Say Brother; Black Politicians

Brother is a program by, and for, and about the black community. [airplane] The word "politics" seems to automatically alienate most folks in the black community. They cast an eye of suspicion on politicians and their business. Yet this is no excuse for being ignorant of who represents us, and what their views are concerning the issues that affect the black community in general. Most of us could probably name several nationally known black politicians, But perhaps are unaware of who represents us on the city and state level. More importantly, we are not as up on who belongs to what political party and where they stand on various issues. And then there's that continuous complaint that a lot of folks never see or hear from the politicians they elect until election time comes around again. Tonight, Say Brother will

speak with members of the Massachusetts Black Caucus, Black Republican representatives in the Boston area, as well as several nationally known black politicians, and examine in-depth where the black politician has been and where they are now ?living?. "[Host]: Congresswoman Chisholm, what is your impression of the Congress since you've been here?" "[Shirley Chisholm]: My impression of the Congress is that the Congress is attempting, in a very slow fashion, to try to drag itself out of some of this- the traditional leftergy and the traditional way of coping with national problems that affect the lives of all the American people. It is still very much steeped in tradition and finds itself almost immobile and paralyzed at times in terms of dealing effectively and relevantly with the problems that confront the people that live in the 1970s. And that is due in a large part to the traditional systems of running the United States Congress, the

seniority system, the committee system. And many of these systems that have not been taken apart objectively in a long time to discuss whether or not they can cope in a relevant fashion with the problems and the issues that confront us today. It is trying to reform itself, but it is a very s- tedious and a very long process." "[Host]: Is Congress a vehicle that you thi- progress of black people?" "[Shirley Chisholm]: Well, it is the only vehicle that black people have, presently, if you want to speak about legislative, uh material that will benefit the black people in this country. Since we are only approximately 14 percent of the population, and we do not actually control the sources of power in terms of the economic and the financial sources, we have to establish coalition and alliances with other groups in this country, and one of the coalitions that we as legislators on the national scene must establish would be to work - er - in conjunction with those liberal legislators in the United States Congress to bring about legislation that would affect the lives of black people. It is not the only vehicle, of course, but it is one of the prime vehicles that's

open to us today." "[Host]: And what directions do you think black people should move over the next few years?" "[Shirley Chisholm]: We are very good on rhetoric, we are very good on outer manifestations of behavior. Very good on superficialities. But we now need to develop a depth and a breadth, an understanding of the nature of power that is preventing us from moving on in this country. And that has to bring into play the realization that although all of us may be black, coming from the same background, that there will be differences of opinion, there will be differences of approach, and we shouldn't badger each other over the head because you don't follow my doctrine, and I don't follow your doctrine. There's a bigger common enemy in this country against us as an ethnic [group]." "[Host]: Are you gonna run for president again?" "[Shirley Chisholm]: No, I don't intend to run for president again because well, the- the greatest drawback, of course, will be the question of money. I cannot run again because I don't have the money. If I had the money, I would make a bid again, and there're many people that are asking me to consider it but I- I achieved what I set out to do.

I set out to show that when any black or any woman in the future desires to make a bid for the presidency of this nation, that they will not have to spend five or six months on the defensive. The only thing that will be important is that they meet the constitutional requirements. I went to the end. Although many people didn't think I would, because I had to prove that we are going to be very serious in the future with anybody else out there who's a black person or a woman saying that they should be the president of this country." "[Host]: Do you have any advice on black male-black female relationships?" "[Shirley Chisholm]: What the black race need- what black people need is the collective talents, and abilities, and attributes of homo sapiens of the black group, of whom some are men and some are women, to collectively use this to help our people, to push our people, and to eventually serve as images and idols. Black women need black female models. Black men and black boys need black male models. We have

all very, very important roles to play. Black women do not keep back black men. We are both victims of a historical circumstance in this country that call black women to move out, and be assertive, and dominant during the years that our men were not able to be there because of what this country did to our men. And now I don't think it should be expected of us that we should put all that we have learned on the shelves. We should march together like soldiers in a field of battle, side by side. Those of us who've got it. Those of us to whom the- the- the Almighty God has given us the talent, so long as we are working for the amelioration of people. And I hope that black men and black women will get it together." "[Host]: We're here did today with some members of the Republican Party. I'd like introduce those people first. Nathaniel Stevens [Stevens: "Mm."] on the end. Next to me ?Lynn? Riley.

And in the middle, Jackie Robinson. [Robinson: "Mhmm."] Right on. Most black people feel an allegiance, uh, to the Democratic Party. And that party initiated most of the civil rights and social programs of the '60s. They see the Democrats as more receptive to their needs. What are your feelings as a black Republican concerning the party's representation of us, meaning Black people?" "[Robinson]: Basically, Topper, prior to 1934, most blacks in this country were all Republicans. That might surprise a lot of people. During the Franklin Delano Roosevelt administration when you came in with the "chicken in every pot" philosophy in the WPA. Then blacks began to gradually go from the Republican Party and into the Democratic Party. I think that throughout the history of- of blacks in this country, we have basically followed some singular kinds of philosophies. One of the most important things that

black people can do is to make sure that we have some kind of input on both of the major parties of this country and not all- have all of our apples in one bag or another. To make sure that we have the kind of input, both on the Democratic side and, most importantly of all, also on the Republican side because that represents- that particular party represents 50 percent of the political philosophies in this country. We must have adequate representation in both sides of the ledger." "[Host]: I'd be curious to- to know if there's any particular reason why each of you happened to be in the Republican Party. I mean, if I were- think about my political leanings, I guess I could think about why I would belong to one party or another. But I was, I j- I'm just curious to know. Historical reasons, personal reasons, whatever." "[Riley]: Well, I think my reason is because I see a great need for awareness in our community, and I feel that because our system of government is politics, I think that we need to be represented as good negotiators with both parties, and I think heretofore, we have not had that. And I

myself was a Democrat and decided to become a Republican on those bases alone. And I feel that any one of us as Blacks in the Republican Party would certainly not be there because of its philosophy. But more so for their support and the need of the people, and that is why I am a Republican—because I feel the need for that representation on that level. "[Host]: Mr. Stevens." "[Stevens]: And certainly in our state, the governors have- have done more for the forgotten minority with the minority than Democrats have. We been in virtual slavery in this, in this state with the -- with that party for many years, and they've, they've been dragging their feet." "[Host]: You're talking about the Democrats." "[Stevens]: In my party." "[Host]: Right. So, that's your reason why." "[Stevens]: That's my reason." "[Host]: Mr. Robinson." "[Robinson]: Basically, my reason, Topper, is that I sort of echo the sentiments of my colleagues here. And that for too long, blacks have been always programmed to follow a certain

philosophy. We're all born Baptist, and we are supposed to stay Baptist throughout- We are supposed to be charted and directed to go into certain economic and employment goals, and these are traditional things for blacks. And you hearin' politics saying, "That's the black position, and that's the black position." It appears as though certain people are setting out the kind of direction we're going to go. And theoretically, most of our leaders in this country have led us all en masse into one party or another, and we have followed blindly without thinking. We've sacrificed our individual prerogatives and our individual initiatives to follow the goals and directions of some individual. Too often, this is a very dangerous kind of a situation because in many cases, every four years, the- the political parties of this country change, and we're in one bed or another. We then lose that kind of input and- and direction for a period of four years until the party that we're allied with come back and into power again. My reason: I was a Democrat, and I changed from Democrat to Republican.

I looked at the local situation, I looked at the international situation, and I felt that actually the Republican Party had done more for blacks, not only in this state but also nationally than the Democratic Party had done. And this is the basis of my reasons for changi-" "[Host]: What- could you, uh, illustrate some of the things that you think they've done- the Republican Party, that is, has done for black folks?" "[Robinson]: Here in Massachusetts, the- the most important thing on the Massachusetts scene politically for blacks at the present time is the upcoming new black senatorial district in the black community. And if you would look at the record during the time when the- the Black Caucus was- was fighting very valiantly to get this seat, that it was simply the Republican leadership of this state that allowed the Black Caucus to keep alive the hopes and dreams of people in our community to get a black senatorial district. And- not only was it the- the Republicans in the Senate and also the Republicans in the house, but most important of all, that Republican governor who stood up for

the rights of blacks to have a senatorial district for the first time in this state. And I think those are some plaudits that- that should not go unsaid. And it was done not because of the tremendous amount of ?unclear? that we have with the Democrats. Because they were trying to delineate and to diffuse this move. But it was basically and primarily because of the Republican efforts in the House, in the Senate, and also in the governor's office that made this black senatorial district a reality. They were the only and most- mostly the only allies that the Black Caucus had in our local scene. "[Host]: I'd like to- oh, excuse me, go ahead." "[Riley]: I think too, we can add too that it was not done under pressure, but under the present Republican administration, we can be very proud of the many black commissioners that we have on a state level. And that's Commissioner- Commissioner Glendora Putma- Putnam, commissioner ?Menton?. And, you know, we just have a lot of key black people in key jobs, rather, leaders. And I think that that's attributed to the president's administration.

"[Host]: OK. I'd like to, uh, open, uh, the discussion up to questions from the floor. And would people, uh, state their name and their question?" "[Audience member]: Hello, my name is Richard Ellis. I am a former city council candidate. I ran as an independent. And, uh, election in the black community. I understand that Roy ?inaudible? Sr., a Democrat, has decided to run. And I'd like to know if the Republicans are going to field a candidate. And with the scandals that have- that have rocked the Republican Party nationally, I'd like to- to know if you seriously think a- a Republican could win with the backlash that it has against it?" "[Riley]: May I respond?" "[Host]: Yeah." "[Riley]: [clears throat] Well, I would hope that because we are black and because we would support a black Republican, that not any black would tie us with the present administration that is the Nixon administration. And I hope that you will feel that any of us who might

run on a Republican ticket would have the sole interest of that black community rather than the Republican Party." "[Stevens]: I'd also like to comment, in that I think a sheer political fallacy and- and political folly to assume that- that we should only field one candidate. A very potent ?important and? danger faces us in that Black senatorial district. That is that there are- if there are 7 or 8 or possibly 10 Black Democratic senatorial candidates, and 1 member of another race enters that particular race in that senatorial district, and he should happen to win and be the Democratic contender on the Democratic side, then we're gonna have a very serious problem, because then everyone will have to vote for that candidate if there is no Republican candidacy. I'd like to say this to you, that in answer to your question as to whether or not there'll be any Republican candidates for the senatorial seats, I'd like to say most emphatically there will be. And I hope that there'll probably be 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 Republican candidates. Because as we indicated earlier, it's important that Blacks should be

represented in both political parties. And simply because the person has a label Democrat or Republican, Baptist or Partisan, Catholic or Gentile, they still should have primarily, and most importantly of all, the interest of the progress of Black people as their primary aim, no matter what their political philosophies or directions are." "[Host]: Yeah. Question. Name and question. "[Richard Peters] Yes, my name is Richard Peters, system director of Cooper Community Center. Ah, we've been trying to set up various youth councils so that they can learn about economics and politics. And the way that the political arena is being attacked these days, I wonder if you all have any words of wisdom that you could share with us in terms of keeping youth interested in these areas." "[Riley]: I think that I'd like to respond. And, um, let you know that we as Republicans have taken that direction within the past 24 hours. And we do intend to approach you, because what we've felt was that the youth have not been approached in the past. And in

order to achieve our goals towards unity among our people, we do intend to come to you with the ideas that we do have, in that we respect youth as leaders of tomorrow." I'd also like to echo, uh, Lynn's statement in that it's important- the most important ingredient and commodity that we can possibly sell our people is unity. The Republican- Black Republicans in the state was solidly behind the Black Caucus and their fight for a senatorial district. And we should hope that if a Republican contender emerges in the Black community, that will adequately represent the wishes, desires, goals and aspirations of our people, that the Black Caucus will- and the Black people in that community will solidly embrace the concept that a black Republican can also give to that district. As far as youth are concerned, it is absolutely important, that's probably one of the most poignant questions that I've heard recently, and that is the fact that many politicians has overlooked the youth of this community. And it happens in the white community as well. I think

it's important that we begin to develop and instill within our youth the tremendous gains and goals that our youth can supply to the political system. And I think the question is absolutely correct, and I think that the Democrats as well as the Republicans are going to address themselves to that fact from now on." "[Host]: How responsive do you think Senator Brooke has been to the black community in Boston?" "[Robinson]: Well, Senator Brooke — and I hate to [Host: "Yeah..."] dominate this section, [Host: "Sure."] but Senator Brooke is not just a politician. Senator Brooke is a statesman. And he is a statesman for all people, for Black and for White, for Republicans, Independents and for Democrats. He has conducted himself in an admirable fashion. He is one of the few statesmen left in this country. And his problem is that, being Black, he has to represent all people. And sometimes in doing this, he has to take a position that's not necessarily popular to one side or another. But I think that Senator Brooke will go down in the history as an American statesman, and not as a Republican, a Democrat, or a Black man."

"[Host]: Another question, uh, I'd like to know how any one of you feel at this particular time about- about the Watergate and about Agnew. I think that's a very- a very controversial matter at this particular time. I'd like to have some response on that. Mr. Stevens?" "[Stevens]: This could have happened in any political party, Republican Party or Democratic Party. It's, it happens and, all the time, it's unfortunate that it moved like it did." "[Host]: Can you recall another time for me in history when a Vice President has resigned?" "[Robinson]: Calhoun." "[Host]: Mhmm. How long ago was that? I don't recall, what was that?" "[Stevens]: I think it was 1832, when Vice President Calhoun resigned." "[Host]: Was he a Democrat, Republican? I don't know." [Laughter] "[Stevens]: I think he was a Democrat." "[Riley]: I don't know this." "[Host]: Oh, was he? Was he? I really don't know. But I'm just curious about that, I don't want to skirt over that issue too lightly. I think- I mean is there certainly some crime involved, you know, to put it very

lightly? What do you think that- what impact will that have on the 1976 election? Do you have any thoughts about that?" "[Riley]: Do you mean locally, or..." "[Host]: Well, locally and nationally." "[Riley]: I myself would like to respond, as a Republican who might run in '74, and again I stay. I would hope that my people will not prejudge me by any deeds that the administration has committed. And in my stance, in wanting to restore confidence in our leaders and those who want to represent me, I feel as though, uh it should have long happened, as far as Agnew's resignation. I think that it has been the most deplorable situation in the history of this country, and I hope that we will never be subjected to again." "[Host]: Mhmm. Mhmm. Do you have, uh, this, the, you know, I hear political expediency as, as one reason

for your belonging to the Party—the fact that, uh, Black people should be relating to that party as well, since it is the other, you know, political force in this country. Do you have the same, uh, respect for that party at this particular time as a result of that scandal, I mean do you look at it in a different light?" "[Riley]: Well, I look at it in a different light." "[Host]: Ok." "Ok, the Party's concept, I take out one item, and that's conservatism towards effectiveness. And that's the way I'd like to serve the party and my people. I would rather think that, rather than serving the party, I'm serving the people under this administration, and I'm able to negotiate with them, and hopefully I will be that ?inaudible? person to..." "[Host]: I see. I see what you're saying. Jack?" "[Robinson]: My opinion, basically—and, and I'd like to shatter the myth and the concept that it was the Republican Party that was responsible for all the horrors of Watergate and the dirty tricks and all of the other things that came out of this past election campaign. The Republican Party was not a party to that partic-, to those actions. These were actions of a

contrived and done by individuals and small groups, the re-elect committee and other individuals who basically had some primarily personal individual gain, and it was not the object of the party, it was not the acts of the party. My idea and my impression of the party has not changed. I think the American people is seeing that also in the very same light. There are some people that violated their personal trust and violated their public trust to the American people, Democrats and Republican, Black and White. And I think that the American judicial system will in some way take care of those circumstances, as they have already started to do. I do not think that there can be a blanket judgment. We no more can sit in judgment on, and blanket an entire group of people, any more than many many years ago we as blacks in this country were also given stereotypical labels. That if we were Black, we were lazy, and we were shiftless, and we were unambitious, and there were many other myriad things that was given to us and labeled on us because we were Black. The same thing is applicable to the Republican Party. The Republican Party was not on trial,

the Republican Party did none of those things. It was simply the acts of individuals. And I as a person deplored those acts the same as the Republican Party deplores them, and the same as most Americans deplore them." "[Host]: OK. I want to thank all of you for coming today, I think it's important to share your point of view with us and with the audience, and with our bigger audience, our television audience. Thank you all for coming." "[All guests]: Thank you very much, thank you." [Different segment] "[Host]: We're here today with Representative Andrew Young, recently elected to Congress. Uh, like to know what influence Dr. King had on you." "Well there's no question that, uh, working with Martin Luther King for, I guess about eight years, the last eight years of his life was a tremendous influence on my life. He was -- the one thing he was so unselfishly concerned about -- what was good for mankind.

And he saw himself, I think, as having to give his life totally and completely to make life better for other people. I think you can't, you can't be around somebody like that - that long without some of that rubbing off on you." [Host] "What would Dr. King be like if he were alive today?" [Young] "Well I can see a couple of things: one is he was already moving very strongly into politics. Not that he would have been running for public office himself, but he would have been going around the country encouraging and assisting some of the people that are -- that are winning elections. I would think right now he'd be in Alabama. Because Alabama is about to elect probably more black elected officials in May than any other state in the union. They can elect 20 people to the state legislature in Alabama. And that's almost a fifth of the state legislature.

They need a lot of work, they need to register and vote, they need to get together and be organized a little bit. Incidentally Mrs. King was over in Alabama this Saturday. And I'll be going over with Julian Bond on the 24th of November. And this is just a political time. I think the kinds of things you see happening in Atlanta where we not only elected a black mayor, but we elected a black majority on the city council and a black majority on the school board. But in Detroit and Los Angeles, even Raleigh, which does not have a black majority, has elected a black mayor. So this is -- is a time of black politics. And I would think Dr. King would be very much about that. I would also think that one of the things he had scheduled just before his death was a trip to Africa. Because he was very much concerned about

the fact that blacks in this country tended to either over-exaggerate or deny their African heritage. But there were really no practical links. And I think he would have been about the business. [buzzer] That's -- I guess that's the buzzer that says the house is [inaudible] for the day. Yeah. If its three buzzes I have to go, if it's four that means it's all over. So it's all good. But I think Dr. King would have been establishing some direct ties. I think he would have had to been involved in the attempts to develop the Sahel region, to put an end to the famine there. But he also would have been involved in some way supporting the liberation struggles in Southern Africa, in Angola and Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau. And, uh,

I think that those concerns of his are certainly very much concerns of mine." [Host] "What's your impression of Congress since you've been here?" [Young] "Well frankly [Young] I didn't expect much. And I've been pleasantly surprised, I have found that everything that we've worked on we've been able to get something accomplished on. Now we haven't worked on a whole lot. But in terms of moving this system, it is possible to move it if you have the energy and the brains and -- and don't mind sticking with it." [Host] "Is it a vehicle that can contribute to progress of black people in this country?" [Young] "Well most of our progress has eventually come through Congress. Even the stuff that we started in the streets in Selma and in Birmingham had to come to Congress and fortunately Adam Powell was chairman of the Education and Labor Committee there and he got some 60 pieces of legislation through that was all of our poverty program legislation -- all of the model cities, all of the health care, the

day care. Just the whole social package of legislation. While we were demanding it from the streets it had to come from the Congress because Congress controls the money. So if we do get progress of any kind, eventually Congress is going to have to rubber-stamp it, but Congress only rubber-stamps what the people demand. Just as with impeachment now, Congress is not going to do any more than the people demand. And when the people quiet down, Congress will forget about it. So it's necessary to sustain a demand for anything you want. And if you sustain that demand and that demand is necessary for your survival and you stick with it, I think that the Congress is a perfect vehicle for change." [Host] "In what directions do you think black people should be moving over the next few years?" [Young] Well. It seems like people are

moving pretty well politically and economically. And moving much better politically than economically. I must say I was very disturbed, when I was in Boston, at the number of people that I bumped into when I was out campaigning with Hubie Jones. The number of people that I bumped into that said they were not registered voters. You know, we got a better voting percentage amongst blacks in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. You all got in Boston and you need to do something about that. That Louise Hicks is back in the council basically because folks don't vote. And, uh, If you don't vote, people who get in don't represent you. And so I would say that people have got to not only vote themselves, but they've got to see to it that their neighbors vote, and that neighborhood political organizations, which stay on the elected officials year in and year out. One believes a

little something goes wrong. My constituents write me. And they let me know if they want me to do something about that and that makes a difference. So I would say that staying in politics, not just at election time, but in between the elections, so that the school board issues, the City Council issues, the state issues, and the national issues, are something that people respond to, and, and get represented in. That's one thing. I would think that, I've got a new respect for the black businessman. Because while it's good to integrate jobs, and I believe in pushing job integration, when a black business opens up and hires 20 people, by and large that's 20 black jobs in the black community. And we might fight like I don't know what to get 20 jobs

in a white owned and operated establishment. So I would encourage participation in the business enterprise in our community. And whenever you can do something, well, you know, a dollar circulates, uh, in the white community. And they, you know, one businessman, the doctor will take it to the clothes, clothier, to the automobile mechanic, to the dry cleaner, to the barber and all that money circulating and every dollar of it goes into the white community, maybe, 20, 30 different businesses get a piece of it. But a dollar in the black community, usually our salary goes into the black community and as soon as we take it to the supermarket it goes out of the black community. You just plain have to do the self-interest thing of doing business with people who

do business with you. Otherwise every dollar that comes into our community doesn't last long enough to do anybody any good and any time we can do business with people who do business with us, we're helping the whole community. When you're powerful politically, people don't take advantage of you. I can remember in Atlanta politicians used to talk about nigger this and nigger that, you know, 10, 12 years ago. Then you registered 30 percent of the vote and they started saying negro. You register 50 percent of the vote and there's negro. Now that we got about 75 percent of the vote registered they talk about how good it is to be with their black brothers, you know, and people respect votes and money. And if you're not being respected it's because you're not voting and it's because you're not getting your share in the economy.

[Host]: What motivating force influenced your decision to enter the political, political arena? [Jackson]: A combination of things. I think primarily the assassinations in 1968. Our daughter Brooke was born the day that King was buried in Atlanta. That was April the 8th of 1968. And less than two months later, Bobby Kennedy was shot to death and I, maybe along with you, many millions of Americans saw him killed on TV following the primary returns in California, and the next day I, um, I'm an attorney, was with a program representing low income people, I walked in, I quit my job, I borrowed $3000 and I qualified to run for the U.S. Senate against Herman Talmadge. Now he beat the devil out of me statewide but I got 24 percent of the vote and I beat him in Atlanta. Following year, I ran for vice-Mayor, won by a landslide. And this year I ran for Mayor and won again.

[Host]: What actual political power do the elected black mayors of our major cities have? [Jackson]: Well, first of all, the answer depends on the kind of system a city has. If you have a city with a strong mayor, city council, form of government, you have a mayor with very significant powers. One who with a stroke of opinion'll literally change the whole mechanism for the delivery of city services, for example. Atlanta is going to a new system which will have the strong mayor, city council forum. And therefore the chances for us to do things in Atlanta are quite vast and very exciting potential. [Host]: How did the white faction of Atlanta's population react to your decision to run as their mayor? [Jackson]: It was a mixed bag. Some liked it and most didn't. Many called me a black racist, that was the word on the cocktail circuit, because I've been very aggressive on behalf of black people. As I will continue to be. And, uh, because I had fought very strongly in the area of equal employment opportunity,

contract compliance, and equal enforcement of the law by the police. That changed after the election, many of that of those who had opposed me, even though I had some support, by the way, from the business community, so to speak. After the election, even those who had opposed me openly said, well, you won and I didn't vote for you and I worked against you but you are the mayor, we want Atlanta to be the best, and we're going to support you a hundred percent. The, the response by the white community since the election has been excellent. [Host]: Uh, what do you expect the political climate to be for black folks in the next three to five years? [Jackson]: It's. very much on the upbeat, very positive. For example there are now about 95 or 96 black mayors in America. Most are of small towns, as you know. And of course we have a growing number of black elected officials on every level in this country. The reason I'm optimistic is that we have nowhere to go but up. Because even with all of the elected officials we have who are black in America, we only count to one half of one percent of all elected

officials in this country. And we're of course gaining more sophistication each year. [Host]: What are your feelings on revenue sharing, that's a big jump. [Jackson]: Well I think we ought to understand that Mr. Nixon has wrought a revolution. There's no question about it. He has done it. The concept of new federalism is a fact. Governors now are far more powerful than they were three or four years ago. The same goes for local elected officials. Regional federal administrators are getting more and more power through decentralization. Under Mr. Nixon, which he calls a new federalism, whatever that means, general revenue sharing, which we have now, could be a real boon for urban dwellers and for black people especially, but it strictly depends on how effective we are with our politics. If we have an office, good people who are going to fight for the rights of the masses and not just the classes, we're going to get that revenue sharing used for our purposes.

If we have people in office who have no more sensitivity than that wall on the side of me then we will not benefit from revenue sharing generally. Now there was another type of revenue sharing, which of course is special revenue sharing, that I hope will come down the pike also. But the fact is that we have it. The question is how are we going to maximize our impact on that. [Host]: How can we as black people best utilize our political representatives? [Jackson]: My feeling is first of all to make sure we have enough representatives in office. That, number two, we demand that they be responsive. It's not enough just to be black. We've got to be black and be able to deliver the goods. So we've got to be black and beautiful, as I see it. And I think that what we can do is to demand this of our elected officials by keeping them accountable to the masses of people. My feeling is this can be done through careful political organizing. It can be done

through monitoring of the activities of our elected officials. And number three, not forgiving inexcusable mistakes just because somebody is black. [Host]: I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to interview you. [Jackson]: I've enjoyed it. [Host]: Congratulations at the same time. [Jackson]: Thank you brother. Thank you very much. [Host]: We're here today with two brothers from the Mass Black Caucus. Uh, I'd like to introduce those two gentlemen. First to my left, Royal Bolling Sr. And to his left, Mel King. Right. Both state representatives. Uh, trying to get some perspective on where black folks should be headed, how they should be thinking relative to 1974, one of the responsibilities of the show is to try to give focus

and direction to the black community, particularly the black community in Boston. I'd like to address my first question to Brother Bolling, and that's relative to how do you see the role of organized politics in the black community? [Bolling]: Well I think that, uh, the primary ingredient is that the people have to realize what benefits that politics can be to them. More and more you have black persons in political office. And you, they can see your spin. We have contractors that are interested in business. We have businessmen that are interested in expanding their businesses and so forth. And inevitably they come to their political elected officials for help. If we can produce the type of help that they need, then they see a relevancy between politics

and their own endeavors. This is one aspect that has to be built up in the black community. The other thing I believe is that the black community has to use a sophistication in politics that will, where they can exert their power at the most opportune moment. [Host]: Mel, I'd be interested in hearing your response to such a question. [King]: I think the, the key piece that we need to look at is not to differentiate the kinds of politics. We first have to agree that there are some power pools. In those power pools, resources are allocated or decisions are made that affect our lives. And we have to figure

out the way to get the resources out of that power pool, or to deal with the decisions that get made that affect our lives and if one power pool is in the state legislature or in the city council then you have to organize and deal with that. If another power pool is in the business community or related to the economics then you have to organize to deal with that as well. So I get concerned when we talk in terms of politics and only look at electoral politics. Some of the most political activity that we've been in in this country has been around the community organization and community mobilization politics. [Host]: What are some of the bills,

when we talk about organized politics and, and, and come back to Massachusetts, what are some of the bills up for consideration in the legislature at this particular point that would have impact on the black community here in Boston? [Bolling]: I think that the bill dealing with the, uh, small business involvement in state contracts is an important bill. Insofar as politics alone and how politicians can be financed for their run for office, the Black Caucus has a bill in the legislature now which has passed the House and is over in the Senate that calls for a $1 tax adjustment from the state tax bill that will go to political parties designated by the taxpayer. This I believe will raise, uh, in the millions of dollars that

can finance a politician for public office. This takes politics away from the fat cats that can afford to put the money out and finance a campaign. Unlike the federal program where this dollar deduction had to be made out on a separate sheet, and few people realized that they could do it. Consequently the federal government only got about a 3 percent return from the money that taxpayers could have allocated to politics. Possibly if this type of thing had been in existence we wouldn't have had the Watergate. We wouldn't have had the big sums of money contributed by big corporations to politicians. I believe that if this bill is passed, and I'm quite sure it will pass, because it has caught the, uh, fancy of all

the political persons in the Massachusetts political arena. I believe this bill will pass. I think we can say that the Black Caucus is responsible for funding both the Republicans, the Democrats, the Independents, and any other parties that will be on the ballot. [King]: Let me pick up on that because there's a few other pieces of legislation that are in that I think are, are very crucial. One is a bill patterned after the New York State's Urban Development Corporation, it's a Massachusetts Economic Development Corporation. Uh, it's a bill that, uh, Representative Doris Bunte, for example has put a lot of energy into, um, organizing along with a number of people in the community who are interested in economic development. What this bill will do will allow the, our state to use its bonding capability to provide housing

development to come into a particular city, town, or into a community and, under the supervision of people in that particular town, do the kind of housing, building, resource development that will create some jobs and some environmental and economic impact. That's one that's currently in the Senate Ways and Means and extremely important to get people behind. [Host]: Are you proposing, or are you developing, around needs again, any legislation that we should keep our eye out for, any bills that you intend to introduce to the legislature? [Bolling]: Well, the, uh, all the bills for this year is just about gone through the hearings, there are some late-file bills that are being introduced, but right now we are preparing for the

legislation that we will introduce next session. [King]: On the question of what do we see as very important in terms of bills, well, very much concerned about the issues in education and the accountability factors in education, and trying to do some things that bring the resource allocation to schools in poorer communities in line with what happens in wealthier communities. But related to that is to make sure that parents and people in those communities have a vehicle or mechanism for getting some accountability to get the kind of quality control that's necessary in the schools. We have one bill that we had in last year through the caucus and it got put into a study package which is a way of killing it. However, we are working

to put that together again for the, for the coming year. There's been a lot of interest in the urban homesteading concept. That's very interesting because this is one that the Gary convention, the National Black Political Caucus, advocated as a way of building some equity into the black community. What we'd like to do is to get the kind of resources put into the hands of people who want to take over these abandoned buildings, we also ought to be talking about some of the vacant lands that are owned by the city and state, and the programs aren't going to be worth much for people who are really in need of getting the housing if they have to go out and find money from a regular mortgage process. What we need is a state bank of some kind or a process using revenue sharing money or whatever that would allow

folks to be able to take advantage of the state-owned, city-owned land and abandoned buildings. So we want to put a piece together that would address itself to, to that issue. [Host]: I'd like to take some questions from our audience at this point. And when you ask a question, could you give your name and then state the question? You just have to step to the microphone. Yeah, this gentleman here. [Ellis]: My name is Richard Ellis and I'd like to know what's happening with the revenue sharing program that was promised to us by the Nixon administration about a year ago. They, uh, because I understand it, they've cut off and cut back a lot of federally funded programs, and a focal point of, of today's issues are, '74, what's happening in '74, and we realize that model cities are going to be closing in '74 unless some revenue sharing money comes down the pike. I'd like to know what's the status of, of the revenue sharing program. [King]: Let me take it from one standpoint and that has to do with what's happening

in the city of Boston, because the mayor has already decided on what he's going to do with the 17 million bucks of revenue sharing money that he has the power to deal with and I don't know if you saw in the paper. You know, the part of the paper which has the announcements from the city. The city record, the kind of things that are going on, and in it, it indicated in a letter to the appropriate officials in Washington, that the city was going to spend its revenue sharing money, I think, in four, four areas. One in recreation, another in police services, another in terms of the environment and I can't think of the fourth area right now, and he allocated about four million bucks or so to each of those areas. Now, the issue for us

is that people in the community didn't participate in that decision. So that it gets related again to a piece of the shell game that's being played by the mayor in relationship to the, to the taxes. He's used this as a vehicle for helping to keep the taxes down. But it doesn't serve the new needs that you're talking about. It doesn't add anything different to the, um, to the city in terms of some special problems or special needs that exist, and the people in the model cities program have come together, a little late for this year, but I think they're going to be on top of the situation for the allocation of those funds for the coming year. [Host]: Uh, do we have any other questions, uh, questions.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank both members of the caucus for coming in and talking to our audience and talking to our bigger audience out there in TV-land. Wondering if you have any words of wisdom that either of you would like to pass on to the people? [Bolling] I don't know how much wisdom is in it, but in the 12 years that I've been in politics it's been-- each year its been impressed around me more and more the importance of political action. The easiest way to work change is through the political system because, number one all you have to do is register the vote, number two all you have to do is vote, and number three the people that you vote for are supposed to perform for you. And it's right in our hands, it's right next to two or three streets down is your registration places. If it's something that we will realize and do, that overnight

the political, the economic, and the educational, all the things that this community is interested in can be changed, just an overnight operation. And it's in people's hands. [Host] Very fine. I want to thank both you for coming today and thank you. [King] Thank you. [Host] In what directions do black people need to move over the next few years so that we can ensure our progress? [Edward Brooke] Politics is power. And blacks need power in the country to achieve their well-deserved and too long postponed rights and opportunities by the election of blacks and others who are sympathetic with their causes. By forming coalitions with whites,

white liberals, white moderates, the interest groups such as Labor Unions and other special interest groups who have the same goals that blacks share because you must remember that blacks have the same problems as whites but then some additional problems as well. They're concerned about taxes, inflation, peace and war, air pollution, they're concerned about the energy crisis, just as whites are concerned. So when these big issues confront the nation they confront blacks as well as whites. But in addition to that they have to continuously fight for equal opportunities in education and jobs primarily. We're still the last hired, and the first fired. We're still not getting the quality as well as the quantity of jobs that are so sorely needed.

But I think that we have now recognized that like other groups in this country, that we can use political power in an effort to achieve the rights that we deserve. [Host] Recently you've been commenting on President Nixon, do you think that he in fact should resign? [Brooke] Well I think that the president has three options. One is to go through impeachment proceedings, or really, the House Judiciary Committee has under consideration 12 or more resolutions for impeachment. They're making inquiry into the possibility of impeachable offenses on the part of the President. This is a very long, very protracted, and very torturous process. I think that if this would continue that it could divide the country and

it would be very harmful in many respects for the nation and for the office of the presidency as well as for Mr. Nixon himself personally. The other option or another option is if the president just sort of limps along for the remaining term, part of his term, that's three years and a month or so. The investigations will continue. The trial of Former Attorney General Mitchell, former Commerce Secretary the other, the grand jury is meeting. And in this same time the nation would be seriously injured by limping-along process. The third alternative is resignation. Now I know of no indictable offense that the President has committed. I hope he has not committed any indictable offense. If there has been a failure on the part of the president I think that failure can best be described in the destruction of public confidence in his administration.

That destruction is at such a state that I think it would be difficult if not impossible for the president to restore the confidence in his administration to govern. If this is true then I think the President must make that decision. And if he arrives at that conclusion I should think that he would step down and resign from office in the interest of the nation and the presidency of Richard Nixon and the Republican Party he serves because if he does not, then I think irreparable harm will be done to all. And I reach this conclusion most reluctantly. I don't like to see any man hurt but I just can't see how he can turn this around. Possibly he can perform a miracle. He's done that with the Middle East hopefully and with the Soviet Union. And with China. Maybe he can do it

here. If he does, good luck to him. But it would take almost a miracle. It would mean that you'd have to stop this cat and mouse game, would have to come before the American people and say these are the facts. This is the truth. And let the American people make the decision as to the credibility and then, and then only, in my opinion, can we have a restoration of confidence. [Host] I want to thank you for this opportunity, and I hope you run for President. [Brooke] That's very kind of you Tom, I don't know whether you're wishing a good for me or ill for me but I'm sure that the spirit in which you wish it is good, and I'm very grateful to you. Thank you very much [Host] Thank you very much. Good to talk. Remember you are the folks who vote the power structure in. Write your congressman, state representative, and City Councilman, let them know where you stand. Whether you realize it or not you can determine this country's political destiny. That is if we as black folks

use our voting power at the booths and elect those officials who are going to bring about needed reforms in black communities throughout this country. And remember. Be good to yourself.