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I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. Today Mayor Menino will try to broker and into hostilities between two warring parties bikers and drivers. A recent rash of bicycle accidents culminated last week in a fatal crash involving a biker and MBT a bus. The wreck sparked an outpouring of frustration from the cycling community and underscored the need for greater safety measures precautions that Mayor Menino will address today at a bicycling safety summit. We'll check in on what can be done to put an end to the hazards of biking in Boston. From there it's on to Barbie supreme make over America's sweetheart is hanging up her sweater sets and swimming suits for the smells and bells of ordeyne living. Barbie has found religion by way of a new wardrobe cost six cloaks and more. Look at what the High Church Barbie says about the role of women in the clergy. Up next from bicycle safety to Barbie sacristy. From NPR News in Washington I'm CORBA Coleman President Obama has met with four key senators to discuss a new Supreme Court nomination. He says he hopes to name his choice by the end of May at the

latest. NPR's Ari Shapiro reports. President Obama sat next to Vice President Biden in the Oval Office to his left on one couch where Senate Majority and Minority Leader Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell to his right on another couch Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy and ranking member Jeff Sessions. Mr. Obama said he looks forward to hearing their advice. I'm confident that we can come up with a nominee who will gain the confidence of the Senate and the confidence of the comfort and confidence of individuals who look to the court to provide even handed justice to all Americans. When asked whether he would ever nominate someone who does not support abortion rights the president said he has no litmus test but quote I want somebody who's going to be interpret in our constitution in a way that takes into account individual rights and that includes women's rights. Ari Shapiro NPR News the White House. The Coast Guard is searching the Gulf of Mexico today for oil workers missing after an explosion on an offshore oil rig. NPR's Debbie Elliott reports. At least

11 people are missing and seven are critically injured. Everybody got it. Coast Guard helicopters and boats are scouring the Gulf waters for the missing workers after evacuating the wounded. Fire broke out about 10 o'clock last night on the drilling rig Deepwater Horizon. About 41 miles off the Louisiana coast. It's owned by the offshore drilling contractor Transocean limited and was leased to BP. The company says a substantial majority of the one hundred twenty six member crew is safe and accounted for the injured workers were taken to hospitals in Louisiana and Mobile Alabama. Coast guard officials say those who escaped injury are being brought to shore in a work boat. The semi-submersible rig is still burning and has nearly toppled over. There's no word yet on what caused the explosion. Debbie Elliott NPR News. Ana maker General Motors has repaid nearly 2 billion dollars in government loans to the United States and Canada. GM Chief Ed Whitacre told workers at a GM

plant in Kansas City Kansas the loan payoffs are five years ahead of schedule. The governor much of the U.S. Canada and Ontario still own a substantial part of GM is equity. But we're making a lot of progress great progress toward our vision of designing building and selling the world's best vehicles. GM actually got more than 60 billion dollars in loans from the U.S. and Canada as it went into bankruptcy protection last year. Then the U.S. government cut its amount to less than 7 billion dollars and turned the rest into company's stock. On Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average is up 11 points at eleven thousand one hundred twenty eight. The Nasdaq is up 1. This is NPR News. The European air traffic control agency Euro Control says 21000 flights scheduled for the European continent will take off today. This may start to clear the backlog of stranded air travelers. Planes to end in Europe have been

grounded because of dangerous ash from Iceland volcano. The ash can burn out jet engines. Days after an audacious triple hijacking the furthest off shore attack to date Somali pirates captured a ship off of Oman. NPR's Ofeibea Quist arctan reports. In this latest attack pirates captured a Panama flagged ship with a Filipino crew. The European Union naval patrol force in the region confirmed the seizure of the vessel which had been sailing from the United Arab Emirates to an unspecified port. Experts say Somali pirates have intensified attacks in recent days largely because of good weather which facilitates their operations. Pirates seize three Thai fishing vessels over the weekend in the Indian Ocean in what the EU naval force described as the furthest offshore pirate raid to date hijackers have recently been expanding the reach of their maritime attacks to avoid the American and European patrols off the coast of Somalia. Stockton NPR News that cat the former head of the International Olympic Committee has died at a

hospital in Barcelona Spain. Juan Antonio Samaranch was 89. He ran the IOC from one thousand eighty through 2001. He's known for transforming the organization into a powerful global force that drew billions and sponsorships and broadcast rights he was also criticized for a scandal involving the Olympic Games in Salt Lake City. Members were forced to leave the IOC for taking improper benefits. This is NPR. Support for NPR comes from the broad superintendents Academy preparing senior executives to become urban school district superintendents on the web at brode Academy dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show today Mayor Menino will hold up bike safety summit in response to a recent rash of bike accidents that culminated last week and a fatal crash between a cyclist and MBT a bus. Joining us to talk about what it will take to reduce the hazards of Boston biking are Nicole

Freedman bikes are for the city of Boston and David Watson executive director of mass bike Michael Freeman and David Watson welcome. Thank you. If you hear listeners you won't be surprised to know that both of them biked here in the studio and they looked pretty good for it. Believe there is a lot faster. OK I don't know how long you it took you to get here but they both biked here. The cover of the metro which is that of the free daily that is handed out says you gotta be nuts to bike in this city that's the headline story leading up to this Bike Summit tonight. Is this is Boston a bike city. MC Oh yeah two years ago Mayor meaner committed to making Boston a world class bicycling city in the city has made great progress under his leadership we added 15 miles of bike lanes. We've added 500 racks in we had a history of being rated the worst cycling city in the country. The new rankings came out Boston was 26 in Bicycling

magazine and we had a full page feature in Bicycling magazine where they rated us the up and coming city to watch so 26 out of all of the cities in the country. Oh OK. That's presumably. Yeah you know the mayor's commitment is real we we've done a lot. We know how much more we have to go and the mayor is committed to making it happen. And yet these these three incidents just highlight you know the issues for bikers in Boston right. Is that true. Well I agree with Nicole that the reputation Boston has for being a poor bicycling city is undeserved. I think even before the Boston bikes program started we were blessed with a city that's laid out very well for cycling and a great cycling community a very diverse and quite large cycling community that was already riding what we've seen now over the past few years is a huge increase in a number of cyclists. It started about two and a half years ago when we saw gas prices

shoot up suddenly. And then even after they came down we continued to see ongoing increases in the number of cyclists. But what we're seeing is there a lot more cyclists out there who may not be aware how to ride as safely as possible. We're also seeing motorists being very unsure how to interact safely with the growing number of cyclists. So should everybody be cycling I mean are there people that ought not be on a bike. DAVID I think almost everybody can integrate a bike into a part of their life. We're not talking about an all or nothing proposition you don't have to be an all weather 365 days a year 20 mile a day bike commuter. If you're just able to shift some of your shorter trips from driving to biking or walking. That would make a huge difference and we're talking about trips only in the one to three mile range which accounts for about 50 percent of all trips. So you're really talking about people commuting to work or trying to commute to their major place of business while

commuting or going to school or going shopping or visiting your friends. There are any number of things that many people drive to do today that you could actually consider doing sometimes by bike. Now Nicole what people should know about you is that you were an Olympic cyclists and you have also have a background in planning so that you can look at this whole issue from a much broader perspective about you know where people should be biking and how they should be biking safely. How do you tonight when you're focusing on the safety aspects of this. What can be done right now that maybe this this guy who lost his life last week that will happen. Yeah two key things that we want to talk about tonight is education and enforcement in it. For the city the number one priority of any transportation program and the mayor's goal with our transportation program is safety. And in the short term improving education for all users of the road that's foremost in any think about. We live in. We

live in a big city and there is a lot of people that live here and are all trying to use the road simultaneously. And we've got pedestrians cars and cyclists in there competing for the road and and what we need to get across is that we all need to respect each other. We need to share the road and respect each other and be less aggressive. I was reading some comments and I read from cyclists talking about being doored with I guess that's just you know motorists opening up their door and slamming into the cyclists who may be coming up beside a parked car parking. So absolutely a lot of awareness in the cars that you need to look behind you because there are cyclists there so when you open your door look behind you to the cyclists wear a helmet. Our goal is to make the roads as safe as possible. It's still important for a cyclist to and I like to think of it as respect yourself where Houma. Because if you do get in an accident it doesn't matter whose fault it is the helmet will save your life. Now David you've been quoted as saying there's a me first attitude going on here which makes it you know

that's one of the ongoing problems with trying to do what Nicole has that needs to be done. Well what we see is that cyclists aren't unique. We're very much like everybody else in the Boston area in the way we think about how we get around. And unlike some other cities where I've biked or or walked. We see bicyclists not following the rules. Lots of motorists following the rules I mean Boston driver is a well-known phrase and we see a lot of pedestrians not following the rules as well. Everybody seems most concerned with getting wherever they're going as fast as possible and not thinking enough about how what they're doing may impact everybody else who's sharing the same space. I have to say from a personal experience I am now a nervous wreck when I see cyclists coming up beside me because a dear friend of mine lost her brother because of a motorist who was at fault. And he was on his cycle on his bicycle doing what he was supposed to do. But the motorist was not. So I am just about a nervous wreck and I don't think that's the proper

attitude either for a motorist to have when you see a cyclist. I mean what can I do to reduce my tension so that I'm being safe as well. Well the nervousness I think comes largely from the fact that most motorists just don't know how they're supposed to behave around bicyclists and that cuts two ways they don't know what the law actually is and what they are required to do and they don't understand the common sense parts about maneuvering around cyclists. We're launching a major safety campaign in cooperation with four state agencies called same roads same rules and the focus of that is on bicyclists and motorists getting people to understand how to interact safely which is a combination of following the rules and using common sense and really trying to put a human face on each other so that we're not just viewing each other monolithically as those are the drivers and these are the bicyclists we're all just people trying to get somewhere safely. The best cities seem to cyclists seem always to be West you know.

Davis California Portland Oregon Seattle these are the places that come to mind and many other California cities. How. Why. I guess is the question. That's a good question. They did start their programs 10 15 years ago and they've they've committed a lot of time to develop you know a bike network. New York City recently has done some fantastic work and in many ways they're pioneers. Now is that they have more people crowded up in the smaller space so how can they be better than us. Well they started ahead of us but we definitely are following what they're doing and employing some of the best practices. At some point in Boston we now say this The car is no longer King in in our transportation programs the mayor has made it very clear that we're going to compete complete streets policy and it will look at the needs of pedestrians. It will look at the needs of cyclists and it will look at the needs of cars and really balance those and what that means is you might make

tradeoffs so you might have a road that has three car lanes and you realize well if we remove one car lane or if we remove a lane of parking it doesn't reduce the level of service much for cars but it dramatically improves the climate for the bikers and the pedestrians. And when the car is no longer King King you can start looking at those tradeoffs and make some very significant infrastructure improvements that will. Really impact the safety for all users of the road and that can help. We have narrow streets here in Boston you know all the historical stuff that is the cost of you know preserving that is that the streets are quite narrow so that would offset presumably some of the some of that as an issue. Yes correct. This is Earth Day weekend you know all of this bike riding is very environmentally friendly. Dave I wonder if you have any stats or information about what is the difference in those communities that we know our best cities for cycling in terms of lower

impact on the environment better health all of that stuff. Well there's no question if you look particularly at European cities where the percentage of people who are biking regularly is much higher than any city in the U.S. in the U.S. the best cities are somewhere around 5 percent of trips in Europe. There are some cities that are north of 30 percent of trips are being made by bike. And in those cities you definitely see people are healthier. I believe they've measured significant or measurable differences in greenhouse gas emissions and they have definitely reduced traffic congestion in their urban core. OK Nicole wants to get in I am going to get the statistics. Let's go Friedman by these are for the city of Boston Go Ahead This is the numbers pardon me League of American Bicyclists did a great study they looked at the 10 best bike

friendly cities in the US. Compare them to the ten worst bike friendly cities and they found that there's 25 percent less deaths due to asthma and air quality issues in the bike friendly cities than the least bike friendly cities. There's another statistic from them and I can't remember the numbers but they surveyed a number of people in the bike that didn't bike and then they surveyed a bunch that did bike and in a follow up study 10 years ago 10 years later. Basically what came out is there were a lot more alive still. Of the ones that bite. But another good number £13 the average first year cycling commuter loses 13 pounds. OK. You know for Boston we see cycling as really the nexus of the Sustainability Initiative the economic initiatives economic development and health and obesity. When you've got you've got Mayor Menino biking so that says something to you and we can all speak to like

longevity as far as he's concerned. Abbott office that overworked and the mayor is really the perfect ambassador because he is who the program its is about the mayor's bike program is about making Boston welcoming for anyone to bike it's not just cyclists it's not about people in spandex but it's about a father pulling his child in a stroller a grandmother riding with you know a son or daughter. It's about everyone being able to bike. My colleague Emily Rooney wonders Mike I mean Dave if you can start a program where there's a buy give away. She said she visited a friend in the condo association there were a lot of abandoned bikes for people who used to bike and now they're just sitting around and she envisioned a program where maybe everybody showed up on the common and people you know were able to get those buy similar to what Seattle did I think years ago in terms of making sure people people had bikes who didn't have them. Is that something you guys might do in the future.

It's not something Mass bike does. There are a number of agencies that municipalities that do collect bikes and redistribute them. And I think Nicole has something to say about that. Yeah. We've been working with the Boston Public Health Commission and we just received a grant in as part of the Grant one of our tasks is to refurbish and distribute a thousand bicycles to individuals from low income families. So you might want to hit up Emily Ronie and get her friend to donate to one simple way where it is hard to take. Please buy like OK I'm Calla Crossley and we've been talking about bag safety in Boston with Nicole Friedman bikes are for the city of Boston and David Watson executive director of mass bike Nicole Freeman and David Watson thank you so much for joining us. If you want to attend the bike safety summit it's tonight 5:30 to 7 at Boston University's Morse auditorium. Up next it's a look at Episcopal Barbie and what we can learn from the 11 and a hand trip him to know about the role of women in the clergy. We'll be back after this break stay with us.

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very real dollars you contribute during the campaign. This program is a collaborative effort on your part in the process that holds everything together. And the folks behind the scenes do their part by making a financial and the number to call 8 9 7. If you're by your computer. Visit our website. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. Forget about Malibu Barbie the doll is gone devout trading in her sweater sets in swimsuits for cloaks some conflicts and the transformation from beach bunny to ordain priest is giving us something to think deeply about in terms of how women are perceived in the clergy.

Joining us to talk about this latest career move in Barbie's long life is Reverend Julie Blake Fisher. She is the creator of The Episcopal priest Barbie and the rector of Christ Episcopal Church and can't Ohio. And here with me is Reverend Sara Irwin rector of the Christ Church Episcopal in Waltham. Reverend Fisher and Reverend Irwin welcome. I thank you. Hey Kelly. Reverend Fisher I have to start with you now. You had a past life as a professional dressmaker. So you had the skills to give Barbie her new costuming her holy costuming as it will. But why did you decide to do it. Well about two years ago my church was using a Sunday school program that has children use different kinds of toys and tools to do hands on learning about the gospel. So I thought they'd like to have a doll they could dress up to learn about the vestments and of course Barbie came to mind. I have a lot of little girls in my church. So I made a basic set of vestments for her and the kids really like that a lot.

There she has a whole set I understand according to one piece I read various colored chess the bowls the sleeveless vestments worn at Mass for every liturgical season black clergy search shirt with white collar neat skirt and heels a lap top with prepared salmon and a miniature do you know what. That's fabulous all the details. Originally she just had a very basic set of what I wear on Sunday. But when a friend of mine who is also a priest saw her she just fell in love with her and said if you ever have time I would buy one if you made one. Well she got a puppet call out of state and I decided she needed a farewell present so I took the Barbie I already had and thought I would send that to her but I thought maybe I should just have a little extra make something new to go with her that she hasn't seen before. So I started making one thing after another and before I knew it she was Episcopal priest Barbie High Church Ed. church wing of our church is leans towards Catholic spirituality.

So I dressed Barbie to the nines and everything that someone with Catholic spirituality would have. OK now the Barbie right now is with Reverend Dina Cleaver Bartholomew that's your friend who's the rector of Christ Episcopal Church in Manolis New York near Syracuse. The Christ Church is today high Yeah. And I should let our listeners know that this cool Barbie has 65 hundred Facebook fans at last count her own Facebook page. So this is no small thing. I really it's up to 73 hundred. Well see there you go. Even as we say. I want to get Reverend Irwin in this. What did you think when you first heard about Episcopal Barbie. I just think it's adorable. You know Barbie is certainly a freighted topic. You know I grew up and played with Barbies and came out of it OK but there are certainly lots of issues with body image and expectations of female beauty and everything that come along with her but she's also this icon of you know childhood and so why shouldn't you know my profession be reflected there. Now it's only been 30 years since women have been allowed to be priests in the Episcopal

Church. You look to be just about that age I have to say Are you one of the first women priests were ordained before I was born and what is this so what does this say what does this mean in terms of the role of women in the clergy in the church. Because this global Barbie has sparked a real conversation about this. I think it's a sign that we're we're getting where we need to be but we're not there yet. I think that the amount of conversation that it's created in terms of the critical end is certainly a sign that not everyone shares our opinion and even in the Church of people who might you know say yes we support women clergy it's a little bit different when they're actually going to have a woman priest in their congregation. But you know as far as my experience goes I feel I've been at my parish now for almost five years. And it's true you know I came there when I was 27. And but we have this great relationship now and I'm just their priest and and that's the way it is. But there's still some work to do certainly.

What was the initial reaction and what is it like now. I think initially there was a question of well you know who is this woman and oh my gosh she's so young. And a little maybe a little unsure ness but we've gotten to know each other. And now I think it's just a matter of course I mean I have two kids now and I had both of them in the course of working at Christ Church so. So we've really kind of grown together and the congregation has grown we've got a lot more families and people coming into the congregation now than when I was first there so we're all just growing together in our faith and in our practice. Now Reverend Fisher You made the doll for you know the first one of course for for your young parishioners and for your friend now who has the the the one with the full compliment of clergy outfits. But you said that you really wanted to go Barbie to be a tool for evangelism Can you explain. Well I had a couple different reasons for making her. Besides just wanting the children to be able to play with investments. I also want to girls to see that that's a possible vocation for

them as well. I felt called to the priesthood when I was 12 years old. But I'm a little older than Sarah. I'm forty nine and when I first felt called Women weren't allowed to be priests and there was nothing to encourage girls who might feel that vocation from God. I didn't see a woman priest until I was 18 years old. And so having a Barbie enables girls to imaginatively play all the different possibilities that God might call them to in life. And so I was hoping that having a Barbie there would be something supportive for girls in ministry. Also I wanted to glorify God. I love being a priest. I get such joy out of it. And so making Barbie was my way of laughing with God. God has a fabulous sense of humor. I want to share with some of our listeners some of the highlights from the Facebook page. Audrey Leger Wood said she just found out about Episcopal priest Barbie from my daughter Episcopal priest Sherri who is the same age as Barbie and both became priests

in mid life. So lots in common. Then there's another one this is really great. Best regards from a Danish female minister. My dress looks a bit different. And I love this one saw this in the local Syracuse paper this morning and loved it. Many many laughing clergy in heaven right now. I love that comment too. Now I'm going back to Reverend Irwin who is the rector of Christ Church to school here and while him and let me share with you some of the comments that aren't so nice. Please no priestesses any man or woman wearing the Roman collar is an impostor. If he is not an authentic Catholic priest. And that's because some of the garments look very similar. It's impossible for a woman to be a Roman Catholic priest. If a woman is wearing a Roman collar immediately it is apparent that she is a fraud. How do you respond to that. Reverend Irwin I guess I feel like I think sometimes you know you look at denominational differences and we're all just trying to be faithful Christians in the way that we understand God is calling us to be and I think you know

being having female clergy or having gay and lesbian clergy is not some sort of concession to modernity it's not like the church is in this position away and says well you know look at these things that are OK in society so we should make those things OK in the church too. The church is about justice and peace and equality that's the dream of God. That's what God wants for everyone. And our congregations and our clergy all have to are called to represent that. Peace and Equality. And I think it's you know we read scripture differently. Sorry. We are speaking with reverence there are one who is the rector of the Christ Church Episcopal and while fam and the Rev. Julie Blake Fisher who is the creator of Episcopal priest Barbie listeners we want to hear from you what's been your experience in the church would you like to see women clergy in the church. And are you a woman who has not pursued a career in the church because you fear discrimination. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 that's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70.

Now Reverend Fisher Reverend Irwin has a particular another aspect to the story that I think is interesting in that your husband is also ordained and yet when you were both looking for work. What happened. It was it was a little. Different My husband is the priest at Grace Church in Medford here in the Boston area and we. We entered the ordination process at the same time and we went to seminary together and we actually got married in seminary and we were on the same day and our our resumes looked a lot alike coming out of school. And yet when we entered the job market the the office kind of kept rolling in for him and not so much for me and for two people who are nearly the same on paper it was pretty striking that that was the one difference. And. And now I think that we were both in the right place for us and you know one of the things about the Christian faith is that you know we don't believe that anything is ever dead. You know we have this thing called the resurrection that sort of creates newness. So

certainly it's turned out well but but that it didn't I wasn't so sure starting out. Has the recent scandal surrounding the Catholic Church for Reverend Fischer influence the conversation about women in the church. Do you think. I think so. Newsweek just recently had an article entitled What would Mary do which was about. It said that if women were clergy and equally ran the church and the Catholic Church that the sex scandal would never have happened. I don't know if that's necessarily so but I do think that the Episcopal Church can be proud that it has the full range of talents and skills and ability from all members of our church to draw into ordained ministry. And I think that's something we can celebrate. We've been doing that for 30 years. And any church that doesn't do that now is invited to just watch us and see how it works out in practice. But very well so far.

Oh good. I was going to ask Reverend Irwin what you thought. You know you're going. I think it's hard to say I think that in our in our tradition we do have this this wide variety of people who can be clergy and that's you know that's the that's our practice and that's our wonderful like giving practice and you know with Julie I think we invite others to come and see what that's like and hopefully you know that same model can flourish in other places too I heard on the radio a while ago in an interview where somebody was talking about the Catholic Church and said that they thought in terms of centuries not you know days and months and years but centuries and I just think that that it's a different view. Do you think it makes a difference that women priests are different in the way they live in the church than than men priests. That's such a hard question. I'm I'm someone who's never really quite fit well into the sort of feminine stereotype and so I'm always really uncomfortable with saying that women can women

do things this way and men do things this way. But I think certainly you know an experience as someone who is a you know the other if you will you know the one who is not always assumed to be the priest can be the priest and that you lead from a different way that standpoint we have a caller Barbara from Newton Go ahead please. I have a friend. She and her husband are both students at three in Andover Theological Seminary. And I asked her about the compensation of women priests versus men priests and they are by no means equal. Barbara that's a provocative question and we are about to go to break and when we come back I'm going to have our guests address that. So can you hang on OK. Yeah we are talking about the role of women in the clergy and what can we learn from Episcopal Barbie with my guests Reverend Julie Blake Fisher and Reverend Sara

Irwin. Will be back. After this break stay tune to eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Boston Lyric Opera presenting Mozart's dramatic song in Italian with English translation April 23rd through May 4th at the city Schubert theatre. Info available at B L O org and from our HCI the rehabilitation hospital of the Cape and Islands helping patients get home and back to life after illness injury or surgery and get stronger faster at our HCI. RHC dot org. And from Windsor place of Wilmington and all new assisted living residence minutes from Boston and New Hampshire office I-93 exit 38. Offering a range of lifestyle and care plans more at Windsor place of Wilmington dot com. Hello I'm John Adams president of the GBH. This community campaign I mean

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At WGBH Don. And thank you and thank you if you've already called 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4 or visited WGBH dot org today. Because if you did your contribution has been matched dollar for dollar due to a small group of Ralph Lowell society members who came in this morning and said we'd really love to help you out by putting 100000 dollars on the table and saying to the audience for shows like the Calla Crossley Show please give to the station and we will match that dollar for dollar and a lot of folks are taking part in that today in Cali. Yesterday it was a sports today it's Barbie and this issue it is a couple Barbie and this couple by not just anybody. This is a complex issue really it's at they started listening to it at the beginning and talk a little bit about it and how you're touching on the subject in a way that you know maybe different. Well we like to enter into a discussion about issues coming at it from an angle that has not been explored before so the creation of episcopal Barbie gave us an

opportunity to really have a broader conversation about women in the clergy specifically in the Episcopal Church but certainly even broader about women in the church in leadership roles. So it does and it does have the course the local angle you have someone actually who's holding right now to talk about this subject on the line so we're taking calls. And so you've got a local you've got sort of international It's a very you know. It's a complex issue and we think on public radio it's a good place for the number to call is 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4 or online at WGBH dot org and speaking of local for a gift of $60 or just $5 a month as a sustainer. We will send along the Food Lover's Guide to Massachusetts which has everything food in here foodies galore. Yeah I noticed there were a lot of notations about where to get certain kinds of foods and wine. As you know I have food and wine contributors right. You know I think Kelly Crossley shows I'm very interested in that and some good recipes as well.

Yes it is it's a terrific book that if you're sourcing fresh foods or if you want to find a brewery or if you are interested in any anything it's really made in this area handmade. This is the book and will have a long talk some day about Jonathan Allsop who is one of your founder of the Boston Wine School I mean one of my contributors He is one of the funniest people I've ever heard on the radio. So if you love programs like this please support it by calling 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4 online at WGBH dot o r g and you'll. We will make sure that your pledge is matched dollar for dollar. When you give a call again $60 gets you the Food Lover's Guide to Massachusetts. And that will just take you along. You know the wind trails that we have always thought that wind trails was something that I left behind. Oh no no no no and people will be surprised to know. And they should know there's there are wind trails in every state in the union there are wineries everywhere. And it's a great it's so it's a great place to be and you know if you want to support local

radio and local purveyors give us a call 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4 online at WGBH dot o r g. Make your gift to WGBH go twice as far as the dollar for dollar match that's in effect right now. No matter how much you give other GBH supporters will match your contribution dollar for dollar doubling the size of your membership starts with the gift in any amount and every gift made this hour goes this far. Call a bagel. 9 7 9 4 2 4. What have your gift matched dollar for dollar when you give online at WGBH dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kalee Crossley. If you're just tuning in we're talking about the role of women in the Church with Reverend Julie Blake Fisher. She's the creator of The Episcopal priest Barbie

and the rector of Christ Episcopal Church in Kent Ohio. We're also joined by Reverend Sara Irwin rector of the Christ Church Episcopal and Weill fam. And before the break we left Barbara Newton hanging and we want to get her back on the line. She asked a great question she is a friend trying to be a female priest but the pay grades are different. Reverend Fisher you want to weigh in. Actually I could say a word to that. When women were first ordained they found it very difficult to get congregations because in the Episcopal Church each congregation gets to choose its own priest with help and support from the diocese. So if a congregation was not quite up to hiring a woman they didn't get one. So a lot of women had to make do with taking parishes that were marginal and that for some reason didn't have a lot of choice in who they could call because they were small troubled or didn't have a lot of money. So it's slowly taken time for women to build up positions in the church where they got lots of experience in larger and larger parishes. But I'm glad to say that it's just really improved considerably in the past 10

years. And now our presiding bishop the head of the entire church is a woman. The Reverend Katharine Jefferts Schori. That's true. Ravenor when you spoke about having difficulty even landing a job as opposed to your husband who was also ordained. Have you experienced a better situation out in terms of pay equity. I think it depends you know a lot of it does depend on the size of the congregation and that's how those things are frequently frequently figured out. I remember when presiding bishop Schori was elected. I didn't think it would happen and then it did and I was like well sure that's wonderful she can be the head of the whole church but is a woman ever going to be called you know the rector of an enormous church like Trinity Boston and now Trinity Boston does have a female director so you know I find myself being surprised in delightful ways about how well we're doing. At times so yeah. You know it's we're working on it. What do you think in terms of other people who are not in the Episcopal Church Reverend Fisher

Episcopal Barbie has done to sort of raise awareness not only about this issue but about you know being a pice. Well I believe that on her Facebook site there have been a lot of comments from Roman Catholics who have a lot of pent up desire to see pictures of a woman priest. They've never seen a woman priest and to see pictures of Barbie looking joyful and happy about being a woman priest wearing the same vestments that they see their priests wearing. To them as a source of joy a prophecy for the future hopefully. And it's been a real pleasure for me to give them a word of encouragement with that. Now Mattel has not yet endorsed Episcopal Barbie do you think it will. The company will. I doubt it I think she's too much of a lightning rod. She offends a certain segment of the conservatives out there and probably wouldn't be good for a mass market. I might suggest making her part of the American Girl series then they have a background story you know so often controversial not a problem for the American girls and I want to

switch that up. But I just want to let our listeners know that you are also making Bishop Barbie who is African-American and you're making can and can who is next to be finished. And he's Latino. And Ken has a friend in the church who is Deacon Steve why. Well it's in the natural next natural place to go and a lot of people on her page requested it. So I thought of course I need to make a whole set of vestments for a bishop there different set of vestments that they wear. I need to make and I've been wanting to make a deacon for a long time. So why not have a male deacon. I wanted to have some boys in there too not just girls and some children so they'll be a Barbie's little sister Kelly will be an acolyte which is one of the children who are special to us means to help with the liturgy. Reverend are when do you think you can persuade Reverend Fisher to get you a copy of this global Barbie that lets this ship Barbie something you should have.

So you know I've got Sunday School kids to see this. I have to say I've been really enjoying the response by other writers as they described Episcopal Barbie and then went on to of course the larger issues. Here's my favorite This was by Jim LICHTMAN And I'm not certain where it aired I think this is nothing to post it says she's smart sassy and now she's sanctified. Who am I talking about why it's a pesky part I just love that. Robin I went how did you find out about Episcopal priest Barbie. I saw her on Facebook. Oh so you're a Facebook person and the Facebook person yes. And of course many of my friends are clergy and I saw one by one becoming friends of a priest Barry so I had to be to what he want people to take away from you know it's lighthearted but there are some issues here. First to you Reverend Fischer What do you want people to take away from this room from Episcopal priest Barbie.

Who gets ordained is not up to us. It's up to the Holy Spirit that God calls anybody he wants to be a priest anybody. It is not up to us to put boundaries around that or restrictions. It would be blasphemous blasphemous for us to do so. And so anybody can be a priest if God calls them to be. And so Bobby should be a priest too. What do you think Reverend. I think it's a an alternative view of power and privilege and for so long anything that is religious or spiritual has been assumed to be in the male domain and it is not so. And we need to get that word out there that the doors open to everyone and yet age and gender are still issues I mean not just for the the Episcopals But I mean I'm a Protestant in the Baptist Church this is not a male dominated this is just a team across the board. What do you think about that. It is. It absolutely is and I think and you know any of these things you know racism sexism homophobia you know all of these things are sort of.

Besides I mean you can't have three sides of a coin if you can't separate them out. You know I came to Christ Church as a young woman priest. I am now a mother and a priest. I can't be one and not the other at the same time and all of these are always you know intersecting in different ways I mean I came to my priesthood from a particular place of privileges having been raised in the Episcopal Church you know my parents are really involved in the church still in northwest Pennsylvania and so you know I came into it with certain advantages too that I'm aware of that not everyone has either so we all we always just have to be looking at these places of privilege and you know constantly seeking to undo them and and open the doors to more people. We are speaking with reverence there are one who is the rector of the Christ Church Episcopal and well family and also the Reverend Julie Blake Fisher who is the creator of Episcopal priest Barbie and the rector of Christ Episcopal Church in Canton Ohio. Robin are when you were one year old when it all changed in the Episcopal Church 30 years ago and women were able to be priests. What do you say to a young woman who's aspiring to be a priest

today. Just go for it you know work hard for it believe that you can do it find good people to support you along the way. And don't don't take no for an answer for what you know you're called to do. Reverend Blake Fisher What would you say to a young woman aspiring to be a priest. Pray pray pray. This is not a job to do unless you are called by God to do it. It's all the most wonderful job in the world but it also is stressful and challenging. And if it is not what God has called you to do do something else. So pray about it. It was it was put to me in a in a slightly more negative way when I was in the ordination process someone said to me please sir if you can think of anything else to do with your life do that instead. Now you know you really have to be ready to engage in it. Was this another braised it was. Oh my yes. You're not surprised by that Robert Fisher. No not at all no no not at all. And my husband is a priest as well.

Oh yes he was ordained 10 years before I was and we've been very active in the Episcopal church ever since we were married 27 years ago. And I know I knew fully well what I was getting into. And I I would never be a priest unless I was called to be one. It's hard to get to be an Episcopal priest It takes years and years. You have to go to seminary for three years you have to go through many layers of committees that with with long lead times of multiple years. And so you have to be very persistent and hang in there. And I know that I would not be a priest unless God made me one. So it's not something for the faint of heart. Some people say you can't be it unless you can see it. So the power of the political Barbie may be that others can actually see it I'm talking about little children and little girls now I would be so gratified if that were so. That's wonderful. You agree Reverend and I do and you know I had my family went to a church that had a female priest when I was growing up and I didn't have any particular relationship with her.

I like Julie I wasn't sure that I was called to do this from you know age 12 but it was it was just part of the horizon that was possible and you know in this diocese Bishop Barbara Harris was the first female bishop in the entire world and African-American. That's right and you know this is this is what we're about. So when you when were you aware of Bishop Perez I'm just trying to follow the line now. I think she was consecrated in 89 so I would have been 11 and probably not paying too close attention. Yeah actually I have I have a slight memory of my mother telling me about it and trying to make me understand what a big deal it was and it was sort of like Sure whatever. But to have the top person now be a woman. It's a great day. It is and I think she's doing such a great job that you know this the job of the bishop is to be the sign of unity and and I think I think she's going to reach out. We're going to leave it there and I think this is fabulous. I'm not in the because it's compelling but I like this couple. Barbie Reverend Julie Blake Fisher is the creator of the priest Barbie and the

rector of Christ Episcopal Church in Kent Ohio. Reverend Sarah Arwen is the rector of the Christ Church supposed couple and while fam Reverend Julie Blake Fisher and reverence their Irwin thank you so much for joining us. You think you. Thank you. You could give a top of the Calla Crossley Show by visiting our website WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley where production of WGBH radio Boston NPR station for news and culture. Support your local connection for one of a kind programs from NPR

and WGBH with the sustaining gift of $5 a month and eighty nine point seven will say thanks with the Food Lovers Guide to Massachusetts. Written by Cambridge based authors Patricia Harris and David Lyon. The Food Lovers Guide to Massachusetts is loaded with the latest information on local farmers markets restaurants and foodie events plus best loved recipes from some of the Commonwealth's most celebrated chefs. 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4. Or make your contribution securely on line at WGBH dot org. And that number 8 8 8 8 9 7 9 4 2 4 and online at WGBH dot org that's where people have been checking in all day today to see how to tell WGBH that they appreciate the public radio that international and local all at the same time. Barry Nelson here with Cali crossflow who put together another great live show for us here today talking about

Episcopalian Barbee Episcopal Barbie and and biking around the city. Yeah the safety summit coming up. This is this is the kind of programming that I really think that needs to be covered here on the radio on public radio in the way that we do it so if you want to talk about how that and your work on WGBH to kind of works together. Well anytime you have time to really explore these subjects it was great when my two guests Nicole Friedman and Dave Watson Dave Watson for MassPike a nickel Friedman the bikes are sat down and said how much time do we have because they're accustomed of course to running in and out in. And here we have time to actually have a conversation about the various aspects of bike safety and what Mayor Menino is trying to do in the city what Nicol Friedman is trying to do. And they were quite pleased to be able to have the time to explore that. And so was I. So if that's the single thing that we hear back from from listeners is that gee it's so nice to have a conversation go on a bit so that I can catch all of it.

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