joining us from New Hampshire and Robert Whitcomb of the Providence Journal. Just do an extortive round up of things that have happened would love to have you join us in the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9

7 0. Yesterday we had a lot of folks calling in talking about why they didn't vote or couldn't vote or couldn't get to the polls today we'd like to know if you made it and if your candidates got in did you vote split the ticket did you vote some Democrat some Republican or in the end did you go all one side Peter. Our state our offices for treasurer auditor and attorney general here in the state of Massachusetts two of those races seem to be pretty neck and neck and could have gone either way earlier. But in the end they all went to Democrats and Grossman. And of course Coakley who was expected to win. Yeah I mean I'm I'm actually happy for my author I mean I think having been blown away by Scott Brown. I think the public in general in their own party has been unnecessarily rough on her. Grossman I think is a fascinating guy. I mean he's who deserves to be treasurer. I mean he

gets really excited about this and I actually think that some of the procedural things he's going to do why says he's going to do could have a real transformative effect on politics but again the point I made earlier in the show I think a lot of it flows. You know Deval got the Democratic vote out granite for his benefit. And it flowed down we're going to go yeah I know it grows but I mean it was you know sort of our professional politician Chairman Oh you know it's very interesting but never having run you know friends will remember he's unfortunately you know he's run Grossman to ensure a little for a run for governor. I don't really I think I think most likely he did Yeah I think you're right you're right you're right back at you but he's. Good man I mean what is a businessman very successful businessman So it's interesting combination you know sort of unusual and the bump campaign of course he had you know the bumping and I thought it was going to win. You know when though I really don't I'll tell you why she's a dolling of the press and the level of

the dirty little secret out there actually. Yeah it's because I'll do my get in the mix though Mary Jo marries the right public and you know when when she was on the turnpike authority she would leak like a sieve. Yeah. And what we're hearing. Well I mean you know when I cast my first libertarian vote you're right I'm not a libertarian but rainbow party I call my first vote I voted for Nate who was running for they think right Nate The great for auditor because he actually looked like he really could be and didn't have any political allies. We're going to go to calls now you can join us at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 we're talking Maine we're talking New Hampshire Vermont Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Did your vote go the way you wanted. We're talking to Walter in the car Hey Walter welcome to WGBH Kelly Crossley Show. Thank you very much. What's on your mind. Number one choose when exactly where where you wanted it to go and you're not your Massachusetts resident You voted him.

Voted Democratic. I did only one of my candidates last and what was you motivation was my motivation for voting Democrat are you are you one of our famous independents who leans Democrat to gore you know what you know so I cannot I cannot say that. Yeah but I do. I mean my state senator actually happens to be a Republican and I am because he's a good state senator. How did you feel about the questions. We had a couple questions on the ballot around taxes. Yes. I'm bored. No no no no no no. OK even the liquor thing. Oh yes. Yeah yeah. Why did you vote no on the liquor tax. Well. Because I was going to get the reason why I know I do have a reason I'm OK. I pulled up where Massachusetts ranked in the tax burden to up the country and the text messages ranks 23 out of 50 states in the tax

code now and on the other end of that where does Massachusetts rank in per capita income but it's usually first second or third rank serial or have any income and then I asked myself do I want to live in Mississippi. Do I want to live and I was like oh no. Because you know like the Sun Belt if you have you know I sure do I want to live in South Dakota. There are living up to code. I want to live in Montana. I just miss Bev and she was does a pretty good job. Now if they're allopatric did not have. Hand it to him on a silver platter when he walked into office. Well I actually walked in four years ago but two years ago you know the stakeout over there and we seem to have survived things a pretty decent message right. All right well thanks so much for your call that was Walter we're taking your calls the date 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. I know i'm But Peter was talking earlier to me about about the

intelligence of the Massachusetts voter in determining taxes right for example the the massive Oh there rejected the alcohol tax which by the way that many people were surprised when the Phoenix urged that that tax be repealed because it's really killing small likest the ones by the New Hampshire border. However the Massachusetts vote the realized what was at stake and what would happen if we cut the 6 percent sales tax to 3 percent. So I was surprised that that there was such a dichotomy that actually plays me. Can I tell you what I heard from Walter who just called I'm sitting here going I'm going off because it's like a cost benefit analysis right. I'm thinking well how do you. Voters like that. Well you know you know how New York respond I took my 10 year old into the voter's booth with me like my parents did to me to continue on the tradition of O'Connell voting and of course I forgot the questions were on the second side of the ballot so youre reminded wants them just once. Unlike a normal Irish person and she looked at it and she said oh you going to vote against the tax liquor tax I

said why she said well because you cant choose just going to make you make you pay fees. If you get rid of the tax and you can choose not to drink wine but you can choose not to pay a fee and I said to her what fees because I don't know I'm only 10. But you know it is it is awaiting that. I love how the electorate in mass sometimes comes up with these. I mean the whole country would do that OK we want to cut this tax. What the offset. Yeah if we get young people thinking this way. I want more more better care and cut my taxes. We're taking to all you know you know get to get the relationship here. 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 at the Kelly Crossley Show on WGBH. I'm sue a call with Peter Katz is Arnie Arnesen and Bob we're going to go to Paul in when I'm Paul welcome to the Kelly Crossley Show. Thank you. What's on my mind. Bonnie Frank declaring that he's a big winner. He's not a big winner he was

performed poorly but. Don't bump being considered as the auditor after that gaffe with the property taxes and her failure to understand it was a residence. Yeah it's right to well it's you know it's one of those issues that is sort of peter you can correct me on this or any of you can that it was sort of legal but against the spirit of the law. Yeah it was against the spirit Oh you're trying to have it I don't care if it's in a very in here and I not hear it but it's not a senator it wasn't only the law and the law is clear that you get one exemption. You know that I'm into revenues when exemption but to take it a step further. This is the woman who gave one day's notice to leave the department of the executive office of Labor and Workforce about one day's notice. What would you vote for if I could have sold it to Mary Z. Yeah and you I mean you know each of those candidates I think had some baggage bring along with them. So any baggage. Well Mary had some

some you know got a bad job interview or something something like that but in the end you know Mary Mary I mean are you a Republican by nature you know. No but I appreciate Paul there's a synergy on the boat. Thank you all I know that there are coattails and people get swept in and swept out and there are advantages when you look at the Massachusetts electorate this time they voted very very clearly democratic and people that were in the margins could do very well. Listen if you jump up to Maine first if works for the excuse me for example there comes out the fellow who won for governor his wife's claim to residency in Florida right now. You know the page is a look I mean we all get less I think these are legitimate issues but we tend to get picky when we're looking for a way that just the fly one over the other you know really like I said I said in pumps defense that you know if I got a question on a lot of my taxes I mean it's part of the tax problem that you don't understand how your taxes are filled out nobody understands the state or federal

tax code. Right Sargasso Sea right when she was running for auditor and I kind of took the wind out of my sails really was like we're going to talk to Greg in Hanover Greg welcome to the Kelly Crossley Show on WGBH what's on your mind. Yes going back to the point somebody brought up earlier about all the accomplishments the democratic body has accomplished in just two years and my wife and I both very upset about that. You know why has this been a poet and why is it just been such a general swept under the rug and talk over you know like the spin that's been put on it has been so negative the spin about you mean statewide or national Yeah and even statewide I mean and you know and another point I want to bring up is that nobody likes taxes. All right but we need taxes we need revenue I mean come on. Right no relief Noble's Asian I think you all. Yeah I mean that's why I came in and they're all been seen for the past four years a tax that all the Hall

Why can't it be you know the hall who gets it done I mean it's taxes. Let's face it. Very unpopular but necessary in any other governor or any other politician but you know Senator Harvestman what have you become events of all are going to raise taxes. Well it's political suicide. Really I wasn't all that often. But my point is this is that they are necessary and I am glad that the ball that one you know because the fact that he's holding costs but we just feel my wife and I and I'm sure a lot of other people are upset at the fact that the Democrats are doing everything they can I think to get things done get the economy back on track and I think it is getting back on track. But it ain't going to happen overnight. Greg thanks so much. Thanks for the call appreciate it would it's so easy to say it's so easy to yell NO. Right. It's really hard to say well yes but I want to but I want a little more with the stimulus. But yes but it was it was in the perfect health care. So instead of

celebrating what they did and talk about their accomplishments most Americans thought their taxes went up in the last two years under Barack Obama and in fact they went down to 9.2 percent of America you know Bob's right which it is there you know. The paradox here is a terrible he's a great orator sometimes but not a very good communicator of above at the same time you know I could be doing a fireside chat. I spent I spent you know a lot of my time this fall on the soccer field sidelines and tried to have a number of objective conversations with well read well and tell it tell it to folks who are saying things like well you know I'm not going to vote for this person or that person and then when I'd lay out some points of facts they would look at me like oh yeah that's a good point well maybe I will vote for Deval Patrick again. And it's just you know the electorate it's just hard to get in gauged electorate that's making decisions based on fact. You've already been here and I'll tell you there's a very important story today on the front page of The New York Times business section and that's really

ironic that it's being published the day after this massive rout of the Democrats jammed. It's about the General Motors bailout. Which should really be called the General Motors turnaround and it is not suggested said very clearly Barack Obama's fault that the Democrats have not been crying from the rooftop at what a successful job the turnaround of General Motors has been like this is going to result in the country making money but more important than that it saves jobs in our industrial capacity to compete industrially with China. General Motors. Most people don't realize makes more. More cars in China than it does here. We're taking some calls here we're going to jump over to Andrew Andrew welcome to the Kelley cross show on WGBH. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. I just have a quick question for the panel. I don't really understand listening to the president's comments earlier and I'm going to come in the last hour and I don't understand

why the results of that election are looked at more as as sort of a balancing power. And it just seems and I'm amazed that how the president hung his head low and talked about you know the people have. Well of course the people have spoken but the people are why and you know I'm so excited and proud to be from Massachusetts today and I did not vote for the winning candidate but I think the state made the right choices. I think the tax reduction the sales tax thing made no sense and it was so great to see how that turned out in the public voting against cutting taxes. Yeah right. Why don't we talking more about the balance of ideas in our discourse rather than these guys lost in the wind with the repeal of this agenda or that it rather than talking about just checks now and making sure that the system is tooled and tuned in a way that makes better decisions. Arnie is it all about game face I mean is it you know those of us who have had the opportunity to talk to

him they should be high Nazarenes I wish it were about balance I wish that's how they saw it. Instead what I'm afraid of is is this going to be gridlock on steroids. You see if it's about balance then it's about the country. It's about balance it's about let's find the policy. If it's about balance it will be about fixing the economy. But I am not sure that the people that we elected to go to Congress look at this as a real calibration and a rebalancing. I think they are looking at this as building for their return to control not as balance that's the problem. I think it's our God help us all love the Balrog horsepower perks I mean his human nature and mostly their interest and power perks above do you think the voters go in and think you know I'm going to vote this Republican and I want to I want to tell you no or whatever the case may be that message send him a message. Yeah I think there's a lot of that and since sort of an end Coate rage you know. But you know one thing we should remember we're talking about we're talking about kind of political mood swings here but only a few percentage points. Yeah it doesn't take that much to flip

Congress in a landslide. You know what I think we're going to get we don't exaggerate these things you know say OK the you know the Democrats too. I don't say six percentage points less than the Republicans the Republicans sweep the house. Well that can change and I think you know Harold Wilson's great line a week is an eternity in politics. You know listen I'm average in Massachusetts only sixty five hundred votes separate the Deval Patrick. You know the the combined progressive vote for governor versus the the combined conservative vote forgot there you go. Sixty five hundred dollars talking about we're talking about narrow ranges here. One client says but those consequences of those narrow range is what is what's going to make the difference. Having bought Boehner as the owner as the as the owners of the house to keep whatever you want to call them are going to give you the money if you're right. The seder is invited to.

Huge difference in who is the chairman and what bills come to the floor and what gets decided. You go back to what happened with Bush v. Gore it was one to justice. When you look at Citizens United it was one justice. I understand they're not in huge numbers but those numbers whether it's in the Congress or whether it's in the Justice Department whatever that's going to make a difference on how we approach the future. Well to be continued Peter King that is Arnie Arnesen or Robert Wood comes Thanks so much for the conversation thanks to our callers. You can see full of election results and coverage of the state's big wins and losses at WGBH dot org. I've been to Oak Hall I've been in for Kelly Crossley. This is the Kelly Crossley Show where production of WGBH radio Boston's NPR station for news and culture.