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I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Catholic Crossley Show. Emerging playwright Lydia Diamond has established herself as a voice worth paying attention to. Her latest work. Stick Fly carefully observe the complexities of a privileged African-American family as seen from the top of the social scale sat on Martha's Vineyard Stick Fly trans ins locale by depicting the classic things that have long been the stuff of the stage and the American experience from race and class to family dynamics. Lydia diamond examines in a 21st century context what it means to be human. We'll talk to Lydia diamond and director Kenny Leon about putting stick fly on the stage. But first we pay a posthumous tribute to poet Lucille Clifton with a scarcity of words. She captured the intricacies of the African-American experience. Up next on the Kelly Crossley Show a look at the Contemporary Black experience through poetry and prose. First the news. From NPR News in Washington one corps of a Coleman Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood says Toyota

vehicles on recall lists are not safe to drive. The hoods testifying in front of a House panel today. He says people who own one of the millions of Toyotas recalled for safety problems must take it to a dealer to get it fixed. Lawmakers are grilling LaHood about how the government investigated safety complaints. LaHood says the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration or Nitza is following up on complaints. So we'll continue to make sure nobody is doing all it promised to make its miracle safe and we will continue to investigate all possible causes of unintended acceleration. Toyota's chief executive Akio Toyoda will appear today before the same committee. He's expected to apologize for vehicle defects and for failing to care for problems. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke he says the current record low interest rates will remain in place for now. He says these are needed to make sure the recovery remains on track and to take staying out of high unemployment. Bernanke is delivering as twice a year assessment of the economy to a House panel. He says there are signs the jobless rate may be coming down.

Some recent indicators suggest that the theory aeration in the labor market is abating. Job losses have slow considerably and the number of full time jobs in manufacturing rose modestly in January. Meanwhile the Senate is sending a jobs bill back to the House of Representatives this features tax breaks for businesses that hire people who are unemployed and it puts more money into highway and mass transit programs. The Senate versions a lot smaller than the House version that passed late last year but Senate leaders say they're already working on another jobs bill and that one could include an extension of unemployment benefits for people who are getting them now. The U.S. Geological Survey says there's a 95 percent chance a powerful earthquake will strike Haiti in the next year. The USGS studied aftershocks from the powerful tremor that struck Haiti January 12. NPR's Carrie Kahn reports from Port au Prince. USGS scientists say aftershocks will continue in Haiti for many months to come to 4.7 temblor struck the capital Sunday and Monday night rattling

residents already strained nerves although no major damage was reported according to its analysis USGS says there is a 30 percent chance of a 5 or greater earthquake within 30 days and a 95 percent chance within the next year. There's also a remote chance 3 percent that a quake 7 or greater will strike again this year. Officials have cordoned off many heavily damaged buildings teetering over busy streets but thousands of crack structures remain abandoned and at risk of collapse. Scientists say that given the long term estimates of earthquake hazard in Port au Prince any reconstruction must be done with stronger material. Carrie Kahn NPR News Port au Prince. On Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrials are up 79 points at ten thousand three hundred sixty. The Nasdaq is up 22 at 20 to 35. This is NPR. Vice President Dick Cheney is back home a few days after suffering a heart attack. He was hospitalized Monday after complaining of chest pain. Doctors later determined the heart attack was mild. Cheney has experienced heart trouble for much of his life including several heart attacks and

procedures to help keep him healthy. Today at the Vancouver Winter Olympics a showdown in men's hockey takes place earlier than expected. Canada plays Russia and a quarterfinal game between hockey superpowers. It was predicted the matchup would happen in the tournament finals from Vancouver. NPR's Tom Goldman reports. Canada versus Russia was supposed to be the gold medal game from a host country perspective a Canadian victory in that contest on the final day of the Olympics would be the Winter Games enduring moment. But Canada stumbled along the way. A loss to the U.S. changed the Canadians position in the tournament. They had to play an extra game and if they won which they did yesterday beating Germany 8 to 2 then they'd get Russia. Today's contest features the NHL ZX biggest stars. Canada Sidney Crosby and Russia's Alexander Ovechkin and two national teams with the richest hockey traditions. Russia is the speedier team while Canada is deeper up to now maybe too deep with head coach Mike Babcock struggling to get everyone enough minutes against winless Germany. He seemed to get the right combination of

players getting things right against Russia will be a much tougher task. Tom Goldman NPR News Vancouver. Nigeria's ailing president is back home President Umaru Musa Yar'Adua flew home from Saudi Arabia where he's been getting medical treatment for the past three months yata it says Nigerian vice president Goodluck Jonathan will continue working as Nigeria's acting president. I'm CORBA Coleman NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from MetLife Foundation proudly supporting NPR's coverage of aging on the web at MetLife dot org. Thank you. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show to lend your voice to the conversation give us a call. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1. Eighty nine seventy. You can also e-mail us at Kelly Crossley Show at

WGBH dot org. The distinguished poet Lucille Clifton died earlier this month at the age of 73 with a minimum of words she maximize the intricacies of the human. And in particular the African-American experience and 2007 she became the first African-American woman to win the Ruth Lilly poetry prize. One of the highest honors in American poetry. Joining us to discuss Clifton's place on the spectrum of contemporary American poets are Rosanna Warren and Major Jackson Rosanna Warren is a poet who teaches English and comparative literature at Boston University. She was also a Chancellor of the Academy of American Poets at the same time as Lucille Clifton. Major Jackson is the author of three volumes of poetry. He is the Richard Dennis Green and Gold associate professor at the University of Vermont and the Sidney Harman writer in residence at Barack you know Brook College in New York City. Welcome to you both. Thank you. Listeners What did the work of Lucille Clifton mean to you. Have we lost a singular voice or does she live on for you

and her poetry. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. You can also e-mail us at Kelly Crossley Show at WGBH dot org. Rosanna Warren let me start with you. In addition to the honors that we just mention Lucille Clifton wrote 11 books of poetry. She was at one time a poet laureate of Maryland and two time Pulitzer Prize finalist. But for me she was just the People's Poet. She was so accessible. I loved her work. And for you. Well for me she had a kind of perfect pitch or maybe I should put that in the present tense she has a kind of perfect pitch and. She wrote about difficult subjects like race in America and she wrote fearlessly and she put it put the question in a subtle way but a very clear way right out in front of us all. And it was an education

I would say in education of the heart for anybody who reads those poems. And she did it with a lot of humor did she not. Major Jackson. Oh of course it was. It was kind of you know humor that kind of cross swats very basic kind of understanding as well. I mean that the simplicity that kind of simplicity that everyone appreciates. I heard it. Critic recently say that contemporary poetry of which we could count. Of course Lucille Clifton was deadly inaccessibility but it was a thing that in my mind that made her poetry so courageous which is to say also inside her poems was kind of an enactment of something that we all know and acknowledge her for which is celebrating a very basic human lives and celebrating human dignity.

I want to give our listeners a chance to hear her voice. And so this is Lucille Clifton reading a poem in 2008. This is called and you my my it's in the voice of you my mom. Like so say I remind them of home. I who have been homeless all my life except for their kitchen cabinets. I whole hand made the best of everything. Pancakes. Butterfly chicken. My life. The shelf on which I sit between the flour and cornmeal is sick with dreams. Oh how I love her for my own syrup. Rich blood. My true nephews my nieces. My kitchen my family. My. Home.

Rosanna Warren she struck so many of the themes that were ever present across her poems. Looking at race as you've said but also looking at everyday objects and really putting it in a place that we could understand in a more profound way very simply though very simply but I would want to emphasize her subtlety. It's not enough just to come right out and say blankety blank in a direct way that's not. She was a much greater artist than that there's tremendous subtlety and I would just you can open any of her poems and find lines that have that suggestiveness that resonance but for instance in an early poem called in Salem She writes The terror is in the plain pink at the window and the hedges moral as fire. That's a marvelously mysterious simile the hedges moral as fire and behind that poem is of course the whole history of the persecution of witches and there's also a good deal of black white going on in that poem. She Elizabeth Alexander who is the chair of the African-American Studies

Department at Yale wrote a piece in The New Yorker and contribute to her. And this is a quote she said like so many other great nonwhite poets she was not published throughout her career in the pages of The New Yorker where this piece was published by Elizabeth Alexander. Some of her readers caught on later than others and her aesthetic sometimes escapes full appreciation. Is that what you meant as well. Do you think do you think that's true. Major Jackson that some of her aesthetics escaped full appreciation. I think a lot of great poets we return to their work later because somehow they're able to speak across across time I think you know even in the poem that we just heard or read. And to my mind I mean you know clearly down the line eventually that reference may be lost going on to future readers but the sentiment inside it wanting to be one's own separate being in service to one's nephews and nieces kitchen family home I

think that that will definitely find in Noida units and in the future definitely. ROSEANNE I wanted you to read the poem that resonated with you. One of the one I mean you many did but one of your favorites. This poem is called the times. And it came from a leaked book called blessing the boats which was published in 2000. The Times. It is hard to remain human on a day when birds perch weeping in the trees and the squirrel eyes do not look away but the dog ones do in pity. Another child has killed a child and I catch myself relieved that they are white and I might understand except that I am tired of understanding if this alphabet could speak its own tongue. It would be all simple. Surely the cat would hunch across the long table

and that would mean time is catching up and the spindle fish would run to ground and that would mean the end is coming and the grains of dust would gather themselves along the street and spell out. These two are your children. This too is your child. I think that's beautiful and one of her great talents for me as a contemporary poet is that she speaks about what's going on now and so often people think of poetry as removed from them somehow. I know this for you to poll is this really annoys you but but people do think of it as as kind of dead and you know anxious and dusty but they're in that simple poem is about what's happening right now is it is. Is that not what one of the ways that really made people respect her so much and appreciate her so much major corps. I remember hearing about dragging and horrible anti anti black violence of James Byrd in

Jasper Texas and reading list in Jasper Texas in 1998 allowed me to process that moment beyond my own particular fears about racial violence in America. That's just one of many examples of course he wrote about wrote about. Biblical stories contemporary stories historical moments and as well as her her own personal life and struggles. And she didn't separate the two. There wasn't this kind of notion that she would only be a kind of a person no poet but realize that there was a particular position that the poet special position that the poet maintained in the society and that was to speak to the issues that we're dealing with today. She said people wish to be poets more than they wish to write poetry and that's a mistake. No one should wish to celebrate more than one wishes to be celebrated. Yeah I agree with that Rosanna.

I'm nodding my head vigorously. I have to say that for means she's so special. I found her and it meant so much to me that there is one point in particular that I'm going to share with the audience that I have used throughout most of my adult life to give to friends as a gift. At times in their life when they were changing from one momentous occasion to another moving from one chapter to another. And also in times of great loss she wrote very profoundly about loss many times. But this one for me is it the lesson of the falling leaves the leaves believe such letting go is love. Such love is faith. Such faith is grace such Grace is God. I agree with the leaves. That's just speaks to me so much and always will. What will you remember of her. Rosanna personally I remember her heart as well as her great intelligence and wit. And we haven't

yet spoken. Though you've touched on it with this poem you've just read about her instinct for blessing many of her poems are blessings even though some of them look so directly at ghastly and obscene occurrences of wickedness and hurt many of her poems are prayers and blessings. And I will always remember a little casual conversation we had in New York quite late in her life. I asked her how she was and I meant my question but still it was a polite ritualistic question and she looked at me straight in the eye and she said well I've had breast cancer and I'm on kidney dialysis and I have a sick child but I'm fine and I'm surviving. And she'd laughed a great big hearty laugh. Major does that resonate with you. Oh yeah. Last year I guess I saw her in Chicago with her daughter Alexia. We were there to celebrate another important black woman poet Gwendolyn Brooks

of which she was friends and saw as a as a mentor but. In every case in which I did encounter it it was just great poise grace. She never had an unkind word for anyone but a lovely human being but most of all I'm very happy that we have her. I'm so happy too because I never got a chance to meet her and I'm very happy that you two were able to join me in this posthumous tribute to poet Lucille Clifton. She died earlier this month at the age of 73. Rosanna Warren and Major Jackson thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Rosanna Warren is a poet who teaches English and comparative literature at Boston University. Major Jackson is a poet and a professor at the University of Vermont and a writer and resident at college. Up next we talk to playwright Lydia diamond and director Kenny Leon about their latest onstage collaboration Stick Fly. Stay with us.

Support for WGBH comes from you. And from Huntington Theatre Company presenting two new comedies. Stick Fly by Lydia diamond starting Friday. And the off-Broadway hit Becky shot by Gina G and fredo starting March 5th. Huntington theater. Dot org. And from our HCI the rehabilitation hospital of the Cape and Islands committed to helping its patients get home and back to life after illness injury or surgery. You can get stronger faster at our HCI. Details at our HCI dot org. And from Russell's hosting their 16th annual Winter Garden fair February twenty seventh and twenty eighth from ten to four with a farmer's market music and more. Brussels garden center. Route 20 Wayland. Russell's garden center dot com. Hi I'm Brian O'Donovan. And on Saturday March 20th I'll be hosting the fifth anywhere

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Boston complete rules of entry available online at WGBH dot org. I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show the play Stick Fly explores the issues of race class and family dynamics through the interaction of the love A's and upper class African-American family. Playwright Lydia diamond and director Kenny Leon join us to discuss the Huntington Theatre Company's production in collaboration with Arena Stage Stick Fly runs through March to twenty seventh at the Calderwood pavilion at the Boston Center for the Arts. Lydia diamond Kenny and Leon thank you for joining us. Thanks for having us to be here. OK so I saw the play last night and really liked it which is a good thing since you're appearing here today. I was very impressed by this play that set on Martha's Vineyard though which is we can speak it's that's just a general setting it's not the whole thing. And but the fact I have a very strong contemporary

play about these kind of black people meaning upper middle class black people some folks I know that I don't see often portrayed. Tell us about bringing this thing to fruition because we don't see this often. Well thank you. Well first of all I'm awfully lucky and happy to have Kenny Leon as the director. What was that like. The big thing about bringing it here in Boston and in D.C. what I think is interesting about the house is that it's actually not just a house full of upper upper class African-Americans it's a house with the full spectrum of classes and experiences and races which I think is sort of what makes the play exciting. It's a play about a family. It's a play about love. It's secrets secrets. Yeah. Race and Class is very seldom explored in this way. And by the way the humor makes a lot of stuff work very well and I'm funny. Yeah you are

very funny and I think that what you know when you hit on some of those uncomfortable themes or what could be uncomfortable things that people the humor takes them to the next place. Thank you Kenny Leon. You're a kind of a celebrity director now having. Yeah yeah come on. I'm pretty good yeah yeah yeah. I am a little better. All right. Well I'm just saying that for people who don't know that you also directed the revival of A Raisin In The Sun which featured P. Diddy in the role that Sidney Poitier did in the movie of the same name. How do you bring out the subtlety that. Let's people know who these people are and what they represent. Because it's not. If the words are there but you got to make it happen there and I think I was challenged to do this play right because I think many black folks think they don't know upper class folks and they think they don't exist and many black folks think black folks are and I think white folks do too so it's like you're

trying to you know you're trying to present folks that nobody really believes they exist. And if they do believe them it's in a phony type of way so my challenge was to find the truth in these people and to try to find the universe ality in the folks. And I think it's on the page you have to get the actors to say you know just speak the truth speak it like you are who you are. Don't try to explain it to the audience. Don't try to make it plain just say it just let the play happen and I think. We've assembled a great group of actors to really have great comedic timing to have a great sense to search for the truth and proud of what's on the stage. Now when you do a play like this which deals with class across the spectrum as you said Lydia but this is class being shaped by race. What was the challenge you were and were going to work hard not to give away I think here because I want people to go see it.

But what was the challenge in trying to make that plain to people in this in this play. The challenge of a play shaped by well you know I think it's because I don't I think it is only shaped by race to the extent that they happen to be an African-American family. That's a big factor. It is a big factor but what's interesting is that in terms of the power dynamics in the house other than maybe there's a little more self consciousness and self awareness. The dynamics are are not so different because it's just class the things that we're vulnerable about in terms of finding ourselves in an environment that's foreign or wanting a new family to like us wanting to have acceptance wanting to be seen wanting to be heard. Those are dynamics that. I don't like to say transcend race because that makes it sound as though race is not important but I think that where race is important in

the play is just sort of where it's important in my life which just happens to be that that that that I am an African-American woman and so that's the lens through which I see it as a very universal play. I feel and there is one person in the play who is not African-American right. So I think there's a door for everyone to enter this place. You know the first part of entertainment is enter and I think Lydia has just created a fabulous piece for everyone to open a door and enter there. And you may not be an African-American but you know what it feels like when when you're not is it you know you break or you know when your parents are have a secret it comes out late in the family or you or you want to prove or from your parents or who you're dating. So it's a lot of things about the plate and religious human. All right I want to give our listeners a chance to hear just a little snippet of the play. My friend Talia. You mean

she's white. Oh. She's a tally. Sheet here. She's coming tomorrow. We want to lay the groundwork with your mom. Well. I just thought it would be good if you know. OK that was a scene in which one of the sons the two sons of in this family is preparing his father that he's going to bring home his girlfriend who is white but who he refers to as Italian in this scene. It goes on and it's hilarious as it goes on I really milk that went OK you really did very well I have to say thank you. And what I liked the play itself has these overlapping and nuanced themes through it and I like the way that you wrote it was that sometimes the dialogue overlaps. That's a challenge to you as a director is it not Kenny Leon. Absolutely but it's beautiful. I can hear the musicality of Lydia's work and I love you know rhythm work when August Wilson or Lydia diamond. They have a distinct rhythm

to their work and that's a sign of a great artist so I play with that music and you know Lydia gets all mushy so I think there's too much air between that scene another scene it should be on top of each other so I would really listen to her in terms of what her intentions were. But if you close your eyes you can hear how the music of the language should flow. And speaking of not only just the music of the language the music in the play that you do that you open with is my theme song. So I was predisposed to like I play told you. Already Anyway we're sitting in. There is a right thing I said I didn't want it. To go and I don't know it's a possible that my peers really think so. Could I just project you know. OK. All right Kenny what do you think that black and white people think about how do they think about upper class black folks. I think for instance when I go into a room and I asked folks to audition for these characters seven out of 10 will come in and they're real formal you know real pretentious and it's like wait a minute no I know some

folks their dad big bank but they're just down to earth folks then they don't they don't sound like hi how are you doing they don't sound like that is I mean what's up how you doing. I mean and this play even the father in this family he's really you know he's he's a down brother that married into this family so you know they're all cound of wealthy people. And what's exciting for me you know I did Lorraine Hansberry play I've done August Wilson plays. But to do a play where the writer is not talking about you know lower class African-Americans is I think it helps us all understand that there are all types of black folks poor rich middle class what have you and then we all have a lot in common and have a lot of things that you know sort of we have to discover about each other too but I think that he has painted a true picture of upper class upper class. Folks were you trying to break through that stereotype. I mean there are some other people I think about Stephen Carter writing about in the same setting on the Vineyard with a family you know much like you

have put forth in this play. I suppose I was but I don't think I thought of it as writing against a stereotype I think I thought of it as filling a void on stage that I hadn't seen filled. It would it would really be presumptuous for me to suggest that I'm the first person who's written a play about upper class upper middle class African-Americans. I think when they do well that's what I was going to say I have to say. Well I'll give you that. I thank you both for that. I really will. But I will also say very humbly that it's the producers who also have a huge hand in deciding what stories get told to America and we're so used to seeing stories of African-Americans being about. You know the flash of light which is now nominated for the white man are next and I think that there's absolutely a place for that and I think that when we have other depictions of ourselves in other contexts actually makes more room for that to be done more comfortably.

But I would take that further because YOU STALKING MY PRECIOUS color correction purple nominated for an Oscar but in your play you even I mean the African-American father I mean he's not you don't give him an easy road out so all these stories. I'm an African-American male and I'm always saying wow the African-American male has a hard time in Precious color color. But that color Oh yes your play. It's like almost all of them. They have a problem why is that. Well and let me just add that let me add that there isn't there are no typical mama on the couch plays. Forgive me other folks who are here writing them where there's a strong matriarchal presence there's there's not that in this play you're coming from a whole different place now and I'm really actually glad that Kenny said that because one of the the the biggest challenges in the play and my concern sometimes about how it's received has to do with this character who is this incredibly Chris matic incredibly strong family man who's provided for his family and he's made big mistakes. What I think is

exciting is that he's raised a generation of young men who are coming up behind him his sons who are not going to make the same mistakes. And I think that's really why we go to the theater to see the problems of our lives complicated and sort of have to look at ourselves and be challenged. So that's you know my job. Good. You know it was a house that was at unifor that was that way. Thank you educated me this morning I was. That was great. Let me let me tell my listeners that we're speaking with Lydia Diamond who is the playwright of stick fly and the director of Styx like Kenny Leon. What are you hearing this play has been out there in various forms for a while just getting to Boston now. What have you heard back from people about their response and I'm not talking about how good it is I mean in terms of how they're affected by what they see on the stage. Lydia I get a lot of thank you. It's the first time I've seen myself on stage. Oh my gosh it's the first time I've seen my family on stage. I sometimes get why would you put us on stage that way.

I feel exposed you know a little bit of that. Not as much of that as I get. Oh thank you thank you thank you and I and I'm speaking first to my African-American audiences writing to my to the to the white contingent in the audience I also get a lot of wow. I saw my family on that stage. Thank you. I saw a very complicated depiction of a family navigating tricky terrain. Thank you. So it's exciting and I also. I'm just so pleased that Boston has been receiving it the way Boston has Well Boston would have to because it said on the Vineyard even though it's as we've said that you know that's the setting but it doesn't impact except for the references and the way that the house looks and all of that and I have one bone to pick with your sect your set designer. Has he been to a house on Martha's Vineyard who has a chandelier in their house on the Martha's Vineyard nobody I asked all the phones do come on. OK I don't think you know that's true I can show you the exact photo that we took it from. Well you have to show it because I asked my friends last night at the play and we you know never saw the book and I said that part of

that is that it's a very specific architecture. I'm defending. Yeah I say as if I am defending our Tony award winning designer. I am I have to say because I think he's a genius but also because we tend to look at this house and assume that it's an Oak Bluffs and this is not a.. I'm freeload all over the island. I've been going to my you just never seen a chandelier and I mean I've been in some house and I saw my picture from my house. OK well I never seen I've never seen it correct. Well but here is I did a survey last year what I would say I would bet the person on Martha's Vineyard who has a chandelier to invite me to your house. Yes please I would like to see it. The books the art and all of that I thought what was interesting in the reviews that I read is that people don't get some of the luxury one reviewer said it didn't seem luxurious to me which you know means that they had never been on the house in the vineyard they missed all of that. And then another person really recognized that it was act absolutely with the porch in the piece the beach side front you know

location and all of that. And the way that the house was set up the books and the art that of course it was it was interesting to me in terms of how it was reviewed through much less direction the way I described the House and the very first in the very opening is that it is ostentatious and it's utter lack of pretension. There you go. And and it we can feel the money but this is a family that does not have to advertise them old money. Yeah. Are you pleased now that you're being called in here you're sitting with your director who has worked with August Wilson you're you're being called the next August Wilson is this your two trains running your Joe Turner's Come and Gone. Your Radio Golf. Kenny's laughing I know I said. It's it's a compliment. Ever have my name in the same sentence with August Wilson's. I think that there's probably room for other great playwrights and they don't have to be the next August Wilson. I think that we can be. I think I'd like to think that I can be the next Lydia

diamond. And you are going to want to know why you're laughing at that. I was that because we always had this conversation. I had an interview the other day about having things changed on Broadway and you know I always say I love August Wilson I think is one of the greatest playwrights this country has ever seen. But there are many other African-American writers who are writing new plays every day and they don't get the opportunity to present their work on a commercial stage because it's always about they can only be one is unwritten but it's like that one thing in and I know Regina Taylor has a new play. Cheryl West has a new play Lynn Nottage has a new play Larry Diamond has two new plays you know. So the plays are there but it's like why don't you get the respect in It's Always so I hate the sort of comparison. Our writers to each other because it's always like they can only be one and there's never that way for other cultures. No I think you're absolutely right and I would agree with you I just was interested in the reflection of that

because it's an honor. Yeah it's a huge huge honor. And we're very pleased about it. OK. Kenny what do you want people to take away from the play. Lydia What do you want to take away. I want to see how complicated how different African-Americans really are from one another but how universal we are to how human. We all are. We all have secrets in our closet skeletons in our closet and life is too short to just you know point a finger at other folks. All right. Well one reviewer called it good only entertaining and I would have to agree. Thank you. So we've been talking about the play Stick Fly with playwright Lydia diamond and director Kenny Leon. Thank you so much for joining us. By the way Kenny will have a new play with Denzel Washington coming up on Broadway soon. Stick Fly is a production of the Huntington Theatre Company in collaboration with Arena Stage. It runs through March 27 that the Calderwood pavilion at the Boston Center for the Arts. For more information visit Huntington Theatre dot org. Up

next a review of stick fly with our contributor Dwayne Jackson. We'll be back after this break stay tune to eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Support for WGBH comes from you and from opera Boston presenting the world premiere of Madame White Snake February 26 through March 2nd with music by Joe Long and a libretto by cerise Lim Jacobs based on a beloved Chinese legend opera Boston org. And from the Massachusetts Freemasons. Who believe that a man's greatness can be measured. And it's not by his wealth or fame. You can learn more at the Massachusetts Freemasons website. Ask a Freemason dot org. And from safety insurance which is committed to working with independent agents in Massachusetts and New Hampshire to provide coverage that protects your home's auto's business and financial interests. You can learn more about safety insurance at safety insurance dot com.

Why why why. Why eighty nine point seven. Because a program you won't hear anywhere else like the world. So the idea is for astronauts to brew self-sustaining beer in space if I gather correctly is that right. Yeah yeah I think what they're trying to do is set it up so that eventually colonies will be able to brew their own beer. Why the nine point seven. Because it's a new choice in public radio. Eighty nine point seven WGBH Hi I'm Brian Donovan. And on Saturday March 20th I'll be hosting the fifth annual presentation of a St. Patrick's Day at Sanders Theatre at Harvard University. Frankie Gavin and Aidan and Tony McManus made Gilchrist and I hope to sign up for the WGBH Celtic club with a contribution of one hundred twenty dollars and you see two complimentary tickets to the show. All the details are online at WGBH dot org slash Celtic this is eighty nine point seven.

WGBH Boston NPR station for trusted voices and a local conversation with FRESH AIR and the Kelly Crossley Show the new eighty nine point seven WGBH. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. We are continuing the Stick Fly conversation with our contributor Dwayne Jackson. He is managing director at Alania Capital Partners a real estate development and investment company. For those of you who are just joining us Stick Fly explores the issues of race class and family dynamics through the interactions of a topical upper class African-American family. It's written by Lydia diamond and directed by Kenny Leon. It's playing at the Calderwood prevailing at the Boston Center for the arts through March the twenty seventh. Duane Jackson welcome. Welcome. Happy happy to be here with my favorite host or all of public radio. Oh thank you. Now I ask you to contribute to this conversation because you are one of the people they were writing about in the play. I have all my husband here. Come on.

You're an accomplished architect and now an accomplished consultant with this a Linea partners and you know you know the setting and you know the life. Right. So first let's just start off with What did you think about the play. You know Kelly it was an incredible experience it was like looking at my life with a third eye. It was very close because I've got two boys I have an interracial So you know so I mean a song that you know in a mixed marriage relation. You know I have an artist and I have sort of the Son that's been a traditional private equity you know pretty you know professional pursuit so that it touched a lot of touched a lot of chords with me personally but more importantly it was it was it was like a slice of life that we very seldom see. And it was enjoyable to see it one on the stage but the level of complexity and nuance in which Lydia executed the play. I mean it was fascinating to watch. And you know I'm not a play reader but I was beautiful just to go back in and read the play The dialogue was incredible. You know it was really Debbie and I both

enjoyed it tremendously. I'd love to see it again. Being your wife. I'm sorry. Now what. What particularly resonated was there any one part that you thought. No. And that was what was so interesting about it I mean it was very complex. It's my wife and I discussed it as we were going home. And what was interesting about it was that it sliced through a variety or a number of levels of both sort of aspirational objectives within the black middle class upper middle class community for example the the the Cheryl who was in a prep school. But for all intent purposes her life was on track to far exceed obviously her mother's accomplishments but more importantly to into that. Quote unquote upper middle class Cheryl played 18 year old who is the daughter of the maid in the play right. What was the other the entomologists Taylor Taylor who

was born to a renowned scholar but for you know circumstantial reasons you know she lived it with her my father never done a fight with him but you had all of the gradations and unsocial both aspirations and values of that upper middle class family and then then obviously the the family itself so you know it touched on a variety of levels of African-American Americans who pursue pursue the this this idea and this ideal of becoming middle or upper middle class in America. Now do you think we talked about in the last segment with Lydia Diamond the playwright and Kenny Leon the director that they were going up against you know that stereotype of upper middle class blacks do you think it accomplished at it. Well you know because people have a certain idea of what an upper middle class person is.

I was sitting in the green room listening to Kenny's response to me. Kelly you know because you know you know me you know I mean our community as is as diverse in in in how do you see this in social expression as any other. We've got guys who as the kids say talk smack and we have guys who are very proper and appropriate in their language and all of them can be making seven figures. And that is not unusual on the island. What I think is I thought was a thread through it that I didn't ask them about but for me as a as a watcher of the play is that the education thread you hit on that a little bit in that first so it's very clear that the line for upper middle class blacks even the people with old money as was expressed in this play education once again. And that's an interesting point and you we take it for granted because it is part of our orientation. My wife and I were discussing it as we were going driving back

home Sunday night saying that you know education was a requirement. College was not an option. It was mandated. And you had no choice in the matter. Higher education because of circumstances and because of where we were in time. You know that was also an assumption. So again it was it was it is a value that very few people other than folks in the black community understand is that at our core. And that for the for all intent and purposes those who owe those of us who have excelled and have achieved have you know exceptional educational credentials largely unrecognized by you know the broader American mainstream or any unity. OK. Absolutely. All right now one of the things that we've discussed that it's set on Martha's Vineyard though it's the play takes the action takes place over a weekend at Martha's Vineyard yet. There's not much reference to it after that except for the setting. But I have to say that the play and what it is I think it's tempting to say

because it's on Martha's Vineyard is saying something. And that speaks to the history of black folks on that island I lot of people had no idea that that very tony island has had a history of black people for a long long history. And that I believe that you represent like a second wave of folk and to new in that tradition would you not agree that he was it was it was referencing that we are now four generations on that island. My mother and Debbie and I bought a house in the early 70s. We've been visiting there this September being 39 years. We remember it when it was a quaint little island off the shore Massachusetts that is now emergence to an international resort community. It's a. I agree with you that that setting could have been anywhere. D.C. Atlanta you know Philadelphia but by putting it on Martha's Vineyard it gave it a context that was real because we know that that that

particularly becomes a mecca for a national population of African-Americans to converge on an annual basis and to enjoy one another. One of the issues that we have always appreciated about our our our our tenure on the island is the fact that I'm a migrant I'm from the I'm a native New Yorker My wife's a native Philadelphian. Both of our boys were were born and raised here in Boston. And we found that during the summers that our So our children could be in an environment with with other families of similar and comparable values with the same aspirations and that we could feel safe that it would be a nurturing environment that would foster their growth and that I had the same accomplishments. Oh absolutely yeah absolutely yeah. And that was very important for us because we didn't have that here in Boston. We ended up as a as a young family we pioneered a neighborhood in Roxbury because we

wanted to because there was no place in this city where there was a concentration of accomplished African-American men. You know families that could share that familial experience so we live next door to flashin been whiling you know I mean you know some of you know some sister and Richard and Cathy Taylor and judge and red and his wife Shirley doctor and judge I mean that was that was our way of compensating for a lack in the city and that's not a criticism of Boston that's just the reality and that was that was the solution that we sought but given that the fact that we could then go to this idyllic island where all of us spent our summers together you know as the kids it was off the chart. You know they often change. It was truly enjoyable and it just affirmed I mean it reinforced our existence but more for portly it affirmed who we were in this environment and it allowed us to be in a way and in a place that for all intents and purposes was not available to us in the normal circumstances.

Now both Lady and Kenneth Kenney acknowledge that it's very difficult to get a play with this kind of focus featuring these kinds of people the ones that you've just described which represent your long tenure on the Vineyard. It just doesn't come to fruition you don't see that often. What do you think about the lack of a spectrum of the experience out there I mean pressure is up as we know are nominated right now. But this play has been seen in small venues around and may not ever enjoy the kind of mass viewership that other say you know this is this is this is very sensitive question for me because you know my son is is a film writer you know a director and writer in L.A. His wife is also a novelist. We have these conversations at our dinner table all of the time and we keep saying to Dana we keep telling him Dana you've got to tell our stories. It is very frustrating because Hollywood doesn't want that. And I you know I don't know how the play world operates but

clearly there is not a mass market or at least there has the there has never been the opportunity to test the market the viability or the marketability of these stories. I dare say that stick fly could be an enormous success within the black community in particular if you know we knew more about it. And I think that you know let me just back up for a second because I think Spike has demonstrated that Spike Lee's by writer yes Spike Lee has demonstrated the viability of the black experience and the black storytelling in a way that no other no other film writer director has. And so you know there again I'm not a movie maker. I have a son who is in that industry and I find it very frustrating for him. But he and I are constantly having these discussions about Dana how do you crack this. How do we change the paradigm how do we introduce something that has a broad appeal that will that will be accepted by the mass

media and then therefore allow it you know to be test marketed if and potentially find success. Let me let me remind our audience that we are speaking with Dwayne Jackson he's our contributor and we're discussing the play Stick Fly by author Lydia diamond directed by Kenny Leon. Presently at the Boston's Calderwood pavilion let me follow up with what you just said. What always assit about plays that feature these kinds of characters is they have universal themes. Don't worry about it you can come you can enter wherever you enter Kenny said that and I understand the need to say that but some part of me wants to just say well you know this is just my experience and I just like what I would like for you all to experience my experience. Well that would have to be universal. Can I get an amen from you on this. Well you know it's interesting. We sat through the post show discussion and it was like being a fly on the wall because I was more interested in seeing the response

of the broader audience. And there was one question in particular in which I said. How real is this. This seems like a dysfunctional Huxtable family you know or from the passing show and I was like and I thought that was very interesting because one I don't because of the you know the stratification and sort of the dichotomy of race in this country there is no appreciation for you know the existence of this you know that the African-American community is a monolith is not a monolith but that we encounter and experience similar frustrating challenges in life. I mean you know a lot of respects I feel I felt as Lydia and Kenny Leon Leon that it was a universal story. It was a very complex very textured very nuanced story about a circumstance that could have been in a Chinese family you know in a family.

He asked this question as I asked them this and they pushed back on it but this is about class but informed by race to mean all that is a unique experience. OK I agree OK. So I'm saying some part of that can be universal. But you know I used to speak to me about how you think race informs the class discussion. Wow that's that's an interesting question Galli. Well let me say two things about it one I think. I think she I think Lydia addressed it very well. So for example there was a there was a dialogue or a monologue where flip the older brother yes was talking about being followed around in the store. That may not have resonated with a broader audience. It resonated with me because we've experienced that and so I exist now just a little explanation we're not given anything in the way the character was talking about walking into a store where he could easily afford everything in there and being followed not so syrup Tish's laid by one of the store clerks. And but he's an accomplished plastic surgeon and feeling that he

would have to announce that to be Dr.. Well exactly yeah. I also felt that she addressed it very well particularly in the in the island. You know it's a buffer on Martha's Vineyard. Because in a way that because of our history on that island there is a propriety tary interest in him in particular you know plus right. And so we feel that it's ours. And so we you know she deliberately put this family and I know that one day after that I well I think she wanted to say and it's true everybody's everywhere now but it is a particularly interesting I don't I didn't feel that presence and added to the story. And in fact you know I mean there's a piece of me that is like why did you do that because it doesn't add to the story and in fact it causes one to question the relationship of the African-American experience I mean that family was an open lost family you know for five generations.

You know when I do when I have to tell you I met a guy at a party last house was in town I had been in the family a long time and he's black from Chicago and I thought yeah. All right. If the university ality of the Star A OK you know that was a noble of experience and I really would like to go back to you're point. Yeah there were there were a number of nuanced. There was nuance dialogue and enter in good interaction between between actor characters that spoke to this unique way in which race informs you know that that economic experience. And I so I agree with you I mean I you know you know let me just say I thought the play I was constantly trying to come up for air. I mean there was she really did an exceptional job of raising a number of issues without it being heavy heavy and imposing but you know it just kind of

naturally flowed from the dialogue and you're like wow did she touch that. Yes she did a great job. Or oh she dealt with that too. You know what I mean. If she didn't it was a superb job. One of the best I've ever seen. OK one last question. Have you seen a chandelier in anybody. Come on come on lady as a minor come on I know with you know it will be the architecture of architecture. You know I think they did a pretty nice job. I mean I think you know but then when I was right you were in Arkansas what we what we were tsk we were on the far right of the beltway don't get me all the details you've never seen a chandelier to have point right. OK all right take that set designer for that stick. Black. We have been talking about Stick Fly with our contributor Duane Jackson. He's an accomplished architect so he knows about those chandelier and he's also a bad thing partner with NATO partners Capital Partners Wayne Jackson thank you so much for your analysis and to know and you can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show by visiting our website WGBH

dot org slash Calla Crossley. This is the Calla Crossley Show today's program was engineered by Jane pick and produced by Chelsea Mirza our production assistant as Anna white knuckle beat we are production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news and culture.