WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Sue O'Connell. This is the Kelly Crossley Show. On July 26 1775 the Second Continental Congress gave us the US postal system and with that our first postmaster general Benjamin Franklin exactly three hundred and six years later on July 26 2011 the U.S. Postal Service released a list of over 3600 local offices that could get the old heave ho. These closings are hardly signed sealed or delivered but with the prospect of one in every ten post office is shutting down. We'll look at what's to lose. And what's to gain. Could this be good for small businesses if the post office is merged with mom and pop operations. Or could it mean more job losses or the beginning of the end of a civic service. The demolition of New Deal era post offices that are as much works of art as they are public spaces. We'll find out. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying we're still seeing a slide in

U.S. stocks with the Dow down three hundred thirty two points or nearly three percent at ten thousand nine hundred eight Nasdaq is off two and a half percent. It's a 24 19 S&P 500 down nearly 3 percent at 11:40. Kenneth Polcari at ICAP equity says this volatility is to be expected I think actually we test the lows again because you know we're at a place that that's kind of not really support not really resistance so the market needs to find its way. Analysts say attention is shifting back to the near stalled U.S. economy despite thousands more police officers on the streets of London and other English cities a fourth night of looting erupted in Manchester and Birmingham attempting to reassure a very nervous public Prime Minister David Cameron said Britain will not fall victim to a culture of fear people allowed to feel that the world owes them something and that their actions do not have consequences. Well they do have consequences. Three days of rioting began with public anger over the deadly police shooting of Tottenham men. But the protests have since collapsed into what police are calling a wave of

uncertainty. Tanks are out of the besieged Syrian city of Hama where hundreds of people were killed in recent days. NPR's Kelly McEvers reports the move comes one day after Turkey urged Syria to stop killing protesters and enact serious reform. Reporters taken to Hama by the Syrian government say dozens of Syrian Army vehicles packed with soldiers left the city while chanting slogans in support of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Turkish Prime Minister regift Tayyip Erdogan said the withdrawal shows that recent talks between Turkey and Syria are yielding results. He said he hopes to see Syria enact real reforms in 10 15 days. But anti-government groups say previous promises of reform have yielded few results. Meanwhile activists say tanks have stormed two towns in northwestern Syria near the Turkish border killing one woman and injuring more than a dozen other people. Syrian troops also continued with a siege on the eastern city of datasource. Kelly McEvers NPR News Beirut.

The White House says Syria would be better off without leader Bashar al-Assad saying the international community is increasingly unified against Syria's crackdown on anti-government activists. Earlier the U.S. Treasury Department announced new sanctions targeting Syria's financial infrastructure. The U.S. military says it's taken out the Taliban insurgents who downed a U.S. helicopter over the weekend in Afghanistan killing 38 people most of them American forces. Marine Corps General John Allen the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan says international forces track down the insurgents and kill them in an early Monday morning airstrike. There are reports of more tit for tat shelling today between the two Koreas with the north reportedly test firing artillery shells near the disputed border in the south. Firing back warning shots. You're listening to NPR News. Good afternoon I'm Sue O'Connell in for Cali Crossley. This is the Kelly Crossley Show. Well last month the United States Postal Service announced that it's

considering closing down over 3600 post offices across the country with more and more people opting to go online to take care of their shipping needs rather than standing in line at their local post office. Well is this that is the 300 year old institution losing its relevance and that's the question we pose for this hour. We're talking to a variety of people in the field in those looking at it from afar. But first we're kicking off this hour with United States congressman Steven Lynch Congressman Lynch represents Massachusetts Ninth District and he is the sponsor of a new bill to overhaul the pension system for postal workers. Representative Lynch welcome to the Calla Crossley Show. Thank you sir. Thanks for having me. So can you explain for our listeners there's it's a complicated issue with the post office. But this sort of prepayment of the pension which is a very different issue than much of the pension conversation that we've been having lately both nationally and locally. What is it about the way the post office is structured that makes it

in such a precarious position. Well for some reason in the postal accountability and Enhancement Act going back a few years Congress devised a pre-payment schedule for the post office which requires them to pre fund their retiring health benefits. So this this isn't the practice in any of a business or agency in America today but unfortunately it requires an upfront payment of about five billion dollars from from the Postal Service United States Postal Service which is paid for by by postal customers. That payment goes to the Office of Personnel Management for all of the federal government. So that's how that's how these benefits. I paid but it is extremely onerous and as I said before there's no other business in America that operates this way so it's causing a lot of hardship there.

There are ABA problems but this is certainly one of the big ones and one of the more immediate problems we got to address. One of the things I read over and over Representative Lynch in preparing for the show was that if we weren't in such a national crisis regarding our economic outlook this would be the number one issue we'd be talking about or certainly would be higher on the priority list. Talk a bit about what some of the other problems are that you see in moving forward with with a healthy post office. Sure. I think that's absolutely right so I think you know we have the ability to deal with one crisis at a time so this postal crisis has sort of gotten pushed down but I think in another time it would probably rank number one to two in terms of the problems we're dealing with here a company of the big problems that we're dealing with at the post offices is one be the old. Civil Service Retirement System required be post office.

The United States Postal Service to over pay the pension benefits for workers. Back when the these workers were actually employees of the federal government as opposed to being employees of the United States Postal Service. So the overpayment over these years amounts to about 65 billion dollars. So if if the proper reconciliation were made financially the federal government would pay over to the United States Postal Service about 65 billion dollars. That would solve a lot of their short term problems and maybe some of the medium term problems. And then on top of that on top of a 65 billion dollar overpayment by the postal service then about 11 billion that has been overpaid into the Federal Employee Retirement System which is the current system but that is has been established to replace the old C SRS.

So if you look at those overpayments. You know if if the Postal Service were able to obtain those revenues from the federal government which they are owed financially they would be in much better condition. Unfortunately because of the financial difficulty we're encountering nationally the Obama administration is low to try to make that repay repayment because it would score in the budgetary analysis that Congress uses and that the Congressional Budget Office use it so it would troll. It would violate the house rules on on balancing the budget and pay as you go. And so it's one of those issues that the administration doesn't want to see come up on the table right now but unfortunately I think at least addressing part of those problems has to be part of the solution and

that's what my bill actually tries to do. Yeah I want to talk a bit the bill is H.R. 1 3 5 1. There are a number of bills that have been sort of in the mix about trying to fix the situation. Your bill is has been highly positively received as a way to go forward. What does your bill do. Well it actually requires the federal government and the post office to reconcile those financial differences. And that would allow. A plan to to be launched to look it will buy time basically because you know behind all of this you do have a reduction in mail volume that is about heart of long term structural problems of the post office. We have probably 9 billion pieces of mail in volume off of optics annually and in the United States since the 2000 and 7

summer 2007 2008 financial crisis so you know insurance companies credit card companies. The law firms everybody is mailing less and and there is a gradual shift to electronic mail. So we have to right size the post office. We have thirty five thousand Post Offices out there. That served a much larger volume. It cannot 12 years ago as opposed to what they addressed now so we're going to have to have some clothes and no question about it we're going to have to have a a right sizing if you will of the post office and we've got to determine which post offices are going to have to be closed. Now most of those most of the redundancy in the system is really in urban areas where I was an ironworker for 18 years and every time we to a high rise either in Boston or New York

we would automatically pop a post office down the first floor to handle that MIL volume now. The problem is that that class a opposite base that the Post Office occupies comes at a very high price and. And so we're going to have to look at in so doing some consolidations preferably in those areas where there wouldn't be a huge impact. You have folks in one high rise sending their you know in Chicago in Los Angeles and Boston sending them mail across the street to another post office and that would help us to reduce the the overhead that where we're encountering what the overall system. Well Representative Lynch thank you so much for taking time out of your day today to join us to talk about it we're going to continue the conversation. We're talking about the U.S. Postal Service and what it will mean if it follows through on closing down close to 3700 post offices across the country we were joined by U.S. Congressman Stephen Lynch representing Massachusetts ninth district. He's a sponsor of a

new bill that would overhaul the pension system for postal workers. We've got lots of conversation coming your way and time for you to call in 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. We're talking postal workers letter carriers all sorts of stuff right here on the Kelly Crossley Show on WGBH radio. The. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Orchard cove the independent senior community in Canton 12 miles from Boston is making exciting changes that will inspire residents to engage explore and live a healthier life. Special savings for new depositors at Orchard Gold live dot org. And from the Boston speakers Series 7 evenings of personal perspectives and insights at Boston Symphony Hall featuring Tom Brokaw Valerie

Plame-Wilson David McCullough and others. Information at Boston speakers series dot org. On the next FRESH AIR we discuss House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy and his influence on the Tea Party freshman with journalist Robert Draper in Draper's recent New York Times magazine article he wrote McCarthy recruited many of them and anointed them young guns. Draper has been covering the debt ceiling debate for his forthcoming book about the house. Joining us this afternoon at two on eighty nine point seven WGBH. Hi I'm Bob Seger from WGBH radio. August 30 1st marks the end of the fiscal year for the station and that means eighty nine point seven is less than one month to balance all of the budgets that pay for all of the programs that you depend on. So if you

haven't done so already play start over the New Year WGBH membership with a gift in any amount called 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4. Or give securely Ahmad at WGBH dot org. And thanks. The latest local news headlines are as close as your smartphone with the new WGBH app. Single tap keeps you up to date with headlines from business to arts and culture. Just a free download away at the App Store or learn more about GBH dot org. Good afternoon I'm Sue O'Connell in for Kelly Krause Lee this is the Kelley cross show we're talking about the United States Postal Service. And what's at stake if they close down over 3500 post offices across the nation. Now I'm joined by John Kass E.A. the National Business Agent for the New England association doing the National Association of Letter Carriers. Also with me is Richard John a professor of history the history of communications at Columbia

University's Graduate School of Journalism. He's the author of spreading the news the American Postal System from Franklin to Morse. And Frank were Jiro the National Business Agent for the New England division of the American Postal Workers Union. Welcome to all of you. We're also bringing in your calls 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. Richard I'd like to start with you. Maybe if you could give us just a quick primer of of the Postal Service our letter carriers how it sort of came to be I'm a huge Ben Franklin fan. I always believe that all roads lead to Ben Franklin so. Besides his self-interest What else did Ben Franklin have in mind when he came up with this idea. Well the Post Office as we know it today was actually not Franklin's idea but it was rather an idea hammered out in the first and second federal Congresses and the idea was to provide access to ordinary people to information on public affairs particularly newspapers. And that was an idea that

Franklin under the Imperial post office and even the post office in the early years of the country really didn't envision. And that created a series of subsidies whereby newspapers would make up as much as 90 percent of the weight of the mail and they'd pay never more than 15 percent of the revenue. So right from the start it was a civic mandate to make information on public affairs accessible to Americans in rural areas as well as urban areas because in addition to the newspaper subsidy you have a policy that permits very easy creation of new new offices in some ways that's the issue we're still dealing with today. All these little post offices scattered across the country. And I think it's safe to say Professor that it's not the best certainly one of the best mail delivery systems in the world. It's a remarkable institution. It's one of our most successful national ventures over 200 years old. Estimates I've seen about half of the world's mail volume generated here in the United States. And as an

institution it offers operates under very peculiar constraints because it is not free like a business to hire and fire more or less at will it's not free even to settle such a simple matter seemingly as to where it would operate operate. It's a syllabus so it's under a great deal of strain which is due to its history but it has a very proud legacy and it's one I think a civic legacy providing access to Americans information that is very much worth preserving and therefore we should take these current debates very seriously. John frankly the congressman yeah I want to get you both in in the conversation as well and from an urban perspective you know we're sitting here in the hall some brought in Boston area and many of the services that we get on a regular basis from the post office we sort of take for granted and you know frankly there are some places that we you know we can buy stamps somewhere else or we can go get a form somewhere else but in the rural areas of America the post office is a lifeline in many

places. Yes so first off thank you for having me. You're absolutely right about rural America. One of the issues that the Postal Service is contending with right now is the detaining going to five day delivery as opposed to the current six day delivery that's still mandated by Congress. And as a representative the letter carriers union obviously we were in opposition to reducing any any of the amount of delivery days. And you hit on one of the keynotes and that is rural America is would be adversely and detrimental the affected by a reduction in any delivery days. I use the example of for instance if there was a holiday on Monday and there was no delivery on Saturday. Well those Americans would would get mail delivery on Friday and they would not see the letter carrier again to the following Tuesday. And in the instances of.

Many Americans now myself included received prescription medications through the mail and that people needing medications could possibly have to wait three four days for them. I'm smiling as you say this because the younger folks in the office were talking about Netflix and we're all talking about prescriptions. You know it does provide an important service. The other issue of course which I'm struck by is that we recently a few years ago I think had a drill in delivering a practice drill delivering the antidote to if there was an anthrax infection I believe you're shaking as you probably know better than I. Yes. And who best to deliver all of the medicines if needed in an emergency than the postal carriers and if I recall correctly it was it was well done in well received. It was yeah you're correct it was done in conjunction with the United States Postal Service and the Homeland Security. We have Boston was one of the test cities on a

Sunday letter carriers delivered to each household. A. A small box of medication obviously nothing in it and in the test but it was a test with law enforcement homeland security Postal Service said in the event of a catastrophic attack a catastrophe that the letter carriers and postal employees could could act in tandem to. To get right out nobody knows all streets and homes and neighborhoods better than your letter carrier John of course represents the letter carriers Frank you represent the folks on the inside. You know the challenges here with the technology I think which were faced by every business with some of the remarkable things that the machines at the post office can do in reading and writing and sorting is. It must be a concern with the shutdown. The proposed shutdown that folks will lose jobs but on the other hand is their opportunity for for

job training and maybe a different type of in addition of a different type of postal employee. Well I'm not so sure about the job training right off but we have you know all the automation that's come in since I started I started a post office in 1984 think John started prior to me and I've just seen the change from most of everything was being done manually. The biggest mechanization machine we had at the time was a lot of sorting machine and over the period of time of twenty something years that I've been involved in postal services has made tremendous gains in it and automating facilities and our members work on that automated mail on those automated machines. And you know we're just there's still plenty of work for us to do. We've had it. We have actually gone through.

As through attrition no one's ever been laid off from the postal service but through attrition we've continued to decline our membership has declined tremendously. The clerks that I represent have have decreased even from I was looking at some of the numbers before we came on 1099 to now we've we've gone down one hundred forty one thousand clerks. Those are clerks that work on the window work in the processing plants. And you know many of them you don't see because they work midnight shifts and swing shifts toward three what we call but we've gone that that number of one hundred forty one thousand back in 99 we had two hundred ninety two thousand plus calorically a big big drop it's over 48 percent. Professor John you know what. Some of the things that the post office can do to either increase revenues or keep its relevance I mean obviously the first thing that comes to mind is use the

post office itself as a place where folks can can do other things. Maybe register to vote or or buy certain government things that they can't get other places and at the same time I mean I know that as a business person myself I remember that I had a whole bunch of arts kids who would come in with envelopes from the post office because they could get them for free. You know and I know based on the information that Frank just shared with us I do everything I can to avoid going into the post office because I know the staffing is a nightmare and I know if I want to go in and get the special stamps for Christmas or for holiday mailings they might be out. You know it's sort of like the advertising doesn't match what the staffing is actually able to do and it ends up being a completely frustrating experience. What are some things that the post office can do. Well Congressman Lynch I think raised a good point. He alluded to the recent proposal that's been floated to close some of the post

offices in rural areas and also in cities or to turn some of these offices into what's being called Village post offices. And that's an interesting idea. It has a very resonates very strongly in our history in the idea that you'd have a storekeeper who would be working part time for the post office who would provide some of the facilities at the post office has traditionally provided certainly before the Civil War for much of our history we did not have free standing post offices and somehow we managed at least outside of the major cities and given the magnitude of the fiscal crisis that's an issue I think that the post office might want to entertain in terms of new in terms of new ventures. They both of us had great difficulty getting into electronic mail in part for legal reasons but I certainly do think that to the extent that the Post Offices can begin to provide the kinds of facilities that those of us in urban areas take for granted it Fedex U.P.S.. I think that that would be to the benefit of the institution.

We're taking your calls You're listening to the Kelly Crossley Show here on WGBH I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly. We're talking about all things post office you can join us at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. Chris joins us from Salem Chris welcome to the galley Crosley show what's on your mind. Thank you for taking my call I really appreciate this too. You're welcome. So I just had one real quick thing. You know as far as closing post offices are concerned you know people in the rural areas they definitely you know they need those post-ops that's their lifeline. My question to your panel or or anyone listening is you know has the Post Office. Looked into other alternatives and I mean other alternatives as far as you know per year how much of the post office spending gas and vehicle maintenance and most importantly how much of the spending and health insurance costs for the drivers. I contacted actually representative Lynch's office. I hope to hear back from them soon. I had an idea to develop a pedi cab I'm not sure if anybody is familiar with that. A petty

cab that can be used in place of vehicles to deliver mail and I just wondering if anybody on your panel has any idea about alternative uses for the post office service. Great question Chris thanks so much for joining us. John certainly the Segway was was a conversation for a little while and as you know the difficulty of getting off and delivering the mail and back and forth but what are some of the forward thinking ideas of ways that the post office can save money and make life better for Letter Carriers at the same time. Well the Postal Service is. Trying to go green as they say to the best of their ability and as Professor John had mentioned earlier in some of his comments they are not free to act completely and entirely on their own they have to work a little bit about that. I mean I don't want to jump in the middle of your answer but the structure of how the post office works you know I've got I've had friends and relatives who work there and it's this sort of

quasi military you know structure which I guess work perfectly well when it started but now it's sort of groans against the current the current day. Well it's highly regulated let's let's put it that way it has all the sea is such as this is a board of governors. It's those members who are appointed by the president of the United States. There's a Postal Regulatory Commission that oversees any requests for instance of stamp postage increases and whatnot. And there's the Congress itself which as we speak there's hearings going on consistently overseeing the Postal Service Congressman Lynch who was on at the beginning at the top of the show. Until recently when the change of the House of Representatives switched from Democratic control to Republican control the good congressman was the actual the actual

chairperson of the postal Oversight Committee. Now it's a Republican current congressman by the name of Darrell Issa who is from California who certainly has his own perspectives on with the postal service that is there. Is there anybody sitting down saying OK what are some ways that we can we can think of things you know is there is there an arm among all of this bureaucracy that that saying yes there is for instance like how are you and then the letter carriers Union we meet with the postal service. We don't feel the the management of the postal service and all aspects as necessarily our adversaries. We want to work with them when we can which is often not often enough for a frog likes and wants all the time. But to ensure that this great organization this old it over 200 year old institution will survive in this in this challenging times of electronic diversion and others. As for the caller and

sue you mention the segue I can remember going up to New Hampshire. We have that company in the event it was up there whose name escapes me come to me in a moment. And being asked to test the Segway. Now for different different reasons. It didn't it wasn't the Postal Service made the decision not to purchase the segues and great and great quantities but they are there. They're trying to move their fleet into environmentally acceptable natural gas and others go green. If you would because every penny increase in the price of gasoline the Postal Service maintains to much to my recollection that the largest fleet other than the military the largest fleet of vehicles in the world in the world. So every even a penny increase in the price of gasoline has a substantial impact on the Postal Service is bottom line.

The voices in my head tell me that Dean Kaman Dean Kamen the inventor of thank you way to say who invented the medical drip. If you take that in for a laugh my head and it all comes clear you have a you have a point Frank. Yeah what I was going to say is part of the problem with let's say for instance and I'm just you know this isn't anything that has been floated out there because let me just give you an example. If the postal service was going to go into some other way. Business a business revenue stream revenue. Yeah let's talk a revenue stream let's say they're going to sell milk. That's not the case. OK. But I just want to make it clear I want some of calling up later and saying you know we we're going to melt. But if we're going to sell the problem is the postal service could be seen as competition with the private sector that's selling milk. OK that's that's what we have is a problem so if we can't. We would there would be forces that would say that you know you can't go into the milk's selling business and the monopoly situation I would imagine you know with a monopoly on first class mail.

Right. You know so farcical OK so that is a reason why the post office hasn't been more aggressive in. I mean I see it like you were shaking your head vigorously I was not you John had just mentioned something about that because we can't really branch out into other things because of the law. Right. That's one of the reasons why we can't you know go into some other avenue was because Congress has basically in a box of delivering mail you know what I'm stance and aggressive overnight delivery when I was talking about how I go in to get you know avoid going to the post office. You know more than anyplace else when I'm in there. My patience is tested. You know I get the lines you know the folks are harried behind the counter usually doing their best to stay. My guess is you're not in a rural post you know I'm not I mean it's OK so. So I just want to make it clear that I post offices and the cities are different. We're also extremely busy not just you know because we talk about well if we lose something you know we need to sort of I'm already standing and we need we need to serve all of America that's what that's what the Postal Service does but what I was I was just talking about how they you know they market special

stamps and you go in and you can't get them and you have to wait in line and you know to like what. Where's the disconnect between the sort of marketing department and the folks on the ground who who understand that you know anyone knows if you drive in business. I guarantee on an eye Saturday for our 15 percent tax deduction. Break on the big sale that Massachusetts is having the sales tax sale they'll be fully staffed. But the post office the folks in charge of the post office don't seem to get that part. It's a real problem because just for example if you went in there to want to purchase something at Christmas time across a special Christmas stamp they have a what have you. I think that they do run out of things. I mean there is no more frustration I get from calls and there's nothing I can do and it's not even the employee that's working on the window they want to service the customer. Part of that is is that is is poor planning somebody could come in and wipe out all what they have in stock that epochal or office you know and buy a large amount for whatever reason and they don't have any left. They print

so much to get it out they use but they use it. The past history of you know purchases stuff like that to try to fill the stock of say special stamps or something like that but. You know and sometimes that can be a problem they may have to go to the post office down the street. I mean we don't want to see that happen. Obviously it's very frustrating for people who work on the on the AS window and customer service people. You're listening to the Kelly Crossley Show here on WGBH we are talking all things postal we would like your calls 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 we're going to take a quick break when we come back we're going to talk a little bit about the architecture and the Americana of the United States Post Office join us 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 Hill listening to the Kelly Crossley Show on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Support for WGBH comes from you and from the castle group celebrating its

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o'clock here at eighty nine point seven. The power behind public radio is listener support. And just this summer your support has meant stories like this in some places it's so hot that asphalt has been buckling. He really can affect the elderly. We have to start thinking about heat waves just like a tornado or tsunami. And we recommend a mosque. It's yogurt with water and if that work is good. Yes it does it's working for a billion people in India. That's what listener support means to WGBH show your support at WGBH dot org. The latest local news headlines are as close as your smartphone with the new WGBH app with a single tap you can dig deeper into the news of the day from business to arts and culture. Just a free download away at the App Store or at WGBH dot org. Welcome back I'm Sue O'Connell in for Kelly Crossley This is the Kelly Crossley Show if you're just joining us we're talking about the United States Postal Service and

what's at stake if they follow through on closing down over 3600 Post Office new post offices nationwide. My guests today are John Kass E.A. He's with the New England National Association of Letter Carriers. Richard John who is a professor at Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalism and the author of spreading the news the American Postal System from Franklin to Morse. And Frank we're Jiro of the New England division of the American Postal Workers Union we're taking your calls at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 we are going to jump over to our friend Robin in the car on line one. Robin joins us Hey Robin. Thanks for being here. Robin Hood if they rob us it could be Rob. Right. OK thank you Robert for joining us. You're running a very interesting program. Thank you what's on your mind. Well about 90 percent of the mail I get every day

and I get a lot of I am of mail I live in the back 90 percent of it is commercial and charitable requests which come under a special rate which I'm sure Congress has imposed on the post office. It seems to me a fact can be eliminated but it be a great cost saving in addition to the pool of postman to deliver so I wouldn't have these enormous sacks back at the speed that it seems to me that it has to. We shouldn't be subsidizing all these corporations to send but some people call it junk mail the charities are even worse my wife and I have about 200 that around I witnessed a moment the contribution is made that using e-mail privileges to solicit us again a way over here and we're paying for them at the post office. Jack I go to the post office back to a post office. The people are very wonderful but there was a line and now a long wait and people were having their want to chill with me what I want to jump in Robert thanks.

Thanks for your call. Going to jump over to you Frank you're nodding in agreement. First of all I thank him for the nice comments he had for the people who work in the Back Bay I preach that I know they well and you know he talks about the 90 percent of his mail that comes in his commercial commercial that gets special rates. That was something the Postal Service started sometime back. What they do is we've had we have the Postal Service has pretty bundling mail. What they do is corporations or. Whatever large companies will take to mail to a mailing house that's a privately owned private sector. Many of these are owned by large corporations now and what they do is they say they wrote all these pieces of mail to go to a specific letter carrier. OK so it bypasses everybody else in the Postal Service goes to us a lot of carriers so it so there are some less in a way. Right but worse what if I'm a

company I go to the I go to the if I go to this this outside agency that that is bundling and routing and routing mail I'll get a discount. I won't pay 44 cents for a lot of so there's I pay a lot less if I had taken a lot less for the post office for this and it right going to rob them is is that we could do that. We've been saying this for quite some time now. We believe we can do that for less than right the postal workers could. The problem we have is though is now this is a huge huge you know. Part of what is part of the business and they go that lobbyist. They're not going to. They're making money they're making profits off of this. And there's no way we're going to have a you know get back I just want to say talk about profits. The postal service breaks even. Yes that's a point we haven't brought up yet I mean it's often actually if we had a while back out this prepayment and kill it it's been and it's been a federal company if you will I know it right but that it actually does turn a profit where

off the budget basically we are self-sufficient. When you buy a stamp that's what pays for the salaries everything else but we're a breakeven right now and that's how we've done it we usually have a little bit of it used to be a rate cycle of every three years with the increased and cost of stamps the first year we made a little money. Second year we broke even the next year we usually will last we're going to overall what was broke. We're going to go through line 1 Pam joins us Pam welcome to the Kelley costly show what's on your mind. Hi thank you. I just wanted to say I didn't even say I was in the area and my post is wonderful. So there is a vast you know it's I want to compliment them on bad. I wonder sometimes. So how can we do more shopping online because. Hearing the conversation people don't want to go to the post office and I have a tip for people who don't want to go go early go late.

Are they out of their lives. You know what they want and that's great if you have thanks so much. You know in a importantly they go on Saturdays it's what we do. John and I both the international lenders Association led a carriage an American Postal Workers Union you know against this whole idea of dropping down to five day delivery. We've got a lot of people that only hit the post office on a Saturday. We want to make sure that we keep that we're going to do everything in our power that we can collectively to keep that keep that going you know we've been talking about the sort of personal business of the post office but the e-bay and the Netflix I mean if folks really break down if you take out you know as much as I love Robert's comment there are things I really you know I do look at the coupons you know I do like to get solicited for stuff I like that it's I don't have to go online to do it I could do it walking up the stairs and keep what I want and recycle what I don't but there are a lot of businesses that rely and it's not just U.P.S. and FedEx but you know rely on the Postal Service to get

their goods back and forth. That's an interesting point. You hit upon Sue and. First off let me fact both the previous caller Robert for his kind words about the Back Bay post office where I started my Medicare in Korea and Pam for her kind words. Also Pam should know that there are many online USPS dot gov. There are. Most. Most things need. She needs to accomplish with the postal service can be can be pretty much accomplished online including even putting you letters out whether it's a rural letter carrier or a city letter carrier depending upon where you live to be picked up. Read it read write it right at your doorstep. But what we're hearing here overall is that the impression I'm getting is people appreciate and more want the Postal Service to continue. Going to every house every day six days a week because they like it and it's

important to note because there are some media outlets. This is not one of them I can assure you. There are some media outlets and newspaper publications that kind of for their own interests. They skew the the real story of what's happening here. It's very important to note because this I still get this more frequently than than I would care to hear. Many Americans still believe that their taxes fun the United States Postal Service. It's not true. It's actually the I think and Professor Richard you've written John you can jump into I think that it's the actually the only government agency that isn't funded by taxes. You know that's right and if the relationship of the post office and the Treasury is sort of fascinating when the historical point I think that's worth bringing out is that there really has never been a time in our history when the

postal deficit troubled a lot of Americans. The institution ran a deficit from the 1840s almost every year of the 20th century but it never became a kind of lightning rod for discontent other things agitate Americans including I think this is junk mail issue which I do believe is a serious one but whether or not the post office lost a million dollars made it you know made a million dollars and then had to expand services has just never been an issue that large numbers of Americans or their lawmakers have wanted to make a stinking fuss about. You're listening to the Kelly Crossley Show here on WGBH of course we were talking before the show about the mail carriers of old who used to you know be in a less structured schedule if you will and could stop and visit over the fence with you and I vividly recall growing up you know in Revere in the 60s and having a mailman as we used to call them then who would just stop by and visit for a bit in the south and at South End news where I am. We do South

and favorites every year and Chris because stars who is a mail carrier there in the south and it's famous in the South and for his his friendly face and his I would be remiss if I didn't give him a shout out and I know he would. I know you know be very unhappy at Starbucks if I ran into him but the history of the postal carrier is is great we're going to jump over to line two and speak with Emily Emily is calling us from Grafton Welcome to the Kelley cross show. Emily Yeah. Welcome to the show what's on your mind. Thank you. Well again I don't I mean even a feller's well and but mostly I am somebody who was in a small town in North Grafton and I know my postmaster gave me his. Phone number and you now and you know my every person who has been my mail carrier I had you know on a first name basis and you know they stopped for a minute. Like you were sort of thing has gone out of style but a few words and you know

maybe they're bottled water or something before going on their way. And my mail always arrive within the same half hour I'm Graham and I just I feel like the post office that you look at it and I really appreciate it and you know that and you know and so I just you know I know think that I think a lot of flak from the community and I wish it wasn't that way. They do a great job. Emily thanks so much to you call you know Frank I have a business in the south end. And when ever our mail carrier was on vacation it was it would be a nightmare. I mean seriously we'd be calling the post office. He would warn us when he was going on vacation and then we moved to South Boston which I thought would be better because we're closer to the big headquarters in South Boston and found out that a lot of the things I've probably given him up now but a lot of the things he did for us he wasn't really supposed to do for us in that our mail because we were now in the zone with the headquarters. You know things were a little you could not always like you know give us the extra TLC we were looking for. And it's just like

back to the sort of monstrosity of the organization. You know it's sort of like if the folks inside and the folks on the street who work for the post office were able just to speak to the powers that be and say OK here's what we do to make the mail happen every day. Yeah. You know we have a sickness because we actually like working for the cost off. Yeah. You know it's great. It's very we do our best no matter what no matter what kind of roadblocks put in our way. There's no doubt about it. But all right well let's talk a little bit about some some ideas that our callers have about ways to cut we're going to jump over to Alan Alan is calling us from Rhode Island Allan welcome to the Calla Crossley Show. Thank you for taking my call. My pleasure I just wanted to comment on the number of rural post offices in this area and I hate to see anybody lose their jobs in the service out here is great but just as an example we have in the eastern part of Connecticut the little village of oh Niko there's a post office and you down the road.

I'm on it and. You're eight minutes and your car is one in sterling and another one and most of all five 10 minutes away. I understand at closing that one of the central villages you could almost walk to for most of it in Rhode Island in the western part we have one in hope which is a brand new post office but they never closed the one down the road it's about 15 minutes walk and since Phil thanks sound I think I've received a call but I'm pleased to see that the Post Office is looking into this type of thing that cost is going to be horrendous. Thanks Ellen for your call I'm going to jump to Professor Richard John professor here is a situation where we have this evolving world where things change in population shift. And as I mentioned before the break we also in many cases have beautiful buildings where the post offices are there just architecturally representative of the era that they were built. You know what are we to do are we are we in a nimble way where we can relocate post

offices or combine And what about the architecture. Well a beautiful post office buildings originated in 1970s and the great heyday was probably nineteen thousand nine hundred thirty forties. And I you know I have I share your sense that there are wonderful monuments so many of them are filled with murals that were done the 1030 justice train stations are no longer used for a train station to the extent that they were I think we have to find creative reuses for these big buildings and in some instances if we could enable the post office to sell real estate and make some money on it that might help their bottom line. But I don't think that we will again need these grand urban spaces and even some of the middle sized post offices that we've taken for granted rather are real anchors and community often the most handsome structure in a community was the was the post office. But certainly when this country was founded

there was no monumental architecture for the post office and the typical post office was in a small town and it was in a store and it was a counter at 2:00 and maybe in Rhode Island that would be an idea worth worth entertaining. We're going to jump to the phones and speak with Mark. Mark you're calling from Lemberg Massachusetts. What's on your mind Welcome to the Kelly Crossley Show. Well thank you very much. I'm a first time all or first time caller longtime listener. Yeah. Yeah. First time long time. What I want to say is that the Post Office is a wonderful irreplaceable cultural icon but also an irreplaceable service. There have been many companies sprung up and and succeeded in trying to augment what the post office but never have been able to replace it because of its efficiency. And the thing that's disappointing to me is that some of the post offices counter

intuitive actions and policies and things like that but also that they're trying to do the same thing they've been doing for a couple hundred years without involving those services to accommodate the way that the world has evolved. Now aside from technology there are there are many ways that the post office. But expand and broaden the spectrum of IT services for you. Can you tell me that you think technology you mean example Mark is that. Well for one thing I think. The post office but be an coward to provide a proprietary email system that would be spam free that anybody that uses it would be there is that their identity would be certified by the government and that anybody that wants to use the US Postal Mail electronically or physically could have a measure of security has as well as the efficiency and

it would be a bona fide way for us to really brings out the post office. Well Margaret that's a great idea. We're running out of time so I'm going to cut you off but that is a great idea. I want to jump back over to Frank for a second to talk about the bill the importance as we wrap up the show here that it really is a crisis for for the post office in terms of our financial health certainly the mail will get delivered but the bill that Senator Lynch representative Lynch has introduced is an important right and I know with a close on time here but I just want to say that the reason why we're in this position is because of the 2006 postal postal countability Enhancement Act. And that's why we why we're in the position now because requited 5 billion dollars per year which is not overfunded but. Congress basically there's no money in the bank for the $7 billion dollar stuff right at X right and we can't you know we can't function and at the end of September probably close to the end of a

super September. The Postal Service is going to run out of money. And Frank of course this is a it's just an important thing that even though we're in this economic meltdown in this bad news every day it seems. But you know this is a basic service that people need to get in contact with their representatives. This is something that well I can tell you this. Every single congressman in Massachusetts OK is on board with the with co-sponsoring Congressman Lynch's bill. We have across the country 41 percent of all Congressman men and women on on as a co-sponsor. We're going to keep pushing that had us you know with it with the unions because you know it's not fair to watch to have to pay that kind of money to prefund no private sector does it. No neither does the rest of the federal government required to have that. Requirement under the law. So since then 2006 we've had the economic crisis

the financial the financial crisis and where we are today has brought us to this point along with e-mail and everything else but this postal service has been around since 1776 tying this whole nation together every American. We're going to keep doing an hour just isn't enough to touch on it so thanks so much for joining us I've been talking about the U.S. Postal Service THIS HOUR with John Kass E.A. of the New England National Association of Letter Carriers I did not ask him if it's OK to tip your your postal carrier so we'll leave that for another time. Richard John a professor at Columbia University's Graduate School of Journalism and author of spreading the news the American Postal System from Franklin to Morse and Frank were Jiro of the New England division of the American Postal Workers Union. I'm Sue O'Connell I'm in for Kelly Crossley I'll be back tomorrow to talk presidential politics yet. The Kelly Crossley Show is a production of WGBH radio Boston's NPR station for news in culture.