WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley This is the Calla Crossley Show. We're ringing in the New Year with a look at our enduring fascination with the new adapting to new circumstances is so crucial to our survival that our love of the new is actually hardwired into our brains. But in the 21st century where we are encountering more new gadgets and information than ever before. How do we distinguish the new things we need to master in order to survive from the novelties that are leaving us chronically distracted. This is the subject of Winifred Gallagher's latest book new understanding the need for novelty and change. We'll talk to her about the history of adapting to new things from the age of reason to the digital revolution. We'll also look at how we can effectively steer through this world of rapid growth and constant change. Up next navigating the 24 hour news cycle. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying President Obama has

laid out a new military strategy designed to contend with hundreds of billions of dollars in budget cuts. It shifts national security priorities including more emphasis on counterterrorism maintaining a nuclear deterrent and cyber warfare. Mr. Obama also says Asia will be a bigger priority in the U.S. military strategy. Now we're turning the page on a decade of war. Three years ago we had some 180000 troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Today we've cut that number in half. And as the transition in Afghanistan continues more of our troops will continue to come home. But the administration acknowledges that a smaller military will mean more risks underscoring that challenge. Fresh violence in Iraq just weeks after U.S. troops are the last of U.S. troops pulled out of that country today. A series of bomb attacks killed at least 67 people including dozens of Shiite pilgrims in the southern city of Nasiriyah North Korea's nuclear program remains a top

concern for Washington as well a U.S. envoy has met with South Korean officials. To talk about North Korea's new leadership from Seoul the kowtow reports on comments by U.S. Secretary of State Kurt Campbell Assistant Secretary of State Kurt Campbell Campbell met with Chinese officials in Beijing before meeting with South Korea's foreign minister Kim Sung. Both agreed improved relations between the two Koreas is essential to effectively responding to North Korea's new leadership. Kim spoke through a translator for a visit to the modern China is also waiting to see what kind of position and what kind of official position the regime will take in the future and I think our stance will also be similar to that. South Korea says it is open to holding talks with North Korea if Pyongyang gives up its nuclear programs. For NPR News I'm Lisa cattle in Seoul the number of Americans filing new claims for unemployment benefits has declined further dropping nearly 4 percent last week. New claims for benefits were down to a seasonally adjusted three hundred

seventy two thousand. NPR's Greg Wyndham says another report out today shows a larger than expected surge in hiring in the private sector last month. That report by the payroll processing firm ADP says three hundred twenty five thousand new jobs were added by private sector employers in December. That's the largest monthly gain in a year. Stuart Hoffman chief economist with PNC Financial says the trends are positive. Fortunately fiery determination is. Down and higher it is up and Hoffman says he expects further improvement in the coming months because more and more people are finding jobs. But while Hoffman expects the unemployment rate to decline gradually he does not think it will drop below 8 percent this year. Craig Wyndham NPR News Washington. Dow's down 22 points to twelve thousand three ninety seven. This is NPR News. Retailers are posting strong December sales among those beating analysts estimates Macy's the buckle and Limited Brands which use big holiday discounts to attract shoppers However the discount giant Target didn't do as

well as analysts had thought. The company has cut its earnings outlook. Adoption charities in Britain say a rising number of birth parents are using social networking including Facebook. To illegally track down their children. Larry Miller reports from London this is causing considerable distress adoption UK says the problem of unplanned contact with birth parents is greatest with teenagers who are adopted after being removed from their homes. The group's director Jonathan Pearce says those born in the 1990s would only have been removed for sexual or physical abuse or severe neglect after being tracked down on Facebook by their biological families. Pierce says relationships with adoptive families are frequently broken down with the children developing severe emotional problems. The British Association for Adoption and Fostering found 53 percent of adopted children used Facebook or other unofficial means to trace birth parents a quarter describe the outcome as unsettling. For NPR News

I'm Larry Miller in London. Republican candidates campaigning this day in New Hampshire where primaries will be held next week we're seeing U.S. stocks mixed this hour at last check the Dow is down 18 points at twelve thousand four hundred in trading of about 2 billion shares. Nasdaq composite index up 14 points or more than half a percent a 26 62 Laxmi saying NPR News Washington. Support for NPR comes from the Wallace Foundation. A source of ideas for improving education added Richmond for children both in and out of school. Wallace Foundation dot org. Good afternoon I'm Cally Crossley. We're marking the new year with a conversation about how we humans have an ingrained love of the new. Some of us love new things and change more than others. But the bottom line is that in order to thrive as a society we need to have a healthy sense of curiosity and an ability to adapt to

new situations. Joining me to talk about this is writer Winifred Gallagher. Her latest book is new understanding our need for novelty and change when a pretty happy new year. Same to you. You say in your book that we are hardwired as humans to embrace the new to seek the new. As a matter of fact this is not some psychological thing. There may be some elements of it but it's biological Can you explain. Yes it's really woven into our into our human nature between 800000 years ago. One hundred ninety five thousand years ago when we emerged as the species Homo sapiens our native Africa we are all Africans are native Africa was under when a long series of really cataclysmic climate changes and geophysical changes we'd have long periods of monsoon like rains when everything turned into a

tropical forest in very deep plaits lakes. Then we would have long periods of extreme drought when those lakes would dry up to dry holes and many species including at least a handful of human groups very much like ourselves went extinct they weren't able to adjust to these cataclysmic changes and we could and that really is as far as I'm concerned. Just just as we call ourselves Homo sapiens we could call ourselves Homo Novus. The primates that can engage with new things and adjust to change. In fact you make a distinction between or there is science that you're speaking about that makes it a quite a stark line distinction between animals of the lower species and we humans of the higher species because animals of the lower species do not like change. Well some like. Some like it a little more than others but we are certainly unique

in not only can we adjust to change. Pretty well we actually many of us delight in change and enjoy it engage with it pursue it. We are the species that we were designed to walk on land. Yet we can explore the bottom of the ocean and walk on the moon. This is really a wonderful it's really I think our unique human genius to be able to. Our fascination with the new Really Powers us through our whole lives from the time we were little babies to learn it's the stick that drives us down the hard road of learning and creating and inventing. And beyond that it's really about a basic survival that the need to embrace the new is not so much because I just like new stuff but as we might think about it right now in this time. But really it's really tied to a basic need to be able to survive and in order to do that you have to understand what is new around you.

It's not just it it's not just him. It's not so much embracing the new as being able to engage with the new weather whether you want to or not. And as you point out it is absolutely crucial to survival in newborn infants. Just a few hours old. If they if they're shown pictures a series of pictures they will stare at an image they've never seen before for 41 seconds before looking away. And then as if you repeat that image. They get bored and they stop looking at it. It's detecting novelty and change is absolutely crucial to your do your daily survival if you are not alert to novelty and change when you're driving especially if I may say appear in your Boston. You're not you're going to miss that car swerving into your lane. You're going to miss that change and you're in your physical report from your doctor that shows your your bad cholesterol went up. You're going to miss that drop in a stock that you've invested in. We must just sheer survival as well as our ability to thrive really depends on picking up on novelty and change and that's why we're so attuned to them now.

You have a name for this. I don't know if this is a name you made up but explain the name and what it means exactly. Well I call it the Ophelia which simply means Neo is Latin for a new and filia means. Love love of the new. And this actually is an old term it's been around for at least a hundred years it's been used in many different disciplines. Now you see it mostly with internet activity and so forth. I think it's just a less awkward way of describing this. This facility we have as a species we are all Neo files as a species. However as individuals we vary greatly. In the the intensity that we express our new Ophelia so that about 15 percent of us feel is really a spectrum and at one extreme we have about 15 percent of us who I call neo feely acts. These are the people who are extreme novelty seekers when they see something new they are likely to think of it

as a source of rewards a resource they want to engage with it. I'm thinking here of a course like the mountain men who settled the West and the astronauts who go into space but also the people have changed our lives. Steve Jobs go to Winfrey. I mean there's a long list of people that push the envelope for the rest of us and take risks. So the upside is they find resources and expand the human experiences. The downside is that they can sometimes take risks and be attracted to be tempted to engage in some dodgy behavior because exciting I mean. Yeah yeah. Former President Bill Clinton I think is a good example I would I would I would guess I haven't seen his genetic profile but I would guess he's a neo feely act. You know he was he's even even people from the opposite party said he was the greatest politician of the age. He had many great gifts as as we all know he also

come to some not so wise choices from his desire to engage with new things I think his family probably felt that. So that's one group. On one extreme and the other extreme are the folks that I call neo Fobes. These are this is also interestingly about 15 percent both in human and in primate populations of people who instead of regarding novelty as something new as a resource they see it as a risk. They're hyper sensitive to risk and the danger that is inherent in something new it's not something new and unknown you know you don't really know how it's going to turn out. And these people are very attuned to the risks. And if we had had more of them on Wall Street we might have avoided. Terrible economic recession so that if you think about the group the reason of course 70 percent of us are somewhere in that big middle ground. Maybe leaning a little bit to the new feely after action a little bit to the new phobic direction. But because we

are less programmed biologically genetically programmed to respond to new things and with sort of a knee jerk response like the neo Fobes in the neo feely X we have a little more behavioral flexibility we can say like when something new when the latest wonder phone comes out instead of buying it right away we might say I think I'll wait for the next generation and for the price to come down where the need to feel like it's going to get it right away and then you know folks going to say No I'm sticking with my same old gadget because I don't want to learn the new gadget. The wonderful thing is that even though these different types can all have costs for the individual the feeling I can get himself into trouble with risky behavior the neo phobic could turn into sort of a worrywart and maybe feel life getting a little dull. The different types are all great for us as a population. Nature ensures our survival as a group not as individuals. So if you think about I think about our our ancient forebears in Africa. Looking for new resources

maybe food is running low and they have like a huge raging white water river and you have the neo feely accent come on let's let's go across the river look there could be like really great food over there all kinds of things and it'll be fun. It'll be really fun crossing the white water and then you have the new folks saying Are you nuts. We have no idea what's over there we're some of us are going to drown crossing the river at least we know what's going on here let's stay here. And then you have the population in the middle being informed by both points of view and hopefully coming together as a group and making a good decision as is how our government is supposed to work. OK now you get in the danger well if you're like me and you wondered where you were on that spectrum Neal filia feely act or Neil phobe there's a quiz you can take and we've linked it to our Facebook page. That's Facebook dot com slash Calla Crossley Show talk about where I fell on the chart. Oh I see. Very often I have to guess what I want to hear your guess. Here's a question so we're at the New Year as we've said because I greeted you with Happy New Year

and we know that we're hardwired to look for this new thing even if some individuals among us may go to the other end of the spectrum when you have something that in our culture is kind of a new slate like a new year. Though even people who are toward the neo phobic and sort of gravitate back to the new into the NE Ophelia because you want to be able to really pump up that drive to embrace the new. That's a really interesting question. What it makes what it makes me think about immediately is the fact that in addition to certain biological differences and particularly genes that govern the very important neurotransmitter called dopamine which is makes you want things want to pursue things. There are also very strong social influences on how we regard the new. And for example for much of history the Greeks and the Romans and especially when when the church came along. They discouraged curiosity as almost a vice

you weren't supposed to question the status quo or to challenge the teachings of the king or the Church or of the aristocracy or the hierarchy until the eighteenth century when all of a sudden curiosity became a virtue. It was your right as a free person to to ask questions and wonder why I things were the way they were. And I think that's a good example of how cultural attitudes can affect how we think. And but to your question about New Year's resolutions. Yeah. My suspicion would be that the media phobic people would be thinking darn I have to make. This. And. I really like I'm happy with my life the way it is and then maybe the NIO feel X or are going to make 10 resolutions and maybe keep one or two of them. All right. My guest is writer Winifred Gallagher we're discussing her latest book its new understanding our need for novelty and change. You can join the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 where do you place yourself on the spectrum of NI

Ophelia. Do you like change. Do you like taking in new things are you finding it hard to keep up with the digital Joneses. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 8 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and you can send us a note to our Facebook page or a tweet. You're listening to the Calla Crossley Show on eighty nine point seven. WGBH Boston Public Radio. This program is made possible thanks to you. And direct Tire and Auto Service Watertown Norwood Peabody and Natick providing Tire and Auto Repair since 1974 where you can get ready for the winter months. Not just service customer service direct tire dotcom.

And Egypt's golden empire in ancient days a succession of pharaohs want Egypt unimaginable wealth widespread influence and an enduring cultural legacy. Watch the warrior pharaohs Thursday night at 8:00 on WGBH too. This sketch comedy series Portlandia begin season 2 this week on IFC on the next FRESH AIR we talk with co-creators and costars Fred Armisen of Saturday Night Live and Carrie Brownstein of the indie rock bands. Slater Kenny and Wild Flag join us. This afternoon to hear an eighty nine point seven. WGBH 2012 is finally here and with it comes the end of WGBH is 2012. In recent months more than two

thousand and twelve eighty nine point seven listeners started supporting this station sustainers breaking down their gifts in the monthly installments that automatically renewed thanks to their ongoing generosity. Eighty nine point seven will be canceling the first fundraiser of 2012. Start your own sustaining membership online at WGBH dot org. Being out of work can raise a host of financial and emotional issues. Tackling the social side of unemployment this week on Marketplace Money. Sunday afternoons at 4:00 here on WGBH radio. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just joining us my guest is writer Winifred Gallagher. Her latest book is new understanding our need for novelty and change. You can catch her tonight at 7 at Brookline Booksmith. But right now you can join this conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 seventy 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. Are you having a hard time to go shooting what new things to

take in and what new things to ignore. Do you feel overwhelmed in this digital age. Or are you thriving in it. 8 7 7 3 0 one eighty nine seventy eight 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and you can write to our Facebook page or send us a tweet. Talking about just what to take in and what to leave out you make a really strong point in your book that in the beginning of the 1980s the amount of new information coming out all of us quadrupled. Talk about that a little bit. This is really the perfect storm for our for novelty seeking species like ourselves. We are now suddenly really a very short period of time in history certainly since that even if you put the beginning of the information age back to the 1960s that historically that's a very short period of time and we are being deluged with orders of magnitude more novelty than before. Consumer products yes even like the number of items and in a grocery store. I remember when when sneakers

were red or blue or loafers were brown or black I mean now it's like how many choices do you have. But but especially what has increased is the amount of information we process. We are now as you mentioned crunching every day four times more words than we did just in 1980 and there is no sawing that it's going to stop or even slow down. And that is we are we are processing that with the same old brain that we had back in Africa one hundred ninety five thousand years ago. So that is to me it's a perfect storm situation. We have the novelty seeking species and the now seemingly unlimited amount of novelty. So it's really going to be up to us to put put on the brakes and figure out how we're going to negotiate. Well their lives will just be distracted all the time. Right. And without becoming a neophyte where you design anything that's right. That's right. Let's take a call Brandon from Boston. Go ahead please. You're on the Kelly Crossley Show. Eighty nine point seven. Good afternoon. I'm just calling about this Gallagher comment

regarding the Middle East to the sort of the history of growth and change in science and technology. I mean history major at Northeastern University so this may seem as if I myself I'm a neophyte but the idea that the church sort of suppressed science and that in fact it was a non-question society is a bit odd at least to me from what I recall. Roger Bacon was a Franciscan monk he was at the press and he was actually encouraged by the church to study optics. He was discovering he discovered why this made up of all the different colors of light. Hundred years before you ever thought of it. So I understand the point about change and growth and how to cope with it. But at the same time I feel it's more of the cooking process. Thank you. Interest in this must be the last of the good information.

All right hold on one second Brendan Let's let Winifred respond to you. Go ahead. That's a good point I would also I guess I would counter with Galileo who didn't do so nearly as well with the church. I'm not I'm not saying it's like an either or situation but generally until the Enlightenment there was a feeling that there were authorities who were in place who knew what was what and who knew why we came into being. There was not even getting into Charles Darwin and his views and it became with the Enlightenment it became the person the person's right and and almost obligation to figure out things for themselves and this really in franchised it changed the society it created the middle class. It enfranchised women it allowed women within by by the 19th century many more women becoming educated people. There was really a big change. That's why it's called The Age of Enlightenment but I'm not trying to suggest that

we've made no progress until that point certainly that's a point well taken. I was just told just for a bit of a historical persecution as well because the whole idea of personal. To enfranchise them in the night you put your hand on the stand that just the way you sort of sit in front of me for a moment. Yeah I think you're perhaps a little simplistic. Thank you thank you very much Brenda for the call. You're listening to eighty nine point seven WGBH an online of WGBH dot org. I'm Kelly Crossley. My guest is Winifred Gallagher. We're discussing her latest book new understanding our need for novelty and change. You can join the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1. Eighty nine seventy one a friend has just laid out that those folks who are those individuals who are very interested in the new Who were you know beyond our normal hard drive are Neal feely feely X and those who are on the opposite in not so interested or maybe issuing

it. Our Neil folks and find out which one you are you can take a quiz we have a link to it on our Facebook page. That's Facebook dot com slash Kelly Crossley Show. So one of the reasons for doing this book is because there is some consequences at hand if you are a constant new seeker if it will if you if you will. Somebody said that you can become addicted to a high of experiencing a new thing all the time. And maybe that's what parents see in kids when kids say after five minutes I'm bored. You know something didn't happen so now I'm bored. How can it be. But beyond that I mean that's a temporary thing quite harmful to you. Well we've we've I think we've all of us have our threshold for boredom has been has been lowered by all the men of the overstimulation that we all receive just even leaving aside the

problem of kids who are multitasking for hours every day when they should be learning. So you know that's that's an issue right there. Addiction. I think this studies of whether you can be addicted to electronic information have not yet been done I think they should be done and they will be done. But very very serious scientists have said to me that they think it's a very strong possibility that you that certain people not everybody certain people can actually be vulnerable to addiction to information the same and the comparison they draw which is something that has been very well studied is gambling. And the folks who get this when they're when they're missing their their drug in quotes when they can't have their devices you see that when you when you travel on airplanes you know the captain says Turn off your devices and people are frantically like stabbing them and I think Alec Baldwin had to be hauled off the airplane because he couldn't turn it off as I thought. I mean when

when when someone experiences the feelings of withdrawal the anxiety and the misery of not being able to turn on their devices and access their information. I think that's a that's a it's a red flag. James from Sandwick Go ahead please you're on the Calla Crossley Show. Eighty nine point seven. Hi for me. Actually I just I was just talking to you over there. I just threw it back to you. That's a close call the dieting created by what you just mentioned and also just the feeling that you constantly have to have a plate of greatness. You know those are the latest product I would do and but I'm at work and have all these I have less time so code is going to be a laptop for the breach. I'm just bought is going to wonder you know if I mean

how did we do it before this. And how much better is it now. I don't like to but Dell supply a lot of work too and yeah they don't just about withdraw from you know I got to get back to sort of the plane landed but he whips out their stuff and we can start connecting again. Yeah I often wonder does it do all those people really have a relative in intensive care. I mean their e-mails must be a whole lot more interesting than mine because mine a lot of them are solicitations to go into online catalogs that are having a sale or my husband saying we pick up some milk you know having these these these gadgets creates a sense of obligation that because you get an email you have to answer it because you get a phone call you have to answer it that you know we're working for the gadgets instead of letting the gadgets work for us. But I would I would love to own up put it all away for me to try to slow down on a personal level. But it's almost like you can't it doesn't.

But you know it's like well what am I going to have an iPhone. Well here's here's a fact that I think bears constant rate repetition. If you talk to the scientists who study this multitasking stuff they will tell you multitasking is a myth right. When you think you are doing two or more things at once all you are doing is rapidly switching back and forth between them which over time will take you longer doing the jobs and you are much likelier to make an error. And the really scary thing and I think this is particularly true for young people because their job is to learn. You cannot learn something if you do not first pay attention to it. At least you can learn it very well if you are not focused on something we all do this or you go to a party and you learn. Somebody comes up shake her hand and five seconds later you've forgotten the person's name. It's because you weren't paying attention to it to begin with but you're OK what I do for a living I

still have a lot of oil. Recently there was. OK I've read over it. Oh no remember Philadelphia was on the phone. Yeah well the emergency it was even paid attention to what he was doing. I think you talk but talk about distractions in the workplace. Well and let's let If you want to make a good case for studying the addiction to information let's look at texting behind the wheel. This is truly scary. I just heard about just the other day a holiday hardball holiday x and some kid plowed into a into a long haul trailer and 32 car pileup. Two people dead tens of 30 people injured. The kid had something like 11 texts in the 10 in like let's say the 20 seconds before the accident I mean I'm not getting the numbers right but if this kid

was not paying attention and if he's anything like my kids that the extra things like where you I don't know what do you want to do I don't know I might see you later. I mean it's just like nonsense and people are losing their lives and they and the research I've seen half of people under 30 are texting behind the wheel. This is really scary stuff. Thanks very much for your call Jason. Thanks. I think we are going to ask this from Brookline Go ahead please you're on the Kelly Crossley Show eighty nine point seven I clearly Thanks for having me. I think what I just wanted to say was I'm a student of design and I think what I see when we have all this technology approaching rapidly you guys are just talking about two fairly new technology that are being developed the car and the cell phone. And I just don't think we're just now seeing the merger of these two technologies.

I think very soon pointless technology start to merge then will be able to better cope with it. In our environment emerge a tangible item in an intangible world this layer the Internet all that stuff that's happening is going to allow us to better live with all these devices in this new world. What do you have an example right now where that's already taken place. Well I mean you can see it heading now with things like technology like if you never heard of it X-Box connect or yeah or D or C or something like that where where are you now. Just a little bit. They're starting to filter into our lives and be part of what they call augment B ality where there's a layer of. The Internet or whatever you want to call it technology within our actual world and our actual well-constructed we know it's human.

Another scientists have actually suggested to me that they think that we will be much better off when when our cars are driven by robots you know which are basically computers when when you get in your car and you say take me to WGBH and and your car just takes you there that will be a whole lot safer than we are now on the other hand Interestingly the thing that cars that automated cars still can't do that we can do is respond to novelty and change they're still not as good as if a deer runs in front of the car that's programmed to go to the store is that I know it doesn't respond as well as you do yet. But they do have those cars that can park themselves now. Yeah. Yeah I mean I just got my first new car in 11 years and I'm amazed to think that this car can do. It's a smart car. In the meantime however addicts don't you think it's important that people concentrate at least on one thing or begin to filter out because there's just too much going on at once. Yeah I think so. I think just think more abstractly about the devices that are using and and how

archvillain are touch which we know so well. All right I want to know if you are neo feely actor you the guy that's going to be first trying new things. I mean sometimes I wish I could but I can't talk I'm not talking to you and I phone right now. OK. That's all right thank you very much for the call Atika. I thank you for being my guest as Weatherford Gallagher we're discussing her latest book new understanding our need for novelty and change. Find out if you are a neo Filia. Atticus says he's not. You can take a quiz. We have a link to it on our Facebook page that's Facebook dot com slash. Kelly Crossley Show that whatever you said you thought you had a guess about where I'd be on the spectrum I'm curious because I did think that this right I'm going to put you up certainly is a robust Neo file and maybe maybe maybe and crossing over into the border of new you feel

that would be my guess. Well I should explain why. OK please don't tell me I want to know why. All right. I would think that there is a characteristic that contributes to this profile. That's been developed in personality and personality research particular personality test has a trait called openness to experience. And there's some evidence that women who are strong novelty seekers are likelier to express it through openness to experience which means a willingness to travel take interesting trips eaten different restaurants experiment with alternative lifestyles have a wide range of what openness to experience sounds like. Whereas as opposed to a male feel X who might be more tending to go for the big wave surfing in the extreme winter sports and you know that type of thing. So I would I would I would suspect that I would rate you very high in openness to experience certainly.

Well I think that's that's pretty that's where I felt I was in the middle somewhere and that's probably because I also have just a little streak of me. But I recently did get the iPhone but only after I took my phone and I very much love. To the phone people to fix it and the guy said to me we don't make the man and I said I don't care I don't want to learn anything new fix this one. And then he starts talking to you like you're three ma'am. This is not made before you're going to have to change so it was one of those experiences I change. I got the iPhone I'm learning it. But you know I am open to a lot of experiences and I have a real odd set of friends and and enjoy that so there you go. Much more on this topic. I'm caught Calla Crossley and we're talking about how we are hardwired to have a love of the new. We're talking about what this survival mechanism means in the 21st century. My guest is one of her Gallagher. Her latest book is new understanding our need for novelty and change. You can join the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 a 970. You can write to our Facebook

page or send us a tweet. You're listening to a 9.7 WGBH Boston Public Radio. This program is on WGBH thanks to you and the Harvard innovation lab a university wide center for innovation where entrepreneurs from Harvard the Austin Community Boston and beyond engage in teaching and learning about entrepreneurship. Information at I lab at Harvard dot edu. And Welch and Forbes personally serving as investment advisors for New England families since 1838 Welch and Forbes knowing wealth. Knowing you on the web at Welch Forbes

dot com. An Islamist party now runs a government in Tunisia. One journalist there says religion is likely not at the top of its agenda. What we need is 750000 jobs. These people are aware of the challenges of the working poor and the news. But some of those working poor want strict religious rule. Islam and democracy in Tunisia. Next time on the world. Coming up at 3:00 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH. The New York Times calls it an instant classic. According to Variety it's compulsively watchable from the get go. It's Downton Abbey from Masterpiece Classic the world's most popular drama the socialite and servants premieres its second season this Sunday January 8 on WGBH television. Set aside your

copy of The Complete second season on DVD before it airs. By making a gift of $84 online at WGBH dot org. Here a question has a great question and it's a great question. It's a great question. Rick great question on fresh air you'll hear unexpected questions and unexpected. It answers this afternoon at 2 here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. I'm Kalee Crossley we're marking the new year with writer Winifred Gallagher. Her latest book is new understanding our need for novelty and change. You can catch her tonight at 7 at Brookline Booksmith. You can also engage her right now at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 seventy 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. Where are you on the Neil filia spectrum. Are you an extreme lover of new things or do you find change and learning new things stressful or a waste of time. 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 0 9

7 8. So Winnifred there are some unflattering names for those people who are on the Neil phobe spectrum on the on the end of that spectrum. Fuddy duddy Luddite. Oh and some of it often tilts toward older people that with the kind of assumption that if you're older you're not wanting to learn new things. What does the research tell you. Well I think you made two actually wonderful points there. First of all I want to be really clear about this. There is nothing wrong with being a neo phobe or a new feeling per se. All types are essential to our survival. Emily Dickinson who after a certain point in her life never went outside her or her own backyard was not any Ofili Ach. She was a neo phobe and she had that exquisite sensitivity that many neo Fobes have. These are the these are the artists many not all. These these this fall it's a thoughtful reflective

temperament that's very well suited for the Arts for academic life for research for science. John Milton the great poet John Milton was not a party animal. So we need and should cherish our neo Fobes. So I just want to get that off my chest and and of course America is the most culture in history so we tend to to put like the you know the snowboarders ahead of the philosophers but that that's a cultural bias too. It's not that way in all cultures. The second point you brought up is age and this is a very interesting thing to me because I've raised five kids. They are all thank God out of their teens. But novelty seeking as anyone who has been a teenager raised a teenager knows peaks in the late teens. So Neil feely act behavior even if you're not a neo feely actor and you feel like behavior will peak in the late teens and by the time you're let's say 60 it's

decreased by half. Even Keith Richards. Is about as much of a full to the field as I can imagine even he in his in his autobiography points out that he likes to stay home with Patti and the kids and takes it easy now so at least some of the time. So I think the age thing all of us become less oriented towards novelty as we get older. Now the question of does it mean you're a fuddy duddy if you're a grandmother and you're not. You're not wired. It really the question is what is being wired going to do for you. If you feel like your family and friends are far flung and nobody writes letters anymore even picks up the phone for a real time phone conversation. And by learning to do email or text that you'll be able to be in touch with your family and that motivates you go for it. But if your set of scripts for your daily life is working fine for you there's there's

really no reason for it for this older person to take on a lot of technological stuff that they don't need that may not add to their experience. Well what you just said was echoed by a person that we enjoy Betty White the actress. She made sort of similar such statement on Saturday Night Live last spring when she appeared. Here she is. You know I have so many people to think for being here but I really have to think Facebook. Campaign to get me to host Saturday Night Live. I. Didn't know what Facebook was. And now that I do know what it is I have to say it sounds like a huge waste of time. Remember to say we didn't have Facebook when I was growing up. We had a book but. You couldn't waste an afternoon on. The book just sounds like a drag. In my day seen pictures of

people's vacations was considered a punishment. So that's a comic take on that's really wonderful you know and the more serious and I think a point that he was sort of making there you know advertently maybe a wonderful scientist actually the one who figured out that we're crunching four times more data than we did in 1980 pointed out to me the the his concern about what is now the new normal. What I think of as the new normal so that he you know he's a college professor. Kids in the same restaurant and they're in the same restaurant they are texting each other rather than talking. And that's now doesn't even raise an eyebrow. And that's that's scary. I think I think Elizabeth from Barnstable Go ahead please you're on the Kelly Crossley Show eighty nine point seven. I tell you I can't even take it because I've never been on Facebook and it seems to me that you know. People have other things to do I mean you go I do use a computer and it is like it's you know my time away from me it just frustrates me

and you know an hour or two later there I am exhausted thinking well what did I do with those two hours you know checking your stupid emails like oh my gosh it's somebody's voice. You know most of my emails are you know offers for various catalogs and I hate that you know that offer 30 percent off or something like that. And someone made a comment that I heard about one of the new I don't know if it's the new app or something it's like well you know don't even talk to you. Yeah well what does a phone I mean you know what what what the hell is that I just don't get it. He was talking about Siri. You can talk to Siri on the iPhone and asked Siri questions in Najaf whatever yeah. Well I mean so you're expressing a sentiment that a lot of people have but I think Winifred's made the point that if it's not improving your life or you don't see a way of improving your life then you know don't do it. I think the big the big big help at least for me in dealing with this kind of stuff is to try to remember the evolutionary point of new Ophelia the reason why we're attracted to

new things is so that we can adjust to changes that have to be made. And so that we can engage with and invent new things that have value enduring value. If you're It's one thing if you're going online and you're you're doing some research or you're learning something that relates to something that's important to you. Buddhism your elderly parents your kids fifth grade class whatever. That's one thing it's another thing if you're just clicking from Kim Carr dashin to Demi Moore's divorce to you know the latest football scandal or whatever. That and then you look up and it's two hours later that's different. So it's a good little if people are out there shopping for a New Year's resolution how about before I engage with the next new piece of information gadget bargain rack item. Just drop back for a minute and think Is this thing going to really add to an area of my life that is important and meaningful.

I don't think people care I think they just they just get into it and you get to that. Just my own opinion but I don't they have I mean it often times you think don't don't these people have anything else to do with their lives. Well they do but it's sometimes it's a part of your life. Whatever just described is a part of my life so I can tell you what Kim is Dylan because I got to talk about it tomorrow. Well that's really. Important to you. But a little bit. You don't have to worry about it you just listen to the show and I can tell you. So you know we have to go on Facebook to get that answer and I will listen to it because I really enjoy your show and I think it's a quick aside and well the Black Panthers that everybody was wearing on thank you. They were the best. Thank you very much Elizabeth. Thanks for the call. Jim from New Hampshire are you on the Calla Crossley Show eighty nine point seven. I would affirm that for sure sugar insights you know I just wonder if I heard on NPR a couple days ago analysis. There's a third basic instinct survival and reproduction called

Curiosity. And I wonder if that's driving this. Plus the new tools such as Google and YouTube that let you access so much content that you're in fact are interested in maybe and can be meaningful and maybe even exceed the 4 4 to 1 increase I think it might be even more people accessing information because they could stay in the middle of the Boston Public Library you're around tons of information but you can access that but now you can with things like Google and YouTube that's a great point. Curiosity is my favorite emotion we forget curiosity is an emotion and it is the it is the foundation of neo Filia. It is that it is what drives us to learn. You would never learn anything if you didn't start with curiosity ha. What's that what's that bird or you know what's that taste. So and oh another wonderful thing about Curiosity is it can be cultivated if you if you tilt more towards the neo phobic end of the spectrum. And you and your

life is feeling a little dull and flat. Cultivate your curiosity. Just sign up for a course at the community college instead of watching television at night or you know or do something even if you always go to the same old restaurant or order something different from the menu you can. You can grow your curiosity which will expand and give you a more interesting life. And I think your point about Google and all the resources we have is a great one I do not want to it all come across as saying that I think me Ophelia is a bad thing I think it's its are the jewel in our crown I think it's a wonderful thing but it's what allows us to learn and create. But we have to harness it and use it for the purpose that it's meant to be used. Thanks for the call Jim. You're welcome I just about any time you want to improve. Just if you think about anything in sports or whatever you can find instructional videos I mean if you could just only put your hands on stuff. That is the incredible depth of content and instructions and you know a series of swim lessons or whatever so it's just amazing what you can put your fingers on where in the 80 100 so they still say you know formation slowed at the

speed of a horse. Yeah. Another important thing for us to realize though that information is not the same as understanding. There is a difference between information and knowledge. And just because you're crunching data doesn't mean you're actually becoming wise or. Jim I have to say I have to put in a plug for librarians. If you were to go into the library and ask the library if you could actually have access to a lot of information that you might not know about. But it sounds like you're doing it it sounds like you're doing a great job Jim that you're really the ideal information consumer because you're looking at it as a vehicle for foreign learning and becoming more curious. Well I'd much rather talk to a library. We know that the most the friendliest people the world aren't they all. Thank you so much. You're welcome about one of the things that your book makes a big point about which I think is fascinating is that Neo files those who are the new seekers are often thinking inside the box

not outside the box. You know we've been in the last few years of the marketing terminology has been I think outside the box that's where the excitement is that's where what's new is happening but you're saying something different than a neophyte works inside the box. Well I think I would say that. Well that's actually and push is not like a complicated it's a complicated question. It's interesting because Steve Jobs just died and we've heard so much about him. And one of the things that really struck me about him was his inability to be satisfied with the state of the art as it were as it was until he came along and changed it. That he didn't but people have also pointed out he didn't create anything new. He took what was there in the box and then. Broadened our thinking about how we used it or what it could be or where we were in our exchange with it. Interestingly the creativity studies show that that for example we say Charles Darwin discovered the theory of evolution in fact that insight he

built up that that that discovery in quotes over many many years of insights other people's research very often something that that we attribute to one person Alexander Graham Bell on the telephone has actually been built on the shoulders of lots of other people too. It's very rare. This is a big change in anthropology actually in fairly recent history. It's apologists used to think that certain genius would just spring up in the in the in the Nile Delta somewhere and invent something for the first time. They now realize that things like speech and big plough and boats and big inventions that really change the human experience occurred to lots of different people and very varied circumstances. So. We might like to take credit for original thinking some time but we are actually basing it on the shoulders of those who came before us often.

You mentioned that new Ophelia is a particular is particular to American culture. I also wonder if there is some element of privilege there too but it was pretty good with regard to technology because it may be there but it's not always accessible to everyone. Oh absolutely there's that real information gap especially with our rural populations and I have a a little cabin in the woods where there is. There is no Internet service so people who are kids especially have to grow up there go to school there they are there really that is like a real form of deprivation. I mean a lot a lot of America a lot. We are very neo feel a culture for different reasons 25 percent about 25 percent of us carry. One of the genetic variants of a dopamine gene called for has several variants and 25 percent of us have that gene which is associated with extreme Nobby seeking that same gene is extraordinarily rare in China. It

almost doesn't exist in China which has always been a traditionally very conservative culture. So. The reason why societies are the way they are is and it's certainly social forces are very powerful but there are biological things at work too. What do you do in new this year. Whenever Gallagher Oh well actually quite a bit. I just just moved my picked up and moved to a new home so I think that's going to call it quits. Novelty I think for the rest of the year and I know you have to ask you since you wrote the book you can't be easily bored are you. No I am I am a I am a very strong focus or I can the kind of person that can do much to my husband's chagrin who can sit down and read a book and look up and say oh gosh wait the four hours go. I'm a pretty good focus or I would say I am I am probably I would think kind of

similar to you maybe Cali in that I'm like oh maybe robust file or maybe in some respects openness to experience. A little bit of a new feel X sometimes. OK all right well as I said you wrote the book and it's a fascinating one at that we've been talking about the human condition and our unique capacity to appreciate the new to love the new. I've been speaking with writer winner for Gallagher. Her latest book is new understanding our need for novelty and change. You can catch her tonight at 7 o'clock at Brookline Booksmith. Thank you so much rank you my pleasure. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter or become a fan of the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook. Today's show was engineered by Jane Pitt produced by Chelsea murders. Will Rose let an abbey Ruzicka. This is the Calla Crossley Show a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.