Harvard Book Store; WGBH Forum Network; Pornografia

And now it's my pleasure to welcome to the store denude a bar cart spent many years in practice is a clinical psychiatrist before turning her discerning eye to translation. Prior to pornographic translated to other works by Bitch cosmos and Verity dark the latter of which won her the 2001 national translation award and her own short stories have been published in Exquisite Corpse this new work the first translation of pornographic into English directly from the original Polish is perhaps her most ambitious yet Witold wrote this his last novel after fleeing Poland for Argentina and then watching the German invasion destroy his country. John Updike called a master of verbal Burlesque a connoisseur of psychological blackmail. He is one of the profoundest late moderns with one of the lightest touches and of her translation Kircus review says Burkhardt spins out a web of words that vibrate with unholy energy. After this evening's talk we will have time for questions followed by a signing here at this table. As always I'd like to thank anyone who purchases a copy of the book here this evening by doing so you're helping to

support both the local independent bookstore and this author series. And now please join me in welcoming to new job or hard. Welcome to you all for coming here. I was going to I was preparing the actual reading of the translation. But then I discovered on the announcement that I'm supposed to talk about the translation as such so I'm combining the two as best I can. First the general issues of translation that have come up for me. As I was as I was reading the pope Polish text versus the English of course I realized that the English is a wonderfully logical language one of word is totally related to the previous word and that's how you

get the meaning of what who is what's happening and who does what. In Polish this is achieved through grammar. So you know I'll just give you the hackneyed example of what happens in English if you don't follow the. Fixed order in English and English is a fixed order language polish is not quite so fixed an order language. She threw her son out of the train. A case well that doesn't make sense to well in English but in polish it wouldn't matter because the grammar tells you. What did she throw Who did she throw out of the train. The other issue that came up. And particularly in which he was the only one I've translated so many long sentences that have no verb in them in Polish You couldn't get by without without a verb in a sentence

but in English unless it's a literary device it doesn't really work for well. Another thing that was for example in Polish You can say skin skin push push through some skin flushed out sure some are in English. Were you in the. Who were you with or were you with in the theatre. Myself it doesn't quite ring as well. I thought you would have to say I was by myself or I was there alone you have to put in a verb now. When I began translating people were asking me well since you have been a psychiatrist you must have a great insight into his psyche and I said no absolutely not opposed to diagnosing people without talking to us.

To them the only way that my psychiatry experience has helped me was in the language actually because I worked with schizo FENECH patients and that loosened up my language which was required then for translating them broach. When we come first of all to the to the title of that I feel that I've each called it in Polish pornography. But it doesn't ring too well in present day nowadays so I'll read you what thoughts he had thoughts had actually on on the title. Don't worry about all these tabs these this is from some another project.

You should talk about. So he wrote pornography in Tina and this is what he said. The year was 1955 and as usual I began scribbling something on paper with uncertainty in ignorance in terrible poverty that had visited all my beginnings. I slowly became It slowly became rich intense and thus a new form emerged and you work a novel which I called pornography. At that time it wasn't such a bad title. Today in a few of the excess of pornography it sounds better now and in a few languages it was changed into seduction. When I'm translating pornography it will be other his other novels too. I have the feeling that I have to sort of true myself into the into the text in

Polish It's a free shift and if the text really know what's what's going on and. Some confusion can easily easily arise if if if you don't really really really get get into it. Now in Polish There is a sentence in pornography. I read it in Polish just just a little bit is yellow. Both score show Ben don't push to push what you call young. It will be on some posts because we had a nazi old post but caution squash to truly know it here let me do the same in English. He he he refers to he come I lost it.

Yes bitter and yes OK he only elbows course to bend them to push question in English and he exuded godliness wonderfully and chanting and agree and engaging as he was. So the translation as I understand it is they the godliness refers to him whereas in the previous translation the godliness is not understood that way. It's it's described not as he is the one who's being godliness so there can be confusion quite easily. Also the following word is in Polish is

LASKER which in the previous translation is a charm. TRANSLATOR This charm whereas I've translated into grace because what is happening is really setting in a church in a religious. It's a religious setting and there's no next word in fact is has in it the word miracle. So we're dealing with grace like godly benefit beneficence rather than charm. So these are the kind of confusions one can get into. Also. You know although I'm comparing those two to the previous translation you know I have a ration for people who have attempted to translate this text and just because I happen to know Polish and the other people per person translated it through another

language. You know the mistakes and omissions are inevitable. So I'm not downing the previous translations by comparing the two. But for example in the last paragraph of the book by a stranger an omission the word catastrophe is missing. So it's it's a bit upsetting. Now one has to be daring. You know when you translate it you have to be daring. And I had an interesting discussion with my editor at Grove who said in connection with the description of nightfall that was the word fluid which called it sauce. And so I wanted to call it sauce. Well after a little while he kind of he he agreed. Then I read the I read the actual

introduction of forward by by Sam Lipsyte who river first by coincidence to that very point and he says. And the old hatreds of the sudden the sudden expansion of the holes and corners that fills the thick flux of night. That's the previous translation. Fine says Lipsyte. It is a little vague but it's not a match for the intensification of nooks and crannies of that night's source was filling the night source is almost more than we deserve. So that was some sight. OK as far as far as the book itself is concerned. In pornography you'll find anything that you'd want in an exciting novel intrigue murder crime of sorts.

And but it has also a lot of very deep meaning about disintegrating values about all the people want to live there. Eroticism through younger people and so on and I'd like to read. What drove each actually said about. I'm fascinated always to hear to read what he has said about his own book. So in this novel this is come broach at this print fight. There is a desperate fight for the I don't wish fulfillment fulfillment with an easing of burden quality of youth that is light reckless irresponsible. I wish that is stronger the more it hits something that does not offer resistance in the finale. The 17 year old lightness deprives the criminals the sins of their

importance. The novel and fulfillment. No. Going broke each begun the book. By inserting something that he called information. And I'll just read you a little bit of that photograph that takes place in the Poland of the warriors. Why. Partly because the atmosphere of war is most simple appropriate to it. Partly because it is a very polish and perhaps it was initially conceived in the model of a cheap novel. I do not know the wartime Poland. I did not witness it after 1939. I never visited Poland. I wrote this as I imagined it. So it is an imaginary Poland. And don't you Ari that what I have written and is sometimes crazy sometimes perhaps fantastic. That is not the point and is of no significance at all

that matters happening here. The book In the beginning pages starts off what some people have called a pivotal scene in a little village church. The two the two main characters Witold and Derek have arrived in a country manor and a visiting couple there and they all do go to church. And here is the scene however I notice that they have not mentioned what to come Broadbeach says about about this. One of his main characters and that is for their IC because he keeps he is the man the main manipulator of things that happen and if he told the other characters sort

of drawn into these things. But to give you. I think I think it's a pretty nice description of what he says. Well I think I've given you enough I'll just go on with the scene. But anyway we'll hear about for Derek. The church ceased to be a church. A space had intruded but a space that was cosmic black. And this wasn't even happening on Earth but rather the earth had transformed itself into a planet suspended in the universe. Cosmos was here. This was happening somewhere in the on its territory to such a degree that the light of the candles and even the light of the day penetrating the stained glass windows became as dark as night. Thus we were no longer in church. In this village not even on Earth. But instead and in keeping with reality. Yes in keeping

with the truth we were somewhere in the course most suspended with our candles and our glitter. And somewhere in that vastness we were performing these strange things with ourselves and among ourselves like a monkey making faces in a vacuum. The bells rang for elevation for their commute. This time his new link had a crushing effect like killing a hen and the mass rolled on the struck mortally and babbling like a madman. And what triumph. What victory over the mass. What pride. As if its evolution was for me a long for ending of sorts. Finally I was alone by myself without anyone or anything but me alone in absolute darkness. So I have reached my limit and attain darkness. What then. The holy service was coming to an end. I looked around sleepily. I was

tired. We'll have to leave right home to Provo to. On the sandy road but all of a sudden my gaze my eyes my eyes panicky My eyes heavy. Captivating Glee temptingly. Yes but what what was attracting and luring me and Marvel as in a dream shrouded the places that we desire yet are unable to discern. And we see a circle around them with a mute cry with an all consuming longing that is heartbreaking exultant and chanted. I circled around like this still flustered hesitant yet already deliciously permeated by little subjugation and life subjugation that was captivating me and chanting charming tempting and conquering me. It sparkled and the contrast between that night's cosmic chill and the gushing gushing spring of bliss was so immeasurable that I thought dimly its God and a miracle.

God what a miracle. What was it. It was part of her cheek and the nape of her dick. It belonged to someone standing in front of us in the crowd. If you steps away. I almost choked. It was a boy a boy and realizing that it was just the boy. I began to rapidly retreat from my ecstasy because in fact I barely saw him. Just a little ordinary skin on the back of the neck on the cheek. Then he moved abruptly and this movement imperceptible pierced me through and through like an extraordinary attraction. And it did. How embarrassing. An ordinary 16 year old nape of a neck. With cropped hair and the ordinary skin of a boy somewhat chapped. And do you know position of the head. Most ordinary. So what was the origin of my in a trembling. What I saw contour of the nose the mouth and he turned his face slightly to the left.

There was nothing special I saw in the slant the slanting face of a boy an ordinary face. He was not a peasant a student an apprentice. An ordinary young face untroubled somewhat wilful friendly meant for chewing pencils with his teeth before playing football playing billiards and the color of the jacket was over his short shirt collar his nape was suntanned. It my heart was beating fast and he exuded godliness wonderfully chanting and engaging as he was in the boundless emptiness of this night. He was a source of breathing warmth and light grace and fathomable miracle. Frederick did three Derek know about it. Seed does his I catch it too. But all at once people began moving that mass came to an end a slow crowding toward the door ensued and I with the others. When you

walked ahead of me her back and her little nape still a schoolgirl's. And this was what it came to mind and when it did it took hold of me so strongly it linked up with Nick the other nick so efficiently that I suddenly understood easily in without effort this Nick and the other nick. These two next the two next were. How was it. What's this. It was as if the nape of her nick the girls was taking a run for and uniting itself with the boys Nick this nick as if taken by the scruff was taken the other neck by the scruff of the neck. Please forgive me the awkwardness of these metaphors says Rich. Her movement as they walked ahead of me in the crowd in the heated crush of people was also somehow relating to him and it was an ardent and hence meant whisper added to his movement so close by so close in this crowd.

Oh as they were walking together they looked they looked totally uninterested in each other. Oh such it is interesting falling in love and desire and heeding blind and moving on so company with the others. So that's why I now knew the secret within him that from this moment carried me away. He was for her she for him. Even as they stood thus at a distance not at all interested in each other. And this was so strong that in his mouth his mouth matched not only her mouth but her whole body and her body was subject to his legs. I know a lot happens with the two men and sort of colluding to entice the young couple Carol and into into their life. By the way as I'm reading this you

mention I will talk I was talking in the beginning about the translation if you see if anybody notices anything pertaining to the central translation as such will have a chance to discuss it later. Questions. Now we go on. I have chosen actually two episodes where there is plenty plenty of other things that are happening. Intrigue tragedy and so on but I've chosen two episodes that particularly linked to this theme of Witold and through Derek trying to entice the young couple into their life. So here's one of those episodes. Have I already mentioned that for smaller island separated by canals green with duckweed made up the Father and of the pond. Small bridges had been thrown over the canals Elena at the very end of the garden winding through a

thicket of hay of his own and bushes just means an arbor of it or allowed one to cross this archipelago soggy with standing water. Well walking there I imagined that one of the islands was not the same as the others. Why. A fleeting impression. But the garden had already been pulled into play too much to ignore this impression. However nothing that they had been hot and it was tea time. The canal was almost dry and listened with a crust of slime with its green of water. Brush was over growing the banks given our situation and the strangeness had to undergo immediate inspection. So I wondered what worked my way to the other shore. The little island breeze was heat. The grass was rampant to green at high abundant with ants and high about for the crowns of trees with their own closed off existence. I crept through the thicket and wait a minute wait a

surprise. There was a bench on the bench one yet was sitting with her incredible legs. One of her legs was short and in a stocking while the other wasn't there. All the Way above her knee. And this wouldn't have been so incredible Were it not for the fact that cutter. Like downed like in front of her on the grass also had one leg bare and his pant legs pulled up above his knee. He sure was nearby. A sock inside it. Her face was turned sideways. He was not looking at her his arm around his head on the grass. No no. All this would not have been so shocking perhaps if it had not been so incompatible with the natural rhythm. It was frozen strange or immobile as if it belonged did not belong to them. And those legs so strangely bared only one from each pair shining with their corporate ality in the humid hot

dampness interrupted by the splashing of frogs. He with her bare leg and she with her bare leg. Perhaps they had been wading in the water. No no. There was more to it. This was beyond explanation. He was the bare leg and she with her bare leg her leg moved slightly and stretched. She rested her foot on his foot nothing more. I watched. Certainly my top until stupidity became apparent. Oh oh how could I have been so naive. And for Derek too to think that there was nothing between them to be seduced by appearances. Here I had a flat refutation in front of me like a blow in the head. So it was here that they had been meeting on the island a gigantic scream liberating and satisfying resigned it scientifically from this place as that contact with maintained without motion without sound without even a

gaze because they weren't looking at each other. He weathered their leg. She with her bare leg well and good but this could not be. There was an artificial ality about it something disturbing something perverse. What was the origin of this torpor as if a spell had been cast. Where did the chill of the passion come from. For a fraction of a second second I had a totally crazy thought that this is how it should be that this is how it should be between them. That it was a real notes. And right away another thought came to me namely that was a funny game highlighting here a comedy perhaps they had somehow found out that I'd be passing through here and they were doing this on purpose for my benefit because indeed this seemed to be for my benefit. Exactly cut to the measure of my shame of my day dreaming about them. For me. For me. For me spurred on by this thought. That is for me. I tore through the bushes disregarding

everything and then the picture became complete. Through that Rick was sitting under a pine tree on a big pile of needles. This was for him. I stopped he on seeing me said to them. You'll have to repeat it once more. And then even though I had not yet understood anything the chill of young lasciviousness broke from them depravity. They didn't move their young freshness was terribly cold. For there it caught up to me. All gallantry. Oh how are you my dear Mr vetoed the greeting was unnecessary We had just parted an hour ago. What you say about that penny that is spent in mine and with a sweeping gesture he pointed in their direction. Not a bad performance what. Laughter was also unnecessary. And this is Siri. Whereas there's no fish a crawfish is as good as fish. I don't know if you are familiar with my

weakness for directing. I was also an actor for a while. I don't know if you are familiar with this detail of my biography. A man gets bored in this godforsaken country sorry one has to occupy oneself with something for the sake of health. Nothing if nothing else Mr V thought for health. And he was just talking loudly so I would resign. It would result in well I walking beside him and looking at the ground the burning conundrum of this discovery in my head. How oddly listened the slight Boots's the schemer the folks he was turning out such marvels had contrived such fun and games and everything was hurling down into cynicism cynicism and perversity. Well the fire of this depravity was now consuming me and plainly I was writhing in the throes of an iffy and the glowing lights of my red hot

imagination lit up the chilly. I say Shh licentiousness innocently. Then Derek goes on to untie his veal told in two more schemes to invade all the couple he leaves letters to him sort of Tisha city between breaks so that people would read them and follow on his instruction instructions however all this is interrupted by the arrival of the polish Polish underground leader. To the countryside to this manor and it turns out that he's having a nervous breakdown and there is a verdict given out by the by the underground authorities to liquidate him.

First At first the underground army they're going to execute this but then they decided to leave it to the men on the estate to deal with it. There were only a predatorial it's an order has been given. So they have to do it. So there is for their ink and if you told the owner of the estate and another man. So gradually as they discussed how to do it shouldn't do it maybe we should. We shouldn't but it's patriotic to do it. The order has been given gradually through Derek moves the group to decide well of course who's going to do it Carol. And when you do so. So then they go to the young couple and somehow the young couple agree because they are also interested in doing favors for the old and they want to be united with them as well. So this is a it's decided that when your leader's name is shame and he is staying in a bedroom upstairs

in a manner more or less quarantined. And so they decide that. And Carol we'll go up and do what they have to do. But I will knock on the door and suspecting anything will open the door. Whatever has to happen will happen. So here's a here's the how the story of how the episode goes. There's not much to tell him or more to tell. Actually everything went smoothly moralists smoothly to an ending that well surpassed our expectations and it was easy. I felt like laughing that such a crushing difficulty was ending with such a wink at ease. My role was to watch shamans. I lay on my bed supine heads under my head straining my ears. We entered into night. The house was astir and seriously I was waiting for the creaking of the steps under the feet of the killing

little couple. But it was too early by five minutes silence he Pollitt was standing guard in the courtyard. Frederick was downstairs by the entrance. Finally at 12:30 sharp the stairs creaked somewhere downstairs under their feet. Shoes off most likely there or in socks. Unforgettable Moments a gentle creaking of the stairs became audible again. Why were they sneaking up like that. It would have been more natural. If Kenya simply ran upstairs only. Carol needed to hide. But it's no surprise that the conspiracy had spread to them. And their nerves must have been strained. I almost saw them walking up from one step to the next step. She first he behind her feeling with their feet to keep the creaking to a mean minimum. I felt better. Wasn't this taking together a poor surrogate for

another sneaking a hundredfold more desirable when she would have been the girl of his sneaking steps. And yet there girl at this moment not so much shame in as the killing of him was no less carnal sinful and hot with love. And their sneaking was no less strange. Well it creaked again. Youth was approaching. It was inexpressibly delightful under their feet. A horrible deed was transforming itself into a blossoming deed and it was like a breath of fresh air. However. This taking youth was was it like was it was it. What was it like pure. Was it fresh and simple and natural or innocent. No it was for the older ones. If those two had forced their way into this affair it was for us obligingly to endear themselves to us to flirt with us a bit and my maturity for you was to meet on shaman's body with their youth for much you already. There you have it.

What on divil. Yet there was happiness in it and pride and what pride and something more something like a fourth guy. The fact that in agreement with us without whispering into the ear and actually from their need to serve us they were taking a risk and they were thus stealthily sneaking. They were setting about a crime. It was heavenly. It was amazing. In it lay hidden the most fascinating of the world's beauties lying on my bed. I was utterly beside myself at the thought that both of us for there Dick and I were where the inspiration to those feet creaking again now much closer now silent silence ensued. I thought they had perhaps broken down. Who knows. Perhaps seduced by their sneaking together they had turned away from their goal and turned towards each other and know in an embrace They forgot everything because they were after there for breath forbidden bodies in the dark on the stairs

breathless. Yes no new creaking announces that my hopes were in vain nothing change. They continue walking up the stairs. It turned out that my hope was utterly but utterly in vain. Totally out of the question out of their style. They were too young too young too young for this so they had to reach shaman and kill him. Then I wondered whether their courage had failed them. Perhaps she had caught his hand and pulled it down. What if the tremendous burden of their task had suddenly appeared to them its crushing weight. This to kill. What if they saw it and became scared. No. Never. This was out of the question. And for the same reason this precipice attracted them because they could jump over it. Their lightness strove toward them it was a bloody undertaking because they were changing this into something else and their approach to crime was actually and he lation of cry

by carrying it out. They were on the Hill eating it. Creaking there are marvelous illegality. They like likely sneaking sin boyish girlish. I almost saw their feet in a secret UNICEF's on their parted lips I heard the illicit illicit breathing. I thought about for Derek who was catching the same sounds from downstairs. Knock knock knock knock knock knock knocking that was she looking. Look. Knocking on Sheamus door. It is here that my account actually ends. The ending was too smooth too and I think fast too nimble and easy for me to be able to tell it in a sufficiently livable manner. I will limit myself to stating the facts. I heard her voice gives me the correct key turned and Shaman's a lock the door opened. A blow followed and there was a fall of a body that must have been tumbled flat onto

the floor. I think the boy used the knife twice more to leave nothing to chance. I ran into the corridor. Carol shone a flashlight Shamiana lay on the floor. There was a blood when we turned him over. It's done. Carol said. Now in this page and a half. Much more happens when tragedies that you could respect. But the final words are these. I looked at my little couple. They were smiling as the young do when faced with the difficulty of extricating themselves from a bitter predicament and for a second they ended with you know a catastrophe. I looked into one another's eyes. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

With the brakes not full time about three years for the delicate took me seven. Yes. Well there is no cosmos was three Also and this was free but for the dork it was the hardest because the language was the strangest. Really tore my hair out and I had the great help of studies for it but I entered coups as you know wonderful translator Polish into English so I would call him and say I can do it. He said well it has to be done. So I just went on. Why translate them. Why again. Well because the other translations were done through other languages for the Duca was done through through Spanish French German of course most of that was done from from the French. So was it a graph. So they were not directly from the voters that's why.

Ok well as it happened I was writing some short stories most myself short and they were rather crazy and it does your syncretic And just very odd. And then I started to read Cosmos and I thought oh how how beautifully this would be in English. So I started to translate that number of each just because I happen to read him at that time. And I sent a few pages to thank you for going to work. And the next thing I heard was from Timothy Garton Ash from Oxford in England. Would you try your hand at $30. Because Professor but I had suggested that so well when somebody asks you like that you don't refuse myself I would never have attempted it. So that's how it started from my own writing and it turned out that the fact that I had written

myself was a great help to me because my own thinking was surreal in these stories and I was sort of felt very sympathetic to what the bitch was doing. That's why I asked her. Oh yeah. Oh ok I like your work. Yes as a matter of fact I missed something. He was influenced by pretty yes but also he influenced the Latino writers and he had many followers many young people would want to try and write with him and in fact the

translation of food to do good. It was done by him although he knew very little of Spanish but other Spanish writers French writers and he translated. However it was the reverse of what you are asking. He influenced he influenced the city. And here is a very amusing actually. I don't know if you've read it. By Lance tavern's who's professor of Latin American and Latino culture at Hurst college and he says Come barrage which is the antithesis of bar has and the godfather of soul I knew who would have thought that a Polish immigrant could become such a superb Latin American writer. So you know whenever I meet people who are from Argentina I have been to Argentina. They all seem to have either known Cambrai to have heard of him or so he was a tremendous influence

really I can't think offhand the certainly weren't for the record that was incredible. It was really and I was so jealous of the French and the Spanish people because they had wonderful translation for the expression put shitty jets can put shitty coups you don't foam. Similarly the Spanish or something like that in poll in English there isn't anything under pinned under. So when under something with with my child by the child you know it is a really incredible expression. He used the Polish idiom but converted it to his own but not in pornographic. No I can't think of anything really. If you're sure you do have a minute if you're talking about

words if I can be referred back to put further look again. There was the word everybody was asking me how on earth did you transfer translate papa Well papa is bad buttocks backside whatever. But he also used the word pupa as a verb which doesn't exist in Polish now it exists. You know a lot of a language has been accepted into the vernacular. But you may do so again you know they would treat somebody to a pulp Our something too. Well which finally finally I came upon the word Tush and I thought you were wonderful wonderful. And you couldn't. Going to somebody you know. Unfortunately they have talked about this to Susan Sontag who was going to write. She did write the forward for the daughter because she she was she really loved to

come broaches work and she said no that's not it can't be. You know it's a bad word it's a Yiddish word. It wouldn't fly in the among American readership. So unfortunately I gave in and the editors suggested why don't we use the Polish word. It's spelled P U P A Polish but in English it's pronounced like pee or poop or so that's what was decided. That's a strange word you ask. He wrote you may have written in French because he knew French very well. But and. Or did you did you did you. Oh I didn't know that I really knew you knew going broach didn't you know. Also he knew enough to write letters I didn't know that. Well that was done already. And a lot of a lot of it did not receive a very good

review because it's written in a somewhat antiquated polish but the two translators who worked on it for 16 years used old English much English that's much more removed from the present English and use their own their own constructions to enhance the translation. Well recently I read Moby Dick and I was absolutely fascinated by the Dick and I thought that's a language that would sound very well because it's a little older. It's a little funny. It's it's it's lends itself to parody which a lot of translate and take it's funny and parody although it's also very serious. But that's the line so I'm tempted to learn Melville's English to translate again and so I think.