WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley This is the Cali Crossley Show. Today we're talking about youth violence and what it would take to put an end to it. Last month in a single week Boston experienced a rash of violence that was capped off by three fatal shootings and a deadly stabbing. This happened against the backdrop of the mad upin massacre trial. A bleak reminder of the kind of urban violence that has claimed so many young lives in an effort to change what some call a culture of violence. Reverend Jeffrey Brown brought faith leaders law enforcement officials and policy makers together for a summit. The idea behind the conference was to discuss how clergy and police can work together to put an end to crime and gang violence for good. This hour we'll talk to Reverend Brown about the solutions that came out of this summit. Up next redrawing the thin blue line. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying a grand jury in central Florida convenes next month to consider the case of an unarmed black teenager who was fatally

shot by a neighborhood watch captain in February. The death of Trayvon Martin is drawing public outcry. His family says the teen was a victim of racial profiling but Zimmerman says he shot the boy in self-defense. House Republicans are out with their budget proposal and they say it cuts five point three trillion dollars from the budget offered by President Obama last month. As NPR's Tamara Keith reports this budget is a political marker for the GOP in an election year. House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan says he expects this budget to be part of the conversation come November not just in congressional races but in the presidential contest. The plan calls for sweeping changes to Medicare and overhaul of the nation's tax code and significant spending cuts. Here's Ryan. Wisconsin Republicans are lifting the debt. Restoring Economic Freedom reforming the tax code so that we can help have our economy reach its full potential. The White House says this plan would give an average of a one hundred fifty thousand dollar tax cut to the wealthiest Americans and would pay for it by undermining Medicare. Tamara

Keith NPR News the Capitol. General John Allen says the U.S. mission in Afghanistan is on track to shift all security responsibilities to local forces. By the time American combat troops withdraw in 2014 the U.S. commander the Afghanistan war testified today on Capitol Hill as new questions arose about the US's effectiveness in Afghanistan where anti-Americanism has grown in the weeks since an American soldier allegedly massacred villagers and Qur'an were burned at a U.S. base. President Obama is accusing the Iranian government of raising an elec tronics curtain around its citizens in an effort to control what they see and hear. NPR's Scott Horsley reports the ministration is issuing new guidelines designed to make it easier for Iranians to communicate with the outside world in what's become an annual message marking the Iranian new year President Obama celebrated the cultural ties between our countries. Then accuse the Iranian government of trying to sever those ties by jamming broadcasts

and filtering the Internet an electronic curtain has fallen around Iraq. A barrier that stops the free flow of information and ideas into the country and denies the rest of the world the benefit of interacting with the Iranian people with so much to offer. The administration is encouraging U.S. businesses to breach that curtain by offering software and communication tools to the Iranian people. Scott Horsley NPR News the White House. U.S. stocks trading lower. At last check Dow was down 68 points more than half a percent at thirteen thousand one hundred seventy one in trading of one billion shares Nasdaq down more than half a percent of three thousand sixty S&P 500 down six points at 14 03. This is NPR News. From the WGBH radio newsroom in Boston I'm Judy you will with these local stories we're following. Jury deliberations have resumed in the murder trial of two men charged with shooting four people to death following an armed robbery and mad upin in 2010 Suffolk Superior Court Judge Christine McAvoy ordered the jury to try to break a deadlock on

nine of the 19 counts against Edward Washington and Dwayne Moore. Judge McEvoy instructed jurors that it is in the best interests of justice for them to reach a verdict on every charge. The murders stunned the city as a young mother and her 2 year old son were among the dead. The final two members have been named to the state's five person casino gambling commission. They are retired Appeals Court Judge James McHugh and Springfields business development administrator Bruce Stebbins McKeown Stephens were chosen by Governor Patrick Attorney General Martha Coakley and state treasurer Steven Grossman. The panel will award up to three licenses for resort casinos and 1 slots parlor license a task force is calling for an overhaul of the state's tax system to eliminate breaks that cost the state 26 billion dollars in revenue each year. The tax expenditure Commission wants the governor and state lawmakers to reduce the number and amount of tax exemptions that the state allows. But supporters of tax breaks argue they can attract businesses encourage

expansion and create jobs. Support for NPR comes from the mosaic foundation of Rita and Peter Hayden based in Ann Arbor honoring the passion of NPR journalists all around the world whose stories take us there every day. Boston sports the Celtics take on the Bucs in Milwaukee Thursday night. They'll do it without Jermaine O'Neal. He'll have surgery on his left wrist and missed the rest of the season. Sunshine this afternoon highs in the 70s clear skies overnight lows in the 50s. Clouds and sun tomorrow highs again in the 70s and Thursday highs in the 80s. Right now it's 59 in Boston I'm Judy you'll you'll find more news at WGBH news dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley what does it take to put an end to inner city violence. That's the question we're exploring today with some around the corner cities across America are preparing to handle an uptick in crime. That was a focus of a summit last week. The initiative is called recap rebuilding

every city around peace. Clergy law enforcement officers and policy makers join from all parts of the United States to talk about the best way to reduce crime. Joining me to talk about what came out of the summit is Reverend Jeffrey Brown. He's the executive director of recapped and the co-founder and executive director of the Boston Ten Point Coalition. Reverend Brown Welcome back. R. Kelly how are you. Fine. So this was an idea that you had for some time and started working on it last year as you reached out to the people the attendees not the speakers to come to talk about these issues. What was it that was extremely motivational for all of you to gather in one place and to begin to discuss this. I think it's the idea of the community and the law enforcement community the individual cities coming together to work to find ways to work together around issues that particularly attract. The city can't we had

25 cities represented and we had 11 police executives from 11 cities should police executives from above the city and many of them bringing clergy that they are already beginning to work with because they're looking for ways in which they could really in some ways move forward. You know fresh new ideas around anti-violence strategies and work more closely with the community in order to make this happen. Now I think a lot of people may not be aware that there's a lot of documentation and discussion in the public square about the fact that violent crime has actually gone down except for the inner city. Can you explain why and for the purpose of this conversation what do we mean by inner city but when. We talk about inner cities we're talking about communities of color. You know in Boston we have Roxbury mad upin Dorchester all along the blues all have quarter. So

nationally violent crime has gone down. Part 1 crimes have gone down. But when we look at those in his city numbers they are either at stagnated level or in some cases they have risen and it's because of that that you had police executives and clergy particularly interested in finding ways in which they could in a new and fresh way address these issues. So why what what what what is the reason why. You know in any given geographical area look at Boston and we're pretty tight packed tight together so it's not like you know you go many many miles and there you are in med upin or Dorchester that's pretty close. And they get There's a difference in the statistics. Absolutely I think. You know when we talk about in a cities and a community of colors we are always lagging behind in terms of indicators that indicate the health of a city. So when you talk about economics you know in

Boston you have unemployment in the you know moving into the single digits it's still in the double digits. In the end cities in some cases upwards to 20 25 percent. And you know when we talk about violence you have those very same indicators when we talk about the educational system the educational structures and also the teaching staff. We always seem to have probably more problems in DNS today than we do in other parts of the city. And so because of those lagging indicators it's no question that violence is also among the things that lag behind in terms of real. So you've outlined all the as you say these lagging factors that are there very clear cut. You've also called the violence that's happening in the inner city a culture of violence. Now I have to say that's an expression that many have rejected because they feel that is suggests that there is some normative behavior happening there and that's they

disagree with that. But so why do you use that expression and what do you mean by it. I use the expression culture of violence because they use them to use that as an expression of their reality. You know many kids that I work with in this city believe that they are living and existing and time in which violence dominates the public discourse popular culture you know all the indicators that expressed youth life. When I was growing up in high school. For example we we had one funeral that we attended with a young man young woman who actually died in an automobile accident. And in my entire high school career I only went to one funeral. Nowadays you have young people and then one third grade year will be looking forward

to going to at least a dozen funerals between ninth grade and 15 years of people with in their neighborhood that have been killed by violence. And when you have young people going to school being afraid walking to school being in the school. What happens after school. You have this culture of violence of this sort. So what can recap do begin to do in a way that perhaps other community organizations haven't been able to do. And I note that we're talking about clergy here that's what you're representing with the Ten Point Coalition So this is a this is a coming together of law enforcement and policy makers and clergy so that's a specific group of community organizers and I'm wondering if you see your role differently or how you can begin to approach this in a way that is more effective than other community organizations have done in the past.

Well Kelly you know I've always been an advocate for the faith factor in the in the entire anti-violence movement. I think it's very important that communities of faith become actively involved in working with in a given city or a given area to help reduce and eliminate Baila in their community. I don't think it's just a law enforcement thing. I don't think it's just something that should be handled by the city but all factors of a city need to be involved. And currently police community relations r r r r not good nationally and you have a recognition on the part of law enforcement officials that they can. How to wrest themselves out of the situation of violence. And you also have a realization on the part of many clergy that you know prayer and preaching alone will not solve the issue. They need to

become more active and we need to work together in this equation. What kind of relationship or can you describe some of the relationships you may have with kids in your neighborhood given what you've just said. Can arrest your way out of it came pray your way out of it but down on the ground which is where the Ten Point Coalition has been certainly. Describe how you are interacting normally. Right. So when we when we think about how churches can become more active. What I mean is that they need to be active at the street level. In other words their church mission ought to have as a part of their emphasis. Intentional work working with those youth who are at highest risk regardless of how many kids you may have in your church it's those you who have Has Chris Gardner are the ones that are usually being ignored by everything but the law enforcement community. Or you know in some cases social service communities

and they're the ones that need the most attention. They also have the attention of the majority of youth out in the community. And so if you have churches becoming more involved working with those youth who are involved in gangs or ball with drugs etc. you get the attention of the youth in general in your community because youth that are looking for people who will be helpful in reducing the violence in the community and churches are generally seen as you know. Structures and communities that divorce themselves generally from what happened out on the street. But what we need is an activist church we need a church that will become more involved and find creative ways in order to connect with you. Give me an example of the kind of conversation you may have and specifically what does that look like when you say involved. Get to know these these kids who are in gangs who are perhaps looking for a way out or or an alternative to the lifestyle they live.

And absolutely I think a lot of it has to do with getting over whatever myth that you may have about the violence of fear that you may have about violence because when I talk to a lot of church groups and I say what you have to get out in the street like you being out there and I'm like absolutely and there's a lot of fear around doing that. But what once a person starts doing like for example a commune. He walked It's one of the things that we advocate once they start doing that what they come to understand is that the youth that are out there are actually looking for connections to looking for people to help them. They're looking for guidance and direction. And so a lot of mist that we have about youth on the street gets quickly dispelled once you become active and build relationships with those very same conversations do not have to be complex formulaic. It's the kind of conversation that people have when they seek to get to know a person and to build a

relationship with a person. When I tell a lot of pastors is that you don't know your community after 9 p.m. but there are a lot of people out on the street who know exactly what's going on. You need to be educated. Going out there and not preaching but listening and being able to build relationships with you is the most effective way in order to get to understand what's going on out there and also to work with them to find creative ways in which you can build a ministry that would be effective for them. I guess what I was interested in is just exactly how does that conversation take place. Because you know I'm thinking of the people that you know are inside the church or they may not be actually the ones going out on the street but the let's say the ones that who have volunteered to be a part of a program to get to know these kids I mean I don't even know how you begin. And what are you saying I know you say it's a normal conversation but what are you saying this is a kid who's likely a

gang member or maybe maybe on his way to commit violence or maybe has. How do you make that bridge. Some of the training that we do we often tell people that you know don't expect you know grand and in-depth conversation. You know at first pass something that never really happened. You know you have a lot of people who will be watching you as you're out there walking the community in the pacific time and you know and you also be watching them. But but they'll come up. Point in time where people will recognize your consistency in doing this work and they will approach you in all the work that I have done and walk in the street. Not just in Boston but in the 19 cities that I have been working in the past five years. You have a conversation that would just start off with a hello and how you doing it which is me. And then you tell them why you're out there I'm out here because I'm trying to find ways to understand what's going on out here and

see how we can be helpful and people will start talking to you. I always have passes who are amazed at how open folks can become once they realize that you're out there to do something to them. But you doing. You want to do something you know in a positive way. All right well that's one of the conversations that I've read one of the questions I want to ask him when we come back is you know how does conversation really make a check. Because I think what you've just said is very interesting but I'm I'm imagining people listening going Alright well it's a great conversation. But has that stopped violence. And to be continued We're talking about urban violence and crime and how important it is for law enforcement the clergy and community leaders to work together and in a few minutes we'll be joined by Christine Cole executive director of the program in Criminal Justice Policy and Management Harvard Kennedy School. We'll also be joined by Deputy Superintendent Randall halted. He's been with the Boston Police Department for 34 years and he says policing has sure changed since his

days as a rookie. You're listening to eighty nine point seven. WGBH Boston Public Radio. This program is made possible thanks to you. And busy New Bedford March 23rd Tao the way of the drum with power an explosive percussion and spectacle. Tao is the fusion of Tycho drumming and athleticism. More information at Therion dot org. And Ellis insurance offering personal and business insurance plus financial planning and their online insurance tuneup identifying timely and relevant Risk Management Solutions. Exceptional service intelligent insurance Ellice insurance dot com. And Hannaford in Dumas commercial printers offset and digital printing finishing and mailing from one source you can find more information at Hanaford dimiss dot com or by calling 8 6 6. Quote HD. On the next FRESH AIR.

Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid who wrote the bestseller Taliban before 9/11 talked with us about his new book Pakistan on the Brink The Future of America Pakistan and Afghanistan. Join us this afternoon at 2:00 here on eighty nine point seven. Seven out of every ten dollars spent on daily operations here at eighty nine point seven WGBH come directly from listener support and thousands of WGBH supporters and doubled the impact of their financial contributions by having them matched dollar for dollar by their employers to find out if your employer will join you in supporting WGBH radio and television. Visit WGBH dot org slash matching gifts. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just tuning in we're talking about what it takes to

end inner city violence. Last week clergy law enforcement officials and policy makers joined in Washington D.C. to discuss how everyone can work together to help reduce crime. My guest Reverend JEFFREY BROWN And Christine Cole are both here. We're both there rather. Reverend JEFFREY BROWN He's the co-founder and executive director of the Boston 10 Point Coalition. And Christine Cole is the executive director of the program in Criminal Justice Policy and Management at the Harvard Kennedy School and they're both here too. Kristin co welcome. Thank you very much. KELLY It's nice to be here and I thank you for the invitation. Sure. Let me I get Reverend Brown to start us off and then I'll come to you because. How do you mean bad before we ended the first segment. You're talking about these conversations that you have with the young man who could in fact be perpetrators of violence and that that's a beginning way of gaining entre and helping to reduce the violent crime and I think that's a question that a lot of

people on the outside ask themselves is how does conversation help stop violence and could you answer that first for me. Well the conversation to begin to build relationships and it's the relationship building that helps to stop the violence. Once you start to get to know who you are particularly you that you talk to. You get to understand you know their situation their family situation they come out of it they're current you know plight and you can begin to find ways in which you can be helpful. Boston 10 Point Coalition for years advocated for you know jobs jobs training or getting folks back into school to get their GED t. and to get them to be productive sit. But it just can't do it without getting to know that person understanding where they're coming from. A lot of times it's the anonymity that deters folks from actually

reaching out because you have a lot of people who want to do that but because they don't know that person you know they won't be able to do it but then on the other hand it's also their anonymity that has a young person reluctant to reach out to something that you break that down. You have a chance to build up. Kristin Cole would you weigh in on that as well. Sure. I think Jeff's right. It's about relationships and understanding. And one of you know Jeff said before the break about the the actual predictability of young people these days in funeral attendance I mean that speaks to the violence that surrounds them every day. And I think that they themselves would say they don't like the violence when you get them one on one and we've heard stories from Jeff or the police or other community workers who say that very thing. So for for Geoff and other people from the faith based communities. One of the things that I think is different about their perspective is they have the standing to

to be able to provide support to the individual young people who are involved in violence and other members of the community to take a hard stand and say this is wrong the behavior is wrong. It's not. You might not like the tactics of the police if you're a young person. But what the police are trying to do is make a safe place. And the clergy being aligned with the police on that goal that value that we need to stop the violence the clergy have the relationship to be able to convey that to people who live in these neighborhoods including the young people who are disproportionately involved in the violence so I couldn't agree with him more this is about relationship understanding and developing trust. Christine as I said you were at the summit in facilitating certain panels there but. Before I ask you about the specific work that you did in D.C. at the at the summit I'm curious to know if you can answer the question as so many people wonder about and what

is what causes the persistency of violence in these communities are there or is there something we should know or don't know what don't we understand about the persistency. I think it's an age old question and I think people have been wrestling with why why for many many years and and during a period of time we talked about the violence being caused by poverty or poverty being caused by violence. I think there's lots of explanations and people fall into different schools of thought about what they are and and in some ways. I try and take the posture that the that that reducing it is far more important than understanding its genesis right. The fact is and again I heard Jeff say this before the break that we've there's a culture of violence that has developed. You might hear some people say it's the media obviously not this show and not this this outlet but that there are all kinds

of influences on young people but the predictability of these funerals the predictability of the violence almost fuels more and more. Jeff talked about young people who are afraid to walk to school so what do they do. They arm up they gang up they carry arms so that they can protect themselves. It just doesn't always work that way there is likely to become victims of violence as they are perpetrators of violence. When you're living and acting in a place where it surrounds you. The We've also had over the course of time sort of models or structures where it wasn't cool to report on people who were going to be violent or had been violent that creates a culture where people are protecting each other and we have to make sure that the clergy doesn't do that. Right we can't let anybody in the community protect somebody or insulate somebody for commission of violent crimes. Well you know you brought that up and I while you all were meeting the

mad upin massacre trial was going on here in Boston and I was just struck by the testimony of Marcus Hurd who was a survivor of that four person shooting and he was paralyzed from the neck down. But his quote from the wheelchair I live by the code I die by the code. And you're supposed to take what happens whatever comes your way he says. And that's it. So it's hard to imagine him having a conversation crossing a barrier to have a conversation with either clergy or law enforcement coming from that perspective. Right I can I can understand your cynicism. When you when you hear those kinds of words Jeff maybe remember maybe remember who it was that said last week in D.C. told the story about a young man who was moaning of the loss of his friend and mentor at 21 years old and said Well at least he had a full life. Wow 21 who of us would say that 21 is a full life. But when when your friends are

dying young. And that is nearly old age for some members of the gang community. That's a tragic loss to our whole society. It's a loss of young men to the community of color. It's a loss of family it's a loss of structure. And Mary Lou Leary who's the acting director of the Office of Justice Programs in Washington D.C. part of the Federal Department of Justice said that we need collective will to achieve violence reduction and creates positive outcomes. And I think that's what Jeff and Reverend Brown I should say is working hard to instill is that for years I think that the clergy did their work and the police did their work and the prosecutors did their work and everybody was working as hard as they could but it was evidently holding back the notion right everybody was working separately and with the partnership. We have seen more positive results than we have

in places that don't have this community based partnership now to that point. If you were facilitating discussions at the summit and again this is about Reverend Brown's initiative we kept rebuilding every city around peace. You did a panel with police officers and a panel with clergy and would you share the differences that came out in terms of perspective on that I thought that was extremely interesting. It actually it might be easier to share the similarities. OK. And I'd love for Jeff to weigh in on this. Thank you. They they talked about similar goals. They talked about violence reduction. They talked about building trust. They talked about increasing credibility between the young people and the police officers. They talked about addressing the drivers of violence both panels talked about these things. You know I have a couple of quotes that I think were just brilliant There was a pastor from. From Sacramento California who said this isn't about

conversion. This is about conversation. So while these may be faith leaders they're very focused on building community across faith across across boundaries that it's about this goal of reducing violence both the police and the clergy agree that by working together results were improved. But go ahead Deborah in Brazil I would have to agree with that I mean what struck me was the chief Baltimore Bielefeld when he talked about the work that he was doing with clergy and how important it was for him to convey this message of building community. They talked about Baltimore the city of 600. And I believe it was one year they had something like 100000 or a hundred and ten thousand arrests that came over the exam. Christine but it was not a founding member.

You know when you think about it of a city of 600000 residents and the number of arrests that they had in one year and then that was the year that he took over as chief he says you can't build a community with those kinds of numbers. I've got to get these numbers driven down. And he made a concerted effort to do that and partnered with the faith community in part in order to make that happen and it's those kinds of examples that sort of political ray that the spent and you know caused all of us there even though we were more or less the converted if you will. We really understood that building partnerships is financial. If we're going to be able to begin to end the error of fact. I couldn't agree more and Reverend Brown knows that I'm a geek and I wrote these things down. Commissioner Bealefeld told us that in 2011 there were 52000 arrests and he of adult adult offenders and he was so pleased because that was more than a 50 percent

reduction from 2005 the year he took over they had one hundred eight thousand adult arrests with a population just slightly larger than Boston's a 600 40000 people. What he said though is you can't. And Reverend Brown said it you can't build community with those numbers of arrests because there's a recognition that if you're arresting that many people you can't help but bring discontent and a lack of trust and a lack of cooperative spirit. And he talked about working together and he believes that that partnership is what changed the dynamic and the culture if you will of violence on the line from his beat is deputy superintendent Randall Hall said he's been with the Boston Police Department for 34 years deputy. Thank you. You've heard a little bit of what we've been discussing here about the recap summit and I know that you were there I'm interested first if you could just share with us about the differences in policing because as we talk about building

community a lot of it really rests with the core relationship between law enforcement officers and and the kids in the community or the young people in the community community working with the clergy cell from your time as a police officer. How has policing changed. Looking at that as an issue. Well when I came on as well you know I go cry I was mostly I mean it was a kind of situation where you had marijuana being sold out of houses with four or five front doors and you go into his house and you can reason why be looked at because people were calling up. Think there's a lot of traffic on my street. Not necessarily saying why do a lot of traffic on the street. But going there instead in the observations in cries of PCM stop at a certain location and finding out what was going on. I didn't go in you get the door. I mean there's one house that we had that was going into a chest and we use a tow truck to pull the front door off with that pop that first of all apartment and we totally tore it off we had it waiting weighed 200

pounds because the back of that globe was lined with lead go to anybody which tried to shoot through the door and nobody would get it. But then and then going back in the in the early early to mid 80s sections of Roxbury was when the crack epidemic was really prevalent and you had blocks of houses that would have lookouts on the roof with walkie talkies. The warning when we came into the area and they were the deceased you know that operation or to the other side of it as well getting up there and seeing the rival gangs were going to come in try to set up shop in that neighborhood and then that's when the gun violence will be reached reached a crescendo and. Stay here now with me and then look at the different the mind demos and arrest arrest the arrest because it was a quality of life issue at that time. I mean you have people that are living in the neighborhood that of these individuals are coming into the neighborhood.

They don't live there getting up shopping at backyard and just they're living in fear. I mean and but at this point I now fast forward a few years years now I was a crack epidemic a slowdown is not a problem it's not as widespread as it was it's still there but it wasn't a hot and heavy but it competition and so now we've found that the individual that we're dealing with OUT IN THE STREET It's a small number anywhere from one to two percent of the same people who wouldn't do and doing the crimes on a repeated basis over and over and over again. Now what I find that if we change the format and a proactive approach. There's been no the majority of criminal activities carried out by the same 1 2 percent of individuals. While we're on patrol we stop and we speak to them. Now probably would like to stop to speak to and when they're alone and the reason why we do it when you're alone we don't create an adversarial situation. When you stop

women in front of their buddies or one of the boys today cruel they have the crease the atmosphere they get a grandstand to get hacked off right. But it but when you have one on one you be surprised built off you. I mean you know talk you dislike me and even then it's not a question of you know put in a rasping kind of thing it was a question of stopping and was in a way what's up you know that kind of mode what's going on. What are you doing. And they get to know what we get to know that this suppression of this is what they call community policing what you're describing him exactly 100 percent and that's that is and that that's the core of it. I mean between police and team policing we have I have well I finally met the guys that I'm dealing with the whole community more people are going to work well together. I mean you have a sergeant and and several others that they were together as a group and not only they're good at what they do is in force in the law but they're also good in your ability not only to be able to talk to people but the

list. That's the main thing. Listen you can talk to person so you're blue in the face but until you get the feedback from them than listening to the feedback you're getting then you notice you'll be able to do it to be making any kind of progress. Now these guys when they're out would be I mean you policing. Yeah I buy they find they work by just BP speak up situation communication to you for trust. People insist that those are the three things they're going to work that they're going to be things they're going to make me to be seen we're going to be able to talk to people by talking to people you're going to build that trust and to maintain that trust and to maintain that communication you have to be consistent with what you deal with how you deal with people. That's my guest Deputy Superintendent Randall Halstead. What you said the deputy superintendent is something that I know all of you have to have really articulated in one kind of way or another and we found a piece from the HBO series The Wire which I think is really illustrative of the point that you're making and that the building of

relationships and the communication. So here this is a clip from the HBO series The Wire and in this scene Baltimore residents are at a community meeting headed by one of their precincts. Police officers. Have been living in this part of the city my whole life and I can tell you son we want any age when we were kids and those are hard but what you talk about them they just try and get. You know different from what we were. Cherishing growing a little was all. The one thing I do miss about my neighborhood I'm going to maybe I came up in. See we knew the police see when a white police officer our house was on his beak and his foot deep and he would be sitting out talking my mother gave me everything. And I just did not want to just talk. And I'm telling you this man's name was Frazier only every you know he even knew my grandmother's name. You know let's move on to the tip line information sometimes maybe I'm real sorry but I was not finished with this it was tell you something

I did not see that face to face. Police in a long while and a very long one. Deputy Superintendent Randall How important is that face to face policing. Then tell me that's what build that's what built the core of the whole aspect of what Reverend Brown you're going to line you did an excellent job by the way with that competition Christine was fantastic you know there Annette what he's doing this is this is the core of what he's talking about. You have to have that or you have to have their communication you have to build that report because once you have people who want to talk you know talk to you and trust you they're going to call when it be something going on in their neighborhood and they're going to be able to give you information that you can correct in not being a snitch taking care of your backyard you're taking care of the fact that with everything. Well but everything goes well the lack of a better word hell in a handbasket. We were the ones are going to be they're going to because. They're going to help you. Going to help solve your problem and your two little ones you can depend on.

Not to people get you afraid to talk to because they're the ones I mean it's basically it's bullying taken from the classroom and you putting it into a neighborhood and I think back to what it is a bully and if you can talk to us and get to know where you are. I mean this is our job just what we do and we're very good at what we do. We're only asking that people back as well and help us help them. All right we're going to put a pause in the conversation that was deputy superintendent Randall Halstead who is patrolling the streets today as he speaks. We're talking about community policing about what it takes from the clergy to the cops to the community to put an end to inner city violence. You're listening to WGBH Boston Public Radio. This program is on WGBH thanks to you. And Bank of America lending and investing to help strengthen local communities and support the people who call

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Coming up at 3 o'clock here at eighty nine point seven WGBH. When you sign on as a WGBH sustainer you break down your gift of support into monthly installments that automatically renew when WGBH can count on your support. That means you hear fewer fundraisers so even though WGBH is in the middle of a very important fundraising campaign this program is coming to you today. Fundraiser free fundraiser free sounds good to you sign on a sustainer online at WGBH dot org. Great question. That is a great question and that's a great question. It's a great question. Rick great question on fresh air you'll hear unexpected questions. Unexpected answers this afternoon at 2:00 here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Welcome back I'm Kelly Crossley we're talking about inner city crime gang violence and how cops and clergy and the community can work together to put an end to what has long troubled

our cities. I'm joined by Reverend JEFFREY BROWN co-founder and executive director of the Boston Ten Point Coalition. Christine Cole executive director of the program in Criminal Justice Policy and Management at the Harvard Kennedy School and Boston deputy superintendent Randall hall step Kristin call a cola question. Are there communities because you've looked at this issue globally where this kind of vile inner city communities just is not happening or the best one can hope for at these days and times. Severe reduction would be great but I'm just wondering is there is there a model somewhere where we've seen it just go away. I don't I'm sad to say I don't think we have a model of a community where there is no violence. Unfortunately right. I think that we have lots of places to look at where there have been dramatic improvements dramatic and one of my colleagues former colleague at

Harvard now at Rutgers. Anthony Braga has done some research and studied where there's been a partnership between clergy and police on violence reduction strategies. And I think I think in a leaven out of 12 places and in that 12 pay place there was just simply a lack of data because it was a new initiative. We've seen we've seen on average probably 25 to 50 percent reductions in violence when when the community and I mean police clergy and other community members including congregants not simply the pastors but people in the faith community. Are working together and the way I said earlier a concerted effort to reduce violence we've seen those changes. I've talked to your colleague Anthony Brock about the so-called Boston Miracle. You know that which is always touted when these when we have these conversations about it happened here and then all of a sudden it's Or it seem to some come back with a vengeance the violence

that had seemed to be reduced though many people have said to me including brother there were a number of factors contributing to the quote Boston Miracle. So there is some reality there that it can happen it's just some people think it's so persistent that you know why bother because you're never going to get it down to anything that makes sense at any level. I bet this is true for my my colleagues that are with us today but if if that's the attitude then I'm just not going to get out of bed in the morning. Not only because this is a work the kind of work in which I deeply believe but I feel like we have a moral responsibility to not throw in the towel. Young particularly young men of color are not only dying but are being incarcerated at rates that are not seen anyplace else in the world in our cities and we've got to do something about that and the research that Anthony has assembled he's assembled research from all these cities he did not conduct

each of these studies is demonstrating that by working together we can make a difference in both the levels of violence and the returns to prison. And that is similarly important because it's not only the number of young people that are being killed but the number of people that are lost to our community to our societies by either incarceration or or intensive probation or parole supervision. It's a it's a similar tragedy I think. Yes and then I'd have to say amen to what Christine. I think it's so important for the faith community to recognize that it's their it's their act of faith that violence can be Vaduz can be a sustaining factor in a partnership. You know that they will not give up their motivation you know comes not from statistics or or from economics but it comes from a place that would be self-sustaining which would be that their faith. I mean I've been

at this for about 20 years now and I was there during the so-called boss the miracle I was also there when the violence came back would have been. And then I was also there you know as we came back together again and worked hard with Deputy Superintendent to bring the violence you know back down. But we're also moving forward because we don't believe that this era of violence should move forever. I mean it should in the end what we should be working for is ending the era of violence in our communities and I really believe. Faith communities are well-positioned to keep that slain. Reverend Brown many of you have mentioned in your own way that part and parcel of this is a will so you can have a moral will to do that. Christine can have a policy will to do that and the deputy superintendent has made clear this is our job this is what we do. But you operate within the context of a

political will that has to be articulated. And I noticed that very interestingly on your summit schedule there was a whole panel on how do you pay for it and how do you get people to sign on to support you to pay for it so I wanted you to address that I thought it was innovated to have a panel about paying for it because that's a that's a big issue. No no absolutely particularly in this time of fiscal austerity. I mean you have a lot of folks who are looking for ways in which they can sustain this you know financially. I see. The partnership piece is important because it is when you build partnerships you're also building a more cost effective way of doing. That's where our panelists talk about ways in which you can not only find ways in which you can work with foundations and because you have many foundations who are beginning to turn their

funds towards violence reduction but also how to build that political will. Michael McBride who is a pastor in California is also the head of Pico which is a an activist group of churches who through their organizing church organ I think Bill the political will in order to see you know violence production in various communities. So it was a real lesson in understanding you know how to position a grant as you write it and then also how to work with mayors and city council and. Representative state senators in order to you know have policy prescriptions to some of the issues about community. Deputy Superintendent Randall Halston. Obviously you're

converted a believer in community policing. How widespread I know that Ed Davis the Boston Police Chief Ed Davis that was his focus in Springfield before he came to Boston and. And that's a big focus in Boston itself but you know is this is this just generally thought to be the way to go. Are you one of the lone voices in the wind I guess is what I'm asking. You know I mean you know this is what we are geared to do. I mean you're going to have. The community policing we get to go out to build the foundation with the people in the city of Boston. I mean even though we're still out there and we're talking and we're building these these relationships and building this trust we're still police officers we're still going to force the law no matter that that's the that's the bottom line. Everybody who I've talked to everybody who works in my station I have what station they deal with of Roxbury got mad and I had to adjust they have South Boston

everybody that works in the district all but we in the community policing approach. OK everybody who works who works in the stations have one had basically a one on one of the ship with certain individuals in addition we cover it the way to go it. I would say it makes our job easier but it makes our job more. Go in and get your problem with what's going on in the neighborhoods now. Thank you. Christine Cole given that and Davis was did his work in Lowell before he came to the Boston Police Department. Where is bust and then in this if you look across the country in terms of it's moving in the direction of trying to address violence in this community policing way. Detective Halsted as DEP superintendent Austin has said this is the way to go. So that Boston is signed off but as we look around the country how we compare to other cities is this Are we on

point in front behind where we're really right. I think that's a great question Kelly one of the things that's pretty sticky about community policing is it looks different and feels different in different parts of the country different parts of the world maybe even and different parts of a city. I think that and should it be different in different parts of the city perhaps. Let's get back to that. Yeah I think that may be true. Yes. The I think Boston is on the forefront and has long been on the forefront of community policing. And Commissioner Davis was a leader in community policing in his first chief job and Lowell brought community policing there. And you know I had asked the superintendent what he thought but in my view from an outsider I'm not in the Boston Police obviously seems to have ramped it up to a new level in modern day I'll say. I think that they are they're a leader in forging these partnerships I think they're a leader in

creativity and I think Boston is a leader and I believe that this is some of the jurisdiction in which the superintendent oversees the Boston street safe safe street teams where we've got teams of people who are focused on on doing the walking around and talking with people and identifying you know at risk people and you know or known troublemakers or whatever for problem location yes or no. Consistent with what both the superintendent said and Reverend Brown said. It's about reducing anonymity and that story that could be paid from the wire right the woman talked about the officer talk to members of her family with a regular basis they knew what people were up to. And I think we're seeing a return to that. I see it in other parts of the country as well and I think it makes a difference and it's it's not only that reducing anonymity but it's increasing trust. It's breaking down barriers. The story that the superintendent told when he first came on the job sounded as if

the police were an occupying force in a neighborhood and at the moment and we've all seen that I seen that in the neighborhoods where we've worked or lived. And there's always a time for that hard nosed police activity. But it's not the norm. It's not what you see. And I think we as a society have come to realize that that's not what's necessary to do enforcement. Last word from you Reverend Brown. We're heading toward the summer recapped is now in place you've you've met. What do you think Obama. Well I mean I'm very hopeful for the summer for at least the communities that attended the summit. As I said earlier 25 cities represented. They have all asked for the follow up part of what we're doing at recap is that we're providing internet resources for the clergy and for the law enforcement officials in their particular communities ways of which

we can help build a conduit of ministers in their community to do this kind of work. And I'm very hopeful because a lot of folks are responding to to the requests. And and then there are other. They're spreading the word. There are other cities who have been calling in saying you know we weren't able to make it but you know is there anything that we can take from this. Is there a way in which you can come to my community. And so I'm very hopeful because what's happened. People are beginning to come to us. If we're going to be able to stop. All right well we'll cross our fingers and hope for the best heading into the summer. It's not so such a great time but I'm hoping that we will see something different this summer. Thank you so much all of you for talking to me we've been talking about how to reduce crime and violence by way of community policing. I've been speaking with Reverend JEFFREY BROWN You just heard him co-founder and executive director of the Boston Ten Point Coalition and of recap a new

initiative. Kristine Cole executive director of the program in Criminal Justice Policy and Management at the Harvard Kennedy School and Deputy Superintendent Randall homestead. Thanks to all of you thank you thank you. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter and become a fan of the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook where a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.