WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm callin Crossley This is the Cali Crossley Show. Last week city officials community activists and Roxbury residents gathered for a groundbreaking in Dudley Square to inaugurate a multimillion dollar redevelopment. The project includes a new headquarters for the Boston school department public parks and community spaces for art. The area will include retail spaces that will ideally be brimming with restaurants and shops. The most enthusiastic supporters of this overall say this will rejuvenate the entire area by bringing in jobs reducing crime becoming a place where families will move to raise their kids. Others say not so fast. This looks like the latest wave of gentrification hitting the city. From there we meet Nate Swain. He's on a mission to transform the blight of Boston's ugly blank walls. One mural at a time. Up next brushing up Boston. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying gas prices

are still rising they're also still feeling election year rhetoric over who's to blame. President Obama is dismissing calls by the GOP presidential candidates for a massive increase in oil drilling to help bring down high gasoline prices. NPR's Greg Wyndham reports Mr. Obama speaking at Prince George's County Community College in Maryland today said the U.S. is producing more oil today than at any time in the past eight years. The president says the number of operating oil rigs in the U.S. has quadrupled during his administration. Up to a record high. But he says more drilling cannot satisfy the nation's energy needs because the U.S. uses more than 20 percent of the world's oil but has only 2 percent of the world's known oil reserves. We will not fully be in control of our energy future. If our strategy is only to drill for the 2 percent but we still have to buy the 20 percent the president says the US needs instead to develop other sources of energy and the technology to reduce energy usage. Greg Wyndham NPR News Washington.

President Obama continues to draw criticism from the GOP for denying his State Department permit for the Keystone excell pipeline to run from Canada to the U.S. Gulf Coast out of environmental concerns. Well earlier this week former President George W. Bush was reported saying the pipeline was a no brainer for creating jobs and reviving the economy. He made the remarks at an American fuel and petrochemical manufacturers conference. The Taliban are refusing to hold peace talks with the U.S. over the war in Afghanistan saying they don't want the Afghan government included in the process. This after recent series of violence blamed on U.S. troops including allegations that a soldier gunned down Afghan villagers in cold blood last weekend. That soldier's been flown to Kuwait and the Afghan people are angry. But NPR's Ahmed Shah reports the Pentagon says the U.S. does not have appropriate detention facilities in Afghanistan. An Afghan member of parliament from Kandahar who is part of the eight member delegation sent by President Karzai to the site of the massacre says he was outraged that the U.S. soldier

was transferred out of Afghanistan. He says the Americans have cited in agreements with Afghanistan from a couple of years ago in which U.S. soldiers accused of crimes would not be tried in Afghanistan. The Afghan delegation says they have called on President Karzai not to sign a strategic partnership with the U.S. unless the ques soldier is brought back to Afghanistan for a public trial. NPR News Kabul. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta sought to defuse tensions during his visit to Afghanistan this week. Afghan President Hamid Karzai says he told Panetta that he wants Afghan forces to take the lead in security next year instead of in 2014. At last check on Wall Street the Dow is up 44 points to thirteen thousand two hundred thirty eight. You're listening to NPR News. And from the WGBH radio newsroom in Boston I'm Christina Quinn with the local stories we're following. About 4000 and star customers are still without power in Boston and the utility spokesman Mike Doran says the timeline of the restoration process has been pushed

back but they expect power to be restored to the remaining customers by sometime this afternoon. Traffic around the Prudential Center is tough as the Mass Pike exit 22 ramps to Copley Square and Prudential Center are still closed to allow for the electrical work. The Department of Transportation expects them to be open in time for the evening commute. WGBH radio is following the story and will continue to update you on it throughout the day. In other news federal seafood quality officials say they've just started tackling the most common kinds of seafood fraud charging customers for the ice used to keep fish fresh and bloating scallops with compounds that make them appear bigger or just a couple examples of the seafood for all the National Marine Fisheries Service is investigating. A spokesman from the agency says these deceptions are far more prevalent than the well publicized fraud of species substitution and a Maine Congressman Shelley pin gree is asking the nation's top Agriculture official to ban the use of so-called pink slime in school cafeteria food. She says the Agriculture Department has stopped buying ground beef that contains what she describes as an industrial

slurry of beef scraps and connective tissue. The new lottery drawing debuts tonight in the 16 England states. Winners of the lucky for life game gets $1000 a day for life. Tickets cost $2 drawings will be held in Connecticut on Mondays and Thursdays. In sports the Red Sox take on St. Louis at Fort Myers this afternoon and the Bruins are on the road playing the Panthers tonight. And in college men's basketball Harvard is up against Vanderbilt at Albuquerque this afternoon. The weather forecast for this afternoon cloudy with highs in the mid 40s tonight cloudy with temperatures in the mid 30s right now it's 40 in Boston 44 in Worcester and 45 in Providence. Support for NPR comes from Judith Steinberg and Paul Hogan mans in appreciation of the depth and breath of NPR's international news coverage. You're listening to WGBH. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley. Today we're talking about Dudley Square last week city officials and Roxbury residents gathered for a groundbreaking to kick off a

multimillion dollar revamp of Dudley Square. Joining me to talk about how this area will be transformed and what it means for the community are Ted lands Mark president of the Boston architectural college and Boston city councilor Tito Jackson who represents the seventh district. Thank you both for joining us today. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Ted let me start with you because the heart of this renovation is the Ferdinand building. And this is just not any other building. It's just an incredible piece of architecture and coming from the Boston architectural. So I thought you could give us a little it is a it is a very remarkable building the Ferdinands building. It was designed and built in 1899 so it's one of the older buildings that serves retail purposes in Boston to still be standing and it is in a baroque Revival style that is very ornate and really quite extraordinary quite beautiful with all kinds of detail on it that you wouldn't

see in a contemporary building so there was an understanding at the outset that whatever happened in Dudley Square that building had to stay and had to stay in a way that would really enhance and continue to attract people to the area because the aesthetics of that building are just so extraordinary. Well talk to us about what baroque means and when you say detail that you wouldn't see elsewhere what are we talking about. Well you know often people will associate baroque details with the great European churches all kinds of fancy plaster work and woodwork and curly cues and details that basically got stripped away when modernism came into being. And in a city like Boston you don't have that many baroque buildings. Boston emerged during a colonial period was very influenced by Victorian details but the kind of a very deeply ornate almost church like detail that you see in a baroque facade is just not

something that one finds anywhere else in the city or in most other American cities. And the blue because there's blue on it. Does that have any significance. Well the surface texture which if I remember correctly is a terra cotta surface texture so it's a kind of very. Specific an ornate tile is likewise something that one doesn't see very often and it's very difficult to find it in well preserved condition because what sometimes happens when you get those kinds of tiles is that water will get behind them over time and then they'll tend to fall off. And once that starts to happen whoever the building owner is feels compelled to strip all of that detail away from the building. And to go to a simpler facade and I think that frankly the Ferdinands building was helped in some respects by the fact that for a long time it was surrounded by an elevated railroad line so that certain parts of the

weather that might otherwise have destroyed the facade were essentially protected by the steel railroad subway structure that surrounded the building. So Tito Jackson over to you now as I said you represent the seventh district in the Ferdinand building is is a part of the area that you represent. But again it's more than a building to you as well. It is more than a building for me. People need to know that Dudley Square is the center of Boston. The physical center of the city of Boston as I like to say as goes Dudley will go to City of Boston and I think Dudley is definitely on the rise having such a significant and large parcel in the middle of our community off line for 35 40 years has meant has had a great negative effect on the other areas and other businesses in the community I can remember back to when Calvary's jewelry was in that neighborhood I bought my first boom box there. I

can't remember when I was there and we used to go and get fish and parakeets they actually sold you know so little fish and parakeets at the Woolworth's Dudley used to be a bustling place and it was it was a down town for uptown and there were you could go get shoes there were a lot of things that you could get there. But again over the course of time after the L was taken down and you got to see this beautiful building with I like the circular windows are are really significant and fabulous to me. But really what this means is economic development for communities that base the base floor will be about 20000 square feet of retail space. And what we're looking to do is something in the same vein as the transportation building. Which is kind of the only model that we have of a municipal building that actually has private businesses on the first floor. We want to have Dudley open to 10 11 12 o'clock at night. We know that darkness and light can't live in the same place

and we need to make sure that it's a place in the city just like many other city centers where you have restaurants. There's really no place other than our friends at the Haley House in the evening to sit down and eat. So we'd like to see a restaurant lounge as well as other types of commerce in that area. In addition to complement what's happening at the Ferdinand building is that we have two significant parcels parcel mine as well as a parcel 10 which are right at the corner of money a CAS and Washington Street which have also been built out and will be coming online all at the same time. So there's this amazing synergy that is going to occur in that area. As I said before as goes Dudly will go to City of Boston and we're on the move and on the rise. Ted one of the things about the Ferdinand building renovation that's also exciting is that it's going to happen pretty fast. 2014 they're saying it's should be done that's the projected time. And you've been part of the jury looking at the designs looking at the plans.

Tell us about that. Well the construction will happen very quickly at this point we need to remember that. Going back to 2004 there were promises that something would happen in that area and for folks who were around then this seems like a slow process. Well that's true yeah. But now that now that we're in 2012 it is absolutely true the design has moved very quickly and the construction will move forward quickly and that's partly because the Ferdinands building is already there. I was invited by the mayor and by the Redevelopment Authority to sit on the two juries that evaluated proposals that were submitted by over 30 architectural teams from all over the world. We had English teams we had Dutch teams we had teams that came in from the West Coast. And they included some of the most prestigious and well-known architecture firms in the world. Many of them teamed up with

local for us. And the reason that people were very excited about this site is partly because of the historic nature of the Ferdinands building but also because what's going to be connected to it has to be a state of the art office building that will serve a community as well as serving the needs of a city agency. When you think back the city over the last 40 or 50 years has built a number of. Important public buildings in neighborhoods the new police headquarters for example and certainly libraries in many of the neighborhoods. But a building of this scale and of this importance hasn't been built in the city since City Hall was built back in the 1960s when you think about it. So this is really a very important building and a lot of the architecture teams from around the world thought here's an opportunity to work with Historic Preservation to work with the community and to also build a building which will be green

sustainable lead certified so that it will be a very energy efficient which is something we're all thinking of about particularly on a day like today. Yes. And a building that will be very visible in a city that is drawing an increasingly global and international public. So the teams were very excited and making the choice of the final team was really a challenge in that the team evaluating the work included architects from around the world community people and people from the city. And it was a tough choice but I think with it we made a very good one because the work that is being presented seems to meet all the criteria that the community and the city needed to have that. And what was that criteria to you know that the community particularly was because that is really the community has been very vocal because of the things it has just said the heart and you to

this building being the heart of you know definitely. So I think really what the community was looking for was a building that brought the community together not an eyesore as we see in other other parts of the city one that reflected the culture and flavor of the community one that stayed open because the other the other aspect of this. It's I mean this will building most municipal buildings close at 5:00 or 5:30 or 6:00. So we wanted to make sure that folks in the community had an opportunity to literally see a light the bright lights of new businesses in and around our community. And I think in building the building one of the things that the community really wants to see and we need to make sure that occurs is that people who are in this community and in these neighborhoods get those jobs and get those contracts and have an opportunity to literally do. The that figure phrase of community building. There are many people who are unemployed. We see double and

triple the unemployment rates in Roxbury Dorchester man a point man upin. So the objective here is to make sure that people get back to work and they're able to build their community and that this Boston resident policy of 50 50 percent residents at least 25 percent people of color and 10 percent women is actually adhered to. And I'm sorry the the prospects for teaching a master plan that has been working on this project for a long long time. Actually we want to see 50 percent people of color. Fifty percent residents and 15 percent women. We have benches that are full of folks and I speak to our friends and labor on a regular basis. We have an opportunity right now today to put those folks back back to work to make sure that Boston residents not New Hampshire residents not ruin that Connecticut residents are working on that on this site and those dollars go back into our community. So that's what the community wants to see. OK we're going to talk about some more community interaction because there was a there's been a lot around this particular

piece of the renovation of Dudley Square. I'm Kelly Crossley I'm speaking with Ted landmark president of the Boston architectural College in Boston city councilor Tito Jackson he was just speaking. We're talking about the plans afoot to redevelop the square. You're listening to WGBH Boston Public Radio. This program is made possible thanks to you. An orchestra of Indian Hill Maestro Bruce hange and conducts an afternoon of masterpieces for guitar and orchestra with special guest Elliot Fisk in Rodriguez concert the day out on Whit Sunday March 18th at 3 in Littleton Indian Hill music dot org and Thomas Mosher cabinetmakers handcrafted in Maine by men and women dedicated to crafting furniture that celebrates woods and natural beauty. You can visit their back bay show room at 9000 Arlington Street or at Thomas Mosher dot com. And the PBS News Hour solid reliable reporting has made it one of the most

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discount. Unlike the stash I have to. Hope you can make it. To your taxes be funny to see rhyme or are so tune in for kicks as we recite tax limericks this week on Marketplace Money. Sunday afternoon at 4:00 here on WGBH radio. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just joining us we're talking about rejuvenating Roxbury. Last year last week rather there was a groundbreaking ceremony and deadly square to officially launch a major multimillion dollar redevelopment project which is slated to wrap up by 2014. Joining me to talk about how this area will be transformed and what it means for the community are Ted lands Mark president of the Boston architectural college and Boston city councilor Tito Jackson who represents the seventh district. Now Tito before we went to break we were talking about the involvement of community folks who are you know quite concerned about a couple of things. As you point out

getting a chance to work on the project and also hoping that when the building is done that some of these small businesses some a couple of whom have already been displaced in preparation for the renovation get a chance to be in that building. So talk to me about what's happening to address both those concerns and make both of those things a reality. So there are two significant structures that are actually right next to this site. One is the waterman building and the other one is the other building that sits next to the water. And there are two significant structures we were going to make sure that the facades and the building stayed up. The city decided that it would be a better project if they were to do it taking on those buildings and incorporate those buildings into the Ferdinand building. I actually agree with that. I know there are some folks who are critical of that. I know it's a difficult piece but I think knowing that those facades that are historic will be preserved in perpetuity as long as a city is collecting your taxes which is in perpetuity.

That that is a good thing for our community and our nation as a people understand that so the city took the buildings by eminent domain and that means that the people who had business is in them at this moment. OK yes and so to date we are actually finding other locations for those businesses in the community. If they do not want to move forward the city will have to give them fair value for their business. So you know I know its a difficult piece but I think its in terms of the best for the project. But then in terms of how we do this and do it right with the businesses and the community the objective is to have this one building which is a significant structure catch fire. In a figurative way with the other buildings that are around there to have people take off the grates that often block block light. But to have folks know that they will and feel safe keeping their

business open past 5:30 and 6:00 o'clock because right now what we see in the square are businesses closing literally at 5:30 and around 6:00 o'clock that is that is a that is a problem and so those are the types of things that we'd like to see. But then in addition I think we also have another component that we could see is some young innovative entrepreneurs to come into that area. Dudley is perfectly positioned. There are 35000 people who go through the station every day. I'm if you look at Melania Cass Boulevard it comes right off the highway so you have the highway at one end at the other and you have Northeastern University right up the street you have Roxbury Community College. We have available land in that area. It is fertile. It is the fertile crescent I think in the city of Boston for innovation and economic development. And again I we can't only look at this as one project we actually need to look at it as the square and the Melia Cass area being built up together and really an economic development zone rather than any one individual project.

Yeah that was one of the key elements of it. How final for us were decided upon a number of the firms came in and just designed a building that didn't necessarily connect to the community and society and Mark knew who were selected to do this. Immediately took a look at the transit that was right next door and asked How do you incorporate the transit into this market who had done some very interesting work in Europe around transit stations and how they helped to drive economic development there from the Netherlands which is say that Saki is from Watertown continue right. And there was a question of how you keep this particular parcel open and transparent and inviting so that the municipal building didn't seem like a fortress that in fact there would be reasons and ways for people to use not only the ground level in the retail but also to have meeting spaces and ways of getting up to the roof. The views from the upper

floors there into downtown and back into Roxbury made the neighborhood just incredible and so you want to open those up in a way where the community can use those. And increasingly there are buildings around the country in Washington for example or Salt Lake City where people are invited to go up to the roofs and to make them part of the public space to make them. Outdoor gardens and to make them places of repose in a place where you can go and have a sandwich and really enjoy a big view in the middle of the bustle of a city. So incorporating all of those uses was very important for this project and a connection to the transit the connection to the library the connection to the retail in the community was an important part of what the architects had to address. You know so how about making sure that the people who are putting this together the design people are making certain that folks in the community are building

they're building the building yes. So Tom Goldman who's the president of summit construction. He knows me very well now. I meet with bi weekly we've we've we've been working with one another. The thing I like about Sharma construction is it's a local farm. This is one of the larger projects that they're doing. And also the fact that they've been willing to come and really be involved that all of the community meetings they've hired and I'm going to give out a number. Clyde Thomas So there if there are folks from this community who want to go ahead and get on to this job site they have already hired someone even though the site is just starting. You can reach out to Clyde Thomas at 6 1 7 6 2 2 7 2 4 8. And his e-mail AC Thomas at Shawmut dot com. And so they're doing and making the proactive steps to actually include folks in addition not only do we want jobs we also want to make sure that

minority business enterprises as well as women business and enterprises meaning businesses meaning subcontractors have an opportunity to get part of this contract. I'm looking at a and somebody that thinks the tiles are something I think that whatever our plumber or something. Yeah so not only the people again not only the workers but people who own the business because that's actually where wealth is built. And so and I've set forth the time that I'd like to see 30 percent people of color and 10 percent women at least on the site. And we've seen other sites such as Whittier Street hit the hit a 30 percent 29 percent people of color 9 percent women their numbers around. The minority participation was actually I to say majority because 53 percent of the people in the city of Austin are people of color. Forty six percent resident 46 percent people of color and 9 percent women. So we have projects that are coming in on time and

on budget where we see people of color working on the sites but also getting contracts on the sites and and the sites are getting delivered on time and on budget so many of the things that were said in the past relative to the inability of these businesses as well as people to do the jobs. Those are bogus now. And so it also comes at a time that's unique when it comes to the labor pool. When you look at the Boston building trades on average they're ages 54. And so and it's worked many of them. Their kids are going to college instead of going and being a bricklayer instead of going to being a plumber. So this is an unique opportunity for communities of color to get involved in the trades and I've spoken with Marty Walsh as well as Mark fortune and many of the folks in the building trades and they've started actually a program called building pathways where they've actually taken in 30 people from the community and classes of 15. Put them through a pre apprentice program and

guaranteed a seat. So this is the type of positive progress that I'd like to see and it will end us up. Not only with the proper numbers on this individual site but with a pool of workers who can go forward and build their future of Boston. And as you point out there's a couple other sites coming on line and we should also not forget the symbolism of who's going to be using this building. This is a school department building so where maybe we should just be clear that the Boston school department going to move from its current location on Court Street into this building that is correct. So this will become headquarters for the the group which is educating our next generations. It's important to bring young people in early on to understand how the construction is to think of themselves as being a part of the making of this new building in the community in a way where 20 or 30 years from now people

will look back and they'll say gee I had a hand in helping to build that building. Unlike a lot of other commercial buildings municipal buildings tend to be around for a very long time. This building will be there a century from now in all likelihood. And you want not only this emerging generation but the next generations to remember that their fathers and mothers and grandfathers and grandmothers worked on this building. A Madison Park is right there and youth works is right down the street so we have an opportunity to engage our young people on the site in ways that we haven't seen in the past in the past and we're definitely encouraging them to do that and and the other unique aspect of this is that the school department is actually going to be near students which I think you know what. Yeah I think a really novel concept and then you know instead of paying $30 to park downtown you'll actually be able to be at a place that's right down the street from Madison Park right down the street from Johnny O'Bryant right down the street from temple to

where all of these schools are which I think is is a great thing. You're listening to eighty nine point seven WGBH an on line at WGBH dot org. We're talking about the multimillion dollar redevelopment plan that is afoot in deadly school year. I'm joined by Ted landmark president of the Boston architectural college and Boston city councilor Tito Jackson who represents the seventh district. OK so we're all excited at this table and I must say I am not just from a report Tauriel stance but the best barber in the world operates right now in deadly Square. I know this personally so I'd like to see this area be like right. But having said that there are some people who are looking at this with just a bit of a jaundiced eye and their concern is not so much because you know everybody wants redevelopment to happen and in a positive way for the community but their concern is that this means gentrification and gentrification with a big negative meaning that a lot of the little people will be forced out and they'll never benefit from the beautifulness of the building or the opportunities that could be there

so let me read from a gentleman who has taken to his blog to in a very excited he's very angry about words you know I read no bad words. OK. So this is what he says. Boston Mayor Thomas Menino is trying to gentrify historic deadly square in Roxbury Massachusetts Square for those who don't know is the equivalent to Harlem in New York and the used tree corridor in D.C.. Goes on to say Mister I mean Menino has magically This is in caps pulled one hundred fifteen million dollars out of thin air like the Federal Reserve and now wants to fulfill his promise of revitalizing Dudley Square by rewarding the Boston Public School department who oversees the currently in caps failing and dilapidated also in caps. Boston public schools with brand new offices. Seriously. He asked in caps and with a question mark. And he goes on to just say that in other places in so many other cities what has happened is that the folks who should be benefiting form in the end just do not and that general director for Keisha needs to be looked at

carefully as this goes forward. So let both of you respond to that. Does a renovation of Dudley particularly with an emphasis around the Ferdinand building headlands market in and of itself speak to gentrification. Well a couple of responses one is that we have to remember this is a project that's been talked about for at least 20 or 30 years and the building has been vacant for decades 30 plus years. A vacant building does not enhance a community something needs to be done with it. And what you want to do with it is to bring economic development and financial resources into the community. One can argue that as in Harlem for example when a new state office building was constructed there that would in fact attract different people into the community who would drive up rents or drive up housing prices and the like. But I'd have to

think that that would have happened years ago this is hardly the first development in the neighborhood. There was a new library there's a new police station. There are a number of new buildings that have gone into the community that involve social services there was once a new post office there's a school that was part of the revitalization revitalization is inevitable and one should not celebrate the maintenance of decrepit facilities as a way of maintaining. Low economic levels within a community a community has to grow. It has to draw new people and I don't think that there's any question but that at some level there will be some gentrification that's happened in the south and it's happened elsewhere. But if you look at the South then there are still people living there in affordable housing. If you look at other neighborhoods of the

city where improvements have been made gentrification has not ruined those neighborhoods. And I think that it's important to keep looking forward and to realize that in any community the community thrives in part because there is a strong flow of capital through that community that supports the businesses in those communities. And my expectation is that Dudly will continue to maintain its character as a community that is mixed. As a community that is global because of the people who are drawn there for the stores for the businesses and that while gentrification is a risk. Vigilance in terms of maintaining access to the new stores that will move in will help to prevent that. So do you let me put it to you this way because this is what I hear underneath his anger about it and that is something of what Ted just touched on at the end there that a loss of culture

by you know folks who don't have that culture coming in and stamping that out with a new facade. So interesting so the next meeting that I have at 4:00 today is to look at making Roxbury a cultural district a state designated a cultural district that effort is being headed up by a friend of the council. Counselor Yana Presley and I are working on pulling together all of the great cultural aspects of Roxbury and having having it be branded as a cultural district. We have many great and strong and resilient folks in our in our community who have been there through the thinnest and now and as things thicken up I think they will still be able to be there and to be present and the businesses they'll be able to grow. We have many. And if you look at the State of Black Boston report Roxbury Dorchester man upin they have twenty two hundred small businesses

on average. They're for people right now. If you think about an infusion of five to 600 folks into that area the little subs that's there or the little mom and pop shop that's there. Those are more customers for them. I think it will allow them to expand and also to do some storefront improvements. Many think good things will come. Do we have to be vigilant when it comes to making sure that the people who still live who've lived in that neighborhood still to continue to live there. Yes we do. We have to think about that and how we do the planning on parcel 10 which is going to be a combination of tropical Foods which is a. This is the piece across the street from the Ferdinand building is the same. It's actually up the street up the street at the corner of money a castle and Washington Street and it's where tropical foods so many folks from actually all around the state come about 13000 people

a week come through that store. So we're going to rebuild that store. But in addition there's going to be housing there. And one of the things that the community is asking for is more mixed income housing. I'm in Boston about 60 percent of the housing is low low income housing. And so we folks are asking for a different mix of housing where if if you make 60 $70000 a year and you aren't living on Fort Hill you really don't have that great of an opportunity to live work and play which is really what we're going to be looking for and in a smart growth that will be looking looking at in that area. I understand the frustration. I think we can be vigilant. I think when we what we'll see is a doubly square that is rejuvenated well-lit and that has businesses that are thriving as they did in the past I think when I think about and we had this conversation off line. What Chuck Turner fought for.

My father owns a former city council on a city council sector and I was before he was a city council when my father Herb Jackson fought for which was to make sure that people got jobs that their community was clean. That there were jobs for folks. I keep on saying jobs but people had an opportunity to take care of themselves and their family and that's a doubly station that I think will see in the future. And I think it will be bigger better and better than before. Headlines like you get the last word. Communicate your excitement. If you look forward about seeing that Ferdinand building redone and bustling I'm thrilled. I think that this will be an award winning project in part because of the aesthetics and the technical work that will be done it'll be almost certainly the most advanced sustainable building that the city has ever built and likely will be looked at by other cities for that reason. But I'm frankly more excited by the fact that it fulfills

the dreams that a lot of people have had for revitalizing Dudley for many many decades. This is always been a strong cultural community and like other strong cultural communities in the city this kind of development will help and enhance what the community has always wanted to be. And once the sustain within itself. So I'm looking forward to the completion of this project they know that they'll be a lot of community people involved with it and it's a great day for Dudley. All right. Thank you so much. Thanks to both of you. I'm Kelly Crossley we've been talking about the new redevelopment project underway in Dudley Square and how and how it will change Roxbury. I've been speaking with headlands Mark president of the Boston architectural college and Boston city councilor Tito Jackson who represents the seventh district. Up next we continue the urban renewal conversation with Nate Swain. He's on a mission to brighten up Boston one large mural at a

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Rick great question on fresh air you'll hear unexpected questions and unexpected answers this afternoon here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. I'm Cally Crossley joining me in the studio is Nate Swain. He is a landscape architect by training who has set his sights on brightening up Boston by way of art intervention. We're talking murals. Big big photo murals Nate Swain runs the blog blank ugly boring Boston potentially made beautiful mates wine. Welcome thank you. So you've got to explain what your murals are like because this is not just a guy with a crayon sort of drawing something where you're doing taking gorgeous photos and putting them on buildings in a very unique way. Yes. We have the mega pixels and the cameras now to blow photographs as big as we want. So why not take advantage of the technology

and just do that. And there's walls all over the city that you can do this on. And it's really exciting. And I'm also working with a printer who is able to do this. They have 16 for inkjet printers and they can print things up to 100 feet 200 feet. So when you say OK so it's 100 feet by what did you just say. Hundred hundred. OK so just because we're I want people to get their minds to the largeness how big these are. So it's like you know nine million eight by left all going together. Trying to have people have a sense of how large they are. Yes. Yeah. Like for instance I have a photo simulation showing the side of the T.D. Garden and that wall is like 80 feet by 400 feet or so I've never measured it but just by looking at it that wall to do would be done in like three or four panels. And the photo a splay SST printed spaced and matched up and then you just go is because you want so why big why murals why

photo murals I mean as we've said you're a landscape architect by training. What made you think big walls actually put some big on them. Well I like the idea it's never been tried before. You've seen stuff done by Christo and he does a giant rapping buildings but usually uses like just one fabric and it cost millions of dollars and it's only up for a few months at the most. And I'm proposing to print large you know photographs and it's and when you look at walls inside your house or your apartment you don't just have blank walls you fill them with photography and and and beautify them. And I sort of think that we should do this in the public realm. It should be shared a shared thing where you don't have to pay to go into a museum to see our meet. You can but you can also see it for free and it's available for everyone at all hours of the day. It's a true since real public art Exactly. So now you just mind your

own business and one day it just hits you that this is what I should do what I mean what if I were you inspired to do this. It was from my first neuro project I was really going to paint a thousand windows on this electrical substation that they were pricked up and I was pricing scaffolding scaffolding was going to be around $30000 to rent for four months and be on the building side of the building in the summer for four months painting. And I was just freaking out over all. And I've thankfully had the epiphany one day when I sat with down by the TV card and saw all these banners and I was thinking I could do this in photography. I was already doing photo seems to show the neighborhood what it was going to look like. And I ended up doing just that. I took individual photos of objects like curtains from Bed Bath and Beyond plants from flower stores cats just and collage these 18 windows together had them printed and the installation went from four months to three days. And it's it was easy and the price got cut more in half

and it was just this amazing process and then it's a sort of hit me where I sort of found what I wanted to do in life. Well you say it's easy because you're an artist and you know how to do this. And that's a beautiful piece it's as you said there it's still up so you can see each of the Windows has a little scenario that you created so it looks like there's some real activity and he has those windows sort of fools the eye as you say and some of your other murals around the city do the same I love the one at the St Leonards peace garden that's so lush and beautiful. Thank you that was taken with one photograph at Arnold Arboretum in the spring. And I had that photo blown up 20 feet tall. By 35 feet wide and then buried it around the other side of the building and I've never seen a thing like that before this came up with the idea and when I was when I was being installed I was freaking out because I'm like how is it look but it was sort of this thing that I just invented and now I'm addicted.

Well if somebody goes to your blog or your website they can see that your blog is blank ugly boring Boston potentially made beautiful photo blog but you do have the Nate Swain website and you can see actually what that looks like at the St. Leonard Peace Garden. So it's looks like a beautiful brick building with all this lush green ivy and then. But what's really interesting is to see what the ball looked like before which was nothing just as you say ugly concrete wall. And so you feel like you're in a garden. Yeah really bad exactly. Yeah you know they sort of make it look like a normal scene and it's green all year long too and that's the the beauty of it is you get the color in the city like in the winter of Boston isn't very colorful. Yeah. You think that this when I was immortal. So now here's something that is interesting. You don't use text. No people and no numbers. Why. Well I kind of want to stay away from doing advertising banners. Once you text you're in the realm of advertising. But if you just keep it the imagery it's stays in the realm of art and. And also people

that I've seen murals all over the place with people painted in them and I always thought people that are walking around you know living are more interesting and then seeing a catatonic person painted on a wall unless it's historic sometimes when you paint historic people it's nice to see what they look like and then add them into scenes and also numbers. So I think the image should just speak to you without all the things that you see advertisers use and screaming with with with letters and numbers and messages. This is about the word that you're using to describe text is like screaming at you and you're looking for peace Oh yes. So it's like it's something with just the photo with none of that exactly. And you're saying you're able to escape into the image. OK so now you're not this is not how you make your living so this is something you do because you like it but you know I well I'm you know I'm starting to make it where it is where I make my live ok good since I was here but you're eating Yeah I know.

I worked for two years almost two years at this company and next up living insulating houses and that was a really tough job. But I got to see all of Boston and see all the walls I thought before. When I first came up with this idea I thought I knew Boston but then driving around insulating houses you realize how huge Boston is and how many of these walls that are everywhere. And even the surrounding communities and just the landscape has been taken over by the automobile and sort of stripped of all interest when you're you know on foot. I mean the city of Boston is the I think it's the most beautiful city in America. And well let's I'm just going to ask you because you have on your blog blank does not equal ugly ugly ness and beauty is in the eye of the boulder. Yes but you would seem to suggest by the name of your blog that there's a lot of ugliness in both Boston compared to other cities in the United States. It's in really good shape. It only had like about 10 15 percent of Boston needs

beautification. And even if it was left alone it's no big deal. There's other cities in the United States that are just they look like they were shelled and bombed. They. There are parking lots and just crazy like blank wall buildings all over the place so you have something foundational to begin with here in Boston. OK. Yeah. What you grow up in. What were your first landscapes that you say oh I grew up in Worcester. And I went to school UMass Amherst and did landscape architecture design drafting. And my first projects I actually helped design Madison Park in Dudley Square and that was a really great Prado OK. You know we're just talking about Dudley Square so you know you can really appreciate that. Yes. OK. I realized in high school that my mission in life was to make the world more beautiful. And I've been trying to achieve that mission ever since. OK it should be noted that you're not like a group graffiti artist sort of striking in the dark and going

away. You really ask permission and you interact with the community. Sometimes it's you know there's a lot of input from the community. Yes what happens when you ask and are people startled by your project or out of there. I think they're actually more acceptable to it because I for them show them a photo of what I'm proposing. And that's a photo simulation of the action and yes OK. And and then what the installation. It's easily removable. It's on sticky vinyl or stretched vinyl. It's a big stick you know. Yes exactly. OK and it's not something that's physically painted to the wall so property owners are usually more acceptable to the idea. There's been murals in Boston that started chipping and flaking and they had the sand blasted off the wall. But my proposal is easily removable and movable. For instance of a wall there was going to be a new building put in over the wall you can take it off the wall and put it on another wall. And it's like it's a new way of doing girls.

Now you have a couple places on your website that you've identified you'd like to do in the future. Yes. The garden one then I thought this is particularly interesting given what's going on downtown in the blackout in Star substation. Yes. They may need some beautification. Yes substations and utility buildings are usually the most blank and boring because no one works in them so they don't put windows in there just like utilitarian. So there's ways to make them so much better. What is the reaction of not the people that you ask who owned the buildings and they say yes but just other folk. They just turn turn the corner suddenly there's something totally different there wasn't there before. Well what's been that response or have you monitored it. I have yes I have noticed that with the St Leonards wall from Hanover street it looks real and people hear them when I'm walking by all the time say wow that's that's not real and they give a second glance and it's pretty interesting and I think there's that surprise in photography when you

blow it up big. It tricks the guy and it's. It can be really amazing I want to also eventually get into doing digital totally digital landscapes or just you can do like Avatar kind of stuff. And that would be really interesting. Now now that we have the technology we can make any image we want. Would you ever consider doing to sell large murals for inside someone's home. Of course yeah. I'm open to anything. Anyone who wants to beautify their surroundings I'm all for it. So what's most exciting for you about doing this. I mean how do you feel when you complete one of these assignments. I like the idea it takes on a life of its own. And it it it requires no energy to stay there and it can stay there for up to 20 years 10 to 20 years depending on the sun exposure. And it's it's there 24 hours a day and it's beautiful

and it changes with the the the light of the day and it changes with the season and with that some of that like I have photos of the St Leonards wall in the snow. And it's really strikingly the contrast with the break between when there's when it's really just an amazing to see that sort of thing. What's the one place I know you have some places you've put on your website you'd like to get to but what's the one place in Boston you live to get to. Definitely the the T.D. Garden it would be a love since it's the biggest wall I think I definitely Well would you put there the ends I have the idea of putting a photo of the inside of the garden on the outside panoramic and make turn the into the building inside out and show either the Bruins rink or the Celtics court and you can even swap it out with different banners and stuff so when the Celtics are playing they have the Celtics right. And that's and vice versa. Any chance that's going to happen. We'll see.

I got an e-mail from someone from the garden and it's expensive it's to do the largest wall in Boston and somewhere in the neighborhood around a hundred thousand dollars. But it will it will be up there for five 10 years easily. And they're supposed to be buildings put in front of an shaly but in the NBA I mean to me. Exactly before you were a public artist did you like public art. I did yeah. It's I I really was a fan of Banksy and all these other Jr's another one. They're doing pretty pretty interesting things. And so are you Nate Swain thank you so much. Thank you. We've been talking about making Boston more beautiful with Nate Swain. Nate Swain is a train landscape architect who is practicing public art with his photo murals. He runs the blog blank ugly boring Boston potentially made beautiful. Check it out at ugly Boston dot blogspot dot com. Thanks Nate. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter or

become a fan of the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook. Today Show was engineered by Antonio only art and produced by Chelsea Mertz will Rose left an abbey Ruzicka where production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.