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I'm Sue O'Connell. This is like Cali Crossley Show. Writer John fall said there are only two races on this planet the intelligent and the stupid. Clearly he overlooked the other race that bridges the two teenagers. New research examines why seemingly smart teenagers do really stupid. Things. From skateboarding down steep stairs to raiding mom and dad for cabinet. It turns out this kind of reckless conduct could be. Part of the. Evolutionary process. A combination of brain development and hormones influences teens perceptions in such a way that what may seem like perilous to their parents doesn't seem at all hazardous to them. This hour we'll go through that terrifying terrain that is the teen's brain and behavioral ways. From there it's the Antiques Road Show. We'll get the lowdown on the Brimfield fare. Up next generation gaps from adolescence to inti. First the news. From NPR News in Washington I'm Lakshmi Singh. Senate Democrats

argue that Big Oil doesn't need tax breaks if they're pulling in big profits while people are forced to pay more for gas. They're now pushing to impose additional taxes on the industry. Exxon Mobil's Rex Tillerson says that would be a mistake. It is not simply that they are misinformed and discriminatory. They are counterproductive by undermining U.S. competitiveness they would discourage future investments in energy projects in the United States and therefore undercut job creation and economic growth. The heads of shell of Conoco BP America and Chevron are also testifying. Rising gas prices mostly account for the overall jump in retail sales. They rose a half percent and NPR's Sonari Glinton says it's the 10th straight month retail sales have moved up. Consumers have been spending more on goods such as clothing and cars. One of the places they've been doing that is online in catalogs Stuart Hoffman is chief economist with PNC Financial Services. He says that's largely

because of gas prices. People thought rather than spend. Yes lead in the money to drive to the mall. There seem to have been some substitution from driving to the store to just stand at home and you know shop and buy quick often says he thinks three straight months of job growth and income growth offset the spike in gas prices. Sorry Glinton NPR News. Residents of the Mississippi Delta are watching their homes become inundated with water from the rising Mississippi River. It isn't expected to crest in some areas for another week to 11 days. Greenville resident Doris petty lives 30 yards behind a levee and she says she has to put her faith in God to give me three and six bad days of a year. So while I don't know you thank you let me down now so I don't have to be about it. Eleven counties in Mississippi have been declared disaster areas with many homes farmland and roads heavily flooded in an apparent effort to dispel rumors that Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi killed himself or was killed rather in a recent

U.S. airstrike. NPR's Lourdes Garcia-Navarro says state television has been showing video of the Libyan leader for the first time state television showed images of Moammar Gadhafi we have not seen him since the 30th of April. Of course there was no way to verify when these pictures were taken. The images were not live did not speak in them. However these are the first images to surface for several weeks. NPR's Lourdes Garcia-Navarro now on April 30th an airstrike did kill one of the leader's sons. Libyan officials say Gadhafi was in the compound at the time but escaped unharmed. At last check on Wall Street the Dow is up 20 points at twelve thousand six hundred fifty. Nasdaq moving up 11 points it's at two thousand eight hundred fifty six an S&P 500 gaining three to thirteen forty five. This is NPR News. A retired U.S. auto worker John Demjanjuk is convicted as an accessory to murder at a Nazi death camp in Poland during the Second World War and is being sentenced to

five years in prison. A court in Germany delivered that verdict today. NPR's Eric Westervelt reports a 91 year old's defense attorney says his client is being made a scapegoat. The court found Demjanjuk guilty of helping to kill nearly twenty eight thousand Jews and Soviets who were killed during the time he was a guard at the Sobibor death camp in Nazi occupied Poland. The 91 year old was sentenced to five years in prison. There was no evidence he committed a specific crime but the prosecution successfully argued that if To me I knew it was at Sobibor he participated even indirectly in mass murder. It's the first time that legal argument has been made against low level former Nazis in a German court. The verdict is likely to set a new legal precedent here and open the way for more similar lawsuits. Prosecutors presented an I.D. card and other documents to show that Demjanjuk served at Sobibor. He denies ever being a Nazi guard. His lawyer vowed to appeal. Eric Westervelt NPR News Berlin. Fixed mortgage rates have fallen to their lowest levels this year the US Freddie Mac

says the average rate on the 30 year loan fell to four point sixty three percent. The average rate on the 15 year fixed mortgage slipped to three point eighty two percent from three point eighty nine. Both are at their lowest point since December. It marks the fourth straight weekly decline. Here's the latest from Wall Street the Dow's gaining twenty seven points it's a twelve thousand six hundred fifty seven and the Nasdaq is now gaining fourteen points close to half a percent. Twenty eight fifty nine. This is NPR. Support for NPR comes from IBM working to help midsize businesses become the engines of a Smarter Planet. Learn more at IBM dot com slash engines. The single man standing to the point of view of the few souls. In the dark you just don't understand. That's of course Will Smith.

Good afternoon. I'm Sue O'Connell and this is the Kelley Crossley Show Will Smith breaking it down for us because parents just don't understand or maybe it's the teenagers who don't understand. I don't know we don't know but there's one thing that we can all agree on. Teenagers can make simply the stupid decisions it with summer on the horizon and summer jobs in short supply. More teens than ever will be left on their own and sometimes they can get into a little bit of trouble So joining me to talk about the behavioral and psychological forces behind teenagers reckless ways are Dr. William Brown a pediatric neurologist and associate professor of neurology at Boston University and Richard Bromfield a psychologist on the faculty of Harvard Medical School and author of How do unspoiled your child's fast Welcome to you both. Good evening good afternoon I should say. Yeah. Listen I love to say that if I'm going to first ask you to change that bust into Brown. Oh OK did I say Boston University or did I say Brown. You said Boston Oh my goodness. My my my my my territorial issues coming forward.

Thank you very much. Mine too. Listeners We'd love to have you join the conversation at 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 if you'd like some advice on how to interact with your teenager when he or she has had some judgment lapses give us a call if you want to share your stories with your own stupid things things that you did as a teen but lived to talk about. We'd love to share them with our listeners I'm sure your kids are in school yet so you'll be covered 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. Well let's let's kind of break it down a little bit. Dr. Brown one of the the hallmarks of the teenage years I think for all societies is the trial and error way of learning. But one of the things that parents get so perplexed about is how can they have a child who's you know maybe in the top 2 percent of his or her high school class on the academic team and then goes ahead and maybe throws a party while the parents are away even though the aunt lives next door and is going to call the police on them what what is what are the things that are the forces of

nature that are happening here that allow that to happen. Well I think the mistake in the thinking is that the teenagers are like us. And at the risk of offending my Canadian friends I think teenagers are much like Canadians. They look like us they act like us. They eat our food like us but they're really not us the Brits are really different from us. And Dr. Brownfield I'm wondering as well you know it's when I think back on some of the stupid things I did as a teenager it really doesn't. I can't even tell you why I did them. You know I mean I feel like I as many grown ups do. We'll look back on those times and so right. Yes and the connection between what's happening and what's not happening in your brain seems to be a real this is a disconnect. You know and teens get a bad rap. I mean the reality is that not all teens make bad decisions and even the teens who make bad decisions also make a lot of good decisions. The problem is some of the bad decisions they can make can be whoppers that really set them back or can really derail a life. Permanently So that's that's one of the main

concerns. Well one of the things that I think is you know we're talking about teens making bad decisions but we wouldn't have news if grownups didn't make bad decisions I mean grown ups I think by far probably make is any better we all do teens. But is it something that's amiss. I mean I think Dr. Brown's point they aren't like us but somehow they talk and walk like us and they take responsibility like us. And then suddenly there's what we see as a lapse. Yes and and the thing to remember may be getting to the punch line is that it's a process. They're learning to be like us and hopefully they're going to learn to be like the better of us and make good decisions. But it isn't the one step kind of thing it's a learning curve that sounds really young goes all the way through teenage hood. And the goal is that every time they make a decision they make a little better one and a better one until they can act pretty well on their own behalf. William Brandon I'm curious about society today vs.. Our most recent history you know there's many many a person who thinks that the childhood today is a recent construct. You know that we didn't really have the childhoods like we have.

And I notice even in my own suburban neighborhood that there is this this urge of parents to continue the childhood longer that while you can certainly vote when you're 18 and you can join the army when you're 18 and you can make your own decisions about about things when you're 18. Children are still they're still treated like children by their parents and I'm wondering if this just complicates the whole adolescence a bit more or does it make it easier. That's a tricky question. I would expect it would make things a little more difficult for the kids because they may not have a clear idea of where adulthood begins and childhood ends. From a biological standpoint there is no division line between them because brain metrication is a process that begins from the moment you're born actually before you're born and doesn't really end until you're in your early 20s. You know one of I was recently on a cruise and the drinking age at sea is 18 and there were five hundred teenagers on it. And there was this sign posted that

said you know teenagers 18 year olds may drink with the parent's written consent which cracked me up. I mean because there were you know basically they are legal adults and especially legal to able to drink in my 10 year old daughter just could not wrap her brain around why they could be on the cruise on a honeymoon. Would they still need their parents permission to drink and that was I thought really a nice collision of explaining where teenagers are today versus where they might have been in the 1950s or 60s. I think your original premise is totally right that one of the way that one of the ways that people learn to make good decisions growing up in life is by living the consequences the natural consequences of what we do you leave your baseball glove at the field and you don't go back and get it. You don't have a baseball glove if you go outside without a coat you get cold. That's kind of how people learn. Today's parents tend to undercut that short circuit that kind of thing and we rescue the children from the consequences of

what they do and we've sensually deprived them of natural learning opportunities to make better decisions as they move you know. I had a huge day I had Dr. Brown were talking so obviously about the sort of natural parenting the natural consequence of parenting. And I'm I'm always joking with my daughter's peers about how you know they're all 10 and I say you know New Hampshire 14 is the legal age to marry you know or 50 years ago you'd already be driving a tractor and cutting some hay and certainly in other parts of the world. That's true. Do we have we eliminated the ability of of natural consequences for some teens but on the other hands increase the damage that it does to their life. You know what I mean like you watch a series like Mad Men where in the 40s these characters these fictional characters make these big decisions but they're able to recover from them and it seems like today there isn't the ability for teenagers to recover from things mistakes.

Well I think part of it may be related to parents. Tendency to want to either rescue their kids or prevent them from having to suffer consequences. And I think that more than anything else has has led to what you're talking about. You're listening to the Kelly Crossley Show here on WGBH our phone numbers 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 I'm SuBo call in for Kelly Crossley. You know there's there's certainly no no lack of temptation for teenagers today especially when some of them want to get maybe tattoos. We're going to take a listen to a Saturday Night Live skit just kind of detailing what some of the consequences are for teenagers when they grow up. Hello. I'm Dr. Edward Turlington. Studies show that next to smoking and having sex getting a lower back tattoo is the best thing a young woman can do to be cool. And you ladies were cool. Look here's a really cool lower back tattoo on the track to the 20 year old girl. Now watch what happens to that tattoo.

Maybe. That's why I developed Turlington slower back tattoo remover. You know it's humorous but it's true. You look at any number of me tattoos have certainly changed in our society over the past 15 or so years but it does speak to the lack of being able to see what the future or to not care. I mean I again I can only speak of myself but I don't know that I ever thought about life after 30 I don't ever know if I think I ever thought of what would happen when. Is that is that all. Is that a characteristic of most adolescent. Well not at most but a lot of them a lot of them don't care but a lot of them also truly lack. They like kind of a psychic imagination to see what might be what will happen if I do this. What will that mean for my life five years to 10 years or 15 years down the road. Some of that is brain brain science I think some of this some of that is hopelessness I've seen a lot of teenagers who really don't

anticipate a life 15 20 25 years down the road. So for them it's live live today and live it full and. There's no other you know I think consideration. But that's that gets back to my point about even from a young child. The goal is to give these children continual opportunities to exercise the judgment under the loving care of a parent. But letting them kind of run it as best as they can to learn to own their lives and and take good responsibility and develop that kind of psychic imagination to anticipate what doing this today might mean for tomorrow. Dr. Brown What sort of challenges do you think that you're seeing and what challenges do the teens and the parents both experience. Well what I was going to say was teenagers tend to live more in the moment and they can see the future. It doesn't have as much meaning to them as Dr. Brownfield had said. So at a time when they're maturing this part of their brain where they're able to foresee consequences and

assess risk they're also finally tuned to rewards so they'd much rather get a reward now than have to postpone that reward for later so that enters into their thinking when they're trying to make a decision. And is there how much of you know there's no financer to this but how much of this is sort of our evolutionary biology and how much of it is is the rearing I'm always loving the study with the kids being able to delay eating the marshmallow and then to find out which which little 5 year olds could wait to get the bigger reward or the ones that don't end up going to jail and of course joking in a general way but you know the being able to delay. Immediate gratification is a good indicator that a child will be more successful as an adult as measured when they're five. Are we just by logically wired to be conquering something when we're teenagers or looking for mates when we're teenagers and our society is just again turning it into just a longer childhood.

Probably think of go ahead. I was going to say it. I think in terms of maturation engaging in risky behavior and mate searching go together and part of engaging in risky behavior involves To some degree alienating yourself from your parents to get them to get you out of the nest so you can go and find a mate so there is something to be said for biology in that respect on the other hand. Evolution never prepared us for fast cars and tailor made drugs at all of the other things that teenagers tend to get themselves into. So I think technology and changing civilization norms. Haven't yet allowed evolution to catch up to it. So I think that it's riskier environment that the kids find themselves in now days. Yeah your point also speaks of the fact that children differ. There are some children who just make good decisions if they resist temptation. Peers don't seem to influence in the same way and they're all the children who have a much harder time. And that tells us they need more more from parents

more from schools more help we'll take your calls we'll take a quick break. It's 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 do you have a particular challenge with your teen or a concern for the summer off hours. Or maybe you just want to share one of your war stories about how you survived your teenage years. We've got some more fun fun sound coming your way to you listening to the Kelly Crossley Show I'm Sue O'Connell. We'll be right back after this on eighty nine point seven WGBH. More support for WGBH comes from news. And from Boston private banking Trust Company Boston private bank provides private and commercial banking and investment management and trust services to individuals and businesses. You can learn more by visiting Boston private bank dot com and from American experience presenting the inspirational film Freedom Riders. Hundreds of civil rights activists risked their lives protesting segregation in the south. Watch Freedom Writers

Monday night at 9:00 on WGBH to meet. The. KING. On the next FRESH AIR veteran journalist and author Pete Hamill talks about his new novel Tabloid City and how columnist of his day differed from edgy bloggers of the new media. We came from a tradition where we were paid to have opinions but the opinions were based on the reporting we had been there. Join us. This afternoon at two on eighty nine point seven WGBH WGBH member card agency your WGBH member card is good for discounts at aquariums and beast those concert halls and dance shows get an eye exam fresh flowers or warm a growth high five here I've had jazz joints. It's for the kids learn a language. See movies see nature. Organic

produce quotes on refinancing your home and Shakespeare Theater tickets music books and you whiled Santa C-x at the soup. Learn how much it pays to support public broadcasting online at WGBH dot org. We're running out of oxygen. I only have so many people that I can trade the world and it's not an easy decision for anyone to make. Coming up at 3 o'clock on an eighty nine point seven WGBH Boston NPR station for news and culture. I'm Sue O'Connell in for the Kelly Crossley Show this is the Kelly Crossley Show if you're tuning in we're talking about why seemingly smart teenagers some of them are prone to making stupid decisions. I'm joined by Dr. William Brown a pediatric neurologist and associate professor of neurology at Brown University and Richard Branson one of my homies from Revere psychologist on the faculty of medical school growing up in our our own little environment right here we are successful adults adults having

lived and we all have to develop. You know I want to play another clip I want to pick one of my favorite clips from. Do we have Dude Where's My Car do we have one of those. No do we have Ferris Bueller's Day Off one of the famous smart kids making bad decisions let's stick. Let's take a listen to them deciding how do we know how to fix the odometer on the Porsche. You know it's the mileage. Does interest you. Never has never will. This is real simple. Whatever miles we put on will take. The drive home. Backward. No. Again. It's one of the great teen movies of all time Ferris Bueller's Day Off Of course and we're taking your calls as I said you know one of the challenges I think that every parent forces is forced to deal with is that they're not raising themselves. You know that they're they're raising a child who's in a totally different environment maybe than they were and has different different concerns and challenges yet

they sometimes want to correct the mistakes that we see our parents made on us and influence them that ways. Is that a standard thing I mean are all parents trying to kind of correct themselves by raising themselves. I think I mean parents tend to learn about parenting from their own parenting they received. And most parents want to do it better than they experienced and a lot of A-B learned as some parents want to do it just like their parents and people want to do it. Nothing like their parents. But even though parenting is you know parenting is the same a child is the same it is a much tougher time between the influence of affluence and the media here and. What children are exposed to it's a much harder time for both parents and it's a much harder time for teenagers. And you pointed out this kind of an irony when I was a child living in Rivera I thought my parents were kind of overprotective but when I look back when I was 12 I was riding a bike to Lynn on a highway I was taking the bus will go watch a Red Sox in town the train.

So today's children have this kind of strange mix of privileges that go way to the to the you know the extreme but they also have much less responsibility than we had and so it's almost burdening them with too much and not giving them enough opportunity to learn how to act well on their own behalf. Yeah I mean Dr. Brown also to your point you know it's children of the Industrial Age had a far more dangerous time then than our children do today. You know to to to doctors point here I'm not my mother you give me a dime and tell me who drives a blue line train to doing an aquarium to look at the seals and come back by myself. I don't know that the world is more dangerous now but we certainly think it is right. And that's going to really mess up in adolescence head when they're expected to be grownups but at the same time they they're they're treated like children. Well don't overlook the influence of the Internet to an electronic media. I mean when I was a kid I knew every tree stump. Gopher hole in the neighborhood

was but I knew nothing much about the outside world and now it's just the opposite Most kids know a lot about the outside world but don't know much about. What happens in their own neighborhood because they don't get out of the house that much. We're going to go to the phone lines we're going to speak with Laura calling us from Milton Laura welcome to the Kelly Crossley Show how are you. Hi Oh thank you. What's on your mind I felt like he and I really great. Like there are many days when we trot as far as I know it is you know I just want to write you know. But Mike there is so much money music you sing. Younger children you know the elementary school you know try and then they could pump money in to people who are addicted to drugs. But there is nothing for children who are experimenting with drugs because the courts are the parent and I in fact call the pediatrician asking him what do you know.

Quote It has to come from within the camp. And now I'm a nurse and I've worked with drug addicts at Boston Medical Center I've had to get methadone to newborns because they're withdrawing from heroin. And I just I thought just outstanding and really disturbing that our society you know has come to us and I'm just wondering how to handle it. Laura thanks thanks for your call I'm going to have you take your answer off the air because your phone lines a little a little not great but you know it's an excellent question you've got these two ends of the spectrum this sort of zero tolerance for drugs and then treatment for you when you get you do drugs and become addicted to it but what happens to all the teenagers in between. Yeah and there's a certain hypocrisy there. I think if the president the Middlebury College recently last year. I was trying to get the drinking age lowered to 18 or 17 because he said it made no sense that you have all these kids drinking everyone knows they do but legally they can't do anything to help them they can't have programs for drinking they can't have.

Have strategies and set up a safe way of drinking because it's illegal. So we're really setting these kids up to fail and have difficulties with it. It also reminds me this a little bit different but I you know as a therapist who works with teenagers what one needs to do practically speaking is be nice if I could say one thing that would get a child not to drink or not to smoke marijuana or whatever. But what you try to do is help them make good decisions so for example you don't get a child to give up drinking overnight but you can enlist the child to start making good decisions like for example a child who drinks who agrees to not drive. That's huge because they start to make a good decision around that. And by doing that they avoid DUI as they avoid killing somebody they avoid hurting themselves they avoid legal problems that can get really really bad. And that's the beginning where Travel's thought the employee better decision making in a context of something that seems huge and something you can't do anything about but you have to kind of build in roads and prioritize. We're on your way.

Yeah. I think the caller makes a very interesting point though and it sort of exposes. A societal gap that we have where you know there's a this is zero tolerance for alcohol and drug use right up until the time they leave high school and off they go to college where as Dr. Bonfils says everyone knows they drink. And for parents it makes it very difficult to know how it is supposed to teach their children about responsibilities in that department. Yeah. 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0 is the number to join the conversation 8 7 7 3 0 1 8 9 7 0. I have a colleague who's got a very very smart son and attends a great school. One of the top of his class and during vacation he was home every night with his mom and his mom was taking him out to dinner and they went out to dinner one night and she said you know I'm so thrilled you want to spend so much time with me but why aren't you out with your friends.

You know what is going on here on and he said you know all they're 17 and they're starting to drink some and he feels uncomfortable and he said I just don't want to be around them I don't want to be there when they're drinking and she actually said to him How are you going to learn how to drink if you don't hang out. And what she said later was what she really meant and she clarified with them is how are you going to learn how to decide what you're doing if you're going to stay home and watch Survivor with me. And he said but he already decided right. But you know is he going to be is he going to stay home every night. You know is that is that the environment I mean it is a bit about the division between what we accept and what we don't accept from our teams. You know the kind of zero the inability for them to recover from mistakes that writing you know was what and learning to recover from mistakes is a big part of the learning process no child is going to make good decisions all the time. But if they keep trying to make them. And they have help from the grown ups around them to recover and to learn that they made a mistake and a mistake is not a bad thing but that's part of the learning curve that's good. The problem as I

said before is that we want to try and help teenage children not make those big mistakes like pregnancies sexual diseases burning bridges getting thrown out of school that they can't get they can't recover from without a serious you know it's a real serious deterrent to their life as it is. Well also Dr. Brown to your point about about technology you know we've certainly in the city of Boston seen the effort for Cori reform you know where you have a number of teenagers who commit low level crimes but it goes on the record there on able to get jobs. And it really much pretty much sets the standard for them that they're only going to going to be so successful at such a level has and it's easier to access that information with the web and at the same time you have a show like MTV Teen Mom which started as a as what I thought was a very good warning show but now has turned these these teen mothers and teen parents into celebrities where their mistake if you will has turned them into

has turned into a money making opportunity for stardom I mean it's a terribly difficult terrain for for parents and teens to navigate. Yeah you're absolutely right. There is you know is there a skill set that we should be working on his parents. You know I mean obviously communication and other challenges but I think being a good role and role models for our kids and showing them sharing with them how we make artists systems ourselves. It's one way to start. We've got a Facebook comment from one of our listeners who says I know of two different people who have made one bad mistake after another starting with things like drinking drugs teen pregnancy dropping out of school and they have continued to screw up as adults because their parents always bail them out. So I got into trouble so they've never had to bear the consequences for their actions. One of them is unemployable now almost 40 years old he's been fired from jobs for not showing up. His mother still pays all of his bills including money for cigarettes. He has a second child now that he is unable to support. Is there a historic

reference for this. This is sort of over parenting I mean I think we all grew up with examples of you know the member of the family who was supported by the greater family the extended family but it does seem a lot more often that parents are really getting involved in paying their children cell phone bills. And I'm not just talking about the boomerang you know grown ups who went to college and came back but teenagers really do seem to be more supported financially. Then then I hate to say than we were when we were young this because it's kind of the my book about I'm spoiling children. Fundamental or traditional as it sounds. Children who get everything don't learn to be grateful children who don't have to wait don't learn patience. Children who get rescued from everything don't learn to assume responsibility for their life and the whole basis of this whole this whole discussion is you know a successful adolescence means a child realizes it is they who

own their life it is they who are responsible for the success and the future of the lives and the point you're making before about second chances. Also speaks quite sadly the fact that there are a lot of very young people who have already given up because of the mistakes of made to feel like it's too late. It doesn't matter. There's no recovery. We have a caller from Providence who's going to give us a good perspective as well Heather welcome to the Kelley Crossley Show. Hi thanks for taking my call. You're welcome. I had a quick question and I'll take it off the air. My thought was. I've been reading a lower angle stories and I'm thinking about the 16 and 7 year old 17 year olds who would be running farms all by themselves and making all these decisions and making calculated risks. You've spoken to a skeptic of technology but what I'm wondering about is are we lowering the bar I mean are we not expecting enough of them or I mean what is it that's changed essentially and I have two small children and I'm thinking that maybe I'll be too hard on them.

Thanks for your call Have a good point Dr. Brown or are we you know we used to expect 14 year olds to go off and get married and run the farm and not go off to war and now you know they're delaying we're delaying all of those things until the late 20s is that has our brain chemistry just not kept up with society. Well in much of the world that's what happens at the can the United States we've sort of got in the other direction. Kids seem to be more supported by their parents for much further into their childhood and early adult years and part of it is just of economic necessity. You talked about a single family member supporting an extended family I'm not sure that's possible anymore nowadays. Dr. Brownfield I was just talking to folks that in my neighborhood softball game last night a pap a parent a set of parents had just been employed there where they worked together had had shut down and the mother who was just a great person

but also was saying you know it's a great opportunity for the kids to understand that you know they have to go out and pitch in you know the way that we had to pitch in that they have to go pick up a couple of extra jobs. We're optimistic we're going to get through this but this is an opportunity for them and it really struck me that although many of us are in some economic strife we have worked really hard to protect our kids from it. Many of us in a way that our parents do for us and it just you know we can't predict what these teenagers and kids are going to grow up to be but it is it is a really amazing social experiment which is a lot of well that you know the self-esteem movement which failed miserably told us to just flat out children give every every every player a trophy what they come to practice and not what the last caller pointed out and this is one of the limitations of brain science I think which is that it reminds us of what young people are capable of in a different kind of culture in a different kind of parenting. And what today's parents have tended to do is we

have stolen that opportunity the way somebody gets true confidence and true competency is by being good at something not by being told you're good at something. And that even includes being able to handle life. You handle a lot of life and handle tough life it makes you and makes you confident that you can get through hard times. That's something probably children of previous generations had a lot more practice at than today's children I think. And it's interesting even if you look at street seemingly tough street kids you look at affluent kids when you really get to talk to them underneath the cockiness and the affluence there's a lot of fear about insecurity and apprehension about whether they can they can handle the future and what it holds for them. Is there a blueprint is there a couple of steps is there a takeaway for for parents listening who have teens or have children about to enter the teen. World or entering the summer vacation where parents generally either over over schedule their kids beyond belief or don't schedule them enough.

Now I couple of quick ones. One is that the look at the decision making as a learning process that goes on day after day after day. It takes some effort to try to create the conditions where you encourage a child to think about decisions and make good decisions and Karajan even young children to be advocates for themselves for example even like a sixth sixth grader fifth grade A fourth grader is having trouble with the teacher rather than run in or get a lawyer. Talk with your child and help them go in and talk with the teacher themselves that's the beginning of learning how to make good decisions and to think think through problems. And handle them and the other one is on the other side is not to be afraid when you see things are going right. I frequently will meet families where a teenager has cracked up to Catherine time and I go why not just give them a gun how many times they have to do this before you take away the keys and you realise they cant handle this back up to where you start working to a place where they can. Dr. Brown.

I think the only thing I would add is to allow your children sometimes to make bad decisions and let them fail and let them suffer some consequences. Be there to support them. But let them do what theyre going to do. The slogans are some degree of a safety net available to them. Its an amazing conversation it's especially since we were all teenagers. And as Dr. Brownfield pointed out to me during the break the vast majority of teenagers are good people making good decisions and make sure that we don't just paint them all with a big brush so when you see them hanging on the corner you know presenting the opportunity to get a job making kids not hang on the corner so there you go. We appreciate you joining us today. Thank you to Dr. William Brown and to Dr. Richard Bromfield Dr. Brown is at Brown University and Richard Bromfield is on the faculty of Harvard Medical School His latest book which my daughter makes me not look at every time. Start us out on spoiling your child. Up next it's a

primer on the Brimfield antique and collectible show. It's adolescence to antiques here on the Kelly cross show. Support for WGBH comes from you and from Judd Tyrian Performing Arts Center. Its impact has been extraordinary. Catherine Knowles Executive Director our partnership with GBH in terms of supporting GBH has deep into such an extent that we are going to reduce other media and really focus on tributes because the impact has been extraordinary to learn more about sponsorship. Call 6 1 7 350 500 next time on the world. U.S. Marines in Afghanistan trying to build trust by talking with wives and mothers in Afghan communities. These female engagement teams are making progress but it's not easy.

There's just nothing about a flak jacket and eye protection and a Kevlar that says Come talk to me reaching Afghanistan's women one kitchen at a time. That's next time on the world. Coming up at 3:00 here on eighty nine point seven WGBH. It's the forty sixth annual WGBH spring auction. Your chance to support the public radio and television you depend on and get some great deals while you're at it. Right now you can bid on an exclusive Ken Burns American journeys trip for two presented by top stories. You'll visit the Grand Canyon Bryce Canyon Zion and more. See all the items up for bid at auction dot WGBH Donna we're. Joined by O'Donovan every Saturday at 3:00 for a session. Well just like that on a Celtic sojourn here on eighty nine point seven. WGBH. Sue O'Connell in for Kelly Krause Lee this is the Kelly Krause Lee show this week the

Brimfield antique and collectible show is in Brimfield mass. Lots of folks making their way out there for those of you who have never been to it it's such a draw that the town's population swells over 10 times its native size Joining us to give us the lowdown on the granddaddy of antiques fair is Zac Bissonnette. Zach is a contributing editor at antique trader's Zack Welcome to the Calla Crossley Show. Great to be here. You know I was thrilled to be reading some of your stuff and about stuff and loved your basic rule that most people think things they're things are worth more than there they are and then they have that rare thing that they think is has no value and it's worth a lot. It's one of that's exactly what a dealer told me at Brimfield yesterday is that the stuff that you would think would sell for a lot right now is not selling the stuff that you would think would be almost worthless selling really well. One of the hottest items at Brimfield this week believe it or not is fans like electric fans from the 1950s and 60s.

Everyone I saw yesterday either had a sold tag on it or was being carried around by someone or was haggling over you know the price with the dealer on the other side. Great American furniture the sort of heirloom furniture the antique stuff that you know you think is great that great wood stuff is not selling at all. What's so other than fans is that the whole industrial kind of mechanical. That's exactly right it's the sort of mid-century modern furniture slash the really heavy duty industrial stuff shelves from like factories and that kind of thing are really hot right now people are repurposed in them and using them as bookcases in their homes. And it goes really well with the sort of open floor plan that people are into now whereas the sort of cozy or look I think is maybe out a little bit. You know what Zach I recently sold my house and decided to just cleanse myself of all the dead people stuff that I had I sort of ended up with people I barely knew I had a box of their stuff and I had my big yard sale and I

have to say that I was I really think the hoarder shows have really done a disservice to yard sales everywhere because there was junk I was sure I was going to sell which I ended up not being able to sell. And there were some things that people really really were into and one of them. Which I then later did some investigation on the world clearing house called e-bay with the collectible dishes and plates which there seems to be a glut on the market but people still seem to care about that. The bone china real stuff rather than the Franklin Mint certificate stuff. Exactly no really good rule of thumb with antiques and collectibles is that anything that people thought was going to be collectible when it was being manufactured is virtually guaranteed to be worthless. And you've seen this happen baseball cards you know my dad still has his baseball cards from the 1950s and they're worth a lot of money. The cards that you know I bought when I was a kid in the 90s are virtually worthless and that's because by then

the cards in the fifties were only worth a lot of money and everyone was like oh you know these cars are going to war so much and now they're not worth the cardboard they're printed on and it's the same thing with the collectible plates that stuff was marketed heavily with the sort of implicit message that it was going to appreciate in value and that virtually guaranteed that it didn't. The other the other challenge I think folks have is exactly how well-kept things need to be in order for them to have value that if you have a first edition something and it actually does have some market value you're competing against other pieces which are in pristine condition. And that really if you have something you think you want to keep for an emotional value sentimental value or financial value you really have to put the effort into keeping it safe and clean and new. That's exactly what one auctioneer told me a few years ago that the first rule of antiques is condition condition condition condition times three. And I think condition has actually become more important in recent years and it used to be because of e-bay were as you said you

are competing with so many more items in your category you know 20 years ago or 10 years ago even if you had something in a flea market and someone saw it there was a good chance that they weren't going to see it again for a long time. And if they wanted it they were maybe willing to compromise on condition. Now if you have an old copy of a book that's a first edition. Assuming something incredibly rare they're going to be able to find another copy on e-bay and your copy needs to be in really good condition. You know during the whole royal wedding I don't know if you knew this but there was a wedding a couple weeks ago that some royalty got married and there were lots of things for sale with their faces on them. And I really tried to have a sort of blackout rule because I wanted to see the wedding but I really didn't care about the whole hoopla but I did watch one segment where they went to these collector's homes in Great Britain who had collected all of this Chachi stuff over the years. Every wedding and fans and faces and water bottles and they had one woman who was actually of royal lineage and she had Diana's dresses. She was the only one who didn't want to sell anything and she

was the one who actually had the valuable stuff. But these these other people just just love the collection and had a house full of it. And I'm just I was just overwhelmed by it. All so that someone would collect all this. And there's a market for it though in a small a small level you know the world weddings of so I've actually spent some time whatever else care with what I was you know wondering whether old royal wedding stuff has held its value. And it really hasn't for the most part you know a few postcards and all the stuff that came out from those I think hasn't. And the reason is that the people who bought it kept it. Everyone who wanted it bought it when it came out. And there really hasn't been an increase in the number of people who want the stuff a really good example of that is newspapers from historical events are virtually worthless because everyone save their newspaper the day of the moon landing. But it is fun I mean and this is the lesson that I learned going through my own stuff and my mother who is a great collector I mean I've got more Franklin Mint plates and I know what to do with. But you know it

is fun to go through it and I have decided that I am neither going to invest in keeping it clean and nice but I do like opening the box once every four years and looking at the papers and that gives me joy and that's priceless. Priceless I mean that's yeah that's the whole point you know the first time I drove by Brimfield is during the set up stage of it and I was astounded that this existed within my state of Massachusetts and I had no idea it was sort of like this you know this launching of a major attack during World War Two. And I don't know which the road is that drives right through it but just the cars and the tables and the parking and this you know this was a good week before the date of the opening. Talk a little bit for our listeners who may never have been to Brimfield what what it is what it looks like what what is it like a little town. You know I know it's a little town but is it like a city suddenly it's a little town that turns into like a tent city for one week. Three times per year. And you know

Brimfield started in 1059 when this guy Gordon Reed and his wife invited all their friends from New England to come to this flea market that they were holding and Brimfield. And you know he reminisced about it later and he said you know people thought they were crazy and they just went as a favor to them. But it started to grow slowly and then actually the biggest growth in Broomfield was when Gordon Reed died in 1974. A family feud sort of erupted in his daughters actually opened up a competing flea market right down the road. And lo and behold that lot filled up too. And you know everyone did better because they were that much more stuff. And so now they're actually 21 different flea markets in Brimfield. They're sort of combined into one so it feels like one flea market it's actually 21 separate ones and now there's you know about 5000 dealers. Even we now we were saying in the open as well that the population of Brimfield is about 3500. And during the antique show 50000 people are in Broomfield. And it adds to a high level of excitement because you have

professionals there you know professional traders and buyers of hobbyists who take it as their life and folks just come in for the sights and smells and fun of it all. I mean it's amazing to me that there are more car accidents. I mean that was what struck me when I was driving through is that you know you'd think there'd be like bodies piling up from all this is so much more traffic than you would normally expect in a town like Brimfield. You know let's go through some of the other other things on your short list that that really folks are hanging on to and you have a great suggestion about what to do with it. You know vintage encyclopedias now the poor encyclopedia has really just become a thing of the past it's one of those wonderful things that schoolchildren now point to go What's that you know and that that can't be all the knowledge of the world when the Internet is endless. Folks are have these up in their attics they have them in the basement. Are they worth anything that they're worth nothing literally nothing. And the biggest problem with them is that they're heavy. So even if you could find someone who wanted

the cost of shipping that would be substantially more than they're worth. I mean you literally can't give these away. Now one of the recommendations that you have about using some of the stuff that you know you've hung on to and you've now paid for storage or you've moved it several times is that you can really make some great home decorations and I actually saw a friend who took encyclopedias and had them you know glued together so that she could make with just some simple plywood and paint in the old encyclopedias a bookcase. That's brilliant and I mean that's the fantastic thing is that there's you know two sides to everything. On the one hand it would be great if the stuff was worth a lot of money and we could all get rich selling our old Wheaties boxes. But you know I mean yeah you're right these are fantastic decorative items a lot of the old bibles are a great example if you're into that I mean you can line a bookcase with 19th century Bibles in there worth you know 50 cents each. What makes something collectible I mean it's sort of interesting about the fans you know I think there's probably a bunch of folks listening right now who just cleared out those those you know

propeller looking fans with with the tubes that are so very people one. Yeah I mean sure land Disney World right now but what what makes something collectible what makes it worth something. You know I think you really it really starts with two things One is that the biggest driver of antiques generally is actually home decor trends. The stuff that people want in their house goes up in value stuff that they don't doesn't and the whole vintage modern look you know for instance right now the show Mad Men. I think they just did an auction where they sold for charity some of the furniture from that set and it raised a ton of money. And I think that you know that show has driven an interest in sort of a mid century modern slash industrial look in people's homes. And so that's a big part of it is what's driving the home décor transfer another really think important thing to remember that one dealer Temi confidential told me is that if everyone saved everything nothing would be worth anything. And you know that's the great thing you know people will say oh I had tons of those and I threw them out I wish I'd say the most. Yeah they're worth a lot because you threw them out.

Well and that's how it works so what I would say is you know looking for sort of items from everyday life that sort of ring people's bells you know my mother probably spends four hours per day looking at old 900 50s television lamps on e-bay because that's what she remembers from growing up with her you know in her grandmother's house and that kind of thing so. Mr. Alger and home decor trends I think are really the big drivers and getting stuff that people didn't save in mass quantity. Right I'm speaking with Zac Bissonnette he is the contributing editor for antique trader. You're listening to the Kelly Crossley Show here on WGBH I'm Sue O'Connell. You know one of the things that I love about the Internet is that I am able to hate haggle anonymously. I hate. Going in to a store or a vendor and trying to get even though I know that they're there with a price that's higher trying to get them to come down a little bit so I love the whole price line dock cause you know that I can bid anonymously and not get anyone upset with me. But

like I said I know they're there and I know that that's part of the whole scene. How do you hey how do you know when to haggle How do you know what the price point is and you know here's the thing with Brimfield because it attracts so many tourists and so many sort of designers from New York who are you know I think Ralph Lauren for ships their stores there for some of their displays and that kind of thing. The markups are very very high to sort of you know I say that they price stuff with the highest price that they can get out without laughing. And so you really do have to be prepared to haggle if you're going to go to Brimfield and you know there's I sort of enjoy it I kind of enjoy the sort of Darwinian struggle for supremacy of trying to get a good deal on an old magazine. But one thing that no one sort of loci way to do it is to just hold something up and say to the dealer What's your best price on this. That'll usually knock off at least 10 20 percent of the price especially at Brimfield because the markets are so high. So that's a really low key low key way of doing it. Another way to do it is to try to bundle together you know if you see a bunch of stuff that you like from one dealer you know you'll get a bulk discount by buying a few

things. And you know another thing that works really well is picking it up and they say the price just kind of put it down again. That always gets them to say well I can do a better you know so it's a game thing. I enjoy it. But it's if you're going to go to Brimfield you have to be prepared to haggle. You know one of the things on your list too is the vintage weedy boxes which you just mentioned. And you know I had a friend growing up who collected the TV Guide covers you know at the time always these great TV stars and happenings and eventually what she did was she figured out how to wallpaper her room with them because she figured out that they weren't really going to be worth a while one of these major magazines in the country which everyone gets delivered to their home and she used spray starch tore off the covers and was able to wallpaper it. No real big expense and I mean a great thing to do that with is you can get vintage sheet music from like the nine hundred twenty one thousand 50s. You know like Frank Sinatra and Judy Garland on the cover for you know price 50 cents per piece. I

mean the stuff you know is so mass produced so many people saved it and it's fantastic. Yeah I mean if you can find a way to wallpaper with old ephemera it's a really really good thing to do liquid starch like that is actually right on the meat. OK so Zach what's next what do we have in our attics in our garages or what are we going to look for at Brimfield to hold onto because in the next five years it's going to be the next hot commodity. You know what everybody already talked about I think at least eight dealers told me this is that the industrial stuff of the mid century modern the sort of. Harder kind of grittier furniture is really really hot and most people think it's getting hotter. Yep so we're just going to keep with that we're going to keep it so the 150 days sort of style the really the heavy metal. You know I mean I'm always amazed when I go shopping at some of the lighter stores you go to pick up something and you think it's going to weigh 20 pounds and it weighs 10 ounces you know it's an amazing thing.

And I think I think that's what people want is that you know people miss having that sort of hard heavy furniture right and you'll be on Brimfield you're doing it. Are you doing it. It has been fun I'm going tomorrow. OK good we'll look for you there thanks so much for joining us. Thanks so much. We've been talking about the Brimfield antiques and collectibles show. That was actress Annette He's a contributing editor at antique trader he's also been a contributing finance writer for The Daily Beast AOL money and finance and Wall of pop dot com. You can keep on top of the Kelly Crossley Show at WGBH dot org slash Calley Crosley. Please follow us on Twitter or become a fan of the fat Kelly Crosley show on the Facebook. I'm Sue O'Connell in for Geli Crossley I'll be back next week. We're a production of WGBH radio.