Rock and Roll; Interview with Joe Tarsia [Part 1 of 4]

They want Dick Clark was a very influential person in the field of the music scene because it gave our key to the music community who thought of access to the to the national market. And with the success of the show many producers and and production companies from Europe were through that throughout the city because if if you could get to meet Dick Clark and he was a fairly accessible person you could personally play or record for him and get a shot of being heard all of the country the next day. So he had a great influence on him and one thought a few music and music in general. Cameo Parkway was one of several companies in Philadelphia the

time that the owner Bernie Lowe is a writer producer piano player and was actually making records before the Dick Clark show had its had its success. But there was Cameo Parkway Chancellor records. I think with the two main record companies that were sort of position in the right place at the right time and when Dick Clark went national. The relationships were established in fact Clark had his own record company called Swan records and he had Danny and the juniors and Freddie Boom Boom Cannon and amongst the artists that he had and so it was a very nice warm cuddly community and I was fortunate to work my way into it at that time. Well my background is electronics I was working at Philco as a laboratory technician and at night I

was moonlighting in a studio for nothing trying to learn about the business it was you know showbiz is very interesting to me. It was exciting and I used my electronics background to start servicing some of the real recording studios in town. And I turned it into a full time job and convince them that I was a recording engineer and ran their small in-house studio. I guess that by today's standards you'd call it the sort of bubblegum wish. You know Bernie was it was just a smart producer in that he would he listen to the young the young promotion people and the people in the in the stock room in the mail room and they would go to hops and see what the kids were dancing to and the next day they would write a song that was called

the twister or the fish or the swim. And actually that was all generated from the input of the kids and young people that that worked at the company. Well my my. I'm sorry. I started working with Kenny Gamble. I would actually that was sort of a casual relationship in that Kenny was at that time a young struggling songwriter who was working as a laboratory technician Jefferson Hospital and would take off in his lunch hour to come and work or try to get into the studio or try to get a Cameo Parkway at the time.

And it was sort of a close club. But that's that's where I first met Kenny and eventually with his determination he finally got a foot in the door and got the respect of the people around him and and worked his way into being one of the more prolific songwriter producers in the city. While he can he recognize that at the time that that Cameo Parkway was a happening company and it was access to the national market. So Kenny was one of many many aspiring songwriter producers that were banging at the door. He was also at the same time trying to make inroads in New York and most of being successful in the record business is is that

climbing through the window of opportunity and can he would up nothing go by to climb through that window. Well I certainly his. I think the thing that impressed me most about Kenny Gamble was that whatever he touched or whatever he did seem to have a magic about it. He would prompt a singer when he was working with him and walk over to the microphone say say to me you know put some of this on tape and and hum were saying a few lines and he captured the essence of the song. And and in many cases many the artists that he worked with actually mimicked what Kenny whispered in their ear or or or later on tape as a as an example. So I think one of his biggest traits besides writing great

songs was he was a stylist he could he could tell the singer how to bend a note or how to phrase a line. Not really. You know I tell you what's wrong with that. It would tend to be insulting to the artist. If I told you told the jury butler would tell you by the grace I was saying you know me but well I think that Kenny Gamble especially especially with the young fellow a few talent that he worked with the intruders and also collaborated with Tommy Bell with the

Stylistics in the. And Barbara Mason and so forth that he was able to impart to them his what was in his brain as far as what the song should sound like. One of the interesting things about Gamble and Huff was that we always said that they didn't write songs they wrote records in that if you listen to the music of Jerry Butler or of our mother in a blue nose or the O'Jays they're not really interchangeable they were they were made for those people and the words that you brought the foot and they made the shoe fit. And. They're there their music for the most part was not interchangeable he wrote specifically for the voice and the talent they were dealing with. To me no.

It was prior to Gamble and Huff. Predominately were doing Top 100 pop type records with artists like the dove elves and Frankie Avalon. People. Of that genre and Kenny really introduced me to urban music and I have to say that. He taught he really did teach me the essence. It took a long time before I could think like he did and pretty much do it without him. But I did it his way and and.

I mean it was not. Uncommon for him to walk over to the recording console and to make an adjustment. You know where I came from and the way I learned to work in the studio that was like you know that's my board don't touch it. But it seemed that what he did worked in was right. And and a lot of I like to think that it went both ways but. But a lot of the technique and appreciation for what what a black record urban record should sound like as compared to a pop record was something that I didn't get. Through the jeans and I got to get through my experiences with Candy and I have to say that that that as we progressed lots of times he wasn't even present because it was no longer necessary but it was still his influence. Margaret.

I think that the major differences between the music that I was doing say in the 60s as compared to the music in the 70s that R&B music or at least the music that we made. Was much more focused on. The spontaneous feel of the of the players. Many times we would let a bad note or or something it was out of tune go by because it was right the feeling was right. And I think that feeling and emotion was an intricate part of the music that we were making as compared to the more highly structured I call it produced music of pop music of that of the 60s and we even see that with with that with the Beatles and the English invasion was was really. A

freer less structured thing and and that I think that I think that the that English sound that she drew that from American R&B music. When Dick Clark left Philadelphia. The producers in the music community in general. Really had. Now for the first time do it completely on one merit and were on an even plane with. With the rest of the country. So that

I mean it really that the major recording sort of centers at that time were New York L.A. Nashville. There weren't too many outside of the success of Motown there weren't too many other areas. I correct that to the extent that Memphis was also a center. But when when Dick Clark moved to. Los Angeles. Then there was a level playing field. And and while the music continued to flow it's its access to instant. To the instant exposure was was gone. Well one of the things I've always told people was I think that some of the best music ever made never is heard in it because promotion I mean it is a

business and and promotion and exposure radio airplay and and so forth and where you're placed in that in the retail store well has an influence on how well your record sells you walk into a store you see it you know nobody's going to buy it. So all those things are our tools to marketing that are really available to the major record companies. So to the little guys in Philadelphia or even Motown or. In. Memphis or whatever they need it. They needed to do it solely on the music. There was no there was no major push. From outside. Well the cork left I guess it was around 63. And and and early like 63 the Beatles hit

and Philadelphia really lost its the spotlight is being a music center for I would say two or three years was. The. Effect of game on Huff and Tom Bell really start to be felt into the mid 60s 66 67 that in that time frame. The Beatles had a major impact in that in that they really changed music forever and I think they changed for the for the good because the highly structured highly produced. Highly orchestrated pop music of the 60s gave way to. More natural expression. It really

opened the door to. To the to the young. Young music writer young music producer you didn't have to be in that click. I mean they really threw open the door and while it was foreign from what what we were doing with urban music with or and they it was I think it was overall good and influence. The first record I cut with Kenny Gamble was actually who was. A writer and a co-producer. It was a record. By Kenny in the kisses called the 81. And really was a sort of a rep of a record that was came out of Motown. I don't remember the name of the record but it was a dance.

Called the 81. OK. One at a time the one in that period which is I would say 64 65. Kenny was not a full time producer he was a lab technician working at the Jefferson Hospital and he had to steal minutes away from his job come out his lunch hour and try to make sure that the session was going to occur and he could have his most impact when and when it was time to launch and he was a person possessed I mean his first love was music and whether it was working till 3:00 in the morning. In the studio or taking a long lunch hour break it.

He was always there always. Making sure that his music was heard. Kenny Gamble was as a. PRODUCER I think one of the things that I always first noticed about him was he's always self-assured he always knew exactly what he wanted to do. And I think one of his better traits was the fact that he was a great people person and he knew how to extract from people their best.

He was never critical. He was always complimentary even when we both knew that that that was not going to be the final cut it was always encouragement it was always. Let's try one more but he would never never criticize. So I think I think when I think Kenny really was a combination of many talents. He was a good businessman. He was a good people person. Was a good songwriter was a good producer and that will add up to success. Mike I. Guess.

One of the interesting things about Kenny Gamble was that one of the early lessons I learned about the people he brought to the studio was he said a lot of people could sing and he always look for that unique voice or that unique something a little bit like green hair. And one of the first groups I work with with Kenny was the intruder's. And the lead singer was I named the little sonny and little Sonny had little sonny always sounded like he was stretching as far as you could to make the note you know a little rough sound about a minute thing that really attracted Kenny and I think it's that that if you looked at Kenny's orders through that through the years you see that. Each of them had their own unique character they they stood apart from. From. People

who just could sing. Well one of the things that. You know when we think about that.