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I'm Sue O'Connell. This is the Kelly Crossley Show. We're talking leadership with a look at what today's leaders can learn from explorer Ernest Shackleton in 1014 Shackleton and his crew set out on a polar crossing that faced one disaster after the next. First their ship is trapped in pack ice in literally buckles under pressure. Next they're stranded on an ice floe alone in the world's most unforgiving environment they face snowstorms subzero temperatures and starvation. But two years after setting sail Shackleton saves his entire crew in a world where turbulence is the norm. Can our leaders today learn something from Shackleton's ability to contain chaos and manage fear. From there we look at art Emerson's theatrical production of Shackleton's 914 voyage up next radio Shackleton. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh. Anti-abortion

and abortion rights demonstrators are gathering in Washington D.C. and at state capitals across the country. NPR's Kathy Lohr reports annual rallies are underway to mark the U.S. Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion for decades. Anti-abortion activists have protested the 1973 decision that legalized abortion known as Roe versus Wade. In recent years much of the anti-abortion sentiment has been seen in states where GOP led majorities have passed bills aimed at limiting or ending abortion among them bills that would outlaw abortion if a fetal heartbeat is present. Laws that increase regulations at clinics and initiatives to restrict abortion based on the assumption that fetuses feel pain. Kathy Lohr NPR News. The Supreme Court has ruled that police must obtain a warrant before putting a tracking device on a car. NPR's Nina Totenberg reports the unanimous decision appears to settle a contentious law enforcement issue of the modern age.

The FBI working with police in Washington D.C. attach a GP s tracking device to the car of suspected drug dealer and Warren Jones. They tracked him for 30 days and eventually found a stash house with 97 kilos of cocaine an eight hundred fifty thousand dollars in cash. Jones was convicted of drug trafficking and sentenced to life in prison. But today the Supreme Court unanimously reversed the conviction because law enforcement authorities did not obtain a warrant. Nina Totenberg NPR News Washington. Rural communities in the Midwestern and southern US are clearing debris from severe storms including suspected tornadoes that are blamed for at least two deaths and dozens of injuries. As dawn broke this morning Alabama residents in the Birmingham area found roofs blown off buildings and streets littered with shards of glass. NPR's Russell Lewis is in Centrepoint where he says authorities spent the morning going door to door to find possible victims. What I'm seeing are a local a lot of local law enforcement these are just local people that at this point. They are really in an active search and rescue mode. Power is

out there's been a lot of damage a lot of trees downed power lines are down. You see a lot of tree trucks coming in trying to get the trees off the power lines and trying to cut where they can. NPR's Russell Lewis in Center Point. The U.S. Geological Survey says a magnitude 6.2 earthquake has struck off a central Chilean town of Concepcion. No word yet on possible damage or injuries. The Pakistani army is formally rejecting Washington's findings that a deadly U.S. airstrike carried out last year along the Pakistan Afghanistan border was justified because it was self-defense. In a report today the Pakistani military says its troops fired at militants not coalition forces. As Washington had claimed at last check on Wall Street Dow is down forty two points. This is NPR News. The European Union is banning imports of oil from Iran. It joined the U.S. in imposing new economic sanctions to pressure Iran into halting its nuclear program. Snubbing the West a man's a prominent Iranian lawmaker told local media

that Iran maintains the right to close the Strait of Hormuz a crucial oil export a route that if shut down could choke off crude to ailing European economies. Today benchmark Brant oil futures topped $110 a barrel. A lonely journey has ended in victory for British adventurer Felicity Aston. Larry Miller reports she has broken two cross continent ski records. Felicity Aston described as an adventurer and explorer has become the first woman to cross the icy Antarctic alone. The 33 year old is also the first human to ski across Antarctica using her own muscle power. She accomplished the dual feat in 59 days when it was all over. Aston posted this message and I am so amazing to be finished. Oh yes. Now you all of the reason I've been is. Oh yeah I tell you I believe I have yeah I've crossed that Aston tweet she's in a tent in

bad weather waiting for a small plane to pick her up and take her to a base camp. For NPR News I'm Larry Miller in London. U.S. stocks turning lower with the Dow off 40 points it's a twelve thousand six hundred eighty one in trading of about 2 billion shares Nasdaq off ten point its a two thousand seven hundred seventy seven and the S&P 500 off slightly at thirteen twelve and Lakshmi Singh NPR News Washington. Support for NPR comes from IBM working to help mid-sized businesses become the engines of a Smarter Planet. Learn more at IBM dot com slash engines. Good afternoon I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly Krause Lee and this is the Kelly Crossley Show today. We're talking about explorer Ernest Shackleton and it's a focus on what today's leaders might be able to learn from his 1914 expedition. My guest Nancy Kane recently wrote a piece

about this for the New York Times titled Leadership Lessons from the Shackleton expedition. Nancy Kane is a historian at the Harvard Business School and we're also joined by Stephanie Barshefsky a professor in the Department of History at Clemson University. She's the author of Antarctic destinies. Scott Shackleton and the changing face of heroism thank you both for joining me today. I want to start with you Nancy and talk a little bit about the expedition itself and what some of the base the base story is for our listeners. Well it's a it's a tale you know that has the added advantage as Kissinger once said of being true an astounding tale that really begins as World War One breaks out when Shackleton sets forth with twenty seven other men heading south with the aim very interesting Lee today in light of the British explorer who just skied across Antarctica walking across the continent being the

first expedition to do that. You know you're right your listeners will remember that the pole was actually discovered three years before in 1911 by a Norwegian explorer named Roald Amundsen. So that prize and the fame that attended it was no longer up for grabs so Shackleton has another fame gathering patriotism creating adventure in mind and that and his expedition set sail their last port of call before they get into Antarctic waters is a small whaling Island Whaling Station on this island called South Georgia just northwest of the continent of Antarctica and the whalers there who are not unaccustomed to ships exploratory ships sailing that way say do not go south. Shackleton there sway way too much pack ice big huge floating bergs that literally create a jigsaw on the ocean surface but Shackleton

impatient reckless ambitious energetic proceeds well in a couple of weeks this is now early 1915 as they get within you know literally sighting distance of the continent. The ship is in a fact jammed stock taken by the icebergs and it's now own if you will by the floating currents underneath those birds. The power of the engine the power of the steering all the human power on that ship cannot move it and so suddenly an expedition that's all about fame and adventure and potential glory and power is now a very different kind of enterprise. Professor. Stephanie Barshefsky Can you talk a little bit about the context of this I think many of our listeners will know about Robert Falcon Scott Some may only know a little bit about Shackleton Can you talk a little bit about why we know more about Scott than Shackleton and put into context where the fame came from and who was the

winner of the fame game back in that day. Sure. Yeah the immediate context is that prior to 900 very little was known about Antarctica because there had been very little exploration most of the polar exploration had focused on the Arctic and it was only really after the North Pole was successfully conquered in one thousand nine that the focus really shifted to the South Pole. And for a long time you had a kind of race between these two British explorers. You had Robert Falcon Scott who had gone first to Antarctica on the Discovery expedition of 19 0 1 2 9 0 4 which had really been the first major expedition to conduct major scientific inquiry and serious long term sledging journeys in the Antarctic they didn't get particularly close to the pole it wasn't realistic to think that they were going to get close to the pole but they did establish a new farther south. Shackleton then who had actually been an officer on Scott's expedition on the Discovery expedition and some say that he was motivated by the fact that he had become ill on the southern journey with

Scott's and his companion Edward Wilson and had been sent home. And there are some who suggest that the Shackleton was very motivated to prove his sort of physical hardiness by going back to the an arctic he formed his own expedition in 1005 the Nimrod expedition in which he came within less than a hundred miles of the South Pole and I always think that you know of the many moment that we point to and Shackleton's career in some ways to me that was the most impressive that he turns back that close to the pole because he recognizes that it is actually a matter of life and death. And so they come back Scott then has the opportunity to try to become the first explorer to reach the pole as Professor Cain pointed out he is beaten to the pole by five weeks by the Norwegian Roald Amundsen and on the return journey from the pole which God reaches in January of 1906 and his four companions all perish and that's really the story in one thousand twelve why Scott initially is the bigger hero because he dies. Nancy can I want to ask you as well both the elements of the personality

that go into the story of Shackleton I was struck in preparing for the show today have a comment or a poem that Calvin Trillin wrote about Rudy Giuliani post-9 11 and the bulk of it is that at certain times it must now be conceded a paranoid control freak is just what's needed. And I know that you've commented that when things go wrong it really points out to who you are and what characteristics you have that can get you through or can ruin the rescue. What is it about about Ernest Shackleton that got him in this mess and then got him out of this mess. Well just to pick up on your your first point to Edmund Hillary great mountaineer a climber of many Hill Himalayan peaks including Everest once said that for scientific discovery give me Scott for speed and efficiency of travel give me Ahmanson. But when disaster strikes and all hope is gone. Get down on your knees and pray for Shadow. So here we have a crisis leader who didn't know that he was going to be a crisis later and

and the the arising of that within him. And I you know I agree with trail and I think there's a there's an enormous amount of control instincts and ambition in all these men in Scn in Scott as Stephanie knows so well and in Shackleton what's interesting about Shackleton I think particularly in terms of his personality is how quickly he can shift gears. So you know Giuliani does the same thing in 9/11 right this very ambitious hard driving politician this power gathering man becomes as you know in the moment you know hour by hour kind of survival master not just for New York but really for the entire country Shackleton does the same thing. Like out of that ambition comes this great sense of responsibility for his man I will bring them home alive. Whatever happens I will bring them home alive and comes also with it. These this very carefully filtered very carefully but consistently unmistakably offered compassion for his

men. Again remember filtered within the early 20th century photos of the British Navy. Right this is not a kind of let's get down and talk about our inner emotional child experience right as well as compassion there is this extraordinary sense of the overall mission which is we're going to we're going home alive. Married to this what do I need to do. Hour by hour every single day to make that happen and that great sense of a mental and emotional suppleness to be able to toggle back and forth between the big hairy goal which is not easy. You know they'll have a bath for 18 months I don't see anything like land for longer and there is no GP S. or Google Maps and we need hardly say right that suppleness that he can toggle back and forth between the big mission and what do I need to do right here right now to to ensure that I can get close to that mission and finally something I think is very very important for leaders today and that you didn't see in Shackleton

before this moment there's there's little in the Nimrod diaries and expedition evidence or certainly in the discovery experience which is a hard one as Stephanie said for Shackleton. Incidentally no love lost between Robert Falcon Scott and Ernest Shackleton as a result of that expedition. What you see is this sense of I have to manage and not only my own energy and emotions and I'm using modern language to describe this but also the ethos and energy game twice. I have game fair game face and what is the game face of my men and how do I affect that. Those are incredibly important attributes that surface as you point out. In this moment of disaster one of the differences also Professor Barshefsky was also the difference between Shackleton being a merchant marine and Scott being of the British navy so there's also a difference in sort of their world view. Yeah and that often is is regarded as a key difference between those two men I think Professor Cain just

mentioned there's a sort of naval context and it is true that many of the men on Shackleton's expedition were current or former naval naval officers and men but Shackleton himself was not. His family simply couldn't afford for him to go into naval training when he was younger and so he became an officer in the Merchant Marine and many historians have pointed to that's a significant difference between the two of them and also point out that another difference I think between the modern parallel that the Professor King was making with Rudy Giuliani is that. Rudy Giuliani sort of responded to a crisis that had been sort of thrust upon him where as Shackleton as Professor Cain points out in her in a recent op ed piece in The New York Times that sort of created his own crisis and responded to it and I think he he does deserve great credit for the way in which he responded to it I think we do have to remember though that there were some significant issues in terms of how Shackleton planned his expedition and in terms of how he kind of took the advice of the Norwegian whalers on South Georgia Island who said don't go. Not only are those who are not planning on getting laid you know his story I think there are you know there's lessons we

can sort of abstract from Shackleton's experience if we take the full experience as it has unfolded historically right it's kind of a different story. Professor Julian I want to get back to the sort of time line for for our listeners so they're stuck on this this massive ice and I also was struck by the time difference I mean how long this adventure took and even within the context of that day and age you know where we don't just fly around the world. I don't decide to go to California in the morning and come back two days later. I mean this was a period of how many years from when they set sail to when he rescued just about two years from the time they leave London in a month. Yeah till the time in what will what will be. A South American ship borrowed from Chile the Elco to which he rescues the man. So they're stuck on the ice and the ice starts to break apart the ship. Right and then what happens so that's that's quite dramatic. So imagine you're on the ship. It's it's the end of the winter our summer in the southern hemisphere so it's just beginning to be have some daylight because

there's no light for a lot of the winter. And the ship starts being crushed literally by these two big huge or different pieces of the flow just breaking it at the timbers and at the at the very base of the ship. There's enough time this is important to note for our listeners that for Shackleton and his men to gather water supplies now Shackleton has been South remember twice before and he knows both the terrible demons of scurvy and of starvation the NEP explores heels so this is an expedition that may lack for food variety but they have enough calories throughout to get by and that's important. So they gather supplies including photographs so we have photographs of this expedition they're saved from the ship. And he starts and he sets up camp in tents pays careful attention to who goes in what tent with whom because he doesn't want his doubting Thomases spreading discord and dissent. And they set up one of several tent camps. Now that's

October of 1015 in early November. The ship is claimed by the ice. It literally gets swallowed up in the course of a day. So imagine the ship goes down the ice flows connect over clothes over them and there's nothing but white. It's the beginning of their summer. There is nothing but white and six tents and three life boats. This is astounding if we think about and they are in that situation exactly that situation for well over seven months in till the ice begins to break up. In early 1916 and they take to the lifeboats and try to avoid the killer whales and then they go to one island and then. He goes off to get rescue tries a number of ships to sail to come back to rescue the twenty eight men left on the island. Several attempts finally does it returns and his success is sort of overshadowed by World War when it's over well you know what I mean and I think that's what I think I think that we want to remember too that what really makes what Shackleton does unique

is that boat journey is that 800 mile boat journey across the Drake Passage and all the other things that Professor Cain just so wonderfully articulated. They had all happened before to various polar expeditions that ships have been trapped in the ice they've been crushed by the ice expeditions have been stranded in the ice. And I'm not saying that to minimize the harrowing experience of these men had but that all happened before what is really what really makes Shackleton's leadership unique is that he is able to get in that little boat the James Caird and if you're ever in London I highly recommend going to see it because it is a tiny boat and sailing across the 800 miles of the Drake Passage which is the most treacherous water in the world because it's the only place in the world where there is no land to stop the waves so it's a place where there are regularly hundred foot waves. It is a feat of seamanship that really has never been duplicated. We're talking about we're talking about the explorer Ernest Shackleton looking at what today's leaders can learn from the way he handled his 1914 ant arctic expedition I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly Crossley. We'll be back with more you're listening to eighty nine

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Beyond the Headlines you want to know more about. Stories you'll want to share. News. At. Welcome back to the Kelly Crossley Show I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly Crossley and if you're just joining us we're talking about the explorer Ernest Shackleton. Looking at how what today's leaders might be able to learn from his determination and mix of optimism and pragmatism. I'm joined by Professor Nancy Kane a historian at Harvard Business School. She recently wrote a piece for The New York Times titled Leadership Lessons from the Shackleton expedition and we're also joined by Professor Stephanie Barshefsky a professor in the Department of History at Clemens University and the author of Antarctic destiny. Scott Shackleton and the changing face of heroism. Professor Barshefsky I want to talk a little bit about elected officials and leadership I grew up in Revere Massachusetts and during the 1998

I don't know if you've heard of it the blizzard of 78. We we got hit very very hard and I remember our mayor who wasn't always completely beloved was out on one of the boats going through the beach one section evacuating people himself and I remember I was just a kid at the time but my mom saying you know you would be surprised how many elected officials would actually do that. And I might be a bit more. Optimistic perhaps in my assumption that when push comes to shove no matter what the political leaning or your disagreement with your elected official that they're going to get in the trenches and be there with you. Is that a fair assessment. I mean are there a lot of Shackleton's among our elected officials or are there there fewer. Well you know I think it certainly suggests that the public expects that right I mean we saw that I think during Hurricane Katrina right the iconic image of Hurricane Katrina was President Bush sort of in the plane looking at things from above and I think many many people felt that he should have been on the ground he should

have been more in touch with things and so I think that expectation is imposed upon a lot of our public officials I actually like you and I'm probably more optimistic about politics than. Many people are these days are not as skeptical of the government is always sort of a negative thing and so I think that many of our politicians are do kind of embody the Shackleton model though again I hope they don't embody the Shackleton model in terms of how they get us into these crises in the first place. But I think that in terms of the way that they respond to it then I think the public does have that expectation and I think many of them really do do a good job of responding in that in that way. And Professor Nancy can you talk a lot in your piece in The New York Times about the opportunities that many business leaders had and in fact this this piece you've written has really touched a nerve with business leaders across the country if not the world on ways that some of them should have led and many of them failed Are there any particular examples that you can bring.

So this this article in The Times had its genesis has a longer Harvard Business School case study I wrote on leadership and Shackleton. I've written a whole lot of cases in my two decades at the school and this is a very very pop This is my most popular one by far and the response on the part of many different business people called I have mostly taught this to business leaders and MBA students most of whom were headed for the private sector. Is is one of of. Both I think tempered inspiration. By the way that Shackleton you know rises to his responsibilities and the different ways and different actors that he does that and different attributes he displays as he does it. But interestingly along the way because I've been teaching this case for six or seven years a number of executives have come back to me and given me very specific examples of how Shackleton motivated them or resulted in something different for them. A colleague of mine who's a major fashion executive found Shackleton's ability to keep on keeping

on. So relevant at a time when her big very business was threatened and the politics of her position were threatened that she credits that inspiration with helping her kind of keep her own confidence and courage levels high. I had another executive in the other creative industry. I think there may be a way in which Shackleton speaks more to those kind of businesses than perhaps he does to bankers and financier's although you could argue that there's a lot of responsibility that need to be picked up in those sectors over the last couple of years. In any event that person said I read Shackleton and I went home and completely reorganized my team because I realized how you put people together and how you manage the energy that arises in that grouping is absolutely critical to how productive we are how engaged we are how effective we are and how satisfied we are. So interestingly we you know we're talking about this at the level of heroism in politics and and an attribute. There are aspects of this story that very pragmatic

people take and make very practical. Well I was very struck by the idea that the game face idea which seems like something we would do normally is not a normal situation that. The balance between being hopeful and optimistic without being in denial I mean my cocktail joke party joke is always the difference between optimism and denial is not the same thing for the most part but able to actually back it up on his front with with as you said the small things to make sure that they're moving forward and the picking who was in his tent which you know I think we've all been in workplace or family situations where there's one malcontent who was just born that way. You know it's whatever environment here she might be in. And to keep that person close in the old model of keeping your enemies close rank your friends close and your enemies. You know another interesting aspect of this is of the game face Susan is and it's so it's so it's in such stark contrast you see it so clearly in the circumstance of the expedition and yet it affects us all. Is is how do we

show up right how does it how did Giuliani show up how does a you know an entrepreneur with a small team struggling to get a prototype show up. How does a minister show up. And we we live in such a reactive moment in history I think and I think our technology our crack berries and our iPhones are making us more reactive that we forget that a little bit of consciousness about the power of how we show up and the power of our presence is incredibly important here. You could argue in some moments in this expedition that it could have made the difference between life and death. Stephanie Barshefsky I want to you know speaking of George Bush is showing up at the 9/11 when the when the towers went down was the opposite of Katrina him showing up sort of rallying the workers rallying America and showing up to work was a bit of that game face. And I think that that is often kind of overlooked aspect we talk about Shackleton the inspirational leader we talk about Shackleton as you know kind of maintaining this sense of

optimism and I think I think what Nancy's alluded to there is maybe his greatest strength was his ability to manage people too. I mean both his presence and his showing up as we're talking about. Allowed him to manage people well but also this this ability to manage both people who wanted to contribute to people who are perhaps more difficult in his case he had a very difficult situation that his sort of malcontent that we just talked about what it was was Archibald McNish who was the carpenter. And so it was a absolutely crucial member of the expedition in so many ways. And Shackleton had a very difficult time managing him but ultimately you know was able to get him to do the things that he needed to do in particular to reinforce the James care and get prepared for the 800 mile journey that were that were strictly speaking necessary I guess for me with Shackleton as a leader. When I read in there's been a number of things like Nancy's piece on Shackleton as a business leader the thing that worries me perhaps maybe as a member of the public responding to it rather than actually in a story and responding to it is the issue that Shackleton strength seems to be kind of short

term responses and we talk about this kind of reactive mode of American business and I think there are some folks out there who are maybe a little concerned that maybe American business sometimes is too focused on the short term and not enough on the long term now and maybe that's where Shackleton's weakness was and so if alarm bells ring when I read his story that's really what goes on in my head. Well it's also important to note that from from a business standpoint it was a failure. You know he didn't get where he was. He said it was going on and everything and everything that Shackleton did as a businessman was a failure. Everybody sort of laughed. Yeah you know when he's held up as his model for business for instance you know in the all the business enterprises that he was engaged in sort of outside of his Antarctic fame he was a failure and then he never actually succeeded in any polar expedition that he undertook. And that's you know some of the folks today in the business world that that sort of have the characteristics that are exemplified in the Shackleton story. Well I mean I think Howard Schultz of Starbucks is a great example of someone who has proved himself quite a good crisis leader. And when his ship went astray the the the business of Starbucks in the late beginning in mid to 2007

he like Steve Jobs came back in to save his baby in early 2008 and really really reset the entire company without. Deviating from the core values of that company that's an incredibly progressive incredibly clean company and a lot of that those aspects are owed to Howard he incidentally to Stephanie's point which is very important. The short term thinking and it's not just a I think emblematic of the business world it's emblematic of American society right now. Think of the politics in the even the media discussion of the politics of the presidential campaign. But he unlike Shackleton was was was quite long term and is quite long term in his thinking I think of someone like A.G. Lafley at Procter and Gamble who for 10 years steered that ship took it out of crisis and steered it back right home and safe and intelligently and with a great sense of righteousness in and outside the company. I think of you know of some leaders like like Oprah Winfrey I think Oprah Winfrey is actually a very good example. We

don't we don't put her in the pantheon of great American business leaders but man is she successful on just about every darn count. But there someone with a great sense of the responsibility of the power that she had as she has all this clout with all these viewers and readers and she uses its Salo carefully and toward almost all with almost without exception toward a higher end. So those are three and there are many many others many that we don't hear about or read about you know on a smaller level on a smaller level that are by the way doing the lord's work so to speak in terms of. You know exemplifying these kind of attributes and leading and guiding people. Stephanie how do we get lost from from the sort of basics here I mean I remember just post 9/11. I work at a newspaper and we were concerned about getting packages and mail with anthrax in it and my receptionist in my office manager decided they wouldn't open the mail. So I told them just to bring the mail to my desk and I would open it and it's a very small company. And I remember a an active three

star general in the Marines who was a father friend of mine actually said via my friend that's how a leader leads. And I remember thinking what I have to open the mail what is he talking about. So Stephanie is that you know why what is this little tiny piece of leadership that we seem seem to miss. You know that that's such a simple thing is such a big deal. And I think I think Shackleton was very good at that I mean on the on the first morning when the ship had been crushed there was sort of you know there in this you know giant floating on an ice floe you know and no sight of land for hundreds and hundreds of miles. And the first thing Shackleton did was brought everyone cups of tea. He had eight in it that he had made yes. And he sort of woke everyone up and said OK. And I think that that sometimes we do forget that leadership isn't this you know sort of giant inspirational task but it is inspiration on a small scale and I think Shackleton did truly understand that as a leader. And what was the other part that I was fascinated about was the keeping of schedules. Nancy that you know even and I think that has something to do with the

you know the self-esteem the morale as well as the keeping everybody busy and out of trouble. He kept as much of a normal schedule if you will while they were there as humanly possible. Absolutely. Again this ability to toggle between the small details the small indications of leadership that were you and Stephanie were just talking about. And the big picture you know he spent. I'm sure he spent 20 30 maybe an hour 30 minutes an hour every day on the duty roster which kept moving around. Who would do what. Right the flags went up in the tent camps every day and they came down at sunrise and they came down at sunset. Right there was you know there was there were seals to be killed for meat right there was there were lots of different chores to be done every single day. And it's interesting his approach to killing seals because he didn't want to kill too many at a time no because he was afraid that the men with them think they were going to be stranded for a long time so even that so you know messaging is just amazing.

But this was terribly employee messaging you know like how do you manage the power of the action to communicate your own faith and trust. There's two other pieces here that I think are really important to thinking about the small details and the and the and the and the the magic that's in the duty rosters and the routine. And one is. Just the the unflagging personal commitment that Shackleton had in all that he did and all that he thought about is Stephanie's talking about just his personal commitment that the men just could could ultimately rest back on fall back on and trust. That is really important the second piece that's that's really important all this is how how he's always moving he never falls into what I call the sinkholes of doubt or the 2am cold sweats. But the fact that all of us and all England which was probably Scott's great failing as Absalom Absalom is that I want to ask though how did he manage his fear how did he keep his fear at bay. And what did he was he able to do that there are leaders in the financial crisis have were unable to do.

Well I think I think many of the leaders in the financial crisis have maintained a pretty strong faith in the capitalist system right as we've seen but I do think that that Shackleton had a natural ability and he was not prone to brooding in the way that Scott was and I mean I that's Scott to me as an academic I find him a very appealing character but I can see how it was a kind of a weakness as a polar explorer you know Shackleton he's a romantic character people often talk about the fact that he was Irish he was Anglo Irish and was certainly not an Irish nationalist in the context of the early 20th century but he was still born in Ireland so there are those who attribute his sort of romantic kind of exuberant side to that but he just seems to have been one of those people who was gifted with a great natural optimism. And it really did as much as again that was probably what got him into the ice in the first place. It was also what really did allow him to get out of it and I think we also. The motivation of the rivalry with Scott that Nancy talks about that it was very important Shackleton to keep all his men alive because Scott had not done that. And I know that that probably wasn't a you know the primary factor that.

But I think he did feel he was always very acutely aware and he said it's not actually a true story in some ways because there were three of the men who were awaiting Shackleton's arrival on the other side of the Antarctic continent on the Ross Sea side who actually died while they were waiting for him to arrive which he of course never did. But Shackleton still took tremendous pride in the fact that as a polar explorer the men under his direct command that no one had ever died. Well two quick two quick comments on that first I think Shackleton did have his moments of doubt the day the ship was falls into the ice in the ice close over he writes in his journal journal The insurance is gone I cannot write about it. So that's those are the words of someone who's who's hardly feeling you know a buoyant so there's there's no question that he had his own moment. I'm sure he had to like yourself. But the question is Which did he act on right back to this. The importance of emotional intelligence and to use an old fashioned war forbearance on the part of our leaders. I think that's a really important very important aspect to this that we see just little

flashes in this story. And and I think that you know he was as Stephanie said he was motivated to do this he did have this he did have a romantic Streep streak supposedly he sends this note out of this classified ad that when he's trying to hire men for the expedition that says something like men wanted for hazardous dangerous journeys small wages bitter cold you know not very good food long months of complete darkness constant danger. Safe return. Doubtful right now. All honor and glory if successful right so that's not that's not those aren't the words of an academic. Right. A brooding person. You know those are the words of an optimistic realist you know a little bit like you know maybe Teddy Roosevelt or something. Good thing I was really struck by is that for this period of time that he went through this and I mean this is true of all all of the captains of the day and the leaders of the day but in this particular instance. He was peerless you know I'm sure he

had a confidant and a friend and someone he shared with but there was no one that he could look to for for the kind of peer to peer guidance. And in our in our world today many business leaders you know I know that there's a group of chilled adult children who inherited the business or work for their dads or moms. And there's a support group for them. But there is no support group for Shackleton. You know I think he did I think he did rely fairly heavily on Frank Frank. Oh I got you man. Yes I mean I think he was he was the one that probably if Shackleton did unburden himself it was that it was too wild and I suspect Wilde was probably more aware of the true extent of Shackleton's doubts and fears and everything else he did. I think I have a sort of confidant probably more so than Scott. And so you know is that he did rely upon. But you know your point your point too about the loneliness of leadership is really a profound one. And I've I've spent a lot of time doing some some one on one in small group executive coaching leadership coaching with people at the heads of big

organizations and they all tool one independently. Talk about that. You know you spend your life getting mentored on the way up and then you get to the corner office or whatever it is and there's no one else. And it's lonely. And that makes it harder. And yeah it's a great example I can see why the Shackleton story resonates so much you because it's it's that it's environmentally forced loneliness. Exactly. And in this terrible situation which you know as we've talked about it wasn't it was an anomaly. You know you could expect this to happen. It doesn't it doesn't make it doesn't make it any easier. But then it was able to succeed in a way that was amazing. And you know Stephanie talked earlier about the bankers not being so scared Well they're one of the reasons I think that a lot of the heads of the large financial institutions today are living in big sinkholes of doubters because they decided to walk away from the responsibility that came with the power that they had they walked away.

And that's just a fundamentally different question and moment than what Shackleton did not only on the ice in the insurance expedition but in the Nimrod expedition when he got a hundred miles to the north of the pole and said we don't quite have enough food. I might not be able to bring him back alive. I'm turning back. So here's someone who understood about responsibility and I think it had just been him he might have gone ahead. Yeah I think he did he did have an acute sense that there were there were other people with him at the time and depended on him. So do we have any Shackleton's in our presidential candidates both in our current president any Shackleton's among them. Deafening silence. We're looking desperately for one right I mean I don't think that we are looking for that kind of inspirational leadership and I think that you know there are those out there right who are sort of hoping for that from from President Obama and maybe feel a little bit disappointed now that he hasn't been able to deliver whether that's fair or unfair criticism and then I think on the Republican side in the primary right now it's a real it's a real quest for that kind of inspirational leadership. And do you think America in general that we're at this crisis we're at this chaos

and that's that's what we're looking for. I think we are as a historian I think we're we're in the we're in the early stages of what is for most of us unprecedented turbulence that is not going to end it is not going to write itself it's not going to take us back to some kind of you know static equilibrium or some more more more recognizably stable moment in those moments if we're really it's really the where the world is about increasing intensifying turmoil. We need leaders of every shape and size of every you know organization of small groups and large groups of all stripes and colors to find their backbone take responsibility and marry commitment to a big worthy serious mission with great suppleness diligence and commitment in terms of me. Well we could talk about this all day we're going to talk about it some more. We're talking about what today's leaders can learn from the explorer Ernest Shackleton. I've been joined by Nancy Kane and Stephanie Barshefsky professor Nancy Kane is a historian at the Harvard

Business School professor Stephanie protests he is a professor in the Department of History at Clemson University. Thank you both so much for joining us today. We continue this Shackleton conversation with Robert orchard the executive director of the office of the arts at arts Emerson and Emerson College. He's going to give us a preview of 69 degrees south or theatrical at adaptation of Shackleton's 1914 voyage. Stay with us. This is eighty nine point seven. WGBH. This program is made possible thanks to you. And Harvard Book Store and their author event series. You can find more details online at Harvard dot com.

Harvard bookstore proudly supporting writers Almanac weekdays at 750 on WGBH. And Gordon College presenting Gilbert and Sullivan HMS Pinafore Friday Jan. 20 7th and Saturday January 20 8th in the AJ Gordon Memorial Chapel. More on line at Gordon dot edu slash music events. And safety insurance partnered with safe roads alliance and in-control crash prevention training to help educate teens and drivers of all ages about safe driving practices. You can learn more at safety insurance dot com. In Baba is a hard scrabble neighborhood in Cairo with a million residents all crowded together during last year's revolution that began policing their own streets organizing trash collection things that the Mubarak regime never did. Now the people of him have begun to govern themselves. A corner of Cairo takes hold of its own future. Next time on the world. Coming up at 3 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH.

Hello I'm John Abbott president of WGBH the new year is always an exciting time. Especially when it coincides with an all new season of a show like Downton Abbey the British drama brought here to the states courtesy of WGBH his own Masterpiece Classic supporters keep an eye out for my letter about the next great series for masterpiece. And thanks for helping WGBH plan another incredible year. Of incredible progress. Great question. That is a great question and that's a great question. It's a great question. Rick great question on FRESH AIR. You'll hear unexpected questions and unexpected answers this afternoon at 2:00 here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Welcome back to the Kelly Crossley Show I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly Crossley joining me in the studio is Robert orchard the executive director of the office of the arts at arts Emerson and Emerson College. We're here to give you a little

preview of 69 degrees south theatrical take on Shackleton's 914 and Arctic expedition Robert orchard Welcome back how are you. Thank you. Great to be here. So this is a fascinating subject as we just talked about earlier in the hour with all sorts of human drama environmental drama you know almost like a chase scene if you will if in in the in the in the times of great boating and shipping ways. But what's fascinating about this piece is just the way that it's presented in the way the story is told within the context of what's happening in our world today talk a little bit about what it what it's about. Well first of all it it's it's layered with many many different aesthetic landscapes. Not only music both recorded and live and sound effects and projections and incredible lighting and the physical environment is very vivid.

But it's primarily a meditation. It's it's a dream like 65 minute. Landscape of the Shackleton journey and it allows the audience through a series of tabla to fill in the story with their own imagination it's not it doesn't explicate the story it imagines the story and it leaves the audience with a lot of space to enter into the emotional life of the story. So for instance Shackleton wrote that. That when he when he arrived he said that the icebergs hang upside down in the sky and the land appears as layers of silvery or golden clouds. The opening sequence of this piece establishes that landscape and then through a series of incredible puppets the Shackleton fifth team is represented by these marionettes that are about half human size and they're manipulated by

actors who are on five foot lucite stilts clothed in a garment that was inspired by a sargent painting. And they just slowly enter the landscape and are introduced and then the specific moments in their journey begin with these visual taboo. And it takes you through the performance really takes you through what happened to the ship and again it's not clear hears exactly what's happening but you get really enveloped into the storytelling in what I guess you haven't seen it but right now you know that it's both you see the ship arrive and and then become incased. You see the moment at which it breaks apart. You see the moment for instance when the flow that they're on cracks in half and you hear it to the visual and sound effects are synchronized in an incredible way. The music. It is recorded by the Kronos Quartet and there's a live band called Skeleton Key that's

also that's also playing. So it it's it's a it's a visual and aural feast. It does not tell the story in language that there's no dialogue there's no dialogue that's correct and it's the telling is in almost in an ancient yet modern way with all that we have today use. But in a storytelling device with puppets and no dialogue which I imagine bring it all together in a very compelling way. I think it allows the audience to make it a very personal journey of their own. And as I say it's just 65 minutes. But you then reflect on this this historic event and the heroism of it and the leadership that came from it. And you you're back and forth between the visual life of the piece and in finding connections to your feelings about the world today. Tell us about the environment the connection the environmental connection that that is made between the production and the Shackleton and all of it.

Well it hints at issues that such as global warming that may well have been evident in the arctic landscape that Shackleton and his men attempted to to cross. And there's a moment at the end. I don't want to give it away where a creature a creature is seen and the audience can make make you know make up their own mind about how how that particular figure projects into our current concerns about the environment. Now we talked a little bit about the audio experience. You have some great music and some great folks that are involved in the music portion of this. Well the first oh you have the band I was talking to you about skeleton key which was was a Eric Sankoh who composed the music and also who built the puppets

was a member of that band. And he composed the music. And in collaboration with the with a contemporary been a contemporary group the Kronos Quartet. Created the music and then they recorded the music. So you have the live band you have the music that Eric wrote and that was rendered by by the Kronos Quartet and then you have another whole layer of sound effects that that that part of this aural landscape as well. Now what attracted you to to this what what made you say 69 degrees south need to bring it. Boston has to have it has to be at Emerson. What was the story to you that really attracted you to it. Well I thought the the the underlying anchor of the piece being Shackleton and giving an audience a way into a group of artists imagination by by.

By knowing what we know about Shackleton his heroes and his leadership that that journey that 800 mile trek that he made to rescue his men and then having that as a kind of sort of narrative touch points if you will to then begin to appreciate the creative contributions and the artistic gestures of these incredible artists composers. You know obviously musicians actors puppets. I mean it's a blend of many many different kinds of ascetic forms. Talk a bit too about arts Emerson and what's happening I know that many folks not not in the know are sometimes like wow what's happening over to Emerson what's happening with the majestically or what's happening with all of the great performance that's that's coming what's what's happening there. Well there's a there's a lot happening and we're new so people don't necessarily know about us. We're just in the middle of our second season. Doing a piece now called sugar which

is about diabetes a wonderful piece by Robbie Macaulay also performed by Robbie Macaulay that closes this weekend. And we do films and music we did a hundred two films last year and we're doing 17 stage projects on three different stages that Emerson has restored. And we're bringing work to the city that I'm pretty sure likely would never be seen here before otherwise. So we have these four spaces relatively new spaces that are bringing work and adding to the cultural choices by by selecting work from all over the world that by virtue of the fact that we have these four new spaces would likely have never been seen before in Boston. And what's up what's coming up or are there some We're not I think there's another piece coming up soon that also ties back to historic moment in this case it's Hurricane Katrina and this is wonderful blues and hip hop sung through piece by a group called universes called the Merivale. And it it sort of traffic's over a

post-Katrina landscape in which a lot of said about leadership in that particular historic moment both at the time and following it. And and it relates to the most immediate issues in our contemporary culture not not the least of which is the whole Occupy movement with these four incredibly talented singers. And and and hip hop artists who who wrote the piece and who who will be performing it for just a week along with. A great physical environment as well with projections and and and commentary. We talked a little bit earlier about how 69 degrees south has the puppetry aspect of it. Do you think there's been a renaissance in the past 10 or 15 years in puppetry and the expansion of what it means to make a pop and I mean I think many people still think of the puppet on the hand of America and you know I agree

I when I was a kid I used to do puppet shows out of an old cardboard box that a refrigerator came in. And I you know I think you know I think puppetry has always been an amazing art form what I like about it now is that it seems to be entering more into the mainstream. The puppets have always been made in different ways and with different scales. But more and more artists are using puppetry to create these environments in which the audience is able to personify them very personally. Well we look forward to seeing it it's very exciting and great news and we look forward to having you back I've been talking with Robert orchard about an upcoming arts Emerson production 69 degrees south it's a theatrical adaptation about Shackleton's 1914 Antarctic voyage it will be at the Paramount mainstage February 7th through the 12th. To learn more please visit Art's Emerson dot org. Robert orchard is executive

director of the office of the arts and arts Emerson in Emerson College thank you so much for joining us. I'm Sue O'Connell I'm in for Kelly Crossley I'll be back tomorrow to talk about the controversial bio lab the Kelly Crossley Show is a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.