American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Mary Jean Smith, 3 of 3

[tone] [tone] [Host]: Just, uh, I guess, recap, um, you know, they, one night they [Guest]: Yeah, one night, um, they came and, told us to get our stuff together and took everybody to Parchman penitentiary and that was quite a ways away, I'm not sure how far away it was [clears throat], but we were put it in in these cells which, uh, separated us. We weren't, we were no longer in a big cell together, it was harder to, to talk to each other, you know, because you couldn't just 2 people in a c-, 3 people in a cell and [clears throat] you trying to holler down the, the row and it was not as easy as it was at, at, and plus, uh, when you go take your shower, I think we had a shower once a week, they made it a point of taking you passed the, uh, electric chair

to show you where you could end up and that was I just looked at it, you know, but I didn't think that they were gonna put me in there, but that was their way of intimidating you, um, I di- [Host]: What else did they do to intimidate you? [Guest]: I cannot remember a lot in Parchman, as far as taking away your mattress and everything, I do know that after being there about a week, I was the person, I was always the one on the floor on the mattress and they came by one morning and asked, well, they didn't ask, they told, one person to come out of the cell and that person was me, and they took the mattress out and they did that in each cell that had 3 people, and, um, took us to the hospital and that's where I stayed until they released us after 39 days, um, and when

our 39 days total was up, um, so I didn't know what was going on in the maximum security unit during that time that I was in the hospital, they did- [Host]: Talk about, sorry, talk about, you know, you had your, kind of, grooming and toiletry things in Hinds county but now you're in Parchman, were you like [Guest]: I don't know what we did in Parchman because then we did not have our suitcases, we had on the stripes, the skir-, I think I had a skirt and top, and I don't even know if I had shoes. ?unintelligible? the goodness [Host]: What was ?unintelligible? stripes, the, was it prison stripes? [Guest]: Yeah. [Host]: Okay, describe how you had to [Guest]: Take your clothes off and put this on. I don't remember anything I don't know if they re-mugged us again or fingerprinted us again, I'm not, I really don't know, I cannot, that,

that started blanking out. [Host]: Okay [Guest]: And, um, it was kind of, it was kind of lonesome in that hospital, but it was a little, it was not real, real bad because there was one matron, um, well, she was a prisoner too, but she was nice and, uh, she tried to be nice and everything, I do not remember who else was in there with me, but I'm sure there were more people in the cells that were overcrowded than ?man? and I know I wasn't in there alone, but it was nobody that I can remember, I know it wasn't from Nashville, or anybody that I went to school with, so they were all, you know, strangers. We got, we'd talk but I don't remember who they were. [Host]: Okay. Alright, let's cut. Let's do the letters. [Engineer]: Yes. We're rolling. [Guest]: Okay. While in Hinds county, we would receive notes from,

or letters postcards from stu, from college students and, um, they were our penpals and i received some, uh, cards from students from Swathmore, and this [Host]: I'm sorry, do that one more time, just say in jail, [Guest]: In jail [Host]: So people will know, cause if you're not-you don't know what Hinds County is, or prison, or, if that's appropriate. [Guest]: OK, what did I say. OK, while in jail, uh, we received letters from college students to keep our morale up, um, I received some postcards from penpals from Swarthmore, and this is one I received on May 30th, it says,"Dear Mary, I am a student at Swarthmore College, I was shocked to hear of the way you Freedom Riders were treated but I certainly think you are doing a wonderful thing. We are all rooting for you here." This was from Sue Iverson from Swarthmore College. [Host]: Ok good, you have to do it again cause there was too much noise. [Laughter] [Guest]: No

the whole thing? [Host]: Yeah, so you can just move at the end, I mean because you established you told me something right? [Engineer]: ?inaudible? [Host]: You know, just until the intro cause she's got to set it up. [Engineer]: OK. [Guest]: OK, so do I talk first and then bring it up? [Host]: Yeah. [Guest]: OK. While in jail we received, uh, cards from college students to keep our morale up. Uh, they were our penpals. And I received some postcards from students from Swarthmore. This is one that I received on May 30th 1961. It said, "Dear Mary, I am a student at Swarthmore College. I was shocked to hear of the way you Freedom Riders were treated but I certainly think you are doing a wonderful thing. We are all rooting for you here. Sue Iverson." [Host]: Good, OK. [Engineer]: We are rolling, we have speed.

[Guest]: Um, while in jail I would keep a log every time someone come in, I would write their names down, I tried to keep a record of it. I was in cell 1 and in that cell there was a Jane Thomas from New Orleans, Pauline Knight from Nashville, Eda Simpson from Nashville, Catherine Burks, Birmingham, Frances Wilson, Cincinnati, Glenda G-, Glenda Jane Gaither from South Carolina and Sandra Nixon from New Orleans. Uh, cell 2 had Patricia Brown from New York, Gwendolyn Jenkins, St. Louis, Shirley Thomas, New Orleans, Gwendolyn Greene, Washington, Ruby Doris Smith, Atlanta Georgia. Uh, Rita Carter, Los Angeles, Carolyn Reed, Gallatin, Mrs. Wyatt T. Walker. Those were just a few of the people that I know were in those 2 cells. [Host]: OK, let's try that one more time and look at me, not the camera, and then should she take it off ?off the? [Smith] If I take it off, off the -- [Engineer]: I can do it as as a, as a

as a, uh lockoff, OK? At the end. [Smith]: I can't take it apart, it might fall apart. [Host]: Oh, OK, then don't do that. Um, I mean, meaning like - [Engineer]: Cameras rolling. [Host]: OK, so then, uh, pause, [Host]: and do the same set up and then look at me and then read. [Guest]: While in jail, I would keep a log every day of people as they came and try to see who was from where and... [Host]: [Laughter] pause. [Guest]: OK. While in jail I kept a diary every day and I kept a log of all the people that were in my cell and the cell next to me and it's a few of them that were in cell number one, the cell I was in. There was Jane Thomas from New, from New Orleans, Pauline Knight from Nashville, Etta Simpson from Nashville, Catherine Burks from, um, Birmingham. Frances

Wilson, now those people were my classr-were my classmates at ?t-issue? also. Glenda Gather from South Carolina Clathon College, and Marie Nixon from southern New Orleans. [Host]: OK wait, start over. [Smith]: I forgot. [Host]:Yeah, you did college this time and not ?inaudible?, so let's just not do - [Smith]: Yeah, say the whole thing all [Guest]: over again? [Engineer]: Yes, sweetie. [Smith]: While in jail I kept a log of all the s-people as they came. I tried to keep a diary every day and these are a few of the people that were there in the, 2 of the cells. I was in cell number 1. And some of my cellmates were, Jane Thomas from New Orleans. Pauline Knight, Nashville. Etta Simpson, Nashville. Catherine Burks, Birmingham. Frances Wilson, Cincinnati. Glenda Gai-, Glenda Jane Gaither, South Carolina. Sandra Nixon, New Orleans. Cell number 2 there was Patricia Bryant from New York. Gwendolyn Jenkins, St.

Louis. Shirley Thomas, New Orleans. Gwendolyn Green, Washington. Ruby Doris Smith, Atlanta Georgia. Um, Rita Carter, Los Angeles. Caroline Reed, Gallatin and Mrs. Wyatt T. Walker. [Host]: Great. [Smith]: I received this letter from CORE. It was dated August 3rd and it goes, "Dear Ms. Smith, the city of Jackson has informed our lawyers, that all of us who were convicted and released on bond are required to return to Jackson on Monday morning August 14th. [Host]: OK hold on, so do another quick set up like, after, you know, now we're gonna go to court ?unintelligible? [Guest]: After being released from Parchman and return, returning home. In August I received a letter from CORE that said, "Dear Ms. Smith, the city of Jackson has informed our lawyers

that all of us who were convicted and released on bond are required to return to Jackson on Monday morning, August 14th. Actually need you in Jackson on Sunday the 13th to meet together before the trials and speak with the attorneys. This is essential since your case may be called very early on Monday morning. The battle of Jackson is just beginning. Your participation has made this the most exciting and influential civil rights struggle of the decade. We do not know how long the trials will take. As far as possible, you should plan to stay for an indefinite time. We've made the decision to be Freedom Riders and now we are challenged to continue the ride. Jim Crow will not die easily. Sincerely yours, James Farmer, National Director." [Host]: OK pause, let's try that again somehow, um, with the paper turning, great - [Smith]: Um - [Host]: Stop, do a little intro. [Smith]: Hm? [Host]: Ok, then explain a little, briefly. [Smith]: OK, after we return home from, after

we were released from prison and returned home in August we received this letter from CORE. It reads, "Dear Ms. Smith, The city of Jackson has informed our lawyers that all of us who were convicted and released on bond are required to return to Jackson on Monday morning August 14th. [coughing] [coughing] [papers turning] [inaudible whispers] "We actually need you in Jackson on Sunday the 13th, to meet together before the trials and speak with the attorneys. This is essential since your case may be called very early on Monday morning. The battle of Jackson is just beginning. Your participation has made this the most exciting and infl- influential civil rights struggle of the decade. We don't, we do not know how

long the trials will take. As far as possible, you should plan to stay for an indefinite time. We made the decision to be freedom riders and now we are challenged to continue this ride. Jim Crow will not die easily. Sincerely yours, James Farmer, National Director." [Host]: OK, some silence, this is room tone. Thank you. OK, that's just it. [Guest]: OK. The point of this letter was to get as many of the Freedom Riders back to Jackson at the same time, um, for trial and I received this one and it concluded

with saying, "the battle of Jackson is just beginning, your participation has made this the most exciting and influential civil rights struggle of the decade. We do not know how long the trials will take. As far as possible, you should plan to stay for an indefinite time. We made the decision to be Freedom Riders and now we are challenged to continue the ride. Jim Crow will not die easily. Sincerely yours, James Farmer, National Director." [Host]: Good, oh my god, we got it. [Engineer]: Want me to shelve it? [inaudible] [Engineer]: Next one.

[Engineer]: Rolling. ?Tellme? could you move to your right just, no left sorry. sorry. Thank you. Also your foot. Sorry. [Smith]: That's it. [Engineer]:Yeah, ok, so put up, put the, uh, the first one back and, and then [COUGHING] move, move to your left a little bit, and now the, turn the page.

[pages turning] [Inaudible] [Host] First page, please, sorry. Do it one more time. Ok turn the page. [Page turning] [Page turning]