WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

Time Sue O'Connell. This is like Kelly Crossley Show. It's a Patrick's Day which means green beer. Corned beef and no end of parades where the rituals are typically over-the-top enroll in Missouri they take to the streets with mops to paint the sidewalks Kelly Green in New Orleans. They throw the makings of the Irish Stew cabbage and carrots into the streets. And in Chicago they die the river green here in Boston. We've banned the gays from the parade. It's a tradition dating back to 1995 when the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously voted to allow Boston St. Patty's Day organizers to ban gay groups from marching. How is it that on a day when we celebrate who we are with such palpable pride we continue to discriminate against our gay brothers and sisters from there. We raise a glass to the other St. Patrick's Day tradition good libations. But first the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Nancy Lyons. Japan is still trying to deal

with overheating reactors at the damaged nuclear plant in Fukushima. NPR's Dan Charles says it has been a tough assignment. The most urgent priority is to get water into these storage ponds where used nuclear fuel is being held they want to cool the fuel down but also try to cover it with water to reduce the radiation load which has really been hampering efforts. They've they've used helicopters to scoop up buckets huge buckets of water from the sea and try to drop it down on the the ponds that has not worked very well. They've also brought in water cannons. The real sort of step forward would be to bring in power they're streaming a temporary power line if they can get the pumps working the more permanent pumps that would really make progress possible. NPR's Dan Charles reporting. The Japanese government is telling residents not to overreact to the risk of radiation exposure but that's not calming many people. Reinhardt Rall of South Africa says he's leaving. I don't worry about the quakes. I mean I was on the 18th floor of innocense building and.

We felt safe and all the stuff looted by the looks of. A morning. You know used a nuke in South Africa. We don't have it. Face to get. So I'm going to more about that. The Obama administration is chartering planes to carry U.S. government personnel and their families out. It's urging Americans to stay at least 50 miles away from the crippled reactor. U.S. officials say there is little threat radiation from Japan will reach the U.S. but as a precaution they say they are deploying more radiation monitors in the western U.S. and Pacific territories. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission says the decision was made quote out of an abundance of caution. The plan is to have the new monitors operational by the end of the week. A tough new Justice Department review says police in New Orleans used too much force and made stops that violated the Constitution. The Obama administration says New Orleans police also engaged in racial profiling. NPR's Carrie Johnson reports on the 11 month investigation. New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu asked the Justice Department to investigate his city's troubled

police force last year. Department leaders traveled to New Orleans to announce their findings and they're sobering. Investigators say too many police in the city deployed excessive force. They failed to help people with limited English skills and they didn't do enough to investigate rape and domestic violence. Deputy attorney general Jim Cole says he hopes the findings will help the city rebuild its police department and restore people's trust. Carrie Johnson NPR News Washington. Several rosier economic reports are lifting stocks today after yesterday's drop the biggest in seven months. The number of people applying for unemployment benefits fell more than expected last week and inflation in consumer prices was relatively tame in February. The Dow is up one hundred forty two points the NASDAQ is up 35. The S&P is up 17. This is NPR. Pakistani officials sources say at least 17 suspected militants have been killed in an area of north Waziristan by a U.S. drone missile attack from Lahore

and Julie McCarthy says Other reports put the death toll as high as 34 from the strike and say many of the dead included civilians. It was an unusually deadly strike in Pakistan's tribal areas. Intelligence officials told news agencies that it illegibly targeted a meeting of some three dozen suspected militants who are said to be discussing plans to send a new group of fighters across the border to battle NATO's troops in Afghanistan. But local tribesmen are quoted as saying the drones also fired missiles at their meeting discussing a local land dispute. It is impossible to verify such accounts on the no go tribal area. The attack came one day after the release of CIA contractor Raymond Davis. He was acquitted of murder when the families of the men he shot forgave him and were compensated some 2 million dollars. Analysts suggest that the U.S. and Pakistan may feel less restrained now that Davis is no longer an issue. Julie McCarthy NPR News louer. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says a U.N. no fly zone over Libya would

require bombing specific targets to reduce the threat from Moammar Gadhafi's forces. She says no ground intervention is being considered. The New York Times is maintaining hope four of its journalists who've been missing in Libya since Tuesday are still alive. The four were last in contact with editors Tuesday. They were in the northern port city of where they were covering the retreat of rebels. The paper's executive editor says there are unconfirmed reports the four were detained at a government checkpoint. I'm Nancy Alliance NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from IBM working to help mid-sized businesses become the engines of a Smarter Planet. More and more at IBM dot com slash engines. Good afternoon I'm Sue O'Connell in for Kelly Krause Lee. This is the Kelly Krause Lee show. It's a Patrick's Day which means of course corn beef green beer. And in Boston no gays in the weekend. South Boston St. Patrick's Day

parade it's a tradition here in Boston dating back to 1995 when the U.S. Supreme Court you nana nana mostly voted to allow Boston's St. Patty's Day Parade organizers to ban gay groups from marching. And joining me now to talk about the ban are at large Boston city councilor Felix Arroyo at large Boston city councilor presently and Kathleen Finn Finn who's a self-described Irish-American bisexual. In the 1990s fought a legal battle to get permission to march in the parade. Welcome to all of you. We're taking your calls your listeners 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. Are you pro-gay but don't know what the big fuss is are you marching in the parade are you going to support the band. Are you Irish and gay and looking for an alternative parade. 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 is the number to dial. Thanks for joining us today and Happy St. Patrick's Day. Thank you.

So I want to start with with you Kathleen because you know you were there we were there I was there on the frontlines back I think it was 1990 2 or 3 when the gay and lesbian veterans Irish veterans wanted to march in the parade and did for a couple of years. And their reaction was one of the worst public displays of open hostility and discrimination that Boston had seen in a while. So first of all so happy same path they did. Thank you. So today's a day of celebration of our Irish heritage. I was there in 92 and 93 when a real varied group of Irish Americans came together to march under court order. We had tried to talk with and work with the parade organizers. We wanted to have a group participate in the spirit of the day. And we were excluded. And so it was a very hard situation. It was a mixed day though. What was interesting is we had supporters in South Boston and as well as people who weren't happy about us being there. And sometimes those folks came

from the same families. So I think the situation and the experience was this really started some conversation going about gay rights within the city of Boston. You know it's the history of the parade is one that's somewhat complicated as well as we were talking before we came on air and always I need to be re-educated or reminded about the history because the Supreme Court decision in 1905 basically and I want to kind of a layman here it a bit decided that since the parade was a private function even though in the past the city of Boston sponsored it and there are certainly on the city roads and there were firefighters in it since it's a private function much like the Boy Scouts are a private organization they're allowed to discriminate. And in the end even though that wasn't where the parade organizers started they ended up arguing a sort of First Amendment protection argument and that's where the Supreme Court came down on their side. So basically what they did was. In terms of the court case they had to keep changing the argument to try to find one that would work for them. And so it did change over

time. In the beginning we were perceived that we were going to be somehow disruptive and not respectful of the tradition. And then over time it changed. And both your parents were born in Ireland correct my parents are from Ireland I am 100 percent Irish. I am very proud to be Irish. And at the same time as I came into maturity as a woman I also discovered that I was bisexual and so these are two parts of my identity that I really wanted to be able to bring those together as part of the celebration for St. Patrick's Day. And the other part that's important to note and we did ask the organizers to join us on the show and to chat with us but it's important to know that there are gays lesbians and bisexuals who do march in the parade. It's not that you have to show your straight card in order to get in the parade and certainly some staffers of. Other elected officials march alongside the elected officials but the organizers just don't want a gay group marching. What's interesting is if you compare this to what some of the other things that were going on in the early

90s in fact the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy was passed in terms of preventing people from serving openly in military. This is very similar to that it's saying yes you can march but we don't really want to know who you are so that has now been repealed. So over time things change public opinion changes. And so it's basically something of how do we get this into the focus. And so I do appreciate you actually having this as a topic many people are not aware that the parade is still exclusive it excludes people from marching openly. Kathleen are you in Dorchester. Are you a dot out member. I do it just out as a group of gay lesbian bisexual transgender political folks who get together. I'm not part of dot out but we actually have a group here in Brighton right right called about right now because I know that in Dorchester the Dorchester Day Parade. Thought out marches and gets rave reviews from the sidelines I mean I know I live in

Canton and all of the you know in the Irish Riviera as we like to say and all of my Dorchester folk want dot T-shirts you know the straight guy so that they can wear them to dot out it's a very similar type of neighborhood but very different reactions actually. You know during the era of glue we were invited to march in the Dorchester Day parade and we did. And the diversity of people who came up and really wanted to shake our hands and thank us because it's really there are these fault lines within the city that we find ourselves revisiting over time. And so we need to look to the future and see how can we heal some of these divisions and really live up to the potential of the diversity that's part of the city the sore spot for me as a lesbian and an Irish person Irish-American with the St. Patrick's Day parade in South Boston is often the argument that it's a family day and the behavior that was exhibited toward some of the behavior in the vast majority of behavior.

I think you're downplaying a little bit of the sidelines that was directed toward the marchers was just violence so many ways that it was not a family day event people who want to go somewhere with their kids. We're not going to act like that that was just over the top. Yeah I mean it's very interesting. I mean I'm a student of history so if you if you watch some of the things from the eyes on the prize series where they really there's some real confrontations going on which was another civil rights struggle in our history as a country. Those scenes were very reminiscent people holding very hateful signs people throwing things. We had there were snipers along the roof line because there was fear for our safety. And you know you really have to stand up you can't back down when people want to put you back in the closet you really have to present yourself and it wasn't just for ourselves. It was for all the generations who came before us that were able to be open and those to come in the future that want to live their lives with integrity so we really felt. We really felt like a standard bearer of saying yes we're here we're part of the Irish community we want to

celebrate with everyone. You're listening to WGBH radio the Kelley cross Leigh show I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly let's switch over here to the year 2011 city councillors at large Felix Arroyo and Yana Presley join us and you know there is political cost to avoiding the St. Patrick's Day parade and Councillor royal I'll start with you. You've not only said you wouldn't march in the parade and haven't like councillor Pressley has but you are holding a fundraiser on the same time and date as the parade in the south and focusing on your lesbian gay bisexual and transgender supporters. What is it about you know both the political cost you know this is a something that has. I don't like to fish unless to get re-elected you have to weigh these things. But also as a citizen of Boston. You know I represent the entire city of Boston and that includes the neighborhood that the St. Patrick's Day parade walks through and also just so happens that the neighbor they're

walking through has to be an extremely high voting neighborhood in the city of Boston and people really appreciate their right to vote and exercise their right in every election. However there was less of a political question you know I was talking to Malia the state open lesbian state representative also happens to be my state representative where I live in Jamaica Plain and a very good friend. And I just remember talking to her about it. And I just said you know the reality is I would not want you to march in a parade that said you can't march as a Latino. And I saw this the same way. And so it was just I see I see I do see it as a civil rights issue. And my feeling is if if any person that I represent as excluded from participating in an event simply because of who they are then I should stand with them and that that community that I represent know that I stand with them and that I will also not participate counsell presently you are part of the new blood of the city council the great the great

invigorating group we have right now. Mayor Menino has traditionally not marched in the parade and made a very big deal about the fact and gotten lots of both heat and praise for it. Was it ever a choice for you when when you took office I know when when you were running and you were on debates and you were clear you weren't but was it ever a question for you. No I was never conflicted about it. You know stand in solidarity with my colleagues on this. Certainly see it as a moral issue and a civil rights issue and as a woman of color I certainly would not feel right about participating in any sort of you know function or event that blatantly discriminates against any group. You know I chair the tourism Committee for the city and one of the things that we're constantly battling is the perception of what Boston's brand is and who we are and we are regularly looking to challenge that and to say Boston is better than that. And unfortunately this is one instance in

which we continue to perpetuate that negative Boston Brand and that that brand is not one of perception but truth and one that you even went to the highest courts with which to mandate if this is in fact a family friendly event which some of that I could challenge given the closing of the liquor stores during the day so that the families can get out quickly. Well I said that not you right. If it isn't Next a family friendly event then you should be inclusive of all families right. We're going to take a quick break you're listening to WGBH who will call in for Kelly Crossley we would love to have you join our conversation 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 is the number to dial. Are you just learning that gays can't march in the St. Patrick's Day parade in South Boston. Is that a big deal do you care or should we just let it go. 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 2 join the conversation on WGBH.

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We're back it's WGBH radio the Kelly Crossley Show I'm sitting in for Kelly I'm Sue O'Connell we're talking about the St. Patrick's Day parade in South Boston and how gays are not allowed to march. We're joined today by councilor Felix Arroyo and Ayanna Pressley they're both counselors at large for the city of Boston and Kathleen Finn who's gay and Irish-American and she fought to march in the parade back in the early 90s we're taking your calls at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. OK quick break while we had our headphones off we did a little primmer one a one on the on the history of the Irish in Boston in the parades. You know I grew up as I said off air in Revere with Irish American parents and my dad was not very proud of the behavior during the parade in South Boston so I was never allowed to go to South Boston and I grew up with an Irish Protestant mother and my dad was Catholic which was a mixed marriage back in the 60s. And. They were just

not very very happy about the race relations within the city of Boston primarily in Charlestown in South Boston around the busing incident so the South Boston Day Parade for me was never a place I wanted to go and we were talking about it. Kathleen and you said the biggest question you get is why the heck would you want to march in the St. Patrick's Day parade. And that's a question that a lot of gays ask each other like why do we make such a big deal of this. Why did why the heck do you want to march in the St. Patrick's Day parade. So it's kind of interesting it's sort of like asking well you know why is St. Patrick's Day represented with three. You know it's just so it's so ingrained in how we do it. I mean obviously it's a lot about identity in terms of parades and you know you and I we pride march in pride every year so it's the same type of thing it's it's a way to say be seen and to represent yourself. It's a tradition. So for myself as a young person growing up my family always celebrates St. Patrick's Day. We often went to parades We often. We always wore green

we could you know make Irish Bread. It's part of the part and parcel of what we do. And as an Irish community it was something the Irish community used to represent ourselves as Irish because we were facing discrimination so it was a way of highlighting our culture and really demonstrating our pride in our heritage. And so it continues to be. And councillors Pressley and Arroyo I mean you know this is one of those discrimination issues we were talking on the break councillor Pressley that culturally the Irish history of the discrimination we felt is not passed down to us as it is in other cultures. You probably know more about the challenges of the Irish American community at the turn of the last century than as a as a woman of color than many American kids do. Interesting. Well you know I was just saying that it just strikes me as incredibly ironic that a group that has endured its own discrimination signs that would say Irish need not apply and the like would participate in organized discrimination.

Again you know as one of four at large a Boston city councilor is I'm very proud to represent it to serve this city. You know all you know every neighborhood 650000 people. You know I've never been morally conflicted about participating in the parade but politically certainly there was a part of me is the first woman of color in this body that felt you know my participation could send a message of progress that this city belongs to everyone and no one gets to decide when and where I enter and my election and council Reuters election signals that progress has been made. But at the end of the day I can't treat that parade is that that is the only way to meet and engage those voters. And it certainly is not the only way with which to demonstrate that progress has been made. And also Felix Arroyo we know what great progress the city of the neighborhood of South Boston has made you know the bay windows offices are in South Boston. I was actually going to say that I think Mike Mike co-publisher lives in South Boston and has a homeowner

there for many years there are many many gays lesbians bisexuals and transgender folk living in South Boston you can drive down Carson beach and see people of all colors all shapes running the beach feeling safe. Something that I know would never have happened in the 1970s. So at the same time when we could be celebrating South Boston. We have this sort of ugly streak Yeah. The Great South Boston as it is today and it was yesterday. You know I was and I know that Councillor Pressley shares his experience and I'm assuming the two of you share this experience but South is a changing neighborhood you know as all neighborhoods are changing neighborhoods and I would suspect you know I don't have this sort of fact in front of you but I would suspect if you polled the residents of south Boston the clear majority would say that they would really support I have no opinion of GOP groups marching the same magic you know. It's a it's just a changing neighborhood. You know I spent an awful lot of time in South Boston myself my godfather lives in the house he was born in on M Street in south Boston.

And you know he's a man in his 70s and you know he's at the point where his you know this is a person you would think would be strong he just has a strong Irish Catholic tradition but his attitude is oh I could care less at this point you know and so I think that's that is the position of the neighborhood I believe that. And so it's it's hard to believe that you know the organizers of this parade would take it upon themselves to make this decision a decision that a lot of folks who are looking at this think it's a decision of South Boston right they think Southey is saying we're not welcomed when in actuality if you look at the at the business districts if you look at who's living there now I think that for the most part Southey is saying you are welcome and then there's this small group of organizers of this parade who are saying no you're really not and I think it's in contradiction with not just South Boston but the city as a whole. We're going to take some calls now and I want to say now so I don't get a call tomorrow Mayor Menino has not marched in the parade and he's been a leader he's been a leader on this and we throw him all sorts of props because he's he's never taken taken a step in the parade and takes every moment

to say that he won't we're going to jump over to line number one and speak to Lawrence who is calling us from South Boston Lawrence welcome to the Kelly Crossley Show. Thank you thank you for having me. What's on your mind. Well I just I I guess I'm a bit naive. I was surprised to hear that the GOP still excluded from the fray. I'm sad and ashamed being a straight straight lifelong resident of South Boston to the Boston public schools. And I I just think that well first of all it was you know it. We do have a history of discrimination of being victims of discrimination as well. And I really think that the organizers of the carraige should be visible and the community should have some input to this too. Now Laura there's a this year there's a parade scheduled after the St. Patrick's Day parade which is run by the Veterans for Peace I believe and they're going to run an hour behind the traditional parade and they are I know join

the impact which is a national group of gays and lesbians that have local chapters will be marching. I mean this one hand is is this something that you feel compelled in ashamed enough to make a call to the organizers or is this just something that you hope eventually will go away. I think we lost we lost Lauren So we'll have to maybe think it's a chance to call back but I mean that's the question we've got you know the terrible things happening in Japan. The economy the jobs education in Boston which you know was a top priority. I know we're going to get a call at some point from somebody saying really you know a parade you can't march in a parade. You know how do you how do you address that. It's a strong statements just I have to go back to. I wouldn't march in a parade if it excluded any group. It's not even for me just the LGBT group. I consider myself a strong ally. I chair the communicants of the deals on LGBT issues but it's it's important not to talk about as you just said here's a lifelong Southie resident who

just called in saying I didn't know they got Lawrence back actually Lawrence come back in. Lawrence Alright thank you. There you know what happened. Yeah we lost you so is this enough to motivate you to make a call. Yes and it also I mean I've been outside of the community I think a lot of the there are some of us who have never had a chance to be with him you know he always has a history of it I think you know things change they have to but at least I got off my college years I lived in San Francisco just outside of San Francisco and I can say also that. Nobody brings such a parade like like a lesbian. Thank you I know you really love the Caribbean group and the gay group in the parade. I mean that's that's really there's no I mean are we missing anybody else you absolutely have to have the right not discriminating of anyone else. Just from what I hope it will be a part of it I would like to be a part of it. All right thanks so much Lourdes.

And I would just say that yes certainly there are you know many issues that we're tackling on the municipal level and abroad and we have to work on them. We have to multitask. We have to do a lot of guns. We don't work on them sequentially. This is important because this is symbolic. It's important that when we say that we are a city that is embracing and welcoming of diversity that we actualize that that we demonstrate that. And so these symbolic you know symbolism does have its own power and you know so I don't see it as a little thing I don't see it as a little thing at all. We're going to jump to line three now and speak with Jay who's calling us from Providence. Welcome to the Kelly Crossley Show on WGBH what's on your mind. Oh I just wanted to make a comment that first you said you would never want to participate in a parade that excluded any but also opposed it. I also want to march in the parade with you.

Well today I did my question about J. A.J. I bet you pedophiles do march in the parade because pedophiles are everywhere but exactly to my point right. You're not being excluded. They can march in the way they want. Why do you have to wear your sexuality on your sleeve. You know the reason why a pedophile march in a parade in private is because it's illegal. That's why it's not illegal to be a gay or lesbian transgender bisexual there's a reason why a pedophile march in private cause the boss a police officer standing next to the guy would probably arrest them. When you're comparing a community you're comparing the community you compare community to illegal behavior it's offensive to me. They're there already. Just because they are pedophiles doesn't mean I care but Providence let you go I just need a day to day. I'm back from work. Well I want to have a conversation with then argue with you so I mean I don't want to have to be I don't know how you're making the connection between pedophiles and gays. No I'm not. No you are and I think he is he said he would not want to march you know. No I think what the council and I'll speak for the council because I think that if council Arroyo was a member of a golf club a golf a golf organization that

excluded Jews and the councilor ran for election someone would say How can you say you're a civil rights person how can you run for office if you belong to a private organization that excludes Jews the same thing I think the argument here is that the parade excludes excludes gays. So how can you be someone who runs for all of Boston in March and something that excludes a group of people who are you know not illegal are not bank robbers from South Boston are not you know a drunk driver in Boston. And that's the point so I think that's what he was saying I don't think he was saying he would support illegals. People criminals marching. OK I want to make one of the more Godhead and that is that this is a privately organized the vet right. Those people those people that have organized the event I was upheld in the Supreme Court the one which you judge and say Let me let me let me. Get on with it.

Now let me talk you for a minute I actually agree with you. I agree on the sense that if they're a private organization they do have the right to exclude the issue here is not that we're discussing whether they have the right to or not. The issue is more is it the right thing to do. Can you make that distinction. Well sure but so is it is it the right thing to do or is it the wrong thing so this is the thing as an Irish-American as an Irish-American. It's your right as American right. I'll tell by the way here's here's my law is that if upheld. Yeah OK let's listen to Kathleen who's actually OK listen here's what I would say in response to your question. It's not so much whether it's legally correct but in terms of what represents the Irish community I don't find it's representative of the Irish community the Irish community that I know and love and have grown up with is an inclusive Happy-Go-Lucky community it's one where everyone is Irish on St. Patrick's Day everyone's included and so the fact that they have picked one segment of our Irish

community to exclude is wrong A.J. And so we're calling attention to Dublin they get to March Jay in Dublin the Irish Irish gays get to march in Cork and you know what your plan is you have to prevent the organ I just. Right all right that's what we're trying to do. Absolutely that's what I'm trying to do exactly what you're doing. I mean you've already decided this is in no way reflective of the Spirit and the culture of Southie. This is about the organizers were taking them to task. They may have the legal right but morally you know we need to be better than promoting and fostering a climate of intolerance This is not how we reach understanding. We need to be inclusive. We're going to take some more calls. Thank you Jay so much for calling. Want to make sure everyone knows that we're happy to discuss all the issues every side it's the Kelly Crossley Show I'm Sue O'Connell the number to dial is 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. You know what we were talking about this Kathleen I'm a real constitutionalists. I get that this is how the Supreme Court gets got there I know that the arguments change they would support the way that they did it but yet they are absolutely within their right to do

that. That doesn't make it right. And the only way to change that is to put pressure on people and you know it makes me crazy that the parade gets listed in the Boston Globe as a place to be and that people I know and love are hosting it on television and you know I mean it it makes me nuts going take one more call I think we have time for Rick. You're calling us from Worcester Welcome to the conversation. You got a bad phone line so if I bail on you that's why Rick. All right. But you took me wrong by what I'm going to say my father's day and I saw a weapon for being gay and I don't hold anything against them but they're not saying you can't march in the family because again they're just saying we just don't want you you know broadcasting as a group actually work with. That's exactly what they're saying if you were the African-American and gay African gay American bowling club from East Boston you could march. But if you were the gay Irish bowling club from East Boston you couldn't march. I mean I don't think I don't really wish that before you know it it's about Irish

discrimination it's not about about gay discrimination like I really want you to think that I'm I'm not supporting you guys I mean you have every right to believe it's unfair. So you're just I mean I just I just don't see it myself. Was it. Do I need to do it to just get along you did as well. You know it's a broadcaster and I think it's not actually the controversial issue. And well who else can they Rick who else could they exclude then if that's. I understand I get your it's an open and honest question. But who well who else can they exclude can exclude if Puerto Ricans wanted to march can Puerto Ricans be excluded because it's not about Puerto Rican discrimination. All right well I don't want to read what's written here and so what I what I would have to say is you know you're not you're just going to court look at their weights. Yeah I mean I should have to you know don't get stuck on square and what the Black Panthers wanted to much I don't think they'd want them. Why don't they and so I mean I can't carry I'm not going to join me if you just

really are the end of the day all right. I'm curious what I have to say they are one second right. Hang on one second it's OK so here's what I would say it's a distinction without difference so the parade is about identity. We want to say that we are part of a gay lesbian and bisexual group. And so that is the point of marching in the parade. And so to say that it's somehow unacceptable for us to declare our our identity that's just wrong every other group gets to have a banner saying who they are and that's all that we wanted we wanted to be included. So so far it's pedophiles. The KKK gays and panther and Black Panther that's. So the Other than that Rick everyone else can march right. I'm sure there's other groups I mean I'm sure there are certain types of religion there wouldn't want broadcasting religion in there you know and things and things like that I'm sure those are the controversial issues but you know there's just inspired groups that probably just couldn't march in the play because Perry is also going to just think that Israel has some religious

backing to really know what you know what your religious background is. I'm not I'm not completely sure on it I know it has some knowledge background so I know that's why some of the logistics probably didn't bother with me do you know what they don't know what the religious background is right. But how many do you think how many people do you think in the parade along the sidelines know what the religious origin of the St. Patrick's celebration has I wouldn't think that a lot of people would know about. Yeah OK all right I'm not. I'll see your dad in gay pride. I hope you're there too. The thank you very much. You're listening to WGBH it's the Kelly Crossley Show I'm SEE Woollcott all fitting in. I mean but this is I mean this is where we get we get to you know to me it's just very simply if you have gay in your title you can't march everyone else could march I mean I would love to see a parade where I don't so there is another group that is like more Veterans for Peace Veterans for Peace right they actually banned men and women who

fought for our freedoms and our rights from marching in the parade. And they that was based on a political sort of viewpoint that South Boston residents and Boston residents and folks going to see the parade didn't want to see a message of peace from veterans actual veterans who served our country. My attitude is anyone whoever the people we all have a right to call for peace. I think a person actually served in the military saw combat to come back and speak for peace. It really got to tell that person that they don't have the right to do that. You know my former my friend and former city councilor Michael Flaherty son of son of. South Boston a great supporter of LGBT issues. Good man inviting him to be on the show. Michael march every single year in South Boston and the St. Patrick's Day parade and would argue all the time this is my heritage. I'm torn he would have openly gay happy friendly faces of people we knew marching along with him. And during the debate between Mayor Menino and

council Flaherty for mayor there you know it was it was an issue it was a real sore spot that he would get unhappy about because of all the great things he would do for LGBT folks he felt that this was really an unfair criticism of him. He would often say you know times are changing wacko Hurly that his name used to be in charge of the parade will be leaving at some point and the parade will change while he's no longer in charge of the parade. And it still keeps going on I mean is the discrimination continues. Councillor Pressley I mean you just I know you're look like you're about to be speechless but it's hard to reconcile for some people the culture and what it means from your neighborhood and I don't know how do you divorce yourself from who you are at your core I think this is an unfair position. I mean what message are you sending to Irish-Americans of the community. What I mean why should they have to be conflicted in this way wanting to celebrate Irish culture and heritage and having to in some way feel that they are compromising

you know a very large part of who you are your identity. I know that I've seen pictures of the end of the participating in the parade in the past and that certainly is in some way celebrating the contributions of African-Americans and recognizing our struggle. If all of a sudden they said well you're black you can walk but you just can't hold a banner proudly asserting or proclaiming your blackness. People would be up in arms. You know and as Kathleen pointed out in Dublin and Cork they're now allowing groups to participate in the parades. I'm embarrassed because we lead the way in so many other progressive ideals you know we lead the way. And for us to still be stagnant and suspended in this way and I worry that I think our ruling actually gave other states permission you know to operate accordingly. You know that I think there are only three states in the country that do embrace between organizations participating.

So this is not the kind of precedence of the city we want to be setting you know Council royal my Chinese-American daughter with the last name O'Connell went to school today with a Kiss me I'm Irish button on. You know I love being in the suburbs and seeing the lily white grandparents with their brown you know grandchildren out at the Applebee's for lunch. You know this whole area is just changing. I mean America is changing and at some point you know there's going to be a tipping point where the Irish you know are we come in all shapes and sizes. We are Irish and frankly all Americans come in all shapes and sizes you know. I strongly believe that it's fewer and fewer people who would think it was OK to compare LGBT groups to pedophiles. I know we got one of those phone calls today but it's fewer and fewer got to be the one to do that there soon enough. And you are you are if you're gay also KKK I was confused I thought that's what he said when a Black Panther. And I think. And there was some religions he didn't like either he didn't mention them but I say it's a changing city it's a changing name but it's a changing country don't ask don't tell has

been repealed. I think your point was dead on with that. It's the same rule essentially you can march just don't tell us you're gay. And the minute you do then you can't and it's the same thing as Don't Ask Don't Tell. Maybe it fit the times the political times under which it happened but it certainly never fit the moral times in a certainly does not fit the political times of today. Well thanks so much to all of you for joining us. Appreciate your being here we're talking about the Saturday Sunday say Patricks Day parade. It's got a 16 year ban prohibiting gay groups from marching in it. Thanks so much to you at large Boston City Council Felix Arroyo Yana Presley and to Kathleen Finn We appreciate it so much coming up next. Don't worry we're going to be drinking. We're raising a glass to yet another St. Patty's Day tradition. Wine beer whiskey it's coming your way don't go away we're back after this break stay tuned to the Kelly Crossley Show on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Support for WGBH comes from new and from the New England mobile book fair in

Newton for 54 years. New England's independent bookstore the New England mobile book fair find them online at an e-book fair dot com. That's an e-book fair dot com and Tarion Performing Arts Center. Twenty percent of our audience comes from outside a 45 mile radius. Catherine Knowles executive director where reaching demographically a broader audience and geographic we now drive from Boston Western Mass the cape the south coast and we know that's because of GBH to learn more. Call 6 1 7. Three hundred fifty five hundred. I'm Lisa Mullins PR as the world is following history one day at a time thousands of miles apart. Troops moving in and protesters pulled back some setting small fires at both the Chinese and French governments are telling their citizens to leave Tokyo as Japan struggles to recover from disaster tensions continue across Arab countries. We'll bring you the latest on PR as the world.

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of the great holiday traditions actually any holiday drinking in our contributor. He's the founder of the Boston Wine School and author of a wine lovers devotional 365 days of information advice and lore for the ardent affects. Jonathan welcome back thank you. Happy St. Patrick's Day to you and Happy St. Patrick's Day to you. Where everyone here now will because I I would drink incense but it would be too hard for me since I don't drink anymore but I am in full I believe on one side of the bed you should have your book and on the other maybe like you know prayers for every day for a day that you can read what is in it but I'm also rolled back and forth battle I'm all for the drinking. I'm supportive completely of the drinking I want to be very clear on that I got to say that's refreshing. Yeah I'm here. That's what I'm here for. Now you have a variety of things here where do you want to start because you're the one guy and folks do. Often think of our island as the wind Well you know what What's what's what's funny

about wine lovers is they know no limits this time of year I get phone calls and e-mails from people all the time saying hey what's the perfect What's the perfect wine match with corn to be happy age. And what if the answer to that. Well the answer to that is that it's a wine called beer. You know it's a it's a blackened and you know wine lovers come on you know give it up give it up for one day you know there's more to life than you know I don't want anyone to hear me say this but there's more to life than wine you know. Yeah you know I had a I had a traditional St. Paddy's Day dinner one time with beef stew rather than corned beef and my brother over and we had the blackened tin You know John you were Neely is the son of Cornelius O'Connell and he looked at me and he said where's the miller like right you know. There are some challenges you know and ironically the black and tan is not exactly an indigenous Irish thing it is more of an Irish American thing to a certain degree. St. Patrick's

Day OK so be that as it may I did bring two wines for us to try today one is one is a Portuguese wine called Vino vino veritas. And if you know Portuguese or Spanish or any if you took a Latin in high school you know even though Verdi means green wine and it's not because it's green in color it's because it's a very young white wine. Well actually I had a little sniff of that OK. Sure. Or you go to sleep. OK. You know and that and smelling wine and sort of the aromatic meaning that that's oh that's a lot that's a lot of it. Yeah it is it is a little bit to me like the German Reisling. Yeah like a you know like a light light. That's exactly what it is it's a light white wine it's blended from lots of different grapes. This is from a winery called the lady which is just one of it's one of the larger wineries in Portugal. And Will what I think. I smells like wine to me and I was like why OK that's always that's always that's always a good sign.

And the litmus test is you would serve with it would be good for the heavy miss of a nice balance to the current corn beef and cabbage. You know what I think this would be like you know when it comes to those sorts of meals might My attitude is eat and drink separately right. We keep the corned beef and cabbage in the dining room and I don't know I convert one of the one of the guest room or the TV room and you know why I'm reading you know just keep your food and wine separate but this is something that's really light white. Look it's low in alcohol. It's only 10 percent alcohol lot of wines are 12 13 14 percent so that's a lot less alcohol and you know I always like that for I was like that for family occasions if you can bring Now you can bring the alcohol level down just a couple of points are going to be doing yourself a big thank you so big personal favorite I never plan to go content down and it's a little fizzy you know it's got a little bit of carbonation to it you know it's not like a sparkling wine like champagne or you know or Prosecco or something like that it's not that Zippy but.

You know I like this is a good as a good starter wine we like to think of this is sort of a gateway wine you know we sort of just started out with one movie the movie up to wines that's very into Ford It's very tart it's very citrusy and I think it would go pretty well with the corned beef. We're not drinking it with the corned beef. We'll pay attention. We're going to have this in the room with before everyone gets to start off with and then work your way into next sort. OK. So I brought another wine from California this is from a winery called Con Canon and Nikon Canon is the oldest continuously family own winery in California was founded in 18 83 by James Caan cannon he was born in Ireland. Born on St. Patrick's Day today is his birthday. And this is a grape called Petite Syrah raw. And people will recognize will recognize the name. It is not petite.

It is not Sirat it is yet you know it's a genetic blend of genetic cross of different grapes and this is sort of the opposite this con canon is sort of the opposite of this. The lady you know Verdi this is dense black looks into you know this would go you know this would go great with a really sometimes service with a cheese course with really strong really intense cheeses you know cheese or the floor after the meal. You know I like to do it after you know I like to do it at the inn right before right for dessert I don't have much of a sweet tooth myself so I kind of like the cheese course almost as almost it has let me take it seriously Absolutely. What do you think sir I have to try here. Oh this is this is very this is intense Jerry says this is for a real red wine right right.

That is really have you know the name. I wish we could see the face yeah it looks like the stock has been here. Yeah it is absolutely I mean it's absolutely live here. Yeah absolutely. Let's hear the whole content on this you know what that's a really good question and I think smelling it I mean look at the time. Yes not 10 percent if it's not 10 percent if that's where you're getting to. Yeah. Thirteen point five so Thirty five percent more alcohol in the 10 percent. And there was the whole the the the science behind the marrying of the grapes now I mean it's been a long time since I've talked wine but the hybrid the this is an exploding part of the industry. Well what's happening now is we're learning a lot more about what to plant where and when. So it's a it's a lot less it's a lot less trial and error of saying look let's plan some big test vineyards and wait five years to see what happens. Today we understand a lot more about soil we understand a lot more about what grows really well where. And so people are able to to be a little bit more

aggressive and grow wine and make wine around the world in places that we don't normally think of. We're why Brazil. I was just going to ask Who are the sort of up and comers now in terms of locations that people think gee I never thought I'd be enjoying a wine from. Well right now what's what's really hot is the southern hemisphere and especially South America chill a Argentina. You know people are loving now back. People are loving Carmen there really another intense red grape from Chile. In the next five to 10 years we're going to be seeing a lot of wines from China. A lot of wines from India and a lot of wines from from the former Soviet bloc countries the Balkans Romania Bulgaria this part of the world. You know they've only been making wine there for you know for thousands of years you know. But they've been kept out of the world market because of politics you know and we're going to see those. You know China is

planting an unbelievable number of acres of vineyards whining grapes a day. And when you think about China you know being so so so in addition to just being immense. You know it's very long from north to south. So you have a lot of different climates and a lot of different grapes you know cold climate hot climate you can grow all kinds of different different grapes in China and that's going to be that's going to be a big within the next I don't know five seven 10 years. Now we're talking about years earlier yes. And what would be your choice you know for the for the ale Well here you know someone someone someone has put in front of me a bottle of Guinness Extra Stalley less the vitamin c they have it in this. You know I grew up. Drinking that every morning when I was younger that was the right was given to liver oil I mean I you know I grew up in southern Ohio just sort of north of Cincinnati. So so so my beer experiences have all been with German style you know

beers a light pilsners and lagers stuff that's Chris than you know right. Got a lot of hops in it you know when I get into something like you know the world of Guinness which Guinness I think it is has its own number on the periodic table of elements right it's got like it's like so heavy it's got its own atomic weight. You know these things you know frankly I'm frightened for you know if they're you know they're high in alcohol they're intense and dense in flavors and they're so different from what I grew up with and what just the taste that I developed right here over over my life. I talk about the black and you mentioned black and tan before and that is probably my favorite of these traditional St. Patrick's Day drinks is the black and tan which is a Guinness and some sort of pale ale you know a lighter a lighter kind of ale. I'll tell you I'm not a huge I'm not a huge whiskey fan overall but a little while ago I had a blended Irish whiskey from Slane Castle. Yes. L A and E Slane Castle and I

thought it was smooth and rich and and just just you know sometimes I find whiskey to be really overpowering. I found this to be really soft and really easy. And Slane Castle the slain is the name of a special kind of a shovel and a tool that they use to cut up with. So that's where the name of the you know in the name of the blanket holiday sometimes gets overblown I have to say though I think it is a great opportunity for folks who don't normally drink you know to ski or drink the. Do they strive to try I mean it's a good opportunity make sure you still don't like it. Yeah. Perhaps after the family members go home and eat it. I mean of course there is after drinking which is hangover. Yes you know what's what. You have a solution to that. Well you know the real the the the only the only real solution is water and lots and lots of it. The enzyme in your body that helps you

metabolize alcohol is an enzyme called alcohol hydrogenated in the hydro part of this INS I'm you know it needs water to work. And so really the main thing in terms of avoiding a hangover recovering from a hangover. I mean if you find that you're not able just not to drink a lot you know which is really the first you're the real thing is to keep yourself utterly utterly hydrated. And you know I was a very successful drinker. I do know my mike tip would always be to drink a glass of water right some water in between each drink absolutely and then have less or any four before and then the last thing when you wake up. Absolutely or you go Well thanks so much for you Are you happy. Thanks. St. Patrick's Day to you John Alsop He's the founder of course of Boston Wine School thank you Will for taking some sips for me. Sure. Wine lovers devotional 365 days you got to pick it up it's a great book. You can keep on top of the Kelly Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Kelly

Crossley Twitter Facebook the whole thing I'm Sue O'Connell in for Kelly Crossley I'll be back tomorrow Week in Review rag time. It will be great fun. Kelly Krause Lee show is a production of WGBH radio.