Education and Race Relations; Techniques In Human Relations Education. [Part 1 of 2]; 15

Dr jean Graham's associate professor of education at the University of Maryland is our guest lecturer electorate this session. Dr. Graham's is the author of several recent publications including schools scholars and society and also coeditor of society and education. A book of readings. At this late hour session Professor Grimes will discuss and demonstrate specific techniques and materials that can be used in teaching human relations. Dr. Grimes is it possible to teach intergroup relations. Is it easier for one grade level than another. There is a. One I park a system that attitudes that children bring to school at the age of six so they only one cell ever have. Other words they school can't do much for them because they've already been fixed in the home and in the family and in the community I suppose the more important question is can we own teach.

Well one actually was our assumption is that we can change attitudes. It's a matter of fact we're pretty sure that children are learning attitudes constantly every day. The only thing is that they're not learning the right plans as you and I would define some of their attitudes and their attitudes and we're talking I suppose about positive interracial and intergroup attitudes that would help the student to better understand his role in democracy. Yes and what I would like to show to start the program. This afternoon this evening. Would be a film. This is a. Film in which we have. A problem of intergroup understanding posed. We have several characters. In the film. I'm going to ask. A doctor very serious if you would take one of the roles of Mrs. Carter in the film would you be her husband Mr. Carter and Dr. Gibson would you play the role of the teacher. Oh that's an easy role. This this film will

not have an ending and I would like you to provide the ending. You'll see the film and then you'll find out. OK. Let's see the film. The important thing for you all remember is the fact this teacher isn't even from a great man and this is a class in world history. Mr. Fulton takes teaching seriously. It's his life. He has very definite views about the methods and Diem's of education but this is not to say that these views are always right. In just a moment. He has to conclude his final lecture on major world religions and his views are to come into sharp contrast with those of at least one of his students and her mother.

But let me emphasize that Christianity is not the only major world religion. There are millions of people who follow the teachings of Mohammad for example. Other millions are Jews other millions of tailless and so on. The simple fact that you happen to believe in Christianity is not really the most important thing the fact that you are familiar with this and only familiar with this does not necessarily mean that it is the only true religion in the world are necessarily that it's true it's wrong. For what I am or what I believe and isn't that all important to you. The important thing to you is that you will be absolutely certain why you believe as you believe. Yes but don't you believe in that. Janet I imagine there's a great deal of truth in the bibles of all major world that as far as the Christian Bible is concerned. I don't know whether it's completely true or not the following day Janet was absent from Mr. Fulton's class and he received a note saying that

he was wanted in the principal's office. You know he wants to see the fine. China. Dave would you please sit down Dave. Mrs. Carter Jenna Carter's mother is quite concerned about a lecture you gave in Janet's class yesterday. I think this would be a good place for the two of you to offer. Oh I see if you'll excuse me please. Yes I am concerned deeply. So Janet repeated the statement that she said you made in class yesterday. That the question longbow was not necessarily true. Is it possible that she misunderstood you.

Why no Mrs. Gardner I said. Frankly I was hoping that she was mistaken. Mr. Bolton I don't know what your religious views are but Jennifer using your prize to learn history not for religious instruction. I'm not trying to instruct Jonathan religion. I've never tried to tell her or any other student how to believe in matters of religion. All that I said was that there was as great a possibility about any one major world religion was true as another or perhaps that none is true perhaps. Do you honestly believe that. I think so yes. Oh I most certainly don't. Mr. Fulton children need faith. Today the world is confused enough. Can't you see that Janet may end up without any beliefs at all. Do you want to accept the responsibility for that. This guy there I have to accept that responsibility. I want Janet to adopt a daughter everything she's ever been taught to believe them in heaven's name because if she doesn't

she can't learn. I want Janet to think I want her to come to her own conclusions. Don't you know I don't not yet. There are certain things I want Janet to believe without question and I don't want her fate destroyed I'm not trying to destroy your faith I'm only trying to balance do you have then question of democracy of the home their parents. Yes Mrs. Carter I do. You say I'm just as interested in Janet's welfare as you are. But I want Janet to learn to think I want to form or own conclusions not some Plato borrow mine or yours Mr. Fulton. Janet is mind up there and rearing her is my responsibility. I don't want you or anyone else trying to sink her faith in Christianity or democracy or anything else that we have spent four years trying to teach her.

I want Janet to grow up to be a good citizen a good citizen as so do I so do I. How do we produce goods such as himself. We certainly don't do it by destroying the faith and belief of our children. And perhaps none of the distrust or certain that we don't do it by closing our minds as a being a good citizen to be totally ignored. And Mr. Fulton you remember that while you are so busy opening their minds if you were teaching in Russia or China you would certainly would not be allowed to destroy the faith of your students. You see that's exactly the point. This isn't Russia or China this is the United States this is a democracy. In a democracy people have to think for themselves. I don't want to close down its mind. I want to open it. I don't know what else I can say. MR. But even if the problem is complicated Mr. Fulton believes that students must be taught to adults before they can be taught to learn. Mrs. Carter believes that a teacher has no right to destroy beliefs which have been taught in the home. Suppose that you had

been present when Mrs. Carter and Mr Fulton were talking. What would your reactions have been. How do you think a good citizen should have reacted. Dr. Seuss would you be now Mr. Carter and continue your wife's discussion with Mr. Fulton and will Miss Gibson you will be Mr. Fulton Mr. Fulton Mrs. Carter and I want our youngster to be well anchored. We want her in touch with truth absolute truth and all you offer in the school is uncertainty. Well I don't think there is anything called absolute truth frankly I feel that we have to give the students an open mind. We have to let them seek their own way critically to think about the key issues of our society and religion is one of those characters. What kind of a school are you running here if there's no truth.

While we were teaching history and I think that in the teaching of history you have to talk about world religions and if you're going to talk about world religions you have to get a word to regenerate ending where a Christian name. Well many of our people obviously or so are heretics and you're quite right that we have many Jewish people in the United States and we have many people all say of the Muslim faith and we have many people who don't believe in any religion at all and I think we should even respect the unbeliever. You know I frankly still isn't unless you provide something better we're going to have to take our daughter out of school and send her to a private Christian school. Well Mr. Carter you have that right to do that of course but I would hope you would leave your child in a public school and I would hope that you would leave the child to the open curriculum where we can curriculum I've heard enough about the open curriculum I went to the PTA meeting the other night you know talking about a new curriculum what's wrong with her we are well let me tell you just a little bit about it. Yes Dr. Gibson you were rather involved enough were you not old Some was what you wanted was to fall to such a teacher I think were so involved I want to tell that Mr. Carter just a little bit about the new curriculum because it was

reason why we use this kind of a film. Because it does involve those who watch it they want to talk more. What ending would you have put on this film. Would you have agreed with our panel role players here. What inning do you think your students might have wanted to put on this film. This is an example of what we call an open ended film. There are many others that are open and raise other controversial issues with our young people in this session and the next one I want to present to you. Many of the ways in which we can involve children in youth and thinking. Talking feeling and learning about themselves and others. And of course our particular focus is on the touchy and sensitive and significant

problems of those differences among us that have been used to hurt and hinder and anger. In education we talk about the teachable moment. When my little boy put his finger on the hot stove and yelled I have a teachable moment I promptly said Peter hot stoves burn. Don't put your finger on hot dogs and you know what. He does not. For a while anyway. In intergroup education we can wait for the teachable moment and we may have a very long wait. It's a matter of fact I suspect in many schools the waiting has taken too long the children have come and gone through several generations and there has no never been appropriate teachable moment. But times have changed. We need not only to know that teachable moment but perhaps to create some create our own.

We need again to know and to. Be sensitive to the fact that the teachable moments the hot coals are all about us even if we are not always aware of them. Or if we cannot always capture them in educationally reasonable ways. Therefore in this program in the next one we want to look at some of the many devices many settings and many special situations we can contrive as good teachers that you can contrive. There are still those out of which we can open some new doors we can suggest new lessons. We can help our children. We certainly can help them tell how to pose from coldstone though they may want to explore and experiment further. All to the good. Let's look at one of the common experiences of children as another example.

Does this look familiar. When you were a child were you ever left out. And well I was. Do you think the children you teacher felt this way. Many of them have asked them with this picture where you ask who is here. What is happening. How does this boy feel. Why I might he be left out. I think about it. Would it make a difference in our discussion of this picture with youngsters if this boy were to grow. Chinese. Or the others we saw in the picture were negro and he. Were of another race. Why. These are questions we can ask children and you know what they are questions they can answer and they will answer and they will tell us

because these are the parts of their every day in life and out of thinking and talking about them. They can learn as I think about the complex problems of intergroup education. I have to accept four assumptions I would like to think about them with me. Perhaps you agree perhaps you disagree. Perhaps we need others but these at the moment seem to me very basic. Children's attitudes. My first point can be changed as we suggested when we first open our session. There is no question here if we could not change attitudes we would have no education. My faith is that education can change it. Secondly all persons of whatever age wherever they come from are affected

by the social valuations of groups. Who is good who is not so good. Which our mass culture conveys which our parents tell us which every message we get from our world tells us. Third learning to be nice and good in one situation with one kind of person is not necessarily transfer to other kinds of persons. We must make the transfer quite explicit we must say we now know that we will accept someone we haven't learnt about before. We will also learn about this in other settings and spell it out for I'm assuming that learning of new attitudes and new feelings occurs through the intellectual exploration of experience

and what I am talking about primarily with these various techniques we are going to present and the experiences which are our hot stoves. It is not enough just to have them. We have to look at them. Think about them a few little argue about them research them. Let's have another hot stove as an example. That's very Dr. Gibson. What do you think's happening here. Well it would appear that the youngsters are in some kind of controversy. I would assume that the young negro girl is somewhat aggressive in her complaints about a role in Othello perhaps. Well I don't know why she might not be aggressive she might be she might be laughing and said somewhat hard to say whether she is or not but I do think that it is part of the part of the fello

picture and undoubtedly they're playing a role out and therefore I assume this is role playing on their part. What. Do you think might have happened if if you didn't see the word itself there. Well I think that is a specific determinant. Perhaps we should reverse this and have the shot without a fellow now. Racing Othello I would say that this would look like a classroom heated discussion in which the young negro student is making her points with some move from the slushie She also looks sort of like a teacher to me dark very serious and she may be giving white students a bit of a hard time about a lesson they haven't learned or a mistake they might have made and if Negro students were to see this or if white students were to see it all there again I felt changes a picture because when you do have that a fellow there you sort of get the feeling this is role playing that they're acting something out. And yet if you didn't have the effect of their Negro students or white

students in terms of their own perception and their own values and their own attitudes would draw different conclusions I suppose about what that picture really. Well I think we both agree that there is greater activity and aggressiveness within the white companions. Well in this picture yes by all means but is it interesting how much Dr. Gibson and Dr. very serious could find. In one picture. And multiply them by 30 children then. Think of what she would have you would have. A great deal of content. Yet we had. Very little in actual terms of what we can eventually call contests. These last two pictures illustrate one of our methods. That of. A semi structured situation. A simple picture but one we have carefully selected because it is a stimulant. Which these young people.

Or children or adults. To thinking for themselves about the meaning. The situations might have. Like the food you eat only you can digest it. So it is with feelings only you have them only you feel your pain or your joy. So we will help. You through these devices to help children know their own feelings know they are there. And then consider them. Let's see another way in which we can look at people. Here we have pictures of children. Who are crippled in a number of ways. We also have normal children. This child has a. Hook on her arm. She has a brace. This boy's rather fat. She's. Pretty normal. This one has a brace. He wears glasses.

Crutches. I guess. He's another. Normal boy. How do. Children feel. About those who differ from them with these kinds of handicaps. Do they have feelings about them well we could ask them. I don't know these children. Some of the children may have experiences with children. Who are handicapped. How do they feel. We ask them. Then. Are some of these children you would like to have for friends. You ask. Would you want her or him a member of your class. Would you like her or him to sit next to you. Would you want. This person not to be in our class at all. We ask the children these questions and on a chart like

this. We can tabulate their responses. I'm sure that many of you have done this in varying devices that we utilize a name and here we would put responses of. A close friend. Not so close. Wouldn't one around not around at all. And tabulate who. Answers what we find out then. How close or how distant. These children. Would like to feel. In terms of. Having a handicapped person. What would this tell you. It tells you something we call social distance by way of a social distance scale. How far or near we want people to come. To us. Let's look at another set of pictures of children.

Now how do you think your class would react. Let's look at each picture. What might they say about each child. Which one would I like as a friend which one would I want to have at my party. Which one doesn't seem to belong. Which one is most like to me. Which one I think wouldn't be very happy in our class. If. You can think of appropriate questions for your group to are you can make up your own instant social distance scale. If you wish. Today's ads are quite cooperative in providing us with persons of many kinds. We have another picture showing us children

different kinds of children different settings. Again. Who are these children. How do we feel about them. Do they belong here. Do they belong with us. Let's let's have a picture too. And which. Some troll might be missing. Are there. Some children whom we don't see in this picture other some people who. We saw in the other pictures we didn't see in this one. I wonder why. Doctor versus talking. How do you feel nice these pictures. Fit into our instructional program. I have many questions. As a teacher I think I might want to ask you whether your purpose is to spill out feelings

and if you do and when these feelings are spilled out what you do above them how you help youngsters to manage them all whether your intent is a cognitive. Intent. It seems to me that Dr. Gibson. I'll speak for myself. But indulge perhaps a little bit of free association. When you stimulated us with a few of these pictures. What do you think Dr. Gibson. Well I thought I'd like to have Dr. Graham's answer that initial question and that is whether these pictures are in the AF ective area for promoting feeling among the students or whether they are to be a hot stove for the knowledge about intergroup relations or are they both are they hot stove or a springboard for both. I guess the answer is yes. Well that's that's right. It's very thoughtful divided Senate and it's. What I would like to go back to what I think is very important the fourth assumption that I made to the intellectual

exploration of experience experience is feeling and it is thinking about and putting into words the things I you think this will change attitudes and behavior. It gets attitudes and behaviors OUT IN THE OPEN. Then what we can look at them. All right about then where does the teacher take the student once they are put out in the open in a classroom response other words one of your pictures was who is missing in this picture my sons Craig is missing in that picture. Negro friend of mine has a child who's missing at least or my daughter and your daughter so I want other children of mine to literally me that we're away from home. All right so kids say who is missing in the picture. And what do you do that with us in the classroom. Well let's let's put it this way since our concern is race relations. Suppose I say my new girlfriend ought not to be there. I want him gone. What would we do. This would indicate that I'm

rejecting the individual that is a great social distance placing between your student now you're all playing again right. I thought it was for real. Well you're a student you're saying a negro should not be here. Yes when you say that I get to line up for the place like you just like to say I don't want him on him and I will get to the end of the line. So what do we do in the classroom. It was at the end of a list. Yeah I think one would say yeah why do you feel he belongs at the end of the line. Why then the answer would be that's where he's always that's what I've always seen him at the back of the bus. Yes. What else do I know you have thirty children. Or twenty children. Alright then why has he been at the back of the bus over the over the years. How did you get to the back of the bus I'm thinking Dr. Graham's position now. Yes well I'm just saying that it seems to me very hopeful and very optimistic if we think that we can through the cognitive process come around and change the behavior. No but I think you're using failing here to lead to the Carcassi process you know which comes

with with thinking the thing through we're getting reasons right. You're feeling it. Now we take the example you said the negro is at the end of the line I have some feeling as a student as to why he should be at the end of that he's going to be at the end of the line all right but you just said that the negro should be at the end of the line because he always has NO NO NO I DIDn't SAY THAT. I just used this I was in a sense a role played so yes but my experience has been that the nigger youngsters always get at the back of the bus. And this is my experience and my knowledge of this with the youngsters in the classroom and how do you cope with this. Well as I said I think you can cope with it by bringing it out and saying why examining why he has been at the back of the line what Jim Crow ism means why some people feel that negro should be at the back of the line. What is the history of the American Negro I think it's a hot stove or a springboard that can lead to a class discussion. I don't and I agree that Dr. Graham's technique is very stimulating but it's in the return not so sure. What I as a teacher that is very do with the

many many responses I can see the sense of distance scale and I can go through and I can see diagnostically So when the values would be diagnostic that you and I could find that Jimmy and Susie don't want anybody near them white red all of them or all black right. And I would say that she is an isolated she isolates herself from the whole community and how do you think that kind of community that this is wrong. Maybe she should feel isolated maybe she's going to do something of this isolation of hers is this good that these are some of the kinds of questions we do have to raise and we have to raise them. With our teachers teachers themselves have to say how do I feel about the kinds of children short of that I want in my classrooms and what are my goals in teaching them. I think was one of those who want to push. My love let her finish. I'm OK with that. But one of the. Problems in intergroup education is that we. Do not say give the right answer. And here is the right answer. Give it back. We have to go

through a long and involved and sometimes torturous process to let persons arrive at their own answer. And if we've helped them if we've supported them and said even when the answers were wrong the actual Right right answer should be at the end of the line in the back of the bus. This is what he's capable of learning at that moment when and I know that he needs some new experiences because this is not an appropriate response in order to gardening work right. First the times in which our country survives apart well then you assume that you can use a picture like this to lead into a discussion and to hopefully change some attitudes in the classroom experience but one thing that bothers me about these pictures is that how are they related to the instructional materials in the fourth or the fifth grade you don't see these kinds of pictures in many of the instructional materials you have today. The student has this little social studies book and that's nice and it says this is why we thought we had the one picture saying what is left out.

And I'm I must say in many of our textbooks we must with our youngsters say who is missing from this picture because we will be teaching in classrooms that are integrated. And the books will not have those children in the in the picture. So let's ask who is missing whom we have here and these are very important instructional additions that we have to make this discussion is not about stop concert. Yes. Let me say first of all I was saying that we have a stimulating situation that we do spin off a lot of ideas feelings. So this is a device. Secondly I think we recognize particularly with your use of the social rhetoric Goodchild that this is diagnostic that we can locate some youngsters with some precision who lets you have a long distance between them to set up a great distance between themselves and other youngsters who might have certain characteristics so there is a diagnostic value. Could we go

a next step in terms of doing something more beyond the diagnostic. Let's let's let's look at some more pictures. We've looked at some sequences of pictures the last ones we saw that had. Certain kinds of differences. These were differences that make a difference. A handicapped person is certainly someone who needs our special help and attention. We need to ask what the other differences were. And do they make a difference. And why do they make a difference and indeed should they make a difference. Let's see a few more pictures just to see the variety of experiences of perhaps those that we can provide by the. Rather simple medium of a flat picture. What made him angry. Well what makes you angry. Why. Why should

crime. Well of course she cried. What is she doing. If she's crying why what. What makes you cry. What is what is she doing. What is she thinking about. Is she daydreaming. When you day dream What do you daydream about. And for every one of these pictures will get. An infinite variety of responses and will vary with the children and the youth that we're teaching it will vary with the subject of the picture that we use boys do not have. I respond very well to some kinds of scenes that the girls may react to that one of the girls day dreaming would not be VERY says. The kind we would expect boys to respond to without ij. The girls who I think would do quite well

fact we have a good bit of evidence that they do and the girls however will respond to situations in which boys may be the problem and person. We don't know quite why. Age Of course we do know makes a difference the pictures that we use need to be appropriate to the children we are teaching and the kind of class we have. Sometimes we use pictures because they show people who are different in a different and other different kind of dimension. These are children from different cultures. Who are I say. What are they doing. How are they like you. How are they different from you. Are the schools there in. Like our schools. For the games they're playing like our games. The things they learning are things that we would be learning.

And there we get in the whole a range of cultural differences around the world. We've seen another. Sequence of pictures and now where are we. You know where I find this stimulating. I'm not so sure I have many answers. Sure have a good many questions. Well if I stimulating about your approach here is that it concerns itself with irritation to deviance a patient. Yes yes good for a phone I wish you'd explain it for us. Well what do you mean you stay with me. I'm with you I'm with you. The fact is you know I have an irritation deviancy scale for beach behavior in terms of what kind of behavior irritates you so much that you will one stop ignoring it too. So in the end struck the beach arrestor that's the correct type picture. Well it was

the same Mr. Gibson. There was such a scale. Oh I'd like to relate it to the pictures. I can easily do this in the sense that I can have all kinds of pictures you have pictures of youngsters who were injured or crippled youngsters who were of various skin and various cultures. Now in a pluralistic society I would assume that the great American public school system of the American classroom tended eventually in its output to preserve to prepare people who had a lot of tolerance for deviancy and this is a very important aspect and you have a device to get at because our experience tells us that our children have not much tolerance for differences are confused by our get conflicting messages about adults who have not grown up right. Yes but of course I got a different message from some of those after you said why she crying and I thought she was taking something out of her eye and higher education.

Thank you thank you very limited. This of course is I guess the fun part of this is the literal personal literal You never know your way through it I said Little Noah she said. Why is he doing this and why is he doing that and I want to know whether the teacher and putting up a picture should say this. Why is he crying. Why he's the angry one the perception of the picture itself can lead the student to far different results and which is that which is an excellent question and a good one. Educationally because instead of saying as I did maybe I was reading what I saw in the picture just as you said what do you see in the picture. These are projected devices I would say so how do we know. Well I'm repressed because you're repressing me. I don't I don't think the teacher should repress this. I think these are wonderful devices and I'm not a tremendously good point here because in the sense I was directing them to identify particular emotion I probably should have said what do you see in this picture and you will know the point was I want to make sure I have it that the teacher does not necessarily put it in the students minds. What the teacher has

in her mind and sort of saying. Is the why is he angry you say what is happening here. I want to pursue this point of time because this is a projection to some extent with some structured material. When the teacher gets 30 different responses including her own Dr. Gibson which I don't find these your project is very interesting to talk. Let's see if I got this right a repertoire of differences. I would like to have a protocol by which to analyze them and calling them out would you suggest something in the way of a protocol you suggested for example that the boys react differently from girls and maybe there are age differences I don't know what value of these are because as we pointed out in your session boys and girls do a lot of things together in the classroom and this may not be such an important difference with me maybe. But what are the suggested techniques for analyzing some of the different with the wide variety of responses that you would get that would be German or in the educational process.

You're us he won the big questions in education for which we have you have a nearly a few leaves but well no but I think this is in the whole area of teacher education a real task before us because if you are going to use these pictures in the classroom you have to know how to analyze responses and I have one more coming up on you and I were discussing about the Rorschach test and if you know any psychologist takes a long time to examine what comes out of this and therefore what is a teacher going to do with the responses that they still get around the fact that not one of the things that we have actually had relatively little experience with using these kinds of things we we find this a very touchy subject. This is why we don't know very much about it that is how we feel about it placed on teachers in two sessions. Well I think we're suggesting that there are many problems in talking about how we are as human beings. I mean we get to the matter of teacher training that Dr. Gibson suggest how much training would a teacher need to go beyond the two sessions that we will spend on these devices. Is there enough data other enough data

to enable the teacher to play with some validity and some reliability. I can think of how a kid could be shaken up in the classroom for instance if our teacher Mr. phone hello we haven't answered his question. Well I doubt we're getting the answer we have a discussion period coming up after the session. You know when you have an answer for the question well I have my my answer is we have no data. Well yeah we have like that in the absence of data. There might be some problems but still I think they are hard to get a discussion going this with you know the main thing the teacher would have to do just a minute Doctor. The main thing a teacher would have to do is to relate the responses to other instructional materials that are being used in the school curriculum. But I think for many of which this is one of the things that we're going to look at in the next presentation that I will be making and I certainly hope that this is one of the things that now you may have the floor. We're going to have a chance to discuss this with a group of teachers before your second presentation and I think it would be rather important to get

teachers who have tried this and who have had some experience in the classroom and who may have some ideas as to why they would start. To prod and stimulate with these in connection with the issue that you raise which you know does this is real is really the answer to your question. Because research is not very much help in this field. We have some and we will be listing the these in our syllabus and that of the other fees that the teachers will have. But we don't have a formula for human relations who want to make a statement to a group before we leave. I would like to. In a sense summarize what we have seen in this presentation. A few of the ways in which teachers can help create situations in which children experience what it means to be in or out. The sources from which we obtain their pictures are provided in your syllabus. The next part we will look at somewhat more complex and dramatic ways in which and education can be

encouraged.