Rock and Roll; Interview with Red Tyler and Earl Palmer [Part 1 of 3]

OK so let's start off I mean just to talk a little bit about growing up in New York and the kind of music you were exposed to as a music your ins. From what I've heard and their music you know. Well I'd like to start off by saying that I was raised and the. Area that was. Very close to the St. Louis cemetery. So I did see a lot of parades bringing the bodies to the cemetery after they would cut them loose there did get into that second line. Kind of a thing saw saw that growing up. Also during the time that they had dances that some of the local clubs radio wasn't a big thing. No television they would put up like cards but they would have bands and trucks and they'd go on a corner and they'd probably like to make an announcement we're going to be at such and such a club tonight. So we would see those kind of

things going on constantly. Yeah I would think that was in those days that was the equivalent of snog all the soundcheck on the soundcheck down on the street advertise an event in bands on the chuck led bench I climbed right. Oh yeah yeah. I'm not sure everybody watches understand what that line. Oh yeah. Well I mean you live as a second line is Oh a second line is a situation where you'll have a band playing it wasn't only behind funerals it was also social in pleasure clubs would get together and they would give a function and they would. Have a band and they would go from club to club over approximately two miles or three miles and they'd go around to these

different bars to stop and get a drink. What would happen as they go along they would have. People in the neighborhood latch onto it and dance along behind the band. So they were concerned that the second line the main line was the club and the band. So the second line is where the people who live in the neighborhood said yeah they would just tag along buddy passes to and to a degree. But they had a party had more fun than anybody else because. They did what they kind of dance the clubs used to have you know uniforms and routines so to speak. The second line is we had lived there they had a bar. That's something you already knew. You come up a line and I knew. I used to always say you know you never saw a kid from the lawless who clapped his hand on one and three seemed to be borne of having on to him for one. Earlier you were a dancer. Yeah I was I was a tap dancer. As a matter of fact before I was ever

involved in playing drums I was a tap dancer of number seven straight for tips. And then after getting out of the service many years later I went on the road with my mother. Doing vaudeville after that but when vaudeville kind of petered out I went back to playing John's There was no way to tap dance at that time and plan after I went to playing drums. Fortunately I developed a pretty good head of what was considered the best job in town and I had come to be called the best drummer in town until I decided what am I going to do with my G.I. Bill you know that I had coming to me and I thought about liking to dress up going to Taylor and school as opposed to going to have him spend a dollar a week on a pair of pants. I thought about making my own clothes you know people say going to refrigeration that's coming and I asked Do you think I ought to do he said well why don't you go to music school. I said well I'm the best. One time he said but you don't know what you're doing and it dawned on me I didn't

do the I'm allowed to use it it's cool I like to make a point about the second line. I think that is the reason that the feeling and the concept of New Orleans music is so in stilled in the musicians because we came up with and beat that even when it's not played we hear it. Yeah you don't have to get a second wind beat but in New Orleans musician we feel it. Even though it's not played we can play straight ahead jazz bebop rhythm and blues. We still hear that second line and it's different than any musician around or round. World that I've seen they can play but they don't have the same concept. When you say you hear is there any way you like saying it or you're OK I'll give you an example. The bass drum. We're going to change your marker so that parade B that you're always hearing in your head how could you.

What is it. Well actually the bands would be marching down the street and they'd have the second line is even know the horns wouldn't be playing to keep the beat going. The bass drum with my own own BOEM BOEM BOEM BOEM BOEM var. bone to bone deep home BOEM BOEM BOEM BOEM BOEM BOEM BOEM BOEM. But it's that kind of a feelin in the people with soy so that just so there'd be even before the band came in and even if that would happen to stop from the bass drum and the switch it is an edge on maybe planet I don't. Know if that would stop just a shuffling of the feet of the people moving along still in that rhythm without even hearing anything as it is another thing that was innate in the people. That they continued even without the music. And it was always you just just it was. Inbred I would always say about new laws as was very unique about new laws and something else I'd like to bring up about that

I think. Per capita New Orleans times I'll get more great dramas than any city I know. Great dramas not just good dramas great dramas. I would think that any feeling of rhythm I would have a lot to do oh yeah yeah that's a different thing. I mean there's many jokes from us that we should go through and each one was unique unto himself. Im impressed by the one before him but they are one thing. What about Heather's story. That's something that everybody here many years ago particularly and in the neighborhoods where we had an eye for primarily came up a lot of that because. People were a lot farther away from markets than uptown was the same way I'm pretty sure but I don't think it happened as much as downtown but the peddler's right. All these brothers each of them had a wagon to me last fall and they had

fruit and vegetables and they'd come to the neighborhood. They do that a lot in South America to understand. Well actually it was a way of announcing that we are now in the neighborhood and you know the families of the wives would be inside and a guy was selling watermelon and there was a mellow red. Many come out you know and we have. Those kind of things you know it was sort of in the neighborhood of come out of the kitchen and buy your vegetables if you need them and the other thing about that that I think that you would try to get to is fact when you say they had different songs they did depending on many time depending on what it was selling or just if they were selling the same thing off of a wagon they had their own melody that has not not been any complex melody at all it was like he said put in my one note but sometimes it was very it would have been the only unique flamboyant and

I was like he said some were. Very musical in the things that they would sing out and others would just do a monotone you know who it was. Yeah. So all these kind of things make me sure I actually did it. That's what makes it so unique. Travel extensively as they arrive and you will find that for example anyway and they ask you where you're from once you know you're American you say Chicago but I'm always going from knowing Yeah. The attitude changes immediately right and they want to know something about it they want to talk about it. As opposed to when we talk. God may seem all just music and talent that comes out in a lot of very few music. Musicians can make a living in Orange playing music. It's a hard time to make a living. That's. A good one.

Still she will tell you that we've. Had a lot. Like an eternity for you three. How would you describe the Dew Drop Inn and uses the name when you when you answer that question. In the late 40s early 50s What was the scene like what kind of music. For one thing during that particular time was the place to go you know because it was open to daybreak in Amman and. The music would necessarily be playing unless we were still jamming and yeah because we were red and I was working on the same job with the same group different places for quite a while and it wasn't just

recording with Dave's band playing with different groups and we come in year guys will be waiting for us to come in and jam because we want to play all kinds of music. Vocals would emanate emulate and we'd naturally play New Orleans type music for the tourist that would come in and we'd come in here and hang out and guys would be waiting for us to come in so we could jam different you know different people and this place was the place to go because you could as he was saying earlier off camera but we come here you get red beans and rice and full 430 in the morning and full meal and. Picture of the dew drop. Is that it was a place to socialize. You have to take in consideration. And at that time most of the blacks lived in what they call shotgun houses. Straight through living room bedroom bedroom either bathroom or kitchen

kitchen and bathroom. So it was not a good place to have a party because if some members of the family had gone to sleep you'd have to go through there to get to the bathroom or whatever to the kitchen. So most blacks would socialize they would come out to a club and dress to the max. Ladies and finery to men in suits and everything. So they would come out to socialize. Another unique thing that was happening at the dewdrop and in most places in New Orleans is that you could buy what they call a set up and you didn't necessarily buy a drink you bought a half a pint a pint of failed so what you said it on the table it give you ice cherries lemon and glasses and you would socialize with the bottle on the table. So that was a form of socializing you know Anyway I wasn't willing to do but it was really in the late 40s early 50s right a place like that you can assure me of that. I know that I read somewhere that you were

busted in 53 for playing with wife and me as we both were. OK I'll give you another example right here in the dewdrop. The actor Zachary Scott had come to the dewdrop just to see the show see these they have also used to have shows you know dancers and comedians on all the shows. So Zachary Scott came here and they busted him for miseducation right here in this club and he's going to see the show. Now that was another thing we did from different time did have. You know people would come to see the show white people it wasn't really supposed to be and it was celebrities like exactly Scott's case I remember a time the cowboy singer and guitar player last Luly came in here one time and I don't know why they didn't bust him because maybe he didn't know whether he was black or white but he sure should have seen him boots black son on the way and then he was bombed out of his bad man and he just said I would have to buy listen to music all night

long and want to play his guitar and we wouldn't let him. All the time you have to take in consideration. Black and white musicians were not allowed to play together. We went to we got but you had a white one time musicians local and a black musicians local entered till today right at this very moment. I think we're the only musicians local that have two numbers 174 days 4 9 6. When name were aged they still had their own identity. So today you reactions. That no cancer is a crime scene. You said you were actually you were busted for life. Well there are numbered of white musicians who used to like to play with us to come and sit in the club some time. But there was 9 12 to lose with trumpet player

who was the first husband of my second wife as a matter of fact. And I wonderful dropped a pair and we didn't go but I had his apartment late in the morning and and jam in it and a couple of times we got busted for playing together a couple of times he was pulled off to stand up to show Bob to come in and sit with us and taken together. It just didn't want didn't want to integration of the music that any guy had any time. So. It wasn't a serious charge is just was more of an aggravation than anything else to just a lesser You know you know we don't want you playing together but we can we can interrupt you every time we can. But we still did it. Well as a matter what I said yet it was number time a number of places it happened to. Let me ask you a little more about about the music. How would you see it. Rhythm and rhythm

and blues started evolving in the late late 40s 50s coming from jazz. You just talk a little bit about where rhythm and blues came from and what made you think that. Well rhythm and blues is as I remember was always there in some form and it was basically. On the spot creation. You didn't write it down a singer would come up with I knew you would you would just put in the range behind a saying. And this happened all over. In the clubs in the shows that you played somebody said well I'm going to sing a tune in B-flat usually Blues which is really simple changes and you put an arrangement behind it. It was just something that was created on the spot and it was really rhythm and blues was a black music.

So the weight of that guy's seen ONE TAKE FIVE AND ROLL.