WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley This is the Cali Crossley Show we're talking about filings basement the famous franchise closed its doors for good last week. Founded in 1909 the original basement was an otherworldly underground where a bride to be would come to blows over bridal gowns were notable locals like Governor Dukakis and Mayor Menino would graze for good deals. Those were its glory days. Today it's a gigantic gaping hole the landmark was torn down four years ago to make way for a multimillion dollar development. An enterprise that never got off the ground. This hour we examine why the development has been stalled. And we look at what it would take to breathe life into what was once a buzzing hive of activity. From there we talk to the filmmakers who captured filings finer days in the documentary Voices from the basement. Up next if I leans from its prime to the pits. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh. The kick off contest of the

2012 presidential race unfolds tonight in Iowa where voters will take part in caucuses to settle on a favorite Republican candidate. With just hours to go many people remain undecided hoping to sway those voters. The GOP contenders have been campaigning up to the very last minute for support including that of the youth vote at a Rock the Caucus rally in West Des Moines today Ron Paul sought to appeal to those angry about the state of education spending the cost of education has skyrocketed. That isn't because education cost goes out. That's because of the value of the money that goes down. Whether Paul's message will resonate with caucus goers tonight remains to be seen as Sonari Glinton reports from Des Moines former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum. Appears to be the latest Republican candidates has to surge that is in the polls. Rick Santorum has visited each of Iowa's 99 counties. He did it with little money or organization. Santorum says the caucuses are about retail politics.

Elections aren't about money anymore. Elections are about being ideas. You can get a lot of information a lot of voters right now without jamming the airwaves the most recent Des Moines Register poll has Santorum finishing behind former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney and Texas Congressman Ron Paul. Santorum says a third place finish would be a victory because that will far surpass expectations. Sonari Glinton NPR News Des Moines. One big issue for voters of the economy U.S. stocks are moving higher on this first day of trading in 2012 with some solid news out on the economy. Manufacturing picked up in December at its fastest pace in six months. The Institute for Supply Management a trade group of Purchasing Managers says its index rose from fifty two point seven to fifty three point nine. An increase is also reported in construction spending. In Afghanistan the Taliban appear to be opening the door to a peace process. NPR's Quil Lawrence reports that the Islamic movement has agreed to open an office in Qatar with an eye toward talks for several years now Afghan and American

officials have sought an opening for peace talks in a war that even military commanders say will only end through a political settlement. Previously the Taliban had vowed no talks intil foreign troops left Afghanistan. Now in a statement sent to Kabul journalists the Taliban accepted an offer by Qatar to open a political office. The statement also asked for the release of several prisoners from Guantanamo Bay Cuba which may confirm reports of a deal reached with the United States to begin preliminary negotiations. Still violence continues in Afghanistan in Khandahar today a suicide bomber targeted a police checkpoint but killed mostly bystanders. Many of them children. Quil Lawrence NPR News. Mazhar e Sharif Afghanistan. At last check on Wall Street the Dow was up 182 points nearly one and a half percent of twelve thousand four hundred. This is NPR News. As NATO's pulls out of Afghanistan so too will about 30 billion dollars worth of military gear. The Associated Press cites a senior official saying the

coalition's state of the art equipment including thousands of armored vehicles will be withdrawn from Afghanistan by the end of 2014 when U.S. and other NATO forces and their combat mission. A new person is running the Federal Bureau of Prisons Charles Samuels is the first African-American to leave the federal prison system. NPR's Carrie Johnson reports he'll oversee more than 200000 inmates. Charles Samuels is no stranger to the federal prison bureaucracy in the course of his 23 year career. He's worked as a warden in Kentucky in New Jersey. He's also run Security and Emergency Management Programs at Washington headquarters. Prisoners Rights advocates had pressed the Justice Department to appoint a prison leader from outside the system to shake things up. But they say they'll try to work with Samuels to try to solve serious problems with overcrowded facilities and difficult conditions. Carrie Johnson NPR News Washington. A 24 year old German national is being held in connection with dozens of arson

fires in the Los Angeles area. Authorities say firefighters have not responded to any other suspicious fires since Harry Burkhart was arrested but they say they're not ruling out the possibility. That more than one person was involved. We're seeing U.S. stocks surge today with the Dow up 182 points or one and a half percent to twelve thousand three hundred ninety nine in trading of about 2 billion shares in the Nasdaq is up more than one and a half percent at two thousand six hundred forty six. Lakshmi Singh NPR News. Support for NPR comes from Cabot creamery cooperative makers of naturally age Vermont cheddar cheese and offering recipes stories and programs for schools at Cabot cheese dot co-op. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley. We're talking about filings basement both the downtown store and story pet storied past and the possible future for the spot where it used to be from the basement in general. And later in the hour we'll visit with

filmmakers who captured the history of downtown filings but first a look at the sad ending of a Boston institution. Last week the filings basement franchise closed its doors for good. The original and beloved basement located in Downtown Crossing was torn down in 2008 to make way for a multimillion dollar complex. A tough four years have already elapsed and that area is still a huge gaping hole. Joining me to talk about the effect that this void is having on Downtown Crossing our Anthony Flint and Thomas Grillo. Anthony Flint is a fellow at the Lincoln Institute of land policy. He's also the author of Wrestling with Moses how Jane Jacobs took on New York's master builder and Transformed the American city. Thomas Grillo is the real estate editor for The Boston Business Journal. Thank you both for joining us today. Thanks for having us. Great to be here. Well let's start off with the latest news about the filings basement spot downtown and that is this. Yesterday the newly reinstated city council president

Mike Murphy made the statement echoing something that Thomas Menino mayor said last month which is as long as we're not oh. The big big owner of the of the spot and the creator allegedly of this going to be the thirty nine story complex that was going to be where the filings basement store had once been as long as they do not do anything to replace that project. Sell that do whatever they're going to do to make that that whole whole if you will. W H O L E. They cannot. He will not allow any progress or any any part that they can play in the Suffolk Downs potential gambling license casino. And that's a lot of money on the table. Even though we've had experts here say that the slots are not where you make the big money. There's still money to be hit so that seems to be it. Thomas Grillo real estate editor for The Boston Business Journal. The first serious leverage that one could give or not would you agree

right for NATO is a 20 percent owner of Suffolk Downs and the mayor has said over my dead body will something get done at Suffolk Downs. Until for NATO cleans up the mess that they made in Downtown Crossing. So if they can't even if they have 20 percent of the Suffolk Downs. Unit States and if they can't move forward in that then what. They just lose on both ends it seems to me because they can't go forward there and they can't. And if they don't do anything with this hope that doesn't seem like a possibility. So they're going to so you think that this is it they're going to now. I think this year could be the year I mean every year everybody's been saying that including the you know the commercial real estate developers around the city but with this pivotal time in getting casinos to come to Massachusetts for Neda wants to be a player. East Boston is the prime choice of the House speaker the mayor. This is the time to do something about Downtown Crossing get it done.

So I want to get your response to this latest really articulated threat by both the city council president and Mayor Menino by Anthony Flint What do you think. Well it follows on an earlier suggestion that the city might use eminent domain to take back the site. So the passions have been running high about the site and it's and it's no wonder because this is a special place it's the downtown Boston. It's been a continual work in progress and it has a lot of potential. So. You've got a lot of very sort of emotional elements here. Beginning with the loss of filings I mean this is the place where Mike Dukakis went to buy a suit off the rack right and where the Christmas windows were a part of everyone's celebration so it's a very important part of the city the heart of the city. And you have a mayor who's very much engaged in reinventing Downtown Crossing. How do we get here. I mean I know that they sold in 2007 but I mean

the fact that they were just because it's such as a site that means so much to Boston I just I'm still open mouthed about the fact that no movement of any sort that either somebody else didn't come in or there hasn't been some new inventive way to use it that the city comes up with. Why Thomas girl. Well you have to realize a couple of factors first of all this project was originally about seven hundred fifty million dollars. It was going to be a mix of condos a hotel lots of retail and some office space. Now the world was very different back then. They couldn't build luxury condos in Boston fast enough. There was the need for office space. Then the markets crashed financing you know became unavailable. Now we have. At least 20 percent vacancy rate in the financial district. No one's buying luxury condos anymore. And the money's not available though. So do I do here that office space is being claimed now that more people are interested in Office Space. Well but mostly in the Back Bay the financial district is really hurting with about a 20 percent vacancy rate. So the world is

completely different. The question is this How much is very Neda willing to lose there in this project for 100 million dollars for the purchase. About 50 million dollars for demolition and another 20 million dollars to buy up the filings. Lisa's. So it's a question of and people are saying the property is worth maybe 50 million. It's a question of how much are they willing to lose. Well couldn't gain that back assuming the Suffolk Downs they get the license and made money over there. Absolutely. So that's like two years of their time over there with slots. I mean I'm just saying Right that's what everybody is predicting big money. Anthony Flynn I wonder if because it was downtown you know Thomas just made a really important point. That office space is coming back but in the back bay not in downtown. What is it about the downtown area that may actually be kind of a turnoff for some people to think of it in a reinvented kind of way.

Well there's there's a lot of interesting cultural and other themes that sort of thread through all of this. It is a crossroads. The transit service is something that other cities would just die for. With the red line the Orange Line all kinds of different people come in from various other parts of the city and converge on Downtown Crossing primarily as this sort of retail area turned into a pedestrian mall which is kind of a 70s type intervention that a lot of other cities have tried and by the way a number of other cities including Sacramento are turning these pedestrian malls back into allowing cars and making it more like Newbury Street which I think would actually be a positive step. So you have this core of Washington Street and a. The idea of calling it the latter district at one time you remember that it was sort of like they were still calling it a marketing ploy that never really caught on in the way that Soho or something like that has caught on but the one constant is

that there has been a return to downtown living in cities across the country. He got a lot of aging baby boomers empty nesters they're giving up the big house in the suburbs and they do want to live downtown now maybe back they might be the South then. But the thinking was there would be room for downtown living and the other big component here is the is the big dig is the green way and the way that that improved property values along the Greenway and adjacent and some of the some of the cross roads going across the Rose Kennedy Greenway. So there's still a lot of potential for living. Downtown and making it truly a 24/7 kind of area let me follow up on a couple things you said. For one thing and the latter district marketing that included downtown as we're thinking about it with you know Washington Street and the Downtown Crossing and the South in and back bay. So if the aging baby boomer population as you've

just described said moving downtown they're talking about Back Bay perhaps and not Downtown Crossing. Well with the exception of the Ritz. Yeah the Ritz is the big elephant there in the room and that has been successful it's a particular market it's a luxury obviously high end market but they they have been successful with the residences there. And there's another another tower off of school street art stone. Yeah. Yep the Archon project. And so you might not compare so far favorably with downtown in terms of share units or popularity. But you do get the sense that the city and the real estate market to some extent is sort of working hard to make this area more appealing whereas Back Bay it sort of comes a little bit more naturally. And in fact the organization that's in charge of sort of promoting that that cordon around town says a lot of stuff going on down there just because the hole is there doesn't mean that you know other businesses are not growing or not being sustained that people are not coming down there

every day all of that stuff is going on. And yet somehow Thomas Grillo that whole Jura eggs everything down. It does It was supposed to be when the project was supposed to be completed two years ago to really transform the area is what the mayor used to say. But it's also interesting to note that there are two residential projects in Downtown Crossing not three minutes from the filing site that did break ground last year Haywood place and Kensington. So that's going to be bring a mix of more luxury housing and the opportunity to make it look great down there. And you're of the opinion that housing really is the key right or some are anyway. Well the whole idea is to have more people and have 24 you know seven at you know access. And viability and it did not escape me that you said Anthony Flint that a lot of towns have turned away from the pedestrian mall situation and gone back to the Newbury Street cars. And that's quite successful. Why. Well Sacramento for example looked at this that this was a sort of a classic

urban renewal era 1970s era intervention where you would in a way sort of try to make it a little bit more suburban or somehow say for our for our cars and more mall like. And that's by you know getting rid of all the cars and all the parking will it turns out cars and parking isn't isn't all bad if you think about Charles Street in Beacon Hill or Newbury Street in Back Bay. You have cars parking they move slowly and you have pedestrians a lots of pedestrian sort of all in the mix. Now it's not that Downtown Crossing is is desolate but some in urban design might suggest that reopening Washington Street to traffic and allowing parking at. Perhaps on both sides would make it feel just a little bit more like a city again and that the advantages of the pedestrian mall. You know religion never turned out quite the

way I think that the urban planners of the 70s era envisioned. I do have to ask you about all these pedestrian malls these like Village Mall like things all out in the suburbs all across the country that everybody is flocking to. So why does it work in Burlington. Let's say and it doesn't work Downtown Crossing. Well yeah it's an interesting case of the sort of the city trying to copy the suburb and and a little bit vice versa and so in some places. But if you want to create you're working with. With with the city to begin with so it's almost like you want to build on on on the positive things that the city has going for it and that's activity that's bustle. That's the urban setting. And I think that's why cities around the country are are taking a look at this idea of trying to sort of imitate the suburbs and say well that's not for us we're going to be distinct and different and more like a city. Well I have said personally that if you have parking that right away because Boston the premium on

parking around here is just crazy. But you know maybe that has something to do with it I'm not an urban planner. We're talking about filings basement in the blighted site where the original basement once was were opening up the lines at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 What would you like to see go in that space if you're a business owner in that area. Tell us how this whole hole in the ground is affecting you. 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. You can write to our Facebook page or send us a tweet. You're listening to eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston Public Radio. WGBH programs exist because of you and UMass Memorial Medical Center and their Euro gynecology team specializing in surgical and nonsurgical solutions for urinary incontinence and other pelvic floor disorders. White papers online at UMass Memorial dot org slash for women.

And pleasure and pain and engaging documentary that unravels the biological sensory and evolutionary mysteries of the two sensations discover the link between pleasure and pain. Tuesday night at 9:00 on WGBH too. When Stephen Hawking was diagnosed with a ls Lou Gehrig's disease in 1963 doctors predicted an early death. But now a 70th birthday party is in the works to celebrate his life and his remarkable contributions to cosmology and theoretical physics. We'll talk with Hawking's biographer Kitty Ferguson of the next FRESH AIR. Point seven. Eighty nine point seven would like to propose a toast to the thousands of sustainers who took part in the WGBH 2012 challenge. Recently more than 2000 of 12 listeners started breaking down their gifts in the monthly installments that automatically renewed thanks to their ongoing generosity. Eighty nine point seven will be canceling the

first on air fundraiser of 2012. So here's to you sustainers and to the many more who follow your lead online at the local coverage of the Iowa caucuses from Iowa Public Radio right here on Boston Public Radio. Join us for this political simulcast tonight here on eighty nine point seven. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just joining us we're talking about filings basement the famous franchise closed its doors for good last week. One of the franchises unforseen legacy is the huge hole where the original basement once was it was torn down in 2008 to make way for a multimillion dollar complex that has not been built. Joining me to talk about how this blighted area is affecting Downtown Crossing are Anthony Flint and Thomas Grillo. Anthony Flint is a fellow at the Lincoln Institute of land policy a think tank based in Cambridge. Thomas Grillo is a real estate editor for The

Boston Business Journal. We also want you to get in on this conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. If you own a business in that area how is it affecting you. What would you like to see go in that space. Would you be a person who would turn to one of the just breaking open ground on the new housing locations down there. Would you want to live there. 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. And you can send us. Message to our Facebook page or a tweet. Thomas Grillo let's get clear about what the hole is because we've been saying the whole and you know all of our minds it means that the filings basement that we all knew and loved down at Downtown Crossing is gone. In fact as you say that building still stands right the original filings basement lives. It's two of the newer buildings one of them I think was built in the late 60s early 70s. Those two buildings have been torn down but they kept the facade of the older buildings because they're on the US historic

landmark. So there is a great amount of potential really I mean extreme there's always potential there. But certainly there's a great amount of potential of preserving some of that history that people have fun memories about and also taking us into a new space by keeping that as a core. Right. There is it's funny because retail today there's no multi level retail Hardley anymore. You know when we were kids we went to finally ends of the I think it was like eight stories you'd go up and there'd be departments on different floors. I understand the target has looked at it and is very interested in it. And I also understand from sources that Equity Residential and AvalonBay Communities are interested in building apartments on the vacant site. So there's still a lot in play. Listen target is a big draw. Even the first lady shops there. So what would target do in that space I'm being serious. You know when they when they have talked about they've talked about making it their flagship store in the city of Boston.

That could be a big draw and even for people living in luxury housing it's you know you can go down and avail yourself of whatever target might have might might bring there. And they I think would be there. You know so far the target people always seem to foster interesting ideas about design right. So there's an opportunity for them to take that building and not tear it down even further but build something around it. Anthony Flint when you think about it it's quite a contrast to the to the sort of standard big box tilt up program the target is perhaps best known for out in the sprawling excerpts. But there have been some very successful very successful urban targets in places like Chicago and Minneapolis and so it can be done. And I think Target is looking at it from a business standpoint that these can be very successful locations. And what do they look like different from the ones that are freestanding elsewhere. Well yeah I mean they're not big boxes there. They have more of the urban character. They're a little bit more sort of subtle or tasteful in some way. And and yes sure they

look like something you might find on Newbury Street. Oh so they're a little hip too. Yeah you know. And after all you know this area thinking about the filings facade and the historic preservation angle I mean this this area is incredibly rich in history and it was it was affected in some spots by urban renewal typically for American cities but Washington Street used to be Newspaper Row the corner of Washington and summer is really you know that's why they call it Downtown Crossing. It's a real crossroads and it's a it's a sort of a classic Renaissance facade with the that clock and that and the Cornus And you know it has sort of a regal almost turn of the century feel down in that area so there's a lot to work with and sort of reinvent for the 21st century. And targets could certainly be part of that.

All right let's take a call Robert from Milton Go ahead please you're on the Calla Crossley Show. Eighty nine point seven. Oh hi hi how are you fine. Good. I have actually a quick question about theory. I know the Silver Line runs through the Washington Street area but I know that to recently hopes it's come all that would connect that area the South Station the felt and the better. OK. Are there any plans to try to reinstate Thomas Grillo do you know the answer to I think that is on hold. I think funding has been a big big problem. As a matter of fact Robert just today the both of our newspapers The Globe and The Herald were talking about the new conversations they're about to take place the public hearings that are going to be scheduled by the MTA to talk about ways in which they can figure out how to in the end raise the fares. But what are they going to do in the interim by maybe cutting off some routes maybe rerouting some of the current ones. All of that may happen so you probably want to be a voice at the public hearings that are ensured of the

Silver Line was also very controversial in the Bay Village neighborhoods. They were just afraid of another Big Dig happening in disrupting their lives. Oh so now not the noise per se of the buses but just the construction destruction. OK. But Anderson has just come off of Washington Street and go underground at some point so remember on Tremont Street in the Boston Common and in the cemetery there. But it was a question of where is the portal where with the portal go. There are ways to to to to do that. It could have been possible. The real money I think is in the connection between the Boylston Street Station currently the Green Line station and South Station which would run underground and that would be really expensive. So we're talking about a major But the caller's instincts are right. This is a crossroads and the world class transit that we have there including maybe someday the Silver Line connected Silver Line. After all the Silver Line service in the dedicated

bus way that goes through the seaport is very success. Oh yeah I've been on I've been on it myself so it's not that you know just because it's a bus it's it's perfectly good it's bus rapid transit and if you know in an ideal world Downtown Crossing would be the place where the Silver Line connected from Dudley and and then went out to the seaport and to the airport. Robert is that something that you would do if that line was extended would you make use of it. That would make you a very big act of transportation I've lived in Europe and I've been very impressed with their transportation systems by just monorails. Trent So I think it's very important that we have and try to still keep cars on the traffic. All right well I guess we'll see you at those public hearings and. Yeah all right thanks a lot for the call.

You're listening to eighty nine point seven. WGBH an online at WGBH dot org. I'm Kelly Crossley. We're talking about filings basement and the blighted area and Downtown Crossing where the famous shopping destination used to be. I'm joined by Anthony Flint a fellow at the Lincoln Institute of land policy and Thomas Grillo the real estate editor for The Boston Business Journal. You can join the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 seventy 8 7 7 3 0 1. Eighty nine seventy one of the other movements happening in Boston which may go against Anthony Flint your idea about more cars more Newbery like situation is it a Mayor Menino is very big on the bike thing and they're you know snatching up parking spaces everywhere much to the disgust of some people who would like to park in some congested areas. Now I'm for I'm for the bikes I love the bikes. But a long mass AF Come on now that's giving everybody a break I got to say I know I get hate mail but. I guess. But don't you think you can have it all you can have it all.

The mix of pedestrians and bicyclists and slowly moving cars and cars that are that are parking in metered on street metered parking spaces you can have it all food trucks you can have a lot of food there's plenty of room on Washington Street and you could leave Summer Street just a pedestrian mall if you like. But Washington Street there's plenty of sort of public realm to work with and you could have a bikeshare stand along with those parking spaces and. It would just I think create the sense of potentially more activity all around. So how and how well you're talking how do we get to the point where something that seemed to be workable at the time. Thirty nine storey office. You know housing mix for seven hundred fifty million dollars as Thomas has said. Really is behind the times. And now we're stuck with this in trying to figure out how to move forward. And you. And now at the point it seems to me that you have to take a giant leap forward it's no longer sort of baby steps because you just you

both have just described how expensive it would be just to tackle the transportation part of it. And we have the rudiments of that already in place. Well I mean there are a lot of moving parts the commercial office market is is one thing I do think that the residential living downtown trend is here to stay. So I think that that is foundational in some ways. And then you have the city in the B R A and the sort of the economic development and planning dimension. The good news is is that Boston like Chicago or Washington D.C. or Portland Oregon Seattle Washington is really continues in many ways to enjoy a renaissance. There's a bit been a bit of a return to the city and an appreciation of all the amenities that are available in a city. So there's there's there's a lot going for Downtown Crossing. I think the economic cycles have always you

know it's just always a reality when you're trying to engage in this kind of city building the public sector does its part by the private sector. Is that the. Mercy of the the economic cycles another example of course is the seaport. We all thought that fans here would would have been developed by now. It's just really getting under way. But there's promise that the seaport and the waterfront area will will look very different to be very active and really be a new part of the city in perhaps 10 or 20 or so sometimes these things take a long time. So is that commitment vision combination. What is it. I mean it seems to me that timing Thomas Grillo is very important and I'm serious about the transportation thing. I love the TV but we're you know it's sorely in need of huge fixes on that. And it I look back and I think was there a time when a small fix or two would have prevented us from getting to the point now where we're the thing is about to collapse. And it's a

major draw for the city. Well you know it seems like years ago cash was not a problem. For example this green line extension that's taking so long. I mean it should be done by now it certainly certainly should be under construction. But financing these projects in this in this environment been extremely difficult. And I can't be underestimated even looking at a long term benefit. Absolutely. So here we are with casinos long term benefit or something. But you know but seriously I just it's interesting choices OK Marie from Melton Go ahead please you're on the Kelly Crossley Show eighty nine point seven. Hi thanks for taking my call I just have a question. I can Are there any spaces in the downtown area that will be set aside for small business. And I'll take my answer off the air. You mean in a revived downtown that may include OK and filling in the hole and moving forward Thomas Well there's a fair amount of vacancies right now in Downtown Crossing. I don't know exactly what she means by small businesses well meaning that Marie if I understand you that if there is some master plan as Anthony says we need to really

stop and think OK how we're going to do this if we get back the space that Fernando has not done anything with and make it a part of a larger plan. Will that as a part of the plan have some piece dedicated to small business so that everything is not in Target. Great to have a target maybe as an anchor but am I and am I explaining what you mean. Yes and you know frankly the rents are so expensive that small businesses are priced out of that area. So I would really like to know Are there any you know are there any spaces in. Which you someone could get a small business in there maybe even at a cheaper cost. Good question. THOMAS How do you that's a great question I don't imagine that if they do build something at the filing site that it would be affordable because they're going to have to try to get the rents to meet the costs of the construction. Even around the filings that you know it's still very pricey. But you see terms and this goes back to what Emory stay on with us. This goes back to what Anthony was talking about when I think about a Portland and I love Portland. The

reason I love Portland is that you go there and it's not a court of mall ization of all the little stores there are all these interesting little small businesses there. Yeah they're the big bike community two huge bike community but you've got some cars. It's it's unique in the way it presents itself to you it makes you want to go there and see what's going on in Portland. Am I not right. You're absolutely right and small businesses and locally owned businesses are an incredibly important part of that and it really really when it comes down to it this is a role for the city and for the mayor. In other cities like Portland or Vancouver British Columbia they they go about things a little differently in terms of negotiating with developers making sure that there is perhaps a set aside of some sort that's more affordable rent for a locally owned business. Of course affordable housing always always a big piece of any such negotiations but there's a recognition that when you're doing this

kind of city building there's a lot of money to be made. And so this is the point where you engage in these negotiations with developers and set the stage you know for years and years to come and which is why it's so sort of frustrating to look at this site because this apparent lack of leverage with this particular developer but in other cities they take this moment and they make sure that there is a policy like that in place to the extent possible. Marie do you have a small business or would you be interested in locating it there. I absolutely would be I grew up in this town and love this town I've gone downtown all my life I remember when they were little vendors and as you got off the train and you know it was so vibrant and exciting and I really feel that you know if you will. Live in the city you grew up in the city you're vested in this community. You should have the opportunity to be able to make money and have your business and not be priced out in your own city.

Thank you very much for the comment I totally agree. I also I think just draws people to it does definitely draws people to downtown. I mean I have you know delayed a flight and gone across town in some cities to really check out some interesting small businesses because they're unique. You don't see them everywhere and the more they're at these malls with the exact same stores there is an opportunity for us to build on the kind of unique character that Boston had and certainly the Boston and the downtown filings basement was right Thomas Absolutely. I think it's very hard for a small business person you know unless you're a big chain for the most part it's very difficult to afford these rent so new Green Street or Washington Street. OK well let me ask you a question because you're the you're the guy that tracks the money going on down there in the real estate money anyway Thomas Grillo. If we're bringing in breaking ground on these new luxury housing and people are buying them and they can afford to buy them. I'm telling you the people that are moving in there are looking for something interesting you know TO VISIT TO GO TO Maybe they want maybe Starbucks is probably the one store that we can figure is going to be

there because it and that's not particularly unique it's everywhere right but in terms of every place else down there those folks want something interesting. That's why I moved downtown to get to the to the hustle and bustle in the beehive activity that Anthony is talking about it just looks like everyplace else then nothing can they bring some force to bear to help perhaps create a policy about the small businesses or express to get more interest in the city in that while the planning is going on. That's a good question because that is a neighborhood that's still emerging. There are people that live there and when I talk to them they don't talk about you know specialty boutiques. They say hey can we get a supermarket. I mean they want exactly what a dry cleaner. I mean these are folks that see this as their neighborhood. And when there's a you know more folks coming down to rent these apartments I think that more pressure can be brought. And I bet you when they talk about a supermarket they're talking about a unique supermarket. I'm serious and not you know something that you might get on every corner even though you know you need one that you get on every corner but just something that's a little bit different that you go out of your way for. So that provides an opportunity

for folks as well. I mean I hope somebody is listening to this because. It works. I mention this. We had a conversation on this show some months ago about what happened in my hometown of Memphis Tennessee is old hotel. I mean decrepit downtown in the serious downtown that we're talking about falling down and I'm talking about a little bit of. And it had a long storied history and some private developers took it over and invested. I'm sure a fair amount of money and it's a luxury hotel. It is jammed. It's been jammed since then. They built everything off of the history. So I think you know there's so many other examples of what can happen if there is some vision involved. And it distresses me that in this town with all the brains that we have over there at the Lincoln Land Trust and the people. We got nothing going on here. Sometimes we get in our way a lot I mean even if you take the the the. There was a long battle over establishing a business improvement district you know this. This is done in

cities across the country. But here you know there was there was a lot of fighting about you know whether the Boston Police Department would patrol here or there and concern among the various business owners business improvement district sort of a classic way to have an additional role in addition to government which you know sometimes can't can't keep things as as tidy and clean and stylish as one would like. But the area does have a lot going for it. Let's not forget all the theaters the paramount right there. Yeah on Washington Street that's right there for downtown 24/7 residents too to enjoy Chinatown the Rose Kennedy Greenway is just a short distance away. So let's not forget it. It's no slouch in terms of these interesting amenities and it's a city and it has a cultural richness to begin with.

So from you from each of you just very briefly your vision if you could do it if you could wave a wand. Thomas Grillo and make it happen. What would you see there. Well be great to have something that they envision only sort of a downsized version of it. You know there's no reason why there couldn't be a small instead of a giant thirty nine storey you know residential tower a smaller tower a small boutique hotel. And you know room for a lot of retail because it is still one of the primary shopping areas downtown and you and the flea. Well I think a renewed commitment to planning policies like this small business policy we discussed locally owned businesses in a recognition that the sort of the principle of value capture which is this idea that the developers again making a fair amount of money and there's a certain return to the public for all the public investment that has gone down that has happened in the in that area and elsewhere in the city that developers themselves can contribute more to creating

amenities and into the public realm. So a little bit of more of a recognition of that in this area I think would help. All right see a target maybe. I'm Kelli Crossley we've been talking about violence basement and the blighted area in downtown crossing where the original basement was until it was torn down. In 2008 I've been joined by Anthony Flint and Thomas Grillo Thomas Grillo is the real estate editor for The Boston Business Journal Anthony Flint is a fellow at the Lincoln Institute of land policy. He's also the author of Wrestling with Moses how Jane Jacobs took on New York's master builder and Transformed the American city. We continue the filings conversation with the filmmakers behind the documentary Voices from the basement. Thank you to you. You should have Tony's. Number. I'm. Sure. This program is made possible thanks to you and Blake and associates attorneys

focused on individual matters individual advice and individual solutions. They listen they understand the issues you face when assisting a vulnerable loved one. More info at Blake law dot com. And Portsmouth Abbey School in coastal Rhode Island. Providing a rigorous academic curriculum in a caring co-educational Catholic Benedictine boarding school environment. You can visit Portsmouth Abbey dot org for more information. Next time on the world. A political prisoner in Burma. The government calls him an ordinary criminal. A friend honors his activism and laments his imprisonment. He already lived in solitary confinement. So my friends no good for the whole family. It is so difficult for us who might be. Behind bars in Burma. Next time on the world. Coming up at 3:00 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH. The New York Times. Cause of an instant classic. According to Variety it's compulsively watchable from the get go. It's Downton Abbey from Masterpiece Classic

the world's most popular drama of socialites and Serbians premieres its second season this Sunday Jan. 8 on WGBH television. Set aside your copy of The Complete second season on DVD before it airs. By making a gift of $84 online at WGBH dot org. Context beyond the headline issues you want to know more about. Stories you'll want to share. News and depth online. At WGBH news dot org. I'm Cally Crossley. Last week filings basement closed its doors for good and they also closed a chapter of Boston's history. Joining me to pay tribute to this beloved Boston institution are Michael and Susan Ed brill. They are the force behind the documentary Voices from the basement. Michael bizzaro is a filmmaker and both of them are the executive producers of this film. Thank you both for joining

us. Thanks for having us. Before we dive into our conversation I want to just dive into a little trip down memory lane from your documentary Voices from the basement. And here's how we remember the magic of filings basement. You never knew what you will find and I would want time to grow. Friends from school. And I said I want to look at this coat is fabulous it was a rabbit had a belt and I left it at the collar and I said LOOK AT THIS TO LOVE THIS. He said Susan it's back and it was a bathrobe and I bought it. I'm worried and so the word bisect made. Eyebrow Shockey Green spoke up for some $5 dollar. And what I brought home to my kids my kids my Novis me the comedian. On the. Tonight Show. Our son. Is a pretty good athlete. A lefty. And we used to play catch. He'd pitch to me I was a casual stroll through the basement. But this is the first time I'd ever seen a set of. Baseball and there was a catch.

For five bucks. I still have it. That was Channel 5 consumer reporter Susan Warneke. Mayor Thomas Menino and Governor Mike Dukakis. Voices from the basement there were some really good voices from the basement. You have much more in your documentary Let me start with you Michael. At the time that you all were putting this together you didn't have any idea that the filings basement downtown was not coming back. It was business as usual. We went down there and they were even cautious about us having cameras in there because they didn't want people to feel uncomfortable if they were changing in the aisles or whatever. But as it progressed we saw that the transition happening and we made sure that we were there for the final days and we were hoping to be there for the grand opening but that didn't happen. You capture some voices of people who are no longer with us who you know. So you really got their last conversation about this wonderful institution. Yeah. Sue had done a lot of research on the people who had worked there. And

we were really happy to get those people early on to tell their stories. And I think that's what kind of sort of makes it like a an encapsulation of memories that you can't go. We can go in and produce this today. It wouldn't be the same. So we're glad we got those people and we did. And so one of the reasons you were able to do it you were a therapist in. Talking to people about their experiences and you of course know better than anybody else as a professional the importance of telling a story and capturing those experiences. So what made you know that this was exactly what you want to be doing. Well my grandmother had worked there for over 35 years. And the reason that I wanted to do this was to pay tribute to her. And so when Michael and I set out to do this I actually had been working on it for four years just doing research and then after interviewing many filmmakers really wanted to work with Michael. The idea was to honor my grandmother and all

the people who had worked there. And this incredible institution that taught us so much about the psychology of community about the psychology of working together the filings brothers were incredible in promoting things that made it a working environment that people wanted to be in. So for me the psych the original psychological piece was to honor my grandmother and who sort of I was fascinated with this most famous bargain basement in the world. I had no idea what the ending of the story was going to be at least at this point in time. What do you think made this a uniquely Boston institution. There's no other place like it in the world literally. The automatic markdown system. Where after a number of days a very high priced items from all over the world were discounted and as a result of that discount after number of days

people got into hiding items it became a whole game a whole hont fun and a challenge to see how much you could get a something for code from Neiman Marcus for as little as possible. But there was no other place like it in the world. And I think it was the chicken or the egg thing too because it was the first and there were a lot of copycats and everybody's got a Bargain Outlet. Now there's one across the street. But because it was Boston I think it made it a destination. And that's that's what was unique about it. That's why people think of Boston and filings basement because it originated here like a lot of things did. And the other point about the psychology is that everyone has an experience. Everyone has a filings basement story. I went to Ireland for Russia. Actually it's interesting. It was a what it was like to attend a synagogue there. And what did I end up talking about. I

ended up talking about someone's experience shopping in filings basement while I was in synagogue in Ireland. So people have connections connections with their families to that place when they shop there. One of the things that has just been you know I have to be doubly devastating for you too at the time that you were finishing your documentary as you said you realize gee there's going to be this whole year. It's not coming back. But then last month a filings basement closed its doors for good we were still in that sort of it's coming back or and this is not the first time that filings basement had disk declared bankruptcy is the third time some people thought I think some version would come back. Yeah we were shocked that it happened but I guess in this economy you know things happen. And one of the things that could still happen because the now that they're gone the intellectual property is going to be auction so someone could theoretically buy that name filings basement and go back into that space.

Very possibly it's possible. Yeah. Well we learned from I guess in the first segment of this show that the actual core building is still stands right. That's important to recognize is the other buildings that didn't. And one would hope that whomever would take this over would keep that fix to figure out how to make it a part of a new design in that building is going to be 100 years old this year. Wow. The original basement was across the street and then they moved over here in one thousand twelve so that building is what was the original basement they expanded it in the 150 so where the hole is. That was the addition but if someone restored that building I mean we have ideas of what to do there and we're even thinking that might be our next documentary. The new beginning just like the greening of Boston after the great fire in the 1870s. So I think there's a lot of potential down there and I don't want to. Rule out the possibility of a filings basement going back in there because if there's a visionary out there it could be done. Well here's something that we've lost that I think is really this. This is makes me so sad and that's

the running of the brides So from your documentary Voices of from the basement mother Lydia Domenici and her daughter Amy remember the running of the brides where women stormed the basement in search of a dream wedding gown that came down the day she watch we're not sure if we have to get security just somebody sure did here just. To tell him to. Say oh I was. Right. I was going to take. Him no shame discussed because they really don't. OK well that wasn't the running of the brides but that was an interesting part of the history of of the base and I want to try to get the running of the brides clip up in just a second. Lemme know when we have it. Sure. That is really the real running occurred with the early sales but the running of the brides came from the running for two pairs of shoes for a dollar a day.

Yeah man no one really appreciates that that the running the stampede occurred from the time that they had sales this summer but those wedding dresses that really gives it an extra I think it's true and it really did I think was the beginning of this whole Black Friday craze. Ofc I think you're I think you're absolutely right. All right here's the running again Barry. And she said mom I'm going to the police and I saw this guy. Well if you could see so I looked at it Miss Bell. We want came home and she said dear that looks just really like you want to come home. She should take the bag. And I said hey it's dirty you know we were there. Michael does not go with me and my little sister said I am Mike. I mean that the dress. Boy that's a huge loss it feels i just goes through me. You know we we talk about this space in very emotional terms as you've heard in it as we hear in your documentary

was filings basement. The one that you capture that history the soul of downtown Boston. Absolutely and I think that the DVD of the documentary is the only way that people can both grieve and hold on to this place where they have so many memories because no one really saw what was coming. And it is sort of inside a sense of loss of control that they didn't have time to sort of grieve appropriately that it was closing that that it was never going to be there again. And that's why I'm so happy that we did do this documentary because people can hold onto the memories through watching it. And Michael you've got some ideas what should go in that space. Well I think it should be the center of the hub of Boston when people it should be a destination like filings basement was and that's where when you come to Boston you start there and you can go off in any direction 360 degrees

the waterfront the north and the common. So I would like to see the city take it over and redevelop it in a way that's unique. Is there a building there what does that mean. Yeah. Well I think you work with the filing building and then you do something with that space I think a parking garage underneath and then maybe a pavilion on top with with maybe I don't know if you remember where is Boston. That was a big attraction in the 70s and it gave the history of Boston and things to do in Boston and I sort of see something like that in really creating an environment that's like city walk out in California where it's where it's a fun place it's a destination it's not just there's a lot of empty buildings there. I can't imagine a sky rise there right now but maybe something that that's useful that. And really. Revolutionary for Boston something that hasn't been done and we have some ideas that would like to present to the mayor to talk to about the possibilities. Very exciting ideas. Oh excellent but I think similar to the

basement. It would be something creative in how to vitalize the city again. I think it's really important instead of just putting up a target is to have some vision and the community the larger community of Boston somehow get involved in this. So people are excited about creating something that represents the amazing diversity the amazing abilities of all the students who go to the hundreds of schools that are here that can that just like people came to Boston through the basement. They can come for something new. And that building was designed to be a hotel if it ever didn't work out is as a department store something unique to Boston I'm looking forward to your ideas. I hope they're implemented. We've been marking the end of the famous fashion franchise filings basement. I've been speaking with Michael Varro and Susan Eberle about their documentary film voices from the basement to learn more about the film visit voices from the basement dot com. You

get on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash go across lead follow us on Twitter and become a fan of the Kalak Ross Lee show on Facebook. This is the Kelly Crossley Show a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.