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I'm callin Crossley This is the Cali Crossley Show. Today we're looking at seatbelt regulations though Massachusetts is known as a nanny state when it comes to buckling up. This is one area where the state is slack. Massachusetts is at the bottom of seat belt use ranking 48 out of the 50 states. Now the legislature is aiming to tighten this up with a new seatbelt bill. The current law classifies not wearing a seat belt as a secondary offense. The new bill would make this an offense that could want stopped by an officer. Proponents say this legislation is a one click solution that could save lives and the state millions in medical costs up on and say this could lead to more racial profiling. From there we revisit the hub way the bike sharing program could be safer thanks to some MIT students and their bike helmet vending machine. Up next rules of the road. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh. Global patients with the

Syrian government appears to be wearing thin as President Bashar Assad's promised to end a bloody crackdown is contradicted by more reports today of violence in the city of Holmes. Syrian activists are accusing troops of randomly striking civilian areas killing unarmed families and causing dozens more casualties. The BBC's Paul Wood reports from the outskirts of homes that it's still difficult to verify the claims. Having spent three or four days with people under shell fire sometimes people just get hysterical and start running around saying things because of the pressure they're under. There is no car there. It is the heaviest yet for several days. The BBC's Paul Wood reporting from the outskirts of Holmes Syria. Police in the Somali capital are bracing for more deaths from an apparent suicide car bombing today that has already killed at least nine people in Mogadishu. At least 20 other people have been wounded. The explosion went off near a hotel frequented by Somali lawmakers. The Islamist

militant group Al-Shabaab is suspected in the latest bombing in the U.S. efforts to give President Obama a line item veto power moving ahead in Congress. NPR's David Mattingly reports House passage of a bill to do just that is expected this afternoon. Previous presidents have asked for a line item veto power without success. In 1998 the U.S. Supreme Court said no when Congress tried to give it to President Clinton. But this time backers say they believe the bill meets constitutional standards. It allows the president to identify spending cuts but Congress must still approve them. That's in line with Congress controlling the purse strings. The president then signs what is essentially a new spending package. The savings must be used for deficit reduction. It's popular in the Republican controlled House. Less so when the Democratic run Senate. Dave Mattingly NPR News Washington. Republicans are threatening to overturn a new administration policy that requires religious affiliated groups to provide birth control coverage to

their employees. House Speaker John Boehner this afternoon said if President Obama does not reverse the policy Congress will many Roman Catholic and other critics call the policy an attack on religious freedom. However proponents say religious organizations employ people of all faiths in all backgrounds and that failure to give them the option of birth control coverage amounts to discrimination. Today investors still concerned about bailout plans for Greece developments under way negotiations underway with European leaders and world stocks are reacting a last check on Wall Street. Dow was down 16 points to twelve thousand eight hundred sixty two Nasdaq up slightly. The two thousand nine hundred six. You're listening to NPR News. And from the WGBH radio news room in Boston I'm Christina Quinn with the local stories we're following. David at Windsor the former Newton elementary school teacher who was arrested last month on child pornography charges now faces new counts of sexually assaulting an underage

girl whose parents hired him to babysit her. The Boston Herald reports the 34 year old Brighton man has been indicted on multiple charges including five counts of aggravated indecent assault and battery on a child under the age of 14. Earlier this month earlier this month Ledger resigned from his position as a second grade teacher at Underwood Elementary School where he taught for 11 years before his January arrest. Springfield officials say they are going ahead with plans to make all bars and nightclubs close at 1am unless they have special permission to stay open an hour later. The move made Tuesday is an effort to cut down early morning violence. Police say most of the city's crime occurs in the entertainment district between 10:00 p.m. and 4:00 a.m.. In Rhode Island crimes provoked by the victim's gender identity would be considered hate crimes under legislation scheduled for a vote today in the state's general assembly. Current state law defines hate crimes as any crime motivated by prejudice involving race religion ethnicity sexual orientation homelessness or disability. The bill would add gender identity and gender expression to the list. It

also would require the state police to compile statistics on crimes motivated by gender identity prejudice. In New Hampshire a legislative committee has overwhelmingly rejected a bill requiring that police check the immigration status of all arrested persons. The vote was 14 to 1 to recommend killing the measure. Republican Representative Phil greats cast the only dissenting vote. He says he didn't believe the checks would be a burden. The weather forecast for this afternoon mostly sunny with highs in the upper 30s tonight cloudy with a near steady temperature in the lower 30s. Right now it's 34 degrees in Boston. Support for NPR comes from the pajama Graham company offering leopard hoodie footies in women's pajamas delivered overnight and on Valentine's Day pajama gram dot com. Good afternoon I'm Cally Crossley. The state legislature is aiming to elevate its current seat belt law which would make failing to buckle a primary offense an offense that would warrant being stopped by an officer. Proponents say this legislation is a

one click solution that could save opponents say this could lead to more racial profiling. Joining me to discuss the implications of this bill if it gets passed are Stephanie Soriano mills and Dr. Greg Parkinson Stephanie Soriano Mills is an attorney and the chair of legal redress for the New England area conference of the interval ACP. Dr. Greg Parkinson is a pediatric physician and the cochairman of the belts insure a safer tomorrow. Coalition. Thank you both for joining us. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having us. So I want to start with you Greg Parkinson and ask about the current law that we have which is what's known as a secondary law with regard to seatbelts. What do we have now and what would be changed by having a primary seat belt law. Sure. So as simply as I can put it right now if you are being ticketed for a seatbelt violation you have to have first been pulled over for another violation. The change to primary enforcement

would make it similar to other traffic violations where you could be pulled over for that violation in and of itself. It seems like a minor point in some ways the reason that we focus around it is that seatbelt use in Massachusetts is 73 percent. One of the lowest if not the lowest depending on the new numbers coming out in the country. And we know that the figure I've always carried in my head is that for every one percent seatbelt use you can gain you'll save two lives a year in Massachusetts. And so what we have is a situation from a public health perspective. Where the most important traffic safety measure that we have is really being underutilized and that's what we're trying to gain from this is higher seat belt use. Therefore saving lives and saving money. So let me just go back so I'm you know tooling around with my lights out the back of my

car and they pull me over and they notice I don't have a seat belt on and they can ticket me for that in addition to it currently. But if I'm tooling around my lights are on in my car everything else is fine and they notice I don't have my seatbelt on. If this other new legislation will be passed they could pull me over and ticket me for that. That's critical for Claire for clarity's sake. So what has been the effectiveness of the secondary as it is now. You've said what would happen you think if this if the first the primary loss put in saving two lives a year what now do we have Sure. So right now. With the law that we have you know the seatbelt use has has trickled up gradually over decades. We know that Massachusetts badly lags behind states that have primary enforcement the expected increase in seatbelt use in Massachusetts from primary enforcement is is about 11 percentage points. And we have this based on the information

from the 31 other states that have have done this. And that translates to 18 lives a year that would be estimated to be saved Massachusetts as well as for six hundred fifty serious injuries and also in the neighborhood of one hundred seventy million dollars in total costs of which 70 million dollars would be health care cost savings. OK. Now over to you Stephanie Soriano males. Because your organization is saying a primary law is the way it's construed allowing officers to pull people over just for lack of seatbelt usage really also allows for more room for racial profiling I think a lot of people have trouble getting their heads around it. So you probably need to give us a little bit of what the racial profiling what kind of racial profiling usually happens now with people in cars so that we can have a sense of how this would fit in with your concern. Yes thank you. I think in order to understand the seatbelt legislation as it appears now we

must also understand the history behind the legislation back in 1999 going into 2000. This seatbelt bill was it was introduced to this to the Senate in the state house to be passed at the same time that the seatbelt legislation was being introduced a racial and gender profiling bill was being introduced and essentially senators made some clear and convincing arguments that stated before we institute yet another reason for police officers to stop people we must examine racial profiling in Massachusetts. Well as a book based on this M&A occurred and that mandate. Contract with Northeastern University to come in and try to come up with some studies surrounding this. What these 10 examined over 1.6 million stops and found that out of that three fourths of the cities and towns in Massachusetts were engaged in racial profiling. They took away every other reason or basis that could possibly be there and determined that three fourths of the police municipalities across Massachusetts

were committed some form of racial profiling as a basis of this. There was supposed to be some solutions some progress that was made. Nothing was ever done. Here we find ourselves a decade later with the same legislation being introduced while never figuring out a solution to deal with the racial profiling that we know now exists in Massachusetts based on this lengthy investigation by Northeastern. So if the if the primary seatbelt law were in place your fear is that there will be. That's just another tool that officers can use. Absolutely we find now that there are over 600 laws on the books that allow police officers to stop cars. We also know that a lot of these stops then result in sometimes agree just so unnecessary or unlawful searches of the person in the vehicle. Sometimes there's absolutely nothing found. But we don't know about these people that were stopped unnecessarily based on perhaps race or ethnicity but we what we do know is that it's happening. We and we do know that if we now institute another law to do it it will be used. To disparately impact

people of color. And you know as it stands now it is a secondary law enforcement as you mentioned so they cannot be stopped with a seatbelt. They can be stopped for something else and if they see the seatbelt and that can also be a civil infraction that comes along in the form of a ticket not an arrest. So Stephanie Soriano males who you are an attorney in that share of legal redress for the New England area conference of the CPC. I'm wondering what happens in other states that have primary seatbelt laws. How have they dealt with racial profiling. Well you know I think first and foremost when we look at Massachusetts we have to understand its landscape. We don't have we're not rural in the sense that we have long roads that people travel particularly in this in Suffolk County a lot of people are on public transportation. The issues that confront other other parts of the nation in terms of the type of roads and the lengthy traveling in between work or school or the like affect what happens in those states and we have to look at our state independently in terms of racial profiling I think we also have to look at the makeup of the state. I do know that the racial

and gender profiling bill that was put into place in 2000 is unique. I do know that I don't know whether or not other states have followed suit in trying to find out this information. But I also know that Massachusetts didn't do anything to try to resolve the problems that we found. So we must do that before we enact another law on the books to stop people. So Greg you've heard Stephanie's. Make the case how this could be used as a tool for racial profiling. How do you respond to that. Sure. The first point I want to clearly make is the coalition strongly opposes the practice of racial profiling and and really it's so sad that in the year 2000 and 12 we need to even be discussing this but the reality is that we do and it and it's a practice that needs to stop. The there are a couple of points that are important to make though. Although Massachusetts is certainly a unique culture

we have the experience of many other states that have converted to primary enforcement. And every one of these with a sizable minority population has had this issue raised as a possible concern. There's a study that came out just in September where now 13 states have had detailed reviews of ticketing rates before and after changes to primary enforcement and including States with with large minority populations Louisiana Georgia Oklahoma Kentucky Mississippi etc. and every state that has been studied has not shown a difference in the racial based ticketing before and after. The primary for so no change so there's been no change in the ticketing rate and it's been it's been well intentioned concern and but when it's gotten to enforcement or in implementation it hasn't it hasn't

panned out and and that's very reassuring and it's it's even more important when you look at it from the perspective of what what does the minority community have to gain from primary use. I mentioned a 73 percent use rate overall in the state of Massachusetts which is which is low enough as it is. But you straight in the Hispanics in Massachusetts is 54 percent in blacks in Massachusetts 65 percent and so it in itself is a source of racial disparity. So I look at the two problems as a parallel. Racial disparities. They both need to be fixed. The complicated task of fixing the racial profiling problem is is. Ultimately going to have to be addressed separately than the relatively simple task of changing from secondary to

primary enforcement. And the reason that as a pediatrician as a health care worker that and so many others of my colleagues are involved in this is that I know that the governor with one stroke of a pen can save more lives than I capable of saving and in a life time. Through this legislation and so there is so much to gain for everyone but I think it's really important to say particularly in the minority population. Stephanie do you respond to that. You know what I would say is we have and we're not here to argue the merit of seatbelt usage. I'm a mother of four. Of course of course children and people I wear my sub seat belt I believe everybody should wear their seatbelts. What I'm saying is there's other ways to go about it than than institue and yet another law to require it. I believe that Massachusetts residents are capable of being educated on the value of seatbelts. I think that there needs to be more of a of a push for campaigns for the for the usage of seatbelts. I know that the majority of I believe that the majority of Massachusetts residents at this point believe

that seatbelt use is already a primary enforcement. And I know there was a there was a campaign a few years ago in 93 so there was a huge billboard that said what the state should give us a Click It or Ticket. There was no information of what whether it was a primary or secondary. This Click It or Ticket campaign made people believe that they had to click to buckle up or get ticketed and that if we look listen into the statistics that the doctors referenced and didn't change people's usage. But what it will do is increase the level of stops for people of color so though I commend the doctor in being concerned about the lives in the minority community I can tell you that the concerns of the minority community are for racial profiling and you know whether whether they're being unjustly stopped and searched is way more of a concern than seat belt usage. So what I would say is that needs to be addressed and with one stroke of a pen possibly the governor could fix that as well. But that racial profile racial and gender profiling bill is still lingering with no results.

OK. We get much more to talk about and I'm going to let everybody talk about it as we continue but for the moment let's take a pause we'll be talking about what it would mean. We are talking about what it would mean if the Majesties Massachusetts legislature elevates its current seat belt law making it an offense that could warrant being stopped by a cop. Could this save lives could this exacerbate racial profiling. We're opening up the lines join the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 0 8 0 9 7 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 8 9 7 8 what would this law mean for you. 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 8 9 7 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. You can write to our Facebook page or send us a tweet. You're listening to the Calla Crossley Show on WGBH Boston Public Radio. For. WGBH programs exist because of you and the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum presenting the Ron savage Burton trio using classic jazz with modern and world music.

February 16th in Calderwood hall sponsored in part by Fidelity Investments Gardner Museum dot org slash music. And Nova follow the extraordinary human and medical drama of Trishna and Krishna born joined at the head as surgeons prepared to separate them watch separating twins. Wednesday night at 9:00 on WGBH to. Newt Gingrich's campaign was revitalized by the ten million dollars donated to his PAC by casino mogul Sheldon Adelson and his wife. Addison made much of his fortune from the casinos his company owns in Macau. On the next FRESH AIR journalist Lowell Bergman talks about his investigation into the Chinese mobs involvement in MC house casinos. Joining us. This afternoon to 9.7. You are cordially invited to attend an evening inspired by Downton Abbey a night of Edwardian fashion food and manners at the WGBH studios in Brighton on February 23rd at 6:30 p.m. sampled the food of the British aristocracy here timeless works by English

composers as performed by the doing the brass band and see authentic and modern interpretations of dress from the era portrayed in the. Wildly popular masterpiece series tickets are just $35 with a discount for members online at WGBH dot org slash box office morning essential. Help to get your brain to go. You're listening to MORNING EDITION from NPR News. Bobbsey and MORNING EDITION I hear on WGBH Boston Public Radio is good when you're on Jeopardy. GBH right here. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just tuning in we're talking about seat belt regulations in Massachusetts. The state legislature is working to pass a bill that would elevate not wearing a seat belt to a primary offense. This means that an officer could stop you if you are not wearing a seat belt. Proponents say this is a no brainer when it comes to saving lives. But all poets say they are concerned that this will exacerbate racial profiling. What's your take. You can join the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1

89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. And joining us to talk through this debate are Stephanie Soriano mills and Dr. Greg Parkinson Stephanie Soriano Mills is an attorney and the chair of legal redress for the New England area conference of the ACP. Dr. Greg Parkinson is a pediatric physician and the cochairman of the belts insure a safer tomorrow. Coalition. Joining us on the line is Springfield resident Beatrice went to the seat belt bill is named after her daughter Natalie who was killed in a car crash in 2006. Natalie was not wearing a seat belt. Beatrice Fuentes welcome. Oh thank you. Good afternoon. So tell us you have an obvious emotional reason to be in support of this bill. Why do you think it's very important and could you speak to the issue of racial profiling. Well the importance behind having a primary belt law is I think exactly what Dr. Parker is saying that it does.

They live and it's a form of prevention that will keep not only the death rate down but you know cost issues for the health cost issues and such for my feeling for the profiling is not one of dismissal because they are issues. But I believe there are two separate issues. Don't they be in racial profiling and they should be addressed accordingly but separately. As a Latino myself I I think about what would be the end result if you know this. This law comes in this path. That is you know if because we know that black Americans and Hispanics have the highest fatality rate so having a seatbelt law would would save a lot of those lives not only minorities because at the end of the day it's really about everyone

where we're all working together to do exactly that. Save lives and Prevention is the only cure. Beatrice in your own experience does pretty much everybody you know wear their seatbelts on. Yes a lot of people that I know personally do wear their seatbelt. But on an ordinary day when I'm driving in the city and I look to the left and I look to the right I see more people not wearing their Stapleton and their children bouncing around in the back seat and you know it's very heart wrenching to watch that and not be able to do anything I believe that if there were a seat belt laws in place that would really get drivers an occupant vehicles to really be responsible and buckle up. OK. That's my guest Beatrice Fuentes the seat belt laws named after her daughter Natalie who was killed when she was not wearing a seat belt. Let's take some calls are from Connecticut

go ahead please you're on the Kelly Crossley Show. Thanks for having me. I started where many people after I was picked did not wear it because they did change a law so they could kill you over and you just. So I think it helped me finally get to the point where now I'll always remember. So why did you do it before. I think. I just never felt like I grew up without a seatbelt and I really didn't even need it felt like it was a restraint which now it kind of feels the opposite if I don't have it I feel like I should be held in. So I think it was just a matter of that in my arms around having to do it. And then now that I've done it for so long I can't imagine driving without it. I think just listening to what you're saying earlier in terms of racial profiling if it's 75 percent of the of the council Judas are already profiling. How could it possibly increase it didn't.

Well we'll talk about that thank you very much Art for the call. Tom from Brockton Go ahead please you're the Calla Crossley Show eighty nine point seven. WGBH. You know I wouldn't favor pulling people over after not wearing a seatbelt but I think the police and the. They already have enough reasons to pull people over and I'm not necessarily sure about the racial profiling aspect of it. I don't know if that still goes on in the States but one thing I would like to add while we are talking about motor vehicles where I think there is a serious problem. People who drive and allow their automobile insurance to expire and if I've lived in Oregon and in Oregon if you're caught without insurance I believe the way it works is that after your second time with not driving without insurance they seize the vehicle and they auction it off. So you're saying tougher tougher regulations on that end and not so much on the seat belt.

Yeah because everyone. They're bringing up the people who want the seat belt law they're saying that it's going to save lives and it's going to come it's going to save on medical costs. Well I'm not going to debate that that probably is somewhat true. But one thing that is very true that if you get hit by someone who does not have automobile insurance and you're if your insurance is limited with today's medical cost you can really get in a lot of trouble that way. OK. Well what I wave my magic wand I would if the vehicles are in fact impounded by the state and auctioned off that should go to pay for medical costs for the state. All right well that's a good suggestion thank you very much Tom for you for your call. Greg let me let you answer some of this. And I also want to read this Facebook comment which I think is very interesting too. Ryan said I don't need to be hassled by the police for yet another reason to save less than 20 people who aren't even smart enough to wear a seat belt. It's not the job of the government to babysit grown adults. Your guest mentioned the money saved by

fewer hospital visits. But how about the money wasted on putting even more police officers on the road to nag people about wearing their seat belts. So my question to you Greg and you can also answer some of the other stuff that you've heard is. If people aren't wearing them now how does a law help them now. We did have a color is that it did help him but it seems to me that those there are those of us who always put it on and then there are other people who are just sort of about it. Well I think our call then hit the nail on the head is that that he had less than you know strong feelings about it and until he was ticketed and then he started to use them I think the people who just aren't going to affect the people they already do obviously that's already a great thing but that personal experience for the silent majority so to speak is what gets safer. If you look at the belt use rates reported versus observed what people say they do versus what observers

see them doing the reported is always higher. And that speaks to the fact that sometimes we need that and unfortunately you know it ultimately comes down to a personal a personal. Story about families about people about schools about communities and sometimes people in their busy lives have good intentions and they tend to have rose colored glasses. So how do you respond were you were struck by the stress the tragedy and then everything changes in a way it never wanted to. I take your point but I wonder how you respond to Stephanie's point earlier which is that some people already thought we had a primary law that you know was in place and this is their behavior as it is. I guess I would just have to cite the data that shows that every state even up to the recent ones that have changed from secondary enforcement to primary enforcement you get an immediate bump that first year. I do want to also address her point of the you know using this law as sort of a lightning rod for centering the profiling discussion around that

there are already hundreds of other laws on the books. And my friend and colleague Dr. Mike Watkins you know he tells the story of being a kid growing up he said if they wanted to profiling me when I was a kid they'd pull me over my taillight and then tell me I had a broken taillight that that speaks to the profiling issue. But it also speaks to the fact that the seat belt law in itself is not. Is not one that's going to make that problem worse. One last point you asked about. You know what about the current strategy which essentially passed in 95 is secondary enforcement plus education and we have seen a slow tick up but our uptick in rate is much lower than other states and it's kind of like using a dial up strategy in a high speed world. We know that a much better strategy exists. We know that we can get much better belt use with the concomitant lives saved injuries prevented and money saved. And so in any other forum if we were

discussing what we would do we would want to use the best strategy available. And that's what primary enforcement is now. Stephanie I'm going to allow you to speak about this racial profiling again because as you've heard from us a couple of callers are having a hard time wrapping their minds around it. So a couple things I would say and lead into what what you might say. There is a phenomenon called driving while black and it very much exists. The second part of that is that just look over in Connecticut in East Haven where now the Justice Department has identified a police department that was rampantly profiling hugely Latino men primarily. So it does exist it is documented it happens and. There are folks that have to be concerned about whatever what other tools might be available to increase that so that's a real phenomenon that I think a lot of people who've never been profiled really can't wrap their minds around. So I'm going to give you a chance to try to express how why this is really very important to a number of people who are listening to this conversation. Well I don't you know I think a lot of times what we have and I believe Massachusetts is unique

in the sense that we have the data we collected in 2000 and won these states that the doctors referring to did not do this kind of data so to say well it's the same as it was before and before it was what we know what it is now. We know that based on the data and taken every every other other every other reason aside rate race or ethnicity had to do with the stop of the majority of motorists out of three fourths of the state police municipalities around the state. That being said we. Have to understand that even if a seatbelt law is placed made a primary enforcement is not going to guarantee someone's going to put one on. But what it will guarantee is that police officers will now have another basis a legal basis to stop a car. And when we know that the stopping of this car more times than not if it's a person of color is based on perhaps the race that's just another reason instituted in there's not enough information to show that that is something that's going to you know increase seat belt usage as I mentioned earlier there are other ways that we can do this. We can they can put

forward ad campaigns they can be radio television campaigns. We can go into the schools into the hospitals to say why people should we have seatbelts. We already have the Click It or Ticket most people believe it's already a law and they're not wearing their seat belts. So I think that's important forcing people to use a certain device against their will is not ok. I think that what this is doing is they're saying Massachusetts residents are incapable of being educated on the value of seatbelts and they're unable to exercise personal judgment concerning their personal safety I think that's untrue. I think if we have a better campaign we can educate people to use them. But I think the facts are what they are. In Massachusetts people are experiencing. Is what you called it driving while black driving while brown. And that is something that isn't being addressed and I think it's unfair to say that the issue about adding another law on the books to stop people and racial profiling should be separated those are the. To add another law without addressing that problem is just continuing to put to continuing to put drivers at risk of being stopped unnecessarily searched in their civil rights violated and I think we must

stand up and put these two together and say you have to address the data that was given to us in 2001. All right. Wayne from Jefferson Go ahead please you're on the Kelly Crossley Show eighty nine point seven WGBH. Well Kelly thank you for taking my call. Another way of looking at this. If racial profiling is happening and I believe it does I have I have friends that that have been stopped and they believe they were racially profiled. But if that were to happen and more people of minority were stopped then more people can if they did learn as one of the previous callers said that it taught him to to wear the seat belt all the time. Then actually what. We would be doing would be serving the community by saving more lives in that particular community. So you're saying if you know folks driving while black or press get the seatbelt on that's one less reason for for an officer to have to stop them. Exactly the reverse argument I understand that it really shouldn't happen in today's society.

But the net result if behavior is is promoted to for them to wear seat belts then we would be saving more people of color. You know that's actually borne out in the data that states it's changed to primary enforcement have an overall reduction in death rate of 8 percent. The minority death rates go down 11 percent. I mean I guess I'd like to address how many people of color died in for example in Massachusetts last year and does that number reflect the thousands of people who have been profiled and whose civil rights have been violated. The past it's 2007 is the year that we have the last data for car crashes. Four hundred sixty two total deaths 24 black 36 a span. All right. Peter from Stourbridge Go ahead please you're on the callee Crossley Show. Eighty nine point seven WGBH I have two points I want to make. First when I. Growing up I'm 43 when I was growing up the values was almost unheard of. We had a big

station wagon and were rolling around all over the place. When I was a freshman in high school friend of mine was in a car accident and died. And obviously it would have been saved had he been wearing a seat belt. And from that day on I started wearing the belt when I was a senior in high school. I myself was involved in an accident head on with a tree and had I not have my seatbelt on it wouldn't be calling the show. Second point is that I am a criminal defense attorney and have been for about 17 years. I practice in an area that has 84 and the Mass Pike running through it. Historically racial profiling absolutely occurs. That's a fairly well known hoarder. Prior for a stop is yeah.

Racial profiling right. OK. In the last few years I've noticed that that has provided somewhat. One of those statistics bear that out. I'm just telling you anecdotally in my practice it's not as bad as it used to be and that could be dependent on different police officers different administrations. I do not think that the belt laws in any way should be tied in with racial profiling. It's a different issue. And sometimes the government needs to step in to protect people who quite frankly need protecting although I don't agree the government should stick their hands everywhere. I do think that when it affect insurance rates and health insurance rates that we need to do something. And I don't think tying. She thought Bill immigration profiling doesn't exist. So Peter would would you think that a law primary law would get more people to

wear their seat belt. I absolutely do. And despite you know the argument that well people are he think it is. I can tell you that I know it's not and I know there are a lot of people that don't think it is primary because it isn't. I think certainly campaigns promote it. But you know just driving on the MassPike right now and I'm looking around and more than half the people don't have their seatbelts on. Wow that's a good start I have to say. Oh it is I see it all the time you know. Around town you know I thought I don't know if people think it's more of a pain but you know I got to be honest with you. Anyone that has a family member that dies and you know people might have avoided that. Certainly if they're not an advocate that people use and I think there's they're not using that time very well.

All right well Peter thank you very much for your thoughts. Thank you. You know now Peter ray something that does come up often and that's the generational thing you know as he said he grew up in you know so there are a lot of people on the road now who are not using seatbelts and would respond to an educational thing just because it just doesn't occur to them. You know what I my cohort is so narrow that everybody that I know I'm with you Stephanie is wearing a seat belt so this is like. Weird to me I rarely get in a car with anybody that's not going to see those of us who take it for granted. You know it is strange if you feel naked without your seatbelt on. And when the caller referred to people that have died you know when you work with families mothers who have lost their children. I have two personal friends who have lost family members to car crashes since Christmas when it happens in your world. It's devastating. And one point I want to make. You know I I think it's so important for us to look at this as a as an issue in the. Although Stephanie and I are coming at it

from different from different avenues I totally agree with her that you know the coalition working with the minority community getting education know going into schools that's something I would love to see that kind of cooperation between the NWC and the seat belt coalition because clearly all of us want people wear seat belts. Clearly all of us want to save lives and prevent injuries and save money. And there are ways that we can that we can reach out to each other and work. While we're while we're discussing this issue that we are today. Well I do think it's clear that both both of you are in favor of seat belt usage is just how this law comes down. Last word Stephanie. Last word I would just say that I think we need to give Massachusetts residents the benefit of the doubt that with education they will wear their seat belts. It should remain a secondary enforcement law. There is information in studies and facts are already in the books that three fourths of police municipalities across Massachusetts back in 2001 were engaged in some form of racial profiling. If we add yet another law on the books that will

only increase that unfortunately a seatbelt law will not guarantee that someone will put one down put one on. Prevention is the only cure but I think that should come through campaigns I do not think that should be. I do not think that will be solved by Phil but with the stroke of a pen by saying it should be a primary or a primary. Tool for stopping a vehicle I believe that some of these were not were not take into account some of the charges that will come from this I mean we have this is going to result in higher fines for people points insurance surcharges. Theres a whole host of things is going to do. And I believe that we have to we must address the issue of racial profiling in Massachusetts. It was the reason why this bill was stopped in 2001 and it should be the reason why this bill is stopped in 2012. Well when is the lot when is when is the current law to be addressed by legislation. You know it's it's in committee right now in the current session right. So there is it is it will see you shortly. I don't think that discussion will be over about this any time soon we'll be hearing about it. I'm glad to have both of you here to give us thoughtful

perspectives on either side of the issue. We've been discussing the potential pros and cons of the state legislature passes a bill that will elevate not wearing a seat belt to a primary offense. Thanks very much to Attorney Stephanie Soriano mills and Dr. Greg Parkinson and Bernie's forwent is the seat belt bill is named after Bernie's from went to his daughter Natalie who was killed in a car crash thank you both so much for being here. Thank you. Up next we look at another way to stay safe on the road helmet hub. A vending machine that can make bike helmets available to Hardway users this is the Calla Crossley Show on WGBH Boston Public Radio. This program is made possible thanks to you and Skinner presenting oriental rugs and carpets at auction Saturday February 11th at noon Skinner's Boston gallery preview Thursday through Saturday. You can find more information online at Skinner

dot com. And Greenberg Traurig an international law firm with offices in Boston and more than 30 other cities worldwide addressing the complex legal needs of businesses from startups to public companies global reach local resources law dot com. One problem with American cities cars to standing on the street 23 hours a day. They're not being moved. And when drivers move their cars they don't carry passengers. A German entrepreneur sees opportunity we go to help to fill those cars. You know we're going to help people save money cut emissions reduce carbon dioxide in the atmosphere sharing the ride European style. That's next time on the world. Coming up at 3:00 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH. Because a small gesture can make a big impact hitting 9.7 would like to recognize WGBH sustainers supporters who make monthly gift that automatically renews thanks to them. February is fundraiser free if you love fewer fundraisers make a sustaining gift of $5 a month and eighty nine point seven will say thanks with a new CD from NPR's

Story Corps. All there is. Love stories we have as to how many fronts was when we started a conversation 20 years ago and we have never stuck here a sample of WGBH thought org or a question. That's a great question and that's a great question. It's a great question. Rick great question on FRESH AIR feel hear unexpected questions and unexpected answers this afternoon at 2:00 here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. Joining me in the studio are Danny Hicks and Chris Mills. They're students at MIT and members of the team that designed helmet hub a vending machine that dispenses helmets which would work in tandem with Boston subway bike rental service. Thank you both for joining us. Thank you. All right so this is an idea that grew out of your engineering class Danny. Start by telling me how it came to be. Well the class that you're talking about is called Two double or nine which is the product engineering process is the senior capstone design class and MIT for mechanical engineers.

And part of the class is to develop an idea into a real working product an alpha prototype so at the beginning of the semester there was an idea's fair and the city of Boston particularly the people who run headway came to us and were telling us that they needed a solution to get how much to people who were using the system particularly like tourists who aren't you know going to carry around their own helmets and so that's where we initially became aware of the problem. As I understand it Chris every year this class has a theme so the theme was how did the helmet fit into the theme. Well this year's theme is actually really brought it on the go. OK so any product that sort of fit the definition of mobile lifestyle or moving or anything like that. Fell within the theme and for us you know there's probably no better project theme than you know public transportation and new means of that and the Boston subway is sort of the cutting edge of public transit systems in the future that was something

that we were really excited to work on. So did it come to you right away because you know for people to go and look at the video of this but it's like a big old vending machine you know instead of getting candy bar you get a helmet. It's really what it is that just come to you right away. How did how did it all come to be what was the first idea. Yeah actually I mean the problem was you know proposed by Nicole from the subway and they came to our ideas fair where companies can come and say like we have this problem you know maybe you can think about a way to fix it. And so they came in and they said we want to get helmets to people and that was kind of the end of it. And of course they didn't come to us immediately. You know the final product is probably you know like revision three or four of the design and probably like 30 or 40 of the dispensing mechanism itself. It's a really it's an iterative process you try one thing and you learn this and you say like it doesn't quite work but actually that gives me an idea about this other thing we could do. And so our project changed a lot throughout the course of the term.

So describe it if you would. Because I just did my crew description but you describe how it works. All right so it is a little bit like a vending machine. It's about eight feet tall 40 inches deep and about 14 inches wide. And on one side the front of the machine you'll pay insert your credit card and you pull the handle and how much will drop out below you take it out write it read your bike wear your helmet and then when you're done you go to the back side of the machine and you'll insert your helmet used helmet into a door and it will be collected and stored there until maintenance worker comes around and collects them. And then the sides of the machine have a map. So if you're interested in going to different subway stations you can you know see around Boston where you could go and then space for ads too so it's similar to a map panel that the current subway stations have. So I understand you can either rent those helmets or you can buy them. Yeah as it is right now you can go to a CBS or some other you know store that they've indicated on their maps and you can purchase a helmet and you can

potentially return it at certain stores for a discount on the rental price. But it's kind of an ineffective solution because the stores are sort of out of the way and not necessarily you know convenient or conducive to encouraging people to wear helmets. But with the vending machine you can purchase or rent. Yeah yeah. So you can try to do that also. It seems now you know of course after you've suffered and sweated over and now it seems so simple why somebody come up with that because I have to say Chris that I did the story with a lot of people at the opening of the subway began. The whole bike system and the first question I asked are one of the first was well what about helmets and helmets are very important in this in terms of safety right. Absolutely and actually it's super common question among bike share programs everywhere. Seattle and Washington and Portland Oregon are both they were both really interested in bike share programs but their helmet laws don't let them have you know any leeway about having a bike share program because they absolutely have to have helmets. There's a big paper

from the University of Washington about it and they've actually thought about repealing their helmet laws so that they can get a bike share program. So how much it's own you know it's it always comes up when people talk about bike share programs they say OK well what about how mits. So you know the problem is though it's a difficult problem to solve. You know there's there's a lot of constraints around. You know the bike share programs here are self supported they don't tap into the city's grid or water supply lines so we have to design a machine that's compact and can supply helmets but also doesn't take a lot of power and it integrates well with that and you know can be vandal proof and you know all these other aspects and it's you know it's not an obvious it's here doesn't seem like an obvious solution beforehand. You know it's always a sign that you did something good when after and you're like wow really that's it. Yeah. And also so well for Boston the big thing too is also space because we have so little of it really. And so the dimensions that you mentioned Danny just so next to the bikes is that how it works out.

Yeah we definitely designed it with the thought that it would go next to the existing Hellboy station so we know that a lot of them around the city are just taking up parking spaces or you know whatever sidewalk spaces available so the size is certainly a concern and that's why the machine is pretty thin from side to side and you know it could be oriented in different ways to fit in Boston. So what what issues that you still have to solve now I know one is in terms of rental of people feeling like you know they're going to use a helmet that's quote used though I don't I really don't get that I have to say. But can you talk about that either one of you. I mean there are there are lots of you know there's lots of further development making machine smoother and you know polishing all the different aspects to just really give the best possible user experience. And like you said sanitation is one that always comes up when people hear about the machine or we talk about it people would say like there's a large of a lot of people who are sort of uncomfortable with the idea of using you know used helmet. And the that

aspect is still in a lot of refinement because right now our machine doesn't immediately place used helmets back into circulation we collect the helmet so that you know you don't have to carry around a helmet all day and you can get some money back. But at that point you know our current model is to allow those helmets to be collected by you know hub way or any other bike share program. And then they can choose whether they want to try and sanitize them and inspect them visually make sure they're not damaged and put them back in circulation or they can recycle them. But tackling even if it's not a problem you know if it seems like a problem to people it is a problem. Yeah yeah I'm trying to figure that out and it's a big area development. Plus trying to get more helmets in the machine. Just you know optimizing our capacity. I don't know how many can you get in there now. Right now we can fit 12. You know one machine which from data about how many use was approximately the number of home its a need per station for a week. And we believe that increased availability of home as being at the station will probably drive up helmet use by a pretty significant amount so we aim for 12 per day being serviced once per

day. But we'd really like to of course get more helmets if that means less maintenance or help away. Now Danny are you dealing with just adult kids right you're not dealing with like Kid helmets at this point. No right now the hard way rules require the users to be at least 16 years old so you don't need small sized helmets in the helmets that we're finding right now are adjustable so there's like a strap in the back that you can change the width of and that's wide range of heads it's definitely not a perfect solution but right now we think it's the best one because it's the helmets the public systems actually using. Now the thing about mechanical engineering such as I know and believe me it's minute is that you have to build the thing yourself so how did you how did you build it. Well we definitely had a lot of help from the staff at MIT specifically. We worked in Poplar Labs which is a mechanical engineering lab and there's really excellent machinists there that are there to not only help you build your project but help you. They they teach you the skills that you need to know to to be able to build it yourself and so that was

maybe one of the most valuable experiences at least for me was to to learn you know the welding and the assembly and the fabrication techniques that we needed to be able to build this. But we did build it all at MIT and we didn't outsource any of that aspect of the product development. Well I know a lot of people may graduate and wonder what job they have but now you have a company this is this project is now set up as a company that will be doing this. I would imagine you could service Seattle or Portland of these cities with these helmet laws that don't have a solution to how to solve their problem there. That's right. A group of us from our table and I in team. Have chosen to continue with this and now we're you know pursuing start up with it and starting with all that and further development and ultimately you know we just we want we don't want people to have to choose between convenience and safety. If it comes down to it you know like a lot of the bike accidents that happen in Boston are along Commonwealth mass and that's where a lot of the public stations are. You know I know if I if I met one of those stations it's not near

CBS or a Walgreens and I would have worn a helmet but it's not like I want to walk three blocks to go get one I'll just. OK I'll be all right this time. You know it's a shame that somebody has to make that choice and we just want to give people the option you know. And if that means that it also allows more places like Seattle or Portland or you know any other city that has a bike share or a helmet laws that don't let them have a bike share program right now if that enables them to have one that's all the better because I think we're also really passionate about bikes yours as like the future of public transit. Do you ride bikes now. Do you get off campus. OK. Fortunately I'm pretty good but you understood the whole the meaning and the reason for doing this. I learned here that your original prototype at 50 moving parts and now it's four parts. That's actually very smart. Well. You know either that or you started behind. Oh OK so I didn't think about that.

Yeah like I said that's part of the iterative process you know if you build something and it's almost always like just massively complex you know we had a very complicated mechanism to start with and then you know we're cranking through and trying to get it to work and then it's like oh we can just Actually scrap all that we can just do this thing and then we fiddle with that and realize oh actually it can be even simpler you know. And by the end of it yeah we had simplified from this you know very complicated like grasping claw type mechanism to now this you know a very simple one motion one moving part you know four pieces. Machine that we have now so it's kind of part of it. So have you met Mayor Menino yet this is you know the hub I think is huge for him so that he must be thrilled about this. Yeah we haven't met him yet we invited him to our final presentation but we understand he's a very busy man. But we do know we've heard some of the interviews he's done and we know he's really interested in the program and that he's particularly passionate about for headway so we definitely understand that he's got an interest in this to help. He's at least heard about it and maybe

seen the video. Last word from you too I'm always interested because you've slaving over these you know theoretic classes where you're looking at little squiggles on a page forever and then you do something like this that has such a purpose and a use and people like me can get excited about it how does that make you feel. It's amazing. I don't think I really felt like an engineer until before I took this class and like had the opportunity to really build a product so it's definitely sort of the culmination of our engineering education and we're really fortunate to be you know at MIT and have the opportunity to do something so incredible and receive such great feedback from it. Thank you. That's that says it all. Oh I love it. I can't even be a thank you I'm biased about it I love it. Thank you. OK thank you. We've been talking about bike helmets with Danny Hicks and Chris Mills they're part of a team at MIT that's designed helmet hub a machine that dispenses bike helmets are a perfect companion to Boston's bike share program. Subway thank you again. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla

Crossley follow us on Twitter or become a fan of the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook. This is the Calla Crossley Show today's program was engineered by Antonio only art and produced by Chelsea murders. Will Rose live and Abbey Ruzicka we're a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.