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I'm Sue O'Connell and this is the Kelly Crossley Show. We're looking at poverty and homelessness among the elderly. Within the next decade the number of elderly homeless is expected to go up by 30 percent. The reason behind this we're getting older and living longer and the elderly are facing poverty at rates that we haven't seen in decades. In Massachusetts our elders can only stretch a dollar far enough to cover 60 percent of their living expenses and the death of a spouse or an unexpected medical expense. Could force an elder onto the street with projections that poverty and homelessness among the elderly will only go up. Does the state have the resources it needs to handle this. From there we look at Occupy Boston Spring Awakening is it in full bloom or is it still a thorn in the side of corporate America. That's next on the Kelly Crossley Show. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying the defense in John Edwards corruption trial rests without calling the former Democratic presidential

candidate or his ex-mistress to the stand. Edwards faces six counts of violating campaign finance law by using donors money to hide his extramarital affair with Rielle Hunter while he was running for president in 2008. Edwards has pleaded not guilty. President Obama along with the Democratic Party raised more than 43 million dollars for his re-election campaign last month. NPR's Scott Horsley reports that's down from the March fund raising total but it's well above the April figure from four years ago. Campaign manager Jim Messina announced the fundraising total in a video message. He says the money raised is helping to pay for forty two new field offices open last month in battleground states such as Colorado Ohio and Florida. Those offices plus one hundred twenty new members were able to hire means that we can be out there every day training volunteers knocking on doors making phone calls and registering your vote.

The vast majority of donations to the campaign were for less than two hundred fifty dollars. The campaign has to file its formal report by midnight Sunday. Scott Horsley NPR News the White House. Mitt Romney is hitting President Obama's record on debt campaigning in the battleground state of Florida today. The Republican candidate told reporters he would quote stop the spending and borrowing inferno. Yesterday House Speaker John Boehner said that when Congress raises the nation's borrowing cap he would again insist on spending cuts and budget reforms to offset the increase. The White House warns that could cause a repeat of last year when he says when the press secretary says Republicans held government credit quote hostage. United Nations monitors were safely evacuated from a tense town in northern Syria today a day after an explosion hit their convoy. NPR's Michele Kelemen spoke with the head of U.N. peacekeeping about the incident. U.N. undersecretary general air of a leadscrew says it's too early to say who is responsible for the attack on U.N. monitors in the town of Honshu Koon.

But we are definitely taking these most moves because. Will do thank God for that. There were no casualties but the amount of damage inflicting on the vehicles is very substantial He says the U.N. monitors stayed overnight under the protection of opposition fighters before returning to their base led Seuss's in Washington seeking more political support for this mission. He says U.N. monitors are being deployed quickly but adds they are there to observe a cease fire that doesn't exist. Michele Kelemen NPR News Washington. At last check on Wall Street the Dow is up 23 points to twelve thousand six hundred fifty five in the Nasdaq was down 1. This is NPR News. Good afternoon from the WGBH radio newsroom in Boston I'm Christina Quinn with some of the local stories we're following. The top Senate panel has unveiled a thirty two point three billion dollar state budget for the fiscal year starting July 1st. The spending plan approved by the Senate Ways and Means Committee today would not hike any state taxes but calls for a 290 million dollar withdrawal from the

state's so-called rainy day fund. The House passed a spending plan in April that also had no tax hikes and called for taking 400 million dollars from the rainy day fund. The Senate proposal would also create a special state police unit to investigate welfare fraud. It would also keep partially open a Taunton psychiatric hospital pegged for closure by Governor Deval Patrick and the house. Boston's Phoenix media communications group is selling radio station 1.7 next to Clear Channel Communications pending Federal Communication Commission approval. Publisher Steven Mendips made the announcement in a memo to employees this morning that was posted online. Menage said next will follow the necessary paperwork with the FCC today to trigger the license approval and the state will remain on the air during the FCC process process. The Boston Business Journal reports that 17 of 21 staffers have been let go. The state's consumer protection office has created a bunch of phony websites as part of an effort to warn people about phony websites. Anyone who tries to make a purchase on one of the sites is immediately directed to a state educational website that warns consumers about similar online scams. The fake sites can be accessed

through top Massachusetts deals dot com. Under Secretary of Consumer Affairs Barbara Anthony says cyber criminals not only steal from consumers millions of dollars each year but in many cases their personal information as well. In sports the Red Sox are in Tampa Bay tonight to play the Rays and the Boston Celtics are preparing for Game 3 of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the semi Sixers today in Philadelphia. The weather forecast for the remainder of the afternoon is a cloudy one with showers highs in the lower 70s tonight partly cloudy and even then clearing with overnight lows in the mid 50s. Right now it's 65 degrees in Boston. Support for NPR comes from CenturyLink providing broadband entertainment and voice technologies to Americans and Fortune 500 companies. Century Link your link to what's next. Good afternoon I'm Sue O'Connell in for Kelly Crossley WGBH is focusing on poverty and homelessness among the elderly reporter Philip Martin has been looking at affordable housing options in the city and we're going to continue that conversation with a look at the risk factors the elderly faced when it comes to poverty and

homelessness particularly with so many of us living older and longer and with more problems coming along. I'm joined by Professor Judith gone. She is the chair of Social Research at Boston University School of Social Work Judith gone yea thank you so much for joining us today tonight had to be here citizen. So let's talk a little bit about for the purposes of our discussion what we're defining as elderly it's not just folks in their 70s 80s or 90s. That's right when we look at the federal poverty statistics they do focus on those as 65 and older. However when we talk specifically about homelessness amongst the older population the age typically used is age 50 or older. The reason for that is because homeless individuals in their 50s often have the same chronic health problems that we see in much older adults. It's almost as if you know you go back a few generations where today's 50 used

to be Yesterday 70 but for folks who are living a much harder and more difficult lifestyle that's a reality for them today. That's right the harsh conditions of being on the street often accelerates the effects of aging. Now the challenge in front of us today is is it is it just the sheer number of baby boomers who are entering into the senior world or is it and or is it the economic crisis that we're facing today. I think it's the intersection of both you're right there are the looming boomers that is the baby boomers are now quickly entering the ranks of older adults. And even if the poverty rate did not it didn't change the share number of baby boomers aging means that there's going to be more older people living in poverty. But we know that during the past decade many middle class individuals and families have felt themselves slipping down the economic ladder.

So it's about both the growing numbers but also the current economic conditions and the double edge sword of medical progress that we've made and cures and diagnosis is of course that many of us are living longer which is a good thing. And many of us are able to take formally terminal illness and turn them into a chronic manageable disease. But for folks who are facing homelessness or poverty managing a chronic disease in itself can be a bit of a death sentence. Absolutely so the good news is yes we are living longer and for many of us the onset of serious disabling diseases happens later. But we know that health is correlated with income and we know that certain populations within the older population face greater risk of economic hardship. We know that African-Americans and Latinos are more than twice as likely to be in poverty than whites. We know that women are

more likely to be in poverty in old age than are men. Marital status is an important indicator of poverty. Married individuals both men and women are less likely to be in poverty in later life as compared to those who never married. And then again as we age as you go into your 70s 80s and 90s the risk of being in poverty increases dramatically. The number of for lack of a better term the lifestyle of this generation and the current generation where divorce was more likely choosing to remain single more likely children adult children moving from the home area across the country out of the country can leave many folks as they enter their 50s 60s and 70s in a much more vulnerable position say than than our grandparents were. That's right some have fewer chil adult children to call upon. There's also issues about do step children feel the same

responsibility and bond to step parents as they age. Now middle aged adults may find they not only have one grandmother to support an old age but they have a grandmother a grandfather a great grandmother a great grandfather a great aunt etc. so that there may be a greater number of older generation members to support. I think you know when you raise the issue of the baby boomers I think there's a real concern because it's not what they're going to be more in number but we see. Evidence that a substantial proportion of baby boomers may be financially insecure in old age. The employment Benefit Research Institute did a retirement readiness rating and they found nearly half of boomers between born between 1048 and 1954 are at risk of not having sufficient funds to meet their and adequate retirement income and meet their medical costs.

I'm speaking with Judith Gonyea. She's the chair of Social Research at Boston University School of Social Work. And we're talking about the risk factors and poverty and homelessness among the elderly. You know one of the common characteristics that I think most elderly and seniors share is the stubbornness and independence. You know I always felt blessed that my mom who was her stubbornness and independence was a hallmark of her. Her character her entire life until she became a senior and she gave up her license. She would only drive within a one block radius she went into senior housing. It is amazing though even in the most dire circumstances you have folks who do in some instances would rather be on the street than be in some sort of homeless shelter. I would rather live alone in poverty than be able to reach out and connect with a resource that may help them. You know as in the social worker field I'm sure that this is a human condition rather than something it's easily changed but what kind of efforts can you make with with folks who really view their

independence as. I don't use the word entitlement but but as a barrier for them to get the help and support that they need. I think you raise a really important pointer issue. I think most. Older adults want to maintain independent as long as possible and they want to maintain their dignity. One's home is a symbol of that. A home is more than a physical shelter. A home is about our identity it's about our social identity it's about our cultural identity. We look out of our windows in our home and we see a neighborhood that we've known we see families that we've known we watch trees grow up in our neighborhood. Those are all things that explain who we are so that we know the vast majority of individuals want to stay in their home. Survey after survey has shown this 90 percent of individuals want to age we say age in place they want to remain in their homes and if they can't remain in their homes they want to remain in the

same community. And so I think the challenge we face is how do we create options for those individuals who want to remain in place in their home or their community I think. Yes there is the issue of pride and the stigma of reaching out on the other hand I think often times elders don't know about the resources that are available. And that's what I think we can do a better job about helping them understand that there are options available. And the critical issue is how do we make these options available to all elders regardless of their economic means. You know one of the challenges besides the obvious you know moral implications of society but one of the challenges that didn't strike me until I was researching on this topic was the number of emergency room visits that elders in crisis and I don't mean necessarily health crisis that I make that if you are living

on the borderline of poverty or are homeless a trip to the E.R. can be a warm bed obviously and a warm meal and that many of these E.R. visits could be eliminated and moved to a different sort of resource and that's a cost. Financial cost that we all bear right. I think those of us who are advocating for greater resources for this to address elder homelessness make that case that hospital visits urgency room visits shelters days jails long term care institutions nursing homes these are more expensive solutions and they're not the solutions that individuals want. So the challenge is how do we move towards that. Some of the issue of homelessness is about lack of affordable housing. We know that those individuals elders who are facing persistent poverty

market rate rents are not doable. Getting the money together for a first last and a security deposit an insurmountable obstacle to them. We know that there is not enough publicly subsidized housing. I believe that there's recent data is that suggest that for every elder apartment in public housing there are nine elders waiting for a spot for housing choice. What we used to call Section 8 vouchers. It's my understanding that the wait is three years now. So what are some of the steps that folks can take in order to. You can reach out to Elder homelessness elder folks who might be facing homelessness or work with within the government structure and what what can folks do to work toward ending this problem. So first I'm going to say there's no one magic bullet. We're talking about economic issues we're talking about housing issues and we're talking about

health issues and some of the problems we come front is that these three areas are three separate silos whether we talk about federal policy or state policy and the complexity of homelessness often involves all three. For some it is simply about affordable housing. It is a brick and mortar solution. Yet what we realized is that for a significant proportion of homeless elder it's more complicated. It's not just poverty but it may be. Physical frailty it may be mental illness it may be substance abuse it may be domestic violence and for these individuals a brick and mortar approach alone may not be sufficient. One of the encouraging programs or areas of innovation has been around the creation of what we call service enriched or supportive affordable

housing. I'm very proud that here in Boston we have an organization that bin has provided leadership on this. There's an organization called hearth which used to be the committee to end elder homelessness a group that was started by about a half a dozen women in their 70s and 80s who saw the problem of Elder homelessness and wanted to do something about it. In the approximate I believe about two decades since they took on that issue they have created bought seven large buildings in the Boston area and converted it to one hundred thirty seven service enriched affordable apartments. What that means is is that into that housing is the two health services social services and mental health services that there's social workers nurses doctors personal care attendants available and that each

individual. Has an individualized service plan. This enables individuals who may be on poverty have some other complicating factors get the support to be housed to be in a permanent safe environment. I think it's important to stress the idea permanent because these are people who are not cycling in and out of housing that with the supports they maintain themselves well and become socially connected to their community. It looks perhaps more expensive to have these service and rich services with the housing but I would just go back to your point. It's cheaper than emergency rooms it's cheaper than shelters it's cheaper than nursing homes. The other places that these individuals often do wind up. If a person is on the streets an elderly person is on the streets is. Is there any kind of emergency intervention that can happen to move that person from the street

into some sort of even a short term shelter but is there already a system in place that can help that person. There are services in place that reach out for have heart for example has an outreach team that is connected to the shelters in the city and specifically work with the elder clients. Residents of the shelters. I think the real challenge is so much of what we do is about intervention after the person becomes homeless vs. prevention. The irony I say of our policies is to get priority for public housing. One needs to bottom out and go to a shelter so even if you're an older person who can be. We use the term couch or doubled up in an apartment with friends or families. You need to get priority for housing. You need to bottom out to go to a shelter

to get priorities that seems backwards to me that we should be able to intervene sooner. We need to get people who are on the risk before they get on the street. Well it's all good information. Certainly opening the eyes to folks who may not be paying attention especially those of us listening who understand that 50 may be the new elderly so important. I think you have that in mind we appreciate your coming by. We've been talking about the elderly and the unique challenges that come with being older and poor. We've had Professor Judith Dawn Yanek She's the chair of Social Research at Boston University School of Social Work to learn more about this topic please visit us at WGBH dot org slash news. Coming up we take stock of Occupy Boston's Spring Awakening. You're listening to eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston Public Radio. We love our contributors. That means you and innuendo and Natick with the

hundred Douglas celebration of light spring event featuring the new cordless light rawest silhouette shades as well as duet arc a Tele and Lumen at shading systems innuendo dot com and Tivoli audio. I think WGBH and all it represents both in this market and really around the world. It's important for our company to be associated with Tom divest o founder and CEO Tivoli audio who has just started a sponsorship and we were to hear from people regularly that they hear sponsorship on the radio and get store customers to learn more visit WGBH dot org slash sponsorship. I'm Lisa Mullins Many Greeks have had enough of the austerity imposed by the European Union. They say it's time for Greece to go it alone. I would predict that if Greece does leave the euro the next two years will be extremely difficult. But equally the rebound will be faster faster for Greece that is not everybody is so optimistic. Greeks consider leaving the eurozone. Next time on the world.

Coming up at 3 o'clock here at eighty nine point seven WGBH. This summer you'll turn to public radio to keep up with the Summer Olympics the presidential election your summer reading list of awesome Red Sox big summer movies with computer created ailing in these battles and creature help eighty nine point seven get to the stories you care about and give a little bit more in support of a lot more coverage. Go above and beyond with an additional gift just click the donate button at WGBH dot org. Great question and it's a great question and that's a great question. It's a great question. Rick great question on fresh air you'll hear unexpected questions and unexpected answers this afternoon to toot your own eighty nine point seven WGBH. I'm Sue O'Connell in for Geli Crossley and we're talking about Occupy Boston with a focus on their mission and momentum I'm joined by Christopher Rome and Robert FARRANT.

Chris is a reporter for The Boston Phoenix and author of ninety nine nights with the 99 percent. And Bob Bryant is a professor of history and labor studies at UMass Lowell and the co-director of the Center for Family work and community. Welcome back to the two of you. Pleasure. Thank you. So Chris I want to start with you with all the great writing that you've done for the Phoenix and with your book on on the on the 99 percent. You know I I'm fascinated by how the media sort of approaches occupy that it's almost without this firm structure of leadership in a press release and there's a sort of flailing around about how to how to deal with it. And I don't feel like our attention right now is this Spring Awakening so much as it is just another progress report on what's happening with Occupy. Yeah I think well the first thing this is kind of my my big thing that I came up with on the way over here just to put together all these things I've been thinking about which is that. It's really time to stop talking about militias take Occupy Boston for example as just Occupy Boston

as just this group that meets a couple of times a week and has these certain protests certainly there is not that camp right now at this juncture. But to really look at is where it spread where it's affecting other communities where it's taken hold. We were just talking about you know I spent some time with Occupy Cape Cod and that is that in addition to suburbs like Natick Quincy there are meetings you know people energized by Occupy people who really kind of came out of the woodwork who haven't been involved politically active or active in progressive causes in years. So that's that's one way. But what about Occupy spring. We talk about a lot of the more exciting the things that you will see on the news now that occupies nodded. I think something that's necessarily reported on daily so of course you know May Day was huge and I was in New York for that there are 30000 people in the street that's the that was the NYPD estimate this wasn't just occupy exaggerating the numbers as they tend to do as everybody 10 of them do. And you know that didn't get even that didn't

get very much play even in the New York City papers let alone outside of that so. But these are significant events and you know we'll talk about Neda. There are shareholders meetings across the country and that's the bigger front but other than that it's really time to start talking about Occupy with the community organizations that were existing that they're now working with. You know there's so much about it about Occupy that reminds me of the early days of the gay rights movement. You know that there were times where you'd have a great number of people show up and there'd be nothing on the press about it you know like Well really how many people have to show up in order for it to be newsworthy and also the diversity in opinion is so hard for you know I don't want to just hammer the media but it is hard for people to digest that you know Occupy has such a diversity. You know I was and I tell this story every time we have an opportunity to talk about Occupy how struck I was talking to a 70 plus year old gentleman at my storage facility back in the early kind of launch of Occupy about how he would love

to be there but he doesn't know what to do. You know he's not going to go camp out. You know what can he do and from your story about the folks down on Cape Cod It really does you know talk about how grown ups if you will are able to find a way to. Get involved in Occupy. There are people in Cape Cod 70 70 year olds out there with walkers helping with foreclosure blockades. There's absolutely room for these kind of opportunities for everybody. As far as the media also it's really interesting dynamic because it's in my book early on I was critical of the Occupy movement because they kept streaming media blackout media blackout and there wasn't a media blackout. They in fact and I had listed all these you know from the day from day one from before the pepper spray started flying there was tons of coverage there really was from all your major outlets to your alternative press to your blogs like Daily Coast to Keith Olbermann was covering it early on. Now it's I'm kind of wondering is it like the boy who cried wolf. Now there

are now the coverage really is lacking and you know personally you know obviously I'm sympathetic to the movement but I think it's important for even all alternative outlets like the phoenix and all weeklies across the country for example to cover this the way that we do because a lot of the internal media the internal information dissemination and the Occupy newspapers Occupy Wall Street Journal in Boston is the occupier. Those are very important. I have certainly read them and I know a lot of people do. But I think it's also important to kind of get this you know at least some somewhat of a third party voice in there and it's really missing right now. A lot of all weeklies are asleep on the job across the country too. But we would be remiss if we didn't you know look to history for some touchstone moments on mistakes that were made in the past or application's ideas that can be applied to to the Occupy movement what are some of the things that strike you right out of the box about what's happening today and where does it resonate with things in the past.

I think where. It resonates for me and I was thinking about this driving on the way in because I spent the morning in in Lawrence at the exhibit for the brown Rosa strike I thought a lot about over the last few months that strike but also sort of the continuum of labor and labor struggles and where labor was at its high point in I think at least in U.S. history were the moments where linkages were made between for lack of a better term social movements and labor issues were hooked together so for example in the large mass movement to try to push for the eight hour day in the early 1880s culminating in 1886 in Haymarket Square that was a really broad based movement to attack this question of how long the workday was how dangerous work was and it was something that resonated not just amongst workers in the shop but it was an issue that was organized in this really broad based way as well sort of pushing a little bit forward into the late 1880s 1890s there was strong linkages between farmers and laborers in the Populist Party which was a political party

which ran candidates and in its platform it. It identified labor issues issues around minimum wages around safety at work around the length of the workday but it also talked about reforming capitalism. This had been the period of great railroad expansion and the so-called robber barons which we read about in our history books and they were gouging farmers unmercifully and moving their freight and by farmers and laborers sort of uniting this created this very broad based movement that that had some electoral success at the congressional level and definitely at the state level and then sort of coming forward a bit more the Triangle fire in New York City in one thousand nine hundred one thousand eleven and then the bread and roses strike those to sort of catapult this question of workers communities safe work decent wages childcare. Also it's of issues related to gender. They all get sort of put in this stew pot again and that creates for a time a really powerful movement as well. So I think of Occupy I sort of see

that sort of I don't gestalt or whatever you want to call it there's something going on in the air and that's really exciting as somebody who. Participate in the anti-war movement when I was a student in Boston in the 60s and labor was if not on passive oftentimes sometimes would actually be very aggressive against that broad based social movement we don't see that now and that's very exciting. You know it's always easy from current standpoint to look back and say you know everything went very smoothly. You know I love the books that came out recently on the civil rights movement of the 60s. You know how Martin Luther King almost didn't get to speak. There was in-fighting you know and it's we don't have the opportunity necessarily to learn those things. But you know what's happening with Occupy is really not that different in terms of its diversity and its messiness if you will of every other rights movement we've ever had. Yeah I mean the strike in Lawrence I mean it's fascinating because doing the research that we've been doing I mean there were 30 nationalities. Living in Lawrence and there were that many

languages if not more religions churches foodways whatever. So that was pretty messy but people figured out a way out. We were talking before we came in and I mean the learned strikers did the human microphone before the human microphone and mike check before mike check because they simultaneously translated all their meetings into all of these languages because they fully understood the only way this was going to go forward was going to be to create this broad based solidarity. They learned each other's songs it was called The Singing strike because people were marching all over creation in downtown Lawrence singing at the top of their lungs. Somebody else's song in Italian or Polish or uterus or what have you. And that really built up the momentum and so the times that I was downtown in Boston to visit to be at Occupy or participate in rallies I sort of saw that same you know that same kind of an energy which is really again something very positive to take away. Chris a lot of progressives I've I've talked to Deborah Democrats are concerned about the upcoming convention in Philadelphia

and what Occupy may or may not do around the convention and how that may or may not affect. The re-election of President Obama and you know it's many folks are pointing of course to Chicago and some of the the riots that happened there back in the day. Do you have any feeling about what the Occupy people on the street I don't mean actually in the street but on the ground are planning or thinking about in terms of their convention activities for Charlotte. Yeah I'm sorry I think there is a July 4th there's an arche right right in Philadelphia as well as for Charlotte to be honest you know. I'm really looking at this kind of step by step and you know would be the next big thing when you're going in and I'm going to need only to wrap up a minute just to go in minutes. But I will say that really this is if there's ever been anything it's going to prove to conservatives who really dislike occupy that they really are not in the bag for Barack Obama or for his campaign or for his administration. Charlotte's going to be the test of that because of

course it wasn't enough that you know the first the first office of the shutdown I was an Obama campaign office you know not not a Republicans but but really I think you know the way there is and I've said this over and over. There really is a just a serious disdain for electoral politics across the Occupy spectrum. I don't see that changing very much. A lot of things they stand for a lot of things they stand against a lot of things that they stand against really. You know I think you know would be very is very emblematic of a lot of things that they stand against are what really the Democratic administration right now is embracing what is some of the things that you know when we talk about Occupy in real life not on the radio you know folks have a very different everyone has a different idea of what's happening you know if you're basic. I can't believe the bank is charging me these fees to foreclosure to CEO payment. What if you had to give the elevator pitch if you will of what Occupy nationally stands for and is looking to change what

what what what would a summation of that be to move power back to the people and one very concrete way that they're doing this and this is really been effective and there's been an effort to do this in Boston by say the city council or oil for a while. Felix Arroyo Felix arroyo but they are you know getting municipalities getting small towns and even cities to move money out of the big banks and put into community banks and credit unions or wherever they can that lend back to the community is a very basic concept. It's a concept that I can't find one conservative who will disagree with me that this is something that should be done. Especially in Boston. And you know that's that's an example of really trying to just try to really spread that out to to break down the power structure as it is right now. And that's that's a that's just one of many ways of course that it's still a protest movement in many regards but there are people working behind the scenes. And another example I would give is an Occupy Cape Cod a lot of the smaller suburban occupies doing this is actually doing this paperwork that it takes to prevent these foreclosures. I mean this is a nightmare

and even and furthermore to help people before they're in the position that they're in foreclosures and this really is a war in itself against the banks I mean if anybody saw the paperwork that gets thrown at individuals who are trying to save rescue their own homes it's almost undoable. Well I went through a short sale. I mean you and I know also you know as we were talking earlier about homelessness with the elderly in order to get to a position where you could negotiate you have to actually be as far in default as you can be which is completely counter-intuitive to what you believe. So and I often think as a you know a white woman college educated where English was my first language if I can't do this I can't imagine how difficult it is. For someone who wasn't as you know as lucky as I was to have the entitlements that I have which is why this is. Which is why it's so important that this is a first and foremost a great support structure for a lot of people and resources the resources are available to them now that they just didn't even know existed. Well we're going to continue the conversation to take a quick break here I'm Sue O'Connell. I'm in for Kelly

Crossley and of course we're talking about Occupy spring with Boston Phoenix Chris Farr Rone and Professor Robert Farr and he teaches history and labor studies at UMass Lowell. The conversation continues at eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston Public Radio. WGBH programs exist because of you. And Grogan and company. Fine

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seven WGBH. For forty seven years now WGBH spring has been your chance to pick up some amazing. Stuff. Welcome welcome to the US ladies and gentlemen welcome to the community walk. This year you can bid on a brand new Toyota Prius donated by your New England Toyota dealers. Bigger and better than ever. Every winning bid supports WGBH radio and television. If you have stamina and strong eyesight Stay with us a bit high bit often but her spring auction ends May 30 first place your bids now at auction dot WGBH dot org. Meetings of the WGBH board of trustees the Community Advisory Board and their respective committees are open to the public information about meeting dates times and places can be found online at WGBH dot org slash meetings. Welcome back to the Kelly cross Lee show I'm Sue O'Connell sitting in for Kelly and if you're just tuning in we're talking about Occupy spring.

Looking at where the movement is today I'm joined by Christopher Roan and Robert forte. Chris is a reporter for The Boston Phoenix and author of ninety nine ninths with the 99 percent. And Bob forand is a professor of history and labor studies at UMass Lowell and co-director of the Center for Family work and community. But I want to talk a little bit about the political action and structure of occupy or their rejection of the existing political structure as a way to make change is there any any lesson we can learn from that from the past you know from from this perspective it seems like everyone has always had a plan to change at some point by by election and by political movement but I'm sure that isn't always true. Yeah I mean we can't forget that women are coming. Into the early 20th century dealing with workplace issues women didn't have the right to vote so they couldn't. So there's obviously a suffrage movement where people are trying to

react to the system in that way to get the vote but at the same time the abolitionist movement you know had heavy heavy involvement in leadership from women. The populist movement I was referring to for before had you know major you know major major people one of the main speakers for the populist movement was a woman who whose slogan was raise less corn and more hell. And so people were were again the example of Lawrence is a good one experimenting with all sorts of tactics is a good thing to think about here is this example of foreclosures where in the 1930s people were trying to figure out how to reform the political system or create finance control committee or whatever is happening in Washington they would basically disrupt sales of farms they wouldn't let a banker get anywhere near a farm. If somebody could make a payment or they would mob the farm. The banker would come to try to mortgage off the farm. It would all be planned already one person would bid a dollar and then nobody else would get a penny and now it's a legal auction somebody would pay the banker a dollar and the

farmer would get back their farm for a buck and they did this without Facebook. They did this without Facebook without Twitter. That's what I mean and so you know this is the sort of power of the link in the community was really you know something to behold I mean bankers would be put in you know in the trunk of somebody's car and driven to the county line and told not to come back again the idea that they somehow could come in and take away the family farm was just not the stuff of what people in these are places now that we think of as the you know as the as the conservative states I mean this was happening in Texas Nebraska Oklahoma or South Dakota the middle of the country during this period there in the late 19th century in the mid 20th century with some of the most radical part of the country by far. They were much more clever and creative and much less interested in reform or compromise or voting something they were they believed in direct action and they they did it. Chris there's a lot of anecdotal stories of folks on the ground here at Occupy Boston

dealing with the police officers who were saying to them off the record look at I know you're doing we're supporting you and the influx of the labor support even if it's just lip service at this point does does seem to be moving forward in terms of. Solidifying an Occupy ideal. Well first I just want to say that where as I said of you know they're not working on Barack Obama's campaign they are. Occupy is not unifying behind one or even several candidates. That doesn't mean they're not working in the you know in politics at all. I mean in Massachusetts they really have thrown a lot of weight behind really running up against some of the irresponsible legislation that's been on the table at the State House three strikes stand your ground. They had a temporary encampment outside of the state house because of service cuts and fare hikes so you know that it's different it's direct action but it's absolutely aimed square at the State House not just at the financial sector but even of course that plays into a lot of

this right in there are people who believe in the Occupy ideas who are more political and who are forwarding that idea. Again it's not just one label you can put on on the group. Right and as far as the relationship with organized labor I would say that a lot of it was superficial certainly started as superficial. Some of the early you know press conferences between city life you know urban and Occupy Boston but now you know you go to occupy meetings and it's kind of like it's one of the same I've been covering progressive cause in Boston for about 10 years and you know this is a lot of the same characters but now they're kind of all together. Whereas when I used to see them all together would be kind of like one person handing out flyers for their marks the next week. Would he be handing out their anti Iraq war flyer at the women's march the week before. Now it's really a bigger tent but I would argue that they're not really that superficial a lot of these connections are real mass uniting was out this morning protesting State Street. And I'm not sure I was able to be there but my guess is there were plenty of occupied Occupy Boston people there. This is just

this is what the front is that's what it's what it's grown into they realized. Ironically the biggest the biggest criticism of Occupy from the other side that it's you know. So now Bulis and there's so many groups here really is the strength I believe moving forward and they'll be able individual Anarch and Arcas minded people that really kind of reject organized labor as a whole and that's just not the general sentiment I think by and large people really looking to work with any groups that have the same mindset. You know people first I misspoke earlier about the DNC and got confused with the Philadelphia July 4th action that's happening where Occupy is going to really take the birth of our nation for a moment too. Make a point you want to talk a little bit about some of the for lack of a better term events that are coming up in the Occupy spring and summer. Well yeah so I'll finish up and they go Yeah right away but you know so you can see July 4th should be interesting. I'm not sure exactly where relations are

now but they really were kind of like to Occupy camps that were having different Congresses if you will and actions leading up to that. My prediction is that they will synthesize in the approach to the first week of July. And you know hopefully work together. And but of course we're going to see your major rallies ad at the DNC in Charlotte and at the Republican National Convention in Tampa in May Day was huge I can't stress that enough it really was a big event in New York and also a great symbol of where the how far the movements come with their work with organized labor I mean there were dozens of groups that were involved with that action and it went off pretty smoothly I would say they were sure there were some arrests but really it was a major front for Occupy and it demonstrated that they can work with these organizations and labor unions. And then of course Neda which is this week which is kind of its own. Beast all together it's it's it's not is it's not outside of the Occupy

wheel house like a lot of people think they are. I was just in Chicago there's a chapter on Chicago in my book. Chicago has 100000 foreclosed homes the Southside is in shambles. Kids are shooting each other at alarming rates. There are food deserts everywhere wealth disparity homelessness hopelessness and people are outraged to see Neda which is kind of a breathing symbol of this military industrial complex that a lot of people myself included think is largely responsible for a lot of the problems in this country. People are kind of sick to their stomach to see this paraded in front of them. And that and the expectations that they're going to be about 60000 people there are they all occupy people. Of course not necessarily people there will be many people my guess is from across the country have been activated for years. To pursue this sort of action but Occupy is definitely the largest banner that people organizing from behind you know Bob it's funny I keep reading and I read in one of Chris's stories that The Boston Phoenix but I've read it elsewhere where where folks who are at a certain age who are involved in Occupy are clear to say they're not hippies which as if the hippies didn't do anything you

know as if like the the riots and the protests of the 60s had no effect I don't want to be a hippie you know but you know there is a certain maturity of. I don't know what a larger a long term view that just comes with age and I'm just wondering if you see you know if you were able to give some advice what would your advice be to the to the Occupy movement at large. Well one thing which is really fascinating about the thing July 4th in Philadelphia is that in 1976 I helped organize that because they said something you know no thanks a lot. I'm not coming back. In 1976 we organized a big rally in protests in Philadelphia called the bicentennial without colonies which was focused on Puerto Rico and Puerto Rican independence and a whole broad cross-section of issues and so it's interesting to hear you know now that's going to happen again I think. I mean what what I think is that people have to experiment with strategies and tactics there's not a there's not a way to

do this. There's not. And I think that sometimes of the media's frustration it's like they want they want somebody to tell them what they're going to do what whoever the we is what we are going to do so that they can write it and meet a deadline. And that's not going to happen this is a broad based social movement. It's like an amoeba or like one of those crazy lamps lava lamps that's going to kind of go. And that's just the way it is and it's not so easy to rain something like that in. I think you can learn a lot from. From the history of what where big movements like this sort of foundered in the past and they found it in the past because ultimately at some point a high degree of sectarianism sort of reared its ugly head and a group of people from within began to think they had all the answers and the only way to do this was the way they wanted it to be done. That happened a lot when I lived in Boston with the anti-war movement with the civil rights work in Boston and other things that I had been involved in while I was a student. And I would say if it's at all possible when that begins to rear its ugly head you know sort of do the human

microphone in a case that those people because there's not a one way and I think the thing that would turn the labor movement off the most in terms of building this broader base coalition would be for people sort of another lesson here would be for people to show some level of distain for people who actually punch a time clock and go to work every day and I think that that that really. That had its its insidious sort of stranglehold in the in the anti-war movement in the in the in the 60s in the 70s and that has to be prevented at all costs as well because either all boats rise or we're just going to you know we're going to you know just I want you know I see that from a different perspective I mean I've heard a lot of folks who I would I would imagine to be and not imagine you know to be the ninety nine percent who seem still to be critical of those protesting that they don't have jobs. You know that if these these folks are occupying and protesting would just go out and get a job everything would be OK. You know and it's sort of like the reverse of how it was in the 60s you know where you having a job would be the problem and I'm wondering Chris you know we were talking during the break

about this vast wasteland and you mentioned it in terms of describing Chicago you know places where homes are foreclosed where homes have lost value where what YOU who used to be in the middle class these folks are now living in fear. You know and they're afraid to let go of what they have they're afraid that they're going to lose what they have. And that fear sort of prevents them from from. From stepping out and becoming radicalized if I if I could for a moment I mean what's the tipping point of really finding a good coalition of of a number of you know what has to happen for more mainstream people to take whatever action it is that they want to take whether just be transferring to a local bank. Well I think first I guess to get foreclosed on it would be one thing or to have someone close to your family. But you know interestingly enough when I was in Chicago last this was I was there just as some of the community groups on the south side were starting to work on foreclosures and to really take this head on. I mean they they were they I was brought to an

entire block on the west side that there was not a single family living in any of the homes. One of the most depressing scenes I've I've ever lived through on the beat and. I was there when some of these community groups were were teaming up with Occupy Chicago who was mostly meeting downtown in Grant Park in the loop as they say and this was all new to a lot of them and this was a it was a natural team. It was a natural natural teamwork is one so from there they really saw that this these communities were struggling at a just astronomical number of suffering from the National nickel number of foreclosures that were really this is kind of the heart of everything they've been against. And the other thing I'll say as far as like Chicago and people the real argument against a lot of this stuff whether it's Nader or you know why are you doing this why are you doing this and this is what the media really always wants the easy answer for. But the answer isn't that they're asking them. I mean I would with a local say even the local media the morning television news in Illinois be covering Nate Oh no They'll be

sitting on the couch talking about American Idol if there weren't 60000 people in the streets already there are thousands of people and it's major news every Chicago network. And now you seeing it nationally so I think the answer is right there that's why people on the street. You're right. There's not there's not one way to do this but they're trying a lot of these different things. And I really think that you know now that occupy especially there's a great article in The Village Voice a couple weeks ago about how all the people a lot of these people are middle class people my age in their 30s who spent time at Rikers Island because they were arrested during Occupy Well they were well when they were there they were saying seeing. The disparity in treatment between people but you know who can afford even a couple hundred dollars for a bill like them and people who could. And then the voice got looked into and their organization that looked into the numbers and you know. All right so now who ends up in jail for Bell and who cancer although a lot of these issues they're coming up they're being on earth. And no matter what you just can't deny the Occupy movement that they really put a lot of the stuff from homelessness and drug abuse to police brutality just out there in front for everybody to see.

You know we're wrapping up but on the heels of a generation that was somewhat seeing coddled and didn't have a lot to do and didn't have a lot of hardship there really is at the least this generation coming forth through Occupy is going to be a lot more aware and a lot more in touch with the challenges that our country has for everyone it's you know they're not just going to be living in the gated community that they might have grown up in they're really going to experience. Some of the hardship that Americans have you know in my students say to me we did everything we were supposed to do. We were supposed to go to college and we were supposed to get a degree and then we were supposed to get a job in that. That was sort of what we were told from the time we can remember we've done all that we now have 85 or 100 thousand dollars worth of debt. We see Congress powerless to try to figure out what's going to happen to that interest rate and we can't find a job. So you have maybe we ought to look at what those Occupy folks are saying because maybe there's something in it that that helps us understand why when we

did everything the right way the same as some working class person who's foreclosed upon the home your house is supposed to be the American dream. And here comes this anonymous force in yanks it out from under you and you're left with right so you can go one of two ways you can come become despondent. You know you know it's just sort of sick inside and withdraw or you can say wait maybe what some of those guys and and women over there were saying in the Occupy movement it actually might make some sense and so I think that's what's going to what's going to be interesting is how this is going to grow this is not going to I can't imagine this going away because the economy is not getting better any time soon and that that will be a conversation that we will continue to have we thank both of you for your attention we've been talking about the Occupy movement Chris for Roane and Robert for Chris has some great stuff over at the Boston Phoenix. His book is ninety nine nights with the 99 percent a must read. Bob Bryant is the professor of history and labor studies at UMass Lowell and is the co-director of the Center for Family work and community I'm so well Paul I've been in for Kelly Crossley. I'll be

back tomorrow to talk about little league and what it means for our inner city youth. The Kelley costly show is a production of WGBH Boston Public Radio.