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I'm Cally Crossley This is the Cali Crossley Show. Comedian Barrett today Thurston was raised by a black activists mother in the DC projects he attended a lily white private school got a philosophy degree at Harvard and co-founded a politics website before ending up at the satirical news website The Onion. Perhaps most importantly along the way there are today Thurston accrued over 32 years of experience of being black. These years of hard won wisdom inspired him to write a new book. It's both a childhood remembrance and a tongue in cheek guide book on. How to Be Black tackles tricky conundrums from what it means to be someone's black friend and how to be the next black president to the right way to celebrate Black History Month. Thurston minds his own history for a fresh look at identity race and politics. And he's here to talk about what it means to be authentically African-American. Up next the blacks were tese of comedian there today. Thurston first the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying the Dow has had the

13000 mark for the first time since May of 2008 a psychological milestone in a market that's been trying to regain its foothold since the financial crisis. One big factor behind the rally is Greece. It has finally secured a second multibillion dollar bailout from other European nations and the International Monetary Fund. But as Joanna case's reports from Athens the deal means more economically painful years for average Greeks. The money comes in exchange for tough new austerity measures including pension cuts and a reduction to the minimum wage. European Union leaders will also monitor Greek spending more closely. The deal also paves the way for a bond swap that would drastically reduce Greek debt. Private creditors are being asked to forgive about one hundred forty two billion dollars in devalued Greek government bonds they hold. The deals give the country a reprieve for now but Greeks still face an ailing economy which austerity measures have dragged into a fifth year of recession. For NPR News I'm Joanna GEKAS in Athens.

During a White House event today Mr. Obama said the U.S. economy may be getting better but the work is far from over. We still have some struggles out there. You know we're coming out of the worst economic crisis in our lifetimes. We've got a long way to go before every single person who's looking for a job can find a job. But where we stand now looks a lot different than where we stood a few years ago. However congressional Republicans argue that President Obama has made government bigger and thereby slow down the economy's recovery including job creation. The Red Cross is appealing to all sides in the Syrian crisis to cease fire for two hours so that humanitarian teams can deliver emergency supplies to the wounded each day however. So far Syrian troops are not backing off. Members of the opposition are reporting heavy shelling in the city of Holmes however this audio from amateur video could not be independently verified. President Obama will deliver remarks at the groundbreaking for the National Museum of African-American

History and Culture tomorrow. NPR's Allison Keyes tells us the museum is meant to be a place of reflection and hope. Work is already underway at the site of the new museum which will sit on five acres between the Washington Monument to the National Museum of American history. The museum's been collecting items since 2005 including Chuck Berry's Cadillac a shawl and hymn book that belongs to Harriet Tubman and a World War Two biplane that was used by the Tuskegee airman. The man who restored it Air Force Captain Matt Kwai decided to give it to the museum to help people learn about the airman was such a shining example of. Putting the service of their country before them so the museum is set to open in 2015. Allison Keyes NPR News Washington. The Dow up thirty nine to twelve thousand one hundred eighty eight. This is NPR. Good afternoon from the WGBH radio newsroom in Boston I'm Christina Quinn with the local stories we're following. Authorities say an East Hampton woman who was found dead in an apartment over the

weekend was the victim of foul play but they are stopping short of calling her death a homicide. The woman was found dead early yesterday morning. Her name has not been released. A retired Massachusetts judge is defending her decision to order a mentally ill woman to have an abortion and be sterilized against her wishes. Christina harms is also criticizing Boston University for withdrawing a job offer after her ruling sparked controversy and was overturned by the state appeals court harmes who retired last month defended her ruling in a letter she sent Monday to other Massachusetts family court judges saying she believe the schizo running woman who would would have chosen to have an abortion if she had been mentally competent harm says B you withdrew a job offer soon after her ruling became public. In Rhode Island just forty six couples received civil union licenses in the six months after the state enacted a law allowing them Rhode Island's chapter of the ACLU compiled the number and calls it embarrassingly small. The group says gays and lesbians shunned the statute in part because of a broad exemption in it that allows religious organizations to refuse to

recognize the relationships the civil unions law was approved last year after the General Assembly dropped an effort to pass gay marriage. The mild winter across the northeast is injecting extra uncertainty into maple syrup season. Below freezing nights followed by warm days are necessary to start the sap flowing. Those conditions have already arrived in some areas prompting some producers to start tapping their trees. Weeks earlier than usual. Support for NPR comes from Carnegie Corporation of New York a foundation created to do what Andrew Carnegie called real and permanent good celebrating 100 years of philanthropy. The weather forecast for this afternoon mostly sunny with highs in the mid 40s and tonight some showers are in the forecast with a near steady temperature in the lower 40s. Right now it's 42 degrees in Boston 43 in Worcester and 41 in Providence. Good afternoon I'm Kelly Crossley That's James Brown in his 1968 hit Say it Loud

I'm Black and I'm proud. It's a perfect intro into our conversation today about being black. Today we're talking with the Onion's Barrett today Thurston. He's a writer a stand up comedian and director of digital for the satirical news site. His new book part memoir and part Funny how to guide book is called How to Be Black. He joins us now from the Radio Foundation studios in New York to talk about it. Barry today Thurston welcome. Good afternoon Kelly I'm black and I'm proud. Thanks for having me. You can join the conversation too have you ever been in a situation where you're the only minority when you've had to represent everyone in your group. Barrett today talks about that. Are you feeling the whole post racial thing. Call in at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. That's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. You can also comment on our Facebook page Facebook dot com slash Cally Crossley Show or tweet us at Kelly Crossley. So Barry today this is the question we have to ask all people with expertise

and since you have black expertise is black. Why did you decide to write this book. Well first of all I want to offer a quick and mild but important correction to the earlier intro. You said that I had been raised in the projects I was in fact raised across the street from the projects. OK so I was I was very close to project life but I was not technically a resident of the project. All right thank you know that's an important detail. So I wrote this book because publishing is an obvious way to become a millionaire. I've seen it work for everybody. And I thought this is just the best way to make it big in America. And I wrote it because it seemed like a good time because opportunity presented itself. And I my publisher was actually quite excited and because we're in this era where you know my own personal story and the place that this country in particular is and probably the world more generally seems open to an update on this conversation of race and on what it means to be black and by that I mean I'm the son and many of

my generation are the children of the civil rights movement. We are all collectively living in something called the Obama era we have our first biracial black president and that's a very exciting into mulcher was time for everyone to go through together. And so it's time to maybe reassess how we talk about what the image of Blackness is and what it can and should and will be. And you put all of that in in a comedic context so that yeah whatever you're talking about people can hear you is that why. Well I've been doing comedy for 10 years now. I actually started doing comedy in Boston right at the Harvard Square at the comedy studio. And so that was my most frequent club also at the Emerald Isle down in Dorchester a lot of. I performed all over New England and Boston is just a great foundation for a lot of this comedy you know can get people's attention. And I get books to keep and pay that attention away is that you know a straight up sociological treatise with tables and tables of numbers

just isn't as exciting. So it's my particular way of living in the world mostly and it seemed like a good way to deal with something as awkward as black ism. Well we have a little clip of some of your stand up comedy and I thought. Folks should hear that as we say here is a parent today talking about catching a cab in New York. I was in a cab recently I live in Brooklyn. Sometimes I have to come over here and I was in this cabin where I live you have a choice of bridge in Brooklyn versus that happens and I don't want to get stuck on one of the bridges I'm going to get my phone I checked Google Maps the traffic data and I told my driver please take the Brooklyn Bridge and he proceeded to do that. But he had some words for me and you need to understand my cab driver was Asian and that's important because I'm races and. He turned to have me said to me you're just like the white guys you just like to walk as he was a couple that just like.

Why guy and I was so furious that I wanted to be extra black you know like undermine his idea of me and want to stab him with fried chicken wing but there are so few pocks spoken word style or only of waterborne who grants totally those things I was going to I'm going to have my cereal with they I was playing low light. So I decided. To live up to his expectations play an extra wife and I offered him a very complicated financial product you know so what more you know was the was I own his house and his children's knowledge what was or somebody would want to have right. So that's my guest today Thurston in his stand up comedian role as we could hear a lot of your material is similar to what you've written about in your book you're exploring race and and people's interaction with it and stereotypes.

Yeah yeah I mean in that story you know for the listeners that actually did happen you know a lot of. Comedy is embellishment I didn't you know take his children's college fund I took it home no I took it home just to prove the point. And I think he won't be making those racial assumptions about black passengers any more I had a similar almost similar exact tale when I met a woman at a bar and she found out that I worked at the union that I graduate from Harvard and she's like oh my god you're the whitest black guy I've ever met. So here we go again like did you not get the memo from the cab driver who is oh my God as I was in the news here like black people can do a lot of stuff and other people can do a lot of the world is open in more ways and I think we've had such a narrow projection of what is possible for black people but also for all people we have this external idea of what our identity is. And it's very different from what we know internally ourselves to be. And so I wanted to tell a lot of personal stories and use satire to explore that. So you say in your book that this is about the ideas of blackness and

how they differ from the popular ideas promoted in mainstream media and often in the black community itself. So what are those ideas that are generally promoted in mainstream media and often in the black. Oh yes you know. You know you know it's the standard archetypes you've got like the thug and the athlete and the sassy black woman and the president of the United States it's just it's ridiculous the way people try to narrow what our opportunities are. And I think what really has happened is you. We have not quite updated. You know that range the fact that my cab driver can be surprised that I'm using Google Maps on my phone to try to save both of us time and me money should not be surprising the level of wireless internet use by black people is actually well above average than the white in fact I was being extra black in that moment. Based on the data alone. But he's got an outdated idea that old nerdy techie geek things that's got to be kind of white. And so part of the job of this book is to try to update some of those

expectations or at a minimum remove some of them. I want to have there are so many funny things in your book and it is very funny that we must mention this very early on in our conversation is that you have a guide to how to celebrate Black History Month. And I know that your new book came out the stream of people you know once a year people try to buy you know some black thing during February. And I kind of wanted to make this an easy decision for them. So if there's going to be something you could do I want to kind of give you a shopping list menu to choose from. Of ways to indulge your black awareness. Why did you read a couple of these like number eight. In acquiring a new black friend I like that. That's a way to ensure number 8. Acquire a new black friend in Zell and I are busy man I want a first name basis by the way with the within though we can't be the black friends for all of non-black America. So would it would behoove those of you who are not black to get your own. If you find

yourself in the unfortunate position of being black friendless you can either go to the nearest black church and strike up a conversation or just fire up Facebook search for black people and start clicking add friend on the names in the resulting list. Technology is amazing and quite a time saver. And number three number three I like this this is taking requests. If you like a deejay with us. Of Records. Number three this is actually very important as well as high on the list. Avoid being explicitly racist. This one can be a struggle for many. Racism is everywhere and it comes naturally. But it's considered to be extra offensive if you are explicitly racist toward black people during Black History Month. If nothing else it shows a lack of discipline. If you're serious about hating black people prove it by delaying that hate for a few weeks. Racism is exhausting and you could use a break. Take one on March 1st you'll return to peak form. Fired up and

ready to marginalize. Those are just two of the ways that my guests bear today Thurston from his book How to Be Black. Suggest you celebrate Black History Month and I must say they are unique. I've not heard that before so you're blacks pretty decent showing what I wanted to offer something that people hadn't quite heard before want to be a little different. Use innovation. You know I'm part of the digital generation so let's get with them and I just encourage people to go at a minimum. Follow Barack Obama on Twitter. It's the least you can do it costs nothing you get black history every moment a knowledge of 40 characters or less because whatever he does is very black and very historic. There today let's talk about you because now hearing all of your ideas many of your ideas. You know it's we should explain where all this came from because you are as you just mentioned a digital native. Really. And it was you were inside of a computer. I didn't mean that. And you grew up across the street from the projects in D.C. So let's talk about some of your early years and how it shaped

you and shaped your ideas about thinking about blackness. So I grew up in Washington D.C. our nation's this functional Capitol it's always been that way people think D.C. is broken it's been broken. It's still not technically a city state it's kind of this weird limbo governing wise so I grew up in the Columbia Heights neighborhood. I was raised by my mother and I have an older sister who now lives in Michigan and is doing wonderful things out there. And so we grew up in what was a predominantly black and Latino neighborhood. And I saw that neighborhood transition. Sadly into disrepair and ugliness and crime due to drugs due to the crack epidemic due to all the missed opportunities of that era and so I had a kind of a front row actual front row seat out of our window into how a neighborhood deteriorates and my mother's efforts to salvage me and our family and opportunities through all of that was a major influence on me being a part of that and witnessing that

devolution of a piece of the society that I knew. At the same time my mom was this very you know powerful figure and brought her own history and politics into our house and she was very much one of those 60s protesting hippie black people like she gave me a Nigerian name though we're not actually Nigerian. She was in the streets protesting constantly especially during my sister's early childhood but even into mine and she involved me in a lot of Afro centric education programs designed to save young black man and black girls from this deteriorating environment. And one of the efforts she took to try to save me was to put me into private school. And that ended up going to the Sidwell Friends School where the Obama daughters are attending now went from seventh grade through 12th grade and then ended up attending and graduating from Harvard. So these are three rough pieces that have built my own foundation. A bit of the like typical urban single mother story that you hear a bit of the like the home boy makes good

kind of story when it was one of these great schools two of these great schools and then a middle story which you don't hear too much of what this sort of Afro centric foundation of education. And so that for me gave me a lot of perspective on America on blackness and on the the intertwining of those two in that dance we've been doing for a while. So because of the what you describe as the Rites of Passage Program that your mother enrolled you in on weekends and then the Sidwell Friends experience which you have just totally different differently coming out of that. How did you at that age now you know not now but then see yourself as black. How do you how would you have defined your blackness at that point. I was I was militant black as a kid. I was often frustrated and angry. Not all the time but I think you know one of the first books my mother ever gave me was black and white picture book called This is apartheid a pictorial

introduction. And so I don't remember much of the See Spot Run type books I probably had them but what I remember is learning what apartheid was around 8 years old. And that colors your perspective on the world around you as a young impressionable child. And then when you mix that in an environment like a Sidwell Friends School which is not quite hitting you with the same cues and educational inputs there can be some conflicts. So I one of the the papers that I wrote in my early years which kind of showed how the awkward marriage of these two worlds could produce an even more awkward child. I wrote a paper for seventh or eighth grade English class basically railing against something called the US propaganda machine and I just read Marcus Garvey is also hopped up on the Garveys thinking. And I was that I was using the newts grammar in language tools and word processors from the schools I had this very very. Ambitious speech that I had written in the form of an English paper addressing all black people talking about how all white people were trying to do this was and

that's us. And that's very stark when you add the hormones of a young man on top of all that and the sort of self-righteousness of youth with its own invincibility blag And so in the moment I just thought like I'm just the most righteous and correct kid out there and I got to teach the world. Black is beautiful. You can't hold us back. And he cocoa pebbles because that chocolate chocolate is black light. Going to do whatever I can for blackness as a mission. And it felt kind of like a mission at that. So you know I'm in these environments where you question where your blackness questioned did you run into your early tests. Authenticity. Yes so when you when you physically cross worlds you end up you know anyone who has ever left their neighborhood their state their country to go to another. There is an interpretation and a judgment on both sides of that experience you looking out people looking in at you and so having grown up in the neighborhood I've described going to the public school I attended then shifting and taking a

bus across town to go to Sidwell coming back home. People go oh you're going to go to school the like is home what's going on over there like there was a there's always this little undermining of. So you still one of us are you are you one of them now. And it didn't happen too harshly I think with the people I directly knew. But it comes up and with the other community say oh you're from you're from that part of D.C. Well I don't I don't know anybody who lives over there ARE YOU. You went to this you went to that and one of the most comical versions that that emerged was actually a website that taps into the absurdity and the humor of all this was called Black people love us. And it was created by Jonah Peretti and his sister who were you know behind BuzzFeed and early have poet they this idea that oh I must know where to get we must know where the cool clubs are I must know what this is like. I don't I made. Salvation and like survivability of not knowing where to get you we'd like the way I'm going to go into that I'm trying to escape from that so there's some weird sort of judgements

and expectations from both populations who don't really know all of you at least especially at their early age when kids are just weird anyway. And that's why you have a book to explore these themes and we'll continue our conversation with writer and comedian Barrett today Thurston his new book is called How to Be Black. You can join in the conversation. Black people do you know how to be a black friend there today has advice. Everybody else have your birth brief friended or worked with a black person give us a call 8 7 7 3 0 what 80 died 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70. This is eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston Public Radio. This program is made possible thanks to you. And the museum of science you can come face to

face with more than 60 live exotic geckos at the new exhibit at the Museum of Science. Geckos tails to toe pads on exhibit through Sunday May 6th. Tickets at M.O.s dot org. And Simmons leadership conference on Thursday April 5th. Innovation and impact a day of leadership motivation and networking for women seeking to compete in today's changing business climate information at Simmons dot edu slash leadership. And the Boston Symphony Orchestra February 23rd through 25th conductor CT Mazower soprano Christine Brewer and other guest vocalist and the Tanglewood Festival Chorus perform Beethoven's Missa solemnised B.S. o dot org. It's my job I'm at it. It took a long time for Katherine Russell to go from backup singer to solo performer but we're lucky she finally did it on the next FRESH AIR. Russell performed songs from the new album join us.

This afternoon at 2:00 9.7 WGBH. The WGBH member card. OK Does your member card is good for discounts on our chosen religious haters they drowned ecological education festivals getaways home insulation jazz joints picks for the kids luggage music both new and old pumpkin pancakes while you read strolling toys unused volumes of Virginia Woolf and X-Men yogurts and Zipcar. Learn how much it pays to support public broadcasting online at WGBH dot org. Explore the monthly member's magazine from WGBH is now available as a free download on your Apple II pad with up to the minute TV listings exclusive content and much much more downloaded today on iTunes. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. If you're just tuning in we're talking about the onions there today Thurston's new book How to Be Black. It's part

memoir part comedic guide book. We want to hear from you. Have you ever had your racial authenticity question ever been accused of being not black enough or being too black. We're at 8 7 7 3 a 170 that's 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 a very Today we're going to take a caller right now. Do it. Kelly from Rhode Island Go ahead please you're on eighty nine point seven the Calla Crossley Show. Hi I just wanted to say I love their today's comments. I personally like using humor in my life every day because I'm one of two African-American coworkers in my entire workplace and there are very few of us in the town where I live. And so sometimes that like you think could be a little mean but I think using humor with people just to. Just to make them squirm a little bit see how they react in certain situations. Well there today you have a chapter called How to be a black employee perhaps you'd like to share some advice with Kelly. Well she's on the line. Kelly you are you are already ahead of the game I have to say I'm very proud of what you're

doing. I think you're doing blackness right. You're on mission. So just keep up the good work I commend you. As I said there's there's so much that goes into you know being one of the few minorities in a workplace because you have some of the expectations of friendship without the reality of it. You know these are coworkers much more than friends but you have these awkward personal interactions people assume you have opinions on things you don't know anything about like the LPN food you have any recommendations like why. Why would I know that. Why are you asking where the clubs I don't know I don't I'm not in a club or I don't even dance I would like to dance. The company holiday party like to eat the watermelon not all the time. If you don't find interactions and I like that you you know not just this guy but you have fun back with him and that can be one of the best sort of defeats one is a mild advantage of being in the situation of you always having this weight added to you to kind of spin it back but not in an aggressive way just sort of a fun and playful way and just can defuse some of the awkwardness these are definitely awkward situations and if you look at just the way people live in general we

live an American to love pretty segregated environment. You know in terms of our zip codes and who we actually go home to and who our neighbors are and the workplace is one of those spots that things get mixed up a little bit and that's probably for the best but it's not without some of its awkward moments so I really do thank you your you never have to you could skip that chapter if you want to but I think you're right. Kelly thank you so much for your call. We have a tweet from someone buried today I love this quote. I cannot express how giddy smart black men make me and three exclamation points. That would be a regulation that is excessive excitement that they get giddy today on the air I like it. Like my my goal is actually to make people giddy So I'm winning. So yes you are very much cool. Now you're smart. Just because you have that as part of who you are but you also had some of that intellectual shaped Herbert right here in Boston.

And I note that in your book you say that Harvard was really quite freeing for you in a way that the other experience of being at Sidwell was it that you felt more open to being who whatever black person you felt you were there. Explain that. So if Harvard had been my first experience of kind of being the minority in this situation. Remember I came from DC I'm seeing black people everywhere I wake up I see black people going to bed I see black in the middle just blackness all around it abounds. And then you come to Boston and it's different. And I remember you know I didn't know much about Boston before I got here I hadn't lived here ever I visited once on my college visiting rounds and I had some bad had some negative information about the town before I got there about the segregation and how segregated the town actually is and that got the ball so I took the subway. I saw white people on the subways I go with these white people OK like I'm just not used to seeing so many white people in the parts of my life that I was walking around on the non-school daily basis and so

that the environment in which Harvard sits was very different externally but the actual educational environment was so much like Sidwell that I had dealt with a lot of those awkward moments of being the black in the classics. Asked to explain all of black history to everybody even though I'm 12 years old 13 years old and only know half of black history at that point and all of it now but at the time. I don't do half of every single detail of the black diasporic experience. So by the time I got to Harvard you know I had dealt with a lot of those transit transitionary in translation moment someone writes the N-word on a locker. Someone has some weird moment in the class on the sports field and I just it was like Sidwell was boot camp and Harvard was actual deployment. And then I remembered my training and I was less affected in a negative way by some of the more b.s. types of activities that can go on I think most importantly it's not that I was immune to them or somehow like better or like super

strong. It just I had my own sense of self was more firm. And because I had been through a lot of these trials before they didn't have the negative impact on me and the the impact that makes you question yourself and your place and doubt who you are and where you belong. That doubt I was less subject to that by the time I got to Harvard because of the time I had spent at Sidwell and also because of the household I grew up in I think that was a big part of it. OK. The DGA from Brooklyn New York your hometown. Go ahead please you're on the Kelly clearly and. Hello to both of you I actually. Which places. I'm now in bed. I grew up in Central Square Cambridge Massachusetts. So I wanted to call in because I'm a young white woman but I'm a black stepfather and growing up in Cambridge. The bridge was a very interesting experience because when we would go into Boston we would experience exactly what you're saying you know you get on the red line you go downtown and you get you know this incredible these looks

that you know you just kind of can't believe you know growing up in Central Square is much more integrated than Harvard or. But but recently I'm actually quite horrified and I'm I wanted to call it as a white woman because as a white woman I'm kind of you know I'm an undercover sister you know so I'm getting a lot of comments from white men especially since the Whitney Houston. Rest in peace. Since her funeral I'm hearing a lot of comments about you know well why are people spending so much time she's just washed out. You know I'm not I'm not saying a lot of really negative things and I get to be that person who they all say these things to. And of course being you know having that interesting perspective of being very much alive and in solidarity with the black community. But you know being white being Harvard educated as well and you know having that perspective it's really frustrating for me as I was just joking on Twitter with many of my friends that I was.

I want to talk show called post-racial my ass. OK. OK the fact where we can talk about the fact that a lot of these things still are so huge issues and so we can talk about Boston as you know a lot of this bigger issue being passed and prologue but I think in reality I'm I'm still seeing it. I work in fields corner and you know there is a huge huge difference. Yeah and so it is nice I have to be honest it's nice to be in Bed-Stuy. I got to be honest it is it is very comfortable. Can I just thank you so much for your call. Baird you did you have a response to that. Amazing first of all I want to thank the undercover sister. We will be taking up your your notes and your report just show up at the meeting on Thursday. Thank you and I don't think. Yeah yeah you know the location you know we don't want to get in. Just the same drop box that we always used. You know what. I think there's so much there's a lot to which he said the thing that stood out she's like I'm just happy to be in

Bed-Stuy and you know to think about what Bed-Stuy was and what it's become. To have someone you know say I'm really that Bed-Stuy represents this much more positive racial you know civic experience than anywhere else. You know in the north it's just kind of shocking probably the people who grew up in Bed-Stuy. So there's that. And this idea of you know that Boston's past isn't really done. It's certainly something that I keep hearing I moved out of Boston in 2007 and I was but I was just there last night I did a book event in Cambridge and had a lot of friends and folks come out and the city is still you know it's got such great potential. To tap into the young energy in the young migration that comes in every year. But there's a lot left to do in her specific instance of the comments and the kind of post-racial my ass reflects what I heard from the panel of what I called my my black panel on The Book of people I interviewed who are writers and artists and like oh yeah a

post-racial America is B.S. It's a unicorn said Cueto who's one of the comics and it was like a unicorn or leprechaun was a really nice idea but it's not real. So why do we keep you know ignoring the reality that there's a lot of work left to do. And so people like ADG who are in a more sensitive and open spot people kind of assume one thing about her and that's a freer with their speech around her. They might not say that in front of me but there they assume that she's one of them in mindset and slip up and she takes it to the meeting under there. You know one of the things that you're doing in this book overall over in an overarching way is to really sort of try to address the negativity that's always associated with being black. And I wanted to play a clip from Chris Rock because I thought that it sort of captured a lot of this of what's just in people's minds even if they don't know what it's in their minds. And what you're trying to say address comedically in your book so here is Chris Rock on how white people never want to be black.

They don't white men. Would change places with me and. That's how good it is to feel like. There's no one like. Busboy in here right now and I don't want to change. IMO rod is wiping out see where it takes me. How would you like this guy has to live it. When you back the limits this guy. So Burton did it be it's funny but you know it strikes right at the heart of what you're really speaking about all through your book. No it doesn't I think you know Chris he's obviously being hilarious there. Someone is going to argue but preacher Chris Rock you millionaire out happily you know get an extra leg and take your money. They're there you know he's standing that exceptional position. But what he's speaking to is some of the statistical reality that the outcomes for black people in large are far worse among so many different. Variables and measures a

life you know educationally if you want to talk about just sad realities look at the criminal justice system and the propensity to arrest or prosecute to extend sentencing the use of the death penalty like every step in that process is heavily heavily negative in far degree disproportionate to the population's representation for black people and not health care why there's so many things that we still have left to do and so again he could have gone out on stage with a pile of data and said all these depressing facts or you could state the truth differently and talk about a one legged white busboy who would want his life and one of those is more effective for certain audiences than another. Well what is effective is your book How to Be Black and we're going to continue to talk about it particularly about your telling people how to be a black friend. I think that's really quite interesting. We're talking with the ideas Barrett today Thurston about his new book How to Be Black. And we want to hear from

you. Post racial. Not so much for you. Did anything change when President Obama was elected and what's your question for Barrett today thirsted. Give us a call at 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 and you can send us a tweet or write to our Facebook page. You're listening to WGBH Boston Public Radio. The. WGBH programs exist because of you. And the Harvard innovation lab a university wide center for innovation where entrepreneurs from Harvard the Austin Community Boston and beyond engage in teaching and learning about entrepreneurship. Information at I lab at Harvard dot edu. And Thomas Mosher cabinetmakers handcrafted in Maine by men and women dedicated to crafting furniture that celebrates Woods natural beauty. You can visit their backpay showroom at 19 Arlington Street

or at Thomas Mosher dot com. And bridge bank providing financial solutions to entrepreneurs and businesses for over a decade with East Coast offices in Boston and Reston Virginia. You can find more information on the web at bridge bank dot com. I'm Lisa Mullins PR as the world is news to the world. For more than three days I guarantee you that all of us will we will be will be dead. The world is ideas. What's going to do with that. The least I could do is to compose and causers to support the people of Syria join us and hear the world. Coming up at 3 o'clock here at eighty nine point seven WGBH. Celebrate St. Patty's Day with Brian O'Donovan a St. Patrick's Day an extraordinary show featuring some of the world's finest Celtic singers dancers and musicians be there for opening night. March 17 at the site here in theater in New Bedford

or Saturday March 24th at Sanders the ATR in favor. Join the WGBH Celtic club. If one hundred twenty dollars and two of the best seats in the house will be set aside. Details at WGBH dot org slash Celtic great question has a great question and that's a great question. It's a great question. Rick great question on fresh air you'll hear unexpected questions and unexpected answers this afternoon to toot your own eighty nine point seven WGBH. Welcome back to the Calla Crossley Show. We're talking with writer writer and comedian today Thurston. He's director of digital for the satirical news site The Onion and his new book is called How to Be Black. You can find a link to his book at our site WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley. We want to hear from you this hour have you ever been in a situation where you felt like you had to turn down your blackness or brownness in order to fit in. What does it take to be black were it 8 7 7 3 0 1 89 70 8 7 7 3

0 1 89 70. You can comment at our Facebook page Facebook dot com slash Calla Crossley or on Twitter at Cal across Lee. So today you have a very important chapter about how to be a black friend and you call this really undercover work. Yeah I mean I think the black friend has performed some pretty heroic actions for this country. You know we like to celebrate our political office holders who do good deeds we like to celebrate the servicemen and women who put themselves in harm's way at home especially abroad and and the black friend I think is right up there with those people because essentially you know what they do is cross lines they cross cultural lines sometimes enemy lines depending on how tense the situation is they gather information they they share insight. It's a two way street they like the red telephone in the cold war that helped prevent nuclear holocaust from happening. And so by a kind word by a subtle suggestion by a trusted

phrase to say no don't do that don't don't touch that black person's hair. No no no no. Just because you heard of a hip hop album doesn't mean you can say the N word. Those those words coming from trusted black friends outwardly to other communities helped lower the tension and really help keep peace in our great land so they deserve a moment of silence they deserve a monument maybe a big black wall somewhere I think there's a lot we could do to recognize some of these sacrifices that people have made in a very unsung fashion. You mentioned before that you have a panel of black panel that you turn to when just to shore up your own blacks parties. One of the people that you talk to actually is white Christian Lander who's a writer and satirist and I had him on the show not long ago and he put together a test to see where you fall on the whiteness scale and I have to say that I scored high enough to threaten the taking away of my black card. So it was a little it's a little upsetting to me but I know that when Now

I'm doing better as I'm talking to you it's my my you can blacker. Yeah I feel it. But there's no test in your book I was ready to take a test and prove in fact I'm like you know I don't believe in teaching to the test Carol. All right all of the development of the students that all my students and I'm learning with you. OK. On a serious note about being the black friend let's talk about tokenism and there's a whole conversation that's been going on for ever about tokenism and whether people feel as though they are sellouts in some way by being the only in various spots. You certainly have been the ONLY in many situations and certainly I have and I love to get your take on it. So I being the ONLY is in a crime and it's a necessity for someone at some time you know. And so one's got to be first someone you know do we call Neil Armstrong a token moon lander. You know he was the first one he was the only one what was he thinking he's so disconnected from Earth.

Let's get to some degree it's ridiculous. I think more of where that label you know things a bit more is with this notion that not only have you gone to the moon but you kind of left Earth behind and you're no longer concerned with the future on the plight of others who maybe share your experience if not just your look. And so it's much more about not the access that you gain to any new institution or opportunity but rather you know are you involved in bringing others with you Do you not care. Are you actively trying to hold other people back like the Armstrongs like nobody else comes to the moon. This is mine and mine alone like that would be some hater type activity for the astronaut who was funded by the people of Earth. So I don't know why I got stuck on this moon thing but I'm sticking with it. It's a pretty apt metaphor and I just I don't know maybe as nuclear is everything about the Mona lot. That's I think that's more of the deeper challenges around tokenism isn't merely

the acceptance that OK oh how we are using this in some way are you not using it in ways that you could and that's a that's a different level of burden that people have to think about like am I responsible for all these people. What can I do to help what's too much what's not enough. Tricky tricky land to navigate but not as simple as just getting there. Well we have another caller Bruce from Mission Hill Go ahead please you're on the Kelly Crossley Show eighty nine point seven WGBH. KELLEY Oh are you sure. Thank you for have. We're going to show I want to ask your guest how do you calculate And I think you just made a comment toward the end. How do you calculate issues that for example using our president there are some class issues that or comments that are made toward him and people myself like it somewhat is racist but there are commentators tell him no that's not racist. And I also oftentimes wonder what it adds as a black person to we measure against racism because our kind of our hackles are up

at a higher order than others. And I'll take my answer offline thanks Chris. That's that's a great question Bruce and I know our racism radar is much more sensitive having been immersed in racism on one side for such an extended period of time. The thing about the reaction to President Obama and this is actually is connect back to Jack and Jill Politics is a political blog that I helped co-found in 0 6 with Cheryl Conti and it's gone on and grown and we have even more writers I'm very excited about what that has become but when we hit our big boost in traffic and some recognition in larger circles when we were just talking to ourselves and started coming off a lot of comments is it early in the 2008 Democratic campaign you know that primaries that when we started calling out the president former President Bill Clinton for some of his comments and other stewards and sort of surrogates on the Clinton side in the transition to the McCain campaign as well

when people you know are making we were sensitive to it because we kind of recognize it. And I think there's a risk sometimes of being overly sensitive but I think there should be some respect as well for the fact that we're kind of experts on this whole. Racism spotting game creeping they had it for awhile were vets we got years in the game and so we kind of know know it when we see it. And one of the things that Jack and Jill Politics have benefited from was people understanding that all their speaking they see what I see and there's a paranoia around the recognition that Bruce brought up because you don't want to be the person who just like that bus driver didn't stop for me. Is it because I'm black. You know that woman didn't give me a kiss at the end of the night. Is it because I'm black Friday that you want to just attribute everything to racism you're kind of like the negro that cried racism and no whatever with you in the future. So on the extreme there's always a risk but that sensitivity is born of a real experience. And it's like extra cost we pay. So whether we're right or not is less important to me

than the fact that we're always calculating what weighs like like a GP s in your current recalculating route recalculating about sick recalculating racism recalculate. Why did this happen why did they look at me this way. Did they say that about the president just because they hate his policies or was there some more subtle thing in this whole thing about him being Kenyan foreign Muslim socialist. They really believe those things. Or is that just a nother instance in the long line of trying to make him the other and bring up this sort of communist threat that has long been associated with black political activism. One of the question but that the mental tax is what concerns me more than whether it's actually racist or not. What I've appreciated is your ability in the places that you work to up end some of this kind of pointed commentary that maybe characterizes as races. Here's a sample from The Onion so that people understand what The Onion news site really does. And this is a video about how Barack Obama's perception as an elitist or how the people perceive him to be an elitist is actually a

step forward for African-Americans. Remember this is satire people. Now you say the media's depiction of Obama as an elitist represents a watershed moment for America. This in the past blacks were seen as ignorant or dangerous. Wright said today a black man is seen as too good for people is a huge step huge step indeed our polls show more than a third of voters think Obama doesn't understand the struggles of blue collar workers. Oh yes I never thought I'd see the day when an old white millionaire is viewed as having more in common with working folks than a black man. It's a proud day for America. It is. Remember there was a time when a white person would see a black man on the street and cross to the other side for family get my vote wasn't that long ago. So he crosses out of fear he'll be asked to donate to people who dared to. Solid journalism at their finest news source a bit of a look is that some part of baritone day's work at The Onion where he works that's what the kind of work that they do you often up in these these kind of racist comment

commentary that Bruce was concerned about in a comedic fashion I have to speak about Jack and Jill Politics. And it leads me to my next question because Jack and Jill Politics it seems to me to be a very post civil rights generation voice. Some of the commentary is so sharp so precise and you know you have to go when you read it really on point. It's very well done. So congratulations to you for that work and your co-founder. But it really does oftentimes take issue with what is sacrosanct in the black community anyway for civil rights generation folks. And so I wondered if in general when you're what you're speaking about in your book about how to be black is a little bit generational as well in your approach. It absolutely is and just to be clear for our listeners I didn't write that specific Onion piece that you aired I'm proud to be part of the family of people who did I press the publish button on the website the day it went live I think that was my specific contribution to

that one so a black man published it that take that America. So your point about the generational thing. Absolutely absolutely important and here's you know people who are directly involved in major conflict you know can have a hard time seeing their struggle and that period as anything but major conflict. Their children are more distant from you take any traumatic period say World War 2 you take the civil rights movement you think all kinds of things. And you know they would like you can't joke about that and sacrosanct like you said that that's that's too soon. And then the whole kind of thing you can't talk about this tragedy and in a lighthearted way and the goal isn't just to be aggressive or sharp for the sake of it. It's like one of the reasons we can do this is because our forebears earned us that freedom. And when I think about my own family in this line of how do you

deal with power and its distribution and who holds it. My great grandfather taught himself to read. That was his revolutionary act. My grandmother was the first black employee inside the US Supreme Court building so in one generation much more freedom she's working in a major branch of government office. My mother not only was she a government employee during my childhood but before that she was out in the streets agitating for that government to do more right by all of its people and gives birth to me who can make fake news right who can satirize that government and the media and that society and has the freedom to speak truth in a different way. Each of those generations is trying to access speak and spread truth in its own way. And each one has earned a little more elbow room and a little more freedom for the ones after so it's not out of any intentional disrespect for prior generations or we don't take things as seriously. I think we see them differently because our perspective is different I think our perspective was allowed to be different in large part because

the folks that came before us offered us that opportunity with their own version of the struggle. Well I have to say again that Jack and Jill politics very well. Very insightful past that. Yeah. Let's talk about because you know you're making fun in here and it's really funny people so I know we're getting heavy here but it's fun. The code switching that black people just have in their lives anyway and. So you have a foot in each world sort of even if you didn't go to Sidwell Friends and have rites of passage on the weekend. Generally speaking that's something that you do. Does that challenge your authenticity to sort to engage in the code switching that's long been a part of many black people's experience. I don't think so I don't think there's really any correlation between how authentic you are and how many worlds you live in and I even the idea of authenticity you know from the individual's perspective it shouldn't be a

question other but it's other people's issue your authenticity is other people's problems because they're the one putting that on oh you're not black enough or you're too black because you live here or work there or socialize with this and that person if you're cool with it and know who you are. That's the authenticity that matters. And what the code switching I think it's a fun talent. You know you're bilingual you're bicultural our tribe cultural our. Duple cultural I don't know the world people are living in but the world has worked that way across many different lines across you know poor and wealthy across different types of working class and different types of white collar across the actual languages and across religions to be able to walk in a church and know how to behave to be able to walk in a mosque and know how to behave. There is not that behavior and conformity is the thing but to be culturally you know to be to be able to fit in or be appropriate or smoothly communicate with those around you. Very valuable thing. I think separating that from the question of authenticity and challenging the very

term authenticity is more important to me than where code switching falls in relation to it. Well that just means I can take back my black card because that could be a Southern black woman who cannot make potato salad and still be Blick. I'm still black you know so I. Feel like the queen of black England is I confer upon you you know the Black Knight hood if it's mine to give you have it. I'm very certain that last word on why we must buy this book for you. Oh yeah this is so you know we got a lot of cool initiatives to engage the readership. We've got hoodies that we're working on getting sold we have a website how to be black to me we're asking all the questions you asked me of everyone in the public and not just black people because we share this in common. But the most effective way for people to understand what's at stake here. If you don't buy this book you're a racist. That's what it is. It's science people I'm just the messenger don't shoot me. I talk to the scientists.

It's proven if you don't buy the book you're racist. Look it's Black History Month you heard Rule number three don't be racist during Black History Month. Buy the book. That's a very good day. And he's a black sport so he knows. But thank you so much for talking with thank you it's a very a very fun time and I'm looking forward to you know we can get the secret meeting on Thursday and as are you. We're going to let James Rouse black and proud take us out. We've been speaking with comedian Barrett today Thurston his new book is How to Be Black and you can find a link to it at our website WGBH dot org slash Calla Crossley. You can keep on top of the Calla Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash gala Crossley follow us on Twitter become a fan of the Calla Crossley Show on Facebook today show was engineered by Allen madness produced by Chelsea Mertz will Rosalynn and Abby Ruzicka the Calla Crossley Show is a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.