WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. During our campaign Martha Coakley said her gender was a secondary concern but did play a primary role in her loss last week. Although Coakley didn't flaunt her feminist creds or her pro-woman progressive politics such as defending civil liberties and reproductive rights did her campaign take the sisterhood of Massachusetts for granted. If a gender double standard was at play during the race was a lack of much she's MO or a lack of magnetism to blame for copays loss. We'll explore the gender card. And if it was even brought to the table during the Senate race later in the hour will move from women to whine with a post. Great analysis of the Boston Wine Expo and will top out the show with a pasta most local made good. A celebration of Boston's beloved mystery writer Robert Parker. Up next on the callee Crossley Show gender politics gustatory pursuits and gumshoe prose. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Craig Wyndham. President Obama is proposing a number of steps to help middle class families struggling to make

ends meet in turbulent economic times. And a preview of his State of the Union Address on Wednesday the president says his first priority is to encourage the creation of new jobs. We also need to reverse the overall erosion in middle class security so that when this economy does come back working Americans are free to pursue their dreams again. Among the initiatives unveiled by the president is a doubling of the child care tax credit for couples earning under $85000 a year and a move to cap student loan payments at 10 percent of income above a basic living allowance. Sales of previously owned homes dropped nearly 17 percent last month as potential first time buyers stepped aside in reaction to what they thought would be the end of a tax credit a credit that was ultimately extended by Congress. But NPR's John its reports even as sales plunged. Median home prices rose for the first time in more than a year. Analysts attributed the plunge in home sales to the change in the government's homebuyers tax credit.

It was set to expire at the end of November which pushed home sales sharply higher that month. But when Congress extended the tax credit until the end of April the scramble to buy a home quickly faded. Hence the record drop in sales in December. Despite the big December slide home sales are up 21 percent from the bottom a year ago. But they're still well below the peak set four years ago. The concern now is whether the tentative recovery in housing will continue as the government pulls its support back over the next year. John it's t NPR News Washington. Authorities in Baghdad say the three suicide bomb attacks in the city today were clearly coordinated with the blasts occurring within a matter of minutes. The targets were hotels popular with Western journalists and businessmen. At least three dozen people were killed and more than 80 others were wounded. NPR's Lourdes Garcia-Navarro says the attacks came shortly before Iraq's government announced the execution of Saddam Hussein's cousin who was known as Chemical Ali. One of the most reviled and feared figures in the regime of Saddam Hussein Allie Hassan Al-Majeed

who was also Saddam's cousin was executed today according to a senior government spokesman. He was known as Chemical Ali for orchestrating the poison gas attacks on Kurdistan that killed thousands of people. His death comes almost a week after he received his fourth death sentence. The latest was for ordering the chemical weapons to be dropped on the Kurdish town of Hilla in 1908. Lourdes Garcia-Navarro NPR News Baghdad. On Wall Street stocks are rebounding somewhat from the sharp sell off they experienced late last week. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is currently up 64 points at ten thousand two hundred thirty six. The Nasdaq Composite also registering gains up eight points at this hour and the S&P 500 index is also up 8. This is NPR News. From Washington a relief group says it could take weeks to find suitable locations for enough tent cities to hold all of the earthquake refugees in Haiti. An estimated 700000 people are living on the streets of Port au Prince. One man there describes the condition as much more than terrible.

An emergency declaration by President Obama is opening the way for federal help. In Arizona as that state deals with the after effects of a powerful winter storm. Arizona Public Radio's Gillian Ferris Kohl has more. The president is calling for a coordinated effort between federal and state agencies to help Arizona recover from its second strongest storm in recorded history. Freezing rain and more than 5 feet of snow fell across northern Arizona last week causing flooding roof collapses and high country avalanches hit particularly hard by the storms or the remote Navajo and Hopi nations where flooding and inaccessible dirt roads have stranded hundreds of residents. The Arizona Division of Emergency Management has activated the state's incident management team and Nevada's governor has ordered that state's National Guard to Arizona to aid in disaster relief. For NPR News I'm Julian Farris Kohl in Flagstaff. The Coast Guard says more than half of the over 450000 gallons of crude oil that spilled into a waterway near Port Arthur Texas over the weekend has been cleared up or has

evaporated. Coast Guard spokesman Adam Baylor says though the cleanup will take time and will not be perfect it was the amount of oil that spilled right now it's going to take a long time to actually get the oil out of the area. And with these you really you never have it research into like pristine condition. Baylor says the oil is affecting about nine miles of shoreline. The spill occurred when a tanker crashed into a vessel pushing two barges. I'm Craig Wyndham NPR News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from Carnegie Corp. of New York a foundation created to do what Andrew Carnegie called real and permanent good celebrating 100 years of philanthropy. Thank you. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. You can be part of the conversation by calling 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 with the Senate race a thing of the past.

Is there credibility to the claim that gender played a part in Martha Coakley as defeat. Did she take the Massachusetts sisterhood for granted. Or the entire general election to explore the role of gender in this race and whether or not the gender card was even played. We're joined by two great thinkers on the role the gender plays in politics. E.J. Graff and Susan rever be E.J. Graff is the associate director of the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism at Brandeis where she also heads the gender and justice project. Susan rever B is the Marion Butler McLean professor in the history of ideas and professor of women's and gender studies at Wellesley College give us a call for your take on the role the gender did or didn't play in this election. We're at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1. Eighty nine seventy. Welcome to you both. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you very much. Now I would like to set the context for this discussion and that is I am not saying that. Sexism played a part in the failure of Martha Coakley to win the Senate seat. That's and that's not where I'm going. What I really want to focus on is that why sexism

appeared once again in the campaign. It seems to rear its ugly head through all the recent ones that we can think of right away which is Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. Why is it persistent and what is the role that it plays in a campaign like this win or lose. Who'd like to start. Well I would say. OK. OK. I think first I want to agree with you that we can't assign we can't say she lost because she was a woman. That's just way too simple she she. I mean really Curt Schilling is not a Yankee fan. But yes of course the campaign was gendered. She and you mean by that I mean by that. Two things she ran a particularly. This may be her personal style but nevertheless this was also portrayed. She ran a particularly gender neutral kind of campaign the safe. I have no sex kind of image that

a lot of women have run in various situations. And I do wonder I'll be really interested to hear what you think Susan. I do wonder if that's as successful as acknowledging being female a little bit more. I mean I think of Patty Murray the senator from Washington who was famously dismissed by one of her state senators when she was trying to lobby. I was just a mom in tennis shoes and she would never get anything done and she took that as her banner. She said I am a mom in tennis shoes and that is what you need in Washington. And that really worked for her. At the same time that Coakley campaign seemed pretty neutral on being female but she was supported by EMILY's List she was out there with some of her. OK. Scott Brown was on manliness. I mean I can just imagine a woman saying this is my truck. And then would that not be

the joke of the week or these are my daughters or here I am in my kitchen. OK well let's let Susan get in on this right Susan No I think that sexism is too narrow a way to understand this and gender is the bigger word dad is whether or not we acknowledge it or not. Gender is always there. So Brown. I agree with E.J. completely. Brown really I mean the kitchen thing really got me there he was in the kitchen or he comes into the house and one says Hi I'm home. And we couldn't imagine we were talking earlier. How could a woman who had a naked picture in clay girl be taken seriously in this country maybe in Italy but certainly not here so I think what he did very very cleverly was almost never mention that he was a Republican. And at one point one of the ads showed JFK and then morphed into him. Was that manly in your opinion I don't think so and I think it was the old you know sort of right conservative

playbook the Democrats really are soft on national defense and I've been in the National Guard. OK so how does that how does Martha Coakley saying I am a serious woman though I'm not going to say it as E.J. said overtly. What does that play against her. Because what happened was that he seemed to kind of have this energy and this you know kind of new guy on the block so the problem was in part when Obama said change he could come in and say change. And it felt like different and she just felt like his old tired to me no energy old tired Massachusetts politician it just didn't seem any different and he took on the Kennedy mantle. Well we know old with women is really not going to say oh I don't care where you are running for office or trying to win American Idol or whatever it just is not going to work. I do want to point out these things that were said about her which seem to me I take your point

about gender being larger than just sexism but but these things I think in anybody's book are sexist unless you guys disagree with me. Alex Beam wrote a piece about her December 2nd. Alex Beam of the globe in which he said she's a very good looking woman I call it the babe factor in person she's a knockout. And then we had Lauren Falco over at The Boston Herald writing. She's an ice queen. She's a mean girl. With people shouting out at the brown rally that they'd like to stick a curling iron up you know various parts were not going there's a family show. But and a Teamster boss saying he wouldn't vote for a broad. I mean what are we talking about. And Margery Eagan at the Herald had to write several times very powerfully about her being described as wrinkly. In fact I'm going to read it here from her column in which she said the other day how we called Coakley the wrinkly attorney general. Let me tell you how we women of a certain age. This is Margery Eagan writing including yours truly don't like hearing women who look as good as

Martha called wrinkly. If she's wrinkly What are the rest of us now that to me is just blatant sexism right. I mean that has to play a role. Well sexism in the sense of I think sexism actually is not the most useful word. OK I think I think that the useful way of thinking about it. Because that sort of implies I'm against women and and the exit polling I saw an analysis of it that showed that women and men voted in about their will that it was the same gender gap in voting as there was for Obama. So it doesn't appear that women and men voted in different patterns. But it's that we all have these stereotypes and cultural attitudes deep in us whether we're conscious of them or not and they affect how we react to the same thing in a man and the same thing in a woman. I mean there's study after study that show women if you take a sort of neutral resume and you put a female name on it and you put a

male name on it and you submit it you know make tiny changes so it's not obvious it's the same as me. You submit it. He gets many more. He quote unquote gets many more interview and you even see it with babies it's really interesting there's been studies done where you bring a child in and you tell the people watching whether it's a boy or a girl and they react differently to the child on the assumption so even if it's the same person and they're thinking E.J. must use her initials for a reason. Yeah but I was now reading but you know I want to bring in a caller we have a caller from Cambridge. Reverend Irene Monroe Hi Irene. Well I have to all of you. Yeah I mean I just want to make one comment here. One is that want to Coakley unfortunately. In a mellow You know Alina she had to be non-gendered because if she used her gender they would have been comments about that. If she was too pretty she would have been taken seriously.

If she and she it were comments about him looking frumpy. I mean she was just in a no win situation when when she was juxtaposed to pretty boy Scott Brown. It could because there are a lot of folks that he looked senatorial I remember going canvassing folks you said well he just looks better in the role. Why don't he look better and many I'm just it because he's just good looking. How does she look at me different than Hillary by the way. Well what I was what I was going to go to and I hear what you're saying Irene is that women are more harshly judged if they're cool and competent. Right I mean compare her to Kerry I mean he's not exactly a man of the people. So she because he's cool and confident. Yeah you know I mean that exactly right. OK. OK. That's what I'm saying. And I heard him called in much more. Much less much more direct terms that he was a hottie and she was a. No man

would be called up for seeming cold incompetent and a little bit distant they may not be. They might not win. So in other words yes there is bias against women who are going for a major job like that and you just have to work harder to overcome it. Right. I think the other thing is Nancy Cott years ago wrote on the history of feminism and said The problem with feminism is to make gender matter and not matter at the same moment in time. And I think that sums up for me a lot of the difficulty on the one hand she's obviously a woman. He's obviously a cute man to some people. And then the question becomes how does she position herself and how is she caught and I think she just never really on some level figured that out. And I think that in the end really hurt her and I think it is right. I think that we have to always be like Ginger Rogers you know doing it in high heels and dancing backwards and I think that makes it much tougher in this case and the other thing is the context of Massachusetts so let's put this in a historic context.

The institute by the way thank you Ira. Thank you. Thank you. That Massachusetts has been given a C plus historically for women in politics we actually have very few women who have made it to national offices in this state. So partly we have no real history I mean you know we have Teresa Marie now but in fact we've had very few women win statewide office. You know we're only five as a matter of fact Shannon O'Brien is one and then we have of course and he Tsongas that's right you know and the other thing that happens often in national politics and here too and you think about Niki Tsongas is Paul Tsongas widow is what political scientists call the widow effect. So that many many women who make it into politics may made it in our earliest representatives both in the House and in the Senate. Nationally came because they were the widows. Now what are you guys saying is if maybe if she played a little bit more to the female stereotype since Scott Brown played to the male stereotype if you will she would it would have been better NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

All right. OK. You know she couldn't do that. Either that or not it are a problem. Yeah I'm not saying I know how she should run. OK let me just make that clear. I see that how we were talking before she ran a bad campaign and he ran a gendered campaign. He ran as a man. I mean he I have a truck for God's sake. OK. Chuck he ran as a man and she didn't run hard enough. All the all the criticisms are true. She I don't know how she could have done it better. But we know that there are women who worked on it I mean you we've got a limp snow we've got Jeanne Shaheen We've got Susan Collins. It's not like New England can't do it. All right we're going to come back with more. I'm Kelly Crossley in which is discussing gender politics with our guests E.J. Graff and Susan revery. E.J. Greste is director of the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism at Brandeis where she also heads the gender and Justice Project says never be as a Marion Butler McLean professor in the history of ideas. And Professor of Women and Gender Studies at Wellesley College we

want your take on gender politics Collin 8 7 7 3 0 0 1 89 70. We'll be back after this break stay with us. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Skinner auctioneers and appraisers of antiques and fine art. You might consider auction when downsizing a home or selling a collection 60 auctions annually 20 collecting categories Boston in Marlborough online at Skinner Inc dot com and from the WGBH Ralph Lowell society local philanthropists who support public radio with annual gifts of fifteen hundred dollars or more learn more about the benefits of the Ralph Lowell society online at WGBH dot org. Support news and entertainment. An eighty nine point seven with a sustaining gift of 5 dollars a month and WGBH will say things over and

over again with our member's discount card. It on walks two for one offers various eaters incredible deals on good eats. Insider discounts at many areas shopping eating and because sustaining membership automatically reach those discounts. Will never expire become a WGBH to stand securely online at WGBH dot org. Why why why. Why eighty nine point seven. Because of programmes you won't hear anywhere else like the take away. We're talking about people in their 30s and 40s and sometimes older who are taking either very low paid or unpaid internships in order to maybe learn new skills get their foot in the door on new careers. Why eighty nine point seven. Because it's a new choice in public radio. Eighty nine point seven WGBH be a part of A Prairie Home Companion history on February 4th when Garrison Keillor beams into cinemas all over the country with a special live performance from the Fitzgerald Theater to reserve your seats.

Visit WGBH dot org slash box office. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Calla Crossley Show. We're backing up and looking at last week's Senate race with an eye on the role gender played in the election. Joining us to sort through the stock issues of sexism and politics are E.J. Graff and Susan rever be E.J. Graff is associate director of the gender and Justice Project at Brandeis University Schuster Institute for investigative journalism. Susan rever B is the Marion Butler McLean professor in the history of ideas and professor of women and women's and gender studies at Wellesley College. You can join the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. I think it's clear that women are judged by a different standard period. I mean if the one thing that we do know that was clearly sexist in the campaign Scott Brown posing in the cosmos that he didn't bring it up others did. And if she had done that it's over you know discussions I could never have even been a candidate so there's

your double standard right there. Yes although yes you know if you think about it so what do you do about Sarah Palin who was a beauty queen. Well she was. Do you hand over her. Yeah right. Exactly and she was clear that she was a beauty queen but who was an Iron Maiden as well. Right right right. So I think it's just a bit more complicated than that I think though I think it's absolutely true that if there had been a as I said a Playgirl picture of her she never would have been the new general for starters. Well let me just bring up Evelyn Murphy somebody you've worked with who said that the language that is used as we all know is very important and that constantly almost from the beginning she with Martha Coakley was it could be tough enough she might not be tough enough. And that was really through a male perspective of being tough. And she was tough in her own way but but by saying that over and over again that put her at a disadvantage. Well that's why traditionally women come up with women try to make sure their attorney general and let people know who Evelyn Murphy is you know former lieutenant

governor one of those people Rand you know was a statewide office holder and you work with her on a book. Yes I wrote her book getting even. I helped her write her book getting even. Why Women Still don't get paid like men what to do so well. And that is where I got deeply steeped in the social science of bias when I dove into that literature. There's no way around it. So at some point you have to acknowledge it at some point you have to leave it aside. When I was thinking during the break about your comment should you have run as a woman. Well no but at points I think you have to acknowledge it that I was thinking about Obama he he ran he ran as race neutrally as he could. Except when he had to make a point and when he had to make it a point he made you feel just thrilled at the opportunity to do something historic. Well Susan did you make a point at any point. I don't think so I think she hit it. I think she made a point in the primary which made it possible for her to beat three guys who looked exactly the same pretty much except kapa want to had some

experience. But I think she downplayed it because I think everybody really thought it was over in December and so therefore it wasn't really necessary to to to. So let me put it a different way if she had you know come out and said OK sisters in Massachusetts rise up. I'd imagine her that would have done it enough either. I think one of things we're seeing is look the feminist revolution is by no means over. But we as someone who teaches younger students now who's. Almost now grandmothers were those leaders in that and I think a lot of them think most of this is over that you judge people as individuals so even if she had said We're making history here which he occasionally came up in the campaign as the first woman people have said well you know this tree smarmy they're Palosi that it was almost Hillary big big deal Sarah Palin Sarah Palin exactly so it didn't feel like the way Hillary's campaign felt like this is the real chance to do this. We have a

caller Alice maybe Alicia from fellow found with going to please her. I'm a venture crew Scout leader. So that's Boy and Girl Scouting and I have a group of girls and boys that were about it age and we had a little roundtable discussion about these voting issues and I find it very curious that gender did not come up when they were telling me why they were voting for whichever candidate. Which is odd because we are constantly talking about gender issues when we're camping. I mean these boys and girls are interacting all the time and I wanted to comment on why do you think that was though. I mean I had a couple of theories that you were there trying to ingratiate themselves to the boys and my two voting girls. Well voting for Scott Brown and I couldn't tell me particularly what they liked about him but they could tell me. What they did not like about Martha Coakley campaign and what was that point was it might have been gendered. Yeah what was it. It might have been better if they did not like her splinted about got brown and OK well you know because she wasn't being you

know. So she's caught you know is what you're telling us because if she wasn't nice then she didn't fit this particular stereotype but if she wasn't strong then she didn't look senatorial so you can see where she got caught in the social science research suggest actually that women who achieve electoral success and become legislators most typically resemble their male counterparts in terms of both personality and social background. So maybe if she had been more winsome if she had been more articulate if she had fought her seemingly harder and tried to find a way to speak to younger girls like those in your troop and in my class who really think it's not an issue anymore they really think it's over and that we may be won. Yes but why do you think. But but but a lot of these comments keep coming up whether or not we agree if there is any weight to the sexism that did pop up in this campaign why does it keep coming up if it's not an issue anymore.

I mean why don't I think it's I think it's an issue but I think they don't know how to recognize it because when we first started out in the women some of the stuff that was easy to do in some ways we did first right we got equal rights into the bars we broke into the colleges. We broke not obviously all of the glass ceiling but I suspect 40 years ago you wouldn't be sitting here. Calley and I know I would I would be pretty sure so neither would I yank. Yeah really Jane I I don't know what we'd be doing but we'd be doing something else I'd probably be doing something else. So we know that those things mattered that was the easy part. I think the harder part is the great line from Sally Kempton early in the women's movement she said it's very hard to fight an enemy who has outposts in your mind. OK well we got a guy on the line who wants to add something Bruce from Marblehead Please go ahead. Thank you. I told the interviewer that I'm delighted the Telegraph has a room. Oh thank you. You have been undervalued in this community. Well thank you all right already I'm listening. After a time

model had one very strongly for Scott Brown I'm a man who voted for Martha Coakley. I voted on the issue. We people out here often do vote on issues. I don't care whether he has a proc an airplane or a kayak and I frankly don't know what Martha Coakley drives and it's of no interest. I also think that the three of you although it's very entertaining have gotten a little bit too concerned with how people look. If we really elected on the basis of pretty a lot of people in the Senate a lot of people in the House of Representatives would be out of a job. Right but I would not qualify for a centerfold. OK Susan has a response to you for us. First of all I delighted that you voted on the issues. I wish I thought everybody else did. I never will in America I never will in America so I think part of Richard Neustadt had this great quote about the role of the president started with him it's a long shot. And he said as you recall then that the role of the presidency is the psychic reassurance of the American people.

Richard That was brilliant right. So I got a little right but in any event I think the point being is that not everybody votes on issues not everybody studies everything. All of us even those of us who think we do don't. And secondly people do want to feel comfortable remember when people said they voted for Bush because they wanted to have a beer with him. And I think you know we are dealing with that's what it means to be in a democracy. Well they're going to elect people right like to have a beer or a cup of coffee with Martin right. Well it's true. She may be available soon but I wanted to add something which is clearly made it very clear at the beginning of the show but it's certainly worth repeating. We're not talking about why one of them won and the other lost right. There are many factors the Obama backlash there's health care there's Coakley seeming a little there's Coakley taking a vacation right after the primary. There's many many reasons there's the Red Sox. There's the Red Sox comment. But we're to

we're just talking about was did sexism or did gendered attitudes play any role and where was it you know what do we do about it just as race or religion would be in some way. But it is hard to generalize with a diverse population. I agree that Massachusetts is retro. I've lived here for 50 years I come from New York and I cannot believe that there has never been a woman senator or an elected woman governor that said I will think that we use the whole issue when we are constantly saying well if she was more like a man or out of the neckline I don't we're saying I actually don't think that's what we're saying I think and I would argue and I think A.J. did at the beginning of the show that in fact it was brown rather than Coakley who coded in terms of gender that he made that appeal and it was very clear that he had very good advice about how to make those answers. Yeah thanks.

Thanks a lot. I appreciate your comments. I'm very wordy. No I just didn't want to say that. You know contrary to what something that Bruce raised it was because Hillary was sort of presenting herself as a man like in her approach to let's say foreign affairs and whatever that men set out right. JD I think you know she can be tough. And so that's the only way that that's really what I would disagree with Bruce about is that you know when women adapt that attitude some men find it very comfortable. Right. I think she was very smart in her Senate chair pick. And all I wanted to add one other thing Wendy Kaminer wrote what I thought was a really brilliant post on the Atlantic website saying that Coakley worked identity politics this would be Wendy's way of phrasing it and worked for her in the primary and against her in the general. And let me bring in Barbara from Cambridge who wants to add to that I think that's her exact point Barbara go ahead.

Oh I want to tell you what I think we've all forgotten that Martha Coakley a woman or man in the primary the way I was you know it. Disadvantage of being a woman there there at the event. That's the point I made earlier I think which is that she differentiated. All of them basically had the same position all the issues so in the end how did you pick. And that's where I think being a woman made a difference because she was the one you could tell the difference and it's always interesting to think about if Capital One had one for example would this would he have beaten Brown could the same mean in other words would Brown's ads have been the same if it had been. I mean this is always the if if problem but I think it's interesting to think about that as a sort of thought process so I think the identity politics worked for her in the beginning and then I think it didn't work for her and I want to say that that she lost at least in my case was I wasn't even a personal I wasn't even a personal thing I think a lot of us are getting tired of being a one party

state both on Beacon Hill and in the congressional our congressional delegation and also I think Martha Coakley didn't campaign very hard to birth because she had every reason to believe that simply winning the Democratic. It would automatically give her the job because that's the way it happened for the past 30 years. I think you're bringing up thank you very much Barbara for your call I think you're bringing up points that others have made. We I think we absolutely are with you and I also think that it's never just gender it never is it's always a combination these other kinds of factors. So what. OK so now let's look forward. The next woman that wants to run statewide in Massachusetts given you know also have to pay attention to what Barbara said. You know we need messages that citizens like to have both parties represented in statewide positions. What can a woman do what can a woman candidate do to position herself. Well I think first of all I think Emily's List is right in terms of early money is like yeast and I think it needs that we need more troops.

If there had been more women in the in legislation in legislatures in the in different offices in the state we might have had a different pick somebody else. So part of the problem is that we're still dealing with an extremely small number of women who go into politics in this day that reduce the sexism. I think it helps if you see more and more types of women I think the more people are there then it's harder to generalize and say only women do this if you've got 50 versions of it then. There's absolutely studies. It's a 25 percent or more effect under 25 percent. You get whatever your your minority is and a place you get more stereotyping over 25 percent do you have more safety in numbers that's right. You know you're not Barbara the woman right. You're part of the you know the mayor of Newton. So I think that partly what it says. I think the lesson here is more is absolutely encouraging younger women to go into it to be aware of what these issues are to study the social science material that's there

about the problems to hire really smart people for their campaigns. If that's possible and to really keep doing it I think that the message here is we need more of you out there to do this. I should point out that both former candidate Kerry Healey an Ambassador Swanee Hunt made the point of more women being the answer on Emily show an hour before. I'd like to say I'd like to also though ask though that as as we look forward to what women can do and let's assume there is more. What is still there is going to be these kinds of comments that still keep popping up and I want to put those in you know how. How were people to recognize that that is as you say as it was and continuing sexism continuing gendering in some way. Well I think we hopefully more education and more discussion about this in a younger generation we're seeing it more I mean one of things that's interesting is the new trend where more and more women are actually making more money than their husbands and where people are in marriages where there is much more equality so I think partly what.

What I would argue is that the economy may change what the women's movement couldn't. In some ways that we beginning to see a real move toward some changes in terms of expectations about what women can and can't do that our children will see that and so I think that that's going to happen I have great I think it helps to teach youngsters. Last word on this day as at the end of the curling iron comment I don't think so. I think I see the culture going in the other direction. You may say that's true about economics but culturally it is a lot more gendered than it was when I was young and watch MTV. That's all I have to say. But I think we all we have to be conscious and we have to talk about what does it mean to call a woman Julie. And what does it mean to talk about a curling iron right. Oh yeah. Well there's the other kind of violence but the other thing I'd say about watching MTV is if you watch Lady Gaga for example my students read it completely differently than we do so I think partly I mean Lady Gaga. OK. And I know the rap. Yeah but that's another conversation for another day. But I have great hopes in our younger

women and men coming up and for people who don't recognize this is sexism What do you say A.J. some of the common kinds of comments that were made. Try pretending they were. They went exactly the opposite way. Right. What would it mean to have Scott Brown threatened to be raped with a curling iron. Or imagine Martha Coakley in her kitchen just just try flipping it. How would you have reacted differently to the very same things if Scott had been female. And if Martha had been male. OK well we'll have to leave it there. I'm Kelli crossing we'll be talking with E.J. Graff and Susan rever be about gender and politics. E.J. Graff is the associate director of the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism at Brandeis where she also heads the gender and justice project. Susan rever B is a Marion Butler McLean professor in the history of ideas and professor of women's and gender studies at Wellesley College. Susan thank you so much for joining me. Up next we pay tribute to local legend writer

Robert Parker. But first it's a review of the Boston Wine Expo stays tune. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Fuller craft museum presenting Warren McKenzie legacy of an American Potter spending 50 years in the life of the twentieth century master craftsman extended through January 30 first at Fuller craft museum online at Fuller craft dot org and from the members of the WGBH leadership circle. Benefits include invitations for special radio events and sneak peaks for WGBH television series. Learn more at WGBH dot org. This is eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston NPR

station for news from NPR News this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED I'm Michele Norris. And I'm Melissa Block. Context the drinking issue is wholly separate from the legal trouble that he has and analysis. Another thing President Medvedev says he will look into is the election process in Russia what needs modernizing there and streaming online at WGBH dot org. The best benefit of supporting public radio is doing your part for the programs you love an 89 percent part the WGBH member discount card really gives you with hundreds of savings packed into one wallet friendly card. The WGBH members discount card comes in quite handy when you're out for lunch looking for a good book or shopping for tires. Start supporting and save as a WGBH man. Just click to donate at WGBH. Why why why eighty nine point seven. Because of programs you won't hear anywhere else like the world. How much

of Afghanistan right now is built up around corrupt deals. The new eighty nine point seven WGBH. I'm Kelly Crossley and this is the Kelly Crossley Show last week in the Boston Wine Expo made a splash to get a taste of what is in store for wine lovers old and new. We sent GBH producer and wine afficionado Cameron Kirkpatrick to check it out. Cameron welcome. I think you know I think from you on the show I want to give people a sense of just what you sensed when you were there so let's just hear a little bit of what happened at the Boston Wine Expo if they could get any oh if we had that much at a time how do you know if we're going to you know do you want to write. You don't say what it is which is the best company you have you know the police chief was going to be. For your own 80 percent of what I should be the ones I see on 5 6.

Lot of stuff going on there are thousands of wineries there were thousands and thousands of whiners there and and both Saturday and Sunday of the installment of the expo their book sold out I think is might be the first time in 13 years. So there were so many different booths from all over the world that one from Spain from Portugal from Chile from France from Germany you could any any kind of wine you can imagine was there. Well let me just remind our viewers that this is the this was the 19th year that the Boston Expo has been here and it's the largest wine festival in the country. Amazingly enough right here right here in Boston. I had no clue Boston at so much a pull with one because I'm you think it would be somewhere like California but no it's here right here in Boston. Now this is your first time to Boston if I was and I was totally overwhelmed. I mean if you walk in the door and there's the sounds of people opening bottles and glasses clinking in everyone it was such a buzz around the wine Expo everyone there was. Clearly very passionate about wine they want to experiment and try new things and what did you try that was new.

Oh I found lots of really great wines from from mangia. It's one of the wine regions in Spain which isn't very well known in the United States. A lot of the small wonder we don't have distributors but a lot of these wineries from this area came in force and there was some wonderful grape varieties that I personally have never heard of. There was an Iranian which was a white wine very sweet very much like a Pina agrees you had a very floral taste a lovely dry finish was nice. What would you drink it with camera. Oh this was going to go so well with a wonderful appetizer maybe some seafood some shellfish something nice and bright to play off some of the sweetness in the wine. OK. That sounds expensive. No no no. These wines are quite reasonable I mean most of them will probably want to get distributorship in this country will probably be around. Seven to twelve dollars one of the things that Johnson Allsup we had him here from the Boston Wine School talking about how to prepare to go to something as overwhelming as the expo was to make a plan. So you did make a little plan because you decided to go to the Spanish one. I did I realized when I got there and took me about an hour of walking around to realize that I need to sort of

find one or two areas that I want to really get really deep and delve into. And my hours were like I said earlier the cast you know shots of the pop they had quite a bit from France it's from from around the Rhone River in France but they're very small Appalachian but they came with about 20 to 30 different want to restrain the shows a lot of their wines and I was very impressed because I think shutdown of the pop has probably one of the most intimidating names of any appellation in France because it was a really great reputation there are some very very expensive very high quality ones from this area but there are also some very moderately priced ones as well. Now for a person like yourself who is a wine and you know you're not writing a column you don't have a book about wine just like it and you know what little you know about it you've learned it by tasting. Were you impressed that the people who were standing with you getting a taste were they snobs or were they just regular folk know they were just regular folks. It was really great there was such a feeling of curiosity around everyone wanted to try new things or from wanting to experience and a lot of

the representatives from some of these wineries were very welcoming and very open about having questions being asked about where is one from what kind of grapes are these wines contain what is the process of making them what makes this one different from say the one two booths down. So I think it was a very educational experience for anyone who would have attended. And was it fun to because educational sounds kind of like oh my god I have to eat well and you know when you have like hundreds and hundreds of people walking around drinking wine it's much more a party then and then like a lecture. I mean the general feeling of the place was it was fun. People were mingling talking about their experiences sharing taste a little bit of a little bit of a little fruit here who that was a little more leathery So it was it was very conversational. Now for people who may next year think about going are you the person that would go again. Oh absolutely. I will not miss the boss in one expose and never again ever again. Well next year will be big as it'll be the 20th. It's right here here in Boston heard a lot of buzz about this going on a lot of the

winemakers who have been through a lot of the previous exposé So this next year is going to be one of the biggest years so I would advise anyone to get their tickets early. And prepare to maybe get a couple books from the library and read up on some areas of wine that you might want to explore. Really and I have to just say that you know you decided to look at Spain and you know some wines from France but every state in the United States has a winery. They do and some of them are more well known and others. We always think about California but you know there are wines from upstate New York and I think the Lakes region exactly it's quite a quite a quite a nice selection of wines there and also there some wines in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Xander there was a contingent of folks from from New England and they were shown very well there was a conic had a really nice conic is in Rhode Island right. Yes just on the other side of the border from Massachusetts and they had a really nice show of one there too. All right well I think I that's an assignment I might give

myself next year. Can I plan a company doing that. Yeah that was the assignment to have this. It was the one that you assigned yourself. It was really great. Thank you so much. OK well thanks so much for joining us and now it's time for our regular Monday feature local made good where we celebrate people whose creativity and individuality bring honor to New England. Writer Robert Parker is among those who really put Boston on the map most notably through his Spencer series. He is a beloved crime writer who died last week at the age of 77. A prolific writer he published more than 60 novels to take stock of his legacy we are joined by Kate Matus and Calvin Trillin. Tate is the owner of Kate's mystery books. Calvin Trillin is a journalist humorist and novelist. Welcome to you both. Thank you Guy. And I thought I would start off with you. You and Robert Parker were quite close and I thought you might tell us a little bit about the person and the writer. Well

you know the person and the writer and his main characters sort of merge I think in people's minds as has often been said since he died he was very much like Spencer in the sense that he was a sort of tough looking at a crew cut. And spoken to either a gruff or a sort of mock gruff way I think the first time I met him I may have been the second time we were on a panel of mystery writers and one of the others said to Bob how come you're not a member of the Mystery Writers of America and the last organization I joined sent me to Korea. That's how we talk. From our writers. Tell us what made him stand out. Because I'm hearing from so many writers who just say his work is one to be admired. I have

a quote here from Harlan Coben who said when it comes to detective novels 90 percent of us admit he's an influence and the rest of us lie about it. I wondered if you could respond to that. Well I think that he did one of the things I liked about his writing was the dialogue he had a wonderful way of writing kind of smart alec dialogue and and he had a nice clean plot line I mean he was he was. I think brighter mystery writers who are good are partly good at setting the scene and of giving a sense of place. And for him that was usually Boston. And you really had the feel of Boston when he when he wrote about it. Absolutely put Boston on the map. I want to give our listeners a chance to hear some of that snappy dialogue. We have a clip from the audio book the professional it was published in 2009.

The last book in the Spencer series and it's read by actor Joe Montane Yeah. Abigail Larsen had seemed the most lively of my four clients so I tried her first. She lived in Louisburg Square but she wanted to meet at the bar at the Taj which was once the Ritz Carlton but the Ritz had opened the new location up on the other side of the common. And the name moved up there. Except for the unfortunate name the Times hadn't changed anything. So the bar was still good and the view from a window table of the public garden across Arlington Street was still very good. It was 10 to 4 in the afternoon on a Thursday and I had snared us a window table. Abigail was 20 minutes late but I had been trained by Susan who was always late except when it mattered and I remained calm. I stood when she came in. The bartender waved at her. Then two waiters came to say hello when she came toward my table. She put out her hand. I shook it. One of the waiters held her

chair and she said she ordered a lemon drop martini and smiled at me. You're drinking beer. I am I said. I get so full if I drink enough beer to get tipsy she said. The smile continued. A martini does the job on much less volume. I'm hoping not to get tipsy I said. What fun is that. She said. Kate Matus from Kate's mystery books now that some day. Yeah. What do you think about it. Well you know mate reminded me of he had a scene in the Ritz looking for Rachel Wallace that dialogue there was between a feminist and him and it was one of the best dialogues. But he was just very well he could do was a crime novel he. Well you got a sense there of his sense of place and he really put Boston on the crime map. And I've been kind of struggling this last week to kind of

separate myself from what I know of him as a person and looking at him in the whole mystery genre and I realize that he's really almost every crime writer today owes him a legacy. He in the 70s busted so many stereotypes he had a black guy was a black companion who was his best friend. He had a feminist a woman who did not want to move and live with them and he adopted in quotes. A young boy who was emotionally abandoned by his family and helped to raise and this he became a ballet dancer. And prior to that private eye novels the private eye when you know they had no friends they couldn't trust anybody and usually if they did they wind up being the person that did it you know. So he created a whole family that you could follow over the series and I think as the series went on there was many people who read it for what happened

to the people this for the mystery plot. As a matter of fact there is a there's a clip I want to play from the series which is a little exchange between Spencer and the character of Hawke which was part of the family. Going up against the toughest guns in Boston I need someone to cover my backside. You'll have to be another Somebody that's why I came here to ask you to quit because you know I can't quit. So Flaherty that. Tear you away. You could just if I want to quit Flaherty. Ruth Spencer just like you. Somebody break one of the next 30 please speak with me a hole not a you got to allow yourself black people out in the street. Jo it's me me me when you become such an authority on black people just people. There you go breaking the stereotype scale Yeah yeah and he also you know did what he did by opening up this genre which it kind of got

and it wasn't very popular because it hadn't changed much from the 40s was to open up doors to crime and series characters that had families and crime situations where sometimes justice was not going to be served by the law and you had to take it into your own hands and he made that OK and pretty palatable with most people. Calvin Trillin writer I wonder if you have a favorite book or a favorite passage from all of his works. I'm not sure I have a favorite I. I like I tended to like the ones with Hawk in them. Hawk played a varying role in the book sometimes there was a lot of stuff about hawk and sometimes he was barely there or not there at all. I would just point out of the first clip that you played. There are some things other than the dialogue an interesting one is the is the scene sitting there in that bar that what I think of as the

Ritz looking out on public gardens you can see it is on the public aren't you. You could sort of feel it and I mean he was exactly he was very good at it. You knew exactly where you were and the other thing was sort of a throwaway line about Susan which was is I don't know what you call her companion girlfriend something longtime companion and I think Time magazine used to have a phrase for that great and good friend. But it said Susan was always late except when it. Found it really caught. I mean that's the other thing that you get from the Spencer character that was unusual for a detective is that he was very forthright about how he felt about Susan. Well I hate to be a woman about it but that's what brought me to be interested in his book because I loved the Susan relationship of course I love the Hawke relationship being a black woman but

you know and when Avery Brooks played that was even more interesting because you know you had some guy but I have to tell you Calvin that that relationship was really powerful I thought oh yeah I absolutely agree and of course is as has been mentioned in the obituaries I believe he he dedicated every book he wrote to his wife Joan which must have been that must be a world record. Have that many books. And we are so mean that John was a model then Kate for Susan. I don't know. I mean you write what you know but I think Joan's very different and OK. And Joan would have written a very different book. OK we'll take that. One of the things I liked about their relationship is that they lived in a house that had each had a floor and one they shared which I thought spoke again to the Susan Spencer relationship as well. Very independent but together you know one book where they try to live together Spencer and Susan and it doesn't work at all. Remember the name of that one. But

now they have to they have to go back to their previous arrangement. Well I think that he was quite the local treasurer and he's going to be greatly missed. I was surfing the web and found this fabulous blog written by a woman it's called Poems and novels blogspot. And she wrote this I have read Spenser every year since twenty two and I'm 35 now. I can't imagine ever walking into Borders again and seeing a new Robert B Parker on the new and never seeing a new Robert B Parker on the newly released shelf. I can can't imagine missing him. I'm not just mourning Robert B Parker or thinking of his wife and children. I mourn Spencer. Thank you Robert B Parker from the bottom of my literary heart. I know there's at least one more. I mean he had several in the can so there's a Jesse Stone come in next week and I think in the fall there's a Spencer. So there's so people can. Yeah yeah yeah yeah you got to look at the ranch of all of the drawl in other words.

Well I thank you both for talking to me Calvin Trillin and Kate Mannus. Thank you so much. We're going to go out with a little bit. Well we hope to have a theme song from ABC TV series Spencer. But you can find it on the web. Thanks to all of our guests. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show by visiting our website WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley. Today Show was engineered by Jane pic and produced by Chelsea Murray.