American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Rev. Mae Frances Moultrie Howard, 2 of 2

[Interviewer] --trapped on that bus, you couldn't get off or face the mob but the bus is filling up with smoke. [Howard] Well as for me, as I said before, I was flat on the floor on my stomach on the bus and at that time I was just praying for the people that was with us on the bus and I was praying for like the whole world and I was concerned about Mother's Day and how the people, the town people, the people where we came from, how they were feeling, because it was on the radio and they could hear where we were and what was going on and so I just laid there because the fume was so strong I could hardly breathe and I think I was coughing at this time, but my whole mind was on what we were doing, it was for the whole country, the whole world, and we were bringing attention to what was going on with the segregation in the bus department. [Interviewer] What, again, what did you see and hear and feel once you got off the bus? What was happening to the other riders? [Howard] Well, I could not see, one person could not see everything, I could only see when I came out of the bus that these men, it was quite a

few, just rambling around the bus and hitting the bus and still calling "niggers" and I was very afraid at that time because I didn't know if I would be stepped on or hurt at this time but I could not see everything but I did see them swinging these pipes and hitting but the faces I could not see the faces because I was actually on the ground at this time outside. [Interviewer] Mm-hm. Were you hurt? You had a lot of smoke. [Howard] Well I was suffering from smoke, I was outside coughing and I remember it but not faces, people trying to ask me how I was, if I was all right, everything-- was trying to console me, that everything was all right. [Interviewer] What did you think about these men, you know, they-- they were angry. [Howard] Well personally I thought they were trained killers. That is one reason I called it "Bloody Sunday" because they did not seem

to be sympathetic or have any feeling towards anybody, they were swinging these pipes and these hitting instruments and tools and so they didn't seem to have any sympathy and there was no one offering help to anyone. [Interviewer] Great, great. Okay, let's cut. So after other things that we're going to skip over, you get to the airport, talk about what happened at the airport. [Howard] Well the next morning was Monday morning after "Bloody Sunday" and all the escapades. We tried to reach the airport for the groups to go continue to go to their next stop. I was suffering from smoke damage and so I needed to go back, turn back, to go back to Sumpter and when we got to the airport they said that there was a bomb scare and we could not leave. That part I remember very clearly and I didn't see

a lot of people rambling around, I don't know, but everyone was very very afraid to get on the airplane including me. I was very sick and coughing and-- but I was afraid that that was the time that we would be killed. [Interviewer] Why were you afraid? [Howard] Well I was thinking that when the airplane took off it would just explode and it would not be much-- we would not have much information as to what happened in the airplane or whatever and it would be nobody inside to tell the story. [Interviewer] Okay, so I want you to tell me this as a story, say something like "when we finally got on the plane, then there was a bomb scare," you know what I mean? [Howard] Yeah. [Interviewer] Okay, so start out there. [Howard] I think when we got on the plane and there was trying to get seated and we heard about the bomb scare it was like panicking trying to get out because they said "come out, come out, very quickly" so it was just like a stampede. [Interviewer] Why? [Howard] Well because we

didn't know what was-- there wasn't much-- there was no direction, they just said "move quickly, move quickly and come off the bus," you know, "there's a bomb scare, we have to get off the bus," and it was just pushing and shoving. [Interviewer] I'm going to just ask you that again, we had a little noise. So you get on the plane and what happens, you get on the plane-- [Howard] Well when we got on the plane everybody was trying to get settled and at that time there was an announcement, I don't know if it was on the loudspeaker or they yelled out, "we have to get off the plane, there's a bomb scare, so move very quickly everybody," and so everybody just started pushing and shoving and I don't know if anybody got hurt from that point, but every body filed out and I think we all got out. It was a false alarm. [Interviewer] How did you feel then, when you heard the bomb scare? [Howard] Well I'm not sure how I felt because I was coughing and trying to get my breath just praying right away that we could get off alive and I was thinking about all the other people that was on the bus, on the airplane, that they

would be safe and sound. [Interviewer] So at the time you're still kind of sick from the smoke from the-- [Howard] Oh yes, I was coughing and just not able to do much. I was very weak because I don't know if I had anything to eat from the time we left South Carolina that Sunday. [Interviewer] Let's cut. [Howard] We got the second threat, we tried to leave the second time and I don't remember a lot about that because they were saying that I needed to go, I could hear people saying "that lady need to go back, she needs to be in the hospital," so whatever happened after the second threat about the bomb, I don't remember much was said but I do know that they-- I was flown back to Sumpter to Community Hospital, that was the private black hospital there. [Interviewer] I don't have too many more questions, I just want you to give me this story over from the time you head out to the plane.

So how you felt, you must have felt pretty good, you know, you're finally going to get out of Alabama. So tell me about-- they announced, you know, "flight 142 leaving, flight 142," talk about as much as you can, we just want to wait for this whatever it is to go by, just talk a little bit about how you felt, so they announce your flight and you're going out to the flight, how did you feel? [Howard] Well right at that time I felt very happy because I knew I was going to get treated medically what I really needed and I wasn't thinking in the beginning that it would be a bomb threat, I thought all of that was in the past and we were free to travel at that time. [Interviewer] Okay, so there is no bomb threat yet. I just need you to tell the story, start over. Do you know what I mean, Mae? So, "I felt good because I was getting out, and then I got on the plane and I started to sit down, they gave me a rum and coke,

and I started to drink," whatever, "they gave me some peanuts," and then you heard the bomb scare, so as much as you can. Go ahead. [Howard] Well to tell you the truth I don't remember a lot because I was really sick and I needed to be treated so what others heard I did not hear it. I was mainly concerned about myself at that time and I was shocked about the bombing at the-- hear about the bomb threat and I was so afraid for everybody because I knew if there was a bomb on the plane and we would not have any coverage, I was concerned about after we made the long journey from where they came from up until this point that if everyone was on the plane there would not be anybody to tell the rest of the story. [Interviewer] And when you get back, you have to get off the plane, and now you're-- how did you feel now that you are in the airport? [Howard] Uh-- [Interviewer] After the bomb scare, they make you go back into the airport, now you have to still sit around and

wait, right? [Howard] Oh, well I-- personally I was coughing and I was sneezing and I was-- I don't know who was giving me drinks of water and trying to console me, but there were people in the airport who came to my rescue but I don't remember much about it but there were people asking "if you are alright, if you are alright," and they were concerned and "we hope you'll be fine when you get home and get taken care of." [Interviewer] As this all is happening, did you ever think like "why is all this happening, we were just trying to sit together on the bus?" Did anything like that ever occur-- do you know what I mean? [Howard] Well we thought about-- I thought about what was going on but my feeling was that the people that were trying to kill us and trying to attack us and beat us and not letting us go on, that they were people, they were just haters of black people and they

did not want the law to be, to pass, they didn't want us to have blacks and whites together because we could hear early about the "niggers" and the "blacks" and "get us out" so it was a bunch of haters who really didn't care who they killed. [Interviewer] At any of this time were you sorry that you had joined the rides? [Howard] I never felt sorry that I joined the ride, I was always very happy because people were telling us even before the riot that they wished they had the nerve to go and they were very proud of the people who were not afraid to go and they were willing to help in any way to help the Freedom Riders that were on the bus. [Interviewer] What do you think was accomplished by the Freedom Ride? [Howard] Well we did allow the people of the states and the world, everyone could see and hear what was going on in the deep south. [Interviewer] I want to go back a little bit, Mae, and talk

to me about before there's any of this violence, or anything like that, as you get on the bus you got on back there near Sumpter, right, just talk about how it felt to be on the bus and traveling and the scenery and stuff. [Howard] Well it really was a beautiful day and I would like to say we all were dressed for success and as we got on the bus there was no crowd and no one was actually sitting together, we had plenty space, some were at the front and I think, I don't think there was too many behind me cause I was middle way. But we were feeling, I was feeling very proud of the people that was on there mainly because God made these people, they weren't afraid and we knew that people were praying and we were the type of person who believed in the power of prayer and that as we traveled that there were people praying and that we would get there safe. I always believed that we would get where we were going safely. [Interviewer] Talk about how it looked, how did the countryside look, give me

a feeling,-- [Howard] Oh it was such a beautiful day. It was such a quiet feeling that day, it was bright and sunny, the sky was blue, and it was just a beautiful scenery and the people that was in the front, whoever was in the front, they were talking, and we was feeling a little bit happy at this time. I didn't hear any sad comments about what would happen, we would be killed, we were not talking of that, we were all thinking differently. [Interviewer] Was there any fear at that point, at the beginning? [Howard] Well at the beginning did-- you didn't-- we didn't have a sense of fear. It was the sense of gladness against a sense of just being proud and thankful for this opportunity to do something to help our country. [Interviewer] Okay, let's cut for a sec. What do you remember seeing, hearing, thinking, as you pulled into Anniston? What do you remember

seeing, thinking, hearing? [Howard] Well I was thinking since-- my whole thing was Mother's Day and how beautiful the scenery was, just thinking and praying that all mothers would have a good day and I was thinking that if something really happened to us, actually what would happen to my mother as she just had the two children and I was just asking God to, you know, pull me through for my mother, and then if not-- my whole family understood that I was really involved in this activity and I wanted to go and they freed me to go, not only in my family but the church people freed me and I knew from the beginning and that the prayers of the people would be heard and I was hoping that we would be safe so we could tell the story. [Interviewer] Right, and so but then you turn the corner, you know, and you're suddenly in Anniston, right? You turn the corner suddenly in Anniston, talk about then what you see when you see these men. You turn the corner--

[Howard] Well what I saw was actually what I consider, I know what killers look like sometimes. That these were trained killers and trained people against they-- they hated black people and they did not want to see any mixing of the race and that was the one thing that I did see and I did understand quite that they didn't want to see any black man and white women sitting at these counters so they would do anything to prevent that. [Interviewer] Even more, Mae, I'd also love for you to talk about is not what was going on in their heads, but what you saw. What did you see? [Howard] Well I saw a bunch of what I can still consider that these were trained killers-- it was "Bloody Sunday" and they were out to kill. They had blood in their eyes and they was out to beat, to kill, to kick, to knock, to do anything to get

rid of these people on this bus. [Interviewer] How do you know-- [Howard] How I knew is because they began to beat on the people, they began to destroy the bus and that was evident itself and they came with their instrument, their killing tools and you could hear them, actually we could hear and we could see how they were calling out about "niggers" and "nigger lovers" and they were beating and they proved that they were out to kill or to do anything they wanted to do. We had no protection. [Interviewer] When you say you could hear them, how they sounded, tell me, make me feel, make me see how did they sound, what did they say? [Howard] Well they were just yelling out "niggers, niggers." They were hitting, still hitting on the

bus even after we were off the bus, they were hitting and they-- there was a sense of madness and a sense of hate and a sense-- they had a don't-care attitude, their attitudes were very bad about these people because they were just hitting, they were slinging these tools, these instruments, these fighting instruments. And they really did not care who they hit but I think I was down on the ground and and maybe they just thought that there was nothing I could do so I would die there and they didn't bother me. [Interviewer] Okay, let's cut. [cut] If you could just say "as you got off the bus," just say that you suffered really badly from the smoke inhalation, that you had to be hospitalized. So what happens when you get off, talk about how badly you were damaged. [Howard] Well from the beginning when I got off, I can't

tell you if I walked off the bus or if I crawled off or someone pulled me off. I was suffering very very badly from the smoke and the fume, the fume was just awful and when I got off the bus I was coughing and I didn't know if I would die at that time from the smoke because we heard that the emergency room in the hospital was closed so there was no help for me. [Interviewer] Okay, that's great.