WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley This is the Cali Crossley Show. We're talking about music this hour kicking things off with a far cry. They're a tight knit collective of 18 Musicians that's expanding the boundaries of orchestral repertoire and experimented with the way music is performed and experienced. They don't have a conductor. They play standing up and they move in a way that inspired one reviewer to liken them to a flock of birds wheeling in the sky. They started out broke and determined. Today they have a European tour on the roster and a choice gig as the resident orchestra at the Gardner Museum. From there we talk to him a price in his new book he says it's time for hip hop to find its way into the black church and time for the black church to welcome it. Up next rethinking music from classical performances to the church pews. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Jim Howard. Police in New York have given an all clear after a

suspicious package this morning forced the evacuation of two World Trade Center. A police spokesman says an X-ray of the package showed what appeared to be a grenade. After closer inspection authorities say it was only a novelty grenade saying it is time for a fundamental change of course U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki moon is calling on the Syrian government and opposition forces to observe a cease fire and adhere to a six point plan to bring peace to the country. The war this watching however with their skeptical eyes since and many promises previously made by the government have not been kept with the exception of only scattered violence Bonds says Syria does appear to be calm today since the ceasefire took place. Meanwhile Russia's UN envoy says the Security Council could approve a resolution tomorrow for U.N. observers. George Zimmerman the neighborhood watch volunteer who says he fatally shot 17 year old Trayvon Martin makes his first court appearance at this hour from Sanford Florida NPR's Greg Allen reports. Zimmerman's lawyer is expected to ask the judge to release his client on bail.

George Zimmerman arrived was booked into the Seminole County Jail last night after turning himself into law enforcement. His new attorney Mark O'Mara says Zimmerman will plead not guilty to charges of second degree murder. He worries though that all the news coverage may make it difficult for his client to get a fair trial in Seminole County. I think if the trial was held today would be extraordinarily difficult. We're going to have some time between now and any eventual trial that should occur. I'm hoping things will calm down I'm hoping the community truly will let us do our job. O'Mara said on ABC he expects to ask for the charges to be dismissed under Florida's Stand Your Ground law. Greg Allen NPR News Sanford Florida. The Coast Guard is investigating reports of an oil sheen in the Gulf of Mexico NPR's Debbie Elliott reports the patch of surface oil is near Wells operated by Shell. The Coast Guard is sending a helicopter to the site some 130 miles southeast of New Orleans. Petty Officer Bill Cole Klock says a pollution officer will examine what's been reported as a light chain on the Gulf. It is a rainbow sheen. And dimensions of approximately one mile by 10 miles in length.

Shell Oil has also dispatched a skimmer vessel to the scene for cleanup and to investigate the source of the oil. The company says there's no indication the sheen originated from its wells but is sending the response ship as a precaution. The sheen is about 50 miles from this side of the Deepwater Horizon explosion two years ago which killed 11 rig workers and spewed some 200 million gallons of oil into the Gulf. Debbie Elliott NPR News. Unemployment claims jumped last week to the highest level in two months the Labor Department says weekly claims jumped 13000 to a seasonally adjusted average of three hundred eighty thousand. On Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average is up 160 points at twelve thousand nine hundred sixty seven the Nasdaq is up thirty nine points at three thousand fifty five and the S&P 500 is up 17 points at thirteen eighty six. This is NPR News. Good afternoon from the WGBH radio newsroom in Boston I'm Christina Quinn with the local stories we're following. A Massachusetts man convicted of conspiring to help al Qaeda has been sentenced to 17 and a half years in prison. Tareq Muhanna an American grew up in a wealthy

Boston suburb of Sudbury. He was sentenced in U.S. District Court on four terror related charges and three counts of lying to authorities. The 29 year old mana faced up to life in prison. Prosecutors recommended a 25 year sentence while Madonna's lawyer said he should get no more than six and a half years in prison. Madonna was convicted of traveling to Yemen to seek training in a terrorist camp with the intention of going on to Iraq to fight U.S. soldiers there. Authorities are looking for three men they allege scammed a 92 year old man out of $90000 for odd jobs they did around his home. Police say the three men showed up at the victim's home in February in a red GMC pickup truck with Maine license plates and offered to do small jobs. A detective tells the Eagle Tribune the men did some yard work in painting but were charging an exorbitant amount of money for substandard work. Police were alerted by the victim's bank which noticed in a regular spending pattern and put a freeze on his accounts. Police in Rhode Island are investigating a threatening letter sent to a teenage atheist at the center of a dispute over a high school prayer banner. JR TV reports that the handwritten note to Jessica Ahlquist

warns that the police won't watch her forever and that quote We will get you. Police in Cranston are investigating the 16 year old to successfully challenge the constitutionality of a banner at Cranston High School West which contained the words Our Heavenly Father and amen. The weather forecast for this afternoon Mostly cloudy with scattered showers and isolated thunderstorms some thunderstorms may produce small hail. Temperatures will be in the mid 50s tonight will see Cloudy With A Chance of rain showers in the evening lows around 40. Right now it's 47 degrees in Boston 50 in wester and 50 in Providence. Support for NPR comes from the Wallace Foundation a source of ideas for improving education and enrichment for children both in and out of school at Wallace Foundation dot org. This is WGBH and the time is one of six. Weeks. Good afternoon I'm Cally Crossley in 2009. A far cry became the orchestra in residence at the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum. We're listening to their

performance of last round by a Boston based composer as Waldo goalie of joining me today to talk about the classical music scene in Boston are two of the criers Sara darling who plays Viola and violinist Annie robot. Welcome to you both. Thank you thanks. So you know as often happens when there is success and I'd have to say that you all are successful in orchestra in residence at the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum. It looks like I happen like that you know two seconds ago you were you know just walked in and all fell together but in fact you've been really pulling this group together for several years I want to know something about that journey so let me start with you Sarah. How did you come together. Well I actually joined the group abode a year into its existence. But I was there from the very beginning sort of watching the criers make this happen. I remember sort of keeping an eye on that because of course they were already my friends doing conservatory sort of

watching a whole bunch of people with instrument cases sort of go into rooms and come out again and look exhausted on the one hand inspired on the other I sort of heard stories about how to get 17 people schedules and wished into the same space and it was it was a huge procedure. I can't imagine what that your studio estimate must have been like organizationally how many of you are in the groove now and tell us what what everybody plays we know that you played the viola but others in the group. Well I think we are currently 18 we are violinists feel lists cellists and bassists. And you know what else would you like to know that. I'll turn over to me now. So when you put together a group if you're at the New England Conservatory I mean everybody there is a wonderful musician I'm imagining since I can't play anything so it seems to be that all of you would be expert musicians. How do you look among all of that wealth of talented musicians and say ha

I found a soul mate in music. That's a fantastic question. Well there's chemistry and playing as there isn't communication of all sorts. And so I think that there was some natural chemistry and there were connections that that that went beyond the conservatory as well so not everybody in the group even from the beginning had been a student at the conservatory. But many of us had had been there together and others had been at summer festivals together or at other schools before that. The Cleveland Institute of Music I think a few people did their undergraduate degrees there and actually two of our members are twin sisters So my question goes back a long ways. And so I think that it was it was. A lot about camaraderie and just who is excited about this kind of endeavor. And it wasn't started with we didn't start the group with the intention of forming a nonprofit organization and trying to establish a residency at the Gardner Museum we started the group to say hey there's all this great repertoire and we'd really like to play it so

she would put on some concerts and and that was just so much fun and so successful both from the standpoint of the musicians and the audience members that we decided to see what we might do to further that. So Sara we just played a beautiful piece that you all play and it sounds it's gorgeous sounds like wonderful classical music is some of us who appreciate classical music might recognize but you're the name of your group is a far cry so you've got to be a far cry from something so trying to figure out does that speak to your choice of repertoire as Andy has said or does that speak to you the way you embrace classical music. What does a far cry mean in this context. The million dollar question. I would say that a far cry means something a little bit different to every individual. But of course as you're saying the sort of the big dramatic sticking point is this word from a far cry from far cry from what it's not

what we want to distance ourselves really in any way from what's already there it's just that there's so much more that can happen. So I would say I mean personally I would say it's more sort of a far cry in a particular direction a far cry to something and what that what that something is for us is really the idea that you can take a collective of musicians each one of us with. Our own individual approach which stays we try to sort of design systems within the group that allow our individuality to really remain intact to remain celebrated. That's actually something that comes to the fore when we when we program for our seasons because rather than just sort of smushing a whole bunch of pieces together and discussing we we encourage individual members to come in with their sort of complete concepts for a program and then the group sort of looks at it from there. But yes so on the one hand you've got you've got individuals who are sort of very you know

very sort of fully formed. On the other hand we have to find a way of coming together and sort of speaking with a unified voice or you could say you know crying with a unified voice this concept of you know the cry that extends out into wherever you want in the universe so that that's a really it's a and use the word communication before and it is an exercise a black belt jujitsu exercise in communication trying to find exactly the way to bring these different voices into harmony. And I guess since I'm fooling around with metaphors when you bring something into harmony it doesn't necessarily mean that you're all doing the same thing the great thing about harmony is that you've got slightly different notes that combine to form a chord and then that chord becomes sort of greater than the sum of its parts. Well that's beautifully put. I'm going to play another piece you guys

but but before I do and I just want to ask this is a part of I thought it was wonderful what Sarah's just express but the other part of that I've read about you is that you want to be a community grounded if you will. And I notice that you're taking a page from Community Music Works which is based in Providence Rhode Island. People want to go back into the kallah cross-racial archives we've done an interview with those folks because they are MacArthur Genius is now. But you know their own thing is that the music should not be apart from the community that in fact it is community so it should be accessible and you got to know that and I'm sure you've heard this before that for a lot of people classical music doesn't feel accessible. Right. Yeah and we are we are very aware of that and we we have a lot of respect for the community music works people and so when we were looking to have our own space to rehearse and we took like you said a page from their book and we have a storefront space and it's in Jamaica Plain and people walk in off the street and are just curious what's going on so we'll get the occasional mother with her stroller and her

little one that they just come in and listen or you know whoever else walks on by. And it's pretty exciting. And we also we we try to break the barriers down in other ways too besides our process being a little bit more visible. Like how we speak with our audiences. Most of our concerts are actually I think at all since. Yeah. And. We know there's no fourth wall. You're not just up there playing you're talking to them you know were you talking to them and we communicate because we have no conductor we have to rely on each other and so much more of a physical sense than you might get with a full sized Symphony Orchestra. We simply just wouldn't be able to hold it together if we if we didn't communicate with our bodies and with our breathing and so even just within the stage there's a lot of life and when people come see us perform and I think and we mention that. But you should articulate that you know there is no conductor and you play standing up and that makes it was very different looking anyway so it would seem to me to be

make you operate or play differently as you in that way. Is that right. Totally. It opens everything up physically it gives us a whole new repertoire of gestures and rhetoric to work with. And I think that is probably why sort of the number one comment would you say the number one comment we get after we perform which is something we sort of have to struggle with sometimes people will say we just love watching you play. You look like you're having so much fun. And it's true. We are having fun at the same time like there's a little voice I think inside each one of our hearts that says. Did you also enjoy listening to. I'm sure I did and I'm going to play another piece so that people can hear what why they're loving watching you play. Now this is a recording from a far cry concert at Jordan Hall in 2009. And here you are performing Franz von Bieber's butt Tahlia 14 strings. Cool.

Say I forget I'm doing a show here I'm listening and I'm enjoying listening to you play. So there you have it. That's a really energetic and lovely piece. And I can imagine in that wonderful space at the Isabella Gardner Museum we should say it's a wonderful new space that fits you all perfectly. Talk a little bit about that if you would any. I'd love to we love the new hall it's just it's such a gem it's a treat to play in. And it opens up so many more possibilities because it's perfect

square with audience on all four sides. So we've been thinking about ways that we might set ourselves up. That would be different from your traditional concert experience and it just adds a whole new level of creativity but the the sound in there we we can just go and play. We don't have to fight the hall to get something to be clear or to get a certain kind of sound it's a very honest and lovely hall. And it also allows you to with the physicality that you like to bring to your performance just to use that space in that way. Absolutely. You were talking before about the fourth wall I mean the thing that I love love about this hall is that there is no fourth wall. So you're always I mean you're always playing to somebody whether it's somebody sort of across the space whether it's somebody in one of the balconies and it's actually really striking because of the depth of the hall is so narrow that on the upper balconies it's it's only sort of one person deep.

So you see your entire audience you're surrounded by you're surrounded by audience and you can really sort of have a personal connection with each person that your eyes meet. So it's real surround sound as real surround you know yeah but it's the sound that surrounded it. I love it. All right well much more to talk about we're talking about classical music and the classical music scene with two members of a far cry the Boston based orchestra. I'm Kelly Crossley. You're listening to eighty nine point seven. WGBH Boston Public Radio. Funding for our programs comes from you.

And the Boston Speaker Series 7 evenings at Symphony Hall with a lineup of speakers that includes two former presidents a New York Times best selling author a miracle survival story and much more Boston speakers series dot org. And safety insurance committed to safe driving safety insurance would like to remind Massachusetts drivers that it is now illegal to text and drive. You can learn more at safety insurance dot com. Be safe don't text and drive. Freddie King influenced generations of guitarists. Freddie always had a real dry immediate sound and sling that 355 over his shoulder and plug into a Fender amp that was turning all the way up to 10 and he would govern the guitar just by how far he picked it. The late Freddie King gets inducted into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame later on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News this afternoon at Ford. He had only the 9.7 WGBH. What did Romeo and Juliet really sound like. More than four centuries ago become a WGBH sustainer and everything you hear tonight and refuse the

name will sound a little bit different. Be still my Haven bought us. That's because sustainers break their support down into monthly installments that automatically renew you. You set the amount and every month your support helps eighty nine point seven stay connected and reduce on air fundraising become a sustainer online at WGBH dot org. Great question and it's a great question and that's a great question. It's a great question. Rick great question on fresh air you'll hear unexpected questions and unexpected answers this afternoon at 2:00. You're on eighty nine point seven TV age. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just joining us we're talking about the classical music scene in Boston with a focus on a far cry the Boston based orchestra. We're listening to their performance of last round by a Boston based composer.

As of Aldo gold enough I'm joined by Sarah Darling who plays Viola and anywhere but a violinist with the orchestra. So. I have a copy of a picture that was sent out when you guys were named as the Isabella Stewart Gardner museum's newest Chamber Orchestra in residence. And it's very Vanity Fair. You're here all in black you know. It was sprawled out in the in the garden there and you're looking very you know new Hollywood. We're just you know not how you think of a chamber orchestra. It sort of has. You know wig in a musty costume feeling to it. So I think we should talk about your take on chamber orchestra but just for those of us who are not immersed in the classical world what's the difference between a chamber orchestra and you know a smaller sort of symphony orchestra. It's basically numbers and instrumentation. I mean when you're talking about you

know the real symphony orchestra you're talking about a hundred people on stage a sultry string sections brass sections you've got woodwinds you've got your percussion you've got your conductor. That's true and you don't have a conductor That's right. Yeah and a far cry currently is a string orchestra. So most of the time we only play the repertoire which has been designed for just strings Occasionally we branch out and invite some of our winter playing friends in and that opens up another area. But for the most perch until now we've been playing string music which I would say has an unbelievable history. I mean if you if you look at the traditional Symphony Orchestra repertoire you're basically looking at about 200 years worth of repertoire a sort of sense of the symphony orchestra really got going. But if you're talking about a string group you can go all the way back to really to the Middle Ages. You know we're going to open our next season for

instance with a piece by Hildegard funding in which Ok admittedly it is a vocal piece that we're playing on our instruments because we like it. It's Yeah it really it really I would say it opens up a lot of possibilities for us to have. To have just the string group now any does that mean that you all are very different in your approach to chamber music ship musicianship as opposed to if I drop in somewhere in Pittsburgh or I don't know San Francisco with the Chamber Orchestra. Be very different from what you all are doing in a far cry. In some ways perhaps but in other ways definitely not I think that chamber orchestra is everywhere have a love for the intimacy that you can have in a smaller ensemble. But the power of the power of having more than one person per party. You know the feeling of a large family in a way when you have a group of 18 on the stage. So I think that many of us

do play in other's string orchestra's Chamber Orchestra is and each one has its own personality and that can be really fun to see how other UN conducted orchestras rehearse or how conducted ensembles work and what the priorities are. I think there's there is a lot of common thread. So how would you describe the personality of a far cry. Any goodness personality I don't think there is. Priest OK I think that one of the things that I find so striking about this group is the variety of personalities because we have. We have a real gamut and it adds a lot of depth and complexity to the group and sometimes has some friction to the group. But but in the end it makes us all the richer to have to have such a variety of takes on life and what's important ways of expressing ourselves kinds of playing are violinists. If anyone ever

comes to a concert and just watches our violinists we all have such different ways of playing our instruments but we can all imitate each other now because we've been working at it for five years and that makes a difference. So you know you bring up the generational thing but it's obvious looking at you all that you know. I would imagine and the Pittsburgh orchestra no offense Pittsburgh you know everybody's a lot older and you're not. So you have some musical influences. I know that are speak of your generation. So tell me about your musical influences that I asked Sarah outside of classical music and I think that's me. Yeah I see. Oh goodness well they're getting broader every day and seem to be listening to figures writing music. The last month than I ever have before the group for instance. I know this is about a far cry but we were on a tour of the South recently and we were in New Orleans and Memphis. It's my hometown. No wonder I'm finding myself drawn to some blues music

that I might not have. Thought so much about before but I also love folk and the Cajun Creole Music from New Orleans is wonderful rock Beatles. Yeah I get all that you know a little let it go for you down New Orleans way where my other set of people are from. It's Sarah what about you. Musical influences. Gosh. Well since we're hanging out in New Orleans I will give a shout out to the Black Eagle jazz band which is a New Orleans style jazz is just some of my absolute favorite stuff to listen to in the world anywhere and that comes directly from my grandfather. Every time I went over there growing up I'd walk into the living room and be surrounded with these old wicker speakers just something involving this music out. Yeah you know like any and all over the map I think everybody in the group is which is great. I tend to these days I've been listening to a lot of Tanka music which has been

incredibly fun sort of feeling a slight obsession with the dance that I'm currently undergoing treatment for. By doing it OK. And yeah I'd say I'd say a lot of ethnic music is also sort of where it's at for me in particular is sort of Eastern European stuff. My God just listening to listening to western music ok you got a lot of for for a lot of THREE FOR YOU YOU BUM BUM BUM BUM BUM BUM. Head over. Head over to Bulgaria. You put it on. But I have to do it to do Yep that 2003's and see you never know which foot you're on. So you know that stuff definitely turns me on. Well I want to let everybody hear another piece by a group. This is from a far cry is 2009 debut album. This is Elegy the slow movement from checkouts caves serenade for strings. That's just beautiful. That's really beautiful. I really really

enjoy that ever since I've been listening to it this morning I've been very much enjoying it. So there was a quote in an article written by or written about a far cry. This is from a Boston Phoenix article I thought it was interesting so I'm going to read it here and get you to respond. So as Boston is to classical music what Seattle was to grunge a supersaturated solution of classical musicians. So if you think about Boston being super saturated with classical musicians How does a far cry distinguish itself in this mix. What do you say oh gosh I'm eating my words because I was I was the person that originally used that phrase when in an interview. There you go. And she you know and I stand by it I think Boston's a place that is so extraordinary for just having classical music and all of its different forms and guises. So what do we do.

I would say it's the thing that allows a far cry to stand out is the fact that we just to watch this is going to sound so sort of egotistical but we do things that we want to do. We do the stuff that we love. If there's something we want to try out experiment with we just we just go for it. If we want to design you know a crazy program and bring it to audiences and challenge them with it you know we're going to go for that and I can't wait to see what the audiences response to some of the programs we're going to we're going to toss in next year is going to be once a crazy time what would you consider a crazy program. Gosh well it sort of sticks in my head that we're doing next year is called subtraction and it has. It sort of originated I believe from the idea of Haydn's farewell Symphony which is a piece that gradually loses musicians as the symphony goes along in the last movement they just get up and walk off stage wound up by a Y and ends at the very end you're just left with one little lonely pair of violin players just doing a little

duet and then they walk up to you and at the end of the piece. So this this idea of sort of music sort of being subtracted down the silence. So this this music the sort of old classical music is going to get paired with with some John Cage. And of course one of his pieces which is you know this play so much with the idea of silence is four minutes and 33 seconds which is. A musician or musicians onstage existing in silence for precisely four minutes and 33 seconds. And what that does to your brain as an audience member is just awesome. Well well share who John Cage is for people who don't know John Cage is one of the bad boys of the 20th century. He composed as he sort of started out composing in slightly more traditional ways. And the longer he stayed in the world and sort of observed what he saw around him the more wacky and wonderful his music became. I guess his real His real sort of shtick

was to it was to write music that deals with Chance operations. So rather than a piece of music which is sort of guided by a narrative you're instead dealing with a piece of music that might reflect the random pattern or pattern of rocks that you see in like a Zen garden. So a totally different way of dealing with the aesthetic world. So I can't wait to see sort of what people make of that stuff. You're listening to a 9.7 WGBH an online at WGBH dot org. We're talking about classical music with a focus on the Boston based orchestra a far cry. I'm joined by criers Sara darling you just heard her who plays Viola and Annie robot who plays the violin. So what kind of response do you get from audiences who are in Boston in the supersaturated Boston classical arena. They embrace a lot of just classical pieces and you guys do that but you go far. What kind of response do you get.

We get all sorts of responses and one of the things that we really love is when people share their responses with us after a concert whether it's at a reception or just sticking around after the concert. Sometimes people e-mail their thoughts and we've gotten everything from comments on the repertoire we choose to. We got we had been very long comment once the way we dress but was that were you dressing oddly or what would you have done. I think you know I think this was just someone who had a real eye for fashion. Dr. Oz OK. Things that might be helpful for us. OK. But one of the things that we've already talked about that Sarah said is something that we simultaneously love and sometimes shy away from is the number of comments we get about how we communicate on the stage. But when it boils down to it I think that we're all proud to be able to express and to. Be leaders and followers because in every concert we all fill both of those

roles. We all take turns leading our sections. And so when you're leader you step up to the front and you take the reins and you bring the group with you in as a section member. You have to humble yourself and really fit into someone else's skin and anticipate their every move. And I think that. We get a lot of comments about this stuff because it is something that makes us pretty unique in the Boston area for for Chamber Orchestra. Well it's a little bit occupied if you don't mind me saying you know you you know it's approach that's you know that's I thought about that as I was reading how you didn't have to bring up the fact that even though you are creating these different programs you're doing this exciting stuff you're going to far. Listen you have worked with some of the biggies like Yo-Yo Ma. Well how thrilling was that. That was pretty thrilling. That was absolutely awesome. How did that come together. Oh my gosh. We got lucky yeah. He was playing on the opening Gardner concert we were playing on the opening Gardner concert we said well heck this is silly.

We should we should play together and so we asked if he would be willing to play the Haydn C Major teleconverter with us and fortunately he said yes. So what I'm hearing is yeah it was very very memorable. All right well you're a far cry for sure. An enjoyable one at that and I've certainly enjoyed talking with the two of you and good luck. Thanks it's been a pleasure. You were going to go out on a far cry performance of battalion for 10 strings composed by Franz von Bieber. I've been speaking with two of a far cry Z criers Sarah Darling who plays Viola and violinist and. Coming up we'll talk about the relationship between hip hop and the black church. This is eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston Public Radio. WGBH programs exist because of you. And Greenberg Traurig an international

law firm with offices in Boston and more than 30 other cities worldwide addressing the complex legal needs of businesses from startups to public companies global reach local resources GTI law dot com. And Wind River environmental providing septic grease and drain cleaning services that can help keep your home and your business running smoothly. Your septic and grease pumping service experts w our environmental dot com and the members of the WGBH sustainer program whose gifts of five ten or twenty dollars a month make up the most reliable income for the programs you love on eighty nine point seven. Learn more about sustaining membership at WGBH dot org. On the next FRESH AIR Fernando Trueba the director of the Oscar nominated animated musical Chico and Rita. Also Jason DeParle who covers poverty for the New York Times examines have a 1996 Welfare Reform Law has affected the poor during the recession and has some politicians now want to apply those welfare reforms to Medicaid and food stamps. Join us.

It's afternoon here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Hi I'm Laura Carlo from WGBH a sister station classical New England. Join us on June 23rd at our Brighton studios for our annual classical festival. You'll attend an authentic 18th century Boston classical salon. Watching the silent comedies with a live ragtime pianist and more are joined the classical club with the gift of one hundred twenty dollars and will say thanks with two complimentary tickets online a classical New England dot org. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley. Joining us in the studio is Emmett price chair of the department of African-American student Studies at Northeastern University. He's also the founding pastor at the community of love Christian Fellowship Church in Alston and he's here to discuss a new book that he edited titled The black church and Hip-Hop Culture toward bridging the generational divide. Emmett price Welcome back.

Cali thank you so much for having me here. So. Typically we don't hear Church black church and hip hop in the same sentence. And that's your point. Absolutely. And that's the point. You know one of the things that we find out is that in the black church as in most churches the age group between 18 and 45 years absent and we look at the age group that was really popularized hip hop culture back to the 70s 80s and 90s. The irony is is that age group 18 to 45. So I begin to ask myself Well what how come this conversation about spirituality and or religion is not happening in both places and the realisation is it was. And so this book really comes about to try to challenge both the church using the black church as a case study in a fulcrum but also hip hop culture to suggest that we're both talking about very similar things doing it in different ways. So why don't we try to honor and appreciate one another and write really try to bridge this generational gap as opposed to allow it to fester the way it has.

Well wouldn't part of that disconnect be from those who own the church who may. I'm just saying may have looked somewhat askance at what they perceive to be hip hop culture. Absolutely. And vice versa those from hip hop you know culture who are tired of the hypocrisy and tired of you know all of the conversations about money and prosperity and not enough about you know spiritual issues and family issues and community issues. So. I think it happens both ways and that's really what the book tries to attack. We have you know 9000 pieces in this book by 18 different authors coming from different perspectives. You know the first section of the book talks about from hip from civil rights to hip hop and really talks about that changing of the guard as it were from the civil rights movement to the emergence of the hip hop generation and really what happened and what didn't happen. You know in terms of the changing of the guard what didn't happen. Well I would always argue that the people who fought in the civil rights movement often were so tired and busy to come home and debrief their children what really was going on what the real

manifesto and what the real fight was. So many of us who grew up in the 70s and 80s we had our Africa medallions on and our flat tops and you know workin takeoff and all this stuff and we were you know power to the people in revolution and all this stuff. But we really didn't have an essence of what the real behind the scenes issues were. And so there was almost like a continuation of the fighting without the strategy. And the result was that the kids who would consider themselves hip hop are because the hip hop person and we should be clear that hip hop is more than music and a lot of people as you say it is just music it's it's bigger than that. Just thought well this is not an institution that serves me at this point in my life. Absolutely. And part of it is you know for those of us who you know you know came up in the 70s and 80s again we cognitively understood the battles. But in our youthfulness and in our desire to kind of have those things that young people you know desire to have. We didn't really understand the disconnect so we we and I would argue it wasn't into the 90s and even into 2000 and we realized that you

know Mommy and Daddy and Grandpa and Grandma have worked 35 years in 40 years and got to the point of retirement. But then the economy you know turns and they lose their jobs and now all of a sudden we're putting pieces together. Now we understand what was going on back then in terms of fighting to have the jobs in order to you know be able stay there for 30 40 years. And so you know there's a challenge here in terms of how to go back and try to repair and so this book really calls to arm both the church and the hip hop community to say you know what this thing has gotten so far to hand let's push pause on this and let's return back to the essence and try to do some repair here. Now as we've said hip hop is not just music but one of the ways that you are trying to do that is addictive. Hip hop musicians who are saying about playing about talking about spirituality. So I want to play one this is Kelly Marie yarn who goes by k m y and this is her track called Revival. Everything. Safer Do you. Think. They can. Break. Me. Thank you. Good.

Grief. So I mean there is very much a clear expression of a faith expression as people would say. Absolutely. But I am certain that there are a lot of folks sitting in pews who are like that is not music to me this speaking of spirituality. Absolutely. And you know and that's the challenge and one of things that we do at our church is we invite folks like Kelly and Apple Jacks and folks you know who do gospel rapper gospel hip hop or gospel R&B in because one of the challenges of the tradition as it were is that we get we get caught up in the clothing and they really don't focus on the content in the context. And so at one point what we consider traditional music was that once it was contemporary At one point and it was going against the grain of what was existed before that. And so we kind of lose track of that so that

so this music is being considered contemporary and vanguard if you will or even Avatar for some people who really is young people trying to find their own voice and trying to find expression that allows them to speak about their own sensitivity towards spirituality and our religion and their reconciliation of life as it is now and how it should be. So I mean we we want to. I encourage folks to not necessarily continue to throw out the baby with the bathwater so that the community of love Christian Fellowship Church and also in which you found in your pastor there. How does using Kelly's music and allowing the inclusion of hip hop in some various forms begin to bridge the divide you're concerned about. It helps folks to really and we teach this that that if God as we you know use the term I was in the Christian faith of God is as big as God is to be able to create the whole world and then some Then God can really you know deal with you know our different approaches to expression. And so it's really not about

the the the skin that the music comes in but it's about the context and the intent. And so we try to teach folks that there is a vast repertoire of expressions of faith in his spirituality. And so on Friday nights when we come together 8 o'clock on Friday nights we often have a couple times a month where we invite different guest artist to come in and do a different you know repertoire from from gospel rap to traditional gospel music to contemporary gospel music to you know some of the you know quartet singing in an accent or so we try to you know exemplified the full repertoire as best as we can do it. I want to play another piece as you mention that you have used in your services this is Ernest Owens who goes by Apple Jacks. And this track is titled Jesus high. Thank. You. Q A Google.

Image of the Kubrick suggests. When you. See. This. Book going to. Test the push. This. Was an. Insecure Grace six weeks ago. But. We were. Really good. So here's a question. Is it not. Has a not ever been thus that there is a generational divide between you know younger folk and older folk. And I'm wondering if there is something going on in African-American church that that was significant to you in a way that's different from just a regular old generational divide where young people are fighting with old folks. Sure I mean generational you know divide is something that goes back to you know Adam and Eve you know and near children their children's children. And the reality is it will always exist you know particularly with the technology that comes about in the information age that we live in our young people will have more opportunity.

And access to information then we did relative to AIDS. For me what I realize is that many young people here feel ostracized they feel disenfranchised and it has to do with some external societal you know situations that are going on. But when you really talk to them they wish that they can relate to their grandmother and they wish that their parents could relate to them. And one of the things about the church in the church community is it has always been an infrastructure built on families and built on multigenerational you know existence and so I think it's been a point now where you don't have young people going to church with their with their parents in the grandparents if for some reason it's OK. And the challenge is how can we create a scenario where we feed everybody every Sunday or every Friday or every Would every day you worship. And so it has to be a point where we open up our comfort zones and allow some other stuff to come in to accentuate what we already have so there's nothing wrong. How much for additional is I love a hymn and a

spiritual and oratory and I can talk to you know today is gone. But I also love the new expressions which allow new generations to express themselves in ways that past generations have. How do you get kids to look at what is you know long in the tooth institution I'm not saying that in a bad way as as the black church of using air quotes here. It is as relevant to them in 21st century. Well I think you make the connections and I think many people over time have so if you look in the 1920s and Thomas Dorsey was a phenomenal blues musician was able to captivate a whole new audience in terms of gospel music that he created gost music which was being thrown out of the church because it was too bluesy and so evil you know in the 1960s somebody from Detroit named James Cleveland comes and turns a gospel choir into something that was nouveau you know. And all of a sudden everybody wants a gospel choir you know even the Catholic churches and even the white churches once wanted wanted a gospel choir. And so at the moment that he did that it was again it was in vogue. You know you didn't do that. And then Kirk Franklin comes in the early

90s and starts doing his kind of hippity hoppity stuff with STOMP and you know and all of a sudden we find that there's a new movement in the hymnals to include some contemporary music and you find your line Adams doing it and Fred Hammond doing it in all the funk in the groove and stuff that's been you know added to gospel music so it's a part of the you know the evolution of music and it happens in all genres and all of you know expressions if you will. But because of that tension of the tradition of the black church as it were we find more fighting here. And my argument is that the kids the young people in as the greatest victims of this fighting. And so because. You're just pretty traditional. Absolutely so that makes you a little bit you know unique in your approach to this and I'm wondering how that's going down I mean you are a part of a very traditional institution which you've just said many of its traditions mean a lot to you but recognizing you're trying to do something else right now

really puts you on the outside I'm sure a lot of people like me like what is he doing. Well they they they do and that's unfair and I appreciate that you know for me the value of people individuals and families is more valuable to me in the traditions you know my goal is to help individuals and families. And if I have to be the person to go outside the comfort zone to go outside the box to do that. Fair enough I'm willing to do that. And again you know you will not hear me bash tradition and you will not hear me you know bash the black church but our church community of love Christian Fellowship is not a spouse to be a black church is a spouse to be a church that uses the common denominator of love. As a focus of what we do so we accept the challenge to try to love one another and learn what that means within the context of building a church and and having worship and all of that. You know all the all the good stuff that comes with that. And so in that notion you know although I do study the black church I grew up in a black church and I am you know a historian of the black church and a scholar of you know the black church and

whatnot you know the the notion of what it is and what it means is very important. You know it's a part of American history if you will. But again the notion is my real focus is to reach lives and touch people who need to be touched in this 21st century that we live in. So let me bring up a contemporary situation is happening now it's the Trayvon Martin tragedy in Florida. And I just looked at a lot of the young people hitting the streets. It's really interesting because the parents of Trayvon Martin have as they've spoken to the press all spoke always spoken out of some faith expression. You know I praise God the Mother said you know you hear a lot of that this is a part of her vocabulary in her life. The kids in the street are like hey why don't they go do another for us here. So we're out in the street. And you're right there it's right there in front of you you see that hole. I don't see the relevance here. Show me something I've not seen it. You know that's a big bridge to to to make happen there.

This is Reverend Emmert Jiminy prize news British Cali and my folks hear me you know saying this you know until I'm blue in the face I believe that God created us as spiritual beings with two major challenges to figure out what it means to be human and what it means to be humane. And we keep screwing up the Old Testament is full of us grew into the New Testament is full of us screwing up and in this testament that we're in if you you know per se we still continue to screw up and so part of the issue is can we be honest with our children and say that part of the failure of humanity and the failure of us as humans is the fact that we don't take time enough to learn to love each other to realize that we have more similarities than differences to realize that if you're if your arm is cut and my arm is cut the blood is going to run riot. You know no matter what are our experiences of past have been and what our beliefs are. So is it an opportunity for us to find some common denominator. And yes this is murder or assassination of this young man was horrible. You know we've lost a 17 year old who

had much promise and and much opportunity to be a great citizen of this world. And my heart grieves for that. You know but again the fact that this thing has bubbled up into something where you know champion a starter making a whole lot of money on the sales of hoodies and Skittles is making a whole lot of money on the sales of Skittles and whatever brand of iced tea it is making a whole lot of money on the sale of ice you know ice tea because these props have been used as a political activist. You know props. I mean that is crazy. Then let's keep the main thing the main thing that this young man who shouldn't be did right now is did. And for me that's the tragedy of many around us who are focusing on so many other things as opposed to walking and talking with these young people who are grieving young people who are around the age of 17 and 16 and 15 who that could have been. We need to reach out and talk to them and reach out and listen to them because they know what's living on the streets is like you know right now many of us don't we're removed from that.

Those young people are these young people that we played some of their selections today. Are they able to draw. Some of those kids who are disaffected out there in the streets right now. Oh my God I mean we know what Kelly is doing with Apple Jacks is doing folks all around the country are making music that's relevant and is theologically sound music. I mean you know the funny thing about you know the attack on gospel hip hop and gospel rap if it were it was the realization many of these MCs are theologically trained. They've been to seminary they have Master's of divinity some of them are working on doctorates a ministry. And that gets lost in the the way that they look when they show up and and you know I have jeans on and I have a T-shirt that says I love God instead of having a suit with a tie on and a tie pin and a little button on a lapel that says Jesus on it you know. And so we get caught up in the skin as opposed to the context and so. Yes yes. Kelly is able to reach so many young people in recent ways that some of us preachers and scholars will never be able to reach. You know Apple Jacks is doing the same thing as he walks through Roxbury I'm at a pan in Dorchester and folks identify him as being somebody

who keeps it real and keeps it truthful and is able to say things in a way that they need to hear them whether they want to or not is the issue. But the way that they need to hear them so they're very relevant and what they do is ministry no question about it. In the book you combine some academic analysis of the situation as you've described here. But you say it with a sermon style and there are some prayers and here you decided to include prayers because well I thought it was appropriate for you know one of the funny things about the book is the we have 18 contributors including myself with two pieces. But over the cycle the five year cycle that it took to bring this book together some folks pulled out and I had to add new people in. And so Dean Alton Pollard who is the dean of the Howard divinity school down in Washington D.C. sent me a piece that he composed as he was doing a lecture down at Spellman on the back in the Nelly Tip Drill issue so Nelly is a hip hop artist who had a music video where he was

basically using some Misaki in this dick kind of visuals as it were. And Dean Pollard went down and gave such a masterful kind of description of not only the failure of young people to realize their history but some of the failure of older people to teach that history. And he did it in the form of a meditation. And so I used that as the beginning piece and I said Well in my traditional aspect of you know being from the church you can have a meditation without a benediction. And so I put a benediction on the end of it which was kind of a prayer. And we used the term. Will use a title to serve the present age of benediction which comes from an old Charles Wellesley hymn. And so that really talks about how we can wrap everything up in our prayer for the future that we can move forward with hope and justice. All right. Emmett price of been speaking with him and price he edited the new book The black church and Hip-Hop Culture toward bridging the generational divide. Thank you so much Emmett Emmett price is chair of the department

of African-American Studies at Northeastern University he's also the founding pastor at the community of love Christian Fellowship Church in Austin. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter. I've become a fan of the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook. We are a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.