WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. When it comes to health care one of the recurring arguments for overhauling the system is that it's costing taxpayers billions. A new report out of the Boston Foundation makes this point. Here at home if elected officials employees and retirees join the state's health care system. Cities and towns could save tens of billions of dollars. To put the potential savings into perspective. Boston alone could have over 400 more police officers patrolling the streets if the city opted into the state's plan but opting in isn't so easy. It means getting the support of the unions and failing that major legislative changes do the obstacles to streamlining health coverage locally offer lessons for health care reform nationally. We top off the hour with a review of the Boston Public Libraries made in Massachusetts. Film Festival. Up next the Bay State from healthcare to Hollywood. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying many Chileans are

scrambling to reach higher ground on the orders of their new president Sebastian Pinera who has just sworn in today. The South American country was rocked by more aftershocks today among the strongest since the 8.8 magnitude quake struck last month. NPR's Juan Forero says authorities quickly triggered an alert. Emergency officials issued a tsunami warning across a long stretch of coastline. They did not have proof that there were tsunami waves on the way but they felt that the jolt could cause a tsunami. So at this moment a lot of Chileans are heading for the hills. NPR's Juan Ferreyra reporting the US's trade deficit improve 6.6 percent in February a better performance than economists had expected. NPR's John it still has details of fallen oil imports to their lowest level since February of 1999 helped narrow the trade gap to thirty seven point three billion dollars. But while the deficit shrank because of lower imports

U.S. exports also declined last month. That could be a sign that the global economy is not picking up as fast as had been hoped which could limit U.S. growth in the coming months. In a speech at the Export Import Bank in Washington President Obama said at a time when millions of Americans are out of work boosting exports is a short term imperative. The president also called on China to move to a market oriented exchange rate which would make its exports more expensive. The U.S. wants to export more and have China curb its export growth. John it's t NPR News Washington. A company that monitors home foreclosure activity says the pace of foreclosure dropped last month from January but Realty Track spokesman Rick Sharga says the numbers are still very troubling. The fact that we're we're looking at over 300000 households getting a foreclosure notice as being something of a relief. Suggest that were perhaps getting a little bit numb to the level of activity we're really looking at.

Sharga says there could be more than 3 million foreclosures this year he predicts the job market will have to improve before the situation gets much better. The government is posting a slight drop in new unemployment claims today four hundred sixty two thousand. This helps gauge the pace of layoffs across the U.S. However if you smooth out volatility through a four week average Labor Department finds applications for jobless insurance actually rose to about four hundred seventy nine thousand last trick the unemployment rate stood at nine point seven percent. Holding steady at last check on Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average down seven points at ten thousand five hundred sixty. The Nasdaq composite index down about three points at two thousand three hundred fifty five. From Washington this is NPR News. Preliminary results from Iraq's national election show that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is ahead in two of the provinces in his country's largely Shiite south and southern region.

NPR's Nishant has more from Baghdad. The results are not surprising. Maliki's coalition was expected to do well in the Shiite south of the country. His main rival is coming in toward behind a religious Shia coalition allowing a former prime minister is expected to do well in the west and north of the country which is largely Sunni. Four days after the election only about a code of the votes have been counted it is expected to take another four to five days to finish the counting and final certified results might not be available for weeks. Political party to already disputing some of the results. Election fraud in the conduct of the elections the counting process and the length of time it is taking to release the results. NPR News Baghdad. Prime Minister Maliki has undergone surgery but aides aren't saying for one. According to a statement released by Maliki's office the Iraqi leader had an operation yesterday at the country's largest hospital. Vice President Joe Biden is appealing to Israel and the Palestinians to start peace talks without delay. On this final day in the region Biden told a crowd at Tel Aviv University that the conflict could drag

on for eternity if neither side makes concessions. But new tensions during the vice president's three day trip underscores just how big a challenge the U.S. faces Israel announced it would expand settlements in East Jerusalem. Move the White House strongly opposes. As a detriment to peace with the Palestinians. The announcement during Biden's visit was also widely seen as a slap in the face. I'm Lakshmi Singh NPR News Washington. Support for NPR comes from the George Lucas Educational Foundation providing schools that work. Strategies for a 21st century success. Learn more at Ed eutopia dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. A new report out of the Boston Foundation finds that cities and towns across the Bay State could save millions of dollars by changing the way they deliver health care to main units a pull

employees. Joining us to explain what these results say about the rising cost of health care is the author of this report Bob Kerrey Bob Kerrey is the owner of aureole Kerry consulting. Later in the conversation we'll be joined by Mayor Robert Dolan of Melrose and Rocco Longo the town administrator of Marshfield. But first Bob Kerrey thank you for joining us thank you for having me. Now let me give our listeners the full title of this report which is the utility of trouble leveling the playing field giving municipal officials the tools to moderate health insurance costs. That's kind of weighty. I want to also put into context the fact that yesterday 20 mayors and you initial municipal officials formally launched a coalition to try to move the legislation to change all of this. And so I wonder if you could speak a little bit just respond to that effort and then tell us exactly what you found in your study. So the mayor's issue is that there are in essence two sets of rules with regard to how health insurance is provided to public employees. There's a set of rules that applies to

state employees that is governed through the group insurance commission. Those benefits that state employees receive are not subject to collective bargaining. They're set by the commission. The rules that apply to municipal employees with regard to the health benefits are subject to collective bargaining so any changes that are made to the health benefits provided to Municipal Employees must be negotiated which with each of the affected municipal unions and the mayors and city managers and interested people like myself view that as. Unlevel playing field in the sense that the state employees are governed by a commission that has some union representation but is has a majority management role whereas the Municipal Employees are governed under a separate system that requires a bit by bit change by change negotiation with the union so that is what the mayors and city

managers would like change. Now the House legislation that they would like to move forward is House Bill 25 0 9 which gives health insurance planners design authority to get give that back to the local officials as you've just said. And in that special veto power that you just mentioned. So folks like firefighters and police officers unions and I get city hall workers can't block. Joining the what is known as the G.I. see the group insurance commissions plan. And I wondered if you would talk about what you found in your study which is beneficial from a cost perspective for these municipalities to be a part of. So the study really focuses on why the JIC has been able to achieve a lower rate of increase. Then the health plans offered to municipal employees and with the study in essence found is that while the benefits are different that's why you have a different cost structure. And what towns that you look at. So the report looks at Boston Cambridge Marshfield and Melrose Melrose because it has joined the

JIC and what I try to do is look at what its cost drivers and what its costs prior to joining the JIC And then what might be the effect of the savings. And then in Melrose's case the savings are close to 20 percent savings. In f white 10 versus what they were spending an f y 0 9. So the actual reason why 10 fiscal year sorry. Yeah from July of 2009 through June of 2010. So they joined July 1 2009. They will save in order of close to 2 million dollars off of a base of about 10 million dollars so it's real money that the city of Melrose can then use to increase wages if it chooses or not close schools or not close libraries. Some of the discussions that are happening in Boston right now could be largely offset by not just joining the G.I. S. I would argue that the real issue is giving municipal officials the power and the authority to manage their benefit much like the Group Insurance Group Insurance Commission does for state

employees. So it's not simply join the G.I. see and you'll save this money. My argument is if you want to join the G.I. seat that's fine that should be an option. But also if you want to manage the benefit so that you can control costs and by that I mean the cost shift an increased co-payments and change the way that the benefits provided. I'll give you a perfect example. If you miss a pallet he wants to change the way it appears it's drugs so that under a tiering system you pay more for a brand name drug than you might for a generic drug. If they want to move people so that they take more generics and less brand which is a proven saver and does not affect quality of care they have to negotiate those changes. I would argue that that that's getting down into the weeds of a benefit design that I don't think the authors of the original collective bargaining provisions in the state in the state law envisioned and I think that's what it's getting through at this point. Now if you were a municipal employee and member of a union and you have a different perspective please give us a call 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. We are speaking

with Bob Kerrey of R. L. Carey consulting who completed a study for the Boston Foundation recently looking at the health care cost savings that could happen for municipalities if they join the group insurance commission plan. What was most surprising because you were you've articulated it you were most surprised by what the results of this study. I think I was most surprised by the fact that. For example Boston and Cambridge sitting side by side drawing from one would argue a common labor pool had. There was significant difference in the amount of savings that Boston would achieve versus Cambridge. Yet they have very comparable benefits and this got to the issue of Boston does not require its retirees who are eligible for Medicare to join Medicare thereby giving up literally millions of dollars that are not in the benefit design but simply in who pays for the benefit whereas Cambridge requires their retirees to sign up for Medicare. So just that one difference in that it

does not need to be collectively bargained in that it just to me I still do not understand why cities and towns don't require as the state does. Don't require their retirees to sign up for Medicare thereby saving cities and towns literally millions of dollars in staving state taxpayers as well. Well Bob Kerrey you're not running a town so maybe not vulnerable to political pressure. But Mayor Robert Del Rose it is so. Thank you for joining us and I want to get your take on this you decided that this makes sense for you the Group Insurance Commission to say it doesn't only make sense for the taxpayers of ours it makes sense for employees. You know what poison fighting many both public and private sectors their cost for health care is more than they get. It raises and that's what we found we talk to our employees. We found that the increases from Blue Cross Blue Shield that were outpacing the small raises we were able to give them in a city like Mellers is 97 percent residential

predominantly small our largest business is Johnny's food master in our suburban Boston community. They looked at it as not only a way to save jobs. And by the way these jobs that are being reduced because of state aid cuts in the economy are not coming back. If ever for a very long time there are certain realities that in effect they were getting behind in their own lives so this is a way for them to control their own costs which it is at a much smaller scale in terms of pay and also save their jobs that would in the future and save taxpayers money. I see as does any family plan I see $100 more a month in my paycheck for moving to the GRC. So that's pro-family impro employee and pro-business. The unions that I've talked to would be against plan design. They're saying this is anti-union this is pro job pro-family pro future. Because of these jobs as I said before I'm not coming back in this Do economy and we have to change. Are thinking

about how we're going to move but it's about all of these forward in the future because my citizens not voting for the override should they or should they. One pragmatic change is as proven by Bob's support aren't being implemented in what mayors are saying is shame on the state house for hiding behind union representation when they're really sticking it to and not providing the same protection for the people that work for them. Professors at universities state police and BT have implemented to balance this year's budget plan design that impact those families. Give us the same tools the taxpayers and mayors are sick of a double standard of rules one for legislators and one for taxpayers and local officials. And you know the electorate is getting angry over a number of things in the mayors want to bring this to the fourth forefront because we can create a health care plan with the Gee I see what you claim isn't because it doesn't work with any everyone that can give our employees fair if not exceptional health benefits at a much lower rate.

Who wouldn't do that. What was the tipping point for you that helped you come to the decision to buy into group insurance commission. Well you know anyone can see that in Melrose our health increases over the last five years have been averaging over 14 in some cases over 20 percent a year with Blue Cross and Blue Shield. We couldn't control them. That is more money than I bring in taxation of you so I'm going to my taxpayers think every dime you pay in new taxes isn't going to your library your kid's school your public safety it's going to pay for health benefits. We're also laying off employees at a frightening clip shutting down two elementary schools shutting down to the Free Fire Stations of the city. So you know I was lucky I was able to sit with a group of union heads led by the teachers because the issue I had to get to 70 percent which is almost impossible to get it was the T. Bringing 52 percent of the vote to the table that we're willing to listen to me this is not an easy debate for union membership because it's complicated health insurance is

complicated it's complicated for the president the Congress it's complicated for everyone you just want to go to the doctor and have it covered. So they were willing to spend that time. But the fact is we shouldn't as mayors and taxpayers have to spend eight months of negotiation $5 co-payments or tiered systems or pragmatic changes that still provide optimal health benefits. I have a 1 year old and a 3 year old and a wife with a manageable but chronic serious health condition. I go to the doctors a tremendous amount. I was concerned about this program. But once you are educated about the program what you talk about the thousands of public employees that are on it and how satisfied they are as well as countless teachers who in many cities they moved to the GSE upon retirement with best teachers. This is the ultimate pragmatic response not only in bad times but of good times and for it to be hindered by boutique legislation crafted in my opinion by a few powerful politically influential

unions is really at the forefront of why people are so angry with Beacon Hill right now. Bob Kerrey there must be a reason that unions are opposed to this and I guess we're going to get to it after this break. I really want to get both of your takes about. I mean you know there is a reason they fought for those benefits as a reason why they're saying you can't take them back from us right now so let's have that discussion when we come back. We're talking about the cost of health care to cities and towns across the bay state with Kerry of Kerry consulting. And Mayor Robert Dolan of Melrose listeners we want to hear from you. Are you a municipal employee. How do you feel about joining the state's plan. Are you afraid your health care will change. Give us a call at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 seventy 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. We'll be back after this break stay with us. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Huntington Theatre Company

presenting the new comedy Stick Fly by Lydia Diamond a smart and funny portrait of a complex African-American family on Martha's Vineyard. Now Playing through March 28. Huntington Theatre dot org and from our HCI the rehabilitation hospital of the Cape and Islands committed to helping its patients get home and back to life after illness injury or surgery. You can get stronger faster at our HCI details at our HCI dot org. And from the foundation for Chinese performing arts presenting pianist Chung's ong in celebrating 60 years of stage performance with an all Schubert program at Harvard Sanders Theater March 12th at 8 p.m. free student tickets available at Chinese performing arts dot net. Hi I'm Brian O'Donovan and this Saturday March 2. I'll be hosting the fifth annual presentation of the St. Patrick's steak health explosion at Sanders Theatre at Harvard University an evening filled with incredible live music dance and plenty of good cheer. I hope you can join us. WGBH members can purchase tickets at a 15 percent discount. Security online at WGBH dot org

slash Celtic. This is Brian O'Donovan. Don't miss weekends on the new eighty nine point seven. We've got a whole new line up of public radio's favorite weekend voices. Hello and welcome to This American Life. This is NPR's ON THE MEDIA. I'm broke down and at a new time Saturday afternoons at 3:00. Flavor along with the staples you've always loved here on the new eighty nine point seven. WGBH. In sign up to win a complete DVD library courtesy of the 20 most. Right here at WGBH Boston complete rules of entry available online at WGBH dot org. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just tuning in we're talking about the toll that the rising cost of health care is having on

cities and towns throughout Massachusetts. We're joined by Bob Kerrey. He wrote a report for the Boston Foundation which outlines how Boston Cambridge Melrose and Marshfield are managing the costs of medical coverage. We're also joined by Mayor Robert Dolan of Melrose Melrose recently opted into the state's health care system. And also Mayor Dolan is a part of a coalition of 20 mayors and municipal officials who formally launched yesterday a plan to move the legislation what that would change the way the municipalities are paying for health care right now for their employees. Before the break the mayor was giving a quite quite impassioned plea about the need for this and why the change. But Bob Kerrey I want to ask you of RL consulting. Why are unions opposed then. I mean the mayor makes a very compelling argument. Well the from the union's perspective they have currently right under state law to negotiate any change in their health benefits and they would be giving up that

right so it from you know were a union member I could understand the argument that they're making. On the other. And I do think that there is there is a way to structure some type of compromise that would for instance establish the state plan as the floor and so that you know that the municipality could not reduce the benefits below the value of what the state plan provided to state employees that would at least provide them with some protection what I've heard from union folks who still talk to me is that they are concerned that obviously giving up a right that they say they've traded off wages over the years well that's an important point right. Yes it is. Well how do you answer that. Yeah well I think that you answer it by providing some type of floor. You also answered by pointing out that the city of Somerville is paying one out of every five dollars in taxes goes to support municipal employees health insurance. That is not sustainable when you're paying close to 20 percent of your revenues

in health benefits for employees it's like the old story about GM it really was a health insurer that happened to make cars. I mean these are the cities and towns are becoming health plans that happen to also provide police and fire. And I think at a certain point and I think we're at that point you have to change the rules and change the dynamic that's going on between between health care and pensions. Intentions will make the health care debate look small. And as cities carry these unsustainable enormous pension liabilities after losing in some cases a third of their pension funds in the great crash that we've all experienced over the last two years. This is a combination that is so devastating to basic services for children and trickles down to employees that this isn't talking about being unsustainable in the future this is unsustainable right now. We're at that point we've talked about it now for how many decades this is unsustainable in

the future and often will today's the future. This is Mayor Delane who is speaking now of Melrose Medellin and Bob Kerrey in a moment I'm going to bring in Rocco Longo from Marshfield. But. Didn't want to mention this I found this letter online which is written by John Kauffman a Blue Cross Blue Shield who says the GI I see is quote no panacea for lowering costs. The towns would end up in fact spending more and this is part of the letter the group insurance commission has come to be seen as an economic safety valve that could use its bulk buying power to save money for cities and towns. The only hitch bulk buying power does very little to lower the cost of health care. Now he goes on to suggest that the way to work this is that each town gathered very specifically aimed at how many doctors the doctor visits etc. etc. and built a plan around that which would suggest that each town then needs a very kind of targeted plan and not one that would work under the Group Insurance Commission. Anyway he believes that the costs would be dramatically reduced by designing these specific town plans what he's talking about his plan as I'm trying is a very qualified good many of something

in the game obviously you know Blue Cross Blue Shield is not in the GRC. But if people had planned design with the mayors this coalition is not about the GHC it's about plan design. OK if I was a lot of places I might still be with Blue Cross Blue Shield which many of my employees want to stay with. I'm happy and I have heard are tough. But many of our employees have been a Blue Cross Blue Shield for 30 years wanted to stay there but they couldn't because a plan isn't clear is why. Is it your get that that 70 percent vote. Yeah I would like to think oh it's impossible so right. It's also provides more choices Clinton also provides more choices for employees because of by widening the opportunities in front of us also the GRC does have a management should management structure in this in which there are union representatives on the GRC board that any plan design changes has to be have to be voted on by that board which has clear representation from both management management and labor. It is a model that could be followed as we move on.

OK let me get in rock along. Who's the town administrator of Marshfield rock a longer welcome thank you for interesting discussion. Yes now you are not in the plan. So what are your thoughts about what we've been discussing thus far on Iraq. Rational is not likely to join the JIC primarily because about 55 to 70 percent of our employees have Blue Cross and Blue Shield. And yes we're talking about right now OK. But also there's you and probably wouldn't want to join and I'd agree that it's not the panacea for all of our issues. I think that the big issue and what came out in that study which didn't really get reported haven't enough is what's being discussed as having the right the plan decide OK if. We have the right to plan design we. We could save those costs and we're not going to do things that are that are too radical but just follow what other entities are doing we can't be too. We know we couldn't change a program to drastically but we do need to make changes in for example

Matia a co-pay still $5 that's embarrassing because you know when it's going to give some legitimacy for people attacking town government town of poison and we don't want that in the plan design is a simple thing. But I don't think is is this drastic to the unions as they're saying because there's a double standard. The state doesn't negotiate with the state employees but the state wants to make a law for the towns to negotiate with employers so there's there's a kind of a double standard. Now once again why are they why are the unions not in favor of are not are lukewarm about plan design just you know why is that tough for municipal allergies like yours. Well you know I'm not sure all of them are I mean I think it depends on the culture in the community and stuff but I mean I think ultimately what's Instead it is true that you know there's been a history of issues where there's been zero increases in all those kinds of things. But but the way it is right now I mean that is you know our budgets are so devastated you know we're talking about laying off firemen and then wash in other cuts that are that are pretty

significant the schools are really being hit very hard and you can't ignore the problems and this is one thing where you know the cost savings with a plan designed such as saves the employee's money as well as the town where a 50 50 community we don't pay 80 percent of the benefit the county's 50 percent the employee base 50 percent so any savings is is is is equal and you know I don't I don't see it as that radical but you know the unions would have to speak with themselves but I'm not sure in every community that would be such a drastic measure. OK. But Carrie what would be a prescription for Marshfield if the DNC is not an option and you know and what would you suggest. Well I think that Marshall should should decide what's best for Marshfield employees. Again I just I guess I would echo the mayor's argument that they should be provided plan design of which one option could be joining the JIC perhaps and you know down in Plymouth County. Blue Cross network is stronger than some of the other networks of the plans that are available through the group insurance commission so maybe it makes sense for

Plymouth County in Marshfield in part of a group so when we talk about group purchasing power Marshfield already part of a larger group and you know with regard to John Kaufman's comments as far as the JIC not being the panacea he's correct. Now also I would argue that we don't need a town by town tweaking of plan design that adds to the cost of the health care system. We're trying to reduce it through simplification and you know if you talk to physicians and doctors they get frustrated because you know the patient comes in and it's a $5 co-payment patient B comes in and it's a $15 an you know it just the that the administrative burden on physicians and insurers to then. Adjudicate the claims based on the fact that Marshfield gets one plan and Plymouth gets another plan just because it's an official it is an official and to reste Murray has said of the state legislature that she believes it. If all these municipalities do want to see then it adds staff and if they want to targeted then you're

really talking about a lot of inefficiency rocka Lango and I'm going to ask each of you this What is this. This discussion that we're having here. What are the implications for the national health care debate. I mean what can we take from that. Well I mean I think it's unique I think in that Massachusetts is a little unique in the way we you know we're one of the states to have to mandate health insurance. And so I think it's a little different and I think it's going to I think nationally you know it's an issue that has trends for the past how many years 10 years we've had double digit increases and it's going to have to be addressed and in our case there's a big issue in my opinion that deals with these this plan design. But I want to go back and talk about Marshall in the sense that we do belong to a group from that county group and if the legislature couldn't get a plan designed on a local basis maybe for a group like marshals where we belong to Plymouth County and we have union representation on the board maybe they can. Look at that as a different option than than doing individual planned lines for each community.

Mayor Dolan of Melrose. What would you say are any implications for the national health care debate if at all about health care. It's all about jobs or you know getting people back to work in health care costs or preventing them from from companies from hiring from municipalities and government is probably the country's biggest employer I know it is in Melrose in the most composed communities. We need to get people back to work the only way to do that is to tweak and manage fixed costs in our city fixed cost equals pension systems because unemployment equals worker's comp equals health benefits. Unless we can take a pragmatic approach that is not anti worker but anti job to assist create sustainable jobs to allow taxpayers to feel good about where those dollars are going. This has got to be changed or the jobs that we're losing in Marshfield in dollars and throughout the commonwealth. Good paying jobs with good wages are gone forever. So the economy local economy is based upon jobs and this issue is not corrected. There's going to be less jobs less families mean less stability in our commonwealth.

Actually you have you've hit on something that I've been puzzled about with regard to the national national health care debate which is why that is not linked to jobs people keep separating jobs about job health care and I don't get that at all it doesn't make sense to me. Bob Kerrey what would you say the implications I would say the implication is that this gets to the question of how you engage consumers in decisions about their health care. If you have a health benefit in which even if you're paying 50 percent of the premium if you have zero co-pay for imaging. We just read in today's Globe about the explosion in imaging costs. Part of that is because I would argue that the the consumer doesn't quote unquote pay for the imaging at the point of service most plans don't include a co payment for an MRI. Jesse plans do. So perhaps that person might think twice. Do I really need this MRI when it's free quote unquote. There's no sort of incentive or disincentive to question being referred for an MRI or an extra test and so I would argue until you begin to engage consumers and that means that they pay at the point of

service that is going to have to. That would be the point at which you begin to affect change in cost in the system. And right now there's so many of the people who are engaged in these plans as they have them now. Are not paying high premiums or not paying high co-pays so they're not. Even if they are paying they're not feeling it in the way that you think would make people pay attention. Yeah from their perspective there is no problem with the health care system they have a great benefit. They pay minimal if anything co-payments So why are you trying to change anything and I think that you know the big argument in DC part of it was this tax on Cadillac insurance and you know you saw who argued against that was the unions who have these Cadillac insurance plans so I do think at some point you have to you know call it as you see it and I think that getting the unions to the table and some of these issues may change the dialogue. Mayor Della do you think you're going to see a lot of people in your coalition step up to the plate. Yeah I do I think this is the final moment I think this is also a small revolution that's going to be overly dramatic but local officials of where the line is drawn we deliver the

services that affect people in our future the most. We are tired I have to say it most of us all collectively being Democrats this Jul rule system I think we stand with taxpayers that are sick and tired of a separate set of rules. The legislators including the new ethics laws which we have to follow and take the test and pay the overtime of they don't have to do it. It's again and again and again a separate set of rules for them on Beacon Hill and us on Main Streets. And it isn't us because we want to save people's jobs and provide services. I have to say Mayor DOLAN You don't seem very afraid. I mean a lot of people don't want to say this kind of stuff out loud because this is very this is a hot button subject and you get caught up in anything to do with health care these days and well let me just say I have three job openings in there for people that haul trash the most difficult job probably there is and we've gotten one hundred and seventy applications in two days.

People in their 60s kids that went to college. We're in desperate times and it is sad to see some of these people with families filling out applications for tough a good job but a tough job this is a crisis and the people on Beacon Hill don't get it. And if this puts me in the back of the bus on Beacon Hill they can't do much more for me than they are already doing which is little. We've got to change this commonwealth and we got to change local government are the discussions going to be even worse next year. ROCCA Longo you heard what the mayor had to say. Melrose are you in the same position and does this mean that you believe that some of the people in this coalition are going to step up in the way that Mayor Dolan has. I think his energy and enthusiasm is really needed for the issue and he did make me think that the same thing happened in Washington where we had just the part I'm 19 now or clerical position and we have 50 applicants most of them with. Most of them with backers in advanced degrees that you wouldn't typically see those people applying for a low paying clerical part time jobs. So yeah but that kind of energy I mean not we can't let

this die just this debate has to go on until it comes to summer. Currently I'm jealous because leaders Democratic candidates talk and I'm a Democrat out of it talking about working families and working families. Let's put some families back to work. Yeah we're not doing it. This is how you do it. Unfortunately everyone has to give a little. Bob Kerrey last word. If there is no movement if the coalition does not get any movement on this what are we looking at next year. Well I think we're looking at you know Groundhog Day because the there is not only is there not any type of change in the growth in premiums tax revenues are not coming back to where they were two three four years ago. And the state already is talking about a 5 percent cut in local aid even if it's held harmless next year just the growth in other types of costs are going to start to crowd out. And if you don't get your head or your arms around the health insurance issue and try to begin to address it

you know at what point do you say you know enough is enough and I think that the mayor is correct that it is reached now is the future. Well I think that's going to do it and I thank you all for a very very vigorous conversation. Robert Dolan is the mayor of Melrose Bob Kerrey is the owner of Perry consulting. Rocco Longo is the town administrator of Marshfield. Thank you all for joining us. Coming up a look at the Boston Public Libraries made in Massachusetts Film Festival. We'll be back after this break. Stay with us. With. With the.

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I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show this month the Boston Public Library is rolling out a made in Massachusetts Film Festival. Here with me to talk about talk through the roster of Baystate flicks is Paul Sherman. He is the absolute expert on all things Massachusetts and cinematic and the author of Big Screen Boston from Mystery street to the departed and beyond. Paul Sherman welcome. Thank you Kelly. Great to be here. I never even heard of mystery street so let's just start there you know everything about this. Well mystery street is a movie from one thousand forty nine thousand nine hundred fifty was really the first time Hollywood came here and really integrated Boston and Cambridge into a story it's a smarter mystery. Ricardo Montalban plays this cop on the Cape who who finds a skeleton in the sand and they come to Harvard and these it's very like pre. Is it CSI. They come to Harvard of these forensic scientists and they sort of discover who the body is and they

investigate the crime in their stuff on Beacon Hill or some stuff in Charlestown and it's a good movie and it's also some interesting old glimpses of stuff that you know look totally different now. Now the way you describe it it seems to me to fit all the criteria that you use to define a film that's really made in Massachusetts. Tell us about this. That's right it's set here. It's shot here and ideally the local landscape plays a role in the story. OK. One of the ones that you really like is a movie that called the Friends of Eddie Coyle. Here's the trailer from this film which is hailed as the ultimate Boston movie. The 1973 classic starring Robert Mitchum in the world of Eddie Coyle and his friend the real world of crime cop. All right but I mean for me criminals cannot survive without. Hurting.

Here's what I want and I want to MRI my dog. But with the money the same way we did with the money. You know it was a damn good viewing. I'll be looking for you know find you. Now that seems to have it all as you say including a lot of pretty good accent. Well yeah Robert Mitchum he does. He has this ability in this movie to sort of do this Boston accent play this Boston working class guy and still be Robert Mitchum So you kind of get the best of both worlds. Now a lot of the best movies they always have some sort of Boston link whether it's you know Ben Affleck somebody who grew up here in this case it's based on a novel by George VI Higgens who was a prosecutor. And this was his first novel and he really had this great knowledge about how the world of law the world of crime how each little world worked and how they interrelated with each other. And he also did this on Polish. Uncredited polish of the script. So from what I can find out he was sticking all these things

from the book back in and it ends up with this really gritty movie that was never on home video until about a year ago. That's great so we should all definitely. That's when we should look for. It's a definite rediscovery. Now what I liked is one of the comments you made in your book is that Boston people when filmmakers try to make a feature film about Boston they sometimes go to a shorty and about what they believe is either the character of the city which we had explained well well it's sort of the Freedom Trail version. Yeah I think the prime the prime movie that does that is is a movie that isn't good anyway but it's Mrs Winterbourne with Brendan Fraser at some point Brendan Fraiser and Ricki Lake they're having this conversation and they take this walk and it's like suddenly they're in front of the Paul Revere House suddenly they're in front of the state house that sort of thing is very postcard you know just on the surface. Now I happen to like that it was a stupid movie but I haven't liked that movie because I like Ricki Lake. But you also talk about how it means if somebody says Boston film likely they mean prim

proper or stuck up. Yeah that was that was sort of in the old days when when when you found out that a character was from Boston or that's how they were described. I was very struck a very prim very Goody Two-Shoes. Now before we go to the ultimate stereotyping of Boston which is the whole excellent question I do want to mention that the oil film that you just noted is being the ultimate is not on the roster at the BPL lineup. Why is that. That's a good question. I mean some of these they're doing it. It's a really ambitious series of last the whole year. There's a lot of choices that I don't really think merit because somehow that I'm on tell me what you really think about it. What do you know some of them. I don't know exactly how they did their research but there are some of the movies that morning really shot here looking at my list here. Well the movie that they're actually showing the next on the list is just cause it has one little exterior shot of Harvard Square that I don't think involve anybody from the cast being there.

It's not a Boston movie to me. And some of these other ones some of these older ones I think Captains Courageous and Moby Dick Dick I think they just have kind of exterior stock footage if that. My my my kind of cutoff point was if if the cast wasn't here and you didn't film them in Boston and it didn't really it didn't really come off as a boss movie. Well it makes sense to me. Yeah I have to say all right we got to get into the whole excellent question and in the film Gone Baby Gone you know definitely was there. This is Amy Ryan the actress playing Helen McCready a beleaguered mother in the 2000 film Gone Baby Gone. I don't know take care. Of me had been a mother. Now I thought that was good. Yeah she was she did her homework definitely. And she you know these it's based on Dennis Lane's book and Dennis Lange books this sort of this cross of Southie and Dorchester and mad upin And she you know she could hop on

the you know the Magic Pan readline extension and nobody would think she was an actress. There you go researching what your criteria for a good Boston accent. Well you know it just doesn't it can't really be so noticeable so bad that it could just kind of pulls you out of the movie. Know that stuff. Yeah and just I think maybe the worst one is Diane Lane and perfect story and you know speaking of that why don't we take a listen to a scene from the film The Perfect Storm and here's Diane Lane and Mark Wahlberg discussing his decision to work on the doomed commercial fishing vessel the Andrea Gail the movie The Perfect Storm. Come. To. Think of the. Cuts. To. The movie sell the clothes. Most nights weekends. Efforts. Externalism it's on the way.

Back up. Listeners Paul Sherman can barely stand and listening to that one actually wasn't you know in the relative scheme of things that I movie that wasn't so bad usually she's just got it cranked up to 11 on overdrive the whole time. But you know that that was you know didn't make me totally wrecked. OK you know what. It was horrible so we're going to listen to both of them back to back here here's Amy Ryan with the good one. And Diane Lane is with the bad one and I'll let the listeners as I don't got no day care. She really had been a month. To come. To. Think of it. Let's see. Who lives in South Dakota. What nights we come on Paul. So the cat was very that was a lesson for most of us who

are just vaguely aware I mean even if you're not from Boston you sort of know there are a couple of films that are associated with Boston I think in recent years. One of course would be Goodwill Hunting which featured Matt Damon who is from the area as well has been Affleck who's from the area both of them are for gay marriage and I think we can all agree this is good I'm going to let people hear just a little clip from Good Will Hunting. You. Have a. Better. Way out here. I want a way out if I'm going to live in the rest of my life. You know the neighbors you know have little kids taking over the lead to gather up all the fields. It's all rot you know. What do you think about the Goodwill hunting in general as a film made in Massachusetts. Well that was kind of Boston's coming out movie I think you know that that kind of that and some of the smaller boobies made Boston kind of viable movie location and showed what could be done and

then you know sort of kept the momentum going for people like Clint Eastwood Mystic River and Martin Scorsese with the departed so and now that was just a huge movie and it was a big hit and that always helps if the movie is good and it's a hit and people like it in that it makes the city come off in a good light. Well which brings me to this point you know recently there was a hearing at the White House about you know about this this camp that's being proposed by the Patrick administration which would cap the tax incentives that filmmakers have enjoyed from one hundred twenty five million to 50 million and then only offer those to a first come first serve basis what's going to be the impact. Well I think what you're seeing in the last few years is that the movies are coming here because of the tax break. You have movies this is a good thing. Yeah you have movies that are being shot here that are set in Alaska. There was a Sandra Bullock movie. You have movies like Pink Panther 2 which were witches in Paris and they're shooting stuff in Boston and those movies are going to come here if if the deal isn't right

so I can't see the merits of of doing away with that because basically it's you know it's not going to mean that these movies are still going to come here if the financial benefits aren't there and you know Kyra all these local crew people and spend money at hotels and restaurants. And what I appreciate about your book is that you spend some time talking about how long a struggle it's been to get films made in Massachusetts right. Right Hollywood is has usually hated lost and I've been you know the weather's terrible it's 3000 miles away from Hollywood. It's probably hard for them to find crews so you know it's not easy take them here and this tax break is the thing that's done in the last few years. One of the things I appreciate about the book was something I didn't know which is the impact of some local filmmakers doing kind of their own films not features some dock some kind of in-between small features right we could call it and you dub these bean streets movies and say that this

these movies have had a great impact on the film scene here. Talk about yeah I think you can you can you can kind of chart it from a series of movies a Boston trilogy by a filmmaker in Cambridge called John Eagleson starting in the late 70s and he really took a lot of the momentum and a lot of the technological breakthroughs the documentary filmmakers some of them working in this very building had had innovated and he went out on the streets with. Teen actors who are not professionals. And he made these these really gritty stories that are really very involving and really very well done. And his second movie one of the supporting cast members is 8 year old Ben Affleck. There you go. And these movies are very socially conscious I think they had an influence on what you saw in Good Will Hunting about the politics of that movie. So it's almost like you know it's like a circle and it comes around and if you look at what's happened since

Good Will Hunting and what's happened in film production locally you know it kind of dates back to these movies that few people saw in the late 70s and early 80s. And I would be remiss if I didn't highlight what you have mentioned in your book as well as which is the richness of the documentary filmmaking. You're Frederick Wiseman and their old Norris and Ross MCKELWAY but also my former boss Henry Hampton of black yet incorporated. And you know to a couple of documentary films by my former colleagues the connection you have not made in your book is that Genie Jordan with troublesome Midwestern and Lori Kahn Levitt of Tupperware both worked in blacks that really me. OK. And Henry Hampton so you can do that in your revised edition. OK and I think we can all agree that one film that definitely put Boston and Massachusetts on the map was this one. It's the 1970 thriller 1975 thriller jaws. Live just to kill a mindless eating machine. It will attack and devour. Anything. I

am just as if God created the devil. Peace and. Joy. Goodness. It's fair to say that film a little hair on my chest. It's a little scary you know it's you know yeah it still works and it's still getting the kind of attention that the fact that it was made in Massachusetts on Martha's Vineyard. I'm there every summer and it's all part of the tours it's clear. So Paul some of the most surprising thing you found in doing your research for this book. Well I think it was something that we talked about. We just talked about which is that these little drop in the bucket movies. A You know you kind of think of it like the way an earthquake creates a tsunami and it takes a little while and maybe the tsunami is bigger than the earthquake and these little movies John Eagleson movies Billy in the lowlands dark end of the

street really were the first ambitious movies that showed people that they could go on the streets and make a movie in Boston and from time to time other people have have taken up that challenge for varying degrees of success and notoriety. And just the fact the that those movies can can start this chronology that goes up to even you know Shutter Island which is in theaters now. Yeah. Which is a Dennis Lehane book which is. You know he had most of his books are set in the streets of Boston but not this one. It's just a real letter. Yeah it's just real it just goes to show what a little not even a movement can grow into. What piece of trivia would people be most surprised to know about you have a quiz that back your book. Yeah it's great but what's one piece that you could offer us. Well I'll pull out something that your producer Chelsea found very amusing which is that in the movie starting over with Burt Reynolds and Jill

Clayburgh and Candice Bergen there's a scene in which Burt Reynolds goes and buys a mattress and it's in the building 19 on the laneway and Lynne which you know adds nothing to your enjoyment of the movie it's just a weird thing to now. All right well I have to ask every anybody who does this kind of work. What's your favorite I know that's hard but what's your favorite film in this book that you've highlighted all the films made in Massachusetts well ones. Yeah I think the friends of Eddie Coyle. OK is the one that has it on many levels that has the authentic. Atmosphere it has a great performance. It has the presence of George VI Higgens who's who's really kind of forgotten. And it also it has this kind of mystique because like I said it wasn't readily available until a while ago and it's undergoing this resurgence in popularity. So I think that's that's the one it's just a cool story and again a cool job and it will always be a good movie.

How long would it take you to put this book together. Well I had a head start I covered a lot of these movies as a freelance journalist and but once I did it about a year. OK well I got to say it's fabulous. I think the Boston Public Library ought to have you on speed dial. Yes. So Paul Simon thank you for joining us thank you Kelli. He is the author of Big Screen Boston from Mystery street to the departed and beyond Make sure you read it. You can catch the made in Massachusetts Film Festival at the Boston Public Library which runs throughout the year. Visit BPL dot org for more information. Now we're going out on an Oscar award winning song from the Thomas Crown Affair also shot in Massachusetts windmills of your mind sung by Noel Harrison. This is the Kelly Crossley Show today's program was engineered by Alan Matheson produced by Chelsea mirrors our production assistant is an a white knuckle beat. We are a production of WGBH radio Boston's NPR station for news and culture.