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It's movements you want more democracy small D. I thought John John Grey had an interesting in an otherwise reasonably flattering review in The Observer of your book. I thought raised a very interesting question and he said and this is a question he thought that you didn't answer sufficiently says one oppressed minorities have improved their lot. Will they not want to live as most people in affluent societies do. And how would you respond to that. I think that's what I mean. And you know we have a sort of dance here between acknowledging and I as I do in the book the fact that we overconsume we you know we've managed to shuffle off this huge debt to developing countries and yet now have set a standard that developing countries and people in developing countries aspire to. So I certainly think that as part of as part of just consuming our fair share we need to consume less I mean if we're going to consume as much if the world look at to consume as much meat as the average American does we need seven planets. We don't have seven planets we have just one.

And of course within developing countries there's also I mean there's also a tug of war between you know elites that are gearing up towards consuming vast amounts and. Nonetheless a persistent base of poverty that is being denied through capitalism the ability to consume anything at all and so you know if you take take the example of India where you know India last year or the year before last had more billionaires in the Forbes top 10 billionaires list than any other country more than the United States more than China more anywhere else. And yet India is seeing levels of hunger among the poorest people creeping up at the same time. And and also India is now home to the largest number of people who have type 2 diabetes. It is a health catastrophe that India will be paying for for a very long time. So I certainly think that in terms of consuming the way that we do it's unsustainable. It's already taking a huge toll in developing countries

and we don't have a planet that's big enough to support it. And what we're seeing with oppressed minorities in India that I write about in the.