Harvard Book Store; WGBH Forum Network; James Howard Kunstler: The Witch of Hebron

And so tonight I'm pleased to welcome author James Howard Kunstler. He's with us to discuss his new novel The witch if he run. Now more than ever we're inundated with facts charts and scientists detailing the demise of our world. And though it is a grim subject matter it seems that the witches of Iran rises to the task of being both an entertaining and prophetic sequel of the Witches of the brown book bookless writes that it is a suspenseful darkly musing story with touches of the fantastic in the mode of Washington Irving and from Publishers Weekly councilors post apocalyptic world is new there are merciless nightmare nor a starry eyed return to some pastoral foe utopia. It's a hard existence started with adventure revenge mysticism and those same human emotions that existed before the power went out. Mr counselor is a regular lecturer around the country speaking on issues such as urban development and environmental crises. A former staff writer for Rolling Stone magazine he contributes to diverse publications and his popular blog cluster fuck nation charms many avid readers. Previous works include World Made by Hand the geography of nowhere. Maggie darling

and The Long Emergency. He is also a leading proponent of the move movement known as New Urbanism. We are very thrilled to have him with his evening so you please join me in welcoming James Howard Kunstler. Thank you and thank you all for showing up. It's very nice of you to come on but probably couldn't be vowel or early fall night. I thought I would do sort of due to two and a half things talk a little bit about long emergency issues and maybe update them a little bit and maybe entertain a couple of questions and then read a couple of scenes from the Witch of Heber on since that's what traveling authors are supposed to do and I kind of like doing it is fine then we can talk a little bit about that too. I think what's what's probably going on right now. In the

background of our lives or maybe even the foreground is we're seeing kind of a race a horse race between two forces that are vying to put us out of business as an advanced economy advanced civilization. And they are the fiasco in banking and finance and the predicament with energy. And actually in the last 12 months the financial fiasco has pulled a little bit ahead and looks like it it's for the moment has more potential to get us into trouble. Although it should be understood of course that these are both mutually reinforcing problems and that the problems with banking capital are certainly going to redound into the problems of energy when we discover if we haven't discovered

already that we don't have the capital to find more oil. And that's going to be increasingly a problem a very. Important. Bit of news came out just today on the Internet that the that's the kingdom of Saudi Arabia is down over 11 percent in oil production from 2008 over 2009. Or at least that was the whatever the final figure is for that for that period apparently came in. Only in the last 48 hours and now it's being publicized and now you know that's a very significant number because Saudi Arabia of course is I think our number two source of imported oil after Canada Mexico used to be some of Saudi Arabia Mexico used to swap off being two and three. Mexico is in such deep depletion that they've actually gone from

three to about six now in about 12 months. But Saudi Arabia of course has a very quickly growing population and they subsidize their gasoline in there. They are selling more cars every year and they're using a lot more of their own oil. And what that means is that Saudi Arabia is going to have less and less oil to send to everybody else in the world. So it's just another signal that we're getting into trouble with all that. I go around the country and there's a great clamor for solutions. Everybody who is even talking about these issues it wants to talk about solutions but I've discovered something a little dismaying. Most of this talk about solutions is actually code for the idea.

Can't we find a rescue remedy so we can keep running all the stuff or running the way we're running it. And you know I have discovered that at places like the Aspen environmental forum where I was for two years in a row and whenever the subject of car dependency and our oil import problem came up the only thing that these people wanted to talk about was all the nifty ways that you could run cars without gasoline. You know and that clued me into something that at the level of the most elite Green level that they don't want to have a they don't want to have an intelligent conversation about this problem. They never talk about walkable communities. They're not they're not interested in public transit. You know there is virtually no lobbying from any sector of the body politic including the place that people in places that ought to know better. The Greens the Harvard whatever you know the intelligent educated

minority of Americans that they're not talking about that they're not interested in. And that gives us a clue about where we're at and where we're at it can be stated very succinctly that we are unable to construct a coherent consensus about what's happening to us and about what we're going to do about it. And the smart people can't do it. And the NASCAR morons can't do it and nobody can deny the people the middle can't do it so no one's doing it. And you know I was talking to. One of the people in the audience before the. Program and you know we were talking about exactly this why why is this and I it's very hard to account for I mean there are three ways you can account for it. There is the idea which is not my original idea but it's a good one. The consensus trance. That was well it was actually it was conceived by some psychologist from USC but then the guy who wrote that book techno sis Eric Davis.

Kind of expanded on its very good time. The take the the consensus trance. And I had so sort of self-explanatory you know there's just a lot of noise in the system there's a lot of cognitive dissonance. We have a lot of clashing ideas as you can state categorically that delusional thinking arises with economic distress so the more economic distress goes up the more delusional thinking there's going to be. And we can see that. Expressing itself in the Tea Party and the quality of the conversation on cable news with people just shouting at each other. So it's all pretty self-evident. But you know if we don't have a coherent conversation public debate about these things and if we don't construct a coherent narrative or ork body of agreement consensus about what's happening to us

you know we're just going to slip slide into a whole lot of trouble. And it's beginning to look like that's exactly what we're going to Anybody want another one. Everybody ready because we're going to drain this bottle. OK I'll give you another opportunity. Don't be shy. A lot of the delusional thinking is focused on the alternate fuels. Unfortunately the idea that there is mostly the idea that we're going to run Wal-Mart the US army the Interstate Highway System Walt Disney World and suburbia and some something other than oil. And it's just unlikely. You know it's I don't think it's going to happen and I don't think we're going to run that stuff on any combination of any stuff.

In fact I think we're we're not even going to run a substantial fraction of it on that stuff. And the but the bottom line is simply this. I don't want to be misunderstood as being against alternative energy because I'm not. I'm quite sure we're going to try everything that we can and do everything we can but we're going to be disappointed by what these things can do for us. You know we're not going to run Wal-Mart and suburbia and the interstate highway system on this. All these fantasies about changing out the internal combustion gasoline engine car fleet for a whole fleet of electric cars. Isn't that probably never going to be anything but a fantasy. And one of the interesting problems with this is that very quickly as the problems with capital and money and finance get more severe.

And car ownership becomes more difficult because the way that Americans have been used to buying cars for 60 years is by buying them on installment loans. And there is going to be less and less capital and there are going to be fewer and fewer loans and that's the way people are used to buying cars if you want a glass of wine there ma'am. We're pouring. OK well wait for this so one room here. It's going to become increasingly undemocratic. It's going to become increasingly undemocratic system of happy motoring. And you know every year there are going to be more and more disaffected disgruntled grievance filled resentful people who used to be able to drive cars and now find that for one reason or another they can't. And believe me that's going to become a political problem although there's every likelihood that it

will mutate in the political process and it could be expressed as anything. I mean there will be this body of anger over here. But it may come out as like kill all the homosexuals are or you know we hate black people or it could be anything right. So because that's sort of what's happening now. But but it's only an indication of how really help reverse politics can get. So instead of solutions for the last year or more I've been trying to promote the idea of let's stop talking about solutions because it's grandiose and one of the main things that we're suffering from right now is technological grandiosity and organizational grandiosity just grandiose. And we need to talk about this in terms of intelligent responses to these problems that we're having intelligent responses to the predicaments that were in their

predicaments they don't all necessarily have. Rescue Remedy solutions. And finally I think that the the message that's coming from reality is that we have to make other arrangements for a lot of the things in normal daily life. And you know that we're going to have to grow our food differently we know that we're going to have to do commerce differently. We're going to have to do transportation differently. We're not going to be suburban the way we have been incrementally less and less and probably we may reach a point where you know suburbia becomes seriously. Dysfunctional and seriously. Severely loses its value. So we're going to have to do all those things differently we don't want to talk about it. And we'll see how this works out over the next couple years it's my guess is that you know we sort of squeaked by in

2010 by pretending that all the bad paper that's out there everywhere it's in the vaults of the banks it's in the vaults of the Federal Reserve it's in the. It's in the local banks it's in the pension funds. It's anywhere that people have investment paper this stuff has gone and it's lying there rotting away and we don't want to declare the losses because if you declare losses on loans that are not being paid money disappears including your money if you're a bank or whatever entity you are dead even if you're a person if you declare your losses sooner or later you're bankrupt. And it's true of all these things up. That's where we're at with that stuff. And. Does anybody have any questions about that because then we'll get to part B. By the way I. I wrote I write a blog every Monday and this week I wrote

about my adventures in the world of commercial aviation which were unhappy shall we say. It was interesting that are there any people here actually write the comments on my blog. Oh right yeah. Because it was just amazing that I you know I got the most humorless response from from this group of people. They didn't seem to understand this was comedy. Even though you know it was a rather cruel comedy about it. But sometimes comedy is pretty cruel. I have a very I have very mixed feelings about it. I think that you know I still sort of stick by what I said in The Long Emergency that if we want to keep the lights on in 10 or 20 years we may have no other choice but to do that. But I understand the hazards are very very severe but also there are a couple of new things in the picture one is that it's tremendously capital intensive to build the infrastructure for nuclear power. And now that we're in a situation where capital is vanishing investment you know

stored accumulated wealth that you can deploy for useful purposes that money is vanishing. And this is the money that we had hoped would build the postal economy and the monies are going to be there. I think we're going to be too broke to build reactors. I think that's going to be the next thing I mean apart from whatever the hazards of nuclear are and all the subsidiary questions so you know it and it doesn't look like we're going to resolve any of the arguments over it any time soon anyway. So the longer that we argue about it and don't have. A good you know consensus to go forward with it the more likely it is we're not going to have the money to go forward with it anyway and maybe not even the political kind of integrity to go you know we may end up in a society that's so fractured that that it can't be done. No the set answer is No.

And I think that the further answer is we had a comprehensive failure of leadership in America. We have a failure of political leadership business leadership media leadership academic academic leadership. And sometimes this happens and in societies that the last time this happened in America. That I am aware of was the period in the mid 1850s where you have your you have a moral predicament. It was an energy predicament but it was a severe social and moral predicament of slavery. And it appeared to be irresolvable after decades of struggle and the faction that was in power that ran things really through the 1840s and 50s the Whigs vanished overnight. They just like went down the drain somewhere like who are the Whigs.

You know they vanish so quickly. And this is of course is what I hope may happen to the Republican or Democratic party or both of them you know. But it hasn't yet. But it was an amazing thing. And then there was a kind of a vacuum a political vacuum in the country and meanwhile you had these presidents you know that are now. Notorious for being nonentities you know you had Franklin Pierce and Millard Fillmore and James Buchanan and nobody in this room can mention a single distinction of any of them I bet you get a glass of wine if you can. Say yeah. Millard Filmore open Japan. Right we know that he didn't do it Commodore Perry did it while he was president. But you know out of this vacuum comes finally. A Illinois railroad lawyer who was once a congressman and didn't get reelected in the 1840s and he has really one gift and that is. An ability to

articulate exactly what the terms of that coming convulsion will be. And he makes it clear what the convulsion is going to be and clarifies it for everybody and manages to get elected largely because there's a multi party race going on that year. And the you know. The moment he's elected and on his way to being inaugurated the union breaks up and we enter the convulsion of the civil war which is resolved about. I don't know three or four days before Lincoln was shot you know and then becomes really is converted to sainthood as a result. But you know the important part is is that finally somebody comes along who can articulate what's going on. And there's nobody now in politics business media or academia who is able to articulate what's going on. But as I guess Mark hot I don't

you know I don't see I don't see Elgort talking up about the energy problem I don't see Al Gore making any statements about the banking situation. You know we need to prosecute people in in on Wall Street. The rule of law has got to be re-established in money matters and we're not doing it. And that's my main objection to Barack Obama who I voted for. If you don't have the rule of law in money you will not have confidence in money. And if you don't have confidence in money all bets are off about the financial system. And we're now you know will willingly willfully destroying our money system by failing to reintroduce and re-establish the rule of law. So. And I got a little lost. Well my opinion about the GM thing is you know I won't go on about this because a big pet peeve of mine but you know what. We desperately need to rebuild the railroad system in America and not the hot not a high speed rail

system which it would have to be a totally parallel system with new tracks and new rights of way which you'd never you would never legally acquire the land that the eminent domain problems are so enormous that you'd never overcome them. So that's another fantasy but we need to rebuild the railroad system. You know I think if the Obama administration was thinking straight they would have. Compelled General Motors to get into the rolling stock business for railroads would have compelled them to build Choo-Choo train equipment. They could still build cars but you know now you have to do this. I was just I've been in Michigan twice in the last three weeks. In fact I was all over the place I had to go up to Saginaw I was in all over Detroit last week and the Obama administration has put zillions of dollars into highway reconstruction and new construction in Michigan just to put people to work because it's such a depressed economy.

But. You know the amount of money that they're using just to fix the off ramps in Michigan you could probably build in your rebuilding entire passenger rail network in America with and so that whole thing is just. An appalling catastrophe. The you know the way that that's gone on you know. I do happen to think that Barack Obama is probably a nice fella. You know he's probably a decent fella. He's obviously not stupid but he's you know as I actually said in one of my blogs this year he's becoming the Millard Fillmore of of this period. You know Millard Fillmore was probably a nice guy too. Who knows. It's self-evident that disparity in wealth in the U.S. is getting very very. Big. And who knows what will happen you know and sometimes you know societies have revolutions Sometimes people just suffer.

And you know from what I can tell apart from the Tea Party stuff which I think is very confusing so many of them are really militating to make Wall Street richer. I don't really see any concerted consensus among people who are getting screwed to do anything about it you know. I've said this before but I still believe that life is tragic. Life is tragic and sometimes societies make bad collective decisions and they suffer. And history is merciless and history doesn't care. About our complaints and our excuses and it does and we can and history doesn't care for crybabies. You know even that's not going to work. So you know you have to be responsible in your society for stuff and the these things are very very hard to

work out. I do kind of think that one possible scenario is this. Revolutions sometimes begin over the issue of people starving people being hungry and that kind of entails the whole question of who owns productive land. And this is kind of a hidden issue right now but I do think that as time goes by and we get into more problem with our foods of supply and the cheese doodles are not making it to the supermarket shelves that you'll begin to see maybe some. Some anger over who owns the land and talk about you know seizing land in one way or another from people who have it. And that's that's historically and conventionally the way revolutions begin with property being seized. And so that's the thing to look at look for. OK I'm

going to move on to the early part of this program about the witches he brought after I wrote that book The Long Emergency I wanted to depict as vividly as possible what life might be like. And the post petroleum and post collapse post the economic collapse world. So I wrote A World Made by Hand. You know kind of just an you know an exercise now I had written a lot of novels before that I was like I didn't know how to do it I had to have an experience I felt pretty confident I could read the novels. My publisher didn't want me to do it. But you know they always want you to do what you did before. You know can't you write long emergency too. You know it's actually pretty funny because at the time I was without an agent because I saw The Long Emergency without an agent my agent didn't want to sell it so I fired him and for about two three years I did have an agent and I handed in my world made by hand

and they made a really insulting offer on it. And just at that moment a young kind of hustler who had just started his own literary agency called me up and said I like to represent you. And his his name is Adam but he went by the name snapper. I think turned out to be the six foot four hulking scary guy. So when that offer came in I you know about 48 hours later you know I responded and I said you have to talk to snapper now. It was really the most satisfying moment of my whole career. And he he wouldn't talk to them and I think he would talk to them with a fungo bat or. A sock filled with babies or something because they came around anyway. So then I wrote A World Made by Hand and there were numerous complaints about World Made by Hand from the carping complain ors out there. One of them was that they were what's all this supernatural hocus pocus in the World Made by

Hand. Well I will now explain it for anyone who maybe couldn't put it together. You have a failing society in a failing economy. And it's represented in a town by these townspeople in this little town and a group of kind of mystical evangelicals moves into their town from elsewhere and what you really have is a clash of world views you. You have a kind of neo medieval semi magical world view that is that is colliding with the residue of the Enlightenment. You know all the baggage of the Enlightenment is you know poly logical positivism empiricism. Science technology has failed all of these regular townspeople it has failed them. And so you know along comes these people who are. You know these Jesus people who seem to have some other mystical element going on amongst them. So I'm simply trying to make the point that in it and narrative way in a dramatic way that world

views change. I'm not a proponent of being magical I'm not religious myself I don't believe in the supernatural myself but I do think that perceptions of reality change very much from one age to another and it's all about the perception of reality. You know because really the reality is still reality it's just we you know whether you look at it through the lens of the enlightenment through the lens of you know the rian Chantant of the world just as a practical matter you know what was in my mind when I created the queen bee character was that she was a Claire she was an epileptic clairvoyant. She wasn't really from another planet but she's real strange. She's real strange. And so I've elaborated there are some in this book and I want to reject a couple of scenes one maybe three it depends on on how we're doing for time. But. The first scene is about brother Joe who is the head of the new faith

Christian Church of Jesus. I forget they have various names for this as a new to new faith that order the new faith Covenant Church of Jesus is a in evangelical group that has moved up from the disorders of the Sunbelt in Virginia where they left they fled Virginia because the son dealt is too disorderly and they came up to the northeast and they bought the high school which is not being used anymore and they moved in and they started you know planting gardens where the football field was and they're doing pretty good you know they seem to have a pretty orderly operation going and the townspeople of course are struggling. So this is a new scene in the new book involving brother job. And he's meeting up with a character a new character who's being introduced. The book is largely about the 11 year old son of the town doctor who commits a crime and has to run away from home and run away from town. And he meets up with a 19 year old psychopathic bandit on the road

and essentially becomes his captive more or less. Becomes captive in his company for a period of. About a little less than a week during which this guy goes on a crime spree. And the kid gets into worse and worse and worse trouble. The chapters I'm going to read their short chapters are not going to give to much of the story away. They're sort of side shows to what the main story but they'll be self-explanatory. So the character that we're meeting here is Billy Bones The Banded brother job enjoyed the gliding gait of his mount a mule named Atlas. He was fond of telling people that a mule rode much more smoothly than a good saddle horse and was smarter and could stand up to heat better and was not stubborn but rather sensible and disinclined to

follow obviously foolish commands that might discommode or injure it. A mule is a Sapir your animal and he felt positively superior riding one despite what others might think. And once he got his mule breeding business up and going next spring he was confident that folks would begin to see the advantage in mules. Of course people still wanted horses and he aimed to keep breeding them too. But now he was out a perfectly good stallion that was a pleasant crisp fall afternoon and despite his enjoyment of being out on the road riding Atlas brother job suffered in a personal globe of perturbation knowing as he did now that the doctor's boy had had poisoned his stud horse and Jupiter. He was further vexed by the knowledge that the boy had he loped from Union Grove and was on the loose somewhere in the county. All politics aside he wanted to

flog the boy within an inch of his life or maybe beyond that. Brother joke was on a journey to see Stephen Bullock's place on a journey to Stephen Bullock's plantation several thousand acres of fruitful bottom land and up land five miles outside town at a place where the baton killjoy in the Hudson River. He had business to discuss with Mr Bullock the grandee of the county with his vast holdings his many faithful servants and his personal hydro electric outfit. Mostly brother Joe wanted to inquire about getting a stallion to replace Juniper Jupiter America was dearly short of horseflesh so rapid had been the descent out of the old times to the new. Wasn't it odd then Brother Joe mused to the soft rocking gait of Atlas the mule that his daddy had on the leading Ford dealership in Scott County Virginia back in the twentieth century. Brother Joe had come about half way to his destination when

lost in musing about back home he saw a loom figure up ahead on the road. As he drew closer the figure began to wave its arms in a broad gesture that reminded brother job of a railroad grade crossing signal from the old times. He instinctively reined in Atlas the lone figure strode forward confidently. The closer he came the more his appearance resolved from that of a grown man to something like a gangly overgrown boy. He was perhaps twenty with curly yellow hair and a scraggly blond beard. His cheeks were sunken as if he had not been getting regular meals. He had been carrying a bulging leather shoulder sack that he now took off and tossed aside tossed aside to the edge of the road. What's up Stranger brother job said. And good afternoon to you too sir. Fine day to be rambling. I'm a rambler and a gambler you got that right. That

so are you knowing the Lord son. The young man dipped his whole body in a go far not yet he said. Would you like to. I hope not to meet up with him for some time yet I like it here on Earth. Rambling and gambling as I do. Well you can be born again in this world and know the Lord. I've had enough of birthing center. I'm enjoying my prime. Would you like to hear some of my song your song. Yes sir. The ballad of Billy Bones. That be you Billy Bones. Yes sir the very same. Well I don't have time for no song and dance. Now there ain't. There ain't any dance to this. Not yet anyway. Mind if I pass on the song. The boy unbuttoned his brown leather coat and drew it open to reveal the butt of an automatic pistol tucked into the waistband of his striped trousers and something that looked like

a two two foot long brush knife on his other hip. Give it a chance sir you won't regret it. Along about now the only thing I regret is not bringing a firearm to entertain you with so much the better than Sir because neither of us will get hurt. Are you ready for my song. Fire away. Well here goes. When first I came to New York state my fortune here to find I followed regular upright ways was always nice and kind. But as I rambled around the state abandoned I became I plied the road with gun and sword and plundered many a man. He sang these verses in the style of a mournful dirge during the second verse he drew the automatic pistol out of his waistband and held it aloft in an emphatic manner. I think I get the picture. Brother job said I ain't done there's more verses. Oh I heard enough if you got yourself a

ukulele folks might stand a better. You know where I might find such a thing. Brother Joe felt his patients melting away. Look at here son I don't carry no cash money. This here is a waste of your valuable banditry time. And anyways you're done serious. Sorry excuse for a minstrel and a worst robber you think so well maybe I'll just have that horse of yours. I'm sick of pounding this road. This here is a mule you dumb ass. My how you speak to me or someone might get hurt after all. Look right here boy brother Joe beheld an index finger to the outside corner of his eye. Home. That's right look right in you think you can run the snake eye on Billy Bones. I already done it as we speak I can see inside your brain pan and I throbbing vein within. I'm surprised you can't feel it. The young man cried out and painted visibly drooped within himself while his gun hand fell to his side. Sweet Jesus he moaned. Well look what you

found after all. The young man staggered to the side of the road and squatted into his haunches. What are you doing to me mister. I'm calling a halt to these monkey shines and giving you some to reflect on my head splitting open. The boy said and vomited between his dusty shoes. It was a thin stream of yellow green puke as if he had been eaten grass for his breakfast. You'll be all right in a while as long as you quit the vicinity and don't never show your sorry face around here again. At that brother job gave Atlas and heel and the big mule resumed his stately walk. As he left Billy Bones on the roadside the young man was weeping loudly in the sunshine so he turns up again. Shall we say so. This is another chapter and it's later in the book and brother Joe has gone to visit the queen bee. Mary Beth Ivanhoe

as her as her Christian name goes. And this will give you a some something a little more of an idea of where they're at together. Mary Beth thought. How the Queen Bee has just given birth to quadruplets. She seems to be very productive that way everybody else is having trouble reproducing brother job stopped in on Mary Beth Ivanhoe in her queenly quarters before he and his men departed. She lay propped up on a pile of satin pillows in her ornate bed with a baby in each arm watching them nurse noisily beads of sweat making trails from her forehead down the complex top Abra feet of her face. The pale flesh of her upper body fell in so many folds that it was difficult to discern which was a breast. Somebody coming get these runs off on me she said. Brother Joe wheeled around in the

rush of Mary Beth swarming handmaidens who swooped away the squalling infants help the mother with her gusset and silk pajama top and proffered a tray of fried chicken and corn meal tidbits along with a tumbler of sweetened sumac tea. When the infants were out of the way Mary Beth reclined with an arduous sigh and stared at the food in her lap. My kitties are killing me she said. I've got to run split sessions with these critters. There are so many we've done this a great good turn brother job said. Our folks is delirious with the little ones. What can other sisters do a little getting with child. I could use a witness around here. We're trying. This is taken every last ounce of energy I got Don't none of you man got the right spunk to tell you the truth I think that bombing Washington all but sterilize this outfit. We took a chance passing so close to that city didn't appear to hurt me none. Well your special precious mother will get me some damn nipple in bottles and milk

the cow why don't you. The little boys need them anti-bodies and mother things. Well I don't like to how all the actual work falls to me she said gasping a little eyes fluttering in their sockets for a moment brother Joe feared she would lapse into one of her seizures. He reached over to stabilize the lunch tray. Moments later she seemed to come out of it. You all right brother job said. I ain't been right since that some bitch side swiped me at the Hunters Ridge Mall in 2006. Of course we we know about your ailments and burdens. You don't know the half of it. Well let me get down to business. This here ought to be your business she said seizing a drumstick. Mary Beth I know you're vexed. We're both a bit sort be set this morning. I've got two men out there waiting for me. I know what you're up to. Well I'd appreciate it if you focus your mind and tell me what you know about this fellow they call the

hermit. He's an odd one she said stripping the drumstick to the bone and reaching for her tea. Has he ever hurt a child. Lord no. Where he go with the light shining. Where is he at right now. He's up north somewheres not far. Where exactly. The hills Hell's Bells I can't give you no coordinates in s. The US Missile Command sitting here sometimes I don't receive too good you know. And you tell him to put more salt to these hushpuppies when you get a chance. And I'd like some pepper jelly too. Is the boy with him. The boys let somebody in. Not that hermit. Another boy older there up north somewhere. A valley a bend in the river. What's that sour puss face all about. I've got to believe. All's you do around me is belly ache. Take some fennel tea. I know the sisters got some they give it to me.

Peppermint works good too. Taste is here and and tell me if there's a damn bit of salt to it. She said stabbing out fried corn kid bit with her fork and brandishing it and brother job's face. What is the matter with you today Mary Beth. Didn't I just say I got a damn belly ache. I can't eat no fry up. But you yell at me some bitch you give me a damn apoplexy. A baby broke out crying in an adjoining chamber. Then another. Look what you done now Mary Beth said sputtering corn meals on Brother Joe. They'll put two more them little monsters on me and I ain't even finish my chicken. All right. I'm kind of half inclined to read another part of this. This is a scene that I actually haven't read much before. Something is happened in Mr. Black's house. He said a home invasion

of a bunch of bandits. They've come in and. Attempted to rob him and rape everybody around the household and he ended up. Killing three of them. By me I'll try not to give it away but three of them are now dead and his men have rounded up the other the other. I guess there's nine more of them. And so this scene takes place the following morning in which he interrogates one of the remaining surviving gang members over breakfast. Around sunrise the day after his home was invaded Stephen Bullock decided to hang the rest of the intruders. He drew up a warrant of execution for the nine men at his breakfast and determined before hanging them to an Terry gate. Whoever was next in command after the three he had killed in his bedroom

a little after 7:00 in the morning he entered the old Apple storage cooler where his men were held. He went in alone. Five of his own men well armed remained outside. The captives inside recoiled at the light of the candle lantern when Bullock entered. They all shivered visibly in one corner of the large chamber where they huddled together and hobbles with their hands tied behind their backs. The room stank of animal wastes and fear. Three of your men are dead Bullock told them. I suppose you figured out who they are by now who among you has the authority to speak for the rest of the gang. The men swapped glances all around. Don't be shy Bullock said. We don't have no official ranks if that's what you mean said one man a large man with a shaved head perhaps thirty years old. Oh it seems you speak for the rest. Just for now the shaved head man said. Ok i nominate you spokesman

and second it all in favor. Ah I see you're elected. Get up and come with me where we go. You're going to have breakfast with me and we're going to talk. The man got up off his haunches and glanced back at his companions. He was rangy gaunt and hollow eyed but obviously very strong. The tendons in his neck stood out like wires come Bullock said. The man shuffled in his hobbles which only allowed him to take tiny steps. Bullock and his five men. And it's five men armed with rifles and pistols walked him to the mansion. The clear morning was already blooming into a spectacularly warm Indian summer day with many stimulating aromas in the air fresh cut hay burning brush sorghum boiling corn bread baking Bullock led his prisoner into a sunny conservatory wing of the house and directed the man to have a seat at a glass topped table. The courts that bound his

hands behind his back were removed though the hobbles on his ankles remained. Bullock's sure man Roger Libby a Chrysler dealer in the old times laid a stiff white cloth on the table and set it with silver tableware and damask net napkins rolled into silver rings. Bullock held up a sterling silver fork and examined it in a shaft of sunlight. Too bad you didn't get to rob the place Bullock said we have a lot of nice things here. The prisoner didn't reply. Roger Libby stood by the table with a tray at his side. What would you like for breakfast Bullis. Bullock asked the prisoner. Are you going to give me breakfast. Certainly. Why aren't you hungry. Not especially. OK I'll order for you Roger. Tell Lyle how to make this fellow a four egg omelet with some of that Duane bird cheddar cheese bacon sausage hash browns and cornbread with the raspberry preserves. Yes sir yourself. I'll

just have tea Billick said. Tea for you he asked the prisoner. We just grunted. It's real black china tea. Bullock added. None of that none of that fruity herbal crap it'll give you a real lift. Go on give yourself a break. Okay the prisoner said Roger Libby left and left him. Bullock's other men took up position standing or sitting outside the conservatory on display. But out of earshot Sparrow's flitted in and out of the room through the ventilated leave of the ventilation louvers. What's your name Bullock asked what's it matter. Well it should matter to you it's your name you can't defend your honor without defending your name can you. It's Jason hammer shield. You couldn't have made that up. It's my name. Where is this gang of yours from. It's not my game. Why don't you own it but obviously you're a member. Roger Libby book brought out a tray with a teapot and two matching cups and saucers. Bullock poured for both of them

the creams from our own dairy and the sugar is made from our own beets. They were working up a sour gum sorghum operation right now Blix said. So Jason Where do you and your associates hail from Waterbury Connecticut. We've been on the road awhile. How are things back in the Nutmeg State. The what Connecticut. They sucked which is how come we took to the road. Have you had many adventures. It's a hard life. Well you must not be very good at what you do. We're all right but it's slim pickens out there. Well then it's extra sad that you messed up here. We're living large. We've got full bellies electric power amber waves of grain growing orchards and a nice big house with first rate furnishings. I can see oh you only see a teensy weensy bit of what we've got going. Want me to put on some recorded music. I've got it all. Broadway musicals classical old Bob Dylan

Roger Libby reappeared with Jason hammer shields breakfast and a basket of cornbread around a can of butter and a dish of blackberry jam. The prisoner stared at the steaming plate that was set before him. Put on some Debussy would you Roger. The first preludes. Sure thing sir go ahead diggin Bullock said to his prisoner who continued to stare darkly into his plate. How do I know this is not poison Bullock left sincerely you moron if I want to kill you I have one of my men shoot you in the head. Go ahead and eat. Jason hammer Sheila looked up at Bullock's squinting with dull in comprehension. I'll be very cross with you if you just let it sit there Bullock added. The prisoner took a tentative fork full of his omelet then ate more rapidly until he was fairly inhaling the contents of his plate in a fugue of deprivation. He reached into the basket for some corn bread slathered it with butter and spoon jam on

top. What I want to know bullet continued is whether you're part of some larger horde somewhat. Jason him a shield said. You know a larger unit of people like yourselves. An army of marauders scavenging across the land like locusts. Jason the hammer shield chewed ruminative to flee. No he said eventually. We're just two we are a bunch of guys. What do you call your bunch. Nothing really I'd think you'd sit around the campfire at night memorializing your exploits. What are what are making up stories about yourselves for your own amusement. Creating a myth for posterity. We just fall out and sleep. It's hard living like we do. Well all I can say is you boys are seriously lacking in imagination Jason Hammel shield mopped up the last remaining specks of egg hash browns and crumbs of

bacon with a triangle of cornbread. Allow me to suggest a name Bullock said. The Nutmeg boys or perhaps just the nutmeg ors. Jason Hamer shield made a face and snorted. What happens now he said tossing his napkin on his plate. Just some legal rigamarole Bullock said do you boys have a lawyer. No. Want me to represent you I'm a member of the bar. That don't sound right. These are rugged times admittedly for the machinery of justice. By a stroke of luck though there's a magistrate on the premises who WOULD THAT BE YOURS TRULY Billick said. I see Jason hammer Shields said. You the jury too pretty much. I could appoint some of my people but they just do what I tell them so why bother. A green look came over the prisoner. As the horizon of his future finally resolved into a featureless landscape of grevious futility.

He puffed out his cheeks his eyes rolled up into his head and he vomited his breakfast back into his plate. It's been nice chatting with you Jason but I have an awful lot to look after here. We're slaughtering some hogs today. It's the season for it. Bullock left the prisoner staring blankly into the panes of the conservatory walls and went outside to where his men waited. Take all these fellows down to the river road Bullock told the versatile Dick Lee and hang them there a 20 yard intervals. So there you have it. If you haven't. If you have any questions. You can ask me a couple of questions and I'll sign some books and then we'll go back to our wives and children. Well it's I mean writing novels is always problematical you're just in the you have to think about writing fiction because I write both fiction and nonfiction and you know the trouble with nonfiction is you have to be correct about stuff.

You know it with fiction all you have to do is be plausible. All you have to do is suspend the reader's disbelief and not you know not not shake their disbelief. So I'll figure that out somehow I will you know.