Rock and Roll; Interview with Jeff Barry [Part 2 of 2]

Work it. Thank you. So when you started record I thought that it was liberating situation for you because you down you know you know anyone make this now that you're making me kind of describe how I was different and I just I think it would be. As a songwriter you would need nothing greater than to have your own label which is what we we started our own label at the Brill Building called Redbird records it with myself in L.A. And of course Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller be the main supplier and that that liberates the writer to write anything you want to write. You don't have to bring it to another producer or another and our guy had a label and. You can write songs

that may not demo as something that someone else might want to record but yet you believe that the public will like them even even the songs we were writing with felt we were making demos we knew that they were coming out on a label which again frees you up to from writing what sounds like the typical song you can write anything you want because there's no one to tell you you can't. You have to do it. I look at it like the direct line to the public and open open channel with nobody know what the genius is between you and the public. You can just do it. Take a song like leader of the pack which was a mini operetta that of course we did with George Shadow Morton but I can't imagine making a demo of that song without making the full

mast with all the sound effects and all the drama in it and even if we did make that demo that sounded like that record. Where do you go with it. You know you have to start a group you have to put out that record by the Shangri-Las on your own label and it's like you make the movie you want to make and you have your own studio. How do you. SS Like where you're writing you respond like I feel like it was never been done. Well you know I think they like I already was there when they were spying on you. You know

when when we spent a lot of time with Phil in the studio and I really enjoyed watching him in the process creating his his wall of sound and the technical of it was great. You know six guys all play in the same part on acoustic guitar and doubling up on all the instruments and kind of making that over tone wash mushy sound which which had such a character of its own was so unique as opposed to the very definable sound of most records where you can pick out each instrument. And I I think it was just great. I really liked it it's a very it's a great background for a song. You know I mean I go like oh has its basis in I think a New Orleans funeral

song they used to march behind the coffins with umbrellas and I'm not sure exactly what it means but the Dixie Cups were from New Orleans and they kind of knew that song Joe Jones was their manager and Guy. Shall we say and the record came about. See I think I was playing a screwdriver on a plastic ashtray and that went out a bungled box that alley and I brought back from my honeymoon in Jamaica and it was a very spontaneous kind of event in the studio. And I think again that that kind of freedom to create for your own label comes across when you when you hear it. It's certainly nothing you plan to do. You know there were no written arrangements let's put it that way. Shadow Morton It is also one of those characters. She's a real character.

We did the most with the shire allies with with George and by and large the it's his influence for the song as in. And even though the sound was certainly largely his influence you could be in a conversation with him a couple of people and you look at me talk to him Look away look back and he's gone. And they literally disappears for days. And I named him a shadow and because of that and it stuck. And he's one of those people who really loves his nickname. He said I think he says his mother calls him George and that's about it. But that's probably a cool nickname after leader of the pack was a success. He bought me a motorcycle. It was my first of 13 and only one really bad accident happened. You described my

character George to me was it was James Dean. He still is but certainly then he's very handsome. Perfect features and more hair than he needed. And and you know of his cool George he was cool and he was the local James Dean. And that's that's that's what he was. I don't know if it was in his head but that's where he came off to me and legitimate legitimate It was absolutely nothing put on about it because he said he has stayed that way over the years. He still disappears too by the way. And not only does he disappear he doesn't show up that we know of. Never again. Oh sure.

You know the story the Shangri-Las records were really audio operas and it was such fun using the sound effects. I remember walking in the set has Segel Senate and that's me going because there's RC goes on cue just where and when we need oh and I don't think I think of someone trying to do that today. I don't know. They'd probably walk out of the control room because it's not cool. But we were having fun. You know laughing. Another story later. Right. Mary was the lead of the shaggy lies and to my

recollection she was about 16 years old when she sang the lead of that very dramatic song. I'm not sure but I think we told it was a real story and somewhere there was this young man laying dead in a coffin who actually got killed on a motorcycle because he couldn't be with his with his girl. And I have this picture of me sitting in the studio across the mike from her with tears streaming down her face as she emoted a great performance. And with that story my the next time you hear that record it will come alive to you. And you can realize that first of all this song is really a script for a singer as you know this script is for an actor the song is to the singer and it didn't happen to her but you sure believe she was the one who stood and screamed look out look out like out. I know

now over the years I've been involved. I don't know what it is that with with death such as my first hit was a song called Tell Laura I love her where's about this. This young guy went as a stock car race to win money to buy is girl stuff to get married or get an engagement ring and presents and stuff and it just hurt me but that song went through parliament in England before they could play it and leader of the pack came out. They called it the death disc and I guess that's that's important to the adults who write the articles and so on and so forth for them to say things about it I had a hit with a song called Shoot Em Up Baby. Which to me meant shoot em up have a good time and it was a big article about it being a drug song. So I don't know. As people look to be negative.

I have heard that the leader of the Packers referred to as the death disc and I went to air which is good especially with the two days. We do love alliteration that it was in 1964. I had my first hit in 1961 with another death disc called to tell or I love her and I felt it really it really got to me when I when I found out that they were thinking of banning it in England and it actually went through parliament and it was decided that they could play it in the Tweet tell our lover and leader the leader of the pack was an it was an obscure and not everything I write is a hit and this one was it was called The water was red. And strangely enough it was kind of the opening of jaws set to music it was about a couple who went to the beach. I don't know if it was at night as in Jaws

but let's assume it was and the girl in the water was killed by a shark and the water was red and her boyfriend a scuba diver had his scuba dive with him and understandably he was very upset and he dives into the ocean finds a shark and kills it and the water was red once again. I think I crossed the line with that one and it was one of the ones that wasn't a hit but maybe there is a fascination with those death discs. Sort of production way you know. How do you know you might like it. How do you write.

You go back to the opera thing the Shangri-Las songs were audio operas. I think the best way to describe them I think it makes you use your imagination. The sound effects bring you to the beach and walking in the sand then bring you to that corner where Jimmy dies on a motorcycle with by with a motorcycle sounds and there was a song called Last Train to Clarksville and surprisingly I never use the train sound effect but it was it's radio. I mean the radio used to do that they used to put on plays and it was a musical play for radio. Right right. When we were creating the songs we we were creating We were very aware that our audience again what were teenage girls but I never really

thought that if we can say music and make the analogy of music to food I don't consider them being like meat and potatoes and stick to the ribs it was more like dessert Candy a treat something that would pass through and begun. And one of the thrills is that to find out that what you remember of the treats and later on meeting the nine year old and a 16 year old girl as adults and to see that those songs were so important to them has been really really rewarding. Boy I really don't know what I'd say about this.

The mid sixties were crazy crazy days. We were flying out to California to work with Phil and jump in the studio with him back to New York for writing songs with Red Bird Records and writing songs outside of both of those arenas for Lesley Gore for instance would look of love and other people and it was we were cranking them out really and not paying a whole lot of attention to any one particular song or artist. It was a very very natural flow. And and I think the volume of material that and hits if I might say and you know like a three year span attests to that and attest to the fact that that youthful energy we all had came out in a fun way. The word fun keeps coming back we were having fun. And part of the part of the process for us was the production of the record which was

another. Another great thing for a songwriter to not to have full control. Not only would you have your own label but you can produce the record yourself and the production process was a lot of fun it was I think maybe more creative than it is today because again it was right brother and we could make up sounds and bang on stuff and we never went in the studio very very rarely did we go in the studio with an arrangement. We needed it for strings and horns but for the rhythm section we played them a song and we make up the parts lock them in and go for it. And as a matter of fact I remember one session we finished early we had an hour left with an hour left of musician time and really went out in the hall and as I recall it we wrote hanky panky in the hall because it was a simple song let's write something quick. Go back in it cut it we'll use it on a B-side. Not know of course that Tommy James was going to hear it on the B side of a record saying I think I'll cut it. And that's that's those That's one of the great

bonuses and blessings of B-sides. Just talk about that. Besides Tommy James hearing hanky panky out of the side of the record. Max would man the group or the person. I heard hanky panky on the B-side of one of our many besides Tommy James hearing hanky panky on the B-side of one of our records I think it was a raindrops record Manford man heard do I did it on the back of what I think was an exciter record and the first alien I heard of that was when it was released and went to number one. I've heard that that's a freebie in the dictionary next to freebie is a picture of Manfred Mann sing and hanky panky singing

Do I did it. Yeah yeah. Various charts you were using. Oh you got it. When the British Invasion was was a tide of young British boys with long hair singing songs that they made up initially but very quickly after that we found that they really wanted the songs that were coming out of New York and they were finding them and then after a while people were writing them for them and the producers the British producers would come over regularly on shopping expeditions to find songs to go back with and cut Mickie Most comes to mind as as one who recognized a certain commercial song quality coming out of the New York scene as well I'm sure as the

Detroit and the West Coast scene. But there was a commodity for both countries actually. Yeah that's what I said.