WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Cali Crossley Show. November is Hip-Hop history month and all week long we're marking this event more than music and rhyme. It is a social phenomenon that embodies the visual arts dance and social practices wrapped up in hip hop are clues about race and class in America and beyond it's a kind of cross-cultural glue for the marginalized immigrant experience in Europe Brazil and Asia. Hip hop has been taken in by everyone and if there's one place that's taking in all aspects of hip hop it's the hip hop archives at Harvard University founded in 2002. The pop archive is part museum part academic institution dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge art culture and leadership by way of hip hop. This hour we take a radio tour of the archives but first we're talking politics with a look at how the post election results have landed fewer female politicians on Beacon Hill. Up next from politics to pop. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying in a major

blow to New York Congressman Charles Rangle members of the House Ethics Committee have found the Democrat guilty on 11 of 13 charges against him. NPR's Peter Overby has the details. The longtime Democratic congressman was found guilty on multiple counts of failing to report some financial assets on public disclosure and tax forms. He conceded the facts but argued that he'd been sloppy or negligent not corrupt. The ethics panel dismissed that defense wrangle was found guilty of misconduct because he failed to get professional advice on his finances. The panel also convicted wrangle of abusing his power as a committee chairman to solicit contributions for a college program. But the lawmakers deadlocked on whether the contributions amounted to improper gifts to him wrangle boycotted the hearing because he had no lawyer. The case now moves to a punishment phase. Peter Overby NPR News Washington. President Obama awards the Medal of Honor today to the first living recipient of the medal since Vietnam. NPR's Quil Lawrence reports from Kabul that

heavy fighting continues in the same region where the medal was won with six native soldiers killed in the last three days. Only 10 Congressional Medals of Honor have been awarded in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Staff Sergeant Salvatore Giunta of Hiawatha Iowa is the first to survive the actions that got him the medal two years ago in the Korengal Valley in northeastern Kumar province. The Army says Sergeant Giunta risked his life under heavy fire to rescue two comrades from being carried off by insurgents. U.S. forces later withdrew from the Korengal a remote sparsely populated river valley this month. U.S. troops are in heavy contact with insurgents in neighboring Pesh Valley with similarly few inhabitants. The Army says Operation bulldog bite which began clearing the valley last month has killed and captured insurgents as well as material military sources have indicated they will also be withdrawing from the Pesh Valley in the coming months. Quil Lawrence NPR News Kabul.

In another assault on Iraq's Christian community a gunman have killed two Christians in the northern city of Mosul. Today officials said another house belonging to a Christian family in another part of Mosul was also attacked. A bystander was hurt. The attacks come less than a month after the assault on Iraqi Catholics during mass in Baghdad and the group claimed responsibility for that siege that led to sixty eight deaths and accused Russian arms trafficker is on his way to New York his extradition from Thailand is expected to draw diplomatic fire from Russia saying the U.S. interfered in Thailand's justice system. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said today that Viktor boot's extradition would likely create ripples in U.S. Russian relations but believes things would eventually calm down. This is NPR News. Home Depot is reporting stronger earnings for the third quarter. NPR's Kathy Lohr reports the home improvement giant says cost cutting measures helped raise its

profit outlook for the year. Home Depot says its third quarter net income rose 21 percent to eight hundred thirty four million dollars despite a very small 1 percent increase in revenue. Company officials say it cost control measures including job cuts. Supply chain improvements and a decision to slow down expansion plans for new stores have helped the bottom line with the unemployment rate still high the world's largest home improvement company says consumers are not willing to invest in large renovations. But they are taking on smaller projects and necessary home repairs. Sales at Home Depot's U.S. stores open for at least a year were up one and a half percent based on its year to date performance. The company expects sales to be up just two point two percent for the year. Kathy Lohr NPR News Atlanta. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is pledging 500 million dollars toward helping poor families save money at a global savings forum in Seattle today Melinda Gates said the donation would more than double what the foundation previously committed

to projects for the poor. U.S. stocks continue to fall with investors all worried about higher interest rates in China and the possibility of another round of bailouts in the European Union. At last check on Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average down 184 points at eleven thousand eighteen Nasdaq composite index down 41 points at 24 72 S&P 500 down 20 at eleven seventy eight. I'm Lakshmi Singh NPR News Washington. Support for NPR comes from U.S. oncology united to advanced cancer research with more than 200 active clinical trials online at us on college E dot com. That afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show for Massachusetts politics. This proved to be a banner year for the Democrats but not so much for female politicians. Come January Beacon Hill will still be a boys club

with women holding fewer than one in four seats in the House and Senate. Joining me to talk about this trend is Representative Patricia had the S isten majority whip and Democrat from Somerset. Also with me is Carole Hardy fantasy director of the center and graduate program for women in politics and public policy at UMass Boston. Welcome to you both. Glad to be here. Thank you. Well let's start with the depressing news. You're doing a forum about coming up soon and that is Massachusetts ranks last in political representation by women Carole Hardy fans. Why. Well we're last because Rhode Island was the only state in New England that increased its percentage of women during this past election. All the states declined but Massachusetts declined by 10 percent. And all the other States declined by less than that so Massachusetts 24 percent New Hampshire 25 Rhode

Island 28 Maine 28 percent Connecticut 29 and Vermont 37 percent. The biggest decline was New Hampshire because of the GOP kind of a sweep. They had almost dead had 50 percent of women in the Senate. But the reason why there's some simple answers. One is a lack of succession planning for the most part when women are going to leave. And two there are a lot of open seats and very few women ran for the open seats in the Senate there were 16 open seats and just one female candidate in the general election. So just to be clear I was saying that Massachusetts ranked last in New England that the entire country. Yes. There some people were some Thank goodness. Nationally actually nationally we used to be substantially higher. We're pretty close to the national average now it's now we're just 24 percent the national average at twenty three point five so we've sunk to the national average at this point. This is not good you know. So Patricia that you're one of the success stories

you've been reelected many times and ran unopposed this last go around. That's true you have a long and a short view on this. What do you think about these numbers. Well it's a worry for us because the women who chose not to run represent a great deal of talent and commitment. The women who were unsuccessful also represent potential. And the women who have been elected now especially the new women kind of have to pay their dues. They have to learn they have to grow they have to become part of the process. And that's always it's a long process. It's not something that happens overnight that you you know suddenly arrive at the legislature and you're. Elevated to some position you have to work at it. And so for in your own life what were the ups and downs of your maintaining your city. Actually in the five times that I have run I have only in

my very first run for the open seat I had a challenger and then I had a challenger one other time. You know I consider myself very fortunate. I don't for one minute think that this is the norm. I think that I have been lucky because I've tried to work hard tried to make sure that my constituents knew that they came first last and always. Now what I keep hearing over and over again by analysts is that women candidates have to be asked a lot of times to run for the first time. Was that the case. It was true. Yes true. The very first time that I ran was for a small office in town and someone said to me you should run for playground a Recreation Commission and I thought OK. Same thing happened for a school committee. Now you should run for school committee. And so it was OK you're right. I'm going to run for school committee. It was a little different when I finally realized that

I had something to give. When it came time to run for the state legislature no one had to tell me I was. I actually worked on the campaign of the woman who preceded me who ran for an open seat in the Senate with the Alterian motive of learning everything I possibly could to be able to run a good state rep campaign. OK that's a petition. She's the assistant majority whip and Democrat from Somerset and also with me is Carole Hardy fantasy director of the center and graduate program for women in politics and public policy at UMass Boston. So Carol the result of this last devastating blow are catching up to the national averages that are going down to the national average as it were. Is that as Patricia has just said there are fewer women with actually the power has got to get there and establish themselves and and maintain some power. And it doesn't look much better on a national front actually. I mean even though we heard about a lot of high profile women running I'm thinking of the Meg Whitman's of Carly Fiorina Christine O'Donnell's even Sharron Angle closest to us.

And I'm sorry Lynn McMahon closest to us was running in in Connecticut that didn't result in the numbers on the national level not at all in the Congress. We're actually facing the possibility of a lower percentage in the Congress than we've had in since 1994 when the Year of the woman happened after the needle Hill Clarence Thomas race that sort of propelled a lot of women and there was a sharp rise. But this would be the biggest decline or it would just mean we were stuck at this relatively low level and there's this thing called the Critical Mass theory which says if you don't get at least 25 percent in the Congress it's very hard to initiate policies that would help women in particular for example the rise in 1994 made it possible to put the Americans Against Domestic Violence Act because domestic violence has always been seen as sort of a private issue. But once there were enough women in the. Body

then they could put it on and no guys going to vote against it. So it was something that you need enough women and that's what's supposed bothersome about. About the state legislature is that it's gone below the 25 percent mark which 25 percent isn't enough either. Right. And then of course at the municipal level that's only 20 percent. So we really need to be grooming women to move into those positions and I would like to say that one of the statistics that we have is that there was a study that was 82 percent of candidates under 35 are men. So we need to be thinking about what is it that's blocking younger women from seen political career as doable and desirable. Well some of them would say I've got a family and I'm going to take care of my family that you guys have a wife. Probably be me if I weren't running for office so I don't know how you get around that one because that's a big that's a big barrier for a lot of well there are and there

are ways. One issue is that there are. Training programs for women once they decide to run some of those training problems present. Running is pretty hard which in itself might scare women off. But there are models that are out there where when you stalk about setting up a support system for candidates it's usually about money raised. Campaign Management and fundraising for women it may be you know a babysitting co-op It may be who's going to get your kids to car in the carpool so it needs to create a system whereby younger women with children and families can see themselves supported. And that's a different thing than the traditional model. At some level we're our own worst enemies because we still have. This was the you know late 70s or early 80s the superwoman we can do it all. You can't do it all and you have to decide that you're going to delegate responsibilities as Carol said you're going to look for somebody who's going to help you. I just think of the young women that I serve with now

who will you know be worrying about the ball game they they're missing or the band practice that they've had to ask somebody to go and pick up their child. We don't ask. We don't ask and I think that there are people who would help and would provide that support. But we've got to be shown the way to ask to expect that we would be helped because men certainly expect that their needs will be met by and the personal is political in the sense that for women how you handle your personal life is part of your decision to run for politics. There is another issue though in our graduate program we ask every year like how many of you thought about running for office and it's a wide range of ages of from 22 to 72. OK. And many of them start off the year saying oh no I want to be the advocacy I want to work at. I want to advocate for issues. I always say OK now when you advocate who do you advocate to who gives you what you want either in terms of a

budget or regulation or an event or a a department it's the elected legislators. They're the ones that are going to give you what you want if your advocacy is successful so if you're not at the table in the state house all the advocacy in the world as valuable as it is isn't going to get you what you want and that I think is something that women need to hear that advocacy and elected office are part of the same goal of making a change and making a difference for the world. Well we know that the guy who sits in the Oval Office right now learned that when he was a community organizer he determined that there was only so far he could go President Barack Obama that he really needed to be in office to be able to effect some changes. Patricia died you joined a group of women legislators to go around and encourage the women who were running before the midterm elections to stay strong and to really bring attention to their candidacy.

How'd that go. Well I don't know if we're supposed to have fun but we had fun. That's OK. It was it was something that I think we'll do again because it brought home the fact that women have to support other women. And we had a lot of women who couldn't join us because they had their own races. But I think where we did go it was very effective. We went to an event in Framingham that was just terrific. It was to honor two women who would actually work very hard in the suffrage movement who had a square named for them. We were standing on the street doing a visibility in mile borough and then we were actually going door to door and canvassing in Sutton So we you know it made us all feel like we were helping because. And how was it responded to by by. I think the people thought it was great. The Framingham there were close to 100 people when we were on the street in Mabo everybody was tooting and waving all we were

in Stow out in that area too with Kate Hogan. People were waving and very very positive. We were very positive results as we canvassed for one of our women. So I think in the short time that we had I think we were we had and we made an impact. Now some of the people on the bus lost their their races too. Yeah actually three now that I'm thinking of but actually incumbent women did very well. I think it was 82 percent of incumbent women. Won their races and they won the same as men so I mean I think it's even more than that I can't recall but yeah they one female comments won 80 percent of the time so they do well and women who ran for open seat 62 percent of the time they won. So basically women win as often as men do and that's something that women need to understand that it's maybe a tough thing to campaign but they can do it right.

Yet there is this quote from Representative Harriet Stanley she's a West Newbury Democrat who says women are always considered to be more vulnerable candidates. How do you respond to this. Well that that's definitely true it turns out that the end although it's true that they're more vulnerable but 66 percent of female incumbents faced a challenger in the general election but only 32 percent of the men faced a challenger. Now whether they are vulnerable or whether they were perceived as being vulnerable I don't know they didn't lose but they face about it they face a challenger which is a very exhausting. It is and you know. A friend of mine reminded me of a quote from Tip O'Neill Tip O'Neill awhile ago when he said there's only two things that are important in politics. One is raising money and the other I can't remember what it is because money is very important. And I tell the women who come in you know the new women I've told the brand new women you have to set a goal

right now that you're going to raise money and you may think it's distasteful and you may not like to do what you don't want to ask but it does. It's a myth. It's an objective measure of your strength whether we like it or not like a standardized testing nobody likes it but it is an objective measure. And let me ask you that part and parcel of what you're just saying. You know I thought it was odd that Jill Stein could not close a $3000 gap in the governor's race I mean that to me. I don't know what it spoke volumes about but it seems to speak volumes of some some way because that's not a lot of money and it had she been able to close that gap. She would have had access to all the public financing. Does that say something about Massachusetts because we got a bad rap about supporting women statewide. I you know I don't know because I don't know what her issue was. I think maybe if she had said made that an issue if I could raise $3000 by the end to today I'm going to qualify. She had I believe she would have had people who would have said.

I'm going to donate to her because that's important. I think one of the other issues for women candidates is that we don't want to blame the victim but women do make strategic decisions about when they're going to support women and when they're going to support a male candidate. And I think in the gubernatorial election the issues between for party for Deval Patrick may have made it not a good time to think that a fourth candidate it being a woman was something women were going to go for. That said the campaign when Martha Coakley ran against Scott Brown women supported her over Brown by only three percentage points whereas men supported Brown by something like 13 percentage points. So why did women not support Martha Coakley when it was a clear choice she wasn't going to believe you were

going to lose something for a party. And it wasn't a multiple you know lots of candidates where you might end up supporting someone that you don't like by drawing votes from someone else. But women did not support her to the extent that one would have thought. Which is different than the situation on the right thing Jill Stein is a good example. I think the bump the bump in and contant race is even better it's good if we have two women that we know are going to get a woman. I was going to say that in that race you know you would end up with a winner. Let me follow up with that and ask the question I want both of you to answer because it comes up all the time for people who say OK enough already so what if it's a woman candidate. Why can't we just all support whomever is the quote best candidate and leave the gender off the table. Well you know I always tell people I don't run on the fact that I'm a woman. I run on the fact that I am the best candidate. And being a woman is value added. And I think that's true across the board of all the women that I work with. They are great

candidates. They are smart people. They are dedicated they are hardworking. And the value added in each and every case is that they are a woman. I want to point to our international comparisons. A woman just won the presidency of Brazil. There was a woman who was the president Michelle Bachelet of Chile when she ran as the prep for the presidency she said I'm running as a woman because I'm the value added is important and I'm going to point 50 percent of my Cabinet are going to be women and you're going to get a lot more because I'm a woman in this country. We have to there's this codified rule where we have to deny I that gender makes a difference. I think if at some point I'd love an experiment where women got out there and said look I'm a women and here's what my being a woman is going to do I am going to be as cooperative on the bipartisan I'm going because I'm going to bring things to the table. I'm going to meet with people more whatever it

is that sort of. Exemplifies the best of what you get from having a woman candidate because we've tried it for decades and I mean when Patricia McGovern resit I'm not running as a woman. Hillary Clinton bent over backwards trying to not be a woman. We're not getting anywhere with that. Let's let's see what have I think the value added part is a good thing. You know I'm a woman and you're going to get some extra stuff from me. And and and it you can prove it because for example the legislature I believe when I did the last time to study women are more likely be more educated than the male legislators. So you actually do get certain things and we should be showcasing those things in this particular legislative session. Women hold more titles and renumerated positions than in any other time in legislature speaker. Delay Oh whether consciously or unconsciously chose women to serve in positions of leadership far and away more than any man before him because I think he

recognizes that we work like crazy I don't know. I have to you know it's a go and stop. There's nothing in between for me. I'm sleeping or I'm working. And I think he recognizes that there are a lot of women like that that they just want to work. I think the biggest thing is we really do have to have an open seats initiative we really need to change. Sort of look at what seats are likely to come open and have women waiting in the ring wing pipeline with more in the pipeline actually a strategic a database of this district. This guy's going to move on. He's getting older or he's got his eyes on the Senate. Let's get ready for this one Who do we know. It's more than a pipeline which assumes you can just sort of groom women to go up. We actually need to identify them recruit them ask them and them find them and prime them. Finally the legacy that I notice from Ron Paul to Rand Paul and Quayle from Dan Quayle and you know Strom Thurmond son Rand I don't see that on the other on the

other side. You know often I saw that that needs to happen. All right well since we're in we've lowered ourselves to the national standards. What's it going to look like the next go around election wise what do you think Patricia. You mean two years from now. I think Carol's absolutely right. We have to make a concerted effort where we know people are going to retire to get women to run because we're never going to move women into the federal arena unless they feel comfortable in the proving ground of the state legislatures. So it's what we have to do. And if it means you know starting I go into schools a lot and I will always tell the girls you can be anything you want to be and you can take my job some day. The boys already know they can but the girls have to be shown very very early on. OK 2012 was a look like 2012 that's going to be a very interesting thing I think the 2012 for women

all bets are off on me. The Sarah Palin effect the maybe tempered by the MC Whitman and Carly Fiorina and Sharon Angle effect in terms of party. But she does have some power and women need to figure out why. And how to get on board to get over get those women governors that won this go around. Will be interesting to see what they do. Thank you both so much we've been talking about women's leadership in Massachusetts politics. I've been joined by Representative Patricia Hood the assistant majority whip and Democrat from Somerset and Carole Hardy phantasy She's the director of the center and graduate program for women in politics and public policy at UMass Boston the center along with mass now will be hosting a forum on women's declining leadership in Massachusetts politics. That's tomorrow night at 6:00 at UMass Boston. To learn more visit our website. Up next we continue our conversation marking hip hop Appreciation Month with a radio to

work at the hip hop archive. Stay with us. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Boston Private Bank and Trust Company Boston private bank provides private and commercial banking and investment management and trust services to individuals and businesses. You can learn more by visiting Boston private bank dot com and from Babson College fast track MBA program ranked number 1 in entrepreneurship by U.S. News and World Report. You can earn an MBA in two years while still at your job. Enrolling now for March classes Babson dot edu slash MBA and from the New England mobile book fair in Newton. For 53 years. New England's independent bookstore. The New England mobile book fair find them online at any book fair dot com. That's an e-book fair dot com. On the next FRESH AIR rap star and entrepreneur Jay-Z talks about writing his most famous songs and his first rhymes when he was nine.

They were kind of fanciful young kids like I'm the king of hip hop and were nude like the Reebok the key in the lock with bird so before I get to as long as I live. Jay-Z has a new book called Decoded. Join us this afternoon at two on eighty nine point seven. If you deviate. Hi I'm Brian O'Donovan host of the Celtic soldier ninety nine point seven WGBH and I just want to remind you that tickets are now available for all 10 performances of this year's Christmas Celtic's 0 0 so make sure to reserve the best seats in the house while they're still available. You can purchase your tickets on line at WGBH dot org slash Celtic. When. Emily Rooney on the Emily Rooney show we've got a whole bunch of stuff some serious some not so serious weekdays at noon here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH Boston NPR station for news and culture.

Good afternoon I'm Calen Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. November is hip hop Appreciation Month and all week we'll be looking at hip hop through our local lives. Right now we're listening to the title track off the 2008 album absolute value by Boston rapper afro back to us. Today we continue the hip hop conversation with Professor Mark Some enough Morkie. She's the creator and curator of the Hip-Hop archive at Harvard University Professor Morgan welcome. Thank you very much it's great to be here. Oh it's great to have you. I got to let people know that the Hip-Hop archive is a one of a kind institution. Yes it is it's one of a kind. At Harvard in the boys Institute at one of Berne and it is a collection of everything that has to do with hip hop scholarship or what we call the fifth element of hip hop knowledge. But it also celebrates all the culture and arts

of hip hop as well. And I think. Something that I think a lot of people who are just sort of vaguely aware of hip hop don't understand that it's more than the music genre about which it's become very associated. Rap and all forms of rap. It's really a cultural phenomenon that takes in art and fashion and all kinds of other pieces of society. Absolutely. Hip hop has become basically the lingua franca of urban youth culture throughout the world actually hip hop takes it. They talk about having four elements and hip hop was developed by young people and of course they use the concepts that are in school when they talk about something very very important and we know that the elements are a part of who we are part of the earth and so they have four elements and the elements are considered to be emceeing and the lyrical aspect deejaying and it's also called turntablism now the graffiti writing and the dance and the most important

element of all is what they call the fifth element and that's knowledge and that's really what we focus on at the hip hop archive. And I think what should be clear to people as they're listening to you because you are a professor at Harvard University is right is that this is a very serious study for you. I mean obviously you could be in your car listening to it but that is not the point for you. You're looking at it with an eye toward an anthropological perspective. The ground isn't Linguistic Anthropology and it is to me when when I was first introduced to hip hop formally. That is as an academic area was in the Nineties when I was teaching at UCLA and a number of students when they were graduating brought me various items from their sort of hip hop collection and the thing that interested me most of what was at that time called Peace books and peace books were these artists kinds of notebooks and people would put pieces in them so it could be graffiti writing of their name in three dimensions a poem.

It could be lyrics any number of things would be in these books but what was really important to me as a researcher and someone who cared about material culture and language was that they would pass them on that the power of the piece books had to do with that you shared them you'd let them go. Some of them eventually came back to you but very often people were saying look I don't even know how this one started it's got some beautiful things and I want to make sure it stays around forever. People will be will want to see it and I look at it and I think you know what this is 19 or 20 year old really know and understand and I decided that I needed to understand what it was they were talking about and that's what led me into looking more at hip hop culture in and of itself now. Because you've been in prison I know studying it in this way. What have you seen happen over time. I mean we one of the things that nobody can agree on exactly when it started but we say late 70s in general to make everybody happy. But in your time of getting those peace books from those kids

looking at it with the anthropological slant that you have till now 2010 what do you take away from that that you can share with us. Well one of the things I think really is interesting about hip hop is that the real academic writing begins in the 90s and you see Tricia Rhodes book Rose's book Black Noise you see spectacular vant vernaculars come out you see this period where scholars are beginning to seriously look at hip hop at the same time. What's interesting is you know when you're invited to be on panels around hip hop many of the people who were doing the initial work were women and it was it's very interesting I mean I remember being at a number of events in. When I was in Los Angeles I remember there was a pen with Tricia keys. Brian Krause was on it and a number of people in the. And there was another woman whose name I don't remember but people from the

audience kept saying Why are there so many women scholars of hip hop men should be writing about hip hop not women. And really what the women really were working with were really very much interested in the art form that was created that made a difference in these urban areas that was replaced the need the sort of negative life the gangs the the the passion that was associated with being left in an urban area to do nothing essentially was replaced with the passion for art and culture and dance and music and for ideas. And that's what I think a lot of scholars gravitated to. And so it was a wonderful period now of course everybody is is is working on hip hop scholarship. Across the disciplines and unfortunately the artists and at that time there were a number of powerful

women artists. There are not as many women artists right now who are really popular in hip hop and that's really unfortunate I think because it doesn't give us the entire breath of the community. Well we'll get back to that but I want to for people who are many of our listeners and I think well you know I'm a man and I think about hip hop I don't I'm not even recognizing it but I'm going to play a song now that I think that goes way that that really brought into popular consciousness hip hop. And this is Sugar Hill Gang as rappers delight it was released in one thousand seventy nine. It's considered like the first song that interest introduced hip hop to mainstream America. Here we go. Now what you hear is not that the Democrats are going to try to demean. The guy. Though. The risk. To the kids are. Going to die

down I think it might have been one of your favorite song was how I dance in the studio whenever I hear the music any kind of music I'm dancing to. Well let me just say that I think that for a lot of people that was a cultural WATERSHIP hearing that song listening to how it was put together. Going back to what you said at the beginning about how these songs come together with the emceeing and the deejaying and the beat and the scratching all of that was you know mind blowing to a lot of people who were interested in a different way of expression. Absolutely what hip hop begins with. People talk about who was there but the most. From my perspective the most important thing is that these were the kids they grew up with parents of the set. Part of the movement and who loves the more I think of the civil rights movement the black power movement. These are those kids and so they heard the music of that period. They saw the passion of that period even though they may have behaved the way any young teenager would

behave as though they didn't care they were in fact listening. And so as you listen to a number of the things recordings that came out during that period in lot of things happening at the club it really wasn't all my many ways to their parents and the sort of lyrical background and the political background and social responsibility era that they grew up in and felt passionately about talking about the political endeavor so much of what we understand now about contemporary some contemporary artists are really going hard at the politics in ways that maybe a lot of my listeners might be not be aware of. I am reminded at just most recently that George Bush and Kanye what he the guy he calls Conway West we're doing a back and forth about whether or not George Bush hated black people post-Katrina. But during that same time there was another artist from New Orleans known as Little Wayne who wrote a very.

Pointed commentary through his music. Talking about George Bush's involvement with Katrina and this is just a little piece of the song that he calls George Bush and it's the ending of the song so here we go. It's all right here is dedicated to the present United States of America. Yeah I know him as George Bush but when I'm from the city of New Orleans. We call them news. George. Georgia Bush. George you know you are. A scum. I wish. The kids would assume they've got a right to do so.

OK so I played the wrong track that's the beginning of the song but I want to people hear the beginning anyway so that you can see where he was coming from because he was taking a little piece from Ray Charles as well-known song and using that and now I want to give people a chance to hear the end of it so that they can get an understanding of how pointed his commentary was like everybody around everybody everybody craps you know the tragedy that was Bush from like ever. Everybody have a baby and everybody and I know that you know and it was Bush. Well you can't get any more pointed than men. I don't think a lot of people understand as a lot of political commentary in this work. Absolutely. You know when someone says I like an artist they're listening to everything that artist actually produces in a lot of people don't really associate that with a little way.

I think two years ago I came up with another song on Katrina that was just so moving. It's just absolutely brilliant in many ways hip hop really is there for youth to talk about things that really matter and it is just amazingly good at talking about what hurts the most. Very often we're talking about it in a way that does not it's not it's critically layered is one might want it to be. But it really does hit home what people are often feeling and how they really understand what's happening to them. And we I think need to listen to the the range of things because you are hearing all of it and they very often will latch on to the most meaningful parts of it and while they may play and dance. George Bush is something that young people

know little Wayne did and they talk about it all the time. But you would know that necessarily used to talk to that young person and I think that's sort of the beauty of hip hop if you really want to know what's going on. It's an opportunity to talk to young people about what they're listening to and the range of meaning into what they're listening to. All right we're marking hip hop Appreciation Month with Professor Marcel Leanna Morgan. She's the creator and curator of the Hip-Hop archive at Harvard University and would be back with more break to find out more after this break to ask her about how hip hop has become a cultural phenomenon for all Americans whether they're listening to it or not. So stay with us. Eighty nine point seven WGBH. Support for WGBH comes from you. And from Boston Private Bank and Trust Company. Committed to helping successful individuals and businesses

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When you visit WGBH org right now you can catch up on the day's news listen to a variety of great music and register to win an incredible five nights. In. A way Ira. Kindly donated by 10 and tours. This trip includes lush accommodations at the City Hall in the park guided tours of some of the most visited sites. And a traditional Irish breakfast to help kick start every day. Enter the drawing and learn more about the trip at WGBH org. Join classical music host Laura Carlo at the 14th annual Boston International fine art show. It's a benefit for ninety nine point five all classical Friday November 19th from 6 to 9 o'clock at the cyclorama info at WGBH dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just tuning in we're marking Hip-Hop Appreciation Month all week we'll be looking at hip hop through a local lens. And today I'm joined by Professor Amar Salina Morgan. She's the creator and curator of the

Hip-Hop archive at Harvard University. So here's the thing I wanted to ask you if hip hop is now a permanent part of all of American culture and I ask that because I was thinking when I saw the Pillsbury Doughboy rather than a commercial and then this past election season there were untold numbers of political candidates that performed their message in some kind of rap and hip hop way. And I thought this is got to mean that it's no longer a kind of separate John John runa kind of other it's it's embedded now. Well I think hip hop is embedded in American society and globally as well. I don't know that it's permanent. I think in some form it will probably always exist but if you think about the elements of hip hop it has to always exist but hip hop's influence is I think absolutely remarkable. And I think it really

is associated with. This country's in the world's love of the word the spoken word. The raw aim and the ability to actually talk about important things in ways that have to do with a creative kind of movement that reflects the way we're moving so hip hop gives us not just the fast moving it gives us the slow moving and it gives us the technology associated with the spread of ideas and words and the movement and the notion that we're all a part of this hip hop experience. Well one of the rhyme masters and big names and in this business is Jay-Z known by some to be Beyonce's husband. But in this case here is oh my god by Jay-Z on top of his 2006 album kingdom come. I still can't answer.

For you. We'll come back with. Oh OK so marshaling Amar again this brings up a number of questions. First of all for some of us and I know people are listening saying OK I'd like to probably shoot him as a rhyming master. I just can't understand what he's saying. And then what about these bad words and the continuing use of the N word. From an anthropologist What does this mean. Well first of all I do want everyone to know that they're usually clean versions of songs and so you can actually perhaps find find them. Part of what is happening is that it's a youthful language and so it's bad in some way. It's a bit it's meant to be. And you're supposed to laugh at that look

past it if you're a teenager you're supposed to be like Yes that's us you know. And I. We have to think of it as sort of a rite rite of passage it's a it's a certain period in life. Now of course Jay-Z is an older man and yes point in his life and but he still likes to walk out on that stage and say I still can do this and I can deliver to teach you young men and women some lessons in terms of the language of hip hop one of the things it's absolutely from I'm a linguistic anthropologist by training wonderful about hip hop is that it also represents local language and language creativity. And it takes rules of standard English African American English various dialects and languages and plays with them and turns them around in ways that adults can't necessarily follow. But the young people listening are riveted to it and are playing with it and enjoying every moment of it. That's one thing

that's considered to be an example of lyrical skill and it's. What many of the artists that you've played today absolutely have. And it's it's it's a chorus peppered with what I like to call naughty language and that we have to get back. I think just to say you know something quickly about the N-word in work can be very problematic and very often it's used when people are portraying a real tough guy kind of stance and it's something that gives us a POS for discussion and will I think continue to give us pause for a lot of discussion about what it really means to use a word that is for many in society reference to negative beliefs about people of African descent and stereotype. Is there less use of it now or more about the same. Well it varies I mean I think there are times when it may it peaks at different points when people are really in argumentative mode or they're dissing each other right now it's hip hop is folk focusing much more on the artistry and creativity of hip hop in their lyrics.

And so it's it's really being able to represent the time and place right now much more so than to show I'm the toughest out there. OK it should be noted that Jay-Z also had a very popular song empire state of mind that's just gone viral in many ways and that his new book about his life called Decoded has just come out it's a beautiful book. OK wonderful. All right so I want to because we're talking about people who are masters of lyrics and rhythm and sound and so we have to talk about Missy Elliott one of the few women I can think of who are so successful. This is work it from by Missy Elliott from her fourth studio album under construction. It was released in 2000 too. And in this song she reverses the lyrics a trend that made it into several of her Productions. Following this album. Mark. Let me park you down with every person I meet.

It's. Committed. To get. The search out get a work. Permit. Like I know that the slave. Thing I have to say that's very cold that's very cold. However she survives she stands as an example because women have a hard time and hip hop. See what you know first and foremost in hip hop it is about talent as they like to say it's about skills. If you have skills you're going to survive for the most part in doing some aspect of it. You may not be in front of the camera but you're definitely going to be a part of hip hop. I think for a lot of women in hip hop life is what really complicates things if if they end up being a mother they won't need to take care of their children their family things can happen. And for many people in hip hop the problem they have problems with contracts and how to work that these days most people start as part of a group or crew

if you want to call it that but it may be that there's an artist that comes out before them and then the company of course is going to really want to make as much money on that artist as possible. If you look at somebody who's out right now and very very popular Nikki Menasha it's. Very similar to what happened with her when she first came and took her awhile so you find her on a lot of people's CDs which is a very common way for people to establish credibility credibility these days and then come out with their own recording and she just recently came out with her own CD so it's very difficult for everyone but for women in particular because they usually aren't that many women but if you have skills hip hop really is the place. Because in the end that's what people are looking for. A lot of people associate hip hop with gangsta rap what is known as gangsta rap which is a really hard edged lot of talk about being bad lot of bad language

seems rough. An edited if you will though we know that it is edited and that's really just a small part of what your book is. It's probably the smallest part of hip hop but at the same time we like to say it's also probably the most American soap so it's very familiar in this society some sort of gangster personified. And you know in this country we really do in many respects follow the the the current gangster style and the life that surrounds it. What is I think also important to remember about gangster rap is that it was all very often a form of hip hop. They had incredible production and beats. And so the driving beat in gangsta rap meant that it really was fun in clubs when you're dancing and driving a car and things like that and so gangsta rap had this allure. But for the most part it really was

about the. Production value of gangsta rap the beats that came out of it the actual lyrics became a certain point very boring because everyone and everyone can be the baddest right. You know so now you're Since you're engaged in the serious work of hip hop not just for the rest of us who are listening to it and maybe enjoying those beats that you talk about. What is it that you would want people to take away from the work that you're doing now and know it's ongoing but from a scholarly standpoint what you want people to understand about hip hop. Well I think the most important thing for from from my perspective is that hip hop is really about in many respects hope and the belief that you can actually do something that represents you and those around you and the world and people you love and care about. Hip hop has. It may sound corny but even the hardest hip hop is about what life is like or imagined to be

in. In a world where things aren't fair and where people decide that they are not going to try anymore and hip hop is is is in many respects about yeah it's harsh let me represent the harsh reality to you. But let me also represent to you that you can go on you can make it after all. I felt that way and here I am. And so it really very much is is a part of that story and it's a part of everyone should participate everyone should belong. We often talk about hip hop in terms of race. When hip hop is incredibly inclusive because it's about merit it's about skills. Can you rap Are you the best i'm see let's see. Can you really put together the best beats Let's see can you really do the best break dancing or you know be boy be girl let's see let's look at the graffiti art that you're doing. We really care about those things. And if you're white if you're black if you're female as they say.

Wonderful. We just want we do it for the love of hip hop. You know it's everything is bigger than hip hop. Well the way you're describing it some would say it's about building community in a certain kind of way. It absolutely is which is why hip hop is so powerful globally because it is hip hop you know we do a lot of work on more hip hop. You look at hip hop in Nigeria for example Nigerian hip hop is really focused on how to unite that that country. It's a very young population and that country the north south the disputes in the violence it's hip hop where they talk about it's one Nigeria that's a unifying thing unifying thing. All right. We've thank you so much. Thank you is wonderful. We've been talking about the Hip-Hop archive. Yes. At Harvard University with Professor Marcel in a morgue and she's the Cure creator and curator of the Hip-Hop archive to learn more visit our website or log on to hip hop archive dot org. We're going out on the 979 hip hop hit. Rappers Delight by the Sugarhill Gang Today Show was engineered

by Alan Mathis and produced by Chelsea murders and a white knuckle B and Abbey Road and our web in turn Rosca the Calla Crossley Show. It's a production of a couple of GBH radio. You're sitting here making myself beside me. Yes thanks. It's a POS out the door while the still cool still sick from the. And you're on to the song. Really from you know two weeks like to see you. And he says I was there to do for a while with. You.