NOVA; To the Moon; Interview with Theodore Sorensen, speechwriter and adviser to President John F. Kennedy

You That's how does the name spelled yours? Yeah, all right, but it's it's spelled S-E-N it ends in S-E-N and so far all your letters to me have spelled S-O-N and I don't want and I don't want I don't want no don't worry about that I just don't want the caption right whatever you have on TV that right what was the people were worried about their jobs in Macon or NASA did they need to worry did Kennedy

have a vision for space John F. Kennedy's initial interest in space was less on the substance and details of the program than on what it symbolized for America's position in the world there was to all appearances a Soviet lead in the exploration of space whatever the NASA scientists and others said was the importance of our scientific research that didn't matter when the Soviets dramatically captured the attention of the world and gave the world the impression that the Soviets were far ahead of us in technology science engineering all of which could affect military power economic power and which direction these third-world countries should go when after he'd been in office the honeymoon was over the Bay of pigs had happened a garrin flu what was his reaction to that Kennedy recognized immediately that the Soviet success in

putting a man into orbit was tremendous he congratulated Khrushchev he recognized that we had a lot of catching up to do if we were ever going to prevent a Soviet lead in space that could have dangerous military implications such as a military occupation of space by the Soviet Union and then he said to work that morning Jim Webb the head of NASA brought into Kennedy and placed on his desk what he said was a model of our future space capsule Kennedy told me afterwards he just laughed it looked like something from a science fiction toy store like a Rube Goldberg contraption that could never get off the ground like some of our space rockets and not gotten off the ground he asked

me even though I was certainly no scientist or technician to try to pull together those components of the government that could evaluate where were we going in space how could we achieve his goal that the US become number one not just in a game who's number one and who's number two but who would impress the rest of the world as being the real leader in the science of space exploration who would be considered a power for economic military scientific development purposes and when could we go to the Soviet Union and say we're a player too why don't we explore space together what did he have an interest in what were the options what were some of the things that you found out we could do in this meeting which I chaired in my office we had representatives from NASA from the Bureau of the Budget and from the Science Advisory Committee chaired by Jerry Weasner and they said there were several next logical steps

somebody was going to put a man in space for a much longer orbit than Gagarin and next to somebody was going to put two astronauts or cosmonauts as the Soviets called them into a spacecraft then he thought maybe there would be an orbiting space laboratory something a lot more substantial than just a capsule then that might lead to a space station a permanent platform for military or exploration purposes then there was talk about sending up a exploratory photographic rocket that might go around the moon then there might even be a manned rocket that could get up could get up there and come back and there might even be a landing on the moon all this the Russian all this were the

logical next steps and each time I'm oversimplifying it now but each time I would say an effect can we be the first to do that can we be to the Russians to that the answer was no because the Russians had this much greater rocket power which they had developed because their missiles the nuclear warheads were much heavier than ours we had developed the lightweight hydrogen warhead so they had developed big rocket power big rocket thrust to to go with that and after the moon was you know exploration of the planets and so on finally when we said when I asked that question can we get there first on the manned lunar to landing actually landing a person on the moon bringing him back they said yes that is sufficiently far off and requires us so much research and development that is not yet not yet on the even on the drawing board that the U.S. could

probably if it started now I have a chance of eating the Russians to that that I knew Kennedy would be interested in hearing three Kennedy was immediately interested in this idea of a manned lunar landing after all he had campaigned for president the year before on the idea of getting American moving again on the fact that we could not afford to be trailing the Soviet Union in any aspect of national life or activity he had campaigned on the theme of new frontiers and if there was ever a new frontier that needed to be explored and conquered space was that frontier and he felt strongly that the Soviets having bested us so far at least in the eyes of most of the world with the Gagarin orbit trip that we had to find a way to galvanize our space

effort to get it moving to jump started to get it to focused and a moon landing he thought was a way of doing that anybody advised against what was Jerry Wiesner's reaction what was traditional science's reaction to going for the moon science was divided on the whole manned space effort they said you can do most of that with instruments you can waste an awful lot of money and experts scientists and technicians and engineers trying to do something more dramatic we don't really need it for our defense we don't really need it for our science Jerry Wiesner had warned the president in a transition between the inauguration and election inauguration report that we weren't going to beat the Soviets anytime soon probably not during his term in office and there was resistance from those who recognized what a tremendous amount of money and

talent would be swallowed by this effort to go to the moon Kennedy's reaction to that Kennedy's reaction as the best put forward in the speech he made at Rice University some months later was space is the new sea and we must sail upon it why climb the highest mountain why Lindbergh fly the Atlantic because that's the progress that mankind must make if our civilization is progress and now we must sail on the new ocean of space between that afternoon afternoon of the meeting that I held the day after they get guard and flight and his speech to the Congress in which he asked for authorization for the development of a program that would take us to the moon a lot of hard questions had to be asked and answered and Kennedy addressed those questions to the vice president to his chairman of the space council to

the secretary defense and to others tough questions about cost and fuel and resources in time now when shepherd flu and it was the very next day that we're shortly there after no no not the next one there wasn't well what's his reaction actually shepherds flat when shepherd finally flew and we got back we got into space Kennedy was delighted that shepherd's flight at least made us a player in the game we showed that we were in the ballgame but we knew we were far beyond there's shepherd could not be compared to Gagarin I know because I've interviewed shepherd before long before he died but he thought Kennedy was very enthusiastic he talked he'd taken them aside the astronauts some of the astronauts inside and said what do you think about going to the moon which they have never heard about before it's kind of sharing that had he made his mind up by

that he tentatively made his mind up on that very afternoon of the meeting that I reported on but he was a man who was prudent and until those tough questions that I mentioned earlier could be answered he didn't make up his mind until he committed himself by a speech to Congress following the famous meeting that we're talking about where everybody came together it's just the two of you alone in there you and you and Kennedy and then you came out later on he told you side we're going to go to the moon tell me that story what went on between the two of you and we're back in the big meeting the president wanted a report on the morning meeting before he is interview with a huge site of time magazine who was writing a story on the embarrassment the US have faced because of the Gagarin flight and there was a meeting with me to

review the findings of the morning's meeting then is meeting with you society then I resumed the discussion with Kennedy and he said I think we ought to try for the moon there are a lot of tough things we've got to figure out first but I think that would be the way to do it if we could do it so I left the meeting you was still standing outside I just smiled at him and said we're going to the moon that's great in the in the speech the address on urgent national needs the Kennedy delivery of May the 20th I need to know that you you wrote the speech but there's a single paragraph that that's that's remembered which is you know I think just put a man on the moon by the end of the decade return to save me was that the way the original paragraph read I really have no recollection of that at all because Bob Siemens remembers that he and

Jim I'm got a draft the letter about two days before that to review it and it said to to to try for a moon landing by 1967 I doubt that very much the one Kennedy knew that a lot of time research and development would be required before this could actually take place Jim Webb had said to him it can be done in 1968 your last year your second term in office what a triumphal way to end your presidency Kennedy was less certain about that normal planning they told him meant sometime in the mid 80s sorry mid 70s at best so finally the phrase agreed upon and I really don't remember the the origins of it the phrase agreed upon was in this decade to some people in this the new decade

to start a January 11970 technically it began January 11971 so there was a little fudge there and Kennedy just decided to keep that fudge great that's good first of all tell me there were a lot of things in the speech I was just one of them I need to understand that the speech contained many things so this was one among them normally a president addresses Congress once a year the state of the Union address and Kennedy had already given his state of the Union address in January of 1961 but then a lot of things happened most of them bad there was the fiasco at the Bay of Pigs there were Soviet inspired violence in the Congo and in Vietnam and elsewhere there was the Gagarin space flight people thought the United States was on the defensive Kennedy thought that he needed a

new answer a new position to set up to the nation and to the Congress what he was going to do about these crises so he had an effect a second state of the Union message what we call a speech on urgent national needs and in that speech he included the request for authority to go to the moon I didn't know that and realized that was the spray meter that speech now let's you'll answer the second the Kennedy knew was asking a lot that some people would laugh some people would criticize promising the moon was an obvious target for comedians and to his surprise when he gave the speech he thought he was getting very routine of flaws and not much enthusiasm from the congressman sitting there good speaker you know can sort of feel what's flowing back and forth whether you're getting support or not he felt he was not and he actually inserted some ex-temporaneous

words to try to tell them how important this was that we sail on this new sea that we get this lead that we protect ourselves in this new area of science and technology only time he ever did that in an address to the Congress I'd have to really make a very careful study of the speech to figure that out now how about the next day what kind of reaction do you remember did he get a reaction from the public or the Congress or anybody about his promise this idea I don't remember the valespin easy for you to look up yeah that's true well how did he feel the next day well he felt the same way the day before and the day after determined if if Kennedy were alive today looking back and Apollo had been as successful I think John have Kennedy today would be very proud and pleased that he went

ahead with this determination to land a man on the moon it was expensive there's no doubt about it it did defer other projects there's no doubt about it but it galvanized our space program so that we became the primary space power in the world we thereby prevented a Soviet occupation of space for military reasons we thereby showed the rest of the world the third world but new and independent countries trying to decide between the temptations of Soviet communism and our democratic capitalistic system which way to go we showed to them that the United States was the leader in all fields including science and technology let me get to that point specifically mr. Saransin at the time because as restants for younger audiences there was the there were the Russians there was our own sense of confidence but talked to me about the third world how important

was it to to to inspire the third world that that they could go either way the Cold War just as much as it was a military confrontation was an equally a political contest between the forces of democracy and freedom led by the United States and the forces of totalitarian communism led by the Soviet Union each side wanted to gain influence each side wanted to gain support in world contests whether at the United Nations or in some on some battlefield each wanted to spread its influence geographically economically and the Soviets approached this so-called third world the neutral countries mostly knew an independent little countries with all kinds of temptations and solicitations we don't have the the problems of the capitalist system has we can offer you this we can prove that and space was one of their weapons they said look at our lead in space look what we've been able to do in the exploration of space that

shows that we are not only as smart we're smarter than the Americans when it comes to science and technology and engineering join our ranks and you'll share in all this I hope you're going to get his rice university speech yes we have that okay you could close the book and put it back I'm going to ask you to grab that one more time I'll check and take there you go just keep holding it for a moment and then close it gently now if I just have you turn profile to me a moment looking at the book maybe

just open it right there in front of you and keep it on the table at it maybe leap of page or two turn the front pull the front flap up towards you so we can read Kennedy back there you go there is a there is a reference in the inaugural address which I have come across here let both sides meaning East and West U.S. and Soviets let us explore the stars together

that was about the Irish author who I think I mentioned I mentioned that in here who wrote that story who told that from his you know childhood history about running along and throwing the caps over the wall to make sure they had to climb over the wall again and he told the story later that same month how a neighbor had called him up or came running to talk to him oh did you hear the president of the United States used your story and he felt such joy and the next day the same neighbor came running to tell him the president of the United States had been killed and he felt such sadness

okay my pleasure appreciate your time all right appreciate your insight let us know when it appears this is room tone in the John Hobart chalk room blackboard room this is going to be wild sound exterior of the building where the Apollo one caps of the building this is going to be wild sound exterior of the building where the Apollo one caps is okay

sorry that's okay cut here I got an inch of sound cut here I got an inch of sound this is wild sound on the capsule building take two and wild sound and wild sound thanks