WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm Cally Crossley This is the Cali Crossley Show. We're exploring the Yiddish art song in the 20th century Yiddish music was taking root with composers working to elevate it to the ranks of high culture. One of those composers was Lasar Weiner. He's considered the master of the Yiddish art song Born in Ukraine. He was a synagogue choir boy. He studied piano at Kiev conservatory after immigrating to New York in 1914. He played piano for silent movies along the way he composed more than 200 art songs songs that aim to capture a dying language and characterize the culture his work was recently honored at the Boston Jewish music festival this hour we honor it with Weiner son the composer and pianist. From there we talked to Jonathan also up about wine for Passover and Easter. Up next from the Lasar Wiener master class to raising the wine glass. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh. Republican presidential

front runner Mitt Romney is looking to the primaries in Wisconsin Maryland and the District of Columbia today to help him seal the GOP presidential nomination. But as NPR's David Welna reports Rick Santorum maintains he has no intention of dropping out of the race. Rick Santorum made four campaign stops through Wisconsin's industrial Fox Valley yesterday in his push to beat polls that have him running behind Mitt Romney. Here's Santorum in Oshkosh Wisconsin. I'm asking small town America rural America America right Wisconsin to come out and speak loudly. Santorum is trying to win over still undecided Wisconsinites such as Elliot linkers the ribbon on the fence right now. I like Rick because he's. He seems more. Down to earth and can relate to the working class Santorum vows he'll stay in the race no matter how today's voting goes. David Welna NPR News. RIP in

Wisconsin. President Obama's re-election campaign is running a new television ad in five swing states that paints Mitt Romney as a better friend to big oil than average Americans who are paying higher gas prices. However moments ago at a luncheon in Washington President Obama sought to remind the public that whomever is elected in November can expect to inherit a recovering economy not one that has already recovered too many Americans will still be looking for a job that pays enough to cover their bills or their mortgage. Too many citizens will still lack the sort of financial security that started slipping away years before. This recession hit his Republican rivals argued President Obama's policies are the reason why more jobs have not been created and the economy has not grown more quickly. Police in Oakland California are identifying the suspect in yesterday's deadly shooting at a Christian college as a former student of that school. From member station KQED in San Francisco Rachel Myrow reports police are beginning to reveal a possible

motive for the attack that has claimed at least seven lives. 43 year old One Goh allegedly went to or QOS University looking for a particular administrator but upon learning she was not there began shooting random victims in his path. Oakland Police Chief Howard Jordan told a local TV news station the South Korean national was also upset with former fellow nursing students because he was teased about his difficulties speaking English. One Goh has told police investigators he was expelled two months ago over behavioral issues including anger management. Chief Jordan says One Goh is cooperating with police and that he appears to have planned this attack for several weeks in advance. For NPR News I'm Rachel Myrow in San Francisco. At last glance the Dow is down more than 50 points at 13000 to eleven. This is NPR. Good afternoon from the WGBH radio newsroom in Boston I'm Christina Cohen former state treasurer Tim Cahill is the latest in a series of high profile politicians who have been accused of ethical violations while in office. Bobbsey asked Boston

College Law Professor George Brown if Cahill's indictments represents a new era of public intolerance for corruption in Massachusetts State politics. I think you're kind of getting a convergence of two trends here which is growth public interest in the phenomenon and really just sort of continue taking it and a newfound aggressiveness on the part of law enforcement to pursue new theories and push the envelope a little bit. So I do think we're seeing a change. Boston College professor George Brown's expertise is in government ethics the indictment of Tim Cahill comes on the heels of a nationwide report on state corruption see the Massachusetts results and leave your comments at WGBH news dot org. An appeals court will hear arguments tomorrow on an attempt to stop the handover to the British government of recorded interviews with former members of the Irish Republican Army. The interviews were part of a Boston College oral history project. The wife of an ex IRA gunman claims turning over the recordings could endanger her family. The New Hampshire Senate Education Committee is holding a hearing today on a House passed bill that would bar in-state tuition rates for college students in the

country illegally. Opponents argue some students brought into the country as children would be penalized unfairly. In sports the Washington Nationals host the Red Sox this afternoon for an exhibition game and the Bruins take on the Pittsburgh Penguins tonight at the garden. Lots of sunshine right now in the Boston area. Fifty two degrees in Worcester it's 54 degrees and in Providence it's 52 degrees tonight we can expect partly cloudy skies in the evening then becoming mostly cloudy with overnight lows in the lower 40s. Wednesday sunny and windy with highs in the lower 60s Support for NPR comes from the University of Arkansas Fullbright College of Arts and Sciences pursuing peace through education at Arkansas dot edu slash Fulbright. The time is 1 0 6. 0 0 0. Yes good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley. Today we're talking about the Yiddish sign. Recently the Boston Jewish music festival

celebrated the Yiddish art songs of Lasar Weiner who was considered the master of the Yiddish art song. We're listening to one of his compositions. He also the musician joining me in the studio is his son the hoodie Weiner a Pulitzer Prize winning composer pianist and conductor. Weiner recently performed some of his father's art songs at the Boston Jewish music festival. You do want to welcome back. Thank you thank you so much Kelly. I'm glad to be here as you know. I've just told you what I thought of you will have Should I repeat it. No no that's OK. Thank you very much. We were delighted to discover this artistry by your father and the connection to you of course. And it seemed when we were thinking about it perfect timing in that Passover starts on Friday evening of this week and so even though the songs are secular You just explained to me that there really is quite a spiritual connection so tell us

what an art song a Yiddish art song is all about and where that spirituality may lie. Of course Art songs we easily identify when we think of the songs by Schubert by Brahms by Hugo vote of. The wonderful things or songs called Mellow diba. You see and Ravel the French composers and many others Schoenberg more recently and they've been it's a sophisticated setting of poetry based first of all the individual feelings and musical training and the musical habits of the individual composer. But drawing on a very wide range of technical devices it's very sophisticated. It's almost like a penetration of the poetry through music or an amplification of the poetry with its alliance with music. Very different from another thing of great value for the folk song

or if not the folk song then the popular medium song songs for theater thong songs for dances I mean. Now our airwaves are just inundated by pops of one kind or another. Like it or not whether you get hip hop with you get rap with you get any number of the other things going back of course to the Beatles and before that Broadway musicals and Country and Western and the songs of the bayous and you know that just all of that is essentially a kind of American folk music. OVO it's not the same as folk music in the old country which was thought to come of absolutely out of the soul of the peasants or the common people. Of course those things had to be written in the first place or at least given an oral transmission. Well given that you've just identified some some many genres the music when you think

about Jewish music or that music which is identified as Jewish Where does the Yiddish art song sit on the spectrum where where is it good. It's very penetrating question and I hope to give a cogent answer. The Jewish music identified as such really did not come into its own as an art form until very late. And part of this had to do with the suppression of Jewish life of the ghetto ization THE GENERAL Oh oppression of one sort or another so that the the jews never had the opportunity to get a musical education they didn't enter the mainstream of musical activity except as secular musicians they were singers they were players and many of them by the way because of the pressures of society converted. Many of the composers that we know from France and Germany including people like Mendelssohn were already in convert families

around the turn of the century in Russia in St. Petersburg. That was a group of musicians who some for some reason decided that Jewish music should have an identity of its own and should rise to the level of Western music. And they began with the encouragement of some wonderful mentors like Rimsky-Korsakov was as you remember the teacher of Igor Stravinsky and many other musicians. They began to ally the s some of the some of the melodic and rhythmic figures of Jewish folk music alive that with the sophisticated western technical devices. Harmonic and rhythmic and so on. And the source of the music was manifold. Part of it was the cancellations of the Bible which had of an ancient tradition or many ancient traditions. Actually some of it was the music of the CD. The sect

of Jews who believed that wordless song and dancing was as legitimate a example of worship of the Lord of spiritual values as any of the written recited prayers or even the opposite of observing and observing of all the customs keeping kosher and so on. And some of the also other traditions were the traditions of the great Can tors who sang in synagogue but also adopted many of the Italian it operatic manners of singing and so the sources of Jewish music from these folk song like things of the CDM the Russian the polish the Romanian Jewish populations which had produced simple folk songs now became the subject for transformation transformation. No I didn't you notice I said transformation and not made superior or elevation

into a more sophisticated style because sophisticated doesn't mean more valuable we know. I mean that's a good snobbish argument to say you know you get smart you get educated and you're a better person. Nonsense. So that that was the beginning of the art the movement of Jewish art music and song was also an instrumental music. I want to play one of your father's pieces so we can now that you describe it so beautifully. We can hear a little bit on the other side I want to talk about your father and how he came to write this music so this is called Quiet candles and it's a quiet prayer barely audible uttered by a woman bent before a candle and she's telling God she will raise her children in God's image so here it is quiet. Candles. Yes.

Close to. Us a little. Less. So tell us about this piece specifically and then if you would tell us about your dad. And how you came to write this as our winner. Well we we faded out just a moment after an answer to a question you had earlier. You said it's Passover and of course this music is secular. Maybe there's no connection. And I observed that yes my father was essentially a secular Jew but his concerns were with the same values the same ethics and the same traditions that

feed religion and weep. We faded out the song at a moment when the singer says God. Will you bless this union with a young man whom I am betrothed to. Will he bear beautiful children for us. And what will the children do. They will sit learning Torah the Bible studies so she starts out with making a blessing over the candles which is traditional and then goes into this reverie about her forthcoming marriage. And it's a perfect metaphor for where he lived in a world where he lived in the here and now in the world that we inhabit but very much of his thought was with the essential Central Asian ship of man and God between normal behavior and ethical comportment.

So who was your dad was our wiener. Was he at sea tempted on this to do this great work. Well there's a story of a moment of epiphany and transformation in his life he was born in Czech Gosse should come see which is as close to the Kieve and as a little boy. He evidently exhibited some musical talent. His father was a bootmaker. He made boots for I understood for Russian officers and you know this was a peculiar relationship because he was a Jewish shoemaker making boots for Russian Russian officers and that could not have been a very easy relationship because the Russians and especially in Ukraine were not hospitable to the Jews at all. My grandfather wanted my father to become a cue maker also as one would expect. And there was a grandmother my father's grandmother his mother's mother said No Shmuel you will not make

clothes are a shoemaker. He is musical. And so my father was singing he of course was studying in theater studying in the in the study should study how was all the scriptures in the wrist and a man came from the great choir school in Kieve Brodsky's synagogue many of skee. And he heard my father's voice and he said to my father's parents I want to take this boy to KY if I want him to be part of the key of the chorus. And that was a beginning of liberation from this very narrow shtetl sort of ghettoized town to the largest city. And my father's beautiful voice evidently attracted the attention of the people in key of opera. And he became a member boy soprano first the chorus and then a soloist with a key of opera and he sang performances there even with the great Russian bass shop in legendary. His

voice changed. His colleagues his cronies in the orchestra used to laugh when his voice would croak and that precipitated him into studies at the Key of conservatory into western music where he became a very good pianist and learned quite a lot about theory. In 1914 at the last moment before the world first world war the family completely all of them left Russia and emigrated to the United States. They left on the last boat from I think it was from Bremen. Before the war arrived in New York and my father lived there for the rest of his life from 1014 on he was at that point seventeen years old. Wow. And so he was basically a secular musician he came to the states he earned money for the family by playing the movies the silent films and taking any job he possibly could. Conducting playing all sorts of journeymen things and in the course of that he met a.

There was one member of one of the orchestras that he conducted an amateur musician named Minkoff who was also a poet. And that man somehow had a great influence on my father and he advised him to look into or he drew him into his circle of poets. And this was significant for my father because he was not part of a cultural elite whatsoever. It's a very it was a very ordinary family. When he was about nine hundred twenty or so my father was already writing music and was writing very beautiful songs and he wrote to a significant musician in I think in Berlin or in Vienna. A man named Joel Engle who had been part of that St. Petersburg circle that I mentioned to you before. And he sent him some songs and he asked him for some advice and angle wrote back. You were obviously a very gifted musician and the songs were very beautiful but why is it that you do not utilize the material from your Jewish background. And this was a

reveller Torii to my father and it shook him. And it was a major turning point in his life. And so he began to really look into the sources of Jewish music and also the sources and the and the practice of very high cultural values in Jewish life. His language itself changed he went from a colloquial Yiddish which would be you know the way people let's say along every day long. Well not just that Eliot but also that say the way longshoreman might speak in Brooklyn to a form of the King's English. What it was called a literary Yiddish little Hypatia Yiddish where what is written is what is pronounced. And they're really distinct dialects and of course some of this is involved with a certain amount of elitism and snobbery. You can be sure what we're going to get to about how he took all of that in this transformational moment and turned it in these very beautiful songs that are now being more appreciated

today. We're talking about the Yiddish art song with a focus on the works of the Tsar Wiener over his lifetime he composed over 200 of these works his son the composer and pianist Woody minor is here with us to talk through the musicality and meaning behind these songs. You're listening to a 9.7 WGBH Boston Public Radio. Take a break. I don't need no beauty you need tell you he'd marry me. We love our contributors. That means you. And New England Conservatory presenting the Boston premiere of Britain's opera Paul Bunyan April 14th through 17th at the Paramount Theatre. It's a tall tale of the giant lumberjack who

helps build America. Annie see music dot edu. And orchard cove where their updates are now complete. You can see how the new face of this independent senior community in Canton is transforming residents lives. You can schedule a tour online at Orchard Cove live dot org. And from members of the Ralph Lowell society. These most generous annual contributors lead the way in sustaining WGBH as a public media resource available and free to all. WGBH dot org slash Ralph Lowell. Next time on the world. We climbed down into a French cellar. The bottles along the wall don't contain wine but water samples of seawater from all over the globe. We have vintage from the advantage from the bison feed from the Indian Ocean and you can date from everywhere in the world analyzing the world's oceans one drop at a time. Our story next time on the world coming up at 3:00 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH.

Join Brian O'Donovan and singer songwriter Robbie O'Connell for an exciting John through Ireland southern counties natural beauty and rich history of traditional Irish music sessions by night. It's an Irish. September for some of the most historic and scenic places in the Emerald Isle to register his learning to. Local issues. Today Massachusetts remains one of two states that granted its access to DNA evidence after they have been convicted. Boston Public Radio. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just joining us my guest is you honey Weiner a Pulitzer Prize winning composer pianist and conductor. We're talking about his

father or minor. Over the course of his lifetime he wrote over 200 Jaenisch art songs songs that were recently highlighted at the Boston Jewish music festival in the background were playing one of the loves are whiners compositions. If my father were rich. So you wonder we talked about the transformational moment for your father coming together realizing he needed to use all of his musical talents in a holistic way to really support and highlight his Jewish culture. Is that why you decided to write the compositions in Yiddish. Yes he was devoted to Yiddish culture. He was not he braced although he read and of course was his background in the study hall was Hebrew. But his the surround of that culture. Was he a dish. I mean we have no idea now following the Holocaust and the disappearance of what is it six possibly six million Jews most of

those the largest majority of those were Yiddish speaking and very large component of that population a very large portion. Part of it went emigrated to the United States and Canada and many settled and settled in New York so that there was a vibrant Yiddish speaking reading theatre going musical enjoying culture in New York for many decades I mean someone like Isaac Bashevis Singer who is known to the white world was from that culture. And many of the. Many of the figures whom we know through Broadway musicals whether it was the Irving Berlin's or the Gershwins or the many many many others of writers of musical also came out of a Yiddish speaking culture not Hebrew culture but a Yiddish speaking culture. My father then having had this epiphany turn to Yiddish sources partly things that he remembered

partly things that he researched and he had a very strong musical background and equipment he became one of one of the finest coaches for for singers in New York but not in the Yiddish language. The coaching was the regular leader. That is song art song literature and he was in the studio of an eminent teacher at Carnegie Hall for many years. In the meantime he also became the director of several choruses. First of all things the communist chorus they fry it's good song that was in the early 20s and he being a charismatic leader was not interested in the politics although he was very much less labor oriented very leftist socialist. But you know in those days the picture of what the Bolsheviks were and what they were going to do was not clear. There were many people in our culture who were sympathetic to the idea of labor and

leftist politics. So he was conductor of that for some years and earned from them a sufficient respect so that he could take a sabbatical and they gave him a visa to go to Russia. Nineteen twenty seven he and my mother left. They came they they had it an experience many experiences in that in the short time they were in Russia where he came back a fanatical anti communist. He saw what was going on. He saw the distrust he saw the the enmity he saw the oppression. He understood and he turned his back on that. And I have to say that people from the Communist Party never forgave him. Wow. This was nine hundred twenty seven. He died in 1900 too. Think of how many years that is. It's almost 50 years. So whatever my math is not there so here's a point I wanted to talk to you about. You mentioned that he and I wondered if it's because if he had

the varied background of being sort of in the community doing regular stuff and then he elevated his music to as you say a high art.. That some of the music has a kind of a pop style and I wanted to play one of the pieces it's called a melody in English and this shows the pop style in the chorus the popper in the song the popper and the song repeats the phrase to share a bit. Bam Bam a cheery beam bum bum bam bam all right and yeah it's like a rap. It's like a rap refrain. OK. And it's that is the descendant of the city practice the practice of worthless syllables being a perfect conduit to the Holy Spirit. All right well here we are this is a melody and this is by our wiener. And here's a composition in the pop style. Baby.

Fighting goes north and then hope is. Fading. So there you have it that's a pop style. It's very catchy I have to say. Well it was his it was his. He laughed but years later because he said he sold the copyright for $5. Oh you're kidding. Yeah yeah but I mean this he was this he was really immersed in the populist style which he he said if he wanted to write a folk if he wanted a

folk song he would write it himself. But he was an all encompassing musician This was just one side of what he was able to do just like Mozart wrote so many German dances Schubert wrote so many things which almost popular songs Beethoven set Scottish songs for example it's not uncommon. And how many things did Verdi write which the whole audience would would leave the theater screaming and yelling and singing the song. So now he appeared just from my reading of him. And you are the the expert on the subject. Driven to make this music and get it out there. However for my stylistically it took That's just the sense I got about him and I couldn't tell if that was because he felt that he was on a mission to preserve this culture of the Jewish culture or it was just one of those artist driven things you know. I am not an artist but I know that artists feel like I have to write the music I have to write the book. They're just they have something pushing them all the time because

they have to get it out. What would you say. Well pushing is certainly the case. I think he was less driven than dedicated rather. Slightly different because you think driven is a kind of neurotic dynamic that one has to obey. I think he felt that this was indeed a culture that needed that for one thing that needed that component that practice which brought it up to a level of Western art music. That was it wasn't competitive thing but he just felt that you know you dish in the early days was regarded contemptuously as jargon wasn't even regarded as a language or a dialect. It was gone. Most insulting. And this to elevate that into a a level of the good accomplishments of Western music was very much in his mind. Now also he wanted to transform the perception of Jewish music as simply being little songs from the ghetto. I don't think he taught during his

life in terms of mission. It wasn't that kind of mentality but he did feel that Yiddish poetry was what he loved. And Yiddish poetry was something that was not being cultivated not being appreciated and not having. A dignified setting in music and still people take some of the beautiful philosophical tracts and set them to a kind of pop's a kind of campfire songs kind of little Western Diddy's not suitable not right. Can you imagine you know some of the biblical songs being just you know not appropriate. So he was after that and he did it. He picked the best poetry. He respected the poetry to the absolutely to the period in the comma. They formed the forms of his pieces his melodic lines always had a very powerful connection with Jewish culture with Jewish traditional melodies of one kind or another they whether they were

cancelations synagogue tunes acidic tunes and often these sophisticated accompany myths also integrated some of those melodic turns so that the whole thing was highly synthesized and highly integrated. And I don't know did you see that picture of him in the summer time if sitting in a chicken coop with a piano that's where we went everybody else went to the Concord Hotel and the other places where they would have Second Avenue kind of theatrical pre-press intentions and vaudevilles and and many great comedians but that was not to my father's taste. He wanted to work on these on his compositions. You're listening to eighty nine point seven WGBH an on line at WGBH dot org. My guest is you who do you Weiner a Pulitzer Prize winning composer pianist and conductor. We're talking about his father Lazaro Wiener the master of the Yiddish art song. So now let's talk about relationship to father and son I mean sometimes you see artists beginning another artist so here you have your father who is a musician different from you but you

become a musician having grown up with him and now you're the keeper of his of his legacy in this way and have been successful in getting it out there certainly but this the Boston Jewish music festival. And I wanted to play before I get you to you know speak about that a little bit. Your performing one of his works with your wife. This is called evening song. I just love this I think it's so pretty. And this is you who does wife Susan divin a whiner. Sings this with UTI as he is and as he accompanies her and. Oh and you've you've given many performances so you want to add so I just want to add the fact that Susan just my wife Susan who was a notable soprano in the 70s and early 80s at the Metropolitan Opera and City Opera New York was saying to me how deeply touched she was that this song was dedicated to her. Oh yes because she learned it ish. Susan is not Jewish

but she learned these texts from my father and he coached her and this is a perfect example of a beautiful song which Richard Dyer years ago wrote about. And he said this song somehow ranks with Shubert's nocked and throwing a beautiful significant song. All right well this is called evening song in English. Uh. Huh. Uh. So tell me about playing that and what it's what it's like to play

your father's music and hear your wife sing it so beautifully. Well there's nothing I can do to stop the tears. I love a lot of this music and it touches me you know in a way that not much music does. I don't think it's simply because it's by my father. I think it's because he embodied his work embodied not just an egotistical creative urge but in an embrace of a whole culture. And that's big time. We have artists in various fields writers who somehow do more than just their own work but reflect a culture or encompass a culture or elevate a culture or understand things that we don't normally. The song is so beautiful because it makes the metaphor of these. These flags which are flying in the evening and they bring consolation and rest. It's a kind of consultative consolation all lit up

by and it's a wonderful song I think. I wonder what you learned about your father's music and your father by playing his music more than I did from him in mostly living with him. My father was that kind of European patriarch who stayed away from bringing up the children. KELLY It might strike you as bizarre that I almost never had a conversation with my father. We did as a family have a dinner together. My mother my and much younger brother and myself and my father. But in that time we listen to the news on the radio. There was no discussion. There was no talk. Essentially it was my mother who guided the bringing up of the children and my father was a rather distant person rather taciturn around the house. I got a picture of him however when I saw him in public with his choruses or with orchestras. I

remember his conducting the part of the NBC Orchestra at the second at the third Ritz Roosevelt inauguration broadcast and NBC at the World's Fair around that time and he conducted the international lady Garment Workers Union chorus and other organizational chorus that he led. There I saw a charismatic leader of incredible energy and a combination of authoritative authoritative power and humor. He would have the chorus in stitches saying something and suddenly clap his hands and they would have to snap to attention it was an incredible experience. And there I saw a different person. And I thought that was really wonderful. It set a kind of this early model because I I didn't ever think that I would have such a role that I would enter it. I didn't even know whether I would enter the profession at that time. I wasn't a factor. But if the I'd think I would think that yes I think asking whether it was through the

music that I learned some things or developed a relationship. The answer is very much so. The affection and the respect and the tenderness that's involved in the understanding in those songs is simply indescribable. Let me tell you one you know the relation of fathers and sons in general is something that is often spoken about and often it's spoken about in terms of contention and rivalry and competition. I never felt competition with my father. Never. What I was doing was so different in many ways in the musical field and he was very appreciative. He was he felt that I was getting the musical education and background that he didn't have and he felt very often that he was in many ways inferior in his training to what I was getting. What that means I don't know. Inferior superior That's such garbage. In any case he would give me his pieces to look at as he

wrote them. After I'd gotten a good musical education and he would say to me look them over see what you think I was OK. He said only if you make some corrections don't make it too complicated. And I said Papa I've always simplified things never complicated. Yeah you're right. So I give him back some things where I was interested in the song I would make some suggestions. He would take them back and found that he was able to revise the slightest thing. At the same time he allowed me if I wanted to to make small changes and I did and he would approve that and that's the way they were published the changes were never in the essence of the song never in the form of the song they're just details here and there. Now we went through a whole life like this and I felt you know this is a peculiar relationship that I understand his music he appreciates mine. But there's no talk there's no. Late in life he was visiting us at Tanglewood and

somehow I had the guts to say to him Papa you know in all the years we've been together and we've made music together you've never once complimented me. And he looked at me shocked and he said I compliment you. You are so high above me. Cali I think of that. And I just cannot. I cannot stop the tears and the reason is I realized all my life time had passed in a big misunderstanding. But now you celebrate his music and the riches of his music and the richness of this culture and I thank you for it. Thank you so much for this time. Say thank you. I'm Kelly Crossley and I've been speaking with you who did Weiner a Pulitzer Prize winning composer pianist and conductor. We've been talking about his father a lasar Wiener the master of the Yiddish art song. Up next our Wine Guy Johnson also joins us to talk through some wines to serve for Passover

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Context beyond the headline issues you want to know more about. Stories you'll want to share. News and depth online. At WGBH news dot org. I'm Cally Crossley. Joining me in the studio is Jonathan also founder of the Boston winds go. He's here to give us guidance on what wines to serve for a Passover seder at Easter dinner. Jonathan welcome back. Thank you Kelly great to be here. Well you know this is really an interesting discussion because we got to talking about kosher wine and everybody only thinks Mogen David. That's I mean and I know that's a stereotype and it's you know that why is does they still make it I don't know how to make a kosher wine has such a long strange history in the U.S. you think of you think a Mogen David you think of Manischewitz. Yeah. Are there others. There must be others.

When you think about kosher wine you think about freakishly sweet right. Kind of bizarre red. Red wine in reality I mean kosher wine around the world has much more in common with organic wine biodynamic wine which is all very natural wine you want to if you want to think about what kosher You know what makes kosher wine what it is and what what does it have in common with other products or other kinds of wines it's more like in the organic biodynamic world. You know there's some control on the ingredients. There's you know these biodynamic people that is practically a religion. Yeah. You know as it is so there's this sort of you know religious overtone to it. So that's what I mean that's really if you think about it like that it makes it makes a lot more. It makes a lot more sense.

But it's all changed and because of the biodynamic organic. Big interest in wines and it's huge now. And as you say knows your wines can certainly fall in that category except you know with the rabbi now making that extra extra. OK there are some actually fabulous wines and fantastic kosher wines I brought I brought two for you to taste. OK. One at two different price points the first is a mile back from Argentina. I know you do. This is called Wine recalled Guillermo de Mendoza. William of Mendoza is a classic sort of Arjen Argentinian Malbec maybe a little ripe or maybe a little fruity or you know than them. Alicia great. Good good I'm glad you're enjoying it. About 10. That's about ten ninety nine. And we always you know need to point out that mail back for its really great for people who say they hate red wine. The white wine drinkers say hey red wine you know usually if they have a mile back they go right for a Malbec has been a

great transitional grape for people who are just starting to get into get into red wine and $10 a sound and well and and you know the irony of you know again we're talking about you know organic biodynamic kosher whatever. The irony is you shouldn't taste any difference. It should just taste like a great wine that you know you shouldn't really notice anything. About it it should just be an expression just like any other kind of winery expresses its vision of what wine ought to be. OK now a second read that I brought you in I noticed today I don't know and you know I didn't do this on purpose but for some reason I brought all brought all red wines. The second well we actually should talk about that because most people only can think about a kosher wine anyway as read. Yes. So yes there are others but I actually have never seen a kosher one that wasn't written.

I know there's a ton especially if you especially if you're looking at a wines from Israel. There's a winery an Israeli winery called to be. They make some great white Make some great white wine but like I said I don't know why. Today I just have to bring all red wines. There was something about the OK so this is this is a winery an Israeli winery in the Galilee in Israel the Galilee is if you think about what Israel looks like if you can imagine that it's in the upper right hand corner so north east farthest north highest elevation part. Of Israel and this is a winery that's called Dalton of course. And it looks just like that DA El Tio and of course in in Israeli It's pretty Ruth pronounced doll tone is the name of lying to us it looks like Dalton. OK and this is the Dalton Galilee red Zinfandel. It's good. One of the few places in the world where Zinfandel is grown. You know the European parent of Zinfandel is grown in

the heel of Italy Zinfandel is grown in California a lot of zinfandel a lot of what is it like California hardly any Zinfandel anyplace else in the world. A little bit in South Africa and a tiny bit here. Give me just you know like two sentences on the rise of importance in Israeli made wines. I mean is that wine market getting bigger are such that now we have more variety and. Well from that area. Yeah I mean that's that's a really good question. This whole part of the world is real. Cyprus Lebanon Turkey. You know these are all parts of the world that have been in you know it's an understatement to say they've been in some turmoil is an understatement. But these are parts of the world that have been making wine for six seven eight thousand years. These people know how to grow grapes and they know how to make wine and they make and wine great wine for millennia

and it's political issues and war and trade and world conditions that have kept these wines out of the larger world market. So not only Israel but also Also as I said Cyprus Lebanon and Turkey as well. How much is Delta going back to Delta the Dalton is about 30. OK so it jumped up and press jumped up in price on this one so now how are you liking that dial and Downton but I have to say you know I might like the $2 Yeah more. You might think you might like three bottles you like three bottles of beer most. Yeah yeah yeah you know that can happen and. Often what happens is that Passover Seder happens close to sometimes Easter. Yes it's a little bit closer now you know and you know it's you know in the same vicinity and you know we can talk about what kind of wines people could use some of these were Easter next year well sure. OK. Kelly you know people people have heard of the Last Supper but

I bet there are a lot of people out there who do not know that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder meal. I mean that's what Jesus was doing in Jerusalem. He came back to Jerusalem specifically for Passover. So when you ask the question you know this is this time of year according to our calendar coincidentally you know Passover and Easter are like right on top of each other. Friday's first night of Passover. Sunday is Easter Sunday. But they're linked much more closely than that in the stories of. The of the crucifixion story very closely linked so when we asked the question well what's a good wine for Passover. What's a good wine for Easter. We're actually asking them to the same question and consequently the answer is the same in these winds would be great with the traditional Easter lamb. I'm especially thinking that this dulled Oh yes with an Easter lamb would be would be fantastic and you know to a

certain degree kind of kind of historically you know kind of historically accurate. Thank you Reverend Randy. So now I have left my religion I'm still not one of the other two you go so I brought to you otherwise I brought one that is one that is ridiculous and one that is sublime. OK the first actually has actually two pictures of Jesus on it. This is the grapes of Galilee. Marlo can't get any clearer than this is a this is a non kosher Israeli wine OK. And I just I I I I bought I bought it because I don't know if I like that label. Well I don't know if you can see but no they are both great no matter what no matter where you move Jesus's eyes follow you from the wind it's a great market where you are you have to say really why makers are on that. The other well the other one we ask you know the other one is. How much is that by the way.

0 4 9 you know what I mean OK so you know OK this is the ridiculous one the next two weeks of life. OK so the next wine. This is a red wine from from Italy. The winery is called feed Ellis like Fidelity and it's from come Panya south of Rome on the slopes of the soup. So if in some weird like alternate universe of speculative fiction Jesus had been invited to dinner at Pontus pilot's house. This is this is a great he might have had because this this is a grape and a wine that was being made during the Roman era that almost certainly they exported around the world the grape is called Nikko and and that means the Greek the Greek from it this is my first day on it. That's the end it's been made in Italy for thousands and thousands of years.

Now let's talk about availability because as you've said there but the turmoil in that part of the world. Yeah. Is it easier now to get Israeli mail much easier much much easier. And one thing that's happening in the world of Israeli wines is we're breaking down this idea of you know putting them in a kosher section like to have the big sign hanging over a bunch of wine with the word kosher is kind of the kiss of death and so forth. Yeah the marketing from a marketing perspective. So they're starting to market these just like you know the idea is just like every other. It's just like every other wine there are a lot of wines for instance from southern France that are organic not because the wine makers said hey let's be organic. But because that's the way they've done it for hundreds of years the wine makers perspective is you know these aren't kosher is a marketing concept these aren't kosher because we're into a kosher wine fad. This is how we make wine. And it just happens to be kosher. And so that's sort of where they're

trying to really trying to approach it from now for the people who are having ham on. Yes you would suggest. Yes well you know a classic match with ham with your traditional Easter ham is Riesling a nice German Riesling that that is a classic classic back if you have been wanting to try the unpronounceable diverts Tremaine or yeah love right you know if you've been waiting for a chance to walk into a store and say to me up with some converts to meaner now's the time to do that. Giver it's true miners another white grape it's very much like Riesling very spicy. You just have to say the word giver so that just makes it easy. Well these are all great suggestions and very tasty ones and it's a whole new day for kosher wines Thank you Jonathan also. Thank you who we've been talking about wine for the sacred holidays with Jonathan also the founder of the Boston Wine School. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show by following us on Twitter. Become a fan of the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook today show was engineered by Antonio Yorke produced by Chelsea Myers will

Rose left an abbey Ruzicka the Calla Crossley Show is a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.