thumbnail of Africans in America; 103; Brotherly Love; Interview with Julius Scott, Professor of History, New York University
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louis xiv when seventeen and he's not likely to place me in a context where he stands in the world economy and so what's at stake in the snow will carry i think we're used to thinking about the country of haiti in certain kind of way here in nineteen ninety six murder nineteen nineties i think we're used to thinking about at the concert at a particular kind of way in the seventy nine is haiti's former french colony was known as sam the man was a
place that occupied a very different location in terms of its visibility and turbans economic viability in terms of the role that i play internationally but economically as well as politically in the eighteenth century at the time of the upriver for solutions and eighty nine the colony of sentiment one third the island of his spaniel cheers the island with the dominican republic the time a spanish colony cause and threatening to send the man was the most productive prosperous of all of the plantation economies in the caribbean but how the french revolution probably about half a war with sugar and coffee was produced in the entire caribbean region the cash crops of the eighteenth century came from this war in small college
it's about the size and square miles of the state of maryland was really a small place in certain kinds of ways the place though that so that's cow whose importance that was its size in some respects about half a million people of a seventy nine percent of those are enslaved africans so that from the film from the from the point of view of the scope of the plantation economy there is really quite different than what we're used to say and in the north american sort of context i use for comparison with would be the following that is that they're about the same number of enslaved africans working in santa land in seventy nine day is there are in the entire united states slave states in in as it's a seventeen about equal before hundred ford and fifty thousand but they're thirty or forty times more whites who occupy their region
in north america that would be the case and seven so that first of all as import understand that this french colony sentiment was a very very important place internationally in terms of his pre productivity in terms of its importance to the french american economy but also just as a as an emblem of a kind of successful quote unquote slave economy but it exists but in the years since in one thousand one in singleton says that's not off the regeneration to check out you can get really i think it does forget the other thing is that in seventy nine that sentiment is very small carlile is the with the
secular great britain the largest trading partner of the united states that is alive united states' trade from all of their major ports is really running through send them a getaway with the us is providing flour horses candles would all kinds of other important exports in in exchange for sugar coffee and the kinds of concord like sports that dissent unlike specializes in and so again before this mr motion leading up to the us and amman occupies an important place particularly for i think the north american economy the hundreds and hundreds of ships and hundreds and thousands of sailors who have been who've gone back and forth over the previous a half century who know send a man who who have been there who've experienced it to understand little bit about how it works there and so at the time of the revolution begins their arm not long after the property the french
abortion obviously that revolution focus is a certain amount of very rapt attention informed attention from these north americans who have who have already had a pretty quick a particularly close relationship with with that with that column by settling with its they went in the world that's that's that's a complicated question i guess they're probably two things at stake potentially ok and in it and i guess it depends on on one's location in north america politically to talk now about a powerful economic actors that is on the one hand there may be some benefit two to a corner revolution a place like send them and that is
if there's a way in which this college and become independent france the united states can penetrate that market more effectively than they had been able to to many people a sentiment you who want to have a colonial revolution was like the one that has happened in north america so that they can sort of create for themselves their own economic network rather than having it be subject to the needs of the french metropol so for some americans there may be some benefit to our revolution critically that leads to a kind of independence which they can take economic advantage on the other hand the united states of course and most of the other territories that border the greater caribbean or places which have made a heavy investment and slave labor and an and the plantation regime so that the other side of the solution the one that really eventually
comes to dominate the way which people will get it from outside is the fact that it becomes very quickly it moves very quickly from being a a a rebellion of some disgruntled colonial overlords to really being a social revolution against slavery or plantations are becoming targets the accumulated wrath of these workers and so the man who withdrew who have suffered to create the kind of prosperous economy that everybody envy so much and if that if the a regime could be overtime if a place like santa man in a most prosperous the richest the of the most envied you know the one that appears to be most successful in the seventy days if a place like that to be overturned than any an african inspired revolution from below then clearly the reverberations of that kind of movement might also have the same kind of effects and other
places in jamaica and cuba you know in south carolina and virginia so in some senses that latter understanding of the revolution is the one that they really comes to two to two to reflect the ways in which politically american rulers began thinking about this rebellion that every course of the south where where they have the samples than online because one that appears to be what appears to be problematic from the point of view of other side is that of that have cast their lot with this plantation when she wants to it seems to be is sitting and how do you take me to the elkhorn slough about those to reverse the philadelphia
start leaving things in the complexity of i'm ok religious and a mangled reaches a major turning point in the summer of seventy ninety three by now it's clear that to use maybe it is a number that analogy but it was one use at the time was clear the genie cannot be put back in the bottle now the words rebellion has begun to send o'malley unlike other slave revolt in the end there those labels all over the caribbean for a hundred years but it's clear that this one was taking on a different a whole different cast than that that generally rebellious that it had taken on director of many of the heroes were still out there still out why the economy and up and we put back together yet and in the
summer some united three about a year and a half in two so this movement the commissioners who are in charge the french commissions were in charge and send them and decide to make a very bold move they decide to cast france's lot with the popular uprising they decided in effect to issue what amounts to an emancipation proclamation to set phillip k into the philadelphia flyers in the end more insurgent or prisoner summit t ninety three there was a massive exodus from senate today as the revolution managed to take over glee the year in the most important
port of the ecology center many couples said it was with as it was known to time and literally as hundreds of for hundreds of thousands of people tried to scramble aboard vessels to to escape the sugar and in my mind it did it did it something like the the chair lift at the end of the vietnam war you know where people are scrambling to sort of escape and take what they can and i think it's important to remember that that confusion and the chaos that attended that that an exodus from the summer of ninety three augment that the exodus itself had a prayer lee diverse character obviously i am many of those who acted were planters their families other whites to service the plantation economy who saw the revolution something that they had to sort of be away from
very quickly but a lot of other kinds of people managed to get aboard those messages well some escaped slaves some of these planners brought people who are slaves whom they trusted with them and free many women of color as well who might've do use an opportunity to try to escape some of the some of the impending confusion it was bound up to a to attend that they're dumb there are going to the people and i'm going to various places and many of them because again the north american commercial connection so strong most of the vessel in the end and in the harbor of capper american vessels and so they were going back to court in the united states that are going back to charleston to norfolk to savannah to philadelphia to new york and it's hard to imagine be that the shock and surprise in an era when there's not advance news or neutral which i was as fast as as ships and people that home
in places like straw center norfolk and philadelphia one that people looked up and there a beer in the harbor were dozens of vessels with these two a diverse corps of ragtag refugees from different visions and i'm a mother was that had been going on for about year and a half but now it was clear because of his real visible and dramatic immersion that these can be good but these americans now had that this was a very very important event that was sort of taking place and so in philadelphia and charleston and in norfolk you begin to get people settling into these communities they have a real affect on the way in which these communities are now thinking about their relationship to this pressure ablution to december nine revolution and you also began to get that safely in the south but also some degree in a place like philadelphia you began to get the other side of the road the response that is that there's probably a response to try to help these refugees there's also a lot of
suspicion about there their underlying political motives who they might be what they might be about what they might be trying to bring into this country there's a way in which the blm these refugees are tracked a lot of attention but also a lot of suspicion as well as help with the same at the same time and there's also considerable common about the the free people of color in particular who have managed to call or what they are what their agendas how should they be thought of in terms of in terms of outreach as they arrived in these places and of course of the closer you get to the caribbean the more the more you are immersed in society for plantation economy still operates the higher that suspicion obviously the higher suspicion the more intense it has the suspicion religious commune and southern north america the
show the top one of the things that that begins happening early on in the summer and for ninety three years states begin to pass laws which attempt to limit who it is they can arrive in airports so that there are laws pass in south carolina georgia and north carolina they're also local ordinances that are passed in various individual ports which outlawed the arrival and the presidents and the moving around the circulation to take lives of people of color free or enslaved who have a who are known to have then at some point in the french island's other words there's a real concern that that beneath the cloak of these refugees there might work a certain you know planted
agitators whose job it might be to comment other plays and tried to read so take me back to the home nations fear apprehension in the one society well the revolution when it is afraid they'll be transported to new orleans well that that the french revolution you know has opposed itself some some pretty fundamental challenges to tuba to the ways in which things work and many and many countries and and i think that that diffusing of this french revolutionary doctrine the fact that its permission from below with the glee of the most intense of war and that dealing with the most intense of all of those
the rangers of the ocean virginia plantation economy produces a real idea that in fact the way that the other myth that they did to bring together of black revolutionaries with the ideals of india the potential radical nature of something like her front of pollution could really produce a kind of movement there could spread and send them over two other places to be a great family businesses the freedom and liberty in miami whenever i think of what he's black rebels and then it's scary like
it the most surety care in america i toss it is a klingon is an erosion is there even in our own country is and liberty there was an incident and seventeen ninety three which i think it reflects in some to some degree what the real what the what the origins of some of the apprehensions might be on one of the many ships that was leaving santa mind was that was traveled to charleston in sunny ninety three on the way there was a year that was at a black freshman who had managed to get aboard the ship and a recap of the trust and most people are understandably that he should be
onboard like anybody else on a religious fascism but as they were en route on this were twelve or thirteen day voyage from tough process to charge that he began talking about the role he had played during the revolution and send them by how many white people he had personally killed how how committed he was in some sense to to seeing whether the same kinds of things could also take place in other places that you might visit and so the presence of someone like this this was really upset at the book at the heart of you know that that the concern about this kind of you know porous ness of this maritime culture was kind of at the heart of both of these aphorisms and ninety three legal efforts to try to really limit the amount of contact between these north american ports of acutely black people in the sports and black people come from other parts of the of the greater caribbean there
was a potential i think on yes like slavery as regime was one on which attempted to create a situation where of intense local isn't which you put which tried to create for slaves a very limited horizon in terms of oviedo what constituted their world and one of the things that this and i'm a revolution was doing was really focusing attention and things that are taking place outside an opening up and so to some degree a whole set of possibilities about how i might apply ideas to my situation here in our folks that other people had applied in other places so i think that the conversation the dsm the opening up of the election world had a lot to do with the ways in which north americans white north americans who are in positions of power
or attempted to to two women contacting communication between between the caribbean producer caribbean and in north america you tell me the story well bore one of the vessels that lasts a semi sending it through on its way to charleston there was a suspicious black passenger aboard who during the course of the voyage lisa corduroy patches related question began to talk mary unreservedly about the role he played in the senate nine revolution about whites that he killed about his continued interest in pushing forward this agenda and when he arrived in charleston he was arrested and there was a verb there were orders his entrance and by this time which were designed to keep individual like this out and so the
way it would work in this case was the captain of the vessel was was threatened with severe punishment unless he actually took this individual back to send american leader delivered an affidavit which which can be limited to deliver an affidavit which wants to testify for the captain was enjoyment to take this individual back to send and to receive an affidavit which we would then deliver back to charleston which are validated the fact that he had made it so that it had made this trance and this you know they're made and the other individuals who were more reserved about their verbal their verbal
connection to the solution but you may have chosen the same kinds of lettuce and who made so that this these kinds of incidents has decreased a lot of these of these people in these north american ports in particular it's interesting because this is something that goes through the whole thirty year period in some sense in particular they're worried about sailors that is people who made regular voyage is back and forth that is it wasn't just suspicious refugees it was also people who who had who had a business going back and forth to these caribbean islands and so there was a lot of concern to people in charleston about what to do about sailors many of the merchants said why have sailors were from a and they're very trustworthy if you attack like sailors dead that bad attacks my livelihood and some and some sense others he said because the sailors and that we don't really know what they're bringing back and forth with them and so there is a debate there were ways in which this weekend for a pretty complicated issue
in terms of how how to manage and control communication does because movement is part of the system should have to move in a vest away money gets made of the way price co produces the way trade happens and it's those same kinds of networks that are now coming into up under scrutiny as possible ways in which under kinds of resistance might also be spray and as part of those commercial into changes how are you well unfortunately you know it'd be great if we head if we had the kinds of documents that when it was to really see clearly the ways in which these kinds of ideas and news and information accounts of what's happening in sediment were circulating in black communities we don't have a lot of
that bubble bobble we do have is a lot of circumstantial evidence about how this works for example there was a an individual by the name of newport bowers who was a north american born in massachusetts who had moved up to baltimore and seventy nine victory at the same time that these dozens of ships and these flotilla of refugees arrived in north america with these accounts of the the turn of events and send a man in favor of the black rebels near newport a black man's decided to go in the opposite direction so words he's so so his is doable was going on and send them and obviously conflicted a lot with the kinds of views that were being expressed by other members of baltimore society at the time were passing was trying to keep contact with work with
what the caribbean you want to immerse himself in that context and so actually board the vessel went to caffe or say and in the summers and ninety three and stayed there for about six months when he was doing there what kind of experiences he had they originally imagined but but but this but this sort of countervailing movement of interest is seems to mate probably indicative of the way a lot of north american africans were thinking at the time that they met him and had a very different view about what's going on sentiment it is the thing about new poor bauer to stay in shuffle say is that we can also create another or looked at another body of circumstantial evidence that is who were the people who were on board ships his crewmen as coaxes for maximum and other capacities who were leaving north american ports and traveling to send a man during the same time they were shipped from philadelphia from baltimore from charleston there are black crewmen
cooks all kinds of other people who you know like newport war and said the night his time part of their jobs but there they were because if they think they're experiencing in and bring back with them are things that you know when we can begin to see how plausible is that there might be that there might be a sort of a whole other network and communication information that's part of the way that the black community is operating through in some ways via come through the years but the nexus the networks of these of these black maritime workers who move back and forth back and forth back and forth and so on it was a very interesting set of new way to think about what's going on and he's in the ninety three not just the reaction of the whites were hostile to the shooting but also the ways in which black people are trying
to reach out and think about understand that rebellion has learned about a particular kinds of ways to that's also available to stop in philadelphia to yet another photo of refugees that constancy the christian you're a communist very well and seventeen ninety eight the british who have tried to annex parts of cinematic give up their effort and again there's a not there's another not as massive as the first exodus five years earlier but there's another exodus of those people would cast their lot with the british and they're moving adams and the man leading cinema and by this time to dig into it to send to go through and the black rebels and one
of the places where several shit show up from southern said the man is in philadelphia in the summer of the seventy nine a late june early july of ninety it's very interesting because they arrive at a particularly interesting time because congress at that point is in fact debating what are now known as alien and sedition acts that is the corpus of legislation designed in many cases two to limit contact with rebellious foreigners to do to enable people to be gotten rid of to make it more difficult for foreigners coming to the united states to be naturalized to exercise their rights as citizens of center says a very interesting sort of untimely appearance right and there was debate we're greeted the congressional floor that in fact albin the harbor out in the delaware river where there are several western sentiment some of which they argued were heard that they had heard had black
rooms and blacks aboard people who have been involved in the british side the sentiment revolution who wanted entry into philadelphia and so it really just it encapsulated lizard conaway all the tensions that were already being expressed there and it sparks a a fairly lengthy debate in philadelphia both about who these people are what their agenda might be there who act who and how many blacks are on the vessels and whether these people ought to be allowed to enter philadelphia all in public they have several newspapers that have different political agendas and they are debating among themselves about all these kinds of questions in raising an end and really demonstrating pretty graphically the public nature about the you know how the sand of my revolution
gets sort of an exported and end and the fact that you know it's really having an effect very concrete effect in this case in different in different places were people discussing and thinking about and having some ways to now make some judgments about you know what the role this case of philadelphia's kind of a relative to two people were leaving session they also know as they decide to admit the vessels into the philadelphia port what happens after that i don't know i'm here but they do also with this i think after about a week and a half of the bank to admit to allow businesses actually coming to philadelphia from so do you
think well one of the people that was in philadelphia at the time or with all the other important politicians was was her vice president tom jefferson hands it's interesting that jefferson earlier in his career secretary of state he'd received a lot of detailed information about things that were taking place and send them an e before the revolution again even going back into seventeen eighteen nineteen ninety now as vice president and later as president in all three of these offices and he has an awful lot of of that experience with the sentiment revolution panda at points in that in their career really speaks to a certain very pronounced fear
about what the revolution might accomplish in the in north america just a few months after the us sent in any incident and interesting enough he talks about the danger of opening a legitimate trade with sentiment which is an option that's being explored in seventeen ninety nine eighteen hundred that whether or not easy it would it would be possible for an independent sentiment to operate just as other countries operated submarine that suits with their flag fly going back and forth treaty to set or an egg and as this possibility begins to be discussed and talked about potentially pursued by two sadly that's true and other officials inside the lending itself jemison expresses some strong misgivings about this and the words he uses or something like the falling and
unlike or indirectly or a something like on we may expect he says if there's trade takes place black cruzen supercargo reason and other gunships from send a magnificent united states and to our ports and that may create a kind of a combustion that we sort of have to figure it's really interesting that he uses very very vividly that image of the black roux the black ship the black superstar suggesting in some sense that this experience of generous md ninety eight when these issues are being debated about what to do about these black people aboard these vessels was being talked about in philadelphia suggested in some ways that have a real affect on the way in which he began projecting forward about what the eventual outcome of the sentimental version might be were the united states to recognize the independence
of sentiment to try to treat sent away as they would any other independent of nations that was that that talk about jefferson county about who comes to see me in this is going to be any new hq fb page well and i guess it could be said that the revolution and send them a really really brings us into the bar to a certain degree in other words here is that the creator of the declaration of independence
the individual who is that throughout his life seen as the very humble of a kind of understanding about the importance of love of struggle against struggle at it in favor of change and democratic structures and against the ossified whole institution there's often at the shake shake things up this has ever since of ideology this center nine revolution puts those ideas to the test in the way the club in order that appears of his life did because here we had in some sense the bearded bp all summer in that setting that is here are the most degraded an oppressed individuals in the atlantic world the most exploited taking seriously to some degree this promise this this program does overturning of institutions
that in some sense represent a kind of were thinking about the declaration of independence and but and so jefferson davis is put to the test in some ways here and his view of this revolution was almost always wanted when she expressed fear and doubt arm several points in his and his career critically ill eight seventy nine as vice president he made statements in in a really anguishing about the ways in which this revolutionary wave that that had taken paula send a bang and it was moving inexorably toward undermining slavery in other places but was unnecessary or something to be totally work on that as there was a way in which these this kind of a movement might in fact have negative kinds of consequences and as president united states
as someone who was in a position to work to define be the foreign policy of the country jefferson becomes very much in opposition to this rebellion couple of examples of his of his own but his program here in the summer at no one after jettison wins the election of eighteen hundred takes office he puts in place his own republican foreign policy apparatus and one of the things that he does is is to appoint a consul to send the man to replace the federalist cause of who's been there working for the administration has managed to buyers leader and he says we're down to send the manx somewhat late things were
organized and heroically arrives in sentiment interesting enough right around to write on july fourth at no one which is the twenty fifth anniversary a half jubilee american independence in an answer it's an interesting date again in terms of you know veterans of president says isn't an interesting quarter century that he's in some ways helped to help to define who he is so your eyes and send a man to lead it you know and what happened to send a lang is they're really moving toward independence if they've adopted a new constitution which outlawed slavery sentiment something at the american prestige and i read it and created made to sound editor of the government for life of the scholars so they're still college but they're acting independently
career was to me too son had to present his his his papers to him as somebody who's going to be looking out for american trade ins and i'm back to the federalist com cancelled was a man named edward steve is a philadelphia physician who's been forever close friend and confidant of tucson takes lyric to me to sign that his office and lear writes very eloquent letter back to secretary of state james madison about his experience at that point very interesting arm nears reduces itself i'm the consul here are my you're my papers and to cite their lives through the papers and islam is not finding something is looking for mirrors and understand jesus as well where where is my personal reading from your new president i was very interested in following
election and i'm very congratulatory of procedures as having taken office in an eye eye eyes as sort of the head of state years and when i expect that you know mr jefferson would send me personally reviewed you must you must and this place looks ondaatje well as the displacement personally lee is very embarrassed was he has not personally there is a letter from president jefferson and he's also he's so the stammering he says well this is not really a high diplomacy situation here we you're not really worthy of the usual attentions there were ten let's say a very good you know in england or if iran some other place obviously there's a different kind of protocol that's part of that relationship is not really applicable here too son takes newspapers has them back to him and his and
his lyricist very upset extremely upset leaders have embarrassed the two sides very upset and and looks a leader in the i am and that there's a way in which the passion comes through even as we are second hand account of this which is he says you know what if i was a man of color then i would be someone who's worthy of the usual tensions you tell that to your president thomas jefferson there's a way in which when toussaint realize that there was no personal reading from president jefferson he became very upset or exercise and he handed we're the papers back as if he was the court except him as a us consul and in a ever passionate
and the rejoinder that was recorded by leader in his letter to madison and it comes through in a letter to sign up lectured innocence and said something to the effect that you know if i were not a man of color that would be worthy of these with tensions that attend the relations between heads of state and we're was really devastated by the censor the road back to madison about it he left without is papers be accepted by two sides reluctantly the next day to sign did accept the a the appointment leaders council but there's a sense in which in that twenty four hours you want i wanted america to sour realize that he couldn't count on the united states to help them establish the kind of sovereignty that he was really looking for in his and his republican experiment that really
jams and was on board on this one and in some sense that's spelled the downfall for this very hopeful revolution that he too son to venture it had a lot to do in terms of forwarding they are it's both one story of two senators rise to prominence certainly has to be one of the most amazing sight as a disco seventy nine east period you're somebody who rose from you know very modest circumstances person who went from you know the one who emerged from a situation where people like him or in the very
worst most oppressed kind of situation he was a reverse that i'm able to two to combine some amazingly adroit combination of political savvy of military intelligence and other kinds of and other kinds of person all stress that he brought to his role to really push this revolution forward to push itself forward and to emerge in the nba in the space of less than a decade from being a very obscure or individual to being really a player on the international stage who and in the minds of many people even at the time was the person who was probably most important as as an immersion figure because of the kinds of because of the movie that he was connected to because of the way in which slavery and slavery is ending had become such a important part of this
international movement of the use of the of the of the period of revolution and two sound of a true for many people symbolized some ways the real promise and what i'm interested in somebody who had been prophesied by earlier riders that was jeopardized the border emerged to really try to turn the politics of this oppressive plantation society and regional land and really work it move it in a more positive more positive direction and to senator was that individual and in many ways the president met to set the most war or priscilla to sell the most is his his struggle with and it up with unbelievably difficult unprecedented role that he had to play with a lot of the tendon difficulties i mean there's a there's a way in which this revolution
was just ahead of its time that is there was no doubt that this wasn't a this was the historic moment necessarily for a revolution like this to emerge in the sense that there wasn't going to be support for it and any other powerful place and so here's a here's a revolution is trying to be born here when most of the other characters surrounding it that are backed by big powerful empire of navies on these are all thinking that that in fact the plantation regime has to continue to exist and this kind of revolution is taking place inside america's got to be suppressed and reversed to cite in the midst of that international hostility prize even so to create for this small territory a kind of sovereignty that you know i kind of standing in the international community at a place it's going to have its own
merchant marine and its own maybe in on end is going to be and so to try to figure out a way to live with its neighbours through diplomacy the same way is true and another place is very very breathtaking the asian the two senators from sadr brings to this to this to this movement on the force only a vision that the decider realized did what used to silence didn't waste his vision for the nation well i think to sow thinks of the potential of them at an independence and the monuments to say more errors you know he sees the independent states other words as the act as it as a place where self determination sovereignty responsible
leadership in all of the all of rio the requirements of us were republican small r polity will be reflected here among these sex slaves and sentiment that that that bill but this will be this will become a nation state to some degree the difficulty of course is that it's a black mission statement so that the hostility to attend that obviously something that that that that becomes a very much a part of what operator working against the establishment that kind of mission in some ways i think to psychotic hopes that that the enlightenment he has again a certain kind of optimism that the enlightenment will out that in some ways people yes this bus so this identity of race or background to really take to send them answers listen as a nation among nations
on is is they're also about it forty revolution or not contain elephant went around there perhaps other things that that the two sides sort of a master of israel politi there was one thing to talk about is his is this philosophy his hopes but it's another thing to talk about you know the survival of this territory and this is a big issue obviously the issue about whether or not to send a man and we're outside the lines existence is contingent upon the eradication of slavery everywhere else is that a role for a place like an emergent place like cinematic isn't the
sentiment revolution which drew sighs heavily as head a lot to do and isn't that important enough that it's there that needs to take place in a british territories and visit a place in the southern united states and he's at a place where spanish territories there many people are in sentiment in outside you believe that that's true that in facts and amazement that they were to exist on last slavery get a racket everywhere and the really the role for santa manages to be the spearhead for the kids' discontinuing revolution is gonna devour tour's erratically its labor party sat voters not convinced and sharon that that's exactly where sentiment what to do and so part of his compromise that heat the facts with the british were with the americans and with others is that he sort of promises that in fact sam and i will not be that exporter revolution
there really what's gonna happen is what we later in the twenty century now as the revolution in one country it wouldn't have our revolution but in fact what we're going to take care of our own internal situation and not in some ways tried try to enforce a particular place as long as you will that is the brits and the americans and others don't try to impose our internal political situation of course the situation itself is much more complicated than that because you know what happens as soon as there's a revolt in jamaica which is which is a one day sale away from sad and they bring in a row who says yeah i heard about that revolution in haiti it doesn't matter does a what what you know they didn't make as much as to say i'm a try to placate his his powerful neighbors they're just going to be a way in which the very fact of this revolution and its success is going to continue to be something i've discussed and talked about an active employee in other places and so in a sense
in anonymous report calling it taylor there's a way in which the revolution in one country idea is a very can be a very difficult one to get to the employment because because of the particular social economic are you in the world of the rise of the void in france really spells disaster for the revolutionary colleges' in the caribbean where slavery had been abolished not to send a man with a rather martini
one when another french places in the caribbean to witness and as a minister the rise of napoleon to the home office of emperor and france spelled doom and some wise for these caribbean converts that have been undergoing these revolutions and in that ad that abolished slavery in several places and the plan was to reverse the seventy nine four degree to reestablish slavery throughout the french dominicans and to get rid of those leaders agreed to send that you were who were a part of this whole other movement the question of course for the united states was having was how to think about this they knew that and did it in some ways this french effort to establish a kind of counter revolution the caribbean was was forthcoming
they had a certain kind being with the americans had a certain kind of vested interest perhaps an are resisting the re imposition of french power in this hemisphere not mean after all some sense for napoleon to reestablish himself as this as a sort of colonial player in the new world would in some ways complicate american foreign policy they'd be better off to have more independent nations throughout the americas as opposed to think the vestiges of european empire continuing to operate in the americas during interesting so decision on its decision the president jefferson has to make once so he's approached by the french government into to two two to sound out what he's going to do and in reaction to an effort to establish a terrible ocean and send a man to reestablish celebrity or to
celebrate you and we don't we don't have them necessarily present terms of himself talking about a boy didn't have the records of the french minister who meets with jesperson to pose this to him and did did they meet the measure comes that he rides back to his to his response when france and in fact janice and presenters and has said he'll do will resist this imposition and that in fact there's a way it was the americans may even be available to help start to send the pitcher out if that's necessary so in socialism is an interesting way in which the re imposition of a kind of internal presence in the new world is his service and a lax to two to pursue that chorus as opposed to continuing to bomb
for extending the support for an independent and independence and the man fortunately for the people send a lang slash at the despite the the french effort and despite the americans a tacit support of friendship or they managed nevertheless to establish independence to resist and defeat the french force in napoleon's brother in law and establish an independent country on january one at nau for whose name was haiti a country that was not recognized by anyone that the united states and to eating sixties not even by france and to relate to until very very far and mit century so that is so in some ways it was in independence bowl and tennis without recognition outside but certainly an independent scotland and seventy wanted great
cost of which had an incredible effect in terms of the international black intellectual world that is that we now have such an example really of other successful revolution successful struggle for certain kinds of high ideals a nation independent in the midst of all this hostility which maybe hopefully it is able to pull a self together can act as a kind of a springboard for helping to deal with them and and and enhance the situation of african people's worldwide not just in the united states but in other places as well we began to see very early in the nineteenth century the haitian revolution gets talked about and written about by north american after that after a north american commentators as well as by others as being really the single event of
probably entire history of the present every reason in the world and really as a kind of emblem for him struggle and an emblem for black achievement that is just the first step in what hopefully is going to be a much longer history of struggle ensued he has business been i think the best example is an individual whom i think is very interesting john brown ross want ross won that was it was born in jamaica and seventeen ninety nine right in the middle the midst of all these are all things that are going on to science rise to power all those jefferson's statements about black cruz and cargoes almost a lot of cameras means bird right right up the road there on cinemax he isn't
moving as a young man to quebec and then later ends up coming to the united states to go to college or two tens of a boat in college in brunswick maine where in the year at twenty six he becomes the second person of african descent to graduate from interstates college principles of men who graduated from amherst just weeks earlier and the last one was sung as a as someone who had the caribbean background hadn't really interesting set of interests one of which was an abiding interest nation emotion and he wrote term papers while he was an undergraduate at bozeman about to send a veteran about the haitian revolution he you know he he did he did a lot of very deep research into some of these some of these issues and questions than i am and
i think one of the most interesting things about what turned out from this was an aid in any inherent in twenty six when he graduated it was the late summer of eighteen twenty six of course on july fourth eighteen twenty six says fiftieth anniversary of the declaration of independence twenty five years after tobias we're going in cinnamon and of course on that day july fourth nineteen twenty six thomas everson as lois adams the two remains were pictures of the revolution died and so there's a way in which that briley providential of them has a pretty amazing of attitude towards fifty years after the liberation the two main pro people were sort of revolution diane is a way in which speeches and bryce speakers and riders this creates a transcript for them to talk about the rape at the import nature of the american photographer independent tears away with his travel most legitimizing and
it appears to be giving divine sanction to american is now fifty years old and states in anyway the storm is one of his colleges graduation speakers right in the midst of all this celebration of the jubilee of independence and gives a speech about revolution not import a revolution and the transforming nature of the revolutionary struggle but he's talking about the haitian revolution of the american revolution i really kind of so kind of a subversive again a kind of commentary about sever sony and federal or state craft toward this rebellion to try to contain it but yet he yet here we are at twenty six to independent nations the united states in haiti as well social workers it's both
how to sell a venture is in is an aria eight percent a figure in this hole oh the golden dome of the revolution and send a man but ironically he's not the hero of the location independence that that matter went to a different person someone who'd two separate websites are certain points john just destiny and gasoline i think comes with two to his role as a military leader in this last phase of the haitian revolution it is a phase which really declared itself to be independent or france and resisted this final attempt to re impose slavery ended after eating out two he comes to their role with some british some different ideas about about international politics and the role of this revolution and a particular heat that appears to be and this was less willing to sort of
compromise with so he summons some of these international protocols that to son was what's with a compromise with a desolate doesn't trust the european powers do with their biggest what they say they're going to do he feels as though any white presence in haiti he's going to have been chilly result in a re imposition of the plantation regime and so he's much less willing to son had been before him to two harber the presence of people that he considers to be people have the yearly interest of them part of the book about the plantation are pursuing in mind and so his shoes his persona in terms of how it's talked about by european observers has always been of a much more sort of hard line violent
you know they've made a they prefer to cyber muster this elaine but then it's always you need is someone like desolate perhaps to really push this revolution into that final independence stage the bigger the butt the program the tucson had had pursued really was ill fated and gasoline him to christoph and others really pushed his thing for so they were the ones who really became the leaders of the haitian independence movement that really established and generally to know for the independent republic of haiti well and seventeen ninety nine as the possibility for trade between the united states and send them and was beginning to
be discussed and opened from jefferson this rich preston in a letter on cinders a real misgivings about this this trade what it might entail in terms of in terms of allowing gay ms ba and seventy nine in iran gerson addresses some very strong misgivings about opening in a kind of trailer send them and his is his language at that point points to the dane fear of the possibility of having what he calls
black cruz and super cargos coming from santa ran into the ports of the united states to due to trade with love with love the north americans any any he feels as though that may create a kind of a situation where tom they are young revolutionary combustion can be taken from sentiment and an export it through the medium of the stray too businesses in north korea it was ironic that despite jefferson's own hostility to the sender marrying haitian revolution that the signal achievement of his administration was burned was based on the success of the revolution that was the year of the purchase of the louisiana territory of which took place
after surprise him at all three they say what happened was that that once named napoleon's idea was to direct route to for re this there was the french empire through a tropical zone in a temperate zone so we had louisiana you could marry that up with do re imposing a plantation region a place like santa man and re create a cab french american empire and once the cinnamon rolls dispensed that part that part of the plan that louisiana no longer had the kind of value to the friends that once and so johnson was able to purchase louisiana for a very cheap first when they need and my understanding is that the word a haiti or it a mystery exactly how they pronounce that at the time was a reference to our rendering of the original our one named for the island that the longest name just
daniel and was later colonialist split between the french and the english or the french and the spanish versions of santa domingo it's been my understanding is that the name katie orr it has its finance there today is a rendering of the original kerouac named for the island which columbus renamed his daniel unfortunately too and so in some ways it no haitian independence the adapting of that name has was sort of saying something about the you know that the one of the ways in which there was a lot of hope for return to those to those pre colonial days of freedom and self determination thank you
Africans in America
Episode Number
Brotherly Love
Raw Footage
Interview with Julius Scott, Professor of History, New York University
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WGBH (Boston, Massachusetts)
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Julius Scott is interviewed about Haiti in 1790, Saint-Domingue as important trading port for the US, Haitian Revolution eliminates slavery, fears of US plantation owners, reloction of Haitian refugees, legal efforts to keep black Caribbeans out of ports and stop communication of news from Haiti, 1798 ships arrive in Philadelphia from Saint-Domingue,Thomas Jefferson's apprehension about a black republic, Toussaint L'Ouverture, Napoleon's influence in the Caribbean, Haiti independence, John Brown Russwurm, Jean-Jacques Dessalines, the Louisiana Purchase.
Race and Ethnicity
American history, African Americans, civil rights, slavery, abolition, Civil War
(c) 1998-2017 WGBH Educational Foundation
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Duration: 1:14:57
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Chicago: “Africans in America; 103; Brotherly Love; Interview with Julius Scott, Professor of History, New York University,” 1998-00-00, WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 11, 2021,
MLA: “Africans in America; 103; Brotherly Love; Interview with Julius Scott, Professor of History, New York University.” 1998-00-00. WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 11, 2021. <>.
APA: Africans in America; 103; Brotherly Love; Interview with Julius Scott, Professor of History, New York University. Boston, MA: WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from