Say Brother; Balancing the Budgets on the Backs of Kids?; 2002

Many educators are calling this an acid test year for the Boston Public School System. Now for the first time since 1974 some students are being assigned to schools of their choice in the school system is also in the process of implementing its school based management policy an endeavor that will undoubtedly be costly but one that many say can only help. However in the midst of state and city financial woes the inherent budget cuts one worries just how effective the school system can be as it makes its own economic sacrifices. The departments cuts are seen as only hurting the city's school students and everyone is asking are we balancing the budget on the backs of our children. Here with us tonight to discuss these issues as a studio audience made up of educators concerned parents vanished raters students along with a panel joined by Doris handy Brown a welcome addition to us a brother staff who's been covering the story for us stores. Elliot thank you as you recall this past summer parents teachers and students were bombarded at every turn as they prepared for this year's opening day of school. Weeks and days before the start of classes newspaper headlines gave very little indication that our schools were about the business of

education. Seemingly Boston public schools are entering the decade of the 90s in a tailspin and the ones paying the highest premium appear to be the students. I think definitely this year more than any of the year the budget has been balanced on the back of the kids because they've taken away some instructional materials they've taken away the tutoring and remediation programs leave restall points now when it is just no more that you can take. You know from the kids. This year now to. Oh man. Taken on a school. Field trip. To Nowhere where buses were provided this year I was told that. I don't know what trips I'm going to vote for and I'm going you know nothing on expenses is a money issue. They have not thought of the children how it was going to affect their education. They're learning this year. But money is not the only issue this year. This marks the first time in 15 years that courts have not

determined where students will be going to school. Boston public schools implemented the first phase of a new student assignment plan. Only kindergarten first and sixth graders are affected this year. The rest of the system comes under the plan next year. It's called a controlled choice plan and now parents have some say in where their children will attend a school. The city has been divided into three racially balanced zones and parents are allowed to list their choices within their assigned zone because of a requirement to keep the schools racially balanced. Not everyone gets their first choice. I think the hope is that the controller Troy's plan will improve education in the Boston Public Schools and it also might go to that it will bring back or the students that are lost. We were a system that had 95000 kids that more than qualified for a few years ago and we're now down to fifty seven thousand kids. The improvement in education has to come from competition among the schools. Already schools within

given zones are featured in information booklets offering what each school considers highlights of its program be it high test scores special tutoring programs or at best work programs. Paul out of this new choice plan is that if you don't get the number of kids into your school that's needed then you're going to be given a certain time to try to recruit and if you don't it's like your school Iscar that's the challenge I think Congress give as a first year principal of the David Ellis Elementary School in Roxbury for the most part the school year got off to a smooth start at the school despite the fact that the principal was still interviewing teachers on the first day of classes and there was at least one teacher who already been hired but had no class assignment a problem citywide due to the fact that there was a last minute court fight over whether a plan to consolidate our close nine schools would be allowed to go into effect. It was and there was also the down to the wire decision over whether or not the bus drivers would go on strike. They did not. Despite the problems the superintendents by the opening day of school

visiting classrooms. The Boston Public Schools don't get as much credit for positive things as we would need to. We are reading scores continue to go up a mass chorus continue to go up. The dropout rate is going down on a yearly basis. Our suspension rates are going down. Attendance is going up on urban school system what else would you want to kill like you have two children in the Boston school system what do you think what more could you want. Books I've been convinced for a long time that we live in a non industrialized country because like I couldn't understand why the children don't have books why adequate homework assignments in the seventh and the ninth grade respectively. And the most important thing I think that we could bring to the school system at this point would be an informed injection of massive injection of parents that could better monitor and has a paid in the system. OK let me move on absolutely books a school system that doesn't have books and has the mimeographed copies out of the textbooks that they do have and where you know if you're seeing a result Boston what do you

say. What could be changed. I think that the balun look at Virgin students need more teaches need more help because has English as a Second Language is very hard for the bad English students. So I think that they need more teachers to help them to learn was very good point. Bilingual program that was just split up in the school and there's a lot of controversy going on around that. Thomas taught you're the director of the U.S. programs out of Madison Park High School. What do you think. Is that enough. Can more be done. I believe that more can be done. I think we need parents taking an active role in the day to day operations of the school and that's how we will be more effective. OK there you have it a short survey of some of the people here who live it every day in the Boston Public School System. Maybe our guests have some answers to learn at least a part of some of the question if they should joining us on the panel here is the superintendent of Boston public schools the man who runs the Boston Public School System Dr. Laval Wilson and the state commissioner of education Dr. Harold Reynolds. My first question will go to you Dr. Wilson because you can't do too much about the parents except to

provide the leadership that will inspire them and make them think that something is going to happen if they get involved in this system. But what about the issue of resources we read about parents who were upset because they'd like to see textbooks they'd like to go over homework with their students if they're getting xerox copies and sometimes the students all get the xerox copies because they're out of that. Well let me try to put a little bit of this into focus. I'm an advocate for the Boston Public Schools for the students for the parents for the teachers for the programs. We need more resources there's no question about that. I met with our elementary school principals all 76 of them yesterday. And the question of adequacy of textbooks did not come up as a part of our discussion it did come from a parent sitting there in the audience I ended yesterday in the stands yet what more do you want rather than just a parent. And at our school committee meeting one of our school committee members raise a question about a particular school. We are asking our zone superintendents to canvass each principal.

There are books in every school. There could have been one or two schools where orders did not come through appropriately. And I know of one incident whereby. Textbook orders were not fulfilled for math as desired. Many of the schools many of the principals and teachers don't send books home every night because they don't get returned so they will send home Xerox materials they will send home sheets to practice with. That does not mean that there are not adequate. Reading math science and social studies books within the schools. Clearly we could use more. My recommended budget to the school committee was three hundred and ninety three million. What the city provided for us was three hundred sixty two million. But we are living in a time of fiscal crisis line. Right now I'd like to address this question to Dr. Reynolds. Given what's happening statewide given the resources that are available for all programs throughout the state how much of the state's budget woes how much of an impact will that have on public education particularly public education in Boston having a very serious and very

negative effect. The legislature in failing to. Live up to the responsibility laid on it by the governor when he presented his budget has led to us having a budget one billion two hundred million dollars less than the governor proposed. That hurts. There are teachers out of work. There are children not getting the programs all across the state. You don't see it getting any more resources of books to help superintendent Wilson meet this parents request any time soon. Not what you're say if you're depending on the state to provide them. No the question is will the city provide them. And are there other ways to use the money that the school department has which would provide for the books. We have with us here in the audience among a number of people Reverend James Dyson who's the candidate for the school committee and I'm sure you have a number of concerns. As a man who's looking to be part of the system that will be trying to run the Boston public schools. Correct. Parents have expressed to me personally they're disenfranchised. Gys men not being empowered by the school committee

or the school administration they feel dissatisfied and disappointed my sport specific question addresses the issue of the dropout rate. If we look around our neighborhoods be it Roxbury Dorchester man a piano South Boston we see 13 14 and 50 year old hers playing basketball during school hours. What specific strategies does the school committee or the school administration have in decreasing the 39 percent dropout rate in our community. Good question. Dr. Wilson to some degree the numbers of the dropout rates have been inflated. On an annual basis the numbers used to be four years ago about 17 and a half percent on an annual basis of youngsters dropping out. That's down now to about thirteen point three or four percent so we have made some good progress in reducing the dropouts. There

are young people out of school that need to be in school. We need to have more attention given to youth workers going out trying to help retrieve young people more attendance workers or alternative programs. We instituted three years ago a collaborative program with the mare to make sure that young people who are out of school could get GEDs that's the equivalency diploma and also to make sure that young people who want to go into an alternative program rather than a regular high school or middle school could do that. So there are some programs in place to provide that type of help for young people who are presently out. But to bring young people off the streets we do need more individuals who can go out and make sure that those youngsters are in school and not out playing basketball. OK. Stand stand again. Dr. Wilson did you make a proposal to the school committee this year that they allocate appropriate funding for outreach workers. We have in our budget two million dollars for alternative types of drop out programs in collaboration with the city the city's

Community Schools program and the school system collaborate on a 2 million dollar budget. It is in our budget. One million of that is for the city to use as a part of youth workers and alternative programs. And the other million is in our cluster high school program such as compact ventures and other types of counseling help. Yes that is in our budget it's been on our budget for three years and we have had an impact on the young people who are out of school. Given the fact that the dropout rate continues to go down on a yearly basis. We have another question another question here from a between a member to Stanford Stanford please. I would answer that really a question in saying that. What would we want for our schools is what we probably want for the larger society and that's an investment in our major product our children. To the extent that we disinvest in their development is extend to which this country will fail

five 10 15 years down the line. If this school system had in place a library with librarians in every school had music lessons in every school had our teachers had physical education teachers had the resources that schools that surround Boston used to have and sometimes still does have we'd see a vast difference. We need a budget of close to 400 million dollars to even begin to address what people want in the system and that's why I feel choosing to good schools out of 10 does not address the needs of improving the other 8 schools. Character makes a good point makes a good point. One simple question of money. So it's clear that the public school system in Boston does not have the capacity by the laws of the state in the city to raise the money that it's needed to run a first class system in comparison to what parents want. Parents want more books we want more books a school committee in the

soup and in the staff. We want better facilities but the money is not there it's given to us by the city mayor. Parents also question the way you are using the money the resources that you do have a student raised a very valid question a little while ago Cape Verdean student at South Boston High School. I want to say why is the program in South Boston. It was working well in Madison Park Why was it split wide let me have so that let me answer that in two ways. Over 76 percent of the school system's budget and every school system's budget is tied up into personnel. The teachers the support staff we've heard that there was a bloated administration. We cut over three million dollars out initially administration another million after that. The concept of consolidating and closing schools has been one of my top agenda items for a number of years. We were able to consolidate and close schools which assisted us in not having to make 2 million 16 additional program matic cuts for young people and on the basis of making sure that we did consolidate through excess space. We moved some programs

to other sites the Cape Verdean program was on the Madison Park campus. The young people in the Madison Park campus who are in the general education program were sent to other schools. I understand that some of the young people in Madison Park would like to stay there. That was not possible. We moved them to a different campus. We continue to provide I think a pretty extensive bilingual program. We have a pretty extensive bilingual program for a number of different languages. Commissioner Randall were second and just just get a reaction from men Wilkins always was with the Cape Verdean community here in Boston some reaction from you about some of the effects that the breakdown this bilingual program is called. It's to me it's a very negative faffing effect. I've been in the system for 12 13 years and been fighting all these years through bilingual education in Boston now swear. And John McGuire knows that. The problem we divide in a group like us you know we have two programs now. And

in terms of money and where we spend more money we need teachers at Madison Park and we need teachers a high more than we needed as one program. So to me it's more money we are wasting more money and those who can stances. Now the problem with even myself as a guidance counselor I go to schools and I have two different seniors in different schools. And how can I help them you know in a way that a guidance counselor should help them. Well let me ask what about it. It has the restructuring is the restructuring is it possible that we're going to spend more money doing that than we would have had we left it the way it was or or get it in a different way. I don't think so then. The issue on the Cape Verdean bilingual program. Was that the young people at the Humphrey School now are there for vocational programs only. Not general comprehensive programs as you have at South Boston High Park Dorchester there for the

youngsters who stayed on this campus besides the 12th graders had to make a commitment to take part in vocational programs. Those young people in this program who are not in the vocational program where those transferred to South Boston for the Cape Verdean program bilingual program there. I'm sorry to say that there was never ever creation of a vocation a percentage that never know what we were told. Beginning September well before September in August that there was a caveat in buying the program at Madison Park evocation Bollinger program and students what you know I think didn't stray as I'm sorry to see that. But they lied to the Jews who sent the parents there was no program there was not such a program. Considering I could read about it I think that needs to be corrected. Could you please. There was a Cape Verdean program at the Madison Park campus when the Madison Park general population of students the same type of program young people could receive at all of our general high schools was taken off the Madison Park campus.

We made a commitment that the 12 grade youngsters could stay and graduate. We also said that we were going to move totally the Cape Verdean program to another school. It was placed at South Boston High. We said the only young people who could stay on the Madison Park campus the Humphrey campus now was those who would be interested in taking part in a vocational program. So the choice was left to the students. If you stay at the Humphrey center you must take part in the vocational program. If you don't want to take part in the vocational program you may go to South Boston High or the rest of the Cape Verdean bilingual program will go totally. That was a decision that had to be made by the students either vocational program or you would go with the Cape Verdean program to South Boston just of course we're going to snoring or they would like to get on to a couple of other topics before we go on with that. The time is getting short commissioner Reynolds is sitting there and he's smiling I'm not quite sure at what about How can you justify holding up money to the Boston Public School system given the cries that the system is facing right

now. We're sure we certainly would never know what you are doing that we are holding back now one million dollars of federal money for special needs because the court case vs. McDonogh case places certain requirements on the US on the Boston school department. They're not being met at the present time. We're in the process of holding a hearing to see whether or not that money should be released. We're not in the business however of trying to withhold money from any school system if it would help the children in any way. OK you have been critical critical of the Boston Public Schools where you were critical of the management the school committee when you considered it one of the most poorly administered in the system. What are you talking about and why would you in your role as State Commissioner of Education take such an adversarial position. I've been in Massachusetts for three and one half years each year of the four years that school opened there was a threat of a strike in Boston

this year on the Friday before. Let's begin. A good school department has every assignment made teachers knowing who the students will be and all of the locations cleared up before the children leave school in the spring. The Friday when I was asked that question and I did explode there was no question there was a strike pending. And on the morning the school opened there were still parents who did not know whether the schools would be open and whether the buses would run. That was my problem on Friday. Compound it by the fact that only a very few days before because of confusion over whether or not certain schools could be closed. A court decision dislocated to not let me just finish two days two weeks before I decided which schools would be open and the third issue. And I met with most of the summer on it was would the choice plan be in place. And there were days even in August where the thing was in such chaos that there was no

certainty. Now the celebration and we should celebrate good things. The actual opening came off. There was no strike but it doesn't change the fact. That these kinds of concerns are at the root of a well managed school system. I'd like to make sure that the superintendent has a chance to respond. I responded to Commissioner rhinos and you can write it. Number one I don't think I want to get into a major debate any differences I have with the commissioner. I share with him his concerns but I share my concerns with him in writing. I will discuss those issues with him privately. I don't think it's the appropriate forum here to get into a big debate. But I did take exception to the commissioner. Flying off the handle or saying anything about the Boston Public Schools I don't think it's the role of a commission of any state to get involved in the internal operations of the school system especially in Massachusetts where there has been historically a hands off policy. The issue of the commission has to be supportive and not to try to step in and run the school. Clearly the

schools open smoothly everyone predicted chaos. Those of us who are responsible for running the schools didn't think that was going to be chaos What was it but I can I can I just interrupt for a second although it did operate smoothly. I mean we find even even today we have problems some of the problems with students being assigned to courses why. Why is it not getting at the expect. And shouldn't expect Why not. Why can't you know why shouldn't we all just a second OK let me finish OK. You raised the question I deserve to have a chance to answer but I think we should expect that it could work as well as Plus make sure I get ahead let me try to take that in context. Sure. Seattle Washington. Has a plan similar to ours put forth by the same two consultants who helped us. They had a whole year to conceptualize it. They had a whole year to plan it and they had a third year to implement it. We had five months from the date that the school committee approved it to plan it totally to put it into effect totally to inform the parents totally in English and in ten other

languages and to make sure it worked smoothly. Clearly we had the possibility of a strike. We have been trying to close schools for a number of years. I take the school closing decisions whenever it will come. I would love to be able to notify parents and kids and teachers where they're going to be in September. The fact of the matter is that we had a court challenge and we were up held eventually through the court of appeals. Secondly we frequently we have 17 different bargaining groups. The bus drivers in this city like to strike they didn't strike the bus drives like this so I still think their insight and summary basically it was not enough time to put into a lot of what you would like to a year year and a half two years to plan our plan we had five months. Point well taken. Why the ones I wanted in this year though. Well the I mean there was a recommendation I get it put on and least a year came from the city the mayor originally hired the two consultants the two

consultants at that particular point recommended to the city to the mayor and the school committee and we put it into effect and we took the plan given to us all the monumental. Obstacles for any plan. The city should be concerned and the parent should be concerned but it would probably get what it went off pretty well. It's doing as well as rich as can be expected I would I know I would has a limited no question about OK hold on we have another reaction here you know. I had a mechanic. OK have you very quickly. I just like to say that things can be running a lot smoother than they are running but I also agree the fact that time is very important and we didn't have the time. But most of all I like to say the biggest problem with the school system is that we are not able of the school departments not able to first come up with the programs and things that are needed and then determine how much money it takes to do that. And that's very important you can't give people money and insane. Do the best that you can with it you have to first plan and say

what it is that's going to be distributed to everybody and then how that's going to work. And we don't have that and I think that as long as we don't have it we're going to continue to have these types of problems. We can raise the money we need for our programs will be helpful to plan a program. And to have the educational resources then to put them into effect. That didn't happen this year and hasn't happened in a number of years. Commissioner Reynolds your feelings about talk of having an appointed school committee there's going to be a referendum question nonbinding on the ballot. How do you feel about that appointed school committee rather than a representative one. I always favor having worked for both ends and elected school committee. But if a management problem persists over a period of time and a school committee is part of the management problem then always we ought to be looking at alternatives. I hope that an elected school committee coming up will be able to deal with the problems that we've just been talking about and which there's no doubt we all agree about

we can identify them. It would be very a very happy outcome whether elected or appointed that the kind of cohesive effort necessary to produce a first rate urban school could be developed because if you kill a system it's on its way given the information the superintendent offered at the top of the show you understand that test scores our test scores are up but in a very minor way the reduction in dropouts is better. But we're still talking about some 40 percent of the children on the street. There is additional information. Let let me use another city's example in Lawrence. One out of every two students of high school age are on the streets every day. And the school does not know the names of half of those that are out and I suspect that that's a very similar pattern in every urban owner. I don't I don't believe. That going from only two grade levels in one thousand eighty six to nine grade levels in 1988. Where are those great levels of ad above the

50th percentile in reading as a minor and she quickly I think that that is a major achievement for an urban school system such as Boston. OK quickly one more comment. With an elected school committee we run on money we don't have enough money to do the job. And Commissioner if you could could you get the rate setting commission for that special education problem to set their rates before we set up budget rather than several months into the budget year. That's a legal question and by ya by a lot of present time the rate setting commission dates have been changed. So I think you'll find that you have those figures earlier but they're a tiny part of your total budget. And we we spend we spend 95 million dollars on special ads and it will be very hard. To find that. The rate setting commission is able to either make sure that we have adequate resources or if the state.