Rock and Roll; Interview with Logan Westbrooks [Part 1 of 2]

Logan h Westbrook's. I'm Logan h Westbrook's. Oh wow. Well in my opinion Clive Davis who was the head of CBS Records at that particular time. From an ego standpoint off's also from a business standpoint. Here is a gentleman that was so thoroughly involved in music and his company that he hit it dominated every category of music except black music or R&B as it was called at that particular time. And because of that reason in my opinion I think that he made the decision to go into the black music business 100 percent. You know. Well I don't think number one the Harvard study.

I don't think initially it was set out to be a blueprint or a pattern for for CBS Records to follow. There was a gentleman who was a consultant to Clive Davis his name was Larry Asics and he also was a graduate of Harvard and he made the decision that I am going to sell Clive Davis on the idea of this Harvard study basically the Harvard study is the study that is conducted by graduate students in the School of Business and they will take an actual problem from a company and investigate and thoroughly thoroughly research that problem and come up with some recommendations. And that's what that study was all about. Yes. To come up with record the study was to come up with recommendations for CBS to penetrate the black music business not only to penetrate it but to dominate it to take it over completely.

Why. Well the customer Lee Bowles one of the recommendations for the custom leaders was just one of the methods for entering the black music business. It was also decided that through the use of through the vehicle of a custom label they could into their business much faster simply because a custom label was sort of specializing in black music. CBS Records being a basically white dominated company and they not only didn't have the know how but they didn't even have the in our people capable at that particular time to bring in the the black acts that was needed for exploitation. Yeah. Well in my opinion I think that Gamble and Huff killing Gamble and Leon Huff are some of the most and talented individuals at that particular time in the

music industry and fortunately for CBS they came along and the ideas and the talents that they had it was a good match. Now with that talent that they hear in a cover such as CBS I mean that mighty marketing machine of CBS pairing the two of them together. It was just no stopping them. And when killing Gamelin Lee and have came in with a product that initially there was some hesitation from the standpoint of the field staff of CBS but they were so talented. The music was so good. Until this to say our staff they had to respond to it simply because the buying public was responding to it. And our salesman will respond to sales every time we. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.

Well usually the citizen me. Ideally ideally a person is working black music. Would you want to do is to cross to music over to Top 40 and I'm using the term top four because that's a term that was used that particular time we talking about the 70s. And if I am working a black record I want to cross that record over from black radio to top 40 or to white radio. Reason being they are more white folks buying records than black folks. And through the vehicle of radio you able to expose it to many many more to the buying public. So what you want to do you want to cross a record over every time to expose it more to the fore more are potentially customers and. Oh. Or yes there was there was resistance. There was resistance not only in CBS the record company

but at the at the radio level as well. I mean those lines were drawn you know black music is for black folks and black radio stations and white music is for white folks on the right with white radio stations. But now we found that the buying public could care less. They were just interested in music that made their move. But the problem the problem was convincing the record company that this is what we should do this is the right thing to do even from a profit standpoint or a sales standpoint. Let's cross it over. Let's expose it. But those racial lines were drawn so purposely purposely black music was clipped in the black community white music was kept in the white community. It was almost impossible to get your record into a white with your station. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Well at that particular time the way that record companies were structured there was the black division or a black individual that worked on the black records. And then there was the white division or the top 40 division. Now in most companies at that particular time even your major companies you had a complete the complete top 40 or white division that worked all of the white records you had usually one black individual that worked the entire country. You may have a white individual on a regional basis. You had eight national pop promotion manager. You had your regional pop emotional managers and you also had your local proper motion managers. But on the black side you would have just one black individual that was responsible for the entire country.

Some come up as that particular time some of the larger companies would expand that somewhat. They may come up with the concept of one national a man on the black side. Midwest West Coast East Coast and South they would have five black individuals working black records. That's the the larger record companies and they were was responsible for working servicing and breaking all of the black records. Now they would only work black records would only go to black radio stations. Pop department would own and concern themselves with white records and white radio stations. So that's the way that they were structured. Now in my opinion the genius of Clive Davis he made his decision that I want to penetrate the black music business. And that's why I was hired I was hired in November of sevens as of seven to one. My mission my job assignment was to

create a black marketing division to explore to penetrate and to exploit the black music business. That was my mission. And I was given all the tools that was necessary to do that. Fortunately for me I was hired by a company that had the financial resources usually usually in the business IT company would release a record and then as a record created sales as that record generated sales then that company would tool up with staffer. But in this instance I was given the authority to go ahead and hire Stan. Now we don't have any black proc product to work at all. So what idea. I contacted the program directors of every major radio station black radio station in every major market throughout the entire country and I asked them for recommendations and the thinking years is that if you are a program director.

And you recommend a particular individual. I have that individual who he comes to you with. One of my records he's going to play that record. That was the thinking. So consequently I was given recommendations and I went out and I interview those men and I hired every last one of them. Now the structure when I went to CBS they have that one national man and the four regional concept. That's who they were here working there at the particular time. So then when I came in to restructure the department I wene and hiring local black promotion on me and which was completely unheard of a record company would not hire a local black promotional manager. So this is what I was doing. The markets that I selected started right at the number one market was was New York City. I had a local man for that market. I had a lot a local man for the forcefield F-you a local man for the Baltimore Washington area. A local man for Detroit a local man for Cleveland a local man for five for Chicago Illinois.

I hired a local man in Atlanta and a local man on the West Coast in Los Angeles. Now in hiring those local man men are also set up or created a you know. In hiring those local men it meant that I had immediate identification in the marketplace of my product my product being those things I was released on the CBS label or any of the things that came under the custom label banner which at that particular time the way that it was structured all the custom labels King through Epic Records who which was headed by or for I mean Want to Luxemburg who also was a record jockey I mean he was determined to get a record player or to sell a record. I mean the he was I would say that he was just a 100 percent record man. Now with the structure that I have set up the local Me and report it to the regional manager the regional manager in turn reported to me

out of the out of the New York office. And these are all black individuals. Now it was also their responsibility to engage themselves in civic and community things that were going on. Again I'm looking for identification in the marketplace of everything about CBS whether it's a civic or political I want him to be involved so that when the records were released when the records came along they would have an entry in any door because of the past things they have done. Now I also found that in the pair's in August would come to town. CBS has an. No tickets will be given to any black disc jockeys or even to the Inn of the black retailers and they had a responsibility that everything that every artist that was on the CBS label that came in that city. It is your responsibility to secure tickets and invite your retailers and your radio station personnel. Again

we are trying to establish a much closer working relationship with them. I was really setting things up so when the product floor starts I would be able to go in immediately and start securing our place. We wanted to lock up the marketplace completely and I felt that the way to do it was to cover all of the bases. Now from a national standpoint the question comes up working side by side with the pop promotional department. I asked the pop the most promotional apartment the ideal situation is to cross a record over the top 40 U. National Park promotion manager. What is it that you need to cross. My Black Art is over the top 40 where I was told that. Give me a top 5 record a number one record at black radio station a number 1 record a number a number of fire within the top five in all of the national publications. This is what they told me they needed. Also give me a good

consistent sales pattern. I gave them every bit of that and the end because of the racist nature at that particular time. They were hesitant about taking the record into Top 40 radio for whatever reason. Possibly their resistance from the race from any racial standpoint and also maybe from the the resistance of Top 40 radio. I don't know because I didn't pursue it into further at that particular tan. My mission was to give them what they asked for and I gave it to them and in every instance they fail to cross it over in every instance. So. You know. Well yes yes I can I can think of the very first record.

It was a record that was recorded by the by the O'Jays back stabbers and it was clear from the very beginning that this was a hit record. I mean this was on the for the def international label. This is one of the first records that the Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff delivered to CBS. And this record became a number one record across the board throughout the entire country. But steal the top of the Pops stand fails across this record over to to top 40. Fortunately the record did win goal but it could have gone platinum when gold meaning that it sold a minimum a minimum of 1 million units on the Single Day album also one goal and it sold a minimum of 500000 units. But as a said it could have gone platinum if it had crossed over. Now my new my new. This record the single and album one

goal. Just from black play only I'm also inclined to believe that there were a lot of top 40 buyers that purchased that record purchased it because they had heard it played on on radio on black radio. Just a buzz that goes around when a hit record is happening it crosses over to that extent. But in terms of top 40 radio. No they didn't pick it up they didn't play it. But it still went gold and ideally ideally if the popular part been across it over it would have gone much further. So that was that was one example they're now also doing this particular time along came come this guy Larry Isaacson and he came in with this plan this idea to Clive Davis concerning the Harvard study. Now I don't think that Clive Davis was really that concerned about the study itself. I feel that he knew the potentials of black music. I also feel that he had a very

very good one of the best marketing man in the country at that particular time. There was a fellow named Bruce Lundvall who didn't see any color in records. He just sorrow good records. He just heard good music colorblind. So he also saw the opportunity that this study would provide. Now what it would really do it was just merely to document what was already believed. We knew what was happening in the marketplace. We knew the potentials of black music. We knew the importance of explaining our handset to black little small mom and pop retailers as well as as well as treating black artists as first class artists. The cocktail party is the press that the press conferences and things like that which not have taken place in the past. So this Harvard study merely documented what was already believed. And I think that Clive Davis and Bruce Lundvall knew I certainly knew because this is

all that I was about. Now in the overall scheme of things if we're talking about breaking a black act we're talking about pretty treating the black music. Well there are a number of things that must take place. Number one you've got to think in terms of your audience and how you're going to reach your audience. Well at that particular time there were only we were very very limited very limited. We were limited in Billboard just just a few black acts would receive exposure to Billboard. We were limited in some of the other national right publications but there was one TV show Soul Train. And in my opinion. Don Cornelius and his show Harry direct influence on breaking and exposing black acts. Once an act appeared on Don can he loses show immediately. The sales

shot up. So this is what the black youngsters were looking at. This is where they saw their favorite artists. So it would behoove any record company once said record it been release once it starts showing some promise to get their act undone can be the show for performers as quick as possible and not only and not only darken users show but then there were other things too. Essence magazine was coming along at that particular time feature stories in Essence magazine. The Johnson Publications Jet magazine the feature stories. So this is what we were looking for. Also there was another magazine there was in existence at that particular time which is based on the West Coast. It was call Soul magazine. So with that Don Cornelius Soul Train Show. So magazine through Essence magazine through the Jet magazine and the in-tank everything in black radio. We will reach in the black market so we couldn't lose. And that's exactly what we were doing. Yeah.

Not doing during my tenure it got a little bit easier just a little bit easier. But that resistance will steal the metaphoric even today even today. With a 20 20 years ago I still think that there's somewhat of a resistance even here today. But yes it did lead up but not that much. It's not that many black acts that they allowed to get through. Clive Davis was jumping up and down Bruce Lundvall was jumping up and down. They didn't understand it. Earth Wind and Fire was an act that received a little bit of that top 40 play but not as much as he should because of the cost of the good music that they were doing at at that particular time. Yeah. How as an act I would say that Earth Wind Fire was somewhat of the innovators the genius the

genius of Maurice. He was he was a businessman and he also was a creative individual. I mean they're out there live shows. I mean it would just worry you out just to see them perform the things that they went through there on the stage. I love the shows that we see here today is because they are set up the way they are because of the genius of Marjorie's right. The staging of the shows of Earth are going to end in fire. Not only that not only that but at the grassroots level again the genius of Maurice White. He saw the importance of visiting all of the radio stations there.