WGBH Radio; The Callie Crossley Show

I'm callin Crossley This is the calico sling shot. We're talking about the MBT the transportation system is literally and figuratively going off the rails facing a 161 million dollar deficit and no end of the repairs. It's broke and broken. To get things back on track officials are suggesting steep fare hikes across the board a one way train ride could cost 225 fare for a single bus ride could go up by 50 cents. The MTA is also proposing service cuts across the commonwealth which would affect the commuter rail bus routes and the ride which provides transportation for the disabled. Do these fare hikes and service cuts spell disaster for folks who rely on public transportation. Or is this the only way the cash strapped and beleaguered system can prevent growing debt and future breakdowns. Up next tea and sympathy or tea antipathy. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying five more bodies have

been pulled from the wreckage of a capsized cruise liner off the coast of Tuscany. Nearly doubling the death toll. The search continues for more than 20 people who have been missing since the vast Costa Concordia hit a reef Friday. The captain of that ship Francesco get the you know maintains he is not guilty of manslaughter or leaving the ship before the more than 4000 passengers were evacuated. But NPR's Sylvia Poggioli reports an audio tape of skip the conversation with the Italian coastguard suggests a much different story. Today's newspapers are filled with transcripts of the telephone conversations between the Coast Guard in the city of any boat and the closest Coast Guard and the captain of the ship and the very dramatic you hear him contradicting himself for she says he's abandoned the ship that he denies it. He says many all the passengers have been evacuated there were still almost 4000 onboard. It's a very dramatic tape it certainly is very damning against Captain Francesco's catena. NPR's Sylvia Poggioli in Rome. Democrats are announcing

major changes to their nominating convention in Charlotte North Carolina this summer. NPR's Ari Shapiro reports that the party is trying to win some southern states that have historically voted for Republicans instead of the traditional four day convention the gathering in Charlotte will last only three. With the fourth used to quote organize and celebrate the Carolinas Virginia and the south. The Democratic National Committee also announced that the last day of the convention is moving to Bank of America Stadium the football stadium is larger and it gives the Democrats more opportunities to sell sky boxes to wealthy donors. It's also outdoor So the imagery may recall the convention in Denver four years ago when Barack Obama accepted the Democratic presidential nomination in front of thousands of cheering supporters. There are some potential drawbacks though. The name of the stadium for one Bank of America has come under a lot of criticism in the last year for policies that critics say take advantage of consumers. Ari Shapiro NPR News the White House. The front runner in the Republican race for president is trying to deflect more attacks from his

rivals in the run up to South Carolina's primary Saturday. An ad for Mitt Romney takes aim at Rick Santorum who accuses Romney of waging a smear campaign. The ad suggests Santorum is willing to allow all felons to vote again a claim the former Pennsylvania senator denies. After a poor showing in New Hampshire Santorum is looking for a boost from more conservative and evangelical voters in the south. Well President Obama's re-election could hinge on how voters feel he has handled the U.S. economy today Mr. Obama told his jobs council he's made substantial progress in fielding different ideas for faster economic recovery. Thursday in Florida the president's expected to announce a new strategy to bolster tourism and travel. Florida holds its primary at the end of the month. At last check on Wall Street Dow up more than 100 points to twelve thousand five twenty eight. This is NPR. The Obama administration has announced a ban on the import of Burmese pythons and some other large snakes.

NPR's Greg Allen reports from Miami it's part of an effort to control a species that's become well established in Florida's Everglades Burmese pythons and grow up to 20 feet have been known in Florida to prey on Deer Bobcats even alligators. The population began after pet owners dumped unwanted snakes and now it's considered a threat to the many endangered species found in Everglades National Park. Because of that Florida acted last year to restrict ownership of Burmese pythons and several other large constrictors the action being taken today by the federal government would ban importation and interstate trade in for snake species. Burmese North African and South African pythons also yellow anacondas Interior Secretary Ken Salazar says a ban was considered for other large constrictor species but those for the one scientists say pose the greatest threat. An association of reptile breeders say the rule will cause harm to a multimillion dollar industry. Greg Allen NPR News Miami. The Supreme Court upholding a lower court ruling the bars in North Carolina county from opening its meetings with mostly Christian prayers. Commissioners in

Forsyth were accused of violating the First Amendment's ban on government endorsement of a particular religion. The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals based in Richmond said it found that three quarters of the 33 invocations at meetings refer to Jesus Christ and accuse on line poker payment processors pleading guilty to conspiracy charges Ira Rubin appeared in federal court in Manhattan today months after his arrest in April. He's accused of helping several leading online poker sites which did business with U.S. customers to shift billions of dollars in illegal gambling revenues overseas. This is NPR. Support for NPR comes from Cabot creamery cooperative five generations of New England and New York farm families working together to produce naturally aged traditional Vermont cheddar cheese. Good afternoon I'm Kalee Crossley. We're talking about the YM BTA this hour. In order to pay off a multimillion dollar deficit the NPT has proposed fare hikes

and service cuts starting tonight the MBT will hold the first of 20 public hearings where citizens can weigh in on these proposals. Joining me to jumpstart this conversation are Jonathan Davis the acting general manager of the BTA Kyle Chaney a reporter for the Statehouse News. And Lizzie Wyatt a staff attorney for mass per Thank you all for joining us today. Thank you for having me good to be here. Ok I am going to start with you why don't you explain the two proposals really the two general rules that are on this. Sure. Well the NBA like a lot of transit agencies across the country is facing a pretty severe budget crunch and the TE's case they're about one hundred sixty million dollars short of what they would need to operate the system in the upcoming budget year and really have a couple levers to pull when that happens and that the two basically are fare hikes and service cuts to help balance that budget so earlier this month as you mentioned they've rolled out a couple of proposals that include a mix of both. One of the low end of the fare hikes to be 35 percent fare hike. The high end it's 43 percent and that would

mean on the high end going from dollars 70 percent we're right to 240 and for a bus ride going from 125 to 175. And those are both be coupled both iterations of the proposal would be coupled with service cuts things like elimination of ferry service or scaled back a commuter rail schedule. And I guess Service Service comes to the ride which is used for which is for people with disabilities to travel in terms of both where they service and the cost of that ride as well. Parking fees would go up under both proposals so it's really across the board could affect pretty much every commuter who relies on public transportation. You've been covering this for some time and there hasn't really been an increase in fare since 2007 so if if we had regular increases would this be about where we would be at this point. It's hard to say where we maybe it's a think you can look at I think one of the things you'll hear from the MTA is that every pretty much every major transit agency across the country has raised fares in response to the

economic downturn of the last few years. The TV is pretty much one of if not the only exception one of the only exceptions. And so they think that you know that's one reason it could be more palatable I guess a law no one enjoys the fare the fare increase it has been a long time since commuters here have seen it and in some cases they even say it's not a bad policy to have incremental fare increases over time to match with the rising cost of service. Providing service right over to Jonathan Davis who is head of the acting general manager of the M bta. So Mr Davis first of all exactly how much is the debt. There's a lot of numbers flying along so round what the actual bottom line that we currently have a proxy five point two billion dollars worth of debt. We are probably the most highly leveraged transit system in the United States. Thirty cents of every dollar we collect in revenue goes to pay principal and interest payments and that's equivalent to all fair revenue. So we've been hearing through various reports and we've even done some stories here about

how much the team needs in terms of repairs and how old the system is and blah blah blah. And so is it really a matter of all of these things catching up or is it also the economy at the same time. What's what's happening. Well what we're seeing currently is increased ridership which is encouraging to us 10 months in a row we've had year over year gains in ridership across the system November alone was a five and a half percent increase versus the previous year. That's why it's difficult to propose some of the service changes in fare increases in a time more and more people are relying on public transportation as their transportation mode of choice. It really is a lot of all of the above. We have about a 3 billion dollar backlog on stated good repair projects in other words infrastructure reinvestment and modernization you do point out that. We are an old system with the oldest subway system United States and we operate continue to operate along some of that card

today. So it takes a quite a deal of capital investment and reinvestment to be able to make sure that we can provide reliable service. One thing I would like to clarify as it relates to the RIDE program. There would not be any service reductions for the ride however we're talking about having a premium fare and a fare it throughout the system so those communities that aren't within three quarters of a mile of the corridor of the subway runs would be subject to that premium fare which could be either five to 12 dollars depending on which proposal the customer is looking at. But I did want to make sure that people understood that there is no proposed service reductions to the ride but there is an increase to the fare which would go up to three of 450 in the three quarter of a mile or so and it would either be five a $12 in that premium right territory.

And when you say 88 that's Americans with Disabilities That's correct yes. Just that we get the jargon out here for I don't think it was a lot for matching that are going on. So it seems clear that some fare hike was going to happen perhaps maybe not as drastic but at this point some fare hike is happening. Well as we all one of two major transits United States that haven't had a fare increase the past five yes Baltimore is the other one. And if the globe are e and a comparison of our fares vs. the other major transits in the US and currently we're on the low end of what it costs to ride the BTA. I do believe that periodic fare increases should be considered. We haven't had one for a full five years. Sometimes when you wait too long the sticker shock associated with that can be difficult for people to want to understand. And also to pay for it so we do

understand that but I costs go up costs go up like any business be it energy costs be it. Employee costs we do need to recognize that we have increased the operating cost it to some extent that should be reflective of the fears that we judge our customers. But just to be clear probably some fare hike and reduction in service is happening. Now the question is how much happens. But some is happening given everything you've just said. I think that's correct. OK already you Lizzie Wian staff attorney from Asperger tell us why M. has a dog in this fight for one thing. And what's your concern about these proposed fare hikes and service reductions. Well mass purge is a state wide consumer advocacy group we have thousands of members across the state. We've been working on transportation as a top priority campaign for about 12 years now. We see it as good public policy to have good public transportation and roads and bridges that we can rely on you know from our perspective the fare hikes and service cuts that are being proposed are

really indicative of a larger state wide transportation funding problem that we think really needs to be addressed. And the issue for us is that the ferry service cuts don't really address that larger problem as as the general manager pointed out. The team has seen an unbelievable increase in in ridership over the past year I think it's safe to say. And the thing that we know about fare hikes and service cuts is that it has a significant and direct impact on ridership insofar as ridership will decrease immediately as soon as these. Proposals are actually implemented and it's it is kind of trying to balance its books. Books on the back of its most valuable assets which its writer which or its writers and we we think that that is just sort of a bad public policy when it should be really trying to preserve the ridership gains that its seen in the past year. And then the other problem is that the proposals really only fix the problem for one year as soon as the next fiscal year the deficit could be as close to a quarter of a billion dollars. So for us we think that you know the T really needs

to be kind of thinking about in terms of a larger picture of the larger state transportation funding problem. And when you say it fixes it for one year some of the jest of it doesnt fix it because you know you raise the fares and its one to one its a wash really in terms of just keeping up with the kind of employee cost increases that Jonathan Davis is just reminded us of another cost. Exactly I think that is I think that's a really fair assessment. It doesn't really fix it. OK. We're going to be opening up the lines at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. The MBT I will be hosting a public hearing tonight but you can have your say right now at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. You can write to our Facebook page or send us a tweet on the line now is Lee met psuedo program director for the tea Writers Union League you for joining us. Thank you for having me. Who are the people most affected by this.

Yeah. So if you if you look at the proposals you see that there are seniors students we look at that work in people families lower income people who are going to be severely impacted by these proposals. And you know give me a little bit more description of who we are. We are talking about what have people been saying to you after they were asked what was made at these kind of fare hikes that potentially could be put in place. I mean the stories we're hearing are far and wide. You know they they go from a senior who is you know dependent on the 1 12 Boston Chelsea who is afraid that she's not going to be able to get to her doctor's appointments or the the grocery store to get food. We also hear from young students who are high school age saying you know I need this service to be able to get between school and a job or an afterschool activity. And if this fare goes up or my past goes up the 40 dollars a 100 percent. Increase I'm afraid I cannot going to be able to pay that. And then you have folks who are just you know saying listen this right now

I can't afford this. I can't afford it. And you know this is going to have a serious impact on everywhere I go everything I do I have to make tough choices between paying bills and walking versus using the subway system with a T. Are you one of those who agrees that this will reduce the ridership the fare hikes and service cuts. Yeah I mean I think the NBA has those numbers it's very clear that with every fare increase we see that loss of ridership. It's significant and it looks like you know almost a million rides a day. I mean I'm sorry a week that are lost that significant and I think the impact goes beyond just the daily lives of the folks that I mentioned but also you know we talk about congestion we talk about imagining more and more cars in the streets. Those have definite environmental impacts on our health and our community health. We also talk about an economy that depends on the system to clean this region to keep the little lifeblood and all their workers and people moving back and forth. So you know you mentioned there will be more cars in the street desperate people who have cars but for people who

for whom this is it. Where do they go. That's a great question I mean I don't I don't know that these folks don't have an answer I think they're looking directly to the governor to our state legislators they want to see another solution because they don't have a choice. It's between that and walking maybe jumping on a bike. These are all great options but at the same time many folks who don't have the physical ability to do either of those are going to be left stranded and so I think they're really looking to leadership at the state level to start coming up with some solutions because they exist. There are many alternatives aside from fare increases and cuts that are on the. All right thanks Lee. We've set the table with really the all of the points that some of the points that need to be made as people start considering what these hikes mean both short term and long long term. And we're going to continue the conversation we're discussing the end BTA and what proposed fare hikes and service cuts would mean for the Bay State. We're opening up the lines at

8 7 7 3 0 1 8 8 9 7 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. How will this affect you if you can't make it to tonight's public hearing Now's your chance to voice your concerns. 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. You can send us a tweet or write to our Facebook page. You're listening to eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston Public Radio. Coming. From. This program is made possible thanks to you and Greenberg Traurig an international law firm with offices in Boston and more than 30 other cities worldwide addressing the complex legal needs of businesses start up the public companies global reach local resources dot com. And Comcast Internet essential Internet Essentials is available to help families in need. Families with students qualified for free school lunches may be eligible for Internet Essentials you can learn more at

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Context beyond the headline issues you want to know more about. Stories you'll want to share. News at WGBH news. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just joining us we're talking about the way in order to make necessary repairs in an effort to pay off a multimillion dollar deficit the MBT is suggesting fare hikes and some service cuts. I'm joined by Jonathan Davis the acting general manager of the BTA. Kyle Chaney a reporter for Statehouse News. Lizzie Wyatt a staff attorney for mass murder and Lee met psuedo program director for the tea writers union is also on the line. Tonight there will be the first of 20 public hearings but you can weigh in right now at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. What's your take on these proposals how will they affect you. 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70.

Luke from Taunton Go ahead please you're on the callee Crossley Show WGBH eighty nine point seven. My comment is that I'm not against a fair and just perfect. I think that when I do. I think that in the long term God would ask me How do you know right. But if they're going for it. I think they ought to be who train and the subway and the time of day that the writers taped it low rather than the time of day when the artists. Look let me ask a question do you ride the T much. I used to when I was the boss and now I'm an outsider looking in on it. OK thanks very much for the call Lee. Let's go to Alabama and Somerville Go ahead please you're on the Calla Crossley Show WGBH eighty nine point seven. Hi I have a couple things One is I wondered if you know having been laid off myself three times is the way to lay off some workers and not cut

service because private business does that all the time you just sort of have to assume work from other people and the second thing is I've noticed on the green line I don't take it quite as frequently as the red line but there were a number of times when they treat their drivers would just let the. Students get on for free and not have them pay. Maybe it was inclement weather or something and I wondered if they could sort of crack down on that so that they could cut down on that kind of waste. OK very good questions I'm going to put those to Jonathan Davis. Sure thank you for those comments. We've done a great deal of productivity improvements in cost efficiency throughout the system over the past 10 years to some extent I would argue that we may have gone too far as a relates to headcount. We need to make sure that we can continue to watch over the funds that are provided to us by either the Federal Transit Administration our our customers to make sure we have the appropriate compliance procedures in place.

We do have lower headcount than we had five to seven years ago so we've done a pretty good job at managing a reduction in headcount through attrition as a relates to the Green Line. We do have a program in place that is being run by the operations group in gun judge and with our police to take a look at the Green Line and determining how best to make sure that all of our custom is pay when they enter our system and use our system so we do recognize the fact that we have to make sure we collect all the revenue that's available to us and we put in several programs to make sure that we remind our customers about paying fans but also to monitor that compliance. Are those students that she observed getting on for free. Is that enough to have thrown off you know a big line in the budget and the big budgeting just just asking. No I don't believe that any additional cost savings or

productivity improvements that we come up with it will always look for those we don't feel that Jobs finish will continue to look for those. And also any additional revenue measures that we can put in place will not have a material impact to the hundred sixty one million dollar deficit but it would NOT going to ignore it either. We're going to continue to take a look at cost efficiencies and we're going to continue to take a look at ways in enforcing and making sure everyone pays their fair share. Jenny I wonder if you would have you going if you had was I going to jump on that. Yeah I know that Secretary Daley Secretary of Transportation has noted that the fare evasion I think he's planning to support legislation that would actually increase fines for fare evasion thinks only a $15 fine if you get caught. That is correct not really a deterrent to a lot of people anyway whereas in New York I think something like $250. That is correct we would like to see a fine that is a deterrent for people not paying their fair share and we don't believe the $15 is does that. But that on the table as part of these proposals while we continue to work with the

legislature to get that legislation passed for us. But again we don't think that that would have a material impact to the hundred sixty one million dollar deficit that we have. But the police could do continue to issue fare evasion fined It's up 10 percent versus the prior. Kyle I wanted you to speak to and the fact that I think a lot of people don't know that he has to balance its budget. There is you know if in and around that exactly it's a legal obligation. They're not allowed to operate at a deficit. So essentially when this is when he is 160 million dollars short of what it needs to cover its expenses he's got to find a hundred 60 million dollars of solutions and like as I mentioned earlier the only leverage they really have to pull our fair hikes or service cuts when they've exhausted all the other efficiency options and I think people that say they make cuts and reductions over the years. Another thing that's important to remember is that one of the reasons that he's been able to avoid a fare hike for five years is that in 2009 the legislature raised the sales tax 25 percent. And it's a

lot of the proceeds of that increase have gone to support transportation agencies transportation services and so you know it's. Well it's one of the reasons they've been able to avoid it so far. Now as I understand it and Jonathan you may answer this is that the T cannot approach the legislature directly about you know help us out. Give us a you know that's a come from other organizations groups whatever. And Lizzie you can answer this too. What I need to work with is the tools that I have available to you and that's not one and the tools I have available is fair's fair revenue we continue to take a look at ways of increasing no unfair revenue such as concessions and advertising that's actually up 74 percent and I got that I just want to the point I'm trying to get to is that if you wanted to you cannot go down to the legislature sit in front of them and say hey you know oh are you watching this we need some you know money here that's just not that's not something that you're that you're allowed to do what I need to work with are those that I can control.

OK answer to that is it. Yes but you know I think one point here too I think one of the one of the other things even whether you can or can't the legislature has made it somewhat clear they don't really intend to ride to the rescue here because it's never totally off the table but they've indicated that at least for this year and for this problem this may have to be an NBA thing and they're not going to come in with any extra revenue. Well they say that Lizzi But this is a big deal and I'm trying to you know listen and the legislature is between a rock and a hard place and Governor Patrick has been very clear about the kind of cuts that are coming in the budget at the same time. I'm trying to think of another agency that touches as many people in the way that it does and it seems to me if those people are speaking back to their legislators somebody has to hear something at some point and maybe some other choices are made. Is that possible. You know I think we are certainly hopeful that that the legislature would kind of hear that call from from the people across the commonwealth I think you're right that people across the commonwealth are really making that call. You know we encourage people to send that message to their elected officials and decision makers. And

then you know we hope that that would continue to work with decision makers across the state to find a longer term solution but again it's not just the solution to this year's problem that the legislature there really needs to solve it's really the longer bigger transportation funding gap that's really a statewide problem. It's a that is certainly part of that but it's also it's a huge 20 billion dollar funding problem. The legislature needs to one of the things that our first callers and we'll hear from some more just in a minute are offering or alternatives or ways in which we can get around it I mean Lizzie that is where you have come into play in the past. You've been looking at alternative ways to think long term. What would you suggest at this moment. You know I mean I think that there are a lot of options that are still on the table that we should be exploring to to find long term sources of revenue. I think you know some example some of them have come out in the past you know we heard a lot of talk about the gas tax we've you know a lot of states are starting to look at a vehicle miles traveled program

which is essentially a pay as you drive program. And I think that now is really the time to be looking at all of those options. Those are just two examples but there are many. Lida you have met psuedo do you head of the program director for the tea writers union. Have any alternatives you would like to suggest at this moment I would just continue what was he saying I met in front of me I look at four pages of different alternatives many of which are at the state level somebody going to the local level and I think you know some of the conversation I heard. Jeremy Davis mentioned you know everyone used to pay their sort of fair share and one sort of interesting local level sort of solution is there are many many institutions that and I would look at like hospitals as an example maybe educational institutions that enormously benefit from using public transportation. And you know there are there's a precedent for those institutions paying more because they don't do that through property taxes right they're exempt as a nonprofit so

we're just trying to look at all these different alternatives and literally I'm looking at the four pages of these things many and have to be legislated and we're looking at how do we talk about expanding that conversation having the conversation and really talking about how it can't just fall on the backs of riders that there needs to be a broader long term solution I'm all for that. You're listening to eighty nine point seven WGBH an online at WGBH dot org I'm Kelly Crossley. We're talking about the in BTA in order to make necessary repairs and to pay off a multi million dollar deficit. The MBT is suggesting fare hikes and some service cuts. I'm joined by Jonathan Davis the acting general manager of the BTA Kal chany a reporter for Statehouse News. Lizzie Wyatt a staff attorney for a mass purge and lead Mets wait a program director for the tea writers union. You just heard him tonight will be the first of 20 public hearings but you can weigh in right now at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. Here's what Ryan on our Facebook page writes. I'd like to know what the

T Union and the GM are willing to give up while the writers are asked to fully fund this deficit get the last MBT AGM get an obscene severance package when he left. Have any of these institutional shortcomings short comings been addressed by the BTA before they asked me to take my money from my $20 a week grocery budget to pay more for my t pass. Jonathan Davis Well I can assure you that when I took the acting general manager's position I got no salary increase. But I think we also have taken a look at it. Changing some of the policies that we have as a relates to employee benefits and a transportation reform legislation the legislature thought it was best that all of our employees go into the state group insurance commission plan. They will be transitioned as the new collective bargaining agreements are ratified that will save approx 330 million dollars only in your base. When is that effective. We have

transferred some already some of our unions were still in a collective bargaining negotiation as well but we're expected that 100 percent of the employees will have transitioned by January 1st of 2013. Okay Linda from Brookline Go ahead please you're on the Kelly Crossley Show WGBH eighty nine point seven. Yeah hi thanks for taking my call. Citizens of Brookline are really concerned about France's most notably the elimination of two bathrooms in our community. But I'm also looking at the results of the central transportation planning staff. Estimate of the ridership change and that ranges anywhere from 34 million new car trips to 64 million and that's a significant change in our quality of life the environment and the atmosphere that we all have to live in not to mention that we people will not be able to get around and get to where they need. I wanted to

mention specifically that the senior citizen and disabled persons task is scheduled to be increased by a hundred and seventy five percent. When we talk about the 43 percent fare increase that's not that's an average and that's a and I wonder why we would put such a burden on the people who can absolutely least afford it. And if I say one more thing dative Massachusetts is really in the forefront of dealing with environmental issues and planning for the future in terms of our greenhouse gas reduction we have some standing legislation I'm very involved in that. The global warming solutions that in the green community is that an obviously keeping a funk. Transit system into the future and improving it and helping more people shift from automobiles to transit is absolutely what we need to be doing. So I think that I agree with everyone here.

The legislature needs to get their focus on the issue and deal with it in a better way than reducing ridership. Linda will you be attending the public hearings and will you be calling your legislator to talk about this. Yeah actually I've been asked to try to organize a petition drive here in Brookline and we are aware of the need to go to our legislators. We have a great representative Frank. My dick and Cynthia claim and I'm sure they'll be hearing from us. All right thank you very much. Thank you. What lines specifically are on the table to be cut or is that still to be negotiated Jonathan Davis. Well the only reduction in service as a relates to subway would be the evil line there would not be any weekend service on the line nor would there be any weekend service on the matter paean high speed light. The orange blue red in green except for the line would continue with the same service levels that it currently has. There would not be any water transportation at all. That is proposed to

be eliminated. There'd be no commuter rail service on weekends are at after 10 o'clock at night. And then there is a myriad of bus routes that would either be eliminated or reduced and that's in the reports that's available to our customers online at our website Debbie Debbie Debbie dot MBT dot com. OK Robert from Ipswich you're on the Kelly Crossley Show. Eighty nine point seven WGBH Go ahead Robert. Maybe I'll get back on right. Betty from Needham. You're on the Cali Crossley Show WGBH eighty nine point seven. Good afternoon. Yes I'm just calling because they were listed several cups of root curium Needham big 59 that comes out here. I'm visually impaired and I use that bus I just moved here so that I would have transportation. Now they want to cut it maybe on Sunday or even make some cuts in the schedule. So I would really appreciate if they did and kept at

the hospital out here you had I be sure for their patients to get there like myself. Plus also the employees for the Beth Israel Needham branch of the hospital so that I need transportation out here and I'm getting up in age where I can't keep trying to fight for transportation. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Betty. Jonathan Davis what about that hundred and 70 percent increase in the fees the proposed fare hikes for seniors and the disabled and Betty makes a very strong case I mean that's the reason why a lot of elderly people move into town so they can make and have access to public transportation. The proposals that we have out right now for comment would take senior citizens students and the persons with disabilities and make their fear equal to what's allowed under the law. And that is 50 percent of the base fare currently is about 33 percent of the base

fare under current statue we're allowed to charge up to 50 percent and that's out there for review proposal. A comment from our custom is in all of our customers comments will be considered before we. Have a recommendation to our board so certainly that caller's comments as a relates to the increase associated with seniors will be considered before any final proposal is given to our board. OK so just to highlight that you're allowed to charge that much that doesn't mean that it will end up being that much and customers can weigh in with their displeasure at these public hearings. Which leads me to this question. Do you think people are going to take the Sears legislators for example. I know that other of other members of the board the MBT board have been asked to show up at these hearings but is this pro forma or is this for real. No I think I think it is for real I think when it comes to the legislature coming up with some alternative solution I think one of the challenges you get rightly or wrongly is that the MTA is sort of viewed as a

Boston problem. And as of as a lot of regionalism within the legislature were they think that there are people out west safe you know come and rescue the T Well what about the roads for people out here. What about the tolls for people in metro west area. So I think one of the challenges to getting consensus among the legislature and the governor is dealing with some regional tensions regional pull from different different subsets of the ledger commuter lines or you know under the knife as well. John may know the answer this is I think the tea service was about one hundred seventy community. Hundred seventy five hundred seventy five. So it's more than a bust and it certainly is I think it's made me more of a almost a psychological thing that the tea is used at the subway and it is primarily Boston it depends on it on the subway line and then obviously the commuter rail does stretch out due to a number of other communities but in terms of consensus I think you know that you're maybe looking at more of a package that helps the roads it helps the tea that comes up with that asks those riders across the transit system

transportation system to sacrifice a little bit altogether. I asked the question John to David's and we were just because I read that it was suggested that the board members go to at least four of the 20 meetings. I'm sorry. Why can't they go to all of them. I mean I just you know this is very serious fare hike. The chairman of the board incursion board members to attend as many as they can. All right well you know in terms of taking it seriously I think a lot of people would be looking to see you know if they're going to be people there who can make decisions on their behalf having heard their comments. So do you want to say something before we go. Oh sure. Just just lastly I think you know I talked to John Jenkins he's the chair of M. and he's the one who said you know basically people are going to feel some pain after this process is over the question is just how much pain he said he's going to get as many board meetings as he can and he's going to again encourage the board members to attend more than four if they can get riced for it. I'm Kelly Crossley we're talking about the MBT this hour looking at proposals to increase fares and cut

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question and you'll hear unexpected questions and unexpected answers. This afternoon at 2:00 you're an eighty nine point seventy. WGBH. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just joining us we're talking about the way in order to make necessary repairs in an effort to pay off a multimillion dollar deficit the NPT is suggesting fare hikes and some service cuts. I'm joined by Jonathan Davis the acting general manager of the BTA. Kyle Chaney reporter for the Statehouse News Lizzy Wyatt a staff attorney for mass per and the Mets wait a program director for the tea writers union. You can get in on this conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and you can write to our Facebook page or send us a tweet. Robert from Wendell few on the callee Crossley Show an eighty nine point seven WGBH. Hi how are you. Hi I have a quick question.

I mean you still live in London used to catch the tube a lot and what I notice over there is that they have a peak vs. peak fare structure in which you order because the train that day between 6:00 a.m. in the morning to 8:00 a.m. in the morning basically. Who would pay a higher fee or any time after that until 4 p.m. in the evening. Here's a redo and then from four to seven the pairs would the young players would increase. So if you ever look into having an off peak vs. peak there are structures in the LED Johnson Davis general acting general manager of the MBT answer that the short answer is yes. That's certainly something that we might consider before a final proposal comes out but in the current proposal we do have a program that for commuter rail off peak we would charge 75 percent of the regular fare to see that. If that encourage people

to take the system we have capacity available to carry them on the system. That's a fair start I think in looking at peak versus Off-Peak but I also think that we would consider looking at some form for the other modes of transit before a final proposal comes out. But we do need to look at capacity availability as we consider that off peak type of Thea. Is that would that be enough if you were to go that way to you know maybe even out some of the hikes. So for so for example maybe if you had an off peak and peak maybe you can go back to wherever the seniors rate was or you could change some things around is that it would that be enough I guess is what I'm saying. To offset. I don't know. Without going through the analysis and that's something I would actually ask the transportation planning staff to take a look at Forest. I think what we would take a look at is the whole package of potential

changes to our proposal and determine what level of revenue that would bring to the authority. I don't expect that either proposal would be adopted as is. We look forward to the discussion with our customers and we look forward to their thoughts and ideas some of which we've already heard today. Robert from Cambridge Go ahead please you're on the callee Crossley Show. Eighty nine point seven WGBH. Thank you. Wondering how much of the MBT financial problems are due to the interest rate swaps which were entered into with large banks. Well Jonathan Davis. I guess that's me because I'm also in my role I'm not only the I think General Manager but I'm the chief financial officer. The short answer is none. What we have done as a relates to any type of derivative product was to manage risk. And that's how we've used them and done all of the financial problems that with face with having anything to do as a relates to that program.

Not that I don't trust you but Kyle Chaney is here state house reporter state house reporter how do you read that. Well I would never take a general managers word on that but but you know the point there is I mean he is saddled with a lot of debt related to the Big Dig which has its own you know long and storied history and I think when the team which is primarily the responsibility of the Mass Turnpike Authority before that was abolished. There were some financial issues on that side that had to do with interest rate swaps. So you know I guess in some sense the tea is connected to the Big Dig and which has its own history with derivatives in that so no I appreciate Kyle mentioning that. What I was talking about was any type of derivative products. Our interest rate swap that we've used had any effect to the financial difficulties we have today and the answer to that is no. However we do have five point two billion dollars worth of debt. Some of that did come from the transit commitments associated with building the central lottery and I know there has been discussion among a lot of parties

as one of the not the MBT A is the appropriate authority our appropriate agency to pay for the costs associated with those transit commitments. So I do recognize that I do recognize that we carry a lot of a lot of debt. Rosa from Newton Go ahead please you're on the Calla Crossley Show eighty nine point seven hire. Thank you. I'm calling because I'm a single mom I live in a new and low income I go every every workday I go to work and I pick the 5 5 6. I love stars like you see. They're looking at possibly eliminating all bluster. That right now if you could. Well I wouldn't it would necessarily be all buses but Newton would be affected. I mean. Are you looking at cutting the 5 5 4 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 6 which I take every day.

Yeah no it depends on obviously which proposal you're looking at but all of us 59 which I don't my mom you know. You certainly have an ally as a rule in bets waiter. He made some good points earlier in the fact that this would reduce the amount of right is somewhere between 34 in 64 billion annual trips. We understand that this affects people this and we would affect people to the extent that maybe public transit is their only transportation option. However we are also faced with the stark reality of needing to close 161 million dollar deficit in providing a balanced budget. What do you say to Rose in this circumstance. I mean you have been down this road before in trying to help protect some of the writers who are most at risk and in the past at least there

seemed to be some other ways around this. This is just seems very arch right now and I'm just it's do you see a little light somewhere. Yeah I mean it I think it seems Harshit because it is some of the proposals on the table are harsh and I would really encourage Roseanne in fact all of the callers to come to the public meetings that that the tea is going to be holding I. You asked earlier if they're pro forma and I don't think that they are I think that people really are listening and I think that stories like this are really critical to the board actually making a final a final decision. And I think you know as a general manager said the proposals that are on the table are not likely to be adopted in their current form as proposed and it's stories like these that really impact the final outcome. So I think you know making your voice heard telling your legislator that story telling the story is the kind of thing that that actually makes the tea had to come up with a proposal that that doesn't hurt as much. I wanted you also to weigh in on you. You wrote a piece for wicked local about it. This is due to proposed

fare hikes and you noted that the Boston metro area is eighth in the nation for the worst traffic congestion. Yeah yeah the average person in the Boston metro area spends about 40 hours a year sitting in traffic which is you know entire entire work week just sitting in traffic. But Lizzie makes a good point and one of the other callers also made the same point that even people who don't use the train the transit system should be interested in this because it will lead to more congestion and slightly less equality. Kelly from san would you on the Kelly Crossley Show. Eighty nine point seven. WGBH Go ahead please. Oh I don't hear anybody speak. The point that we have a deficit is riders but gain the benefit. In writing the AP and I feel that they ought to be paying more.

It's too bad that we didn't charge more. A while ago so we don't have such a huge deficit and now that we're realizing that we've got to raise the rate to close the gap it's got everybody riled up. It's unfortunate for those that are going to have a tough time making payments. This is probably a good number of riders to distract them too much. You know maybe perhaps not have that coffee every day whatever it takes. Calley do you use the tea you know infrequently but I do find it not but very infrequently. I'm not in the area I live in Sandwich So I'm I'm without that benefit of having public pensions transportation if I have to pay to have my kids bus to school. I just I just know that just you know for one example is just take one line if it goes up to 240 and you ride it every day and you're just going straight in and straight out that's $5 that's $25 for the week. That's 100 extra dollars for the month. Now if you are coming into town to work and you're right on the edge

that's a huge that's a huge hike for you. So for people who are coming into work and they can't come to work they're sort of defeated on both ends. Wouldn't you say. Oh I think I would change and I think the same thing because I have increased costs for fuel and the church for operating my vehicle and then I also have incurred now I need to pay for boxing to have my kids brought to school which it used to be covered some one way or another often lived in but now it's like a two hundred forty dollars per quarter fee that I have to pay to have that student tossed back and forth. So Kelly your point is you know if it's increased you know it's increase in everybody and so be it. OK and perhaps confining them for a need can find out from their area if they are going to benefit a right

thing. Paint. Why did you want to respond to. Go to hell yeah sure you know and I think this is this is one of the prevailing messages that I think we hear and I think what's important to acknowledge is that this the service is subsidized it's a public service in every city every system as dead but but with unique about the T is sort of the sort of big big portion of the debt which is really put an unfair burden on the NPT and its riders so that the state legislature around 2000 made a very clear decision to say you know what we're going to transfer these transit projects that we made a commitment to on of the backs of ride. And I think that's the part that has put us in a big downward spiral where you know almost three billion dollars worth of projects are dropped on the TV and it's writers. And you know there's reports that that reference this born broke report so I would just argue that you know in addition to it being such a public good for the very reasons that have been mentioned around the environment our economy and sort of the need for just every day writers particularly those who are dependent on it. We have this other angle that says you know

listen Boston is different. We got a huge chunk of money dropped on the TV and it's writers. That was an unfair amount of debt that we're paying for it to this very day. Curious Lizzie and Kyle if some have suggested that I'm not going to ask Jonathan this that this was moved by the board to put out these very harsh hikes and cuts to pressure the legislature to think about a gas tax hike. Well if I could first just to say I mean I think there's that that sentiment has been out there. I think you've been flatly denied by transportation officials they say they said look we have a math problem to solve essentially as it is more than a math problem but there is a budget crisis to solve and this is what these are levers to pull. But you know that's it we have a thing about it is the governor propose a gas tax hike a couple of years ago I know wasn't too popular you know he got home for it we had a rival in the legislature politically unpalatable and he said as much since then that he has no intention of re proposing that because he

doesn't think it's going to go anywhere. Yeah I mean I would really just echo it what Kyle said I think those those charges are unfair. I I don't think that this was a ploy on the part of the tea to try to get the legislature back I think it indicates that the legislature need to be working together to find a long term solution but I don't think that that's a fair statement. Johnson Davis will we see you at some of the public hearings. Absolutely. I'm going to be. All right well. It's really up to I guess just a large discussion but everybody to see what is though the least hurt I guess is going to what is going to come down to. You know I think one of the one of the biggest challenges and one of the hardest things to argue is you know when you see a fare hike you know you want to say we get more service for a lot for our money but you're coupling it with a service cut and I think that becomes hard intellectual argument to make. We want to hear from our customers and all suggestions will be considered.

OK we've been talking about the NBPA looking at the proposals to increase fares and cut service. I've been joined by Jonathan Davis the acting general manager of the BTA. Kyle Chaney a reporter for the Statehouse News Lizzy Wyatt a staff attorney from Asperger and leave Mets wait a program director for the tea writers union. Tonight will be the first of 20 plus weekly public hearings. They'll take place in Newton and Webster. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley follow us on Twitter. Become a fan of the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook. This is the Calla Crossley Show a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.